- Mailman-users - lists.mailman3.org

Time Stand Still
by Barry Warsaw 23 Nov '17

23 Nov '17

Somewhen in the dark recesses of intarweb history, I found myself as the project leader for both Jython (née JPython) and GNU Mailman. I'd been involved with Jython since it was invented by Jim Hugunin around the time he came to work with us at Pythonlabs. I'd been contributing to Mailman since we inherited John Viega's Python-based Dave Matthews Band list server, and put it to use replacing python.org's Majordomo installation. I'd enjoyed both projects, but knew I could not lead both, so I had to make a choice. I chose to turn over Jython to a team that's done a much better job over the years than I ever could have. Something about email, and especially the communication and collaboration patterns that it facilitates, really fascinated me. I know, I know, but we all have our lapses of sanity. Mine has lasted almost 20 years, a bit more than "momentary" perhaps. I've rarely gotten paid to work on Mailman, but it did provide me some great opportunities. Most notably it led to my 10 year stint at Canonical. I was originally hired on there to integrate mailing lists with Launchpad, and Mailman was the obvious choice. I learned a ton doing that project, and working within the constraints of integrating the two Python-based systems, especially since Launchpad was originally not free software and Mailman was GPL'd. Later, the Zope-based Launchpad source code was released under the AGPL, making much of the monkeypatching unnecessary, but by then the system was solid and reliable, and you don't fix what's not broken. Except, I guess I did. I took a lot of the lessons from that work, along with a good hard look at all the problems with Mailman 2, and began to break another cardinal rule of software development: second system syndrome. The result is Mailman 3. It took forever, and we're still not at complete feature parity with Mailman 2, but at least it's Real Enough to be used at many Real Sites, including python.org and lists.fedoraprojects.org. It would be ridiculous for me to take significant credit for this. I have to acknowledge the amazing user community -- you! -- for all the support, patches, suggestions, feedback, patience, criticism, donations, and contributions that you've given to the project, and to me personally over the years. And my deepest gratitude goes to all the core developers that have stayed or come and gone, but most especially the current Cabal: Abhilash Raj, Aurelien Bompard, Florian Fuchs, Mark Sapiro, Stephen J. Turnbull, Terri Oda. You should know that each and every one of them is truly awesome, both in what they contribute technically, and in their amazing friendships. Mailman is infinitely better because of their involvement, and I've loved spending time with them over the years at the Pycon sprints, making releases and sharing teas and meals. My blog is called We Fear Change, and that's humorously taken from a 90's bit in Mike Myer's excellent Wayne's World movie (a phrase actually uttered by the brilliant Dana Carvey as Garth). The irony of course is that while we all may fear change, it's the one constant thing we can count on. And in fact, we *require* change to thrive, because if you aren't changing, you aren't alive. Time, and being engaged with life's vagaries, means there's no alternative to change; it must be embraced. And so, with a vague reference to the many (good!) changes in my personal and professional life, I'm announcing that I'm stepping down from the project leadership role of GNU Mailman, effective... nowish! And it's with unanimous agreement among the GNU Mailman Steering Committee (a.k.a. the Mailman Cabal), that we are announcing Abhilash Raj as the new project leader. If you don't recognize Abhilash's name, you probably aren't paying attention, at least to Mailman 3. Abhilash came to us in 2013 as a Google Summer of Code student, and he's become one of the project's most valuable contributors. His list of accomplishments is long, and it includes everything from redesigning the website, to integrating CI with our GitLab build system, porting our code to the SQLAlchemy ORM, adding MySQL support, revving up adoption through his Docker images, along with his great coding work on Core, Postorius, HyperKitty, and mailmanclient. This transition is good for the project too. Email, its defining protocols and standards, and its role in our daily lives, has changed profoundly since the early days of Mailman. A fresh perspective and enthusiasm will help keep Mailman relevant to the changing ways we -- especially the FLOSS and tech communities -- communicate. Please join me in supporting Abhilash in every way possible as he takes over in this new role as project leader. I'll be here when and if needed, even as I create space in my "spare" time for... Something Else. I look forward to the vision that Abhilash will bring to the project, and I know that he will do a great job. To me, Mailman has always been about collaboration, and the best way for it to succeed is for you to continue to contribute your insights, experiences, opinions, and skills with positive intention. -Barry https://www.wefearchange.org/

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Starting new thread in Postorius -> disappears
by Thor Atle Rustad 22 Nov '17

22 Nov '17

I have had this working before, so I guess it's a simple setup error. When I send a message from the Postorius interface, it is neither sent out or stored. I briefly see this message: "Your reply has been sent and is being processed.", and then nothing happens. I have installed maxking's docker-mailman and copied my old setup with basic stuff like passwords and such. The only new thing is that I'm now running in userspace by putting in /etc/subuid and subguid: mailman:10000:65536 and in /etc/docker/daemon.json: { "userns-remap": "mailman" } So I get the following ownership in /opt/mailman: drwxrwsr-x 3 10100 10000 4096 nov. 21 09:00 core drwx------ 19 10070 10000 4096 nov. 21 09:27 database drwxr-sr-x 5 10100 10101 4096 nov. 21 09:24 web (I have created a user named mailman with uid 10100 so, in reality, it says "mailman" there instead of 10100 but I guess that is irrelevant here)

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Mailman Core 3.1.1 and Postorius 1.1.1 released
by Abhilash Raj 19 Nov '17

19 Nov '17

Hello Everyone, I am pleased to announce the release of Mailman Core 3.1.1 and Postorius 1.1.1. Python 2.7 is the only supported version for Postorius 1.1.1 and Python 3.5-3.6 are supported for Mailman Core 3.1.1. Both of these are bugfix releases and include some improvements. For a full list of changes, please see [1] for Core and [2] for Postorius. [1]: http://mailman.rtfd.io/en/release-3.1/src/mailman/docs/NEWS.html [2]: http://docs.mailman3.org/projects/postorius/en/latest/news.html For more information about GNU Mailman, please see our wesbite at one of the following: http://www.list.org https://www.gnu.org/software/mailman http://mailman.sourceforge.net/ https://mirror.list.org/ Documentation for Mailman 3 is available at: http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/ Both of these can be downloaded from PyPI. https://pypi.org/project/mailman/ https://pypi.org/project/postorius/ thanks, Abhilash Raj

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Which crontab?
by Pierre Abbat 15 Nov '17

15 Nov '17

According to http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-core.html, I have to add "@daily mailman digests --send" to the crontab. Which crontab does it go in? In the system crontab, the thing after the time is the username, and there's no user named "mailman" in /etc/passwd. Or should I put a script in / etc/cron.daily/? Pierre -- loi mintu se ckaji danlu cu jmaji

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Rolling releases for Container Images and Funding Campaign for Mailman
by Abhilash Raj 14 Nov '17

14 Nov '17

Hi Everyone, As you all know I have been working on container images for Mailman 3. We now have a new "rolling" tag for both mailman-core and mailman-web images. These images have latest source installed for every Mailman component. You can find more information about them on the website [3]. New images are available on quay.io and, moving forward, the rest of the image builds will also be moved to Quay[4][5]. These images are built using git-heads *only* if they are passing our test suite and are re-generated weekly. You should be aware that while all these components are tested with their individual test suites, their combination might sometimes not be stable. This will get you updates/bug-fixes much faster :) As most of you already know, Mailman 3 is the new and improved version with extra features, better security and much better architecture. We released Mailman Suite 3.0 in April 2015 and have come a long ways since then. Mailman Suite 3.1, release May 2016, was aimed to provide feature-parity with Mailman 2.x series and we think we _almost_ hit that goal. Apart from no monthly password reminders, Mailman 3 has a much better Administrator/User interface, REST API for scripting, a really awesome archiver, support for multiple domains, support for external plugins, support for SSO/social login and so much more! I love working on Mailman and would enjoy being able to do so full time for next 6-8 weeks. Mailman 3 is not very far from becoming the default version everyone would use, but it still needs some work to get there. I need help from you, the users of Mailman, to get us there. If you or your organization would like to move to (or, already moved to) Mailman 3, I urge you to donate[1] to us. There are options to donate using Credit Card, Paypal, Bitcoin, Wire Transfer (of any currency), Check and money order. If this campaign succeeds, here is a road map of what I intend to get done: - Move Django apps(UI/Archiver) to Python 3 (or bilingual) - Fork `mailman import` command to provide an upgrade path to Mailman 3.x from Mailman 2.x - Fix MySQL compatibility in Core - Changes in Postorius: - Add support for missing options that are already exposed in Core’s API - e.g. Support for setting templates - Find the commonly used options that are not exposed in Core, add them to Core's API and add to Postorius - Add Admin Dashboard project from GSoC 2014 (maybe?) - Add better testing of container images and provide deployment instructions for Kubernetes & Docker Swarm - Improve the container images to work with new micro-services architecture, to achieve scaling and redundancy in services. - Administrator/User documentation for Postorius & Mailman - (optional) Fork [mmcli](https://github.com/rajeevs1992/mailmancli) project from Rajeev, fix if there is anything missing and add it as an additional command line tool to work with Mailman Core. Maybe pull it under Mailman umbrella. Except for these, if there is something more important that is preventing the adoption of Mailman 3 from your end, we can discuss them. I'd like to mention that I have been working on Mailman 3 for quite some time now and I intend to implement every single item on the list. You donations would help it get done much sooner, hopefully in time for 3.2 release schedule (at PyCon US 2018). You can follow the progress of this campaign here[2]. [1]: https://my.fsf.org/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&id=22 [2]: https://wiki.list.org/x/17892025 [3]: https://asynchronous.in/docker-mailman/#rolling-releases [4]: https://quay.io/repository/maxking/mailman-web [5]: https://quay.io/repository/maxking/mailman-core -- Abhilash Raj maxking(a)asynchronous.in

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Django 2.0 (and newer) requires Python 3; how about archiver and list handler Django apps?
by ddw David Wilson 13 Nov '17

13 Nov '17

Hi all; LTS Django version 1.11, the last supporting Python 2.7, was released earlier this year. I noticed that in December 2017, Django version 2.0 will be released, which apparently will require Python 3.X Taken from the Django web site, 'We recommend using the latest version of Python 3. The last version to support Python 2.7 is Django 1.11 LTS.' Given that the utilities to archive and also handle email lists are both Django applications, which apparently have *not* yet been updated to Python 3, if I understand correctly? *This leads me to wonder if this presents a problem moving forward and staying compatible with the current versions of Django (in addition to Mailman 3.0)?* Many thanks in advance for any light you can shed in this area. Best regards. Dave Wilson

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Re: integrating mm3 with postfix / lmtp
by Mark Sapiro 13 Nov '17

13 Nov '17

On 10/25/2017 05:41 PM, Fabian A. Santiago wrote: > > No to the domains part and I think virtual alias maps is needed: > > mail postfix/trivial-rewrite[19445]: warning: do not list domain xxx in BOTH virtual_mailbox_domains and relay_domains > Oct 25 20:39:19 mail postfix/trivial-rewrite[19445]: warning: do not list domain xxx in BOTH virtual_mailbox_domains and relay_domains > Oct 25 20:39:19 mail postfix/submission/smtpd[19441]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from pool-108-53-239-102.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net[108.53.239.102]: 550 5.1.1 <test123@xxx>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table; from=<fsantiago@xxx> to=<test123@xxx> proto=ESMTP helo=<[10.0.0.29]> (above slightly sanitized for return to the list) The issue here is your list domain cannot be a virtual_mailbox_domain or a virtual_alias_domain. I have the same issue on mail.python.org where we have both Mailman 2 and Mailman 3 lists @python.org. and python.org is a virtual_alias_domain. I have a group of MRs for a branch that implements "alias_domains" to deal with this. Basically it works by creating another (virtual_alias_maps) postfix_vmap mapping to map list addresses @python.org to addresses @x.python.org. Then the postfix_domains and postfix_lmtp maps have the x.python.org domain and there is a patch to mailman/runners/lmtp.py to map the x.python.org domain back to python.org. The various MRs are <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/merge_requests/202> for the core, <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailmanclient/merge_requests/18> for the REST bindings used by Postorius and <https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/merge_requests/186> to be able to set an alias_domain via Postorius. That's not all implemented at mail.python.org. What's there is the basic Postfix config, a bash script the generate the new mappings from the old and a simple patch to mailman/runners/lmtp.py. So, the bottom line is it can be done and it's in process, but it won't really be supported until Mailman 3.2. In the mean time, you just need to have a separate domain for your lists that isn't a virtual_*_domain. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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HyperKitty: discussions not updating, misreporting stats
by Cameron Smith 13 Nov '17

13 Nov '17

These are a couple of HyperKitty issues that I have talked about in August [1]. I’ve been doing a bit more experimentation in the last few days and am reporting my findings. The two issues are: — Missing messages: HyperKitty doesn’t show all of the messages in a discussion - Misreporting of discussion statistics: HyperKitty doesn’t update the number of participants and comments in a discussion I’m using the latest Docker setup. Neither of these issues are solved by updating or rebuilding indexes: sudo docker exec mailman-web ./manage.py update_index sudo docker exec mailman-web ./manage.py rebuild_index However, if I stop and then restart the containers (sudo docker-compose down; sudo docker-compose up -d), the discussion statistics are updated and properly display the number of participants and comments in all discussions. This does not, however, solve the problem of missing messages. I have discovered two methods of displaying the missing discussion messages: add a new message to the thread in HyperKitty; I’m not convinced that this works *every* time, but it at least works *most* times run the yearly cron job; this seems to work *every* time: sudo docker exec mailman-web ./manage.py runjobs yearly [1]: https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/… https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/… Cameron Smith

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Bounces
by David Krantz 07 Nov '17

07 Nov '17

Hi. How do I config mailman 3.1x to send any unrecognized bounces to e.g. the list owner? Now they just end up in the bounces table but I would like to see the entire message in this case. Cheers // David

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LDAP/Krb5/SAML auth for Mailman
by Dmitry Makovey 07 Nov '17

07 Nov '17

Can anyone share some information on LDAP/Krb5 or better yet SAML auth implementation for Mailman. Is it just adding appropriate auth module to DJango project or is there more involved things? -- Sr System and DevOps Engineer SoM IRT

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