- Mailman-users - lists.mailman3.org

Postorius Suggestion: Give owner a view of all users of all owned lists
by Stephen J. Turnbull March 14, 2025

March 14, 2025

Andreas Vetter writes: > A list of all addresses subscribed to all lists owned by the logged > in person. This is starting to take a better form. It's still very specialized, so I'm starting to wonder if trying to add it to Postorius is a great idea. Of course if people are coming in over the network, you don't want to reproduce all the authentication and authorization logic implemented in Django and Postorius. That may as well be done in Django, and if you're doing Django it may as well be Postorius too. But if you're in a single sign-on environment so presence in the network implies strong authentication, you will get more flexibility from local scripts using mailmanclient, or if you're confident in security access to the REST API directly. Just putting that out for your consideration, since implementing what is taking shape here would take quite some time as the folks skilled with Postorius are not so active these days. > Owner is the primary target group for that. But since it should be > a tool for managing subscriptions in a simple way, it might also be > of interest for superusers. For me as a superuser it would make > life easier. [...] > Ah, I see the problem and agree: So, the presentation should have a > sorted and searchable list of addresses and a Button next to each > address, maybe labeled "Subscriptions". Looking at your description above, for superusers that is basically the Users tab, though. Users are identified by primary address, and you'd not see alternate addresses in the list. But presumably your internal users use their @your.org addresses as primary. Can you make clear what could be more streamlined for your use cases as superuser? I give one example below, maybe that's what you're mostly interested in. The caveats about access to User objects still apply for owners, so even if they look the same (which is a good UX idea if owner functionality is a subset of superuser functionality, also they might even be able to share the basic page templates), the implementation is going to be rather different. I suspect you superusers would be quite frustrated if using the "subscribe all these lists" functionality meant you couldn't get at the User object without going to a different page. I do see one weird thing: you can't manipulate subscription itself from the User page as seen by the superuser from that list, only toggle moderation and delivery mode. I guess that's reasonable for a lot of use cases, though. I've never wanted to do a subscribe or unsubscribe from there. I always have a long list of users to subscribe to specific lists, never a list of lists a specific user should belong to, > The presentation given when above "Subscriptions" Button is clicked > should contain the address as kind of Headline. Then a table of > all lists of the logged in owner and next to each mailing list an > indication, if the address is subscribed or not and a Button to > toggle subscription/unsubscription. May be a single Toggle Button > or (maybe better) two buttons, a suscribe and a unsubscribe button, > where one is greyed out. This would not work with the current User page as presented to a superuser, that's true. The current presentation is quite suited to its purpose, with sections for Addresses, Subscriptions, Ownership, and Delete User in that order. But especially for superusers, there are plenty of sites with thousands, even tens of thousands of lists, and even a paged or scrollable presentation would be awful UI, and the potential for a disastrous mistake using "do all" is high. > In addition my owners would like to have a "unsubscribe from all my > lists" button. And a "subscribe to all my lists" button. This might > be visually nicer, when having the two-button approach above. I wonder if your owners really want "subscribe all". "Unsubscribe all" does make sense for separations, of course, and they wouldn't necessarily be terminations. It would be useful in an internal transfer where "delete user" is not a solution. But in my experience specialized channels tend to proliferate but the same people are likely to be running them as run the department-wide lisst. > In our case we would want to (un-)subscribe the address in a "do > it, don't ask anyone" fashion, but maybe this is not a good idea in > general. What do you think? I think we would implement it similarly to the mass subscribe for multiple addresses case, where the list owner can decide how much bureaucracy to require of the subscriber. You'd want to be careful to make sure address verification is done at most once (for your use case, probably not at all). And there would be some things that could be done to arrange that most lists would have sensible defaults. > Yes, I agree, but policy here is to get rid of subdomains, and that > falls on our feet now. Well, once we figure out how to implement domain ownership, it wouldn't be hard to adapt that technology to "departments" that are administratively distinct but share mail and/or web domains. The main problem would be deciding whether and how to nest them. Superuser > domain owner > list owner > moderator is pretty obvious, but how "department owner" would fit in is less so.

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Find a smtp server to send out emails
by Leon March 12, 2025

March 12, 2025

Hi, This problem is not caused by mailman, but I still want to give it a shot here. I'm hosting a mailing list on top of mailman3. Emails are supposed to be sent out by AWS ses. However, ses requires that sender address must be verified, which leads to a problem that emails sent by subscribers to mailing list cannot be sent to other subcirbers, since their addresses are not verified. And it is impossible to verified every subscriber. Are there smtp service providers allowing unverified email address to send out emails, or do I have other solutions? Thanks. -- Best wishes, Leon

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Help! Duplicate DKIM key
by Jose Bernal March 11, 2025

March 11, 2025

Hi all, I'm having *sudden* issues with our SMTP server (Amazon SES) erroring out while trying to send from our most active Mailman3 mailing list (~1,000 subscribers; modest Mailman3 (v 3.3.3) installation (10+ lists, Ubuntu). Here is the message. We've got several thousand log entries like this now: *554 Transaction failed: Duplicate header 'DKIM-Signature'* Mar 10 08:31:10 mail1 postfix/smtp[217753]: 738B53F15E: to=< brian(a)brianmichaelslaw.com>, relay=xxx.org[44.225.xxx.xx]:587, delay=37, delays=2/35/0.16/0.13, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host said: 554 Transaction failed: Duplicate header 'DKIM-Signature'. (in reply to end of DATA command)) As we don't do any DKIM key signing on the related Postfix machine I've opened up a case with Amazon. However, if there is a troubleshooting I should adopt on this issue with regard to Postfix/Mailman I'd like to know what your recommendations are, or what steps I can follow to better help the vendor ensure that this issue isn't coming from either the Postfix machine or the Mailman machine. Much thanks, --------------------- José Bernal Web/Application Engineer

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Re: Postorius Suggestion: Give owner a view of all users of all owned lists
by Andreas Vetter March 11, 2025

March 11, 2025

[Forgot reply to list] ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Thank you Stephen for your questions. I have to admit that I thought about a quick and dirty solution, but you are right, it would not be optimal. Lets see: Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Andreas Vetter writes: > > it would be real great if owners that own several lists, but are > > not superusers, can see all users of all *their* lists and manage > > them. A down-"selected" version of the superusers view. > > > > Would that be possible? > > Possible, yes. I don't know how to do it well enough to add to our > distribution. > > Note that owners can't actually manage users -- that really does need > to be a superuser. Owners can manage subscriptions to the lists they > own. Agreed, "manage subscriptions" is what owners would need. A list of all addresses subscribed to all lists owned by the logged in person. > So first we'd want to create a new "Subscriptions" item for the > top menu; the "Users" item isn't appropriate. I'm not sure who that > item should be visible to. Most likely only owners, because > individuals already have ways to see all their subscriptions, and it's > not obvious they would want the same presentation as your superowners. Owner is the primary target group for that. But since it should be a tool for managing subscriptions in a simple way, it might also be of interest for superusers. For me as a superuser it would make life easier. > Then you'd iterate over the logged-in owner's lists and collect all of > the subscriptions. I guess you'd want them to be organized by address > rather than by list. By User is out, I think -- owners can't normally > see Users, and I'm unhappy abou the privacy implications of being able > to correlate nole(a)alset.com with head(a)dodgy.gov in general, although I > realize it's not a problem in your setting. Ah, I see the problem and agree: So, the presentation should have a sorted and searchable list of addresses and a Button next to each address, maybe labeled "Subscriptions". > Without a more complete specification of what your users need, and the > presentation they'd want to see, I personally am unwilling to go > farther than those comments. Maybe one of the other devs feels > differently. The presentation given when above "Subscriptions" Button is clicked should contain the address as kind of Headline. Then a table of all lists of the logged in owner and next to each mailing list an indication, if the address is subscribed or not and a Button to toggle subscription/unsubscription. May be a single Toggle Button or (maybe better) two buttons, a suscribe and a unsubscribe button, where one is greyed out.b In our case Delivery Status and Delivery Mode are not interesting, but others might appreciate it. In addition my owners would like to have a "unsubscribe from all my lists" button. And a "subscribe to all my lists" button. This might be visually nicer, when having the two-button approach above. In our case we would want to (un-)subscribe the address in a "do it, don't ask anyone" fashion, but maybe this is not a good idea in general. What do you think? > Also, "domain owner" is way under-implemented currently. For the > hierarchical situation you outline, all the problems go away for > domain owners. Of course then you'd need to split out lists by > domain, but to me that's a small cost to preserve sanity in the > structure. Yes, I agree, but policy here is to get rid of subdomains, and that falls on our feet now. -- Mit freundlichen Gruessen, Andreas Vetter

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How to process emails with Mailman3?
by Kyle Lahnakoski March 11, 2025

March 11, 2025

Good day! I am setting up an email list for my local community (just myself right now). Being a nerd, I am using Amazon SES to send and receive emails. I have mailman installed on ec2 (using "pip install mailman") and it is working well enough to send an email to the list with /opt/mailman/venv/bin/mailman inject -f <somefile>all(a)mymaillist.org SES is putting incoming mail into an S3 bucket, one file per email. Using a small python program, I use the above command to send them to the list. When I add a user (like myself) I get a welcome email from all-request(a)mymaillist.org. When I respond, the mail arrives in the S3 bucket, but I do not know how to give it to mailman3. The "inject" command will not work because there is no "all-request" mailing list. How do I feed these administrative mails to mailman3? Thank you. ----- I have tried netcat the email to the ?LMTP? port, but it fails: (venv) [ec2-user@ip-10-0-3-253 mailman]$ nc localhost 8024 < /tmp/pbTw1oqmV1rZtHXV707Jcov264hr 220 ip-10-0-3-253.ec2.internal GNU Mailman LMTP runner 2.0 500 Error: command "RECEIVED-SPF:" not recognized 500 Error: command "AUTHENTICATION-RESULTS:" not recognized 500 Error: command "" not recognized 500 Error: command "" not recognized 502 5.5.1 Too many unrecognized commands, goodbye. here is what the first few lines of an email file look like. (Some values have been changed) Received-SPF: pass (spfCheck: domain of lahnakoski.com designates 8.8.8.8 as permitted sender) client-ip=8.8.8.8;envelope-from=kyle(a)lahnakoski.com; helo=cichlid.ash.relay.mailchannels.net; Authentication-Results: amazonses.com; spf=pass (spfCheck: domain of lahnakoski.com designates 8.8.8.8 as permitted sender) client-ip=8.8.8.8;envelope-from=kyle(a)lahnakoski.com; helo=cichlid.ash.relay.mailchannels.net; dkim=failheader.i=(a)lahnakoski.com; dmarc=none header.from=lahnakoski.com; Return-Path:<kyle(a)lahnakoski.com> Received: from cichlid.ash.relay.mailchannels.net (cichlid.ash.relay.mailchannels.net [8.8.8.8]) by fips.wmjb.mail-manager-smtp.amazonaws.com with ESMTPS id p78l98r6nfp05h5lbb24phnsrovpcomu57smml81 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) for<all-request(a)mymaillist.org>; Sun, 09 Mar 2025 15:13:30 +0000 (UTC) ...

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Moderation of held emails vs. spam
by David Krantz March 11, 2025

March 11, 2025

Hi, I now run Mailman 3.3.1, installed from pip. Is there now any way to prevent Mailman from forwarding the contents of the held message when notifying moderators of held messages? In my case these messages often are spam messages and if the entire contents are forwarded it triggers spam handling in the recipient address(es) which over time risks classifying all moderation emails as spam or even classifying the list domain or server as a spam source. Even my own outgoing filter classifies it as spam, which I will fix. I currently run rspamd for spam filtering, graylisting and DKIM and ARC verification/signing. Someone on this recommended it, thank you for that as it removes the need for other milters. I guess that this would be a simple change to make as a kludge but a proper implementation as a setting would be a lot better. I'd like it as a global setting but that might be too coarse. Cheers // David

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Postorius Suggestion: Give owner a view of all users of all owned lists
by Andreas Vetter March 10, 2025

March 10, 2025

Hi, it would be real great if owners that own several lists, but are not superusers, can see all users of all *their* lists and manage them. A down-"selected" version of the superusers view. Use case is an organisation (here are the superusers) with sub-organisations (here are the owners, e.g finance, research, production) having lists for the very sub-org itself and its sub-sub-orgs (e.g. research-all, research-solar, research-wind, research-battery). Would that be possible? -- Mit freundlichen Gruessen, Andreas Vetter

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Bad Request 400 error with nginx/uwsgi install of venv
by zachr＠mta.ca March 10, 2025

March 10, 2025

Hello, and thanks in advance for any assistance. I followed the installation guide at: https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html# I opted to use nginx and uwsgi. I can access mailman in the browser at https://SERVER_IP/mailman3 but when I try to use the hostname I get an nginx 400 bad request error. It seems like there is an issue with the nginx proxy. I used the example config and updated the required information: --------------------- server { listen 443 ssl default_server; listen [::]:443 ssl default_server; server_name HOSTNAME_OF_SERVER; location /static/ { alias /opt/mailman/web/static/; } location / { proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:8000; proxy_set_header Host $host; proxy_set_header X-Forwarded-For $remote_addr; } ssl_certificate /etc/pki/tls/certs/our_certificate.crt; ssl_certificate_key /etc/pki/tls/private/our_key.key; } --------------------- I thought maybe that because Im using uwsgi I should try the ngx_http_uwsgi_module and uwsgi_params in the nginx config, but that did not work, or I didnt use the correct syntax. Not sure what to try next!

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Migration of the e-mail templates
by Markus Grandpré March 6, 2025

March 6, 2025

Dear list, When migrating the lists and archives from Mailman 2.1 to Mailman 3, the e-mail templates were obviously not migrated. Is there a way to make up for this? Kind regards, Markus Grandpré -- Markus Grandpré Universität Konstanz Kommunikations-, Informations-, Medienzentrum (KIM) Abteilung IT-Dienste Forschung, Lehre und Infrastruktur, Tel: ++49 7531 88 4342

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Bug Report - REST API
by Peter Knowles March 6, 2025

March 6, 2025

OS: Debian 12 Mailman Core: 3.3.10 Install Method: venv When I apply the "count" and/or "page" param on: /3.1/lists/name.sub.domain.tld/requests This resulted in a "404 Not Found" error from the REST API. If I remove the params, the API returns results. From what I read in the docs, pagination should be possible on this type of endpoint as it returns "entries", "start" and "total_size". Tests against: /3.1/domains /3.1/lists Works fine with the "count" and "page" param as expected.

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