- Mailman-users - lists.mailman3.org

Migrating from old V2 server to new V3 server. Questions.
by jkoral＠luc.edu 14 Nov '24

14 Nov '24

We have figured out how to migrate from one server to another, but after removing the list from the old server, the e-mails are still trying to go there. Is there something that needs to be done in mailman so that the e-mail list will hit the new server instead? Does it just take time? Thank you, Joe Koral

2 26

Show list history
by pau.baiges＠csuc.cat 14 Nov '24

14 Nov '24

Hi, is there a way to know the history of a specific list, such as the changes that have been made over time? We want to see the history of members who have been added or removed. I can only see the mailman logs from the last 5-6 days Thank you

2 1

Installation Questions [Installation}
by Arte Chambers 14 Nov '24

14 Nov '24

Hello everyone, I'm running Ubuntu 24.10 and following the Virtualenv instructions <https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html#setup-mailman-u…>. When creating the mailman user per the instructions I find that the mailman user doesn't have sufficient permissions to do things later in the installation such as creating files in /etc. What steps should I take to ensure that the mailman user has the correct permissions to install the Mailman app. Thank you, Arte Chambers

5 11

Problems getting started with postorius
by Alain D D Williams 14 Nov '24

14 Nov '24

I am having another go with mailman3, being a long time MM2 user, but am getting increasingly frustrated. I am using on Debian 12 (Bookworm) and have installed the various Debian packages - mailman3-full does that. I have successfully started the mailman3 and mailman3-web services. I went to: http://localhost/mailman3/postorius/domains/new/ 'Add a new domain' I enter a 'Mail Host' -- a domain that does exist on this machine I choose a Web host from the drop down list -- same as Mail Host I click on 'Create Domain' and the page refreshes with the same information but under the Mail Host I see in red: {"title": "500 Internal Server Error"} I eventually tracked it down. The problem was that I had signed in with an account "addw@localhost". That, for some reason, failed validation above. I hacked the database and changed to "addw(a)localhost.localdomain" and creating the new domain worked. I could send email to addw@localhost - so at the MTA level it is correct. So please can the initial account creation do the same validation as does adding a new domain. I have looked but cannot find any documentation on postorius than https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/postorius/en/latest/ which is not helpful for a user or system admin. Can you point me to something better. Regards -- Alain Williams Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer. +44 (0) 787 668 0256 https://www.phcomp.co.uk/ Parliament Hill Computers. Registration Information: https://www.phcomp.co.uk/Contact.html #include <std_disclaimer.h>

2 1

Postorius List members
by Alain D D Williams 14 Nov '24

14 Nov '24

I have a test list with a few members. For each member it is showing me: Address, Delivery mode, Moderation action, bounce score. It is NOT showing Delivery status (Enabled, Disabled, Disabled by owner, ...). The only way of seeing this is by clicking on the email address (Subscription options). Is it possible to add delivery status to the summary where many users are shown ? I find this (on mailman 2) to be very useful, ie get a quick overview of what is happening to users. Regards -- Alain Williams Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer. +44 (0) 787 668 0256 https://www.phcomp.co.uk/ Parliament Hill Computers. Registration Information: https://www.phcomp.co.uk/Contact.html #include <std_disclaimer.h>

2 2

No e-mail distribution after import of archive
by Markus Grandpré 13 Nov '24

13 Nov '24

Dear Mr. Sapiro, on our test system we noticed the problem that after importing a mailing list archive from a Mailman system v2.1 into a Mailman system v3.3.8, e-mails are no longer distributed via this mailing list. E-mails that are written to the list find their way into the archive, but they are not sent to any member of the list. Before the archive was imported, writing an e-mail to the list and distributing this e-mail via the list was not a problem. Unfortunately, we cannot find any indication of this issue in the log of the mailman system v3.3.8. Please help us to further analyze and solve this problem, as we are planning to import 188 archives into our new productive mailman system v3.3.8 during the next months. With kind regards, Markus Grandpré -- Markus Ludwig Grandpré Universität Konstanz Kommunikations-, Informations-, Medienzentrum (KIM) Abteilung IT-Dienste Forschung und Lehre, B803, Tel: ++49 7531 88 4342

3 7

Changes in Django admin interface are not syncing to postorius gui /database
by ulf.rapphahn＠offis.de 12 Nov '24

12 Nov '24

Hello, I have the lasted version of mailman3 in an fresh venv installation and I am testing it for our upcoming migration from v2.1. When I add a new list in the django admin interface this list will never appear in postorius (vice versa it works). The new list is also not in both databases: SELECT * FROM mailman.mailinglist; SELECT * FROM mailmanweb.hyperkitty_mailinglist; (Why two databases are needed with redundant data?) The same when changing for example the description of an existing list in the django admin interface it doesn't change the description of the list in postorius. Vice versa it works. Changes made in postorius are also seen in django. Could please someone help me or explain this behavior? I hope it is a problem with my configuration. Thank you and regards, Ulf

4 7

Maximum recipients in an email.
by b.dirk＠gmx.de 12 Nov '24

12 Nov '24

Hello, where can I configure the maximum recipients in an email in mailman3? In my postfix configuration is set a limit "smtpd_recipient_limit = 200" and in the mailman3 smtp.log i will get a error message like "failed with code 452, b'4.5.3 Error: too many recipients'". Mailman3 repeats the delivery for these addresses, but i would like to configure correctly. The delivery of mails is then faster. Thanks. Best regards, Dirk

2 1

Add member to a list by email
by b.dirk＠gmx.de 12 Nov '24

12 Nov '24

Hello, I'm trying to add members by email with the following content. Recipient: testlist-request(a)xxxxxxxx.de Email content: join address=max.mustermann(a)xxxxxxxx.de After I've sent this email, it still has to be confirmed in the Postorius web interface under member requests. How can I confirm membership by email, or deactivate this confirmation for moderators? Thanks. Best regards, Dirk

2 1

Bulk delivery status change?
by Stephen Daniel 11 Nov '24

11 Nov '24

Mistakes were made, and for while every single outbound email bounced. I've fixed the mistakes, but now in my largest and most active email list, every single user's delivery status is "Disabled by Bounces". Is there a way to bulk fix this? Or do I have to go into each user, one at a time, and fix them? Thanks! -- Steve

3 7

Postorius not HTML-decoding < to "<" characters
by Ron / BCLUG 10 Nov '24

10 Nov '24

Andy Smith wrote on 2024-10-30 20:59: > # Block access to the signup form from Tor exit nodes. > <Location /mailman/accounts/signup> > <RequireAll> > Require all granted > Include /etc/apache2/tor-exit-list.conf > </RequireAll> > </Location> If we look at the above message, there are less-than and greater-than symbols around the Apache keywords in the email as expected. If we look at the archived version of the message, we see a slightly mangled representation: # Block access to the signup form from Tor exit nodes. <Location /mailman/accounts/signup> <RequireAll> Require all granted Include /etc/apache2/tor-exit-list.conf </RequireAll> </Location> https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… Hopefully I've assigned the blame to Postorius accurately and no formatting nor archiving issues make the issue difficult to understand. Thanks.

3 5

Create an eml command in a plugin
by antoine.depoisier＠ikmail.com 09 Nov '24

09 Nov '24

I try to create an EML command to allow moderators to accept a subscription request made by an address. I created this command in CLI first, to test if it works, and it works well except to send the welcome message. After that, I tried to create the EML command in my plugin, and when I'm testing this command, nothing happens. Also, when using the command EML help, my command is not shown on the email sent. Maybe I missed something to add in the configurations files. Should I add some configuration files for this command ? Here are the working tree command_eml_addmember_mailman_plugin __init__.py commands __init__.py eml_accept.py cli_test_accept.py

2 1

Postorius admin/user guide
by Florin Pasăre 08 Nov '24

08 Nov '24

Hello, We're trying to update mailman to version 3 from version 2, and I can't seem to find some non-technical guide for Postorius, something like an owners manual for all the configurations available in Postorius. Is there such a thing? Thank you, Florin

3 2

Members (and moderators) can't view the list of members.
by mrl＠psfc.mit.edu 07 Nov '24

07 Nov '24

I installed Mailman 3 almost 2 years ago. I only now noticed that members of a mailing list can't view the list of members. Even moderators can't see the list. Only Owners. The error message is "You do not have permissions to visit this page." Mailman Core Version GNU Mailman 3.3.8 (Tom Sawyer) Mailman Core API Version 3.1 Mailman Core Python Version 3.10.12 (main, Jun 11 2023, 05:26:28) [GCC 11.4.0] Postorius Version 1.3.8 Any ideas? I did make a few "minor" changes to the code, but hopefully it didn't cause this problem. What file(s) contains the code that checks for permissions? Or maybe there is a config file? I also notice by default, for all users, in their "Global Mailman Preferences", the default setting for "Hide Address" is "Yes". How can I change that to be "No". And can I reset that setting for all my present users? Thanks. - Mark

2 1

How to keep virtualenv install secure?
by Lichtinger, Bernhard 07 Nov '24

07 Nov '24

Hi, I am looking for some advice: If we use the virtualenv install method, how does one keep track of security updates for all the installed dependencies? I can think of: - Upgrade regularly all installed packages inside the virtualenv. This might break mailman3 if there are incompatible updates. - Try to track all dependencies and check if there are security updates published. This might be impossible to achieve. - Security updates are so rare, we do not need to bother. ;) Thanks, Bernhard

3 2

Abusive user creation - ideas for mitigating
by Andy Smith 07 Nov '24

07 Nov '24

Hi, My mailman3.auth_users table contains 131 rows, of which 113 of them were created in the last week. All of these users have a 10 character long random string of lowercase letters as their chosen username. Their email addresses are all over the place. I only noticed this was happening because an unusual number of the subscription confirmation messages were bouncing back to me as postmaster, and I saw the unlikely user names. I matched up some of the date_joined timings with logs of HTTP POST to /mailman/accounts/signup and every single one so far was a unique IP address. So I am not going to get very far with firewalling. Does anyone have any suggestions what I can do to avoid this? Specifically what I would like to avoid is sending a confirmation email to these potentially innocent addresses. … Hmm, actually I've just noticed that all of them are Tor exit nodes. Looks like I could probably autogenerate an Apache ACL that lists all Tor exit nodes and bans them from posting to /mailman/accounts/signup. Thanks, Andy

2 3

Backup and restore a single list
by sherin＠raidm.com 06 Nov '24

06 Nov '24

Hello, I am new to mailman3 . I am looking for the procedure to backup and restore a single mailing list from mailman3. If any one know the procedure or the documentation , please point me

3 7

Where to find disabled members?
by Bill Oliver 05 Nov '24

05 Nov '24

Now that I have mailman running smoothly, I'm having to deal with a few other issues. When I changed vendors for my vps, my vendor gave me a static IP address that was apparently run by Satan himself. The ip address is -- or was -- on a number of blacklists. I have spent the past couple of weeks going through various appeals processes to get whitelisted, and I think I'm in good shape. In the meantime, a fair number of subscribers have been disabled. When I look at Postorius -> Settings -> Bounce processing, I see all of the policies I can play with, but I don't see how to a) See who is disabled, and b) un-disable them by hand or... do I just have to wait seven days for them to automatically get un-disabled? Thanks! billo

2 2

member appears twice in list - how?
by Jose Bernal 05 Nov '24

05 Nov '24

I've got a list member showing up twice in a list (same email address). Can't use the GUI to remove the member from this list (get a 503 error) Screenshots attached, underlying database query reveals no duplicates. Wondering how this is possible or where else I should be looking to resolve this duplicate before I simply remove their entry from the members table altogether. Thank you, --------------------- José Bernal Web/Application Engineer Cell 541-228-8481 jbernal.web.dev(a)gmail.com ___________________________________________ Mailman's content filtering has removed the following MIME parts from this message. Content-Type: image/png Name: Screen Shot 2024-11-05 at 10.53.55 AM.png Content-Type: image/png Name: Screen Shot 2024-11-05 at 10.59.12 AM.png Replaced multipart/alternative part with first alternative.

2 1

"held for moderation" - alias domain details sought
by Greg Newby 05 Nov '24

05 Nov '24

Hi friends. I've viewed this old thread: https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/… and documentation here: https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/mta.h… (and the Postfix docs it links to). Those documents don't seem to guide my situation, or maybe I just need a more specific example. The problem is that when messages are delivered to the alias domain, they are held for moderation. I.e., mail to the alias domain like testlist(a)domain.tld is held for moderation, but mail from the same subscribed, non-moderated user to testlist(a)lists.domain.tld is posted immediately without moderation. I wonder whether my main domain needs to be @domain.tld and my alias domain needs to be @lists.domain.tld - is that what I should try? Or, am I not setting up the alias domain correctly? Details: I'm writing to ask for advice so that mailman messages to address(a)domain.tld can also be sent to address(a)lists.domain.tld. There are various other non-Mailman addresses (local Unix accounts and aliases) handled by @domain.tld as well as @otherdomain.tld on the same server. I have a running 3.3.10 server (venv, using Postfix and PostgreSQL under Ubuntu 24.04LTS). The configured domain is of the form: lists.domain.tld and it's working ok. I put this in /etc/aliases and it seems to work, to forward messages from testlist(a)domain.tld to testlist(a)lists.domain.tld: testlist: testlist(a)lists.domain.tld I know it works because I see it in MM3's smtp.log and mailman.log, including a line like this in mailman.log: Oct 12 21:12:27 2024 (2560960) HOLD: testlist(a)lists.domain.tld post from gbnewby(a)petascale.org held, message-id=< CANLuyJZd8NNn5rOLe3XUhooG9F33U_7VOQXrS-7Z241koAV_Ww(a)mail.otherdomain.com>: Message has implicit destination And, indeed, the message is held for moderation. In the MM3 configuration panel for Domains ( https://lists.domain.tld/mailman3/domains/), I have put "domain.tld" in the "Alias domain" field. Thanks for any guidance. I appreciated seeing the recent threat about "redirecting -bounces replies" which also addresses alias domains. ~ Greg

3 4

HSTS Missing from HTTPS Server
by jkoral＠luc.edu 05 Nov '24

05 Nov '24

In my configuration, I am using Apache to reverse proxy the requests to a uwsgi. After our security office scanned the server, it was shown that HSTS is missing from the HTTPS server. The instructions say to add some lines to /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/. The only file in there is 000-default.conf that holds the configuration, but the VirtualHost is port 80. I am using an F5 to to automatically redirect port 80 to port 443, but it is still showing this vulnerability. My question is, how can enable the Virtual Host for 443 on the server? Or can that configuration be located somewhere else? Or can I just create a new Virtual Host with the added configuration for mailman? Thanks, Joe Koral

2 1

The dread "relay access denied" error
by Bill Oliver 05 Nov '24

05 Nov '24

I've been trying to avoid asking this question since "relay access denied" problems are usually pretty silly configuration errors that I should pick up. But I've been staring at this for three days and I'm stumped. Once again here's the scenario. I set up mailman3 on Ubuntu 24.04 and it's running without a hitch, particularly now that I added the appropriate archival commands. I decided to create a backup on an older server of mine running Ubuntu 22.04. The setup is almost identical except for domain names. Unfortunately, in the second setup, I'm getting "relay access denied" to senders/recipients outside the host domain. Things go fine to list members on the local machine. Mailman is successfully sending admin mail to mailman(a)bill-oliver.com Mail not using mailman works fine. The domain where everything works is billoblog.com. The domain I'm setting up is bill-oliver.com Here's the error in syslog (mirrored in mail.log) on bill-oliver.com trying to talk to list members oliver(a)billoblog.com and billo(a)billoblog.com:: Nov 1 21:24:52 mail postfix/smtpd[10193]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from 162-144-108-19.bluehost.com[162.144.108.19]: 454 4.7.1 <oliver(a)billoblog.com>: Relay access denied; from=<tradfp-bounces+oliver=billoblog.com(a)bill-oliver.com> to=<oliver(a)billoblog.com> proto=ESMTP helo=<162-144-108- 19.bluehost.com> Nov 1 21:24:52 mail postfix/smtpd[10193]: disconnect from 162-144-108- 19.bluehost.com[162.144.108.19] ehlo=1 mail=2 rcpt=1/2 data=1 rset=1 quit=1 commands=7/8 Nov 1 21:24:52 mail postfix/smtpd[10193]: connect from 162-144-108- 19.bluehost.com[162.144.108.19] Nov 1 21:24:52 mail postfix/smtpd[10193]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from 162-144-108-19.bluehost.com[162.144.108.19]: 454 4.7.1 <billo(a)billoblog.com>: Relay access denied; from=<tradfp-bounces+billo=billoblog.com(a)bill-oliver.com> to=<billo(a)billoblog.com> proto=ESMTP helo=<162-144-108-19.bluehost.com> Nov 1 21:24:52 mail postfix/smtpd[10193]: disconnect from 162-144-108- 19.bluehost.com[162.144.108.19] ehlo=1 mail=1 rcpt=0/1 rset=1 quit=1 commands=4/5 Nov 1 21:25:48 mail dovecot: auth-worker(10954): Debug: conn unix:auth- worker (pid=10903,uid=116): Disconnected: Connection closed (fd=-1) Nov 1 21:25:48 mail dovecot: auth-worker(10954): Debug: mysql(localhost): Connection finished (queries=1, slow queries=0) Nov 1 21:27:28 mail dovecot: auth: Debug: mysql: Connection finished (queries=0, slow queries=0) FYI, 162-144-108-19.bluehost.com is my ip address and bluehost.com is the VPS vendor. I don't know why that pops up, since the domain is bill-oliver.com. I assume it's VPS-related magic. Here are similar errors in /opt/mailman/mm/var/logs/smtp.log: Nov 01 21:22:46 2024 (1573) Available AUTH mechanisms: LOGIN(builtin) PLAIN(builtin) Nov 01 21:22:46 2024 (1573) Peer: ('162.144.108.19', 51476) Nov 01 21:22:46 2024 (1573) ('162.144.108.19', 51476) handling connection Nov 01 21:22:46 2024 (1573) ('162.144.108.19', 51476) >> b'LHLO mail.bill-oliver.com' Nov 01 21:22:46 2024 (1573) ('162.144.108.19', 51476) >> b'MAIL FROM:<billo(a)billoblog.com> SIZE=1486 BODY=8BITMIME' Nov 01 21:22:46 2024 (1573) ('162.144.108.19', 51476) sender: billo(a)billoblog.com Nov 01 21:22:46 2024 (1573) ('162.144.108.19', 51476) >> b'RCPT TO:<tradfp(a)lists.bill-oliver.com>' Nov 01 21:22:46 2024 (1573) ('162.144.108.19', 51476) recip: tradfp(a)lists.bill-oliver.com Nov 01 21:22:46 2024 (1573) ('162.144.108.19', 51476) >> b'DATA' Nov 01 21:22:46 2024 (1573) ('162.144.108.19', 51476) >> b'QUIT' Nov 01 21:22:46 2024 (1573) ('162.144.108.19', 51476) connection lost Nov 01 21:22:46 2024 (1573) ('162.144.108.19', 51476) Connection lost during _handle_client() Nov 01 21:22:48 2024 (1574) <cbacd3866ebdfeeb706993996ba84e67f7db5ad9.camel(a)billoblog.com> recipients refused: {'oliver(a)billoblog.com': (454, b'4.7.1 <oliver(a)billoblog.com>: Relay access denied')} Nov 01 21:22:48 2024 (1574) <cbacd3866ebdfeeb706993996ba84e67f7db5ad9.camel(a)billoblog.com> recipients refused: {'billo(a)billoblog.com': (454, b'4.7.1 <billo(a)billoblog.com>: Relay access denied')} Nov 01 21:22:48 2024 (1574) <cbacd3866ebdfeeb706993996ba84e67f7db5ad9.camel(a)billoblog.com> smtp to tradfp(a)bill-oliver.com for 2 recips, completed in 0.27154111862182617 seconds Nov 01 21:22:48 2024 (1574) <cbacd3866ebdfeeb706993996ba84e67f7db5ad9.camel(a)billoblog.com> post to tradfp(a)bill-oliver.com from billo(a)billoblog.com, 1448 bytes, 2 failures Nov 01 21:22:48 2024 (1574) <cbacd3866ebdfeeb706993996ba84e67f7db5ad9.camel(a)billoblog.com> delivery to oliver(a)billoblog.com failed with code 454, b'4.7.1 <oliver(a)billoblog.com>: Relay access denied' Nov 01 21:22:48 2024 (1574) <cbacd3866ebdfeeb706993996ba84e67f7db5ad9.camel(a)billoblog.com> delivery to billo(a)billoblog.com failed with code 454, b'4.7.1 <billo(a)billoblog.com>: Relay access denied' Nov 01 21:24:11 2024 (1574) <173051065026.1640.13931339026208387550(a)162-144-108-19.bluehost.com> smtp to tradfp(a)bill-oliver.com for 1 recips, completed in 0.24669885635375977 seconds Nov 01 21:24:11 2024 (1574) <173051065026.1640.13931339026208387550(a)162-144-108-19.bluehost.com> post to tradfp(a)bill-oliver.com from tradfp-request(a)bill-oliver.com, 1222 bytes I have gone over my main.cf and master.cf a zillion times. Worse, I've compared them with the same files in the setup that works, and I can't find a significant error) though things are in a slightly different order. I don't know if I'm missing something big or am just a poor proofreader. Any ideas would be appreciated. Here's the obligatory main.cf and master.cf in /etc/postfix. I use dovecot and virtual domains and virtual mailboxex administered using postfixadmin. Here's the main.cf: # See /usr/share/postfix/main.cf.dist for a commented, more complete version # Debian specific: Specifying a file name will cause the first # line of that file to be used as the name. The Debian default # is /etc/mailname. #myorigin = /etc/mailname smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Ubuntu) biff = no # appending .domain is the MUA's job. append_dot_mydomain = no # Uncomment the next line to generate "delayed mail" warnings #delay_warning_time = 4h readme_directory = no # See http://www.postfix.org/COMPATIBILITY_README.html -- default to 3.6 on # fresh installs. compatibility_level = 3.6 #Enable TLS Encryption when Postfix receives incoming emails smtpd_tls_cert_file=/etc/letsencrypt/live/mail.bill- oliver.com/fullchain.pem smtpd_tls_key_file=/etc/letsencrypt/live/mail.bill- oliver.com/privkey.pem smtpd_tls_security_level=may smtpd_tls_loglevel = 1 smtpd_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtpd_scache #Enable TLS Encryption when Postfix sends outgoing emails smtp_tls_CApath=/etc/ssl/certs smtp_tls_security_level = may smtp_tls_loglevel = 1 smtp_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtp_scache transport_maps = hash:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data/postfix_lmtp local_recipient_maps = hash:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data/postfix_lmtp relay_domains = hash:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data/postfix_domains myhostname = mail.bill-oliver.com alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases myorigin = /etc/mailname mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost relayhost = mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104 [::1]/128 mail.bill- oliver.com bill-oliver.com lists.bill-oliver.com virtual_mailbox_limit = 0 mailbox_size_limit = 0 message_size_limit = 0 recipient_delimiter = + inet_interfaces = all inet_protocols = ipv4 #Enforce TLSv1.3 or TLSv1.2 smtpd_tls_mandatory_protocols = !SSLv2, !SSLv3, !TLSv1, !TLSv1.1 smtpd_tls_protocols = !SSLv2, !SSLv3, !TLSv1, !TLSv1.1 smtp_tls_mandatory_protocols = !SSLv2, !SSLv3, !TLSv1, !TLSv1.1 smtp_tls_protocols = !SSLv2, !SSLv3, !TLSv1, !TLSv1.1 mailbox_transport = lmtp:unix:private/dovecot-lmtp smtputf8_enable = no virtual_mailbox_domains = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/mysql_virtual_domains_maps.cf virtual_mailbox_maps = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/mysql_virtual_mailbox_maps.cf, proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/mysql_virtual_alias_domain_mailbox_maps.cf virtual_alias_maps = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf, proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/mysql_virtual_alias_domain_maps.cf, proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/mysql_virtual_alias_domain_catchall_maps.c f hash:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data/postfix_vmap #virtual_transport = lmtp:unix:private/dovecot-lmtp virtual_mailbox_base = /var/vmail virtual_minimum_uid = 2000 virtual_uid_maps = static:2000 virtual_gid_maps = static:2000 policyd-spf_time_limit = 3600 smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, permit_sasl_authenticated, reject_unauth_destination, check_policy_service unix:private/policyd-spf smtpd_relay_restrictions = permit_mynetworks permit_sasl_authenticated defer_unauth_destination # Milter configuration milter_default_action = accept milter_protocol = 6 smtpd_milters = local:opendkim/opendkim.sock non_smtpd_milters = $smtpd_milters unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550 ########################################### Here's the master.cf (comments deleted) : smtp inet n - y - - smtpd submission inet n - y - - smtpd -o syslog_name=postfix/submission -o smtpd_tls_security_level=encrypt -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes -o smtpd_tls_wrappermode=no -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes -o smtpd_relay_restrictions=permit_sasl_authenticated,reject -o smtpd_recipient_restrictions=permit_mynetworks,permit_sasl_authenticate d,reject -o smtpd_sasl_type=dovecot -o smtpd_sasl_path=private/auth smtps inet n - y - - smtpd -o syslog_name=postfix/smtps -o smtpd_tls_wrappermode=yes -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes -o smtpd_recipient_restrictions=permit_mynetworks,permit_sasl_authenticate d,reject -o smtpd_relay_restrictions=permit_sasl_authenticated,reject -o smtpd_sasl_type=dovecot -o smtpd_sasl_path=private/auth pickup unix n - y 60 1 pickup cleanup unix n - y - 0 cleanup qmgr unix n - n 300 1 qmgr tlsmgr unix - - y 1000? 1 tlsmgr rewrite unix - - y - - trivial-rewrite bounce unix - - y - 0 bounce defer unix - - y - 0 bounce trace unix - - y - 0 bounce verify unix - - y - 1 verify flush unix n - y 1000? 0 flush proxymap unix - - n - - proxymap proxywrite unix - - n - 1 proxymap smtp unix - - y - - smtp relay unix - - y - - smtp -o syslog_name=postfix/$service_name showq unix n - y - - showq error unix - - y - - error retry unix - - y - - error discard unix - - y - - discard local unix - n n - - local virtual unix - n n - - virtual lmtp unix - - y - - lmtp anvil unix - - y - 1 anvil scache unix - - y - 1 scache postlog unix-dgram n - n - 1 postlogd uucp unix - n n - - pipe flags=Fqhu user=uucp argv=uux -r -n -z -a$sender - $nexthop!rmail ($recipient) policyd-spf unix - n n - 0 spawn user=policyd-spf argv=/usr/bin/policyd-spf Thanks, billo

2 2

How to fix: [Django] ERROR (EXTERNAL IP)
by Jigme Datse 02 Nov '24

02 Nov '24

This feels like something that I should have working. I know I've not been attending to things all that well, so the thing that has happened, that's got us from, "possibly doing nothing," to throwing this error is that I went to update my mail server, and in the update, Mailman3 stopped working entirely (it was a variety of things), but now it's launching, and will load the main web interface... but Going to any of the list pages, gives the above Error. Well, not exactly the above error, Django is in square brackets. OK, that will work better for me with the how to fix. How to fix, probably isn't quite what I'm looking for, it's how to diagnose. The error tells me that the IP address is 127.0.0.1 and that 127.0.0.1 is in the ALLOWED_HOSTS. I *mostly* see this coming from Google, but when I go and look at the webpage, I get: normal page at /mailman3/lists/ But my lists, all give me... Something went wrong HTTP error 500: {"title": "500 Internal Server Error"} I've tried to figure out where to go from here, and right now I'm not making any progress, so I thought I'd ask here.

2 6

redirecting -bounces replies
by Hirayama, Pat 02 Nov '24

02 Nov '24

Greetings, Is it possible to redirect the -bounces alias of a specific list so that it also goes to a person, in addition to the normal bounces processing for that list? In Mailman2, I know that I could do that by modifying the aliases table. I've been poking around in Mailman3, but haven't managed to figure out which container I need to be looking at. And rather than keep spinning, I figured that I'd ask the hive mind, since I'm sure one of you can quickly point me to the correct location. Thanks! -p Pat Hirayama Pronouns: he/him/his Systems Engineer IT | Systems Engineering - Infrastructure Fred Hutch Cancer Center O 206.667.4856 phirayam(a)fredhutch.org<mailto:phirayam@fredhutch.org>

3 3

Do i need a mailman-hyperkitty.cfg file?
by Bill Oliver 30 Oct '24

30 Oct '24

While trying to set up my new mailman installation in Ubuntu 22.04, which doesn't quite work yet, I decided to compare my config files with my Ubuntu 24.04 LTS installation, which does seem to work to the degree I've tested it. I noticed this little snippet in the settings.py file: # Set this to match the api_key setting in # /opt/mailman/mm/mailman-hyperkitty.cfg (quoted here, not there). MAILMAN_ARCHIVER_KEY = 'Secret_Hyperkitty_API_Key' Aha, I thought. I should have changed that. Then I noticed that I didn't even have a mailman-hyperkitty.cfg file, and I can't find mention of it in the venv instructions. I *have* installed mailman- hyperkitty during the "pip install mailman-web mailman-hyperkitty" step. I did a "find" on /opt/mailman, and it doesn't seem the file is there at all. Do I need this file? I found a template here: https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-hyperkitty/blob/master/mailman-hyperkitt… Do I need to copy and paste that in my installation? Thanks! billo

2 2

Welcome message issue
by Mohsen Masoudfar 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

Good afternoon I have an issue with welcome message. A list owner is requesting to update the welcome message for only one of their lists. They are requesting to change the default text and insert additional URLs pointing to sites related to their list. I know there is a URI field that you may include a web page. But this doesn't work and gets ignored. - is there a mailman cli option to update the default template for a single list? I couldn't find it in WUI. I reviewed all parameters and variables of the list and couldn't find one that might be related to it. We are running an old version of Mailman 3. Thanks Mohsen

2 2

New installation, new issue: mailman3 migrate -- no module CommonMark
by Bill Oliver 27 Oct '24

27 Oct '24

My Ubuntu 24.04 installation is working great, and I have a list running perfectly. I'm now trying to install mailman3 on an older server, this time runing ubuntu 22.04. I'm following the venv installation instructions again, but suddenly came up with a new error. I've made it to the "Run database migrations" section I run mailmanweb-migrate and get: (venv) mailman@mail:~$ mailman-web migrate Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.10/site- packages/django/template/backends/django.py", line 128, in get_package_libraries module = import_module(entry[1]) File "/usr/lib/python3.10/importlib/__init__.py", line 126, in import_module return _bootstrap._gcd_import(name[level:], package, level) File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap>", line 1050, in _gcd_import File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap>", line 1027, in _find_and_load File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap>", line 1006, in _find_and_load_unlocked File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap>", line 688, in _load_unlocked File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap_external>", line 883, in exec_module File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap>", line 241, in _call_with_frames_removed File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.10/site- packages/postorius/templatetags/markdown.py", line 21, in <module> from readme_renderer import markdown as md_render File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.10/site- packages/readme_renderer/markdown.py", line 16, in <module> from CommonMark import commonmark ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'CommonMark' The above exception was the direct cause of the following exception: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/mailman/venv/bin/mailman-web", line 8, in <module> sys.exit(main()) File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.10/site- packages/mailman_web/manage.py", line 87, in main execute_from_command_line(sys.argv) File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.10/site- packages/django/core/management/__init__.py", line 442, in execute_from_command_line utility.execute() File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.10/site- packages/django/core/management/__init__.py", line 436, in execute self.fetch_command(subcommand).run_from_argv(self.argv) File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.10/site- packages/django/core/management/base.py", line 412, in run_from_argv self.execute(*args, **cmd_options) File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.10/site- packages/django/core/management/base.py", line 458, in execute output = self.handle(*args, **options) File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.10/site- packages/django/core/management/base.py", line 106, in wrapper res = handle_func(*args, **kwargs) File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.10/site- packages/django/core/management/commands/migrate.py", line 100, in handle self.check(databases=[database]) File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.10/site- packages/django/core/management/base.py", line 485, in check all_issues = checks.run_checks( File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.10/site- packages/django/core/checks/registry.py", line 88, in run_checks new_errors = check(app_configs=app_configs, databases=databases) File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.10/site- packages/django/core/checks/templates.py", line 60, in check_for_template_tags_with_the_same_name for module_name, module_path in get_template_tag_modules(): File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.10/site- packages/django/template/backends/django.py", line 105, in get_template_tag_modules for name in get_package_libraries(pkg): File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.10/site- packages/django/template/backends/django.py", line 130, in get_package_libraries raise InvalidTemplateLibrary( django.template.library.InvalidTemplateLibrary: Invalid template library specified. ImportError raised when trying to load 'postorius.templatetags.markdown': No mod ule named 'CommonMark' I know nothing about CommonMark. Since I've suffered the error cascade problem of trying to fix things and just making it worse, I stopped here. Can I ignore this error, or what can I do to fix it? Thanks! billo

2 5

501 Message has defects
by jgn1980＠gmail.com 25 Oct '24

25 Oct '24

Hi I'm using GNU Mailman 3.3.8 (Tom Sawyer) on debian 12, and I have this issue on a scheduled e-mail, every day: 2024-10-25T04:00:04.874081+01:00 XXXXXXX postfix/lmtp[29258]: CEB32100F44: to=<XXX(a)XXX.XX>, relay=localhost[127.0.0.1]:8024, delay=0.02, delays=0.01/0/0.01/0.01, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host localhost[127.0.0.1] said: 501 Message has defects (in reply to end of DATA command)) I have already changed some settings on the postfix and list configurations, without success. Outlook 365 and gmail receive the email without issues. Does anyone have any idea of how I can fix this? Thanks,

2 1

Timeout error on anonymous subscribe
by vogt＠spamcop.net 25 Oct '24

25 Oct '24

Hi, I am running a mailman 3.3.9 server (pip installation). It's working fine so far. However, I have problems setting a template. I set a '[list:user:action:subscribe]' template for a list with some simple text like "test1234". When someone wants to subscribe on the list page without creating an account, it takes five seconds until "HTTPSConnectionPool(host='lists.example.org', port=443): Read timed out. (read timeout=5)" appears on the page. The mail address has been added pending confirmation but no mail gets send. mailman.log shows just exceptions about the timeout itself: Sep 09 15:01:45 2024 (2070549) deque: do_confirm_verify Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.11/site-packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py", line 536, in _make_request response = conn.getresponse() ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ... requests.exceptions.ReadTimeout: HTTPSConnectionPool(host='lists.dkrz.de', port=443): Read timed out. (read timeout=5) [09/Sep/2024:15:01:45 +0200] "POST /3.1/members HTTP/1.1" 400 132 "-" "GNU Mailman REST client v3.3.5" The access log suggests that getting the template took 5s: ==> /opt/mailman/mm/var/logs/access.log <== 127.0.0.1 - - [09/Sep/2024:13:01:45 +0000] "GET /mailman3/api/templates/list/community.lists.example.org/list:user:action:subscribe HTTP/1.1" 200 8 "-" "python-requests/2.32.3" Running curl on that url returns immediately $ curl -v 'http://localhost:8000/mailman3/api/templates/list/community.lists.example.o…' I have captured the network traffic on localhost interface lo and I can see that the request is sent through the tcp connection and acknowledged. Then 5 seconds later the server (port 8000) sends a push data with the response and closes the connection with FIN. The data exchanged on the connection looks like this: GET /mailman3/api/templates/list/community.lists.example.org/list:user:action:subscribe HTTP/1.1 Host: lists.example.org User-Agent: python-requests/2.32.3 Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate Accept: */* X-Forwarded-Proto: https X-Forwarded-For: 2001:638:1234:1224::111 X-Forwarded-Host: lists.example.org X-Forwarded-Server: lists.example.org Connection: Keep-Alive HTTP/1.1 200 OK Server: gunicorn Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2024 13:01:45 GMT Connection: close Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Content-Type-Options: nosniff Referrer-Policy: same-origin Cross-Origin-Opener-Policy: same-origin X-Frame-Options: DENY Vary: Accept-Language, Cookie Content-Language: en Content-Length: 8 test1234 The timestamp 13:01:45 is the time of the timeout. The request started five seconds before that. It looks to me as if the connection/keepalive handling is not working properly or the server isn't pushing the response immediately, but it gets buffered until the 5s timeout. Occassionally, I have capture a requests, where the client side would send a FIN to the server and only then the server would send the http response with the final packets. Does anyone have an idea how I can fix this? Thanks, Gerald

3 9

User account issue after importing data from Mailman 2.x server
by dgoldsmith＠sans.org 24 Oct '24

24 Oct '24

We finally migrated from Mailman 2.x to a Mailman 3.x several months ago. We have had some issues with people who are active list members not being able to login with their user creds and when trying to use the 'Forgot Password' link to reset, being told their user account does not exist. They can submit email to the list and get copied on other list traffic. I just started looking at a user and a list in both the Postorius and Django admin web UIs and found: - in Postorius: - list exists, has 20K plus subscribed members and has 3 list owners - user exists and is subscribed to this list - in Django: - in HyperKitty section - in the Mailing lists page, the list exists, no idea about members BUT it has 147 owners (also the same 147 moderators) - in the Emails page, there are 149K plus entries - in the Profiles page, there are 147 entries - in the Accounts->Email addresses page, there are only 155 entries - in the AUTHENTICATION AND AUTHORIZATION->Users page, there are 147 entries Should Mailman 3.x have created user accounts for everyone when importing the data from the old server? To correct the issue on a case by case basis, can I as a server admin do something via the web UI or CLI or do we need to remove the email address from the list and ask the person to create a new account using that address and to resubscribe to the specific list or other? Thanks, David Goldsmith

2 1

Logging subscribes/unsubscribes
by Brian Carpenter 22 Oct '24

22 Oct '24

Does Mailman 3 log subscribes and unsubscribes for each list the way Mailman 2 did? Brian

5 7

Add domain to Mailman, can't create list with that new domain
by Andy Matthews 22 Oct '24

22 Oct '24

I'm testing locally to try and support additional domains. I can add new mailing lists with a domain: announce-123(a)mydomain.com I can't add a new mailing list with an alternate domain: announce-123(a)testing.com Following the documentation for domains I'm able to successfully add the new domain (locally) with the following steps: https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/model/docs… 1. Shell into the mailman server 2. Shell into the mailman Python environment: mailman shell 3. Add a new mailing list. from mailman.interfaces.domain import IDomainManager from zope.component import getUtility manager = getUtility(IDomainManager) manager.add('testing.com') show_domains() # with method from the above documentation URL <Domain testing.com> <Domain mydomain.com> But then when I run a cURL command (from the mailman server) to add a list with that new domain I get an error: $ curl -k -u restadmin:restpass -X POST -H "Content-Type: application/json" --data '{"fqdn_listname": "new-list(a)testing.com"}' https://0.0.0.0:8001/3.1/lists {"title": "400 Bad Request", "description": "Domain does not exist: testing.com"} Am I doing something wrong, or missing a step? If not, how do I add support for additional domains such that I can provide mailing list support for that domain?

3 11

OK, so I backed out completely and re-installed. Here's my *original* error. Should I modify virtual mailbox maps?
by Bill Oliver 19 Oct '24

19 Oct '24

OK, I think I was clearly in the phase of dealing with errors caused by my attempts to deal with previous errors. So I backed out and did a clean install. Again, the installl seemed to go without a problem. Then: 1) I set up a mailinglist (tradfp(a)forensicpath.us) for "old school" forensic pathologists to discuss cases. 2) I added a couple of users: oliver(a)billoblog.com on the same box as the mailinglist, though on different virtual domains, and william.oliver(a)knoxcounty.org, a local government domain not associated with my box. Results: The welcome message did not get delivered to either address. When I send email from those addresses to tradfp(a)forensicpath.us, I get the following error from both: Your message couldn't be delivered The message you sent to tradfp(a)forensicpath.us couldn't be delivered due to: Recipient email address is possibly incorrect. Further information 5.1.1 <tradfp(a)forensicpath.us>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table If you sent this message to multiple addresses, you'll receive a notification like this for every one that didn't arrive. That is when I started going down the dovecot rabbit hole. Here's the (what I think is relevant) part of the mail.cf file: virtual_mailbox_domains = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/mysql_virtual_domains_maps.cf virtual_mailbox_maps = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/mysql_virtual_mailbox_maps.cf, proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/mysql_virtual_alias_domain_mailbox_maps.cf virtual_alias_maps = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf, proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/mysql_virtual_alias_domain_maps.cf, proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/mysql_virtual_alias_domain_catchall_maps.c f virtual_mailbox_base = /var/vmail virtual_minimum_uid = 900 virtual_uid_maps = static:900 virtual_gid_maps = static:900 transport_maps = hash:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data/postfix_lmtp local_recipient_maps = hash:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data/postfix_lmtp relay_domains = hash:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data/postfix_domains In my previous attempt, I added hash:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data/postfix_lmtp to both virtual_mailbox_maps and virtual_alias_maps, but I haven't done that yet here. I thought I'd ask and make sure I should. Should that be my next step? Thanks, billo

2 3

Debug=False breaks Django/MM3-Login-page
by Stefan Bauer 18 Oct '24

18 Oct '24

Hi folks, I'm trying to hide the custom 404 error messages from Django. ------------------------- Page not found (404) Request Method: GET Request URL: http://......./non-existent-2008020390 Using the URLconf defined in mailman_web.urls, Django tried these URL patterns, in this order: mailman3/ archives/ ^user-profile/delete$ [name='mm_user_account_delete'] ^user-profile/$ [name='mm_user_profile'] accounts/ admin/ postorius/ hyperkitty/ The current path, non-existent-2008020390, didn’t match any of these. You’re seeing this error because you have DEBUG = True in your Django settings file. Change that to False, and Django will display a standard 404 page. ----------------------------- Switching DEBUG=True (currently set in settings.py) to false does indeed hide additional debugging output, but following pages are not accessible anymore (Server Error). user-profile/ accounts/logout/ hyperkitty/ Switching back to DEBUG=True brings back accessibility. This is Mailman Core-Version GNU Mailman 3.3.9 (Tom Sawyer) Mailman Core API-Version 3.1 Mailman Core Python-Version 3.10.12 (main, Sep 11 2024, 15:47:36) [GCC 11.4.0] any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you. Stefan

2 1

adding personalized email header/content in mailman 3
by Alex I 17 Oct '24

17 Oct '24

adding personalized email header/content Hello, I'm upgrading from mailman 2.1 and need to have personalized email header and content. In 2.1 eventually (couldn't get custom handler work) I had to modify Decorate.py handler. Basically encrypting email and passing it as a parameter in google required One-click unsubscribe email header link (same in the message body). I tried creating a custom Handler (custom_header.py) in 3.3.19, adding outgoing_pipeline = custom_header in config [mta] section but it doesn't seem to be activating. Thanks

2 6

Verification emails 'helo' rejected
by Greg Newby 16 Oct '24

16 Oct '24

Hi friends. I'm now getting a 500 server error upon signing up a new username on the web-based front end. The username is created in the back end, but the verification email does not get sent. This is GNU Mailman 3.3.9 (Tom Sawyer), venv, Ubuntu 24.04LTS, PostgreSQL, Postfix Here are the corresponding logfile entries from mailmanweb.log: smtplib.SMTPRecipientsRefused: {'redacted(a)gmail.com': (504, b'5.5.2 <mail>: Helo command rejected: need fully-qualified hostname')} and from mail.log: Oct 14 12:06:26 domain postfix/smtpd[722764]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from localhost[127.0.0.1]: 504 5.5.2 <mail>: Helo command rejected: need fully-qualified hostname; from=<root(a)lists.domain.tld> to=<root@localhost> proto=ESMTP helo=<mail> lists.domain.tld is the domain for Mailman3. I don't know why it's trying to send email from root@. I've seen places where 'localhost' appears in the Mailman settings (settings.py, mailman.cfg, mailman-web.py), and tried changing them to the host's FQDN and restarting mailman3 and mailman3-web, but the problem persists. Suggestions will be appreciated. ~ Greg

4 8

mailmanweb/django?: too many postgresql DB connections
by api＠egartech.com 16 Oct '24

16 Oct '24

Hello, I'm migrating from mailman 2.1 to the latest version (3.3.9) on Almalinux 9 (python 3.19, postgresql 13.16). Have followed the instructions here https://docs.list.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html#virtualenv-install to perform a clean install on a new VM. Everything seems to be working (well, I just created one list and doing some basic tests). What I have noticed is hundreds of PGsql connections from mailmanweb. Once mailmanweb service is started there are new non-stop DB connections requests (from Django I guess), here is just 1 second from PGsql log: 2024-10-10 12:15:37.112 EDT [3217] DEBUG: forked new backend, pid=3747 socket=10 2024-10-10 12:15:37.113 EDT [3217] DEBUG: server process (PID 3746) exited with exit code 0 2024-10-10 12:15:37.318 EDT [3217] DEBUG: forked new backend, pid=3748 socket=10 2024-10-10 12:15:37.318 EDT [3217] DEBUG: server process (PID 3747) exited with exit code 0 2024-10-10 12:15:37.523 EDT [3217] DEBUG: forked new backend, pid=3749 socket=10 2024-10-10 12:15:37.524 EDT [3217] DEBUG: server process (PID 3748) exited with exit code 0 2024-10-10 12:15:37.728 EDT [3217] DEBUG: forked new backend, pid=3750 socket=10 2024-10-10 12:15:37.729 EDT [3217] DEBUG: server process (PID 3749) exited with exit code 0 2024-10-10 12:15:37.934 EDT [3217] DEBUG: forked new backend, pid=3751 socket=10 2024-10-10 12:15:37.935 EDT [3217] DEBUG: server process (PID 3750) exited with exit code 0 Few minutes later there are around 300 dead (TIME_WAIT) connections to port 5432 like these: tcp 0 0 127.0.0.1:33728 127.0.0.1:5432 TIME_WAIT tcp 0 0 127.0.0.1:40392 127.0.0.1:5432 TIME_WAIT tcp 0 0 127.0.0.1:50860 127.0.0.1:5432 TIME_WAIT tcp 0 0 127.0.0.1:40254 127.0.0.1:5432 TIME_WAIT tcp 0 0 127.0.0.1:40218 127.0.0.1:5432 TIME_WAIT tcp 0 0 127.0.0.1:40110 127.0.0.1:5432 TIME_WAIT I'm totally unfamiliar with Django so not sure where even to look, but that doesn't looks right to me. Thanks

1 1

Database permission problem?
by Bill Oliver 16 Oct '24

16 Oct '24

I have mailman3 installed and mostly configured on a linux machine running ubuntu 24.04. I can use mailmanweb to add and delete mailinglists and users. However, mail is not getting delivered at all. I have both mysql and postgres installed -- I'm using postgres only for mailman, and mysql for dovecot and postfix. Mail, in general, works fine. I'm hosting four virtual domains on this box, and mail to and from all of them to many users gives me no errors. When I add a new user (and thus try to send a welcome message) mail.err log gives me: 2024-10-15T12:40:11.193687-04:00 mail postfix/virtual[960838]: error: open database /opt/mailman/mm/var/data/postfix_lmtp.db: Permission denied I've tried playing with file permissions. I put postfix,mail, and vmail in the mailman group, and tried giving ownership of postfix_domains, postfix_lmtp, and postfix_vmap to user postfix, but that changed nothing. Currently, it sits at: root:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data# ls -l total 36 -rw-rw-r-- 1 postfix mailman 0 Oct 15 12:53 postfic_vmap.db -rw-rw-r-- 1 postfix mailman 12288 Oct 15 12:53 postfic_vmap.db.db -rw-rw---- 1 postfix mailman 353 Oct 13 07:54 postfix_domains -rw-rw-r-- 1 postfix mailman 0 Oct 15 12:53 postfix_domains.db -rw-rw-r-- 1 postfix mailman 12288 Oct 15 12:53 postfix_domains.db.db -rw-rw---- 1 postfix mailman 1155 Oct 13 07:54 postfix_lmtp -rw-rw-r-- 1 postfix mailman 0 Oct 15 12:53 postfix_lmtp.db -rw-rw-r-- 1 postfix mailman 12288 Oct 15 12:53 postfix_lmtp.db.db -rw-rw---- 1 postfix mailman 1118 Oct 13 07:54 postfix_vmap So, I'm assuming this is a database permissions error, but I don't know how to fix it. As an aside, my main.cf is below. Any help would be appreciated. billo %cat main.cf smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Ubuntu) biff = no # appending .domain is the MUA's job. append_dot_mydomain = no # Uncomment the next line to generate "delayed mail" warnings #delay_warning_time = 4h readme_directory = no # See http://www.postfix.org/COMPATIBILITY_README.html -- default to 3.6 on # fresh installs. compatibility_level = 3.6 #Enable TLS Encryption when Postfix receives incoming emails smtpd_tls_cert_file=/etc/letsencrypt/live/mail.forensicpath.us/fullchai n.pem smtpd_tls_key_file=/etc/letsencrypt/live/mail.forensicpath.us/privkey.p em smtpd_tls_loglevel = 1 smtpd_tls_security_level=may smtpd_tls_loglevel = 1 smtpd_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtpd_scache #Enable TLS Encryption when Postfix sends outgoing emails smtp_tls_CApath=/etc/ssl/certs smtp_tls_security_level = may smtp_tls_loglevel = 1 smtp_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtp_scache smtpd_relay_restrictions = permit_mynetworks permit_sasl_authenticated defer_unauth_destination myhostname = mail.forensicpath.us alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases myorigin = /etc/mailname mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost relayhost = mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104 [::1]/128 mailbox_size_limit = 0 recipient_delimiter = + inet_interfaces = all inet_protocols = ipv4 #Enforce TLSv1.3 or TLSv1.2 smtpd_tls_mandatory_protocols = !SSLv2, !SSLv3, !TLSv1, !TLSv1.1 smtpd_tls_protocols = !SSLv2, !SSLv3, !TLSv1, !TLSv1.1 smtp_tls_mandatory_protocols = !SSLv2, !SSLv3, !TLSv1, !TLSv1.1 smtp_tls_protocols = !SSLv2, !SSLv3, !TLSv1, !TLSv1.1 mailbox_transport = lmtp:unix:private/dovecot-lmtp smtputf8_enable = no virtual_mailbox_domains = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/mysql_virtual_domains_maps.cf virtual_mailbox_maps = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/mysql_virtual_mailbox_maps.cf, proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/mysql_virtual_alias_domain_mailbox_maps.cf #added 20241009 for mailman hash:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data/postfix_lmtp ${dovecot} virtual_alias_maps = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf, proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/mysql_virtual_alias_domain_maps.cf, proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/mysql_virtual_alias_domain_catchall_maps.c f #added 20241009 for mailman hash:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data/postfix_vmap virtual_mailbox_base = /var/vmail virtual_minimum_uid = 900 virtual_uid_maps = static:900 virtual_gid_maps = static:900 policyd-spf_time_limit = 3600 smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, permit_sasl_authenticated, defer_unauth_destination, check_policy_service unix:private/policyd-spf # Milter configuration milter_default_action = accept milter_protocol = 6 smtpd_milters = local:opendkim/opendkim.sock non_smtpd_milters = $smtpd_milters #Mailman transport stuff transport_maps = hash:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data/postfix_lmtp local_recipient_maps = hash:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data/postfix_lmtp ${dovecot} relay_domains = hash:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data/postfix_domains

5 12

max_day_to_hold - when in force?
by Wikinaut 15 Oct '24

15 Oct '24

There are quite few discussions (back to 2020) dealing with the variable max_day_to_hold and the (non-) handling of the set value, I found for example Marc's comment https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… : I'm really not sure what you are looking to do, but I can tell you that while the max_days_to_hold list attribute exists and can be set, the actual discarding of held messages older than max_days_to_hold is not implemented. Thus the setting currently does nothing. My question: Are there any plans to bring this into action, so that held messages are really discarded after that number of days? (like it was in mailman2)?

2 1

're' problem is sending messages to queue/shunt for an entire domain
by Greg Newby 15 Oct '24

15 Oct '24

Hi friends. I have multiple domains under MM3 (venv, postfix+postgres, Ubuntu 24.04LTS). Currently at version GNU Mailman 3.3.9 (Tom Sawyer). Following some user complaints, I've discovered that one of the domains isn't working at all. Messages arrive via postfix and are in the MM smtp.log, but then generate a Python error in mailman.log. Other domains are working as usual. The lists in this domain used to work (I can see messages in the archives, and have received copies). But I imported a bunch more MM2 lists since then, and perhaps there is a problem with one of their configurations. Pointers to how to fix this will be appreciated! Here is the error from ~mailman/mm/var/logs/mailman.log: ==> mailman.log <== Oct 13 23:27:34 2024 (365022) Uncaught runner exception: multiple repeat at position 11 Oct 13 23:27:34 2024 (365022) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/mailman/core/runner.py", line 179, in _one_iteration self._process_one_file(msg, msgdata) File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/mailman/core/runner.py", line 272, in _process_one_file keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/mailman/runners/incoming.py", line 80, in _dispose process(mlist, msg, msgdata, start_chain) File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/mailman/core/chains.py", line 57, in process if link.rule.check(mlist, msg, msgdata): ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/mailman/rules/banned_address.py", line 40, in check if ban_manager.is_banned(sender): ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/mailman/database/transaction.py", line 106, in wrapper return function(args[0], config.db.store, *args[1:], **kws) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/mailman/model/bans.py", line 103, in is_banned re.match(ban.email, email, re.IGNORECASE) is not None): ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/usr/lib/python3.12/re/__init__.py", line 167, in match return _compile(pattern, flags).match(string) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/usr/lib/python3.12/re/__init__.py", line 307, in _compile p = _compiler.compile(pattern, flags) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/usr/lib/python3.12/re/_compiler.py", line 745, in compile p = _parser.parse(p, flags) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/usr/lib/python3.12/re/_parser.py", line 979, in parse p = _parse_sub(source, state, flags & SRE_FLAG_VERBOSE, 0) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/usr/lib/python3.12/re/_parser.py", line 460, in _parse_sub itemsappend(_parse(source, state, verbose, nested + 1, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/usr/lib/python3.12/re/_parser.py", line 690, in _parse raise source.error("multiple repeat", re.error: multiple repeat at position 11 Followed by a message that it's going to queue/shunt: Oct 13 23:15:25 2024 (365022) SHUNTING: 1728886525.4656847+d1a03bf710a246d029a087eabd40bed11c1af4b5 ... where it stays. Delivery never happens. I've tried with listname(a)lists.domain.tld as well as listname-owner(a)lists.domain.tld. The lists in the domain seem to be set up properly -- they used to work fine! I am suspicious the problem happened when I imported some other lists, but those imports didn't cause any errors. I've done the usual sequence of restarting mailman services, rebooting the server, double-checking the configuration files, and reviewing the list settings. Thanks for your help! ~ Greg

2 2

Search function returning results from another list
by Marco van Tol 15 Oct '24

15 Oct '24

Hi there, We have several lists on our list server here, and noticed that if we do this: - go to the archive of public list x - type in "minutes" in the search bar If will: - show a screen: list-x search results for query "minutes" - have 3 results in there for another private list - show a message that you need to login to view the message if you click on one Our current mailman core version is: 3.3.9 Our current hyperkitty version is: 1.3.10 Our index engine is: xapian_backend.XapianEngine Does this make sense? Thanks! Marco van Tol RIPE NCC

1 2

Recently redeployed mailman3 and then received huge amount of subscription disabled notification emails
by francesd919＠gmail.com 12 Oct '24

12 Oct '24

Hi everyone, I recently redeployed our mailman3 server. As the owner for one of our mailing lists, I received a huge amount of subscription disabled notification emails. These emails mentioned that the subscription was disabled due to bounce score. Furthermore, we received a few emails from our subscribers saying that they have functioning email addresses and not sure why there were bounces and that their subsctiptions had been disabed. I have some questions: 1. Why do mailman mass send out subscription disabled notification emails to admins after it's been redeployed? 2. I have "Bounce disable warnings" set to 3 and "Bounce disabled warnings interval" set to 7d. How come there are still so many emails seem to be disabled but not unsubscribed? Hence we receiving so many subscription disabled notification emails. 3. What could have cuased functioning emails to bounce and therefore being disabled? Thank you in advance! Frances 3.

2 1

mailman changeaddress: Address already exists; can't change
by joelbrownstein＠computer.org 12 Oct '24

12 Oct '24

Hi, We migrated ~100 lists from mailman2 to mailman3 (very nice!) including > 6000 distinct email addresses ("subscribers"). I would like to run the mailman changeaddress command to do a global change of email for a member that moved. But they have other subscriptions using their new email, so both the old and new address are migrated to mailman3 as distinct "members", which prevents the mailman changeaddress from making the change with error: $ mailman changeaddress "EMAIL_1" "EMAIL_2" Usage: mailman changeaddress [OPTIONS] OLD_ADDRESS NEW_ADDRESS Try 'mailman changeaddress -h' for help. Error: Address "EMAIL_2" already exists; can't change. Is there a workaround? Thanks, Joel

2 1

MM3 error on moderation request
by Odhiambo Washington 11 Oct '24

11 Oct '24

MM3 - 3.3.10, Postorius 1.3.13. After receiving the notification to attend to a moderation request: ``` At your convenience, visit https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mm/lists/kictanet.lists.kictanet.or.ke/hel… to approve or deny the request(s). ``` Upon visiting the link I ended up with a server error. mailmanweb.log has the below to say: ``` [ERROR] [2024-10-10 12:29:15,905] [log] 809040 139858772735552 Internal Server Error: /mm/lists/kictanet.lists.kictanet.or.ke/held_messages Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/template/defaulttags.py", line 1026, in find_library return parser.libraries[name] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~^^^^^^ KeyError: 'humanize' During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/core/handlers/exception.py", line 55, in inner response = get_response(request) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/core/handlers/base.py", line 197, in _get_response response = wrapped_callback(request, *callback_args, **callback_kwargs) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/contrib/auth/decorators.py", line 23, in _wrapper_view return view_func(request, *args, **kwargs) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/postorius/auth/decorators.py", line 63, in wrapper return fn(*args, **kwargs) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/postorius/views/list.py", line 889, in list_moderation return render(request, 'postorius/lists/held_messages.html', context) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/shortcuts.py", line 24, in render content = loader.render_to_string(template_name, context, request, using=using) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/template/loader.py", line 61, in render_to_string template = get_template(template_name, using=using) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/template/loader.py", line 15, in get_template return engine.get_template(template_name) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/template/backends/django.py", line 33, in get_template return Template(self.engine.get_template(template_name), self) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/template/engine.py", line 175, in get_template template, origin = self.find_template(template_name) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/template/engine.py", line 157, in find_template template = loader.get_template(name, skip=skip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/template/loaders/cached.py", line 57, in get_template template = super().get_template(template_name, skip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/template/loaders/base.py", line 28, in get_template return Template( ^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/template/base.py", line 154, in __init__ self.nodelist = self.compile_nodelist() ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/template/base.py", line 200, in compile_nodelist return parser.parse() ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/template/base.py", line 513, in parse raise self.error(token, e) File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/template/base.py", line 511, in parse compiled_result = compile_func(self, token) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/template/loader_tags.py", line 293, in do_extends nodelist = parser.parse() ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/template/base.py", line 513, in parse raise self.error(token, e) File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/template/base.py", line 511, in parse compiled_result = compile_func(self, token) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/template/defaulttags.py", line 1088, in load lib = find_library(parser, name) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/template/defaulttags.py", line 1028, in find_library raise TemplateSyntaxError( django.template.exceptions.TemplateSyntaxError: 'humanize' is not a registered tag library. Must be one of: account admin_list admin_modify admin_urls allauth bootstrap_tags cache compress d_gravatar date_helpers debugger_tags decorate gravatar highlight highlighting hk_generic hk_haystack i18n indent_text l10n log markdown membership_helpers more_like_this nav_helpers p_gravatar pagination postorius_helpers rest_framework socialaccount static syntax_color tz widont [WARNING] [2024-10-10 12:29:16,384] [log] 809040 139858704070336 Not Found: /mc/compose ``` How to fix? -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 In an Internet failure case, the #1 suspect is a constant: DNS. "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]

2 2

Two trivial questons:
by Bill Oliver 10 Oct '24

10 Oct '24

First: Last night I got everything installed and, I think, working. Unfortunately, I forgot to write down the name and password of the superuser I created. I know what I put in as password, but I cant' remamber the name of the superuser. I know I could just create another superuser with "mailmanweb createsuperuser" but I was wondering if there was a "mailmanweb" command for *listing* superusers. If not, I'll just make another superuser... Second: I have the "example.com" error in the login screen. The instructions state that this is a problem with making SITE_ID=1. Okay, but I don't know what to change it to. I tried SITE_ID=2 on a lark and everything broke, and the instruction say not to do SITE_ID=0. Apparently it has to be an integer (I also tried putting in site name and got that error). So... where do I change it? Thanks! billo

1 3

Congrats on the instructions for installation on ubuntu, what about migration?
by Bill Oliver 09 Oct '24

09 Oct '24

So I went ahead and tried to install mailman3 on ubuntu 24.04 using the virtual environment approach. It worked like a charm. There were a very few glitches, all from me not reading the instructions closely (e.g. not replacing MY_SERVER with my server name, Doh). The whole thing, from start to finish was about two hours. I appreciate all y'alls efforts in this. The reason I'm doing this is that I'm having to migrate from a server that's going to be defunct soon. I've been running a mailman3 mailing list on that for a few years. Is there a tutorial/instructions on migrating data from an old system to a new one? It's actually not the end of the world if I don't get all the old emails transferred, but I'd like to get the email addresses of the participants moved over easily... I believe that I set it up in 2020, but did not do any version upgrades since then... Thanks! billo

3 3

Upgrade docker-mailman to v0.5.2
by Christopher 08 Oct '24

08 Oct '24

Hi Abhilash, I checkout the v0.5.2 for testing my upgrade from 0.4.6 and noticed, that the docker-image-version is still set to 0.4 in docker-compose.yaml. Is there any reason for it or should it be set to 0.5? I´m still using my good old mariadb. I did not find any upgrade-informations about breaking-changes. Do you have any experience with migrating from 0.4.6 to 0.5.2 on mariadb? Best regards Chrclaus

1 0

anomalous behavior
by donato＠molino.it 05 Oct '24

05 Oct '24

Hi, I installed mailman-full on debian 12. Everything works perfectly except for the fact that for a single ML the messages are not delivered to the recipients. I have three MLs: 1) example(a)example.com 2) test(a)example.com 3) hello(a)example.com For the n. 2 and 3 are fine, but 1 doesn't deliver. The configurations are identical for all 3: smtp.log:Oct 05 11:37:44 2024 (42769) Peer: ('127.0.0.1', 37912) Oct 05 11:37:44 2024 (42769) ('127.0.0.1', 37912) handling connection Oct 05 11:37:44 2024 (42769) ('127.0.0.1', 37912) >> b'LHLO list.example.com' Oct 05 11:37:44 2024 (42769) ('127.0.0.1', 37912) >> b'MAIL FROM:<subscriber(a)domain.tld> SIZE=7873 BODY=7BIT' Oct 05 11:37:44 2024 (42769) ('127.0.0.1', 37912) sender: subscriber(a)domain.tld Oct 05 11:37:44 2024 (42769) ('127.0.0.1', 37912) >> b'RCPT TO:<example(a)list.example.com>' Oct 05 11:37:44 2024 (42769) ('127.0.0.1', 37912) recip: example(a)list.example.com Oct 05 11:37:44 2024 (42769) ('127.0.0.1', 37912) >> b'DATA' Oct 05 11:37:44 2024 (42769) ('127.0.0.1', 37912) >> b'QUIT' I also enabled all debugging in mailman.cfg. But everything is fine Thanks Donato

3 5

Should I try to install mailman3 on Kubuntu 20.04?
by Bill Oliver 05 Oct '24

05 Oct '24

I have been a happy camper running mailman3 on a vps I rent from a vendor, running CentOS 7. CentOS 7 is past end of life, so I moving over to a new machine running Kubuntu 20.04 LTS. I have been searching the intertubes and have seen a bunch of people having headaches trying it. So... Is Ubuntu 20.04 cool with mailman3? Should I go ahead and give it a shot or use a different distro? Should I do the apt install, the virtualenv install, or try the docker install? thanks billo

4 5

reset bounce-scores?
by IEM Network Operation Center (IOhannes m zmölnig) 04 Oct '24

04 Oct '24

i'm running a mailman-3.3.8 instance, and would like to reset the bounce-score for a (number of) user(s). i searched the internet and this list's archives, but haven't found anything useful so far. due to a misconfiguration of our universities reverse DNS lookup, the bounce score of some users has rocketed in the last days - some users have already been unsubscribed because of that. could anybody please share how i can reset the bounce score? gfmasdr IOhannes ___________________________________________ Die Inhaltsfilterung von Mailman hat die folgenden MIME-Teile aus dieser Nachricht entfernt. Content-Type: application/pgp-keys Name: OpenPGP_0xB65019C47F7A36F8.asc

2 1