Now that we are on mailman3, I'm finding things that were really useful in mailman2 are completely missing in mailman3, which seems odd, since they in particular affect the ability of list moderators to do their job well.
a) When a post was made to a moderated list in mailman2, I would get an email that included a LINK to the held email. Now I just get a canned email saying I need to go to the dashboard, blah blah. Why was this link removed? It was extremely useful and now I have to jump through extra hoops.
b) When a post is made to a moderated list in mailman2, when I went to the page to approve/deny/discard, there was additionally an option to remove the moderated flag from the user for all future emails. This option no longer exists. This was EXTREMELY useful, as we force all new members of the list to be moderated for a time while we evaluate the quality of their postings. Now I have to go manually track down the user and their settings. Unnecessary extra hoops to jump through
c) When a post is made to a moderated list, one of the options when selecting REJECT was it allowed me to set a custom message when rejecting the email. This was extremely useful. For example today, someone emailed our bug tracking list directly instead of filing a bug. In the past, I would have added a note to them about what they should do (in this case, I would have told them to send their email to our community technical discussion list). Now I can no longer do that, I can only reject it or discard it. Why was this removed?
--Quanah
--
Quanah Gibson-Mount Product Architect Symas Corporation Packaged, certified, and supported LDAP solutions powered by OpenLDAP: <http://www.symas.com>
On 3/17/20 8:58 AM, Quanah Gibson-Mount wrote:
Now that we are on mailman3, I'm finding things that were really useful in mailman2 are completely missing in mailman3, which seems odd, since they in particular affect the ability of list moderators to do their job well.
a) When a post was made to a moderated list in mailman2, I would get an email that included a LINK to the held email. Now I just get a canned email saying I need to go to the dashboard, blah blah. Why was this link removed? It was extremely useful and now I have to jump through extra hoops.
The message comes from Mailman core. Mailman core does not know what web management UI you are using or the URI to access it. You need to change the template for the message to include the URL. E.g. on this iist, in var/templates/sitr/en/list\:admin\:action\:post.txt we have
As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the following mailing list posting:
List: $listname
From: $sender_email
Subject: $subjectThe message is being held because:
$reasons
At your convenience, visit https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/$list_id/held_messages to approve or deny the request.
b) When a post is made to a moderated list in mailman2, when I went to the page to approve/deny/discard, there was additionally an option to remove the moderated flag from the user for all future emails. This option no longer exists. This was EXTREMELY useful, as we force all new members of the list to be moderated for a time while we evaluate the quality of their postings. Now I have to go manually track down the user and their settings. Unnecessary extra hoops to jump through
Click on the subject in the held messages list. At the bottom of the dialog that opens, there is a drop down to set the user's moderation. Normally, you would set it to 'default processing'.
c) When a post is made to a moderated list, one of the options when selecting REJECT was it allowed me to set a custom message when rejecting the email. This was extremely useful. For example today, someone emailed our bug tracking list directly instead of filing a bug. In the past, I would have added a note to them about what they should do (in this case, I would have told them to send their email to our community technical discussion list). Now I can no longer do that, I can only reject it or discard it. Why was this removed?
This was not "removed". It just hasn't been implemented in MM 3 yet. See, e.g., <https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/issues/368> and <https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/issues/368>.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Hi Mark,
--On Tuesday, March 17, 2020 1:43 PM -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> wrote:
The message comes from Mailman core. Mailman core does not know what web management UI you are using or the URI to access it. You need to change the template for the message to include the URL.
Ok great, thank you!.
b) When a post is made to a moderated list in mailman2, when I went to the page to approve/deny/discard, there was additionally an option to remove the moderated flag from the user for all future emails. This option no longer exists. This was EXTREMELY useful, as we force all new members of the list to be moderated for a time while we evaluate the quality of their postings. Now I have to go manually track down the user and their settings. Unnecessary extra hoops to jump through
Click on the subject in the held messages list. At the bottom of the dialog that opens, there is a drop down to set the user's moderation. Normally, you would set it to 'default processing'.
I do not see any such option. After clicking on the header the only options available at the bottom are:
Accept, Reject, Discard, Show Source, Show Header
There are zero drop downs anywhere.
This was not "removed". It just hasn't been implemented in MM 3 yet.
So in terms of available functionality that was present in MM2, it was removed. It may need to be re-implemented, but this was a core feature that was present in the prior version that is no longer available.
--Quasnah
--
Quanah Gibson-Mount Product Architect Symas Corporation Packaged, certified, and supported LDAP solutions powered by OpenLDAP: <http://www.symas.com>
On 3/17/20 1:59 PM, Quanah Gibson-Mount wrote:
Click on the subject in the held messages list. At the bottom of the dialog that opens, there is a drop down to set the user's moderation. Normally, you would set it to 'default processing'.
I do not see any such option. After clicking on the header the only options available at the bottom are:
Accept, Reject, Discard, Show Source, Show Header
There are zero drop downs anywhere.
This was implemented by <https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/merge_requests/397> and released in Postorius 1.3.0.
This was not "removed". It just hasn't been implemented in MM 3 yet.
So in terms of available functionality that was present in MM2, it was removed. It may need to be re-implemented, but this was a core feature that was present in the prior version that is no longer available.
Yes, we are aware of many things that are not yet exposed/implemented in Postorius and elsewhere. There are currently 580 open issues at <https://gitlab.com/groups/mailman/-/issues>. We are working on these things as we can. We would love to have your help in fixing these. In the mean time, there are really only 2 or 3 core developers working on this and we are all volunteers, so it takes time.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
--On Wednesday, March 18, 2020 2:58 AM -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> wrote:
This was implemented by <https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/merge_requests/397> and released in Postorius 1.3.0.
Ok, that would be the issue... Debian 10 only has 1.2.4-1 bundled. I'll see if I can find a backport for 1.3.
This was not "removed". It just hasn't been implemented in MM 3 yet.
So in terms of available functionality that was present in MM2, it was removed. It may need to be re-implemented, but this was a core feature that was present in the prior version that is no longer available.
Yes, we are aware of many things that are not yet exposed/implemented in Postorius and elsewhere. There are currently 580 open issues at <https://gitlab.com/groups/mailman/-/issues>. We are working on these things as we can. We would love to have your help in fixing these. In the mean time, there are really only 2 or 3 core developers working on this and we are all volunteers, so it takes time.
I fully understand and would love to contribute. The problem being that I already am doing this for multiple other projects where we're facing the same issue -- Lots of people use the software and there are the occasional contributions, but few people who are willing to be core members to really help drive the projects, and I can only drive so many and do my paying job. :/
Regards, Quanah
--
Quanah Gibson-Mount Product Architect Symas Corporation Packaged, certified, and supported LDAP solutions powered by OpenLDAP: <http://www.symas.com>
On 3/18/20 11:10 AM, Quanah Gibson-Mount wrote:
We are working on these things as we can. We would love to have your help in fixing these. In the mean time, there are really only 2 or 3 core developers working on this and we are all volunteers, so it takes time.
I fully understand and would love to contribute. The problem being that I already am doing this for multiple other projects where we're facing the same issue -- Lots of people use the software and there are the occasional contributions, but few people who are willing to be core members to really help drive the projects, and I can only drive so many and do my paying job. :
Maybe this non-profit foundation could help MM3? It's helping pcb-rnd now... It seems like well documented to do lists are what they like to fund --> "I am announcing a great news that is going to change pcb-rnd development, advancing it to the next level: with the help of NLnet, through the NGI0 PET fund, main pcb-rnd feature development is fully covered for a long time financially."
John Griessen writes:
Maybe this non-profit foundation could help MM3? It's helping pcb-rnd now... It seems like well documented to do lists are what they like to fund --> "I am announcing a great news that is going to change pcb-rnd development, advancing it to the next level: with the help of NLnet, through the NGI0 PET fund, main pcb-rnd feature development is fully covered for a long time financially."
Thank you for the suggestion, and the reference to the fund. I've made a note of it.
Things is, right now funding isn't a problem, it's much more people. We have always gotten all the Google Summer of Code students we ask for, for example, but this year we ended up bailing out of GSoC for lack of mentoring time. None of the core people are in a position to do more work if we got paid.
If there are consultants out there who use Mailman, are somewhat familiar with its internals or are experienced Python programmers (preferably with knowledge of zope components like Interface), and would be able to provide time for money but not without pay, feel free to speak up, maybe there's a deal to be made, if you can contribute enough time to make the pitch. But soliciting money, soliciting bids, etc, all takes time for the Mailman core devs who have very little right now, and honestly, it's not work we enjoy. Even mentoring new devs (even if they'll probably disappear as some GSoC interns do :-), which several of us do enjoy, isn't really in the cards right now.
Steve
On Mar 23, 2020, at 6:04 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <turnbull.stephen.fw@u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote:
Things is, right now funding isn't a problem, it's much more people. We have always gotten all the Google Summer of Code students we ask for, for example, but this year we ended up bailing out of GSoC for lack of mentoring time. None of the core people are in a position to do more work if we got paid.
Would hiring a full-time dev dedicated to MM3 be possible?
Just thinking out loud here.
- Mark
mark@pdc-racing.net | 408-348-2878
Mark Dadgar writes:
Would hiring a full-time dev dedicated to MM3 be possible?
To be honest, I don't see how. The money is a small issue, although we'd easily be into 6 figures when all is said and done -- I believe that we could find the money for fundamental Internet infrastructure (I am not joking: much of the IETF itself runs on Mailman). I'm old enough to remember[1] the fiasco when Stallman hired a dev for Emacs and gave him the mushroom treatment. Did not work out well.[2] ;-)
The problem is not contract labor effort; it's management effort (design, prioritization, knowledge of the user base) and mentoring effort (conveying enough of that to the new hire that they can work mostly independently).
Footnotes: [1] This is not the "old enough to remember ..." Twitter meme, this is aged and wizened. And portly, but let's not mention that.
[2] This was before Linux, Stallman was busier than a cat with 3 laser pointers trying to bootstrap the GNU System.
Am 17.03.20 um 16:58 schrieb Quanah Gibson-Mount:
a) When a post was made to a moderated list in mailman2, I would get an email that included a LINK to the held email. Now I just get a canned email saying I need to go to the dashboard, blah blah. Why was this link removed? It was extremely useful and now I have to jump through extra hoops.
you can simply edit the respective template and add the url to held_messages.
For example,
/var/lib/mailman3/templates/domains/[listname]/[language]/list:admin:action:post.txt
looks like: (version in /de/ directory:
Ihre Einwilligung als Administrator*in ist für folgende Nachricht and die Mailingliste nötig:
Liste: $listname Absender: $sender_email Betreff: $subject
Die Nachricht wurde aus folgenden Gründen zurückgehalten:
$reasons
Besuchen Sie die Administrations-Seiten, um die Nachricht anzunehmen oder abzulehnen.
Bitte besuchen Sie bei Gelegenheit https://mymailmandomain.world/mailman3/postorius/lists/$list_id/held_message...
participants (6)
-
John Griessen -
Jörg Michael Schulz -
Mark Dadgar -
Mark Sapiro -
Quanah Gibson-Mount -
Stephen J. Turnbull