November 2019 - Mailman-users - lists.mailman3.org

Mailman shell tutorial
by andrew.bernard＠gmail.com Jan. 15, 2020

Jan. 15, 2020

is there a tutorial or some examples for using the mailman shell? Is there detailed documentation on it? Anything I try to do such as the following fails: $ mailman shell Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell >>> command('mailman shell --details') Traceback (most recent call last): File "<console>", line 1, in <module> NameError: name 'command' is not defined >>> I execute the shell as user mailman and from within the same venv that all the programs run under.

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Default values for new lists
by Sten Aus Jan. 11, 2020

Jan. 11, 2020

Hi I haven't found out where I could choose or edit default list values (when creating new list). For example I would like that all new lists would be with *private archive* (and change this when it is needed). This is great that I can choose not to advertise list in Index (which I can choose from list creation interface) but I would like to choose other options too. Right now only solution is to create list and then choose Archiving and then select "private archives". Another thing is that I would like to choose default subscription policy to "Moderate". If anyone has encountered this problem, let me know! All the best Sten

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MM3 shunting mails
by Anders Nilsson Jan. 3, 2020

Jan. 3, 2020

I'm running a Mailman 3.1.0 installation on a CentOS 7 machine. Using RPMs from https://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/abompard/hyperkitty/el-7/x86_64/ I do have problems with some lists occasionally going into some kind of shunt mode, where alla mails sent to them gets shunted. In the Mailman log I get entries for each shunted email: Mar 17 11:54:11 2017 (6217) Uncaught runner exception: Multiple rows were found for one_or_none() Mar 17 11:54:11 2017 (6217) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/python3.4/site-packages/mailman/core/runner.py", line 171, in _one_iteration self._process_one_file(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/lib/python3.4/site-packages/mailman/core/runner.py", line 264, in _process_one_file keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/lib/python3.4/site-packages/mailman/runners/pipeline.py", line 37, in _dispose process(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline) File "/usr/lib/python3.4/site-packages/mailman/core/pipelines.py", line 53, in process handler.process(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/lib/python3.4/site-packages/mailman/handlers/rfc_2369.py", line 121, in process process(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/lib/python3.4/site-packages/mailman/handlers/rfc_2369.py", line 70, in process archiver_set = IListArchiverSet(mlist) File "/usr/lib/python3.4/site-packages/zope/component/hookable.py", line 33, in __call__ return self.__implementation(*args, **kw) File "/usr/lib/python3.4/site-packages/zope/component/_api.py", line 156, in adapter_hook return sitemanager.queryAdapter(object, interface, name, default) File "/usr/lib64/python3.4/site-packages/zope/interface/registry.py", line 348, in queryAdapter return self.adapters.queryAdapter(object, interface, name, default) File "/usr/lib/python3.4/site-packages/mailman/database/transaction.py", line 85, in wrapper return function(args[0], config.db.store, *args[1:], **kws) File "/usr/lib/python3.4/site-packages/mailman/model/mailinglist.py", line 607, in __init__ ListArchiver.name == archiver_name).one_or_none() File "/usr/lib64/python3.4/site-packages/sqlalchemy/orm/query.py", line 2733, in one_or_none "Multiple rows were found for one_or_none()") sqlalchemy.orm.exc.MultipleResultsFound: Multiple rows were found for one_or_none() Mar 17 11:54:11 2017 (6217) SHUNTING: 1489748051.1949184+7a59df19c81493cb419306d620376efc0e381819 And so far my Google-fu hasn't been good enough to give me any useful answers to why this happens. If I dump one of the pickles using qfile I cannot see any complaints. Most of the times, if I remove and recreate a failing list and run unshunt the shunted emails get processed and sent. Anyone seen something similar? Regards, Anders Nilsson -- Anders Nilsson, Ph.D. <andersn(a)control.lth.se> Dep. of Automatic Control, Lund University Phone: +46 (0)46 222 87 94, Fax: +46 (0)46 13 81 18 Mob: +46 (0)703 22 57 67

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bounces with empty message-id
by Peter Münster Dec. 12, 2019

Dec. 12, 2019

Hi, It seems, that mailman bounces the bounces, so that the list-owner never sees them: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- postfix/smtpd[12002]: connect from out04.smtpout.orange.fr[193.252.22.213] postfix/smtpd[12002]: 879D6F12E8: client=out04.smtpout.orange.fr[193.252.22.213] postfix/cleanup[11841]: 879D6F12E8: message-id=<> postfix/qmgr[10092]: 879D6F12E8: from=<>, size=4048, nrcpt=1 (queue active) postfix/smtpd[12002]: disconnect from out04.smtpout.orange.fr[193.252.22.213] ehlo=1 mail=1 rcpt=1 data=1 quit=1 commands=5 postfix/lmtp[11846]: 879D6F12E8: to=<test-bounces(a)my-domain.org>, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:8024, delay=0.05, delays=0.04/0/0/0.01, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host 127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1] said: 550 No Message-ID header provided (in reply to end of DATA command)) postfix/qmgr[10092]: 879D6F12E8: removed --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- What could I do please, to get the bounces? I would like to use VERP to identify wrong addresses... TIA for any hints, -- Peter

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Default moderation for new members
by Seth Seeger Dec. 11, 2019

Dec. 11, 2019

Hello everyone, I’m loving Mailman3 so far! Great work on it. I’d like to have new members who join my lists have their posting ability set to moderated. (After their first legitimate post, they would set to be unmoderated.) I haven’t been able to find this, though I’m suspecting the language has changed. Thanks, Seth

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Source Installation Assistance
by Brian Carpenter Dec. 6, 2019

Dec. 6, 2019

I am trying to install Mailman 3 from source using: https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/index.html My first question is where is the best place to get assistance or ask questions regarding the installation process? I am not sure if mailman-users is that place anymore. Thanks, Brian

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Changelog and/or Release Notes
by Brian Carpenter Nov. 28, 2019

Nov. 28, 2019

Now that I am using Mailman 3.3, where can I find the release notes and/or changelog for core, postorius and hyperkitty under Mailman 3.3? Thanks! Brian

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 Ready?
by Stephen J. Turnbull Nov. 27, 2019

Nov. 27, 2019

Allan Hansen writes: > What is the best, easiest, guaranteed-to-work way to get this > Mailman 3 up and running (OS, add-ons, options, etc.). When I tried > myself, I saw a lot of options that I really did not really care to > have because I did not know the consequences of each. I’m an > application programmer, not a systems programmer. It's email, there are no guarantees. I hate to say that, but that's the way it is. In particular, I'm concerned about the "iRedMail" integration, which may be a complete wildcard from my point of view. With respect to the relevant iRedMail components, I can say that Mailman 3 is perfectly happy with Postfix as MTA (it's the recommended configuration, although I use Exim4 for historical reasons), and I've been satisfied with a small-scale set of lists (about 10 active ones, with at most 20 subscribers total) using Apache+mod_swgi to host Postorius and HyperKitty. The problem would be if your friend (is that the Frank in the CC? hi, Frank!) really really wants to manage Mailman 3 through iRedAdmin -- that will get messy I suspect, and pragmatically speaking, we can't support it, we don't have the cycles. So he'd be on his own, especially since the iRedMail folks have their own bespoke mailing list manager. I would recommend avoiding iRedAdmin integration, and just using Postorius since the subscribers and non-site-admin moderators (if any) will need to use Postorius anyway. Ignoring the iRedAdmin issue, the absolute simplest is 1. Install any Linux distribution with a Docker package. 2. Install the distribution's Docker package. 3. Download and install Mailman Project's Mailman 3 container. 4. Upgrade the container manually (ie, download and reinstall) as appropriate. For reference, what I would recommend to my friends, who would give me hands-on access in emergencies: 1. Install the Debian distribution. (What I use.) 2. Pin the Mailman 3 packages to "experimental". The idea would be to get Mailman 3 upgrades as fast as possible, even at the risk of packaging issues. (My experience with default-to-experimental system for several years was that this happened at most once a year, and the three or four cases all got fixed within days.) 3. Install the Mailman 3 packages. 4. Adjust any dependencies that need non-"stable" versions. 5. Upgrade via apt or whatever occasionally. 6. When Mailman 3 is working well, downgrade the pins to a more stable level. Since you do have such a friend, there's probably a similar process that works for his distribution-of-choice. > The problem is that my MacOS users are getting tripped up by the > mangling, as it is hidden by the mail clients. I have instructed > them to remove previous recipients regularly from the list of such, > if they contain the ‘via list’ string. But they don’t read my > emails, and we see many embarrassing email ssent to the lists that > are meant for one-on-one communication. I guess we could provide a setting where reply-to goes *only* to author, instead of to author *and* list as we currently recommend. But that is going to make you (or list owners) the focus of user ire because their intended replies to list go only to author. What do you think? tl;dr The rest is me blowing off steam. :-) > The fact that the mangling will continue is a disappointment. It's a disappointment to the sane people at the IETF, too, including the rep from Yahoo!, who's a very smart lady (I may be biased, she gave me a kitten once. ;-) Yahoo! is violating the original concept (DMARC "p=reject" was supposed to be used *only* for "transactional" mail, i.e., direct private communication between a business and its clients), but I see her point: when you've had a hundred million or so address books hacked and sold to spammers, and the spammers are sending literally millions of "recommendation from a friend" spams per hour for days on end, you use the tools to hand. > I’m inclined to tell all my AOL and Yahoo users and others in the same > boat to find another email service. I know the feeling. I'm lucky in that respect: the Ministry of Education prohibits use of yahoo mailboxes at Japanese universities. (Which is a WTF of a different kind: yahoo.co.jp is a franchise, not controlled by yahoo.com, and doesn't use p=reject at least at the time MoE issued that policy.) Mail is just hard. It was designed for a "friendly network of users", not for today's rather hostile open Internet, and even if they had envisioned this in the 70s when the message format and SMTP mail transmission protocol were designed, the fundamental problem is that pretty much everyone has a genuine need, even if only occasional, to receive messages from untrusted and even unknown senders.

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Setting up From: field as list address
by Steven Maddox Nov. 25, 2019

Nov. 25, 2019

Hi folks, I'm trying to configure our mailman3 lists (via postorious) in a way that'll mean they'll behave in the way way that I've witnessed on another 3rd party list (one running mailman2). This is where (when receiving a message from the list) the From: is the list itself, and the person who actually sent it bizarrely appears as a CC:, for example... From: Steven Madox via Shropshire LUG <shropshire(a)mailman.lug.org.uk> Subject: [Shropshire LUG] Whatever To: shropshire(a)mailman.lug.org.uk CC: s.maddox(a)lantizia.me.uk At the moment our settings are the default/recommended... I *was* just going to set munging to 'Reply goes to list' which would just set a 'Reply-To' header... until I realised that... a) that won't help Thunderbird users as it just ignores Reply-To if it came from a list b) doesn't fix the issue with people having their own SPF/DKIM set on their mail domains So ultimately I'm starting to see why this 3rd party mailing list (another linux user group, a neighbouring one just south of us) does it this way... if anyone knows the mailman3 equivalent setting? p.s. I've read both the mailman2 and 3 notes related to why munging is not recommended, but I'd still like to know how this is done - to keep our options open more than anything. -- Steven Maddox Lantizia

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[Mailman-Users] Mailman 3 Ready?
by Stephen J. Turnbull Nov. 25, 2019

Nov. 25, 2019

Reply-To set to mailman-users(a)mailman3.org. Allan Hansen writes: > I need to upgrade from Mailman 2.1 - my hardware needs upgrading > (badly) and the address mangling is having my subscribers rip their > hair out. That's not going to go away. We have ARC support in Mailman 3, but (a) like most envelope manipulation, that should be done in boundary MTAs, not in Mailman, and (b) ARC implementation is not universal. *Very likely* some of your subscribers are going to lose mail if you depend on ARC, rather than munge from. > I need to get this done before they start on my already thinning > hair! I sympathize. I tell the little kids I meet that my hair grows out of the bottom of my face, not the top (it's very alliterative in Japanese[1], the kids frequently don't get it but the accompanying adults usually laugh). > I’m ready and eager to move on to MM3 on a Linux box. The obvious "turn-key" installation is to use the Docker containers, which Abhilash keeps fairly up-to-date. But see comment below about universal working solutions. Which distro do you have? Are you using the distro's packages of Mailman 3 (not yet a good idea, unfortunately), or installing from source? > I have looked into it a few times now and I keep running into the > same blocks. I don't see much moving either. I was hoping someone > (Mailman developing community) would come up with a better working > solution. It's email. There are no universal working solutions. > [Some third party wrote:] My concern is that the Mailman3 is not > ready. There are too many dead ends and undocumented stuff. Who is this guy and has he consulted us? I'd like to do an archive search if he's done so to see what the issues are. > For Mailman2 I have a working integration with iRedMail, that does > not seem to work with 3. What's iRedMail? How does it fit into the community your lists serve? > So, is MM3 ready for the big screen? Works for us, for values of us including python.org. > If so, is there some way/how/where/when that my friend can get help > helping me with the installation other than the published > installation docs, which did not work for us? mailman-users(a)mailman3.org is the Mailman 3 version of this list. If your friend is the type to get his hands dirty with code, and has the time for development activity, mailman-developers(a)python.org would also be useful. You might be better off getting bids from consultants. There's a page listing them on wiki.list.org. > I have looked for both free and commercial alternatives to MM, There are sites that support MM commercially. I think the prices are reasonable, of course YMMV on that. Again, there's a page for those services on wiki.list.org. Footnotes: [1] "hage dakara hige o" -- the vowels are pronounced as Spanish or Italian, the consonants as in English.

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