Search results for "dO" - lists.mailman3.org

[MM3-users] Re: Archives with encoding characters

by Mark Dadgar

I see this a lot too. I cannot confirm 100%, but anecdotally they all seem to be Mac Mail users. - Mark ----- mark(a)pdc-racing.net | 408-348-2878 > On Mar 4, 2020, at 9:56 AM, Seth Seeger <seth(a)tofutavern.com> wrote: > > I should add that they are both on Plain Text Digests. (People seemed to be unhappy with MIME digests, because they had to double click on each email to open it up. You couldn't just scroll through a long email.) > > Seth > > On Wed, Mar 4, 2020, at 4:55 PM, Seth Seeger wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> >> I have a few (but not all) members complaining that their digests are >> full of coded characters. Two examples below were forwarded to me: >> >>> What I ended up doing was creating 2 "practice lines" in the centre of=20 >>> our big teaching circle (I always teach new figures in a big circle) -=20 >>> which each had 3 people set up in a line with generous space between,=20 >>> and first=C2=A0 I walked through one of those lines myself starting first= >>> =20 >> >> and >> >>> Robins pass Right=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Larks Loop L= >>> eft >> >> What is the cause? Is there anything I can do about it? >> >> Thanks, >> Seth > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/

6 years

[MM3-users] Re: Member Issue Discovered

by Brian Carpenter

On 10/21/20 4:43 AM, Jörg Schulz wrote: > So, the issue seems to be, like in the following scenario > > We imagine a list server for the domains fruiteaters and meateaters. > We have two listadmins, anna (fruit) and carl (meat). They don't share anything. > We have a user who subscribes to fruiteaters and meateaters using his addresshunger(a)eatall.com > > He wants to show up in the fruiteaters list as fullname wormy wonder, but in the meateaters list as fritz the cat. > While he can do so using two different email addresses, he cannot do so using > > wormy wonder<hunger(a)eatall.com> > fritz the cat<hunger(a)eatall.com> > > as from: addresses because all requests will be matched to the one email address. > > Worse, if Carl would be able to change the name to from wormy wonder to fritz the cat, Anna would see that name change and like to change it back because the user she had known, user has been identified as wormy wonder. > > So, if these user properties are stored somewhere not related to the lists, we don't seem to have a chance of display name changes by list admins as long as the data model isn't changed. This doesn't seem to be easy. > > So, only some kind of super-Admin should currently be able to change these display names, and these changes would be visible for all lists, and one email address can only have one display name for all lists. > > Not optimal for some rare conditions - that's the way it seems to be??? You should add that the name can't be changed at all nor ever removed. -- Brian Carpenter Harmonylists.com Emwd.com

5 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Bounce handling after upgrade

by Mark Sapiro

On 7/8/20 6:05 AM, David Krantz wrote: > > To my surprise mailman core started by sending tens of mails and > blocking the corresponding users for very old bounces. What is worse > is that this happens every time I start mailman core. Now I have > blocked (almost) all outgoing mail in postfix using a transport map > which discards it but this is a temporary testing measure of course. Sorry about that. Yes this is an issue when first upgrading from a prior version to 3.3.1, there are lots of old unprocessed bounce events which all of a sudden get processed. See below for solutions. > When I deploy this server into production, I do not want these > recipients to be blocked as the old problems have been solved since > very long. My plan is to reload the database from a newer backup > anyway... Would it be enough to empty the bounce table (bounceevent) > or is there anything else driving this behaviour? Or is there a better > way to do this via the mailman shell? For me a "delete from > bounceevent" seems a lot simpler than anything via the shell but there > may be dependencies in the database. You are on the right track. The "delete from bounceevent" is a perfectly acceptable solution. So is "update bounceevent set processed = true". Another way to deal with this is to set [mta] verp_probes: yes in mailman.cfg. This will still send a lot of probe messages which may be undesirable, but if the probes don't bounce, the user's delivery won't be disabled. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Issues with Mail delivery after Mailman 3 installation

by Chihurumnaya Ibiam

Yes, I did specify the other ports needed in the necessary configurations. You're right about "localhost" causing confusion, I switched to using the IP address instead, the logs showed that Mailman tried to connect on [::1] and there wasn't a response, that might be from Mailman itself though as the port is open. I don't have a preference for IPv6. -- Ibiam Chihurumnaya ibiamchihurumnaya(a)gmail.com On Mon, Feb 2, 2026 at 4:44 PM Stephen J. Turnbull <steve(a)turnbull.jp> wrote: > Ibiam Chihurumnaya via Mailman-users writes: > > > I do have both inet_interfaces and inet_protocols set to all. > > Note that that is just for Postfix. You also need to specify where > Dovecot and Mailman are listening in their own configurations. > > I suspect that Postfix will prefer IPv6 if available, so using > "localhost" as the Mailman host may cause confusion. Use the IP > address instead. If you specify the Mailman host as 127.0.0.1, I'm > pretty sure that will work fine, as Mailman will listen on the > specified port via IPv4, and the Postfix routing tables will be > created with 127.0.0.1 and the specified port. > > I don't know if Mailman will do the right thing if you specify [::1]; > as far as I know we have never checked that Mailman is IPv6-clean, > although the underlying Python libraries probably are. > > If you have a preference for IPv6, we can discuss that after getting > everything working with the well-tested IPv4 configuration. > > -- > GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) > Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ > Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan >

1 month

[MM3-users] Re: List rename

by Abhilash Raj

On Wed, Sep 25, 2019, at 9:04 AM, Joel Lord wrote: > I'm in an odd situation where I need to rename a bunch of lists. They > were all created on mailman2 originally and migrated to mailman3 (very > successfully, TYVM) but the names were all originally > discuss-<foo>@domain and it's very confusing to be sure you're always > sending to the correct <foo>. We want to completely rename the lists to > <foo>-discuss@domain. > > These lists do not keep archives, so if I have to resort to extracting > the subscriber lists and the configs and building new lists, I'm > completely fine with that. Problem is, I'm really used to MM2 and > config_list and could do this without thinking using those tools... that > I don't have. > > Running MM3 3.2.2 trying to make this happen. Any assistance I could > get will be greatly appreciated. There isn't any way yet that allows renaming a list, not sure how hard would that be to achieve that. In theory, it should be easy since most places should be using list-id (which wouldn't change if you were to rename a list, as the RFC2919 says), but there might be a few places which are still using the posting-address as the identifier and might need change. I wouldn't mind a command or an API to modify the list's posting address. > > THANKS! > > -- > Joel Lord > Web Administrator, Alpha Psi Omega Grand Cast > etc... etc... etc... > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

6 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Postorius Suggestion: Give owner a view of all users of all owned lists

by Andreas Vetter

Stephen, after thinking a lot about it, I came up with this. Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Andreas Vetter writes: > > A list of all addresses subscribed to all lists owned by the logged > > in person. > > This is starting to take a better form. It's still very specialized, > so I'm starting to wonder if trying to add it to Postorius is a great > idea. Of course if people are coming in over the network, you don't > want to reproduce all the authentication and authorization logic > implemented in Django and Postorius. That may as well be done in > Django, and if you're doing Django it may as well be Postorius too. > > But if you're in a single sign-on environment so presence in the > network implies strong authentication, you will get more flexibility > from local scripts using mailmanclient, or if you're confident in > security access to the REST API directly. Just putting that out for > your consideration, since implementing what is taking shape here would > take quite some time as the folks skilled with Postorius are not so > active these days. I agree, this is very special. In our case we will cook it down to a very special solution providing owners with the info they need. Based on that, they can use the unchanged postorius for (un-)subscribing. > > Owner is the primary target group for that. But since it should be > > a tool for managing subscriptions in a simple way, it might also be > > of interest for superusers. For me as a superuser it would make > > life easier. > > [...] > > > Ah, I see the problem and agree: So, the presentation should have a > > sorted and searchable list of addresses and a Button next to each > > address, maybe labeled "Subscriptions". > > Looking at your description above, for superusers that is basically > the Users tab, though. Users are identified by primary address, and > you'd not see alternate addresses in the list. But presumably your > internal users use their @your.org addresses as primary. Can you make > clear what could be more streamlined for your use cases as superuser? > I give one example below, maybe that's what you're mostly interested > in. > > The caveats about access to User objects still apply for owners, so > even if they look the same (which is a good UX idea if owner > functionality is a subset of superuser functionality, also they might > even be able to share the basic page templates), the implementation is > going to be rather different. I suspect you superusers would be quite > frustrated if using the "subscribe all these lists" functionality > meant you couldn't get at the User object without going to a different > page. > > I do see one weird thing: you can't manipulate subscription itself > from the User page as seen by the superuser from that list, only > toggle moderation and delivery mode. I guess that's reasonable for a > lot of use cases, though. I've never wanted to do a subscribe or > unsubscribe from there. I always have a long list of users to > subscribe to specific lists, never a list of lists a specific user > should belong to, We have a list for almost every working group and have scripts reading members from there and putting them together in the higher level lists. People can be in more than one working group list. Users come, stay some years and go, so mass (un-)subscription is used for single addresses usually. But if the owner forgets to delete someone from a list, the person is still in one of the higher "automatic" lists. So an overview would have been nice. The "(un-)subscribe all" buttons are not really needed in our use case. We run about 300 lists. For a superuser this is a lot, given the fact there is no filtering in the table of lists. A owner wants to see in an address view all his lists. A superuser does not, because it would be too much unrelevant information (e.g all 200 research lists, when user is in finance). As a superuser I could need in the users view: - clicking on a list name to manage the list - unsubscribe button > > The presentation given when above "Subscriptions" Button is clicked > > should contain the address as kind of Headline. Then a table of > > all lists of the logged in owner and next to each mailing list an > > indication, if the address is subscribed or not and a Button to > > toggle subscription/unsubscription. May be a single Toggle Button > > or (maybe better) two buttons, a suscribe and a unsubscribe button, > > where one is greyed out. > > This would not work with the current User page as presented to a > superuser, that's true. The current presentation is quite suited to > its purpose, with sections for Addresses, Subscriptions, Ownership, > and Delete User in that order. But especially for superusers, there > are plenty of sites with thousands, even tens of thousands of lists, > and even a paged or scrollable presentation would be awful UI, and the > potential for a disastrous mistake using "do all" is high. I agree. So I think superusers "users view" and owners "addresses view" should be different things. > > In addition my owners would like to have a "unsubscribe from all my > > lists" button. And a "subscribe to all my lists" button. This might > > be visually nicer, when having the two-button approach above. > > I wonder if your owners really want "subscribe all". "Unsubscribe > all" does make sense for separations, of course, and they wouldn't > necessarily be terminations. It would be useful in an internal > transfer where "delete user" is not a solution. But in my experience > specialized channels tend to proliferate but the same people are > likely to be running them as run the department-wide lisst. Yes, "subscribe all" is usually not wanted, I just mentioned it for symmetry. Since we populate higher lists with members from lower lists by script, we would not strictly need "unsubscribe all" as long as the owner knows which lists are populated automatic. We currently hide that info in the short description of the list. Everything very special, I agree. > > In our case we would want to (un-)subscribe the address in a "do > > it, don't ask anyone" fashion, but maybe this is not a good idea in > > general. What do you think? > > I think we would implement it similarly to the mass subscribe for > multiple addresses case, where the list owner can decide how much > bureaucracy to require of the subscriber. You'd want to be careful to > make sure address verification is done at most once (for your use > case, probably not at all). And there would be some things that could > be done to arrange that most lists would have sensible defaults. Yes, this is and was a problem for us. We imported many lists from mailman2. Some settings have to be changed after migration, and a mailman config command to set settings for lists would be great. Or a way to permanently create new list styles. > > Yes, I agree, but policy here is to get rid of subdomains, and that > > falls on our feet now. > > Well, once we figure out how to implement domain ownership, it > wouldn't be hard to adapt that technology to "departments" that are > administratively distinct but share mail and/or web domains. The main > problem would be deciding whether and how to nest them. Superuser > > domain owner > list owner > moderator is pretty obvious, but how > "department owner" would fit in is less so. I already had this wo possibilities here (at different times): In fact a department owner could own several domains. The department research (as opposed to e.g. administration) could contain biology.example.org and physics.example.org) Would it harm to be owner of several domains? Or it could be the other way round (physics.uni.edu has a theory department and an experiment department, each having chairs with the list owners). So there is no single way. Department owner and domain owner seem to be roles on the same level with different funcionality. Superuser has to decide how to use it. -- Mit freundlichen Gruessen, Andreas Vetter

11 months, 2 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: How to turn off Emergency Moderation for imported MM2 lists?

by Mark Sapiro

On 7/28/20 5:40 AM, Brian Carpenter wrote: > Ok, I see the other thread concerning this was deleted, along with my reply. Here it is again. It wasn't deleted. It's on another list - mailman-users(a)python.org. Here's my reply to your post On 7/27/20 7:13 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote: > > This is the client that I asking about in my post. She said what I did, did not work. This is what I did: > > 1. Get into a venv as user mailman > > 2. #mailman shell >>>> from mailman.model.mailinglist import MailingList >>>> mlist = MailingList('listname(a)listdomain.org') >>>> mlist.emergency = False >>>> commit() > ctrl-d (just to be on the safe side) > > Did I not follow your instructions correctly? That should work. I don't know why the result would be any different from what Johanna did. On 7/27/20 8:58 PM, Johanna Amann wrote: > As a small followup for anyone encountering the same problem in the > future - I ended up just changing the value in the database directly. > > So - an “update mailinglist set emergency = FALSE;” (or the equivalent > in the dialect of the database one uses) removes the emergency flag from > all mailing lists. That is another approach which is valid, but why the `mailman shell` method I suggested wouldn't do the same thing, I don't know. Of course, if you're doing multiple lists, this method is easier because just one simple query does them all. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: About to Install MM3 -- Seeking clarification

by Mark Sapiro

On 10/12/22 22:03, Onyeibo Oku wrote: > > Fedora expects mailman files to reside at /usr/lib/mailman. It appears > to ship with a mailman unix user. I adapted to those system defaults. I would suggest you not do that and just install mailman in `/opt/mailman` per https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html. If you don't want to do that, you will have to replace all occurrences of `/opt/mailman` in the doc with `/usr/lib/mailman`. > Now I observe that "su - mailman" gives me the proper prompt but > .bashrc doesn't kick in. I still have to manually change to the > virtual environment despite setting the automatic change in .bashrc. > However, "su mailman" runs .bashrc but the prompt says "bash X.XX $". > Is this normal? Yes. The suggested change to .bashrc assumes you are logging in as the Mailman user, not switching via `su`. You might try `sudo -u mailman bash` or `sudo -u mailman -i` instead of `su`, but I'm sot sure if that will help. > Subsequent parts of the doc show the path "/opt/mailman/mm/var/*" which > should correspond to "/usr/lib/mailman/mm/var/*" on my instance. > However, I don't see any instructions on how to get the "/mm" folder > and the associated sub-folders. I just have "/usr/lib/mailman" I think if you have `var_dir: /usr/lib/mailman/mm/var` in the /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg file you create per https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html#installing-mail…, then starting Mailman core `/usr/lib/mailman/venv/bin/mailman start` will create it. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Strange password problem

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Eggert Ehmke via Mailman-users writes: > my configuration is very much like the one described by Roland. And how much does it cost you? It doesn't sound like you're ready to use the feature at this point, but that often happens when users don't know that there's a feature they could ask for. Is there real risk that domain owners would abuse or mistakenly use site admin privileges on the whole site or on someone else's domains? Are you currently hoping to devolve domain administration to other individuals (now that you know it's probably possible with improvements to Mailman)? Do you have candidates for those domain owners in mind? The problem on our side is that I don't know how this stuff works, and I don't know how much Mark or Abhilash knows or if they have any time to work on it. At least it's not authentication (which is a hairball I have no trouble saying "NO!!" to ;-), but authorization of roles is potentially complex and certainly risky if we get it wrong (eg, in a commercial hosting situation). So I estimate that implementing this is a significant cost for us (unless some volunteer does it, and of course we're pretty sure there will be a GSoC 2024 -- can't promise students will apply for the task, though). I don't say that to discourage you from asking for it; please do ask unless your assessment is that the cost to you of not having the "domain admin" role is negligible. I just want to be transparent about why I'm being nosy about your process, and the kinds of things that go into our decision about what to prioritize. Steve

2 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Turn off social logins?

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Nick Wynja writes: > INSTALLED_APPS = [a for a in INSTALLED_APPS > if not a.startswith('allauth.socialaccount.providers') > and not a.startswith('django_mailman3.lib.auth.fedora')] > This way if Postorius ever adds any apps you won't need to update > your local settings. Anyone see any downsides to doing it this way? Aside from the circular import issue mentioned by Abhilash 1) AIUI, the OP didn't want to present options to users that they don't need and might confuse/annoy them. This does the wrong thing for the OP if so. 2) Implicitly adding apps in this way increases the attack surface on the system by allowing additional opportunities to access resources.[1] This approach doesn't even necessarily get rid of all social authentication providers: others may be special-cased in the same way as Fedora in the future. Of course, the default configuration in the containers will be good for a very common use case, and sufficiently secure for most instances. But the general rule for Internet-facing applications is "shut off all access by default, and explicitly open up only the channels you need." I'm not saying your "subtract the social authentication applications" has a downside in all cases. Just that some of us prefer to expend the effort to (a) follow that general rule, and (b) advise others of its existence :-). Footnotes: [1] You're right, the admin has to intervene if Mailman adds new "must-install" apps, or Postorius won't run. It's possible we should do something about this, such as dividing the set of apps into those we are sure Mailman needs and and having the user configure only those that provide more or less optional features that users should make their own decisions about.

7 years

[MM3-users] High IO for 8+ hours

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Paul Tomblin via Mailman-users writes: > First time running runjobs monthly since I installed it a few days > ago, and it's been maxing out I/O for the last 8 hours. There > doesn't appear to be any logging going on. I am using Xapian, by > the way. > > Is this normal? Is this going to happen every month, or is the > first month special? Full-text indexing is a pretty slow operation, and it's I/O bound. If you've migrated a substantial archive, that will be a full-archive index. Anyway, my experience is that for a multi-terabyte archive on a 4 vCPU 16 GB dedicated Linode it was still chugging away a couple weeks later, using all the I/O it could. (The client said "OK, we're satisfied, we'll call if there are problems" before it completed. It may still be at it for all I know. :-) I think that normally there's a partial reindex once a month (because of the asynchronous nature of email, referenced messages can appear after the current message gets indexed). But if you didn't manually trigger a full archive index at the initial migration, the first monthly will do the whole thing. Unless you're literally archiving terabytes per month, later monthlies should take much less time (but they'll use all the I/O you give them). I don't think Xapian allows you to throttle the indexer, and I don't think any shell's ulimit can throttle I/O, but I gather the Linux kernel can do it to some extent. Steve -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan

5 days, 20 hours

[MM3-users] Re: where to configure max_days_to_hold on MM3 GUI interface?

by Shashikanth Komandoor

Thank you Abilash Raj for your help which made me step ahead. With your help, I have written a for loop as below which makes all the lists on my Mailman 3 box set the configuration of max_days_to_hold as 1 and of course I am successful in setting so. And the for loop is as below: *for listid in `curl -u restadmin:restpass -X GET http://localhost:8001/3.1/lists <http://localhost:8001/3.1/lists> | python -mjson.tool| grep "list_id" | awk -F"\"" '{print $4}'` * *do * * curl -u restadmin:restpass -X PATCH http://localhost:8001/3.1/lists/$listid/config <http://localhost:8001/3.1/lists/$listid/config> -d max_days_to_hold='1'* *done* With the above script I am able to set the value of max_days_to_hold as required but how to check manually and make my held messages discarded automatically which are after the specified period configured for max_days_to_hold. If I am able to do it manually I can be confident to take in to production so that the held messages after a specific period would not be appeared under "held messages" tab. On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 11:14 PM Abhilash Raj <maxking(a)asynchronous.in> wrote: > On Sat, Feb 1, 2020, at 5:27 AM, Shashikanth Komandoor wrote: > > Hello Mark, > > > > Thanks for helping me for moving ahead in my project. > > > > Troubling you again, I would like to put another request at you. > > > > As per your suggestion, I am trying to configure my list > > configuration through REST API for specially the parameter like > > max_days_to_hold as it is not available through interface and I am > > following the official links of mailman 3 i.e > > > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/rest/docs/listconf.html > > > > But I am getting "name is not defined" sort of errors as below: > > > > > > > > > > > > *>>> dump_json('http://localhost:9001/3.0/lists/ > > <http://localhost:9001/3.0/lists/>','ant(a)example.com/config > > <http://ant@example.com/config>',dict(display_name='My > > List'),'PATCH')Traceback (most recent call last): File "<stdin>", line > 1, > > in <module>NameError: name 'dump_json' is not defined>>>* > > > > Actually I am new to REST API but hope this is the only issue > that > > is preventing me to go ahead. > > > > Could you please help me by saying how should I handle this so > that > > I should be able to configure *max_days_to_hold* of a list or multiple ? > > > > > dump_json is basically a Python function which sends the request to the > URL you add as the first parameter (GET, if any data isn't specified and > uses POST if data is specified or explicitly define the PATCH or method > like you have above) and prints the json response. > > You can easily do the same using curl with the right authorization > headers, with something like: > > > $ curl -u restadmin:restpass -X PATCH \ > http://localhost:8001/3.1/lists/somelist.example.com/config -d > display_name='Patched Name' > > > Note that "restadmin:restpass" is the username password that you have set > in your mailman.cfg. > > If you do want to use Python, you can just use a regular PATCH request > using requests or standard library urllib3. > > Finally, dump_json is documented here: > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/documentation.htm… > > > > On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:20 PM Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > > > > > On 1/28/20 8:42 PM, Shashikanth Komandoor wrote: > > > > > > > > But I could see that parameter value configurable on MM2 GUI > > > > interface in General Options but I don't see the same on the MM3 GUI > > > > interface. > > > > > > > > > There are many core settings not (yet) exposed in Postorius. > > > max_days_to_hold. is one of them. It can be set via `mailman shell` or > > > via the REST API > > > < > > > > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/rest/docs/rest.html#re… > > > >. > > > > > > -- > > > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > > > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > > > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > > > > > > > > -- > > Thanks & Regards, > > Shashi Kanth.K > > 9052671936 > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > > > -- > thanks, > Abhilash Raj (maxking) > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- Thanks & Regards, Shashi Kanth.K 9052671936

6 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: [MM3-users]Exim, Mailman3 and missing Message-ID:

by Mark Sapiro

On 7/26/19 11:05 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > The problem is that Mailman's LMTP server rejects malformed mail. I > seem to recall that in Mailman 2, Mailman itself would add a > Message-ID field if one was not present. I don't know how easy it > would be to provide this feature, since we would have to patch the > LMTP server code so the message could make it to Mailman proper > (Mailman 3 imports the LMTP server from the stdlib). It's a simple patch to the lmtp runner (Mailman's LMTP server). There's a closed issue on this at <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues/490> - closed because I convinced the submitter it wasn't the right thing to do. > > My solution for now (apart from telling people not to use old > > broken Outlook!) is to modify the exim mailman3_transport so that > > any message with a missing Message-ID: will have one generated by > > exim before it's passed to LMTP. This reproduces the same behaviour > > exim uses for locally submitted messages. > > I'm not sure it's a good idea to do this (and certainly not by > default). The only times I've seen messages without a Message-ID are > spam messages. I suppose we can add this to the documentation. I added Robert's solution at <https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/mta.html#troubles…> The requirement for a Message-ID: is documented, albeit not very prominently, at <https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/build/lib/mailman/runners/docs/lmt…>. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

6 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Hyperkitty download mbox

by Mark Sapiro

On 4/25/21 2:20 PM, Andrew Hodgson wrote: > Hi, > > Hyperkitty 1.3.4. > > I am trying to download a complete list mbox by going to all threads view and using the download option. I have tried a couple of tools (Gunzip and Winrar) and both are giving me an unexpected end of file when trying to decompress the gz file. > > Here is the list URL I am using: https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/hyperkitty/list/plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamil… Depending in the web server configuration, timeouts can occur when downloading large archive mboxes. instead of downloading the entire mbox with <https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/hyperkitty/list/plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamil…>, do it in pieces by adjusting start and end. e.g. <https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/hyperkitty/list/plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamil…> <https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/hyperkitty/list/plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamil…> <https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/hyperkitty/list/plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamil…> Although, I don't think timing out is the issue, and I'm not sure what is, but I think it has something to do with messages in the archive. If I try to get the 3 pieces as above, the first piece with start=2008-02-19&end=2012-12-31 works but the others don't and even the smaller <https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/hyperkitty/list/plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamil…> fails the same way. If I try to get 2013 month by month, all work except December which gives me an internal server error. What's the traceback from that error. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Help with fresh debian install

by Jonas Meurer

Hi Stephen, Stephen J. Turnbull: > > > This is the issue. I don't know how the Debian packages do this, but I > > > recommend having a 'mailman' user that owns everything and running > > > commands as that user. > > > > The Debian package uses user `list` for this. It also provides a command > > `mailman-wrapper` which takes care of running mailman commands as this user. > > > > It would be awesome if the upstream /usr/bin/mailman command could take > > care of this automatically, making the wrapper command obsolete. > > What precisely is "this"? We already have the mailman command; are > you suggesting it should be suid/sgid mailman/list/whatever? That's > pretty obviously a vulnerability. If there are any RCEs *anywhere* on > your host, your Mailman is pwned. If you know your installation is > secure enough or you just don't care, fine, chmod it yourself. > > If not, how do you propose upstream "take care of it?" Good question. Two options come into my mind: * Provide a sudoers include file and make the mailmman command use sudo to run the actual commands as user mailman/list/whatever. * Check if the command is run under expected UID/GID and error out if not. Probably a commandline argument to ignore this check would be required in that case. I don't consider either of those solutions particularly clean. But it's a matter of fact that people will run mailman commands as user root, which results in logfiles, list files, etc. being created with owner root. Which in turn leads to errors since the mailman daemon is unable to further write to those files. Cheers jonas

6 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Add rule to auto-discard "AutoReply" messages from list members

by Odhiambo Washington

On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 10:38 PM Thomas Ward via Mailman-users < mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> wrote: > When people are communicating on Mailman3 lists, some set up automatic > responders for out-of-office, etc. and get let through the system to > list recipients. > > Unfortunately, this is bad behavior and appears to not be caught by > default. I'd like to set up some kind of rule globally rather than > per-list that would check if a message is an automatic reply (based on a > set of criteria we've come up with programmatically on our previous > custom implementation of lists) and then default-discard those messages. > > Is there a way with custom rules to implement this? We're looking for > certain strings on the subject line or other headers to determine > "Discard" cases in our custom list implementations, but we are hoping we > can implement this with customized rules in Mailman3 to achieve this > goal. How would we structure that type of rule, and do we check the > message object or the msgdata instead? > How about using the rules inside your MTA to check the subject for the common words used by autoresponders like: Out of Office | Auto-Reply | Autoresponse | Auto Reply And if the subject matches, do NOT pass that to the transport that delivers to MM3 Just an Idea borrowed from the rules we (in the Exim MTA world) use to process Out Of Office responses. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]

2 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Timeout error on anonymous subscribe

by Gerald Vogt

On 23.10.24 21:35, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 10/22/24 23:07, Gerald Vogt wrote: >> >> For testing I have set >> >> POSTORIUS_TEMPLATE_BASE_URL = 'https://lists.example.org' >> >> to the URL of our main domain, however, if I test an anonymous >> subscribe through the list info page I still get the timeout error > > This will have no effect unless you delete and recreate the template in > Postorius because simple changing the setting won't change the `uri` in > the template table. O.K. Did that. Now the uri in mailman.template is https://lists.example.org/mailman3/api/templates/list/community.lists.examp… However, it doesn't change the timeout issue, except now the error is HTTPSConnectionPool(host='lists.example.org', port=443): Read timed out. (read timeout=5) instead of localhost:8000. >> I can access http://localhost:8000/mailman3/api/templates/list/ >> community.lists.example.com/list:user:action:subscribe with curl and >> immediately get the response. > > Can you do that as the Mailman user?, e.g. > ``` > sudo -u mailman curl http://localhost:8000/mailman3/api/templates/list/ > community.lists.example.com/list:user:action:subscribe > ``` > assuming the Mailman user is `mailman`. I don't quite understand the relevance of the user accessing the localhost tcp port. Any local user can do that. I can access the template content with curl http://localhost:8000/mailman3/api/templates/list/community.lists.example.c… as well as curl http://lists.example.org/mailman3/api/templates/list/community.lists.exampl… as any user on the mailman server. And I can use the latter to access the template from anywhere as it's a public server. In any case, curl immediately returns the content. There is no delay. Thanks, Gerald

1 year, 4 months

[MM3-users] mailman 3 adding extraneous /var/ to pid path?

by Andrew Hodder

I'm not sure if this is a bug, or if I've configured something I'm unable to find doing this. But when I'm attempting to stop my mailman3 process, I keep getting an extra /var/ appending into the pid path, so it never finds the PID to terminate. Here are some examples, run at different times, some with different -C configs to launch, all worked successfully to start, this is only a problem on the stop.: (venv3) [root@mailman3(on1) venv3]# mailman stop Shutting down Mailman's master runner PID unreadable in: /opt/mailman/venv3/var/master.pid [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/opt/mailman/venv3/var/master.pid' Is the master even running? (venv3) [root@mailman3(on1) var]# mailman stop Shutting down Mailman's master runner PID unreadable in: /opt/mailman/var/var/master.pid [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/opt/mailman/var/var/master.pid' (venv3) [root@mailman3(on1) var]# mailman stop Shutting down Mailman's master runner PID unreadable in: /opt/mailman/var/etc/var/var/master.pid [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/opt/mailman/var/etc/var/var/master.pid' I keep getting around this by creating symlinks to the pid file and then the stop works, but it's getting silly. It seems like mailman just assumes CWD + /var/ + master.pid must be the location. Once I realized this, I found I can do "mailman stop" so long as I'm only in /opt/mailman/ (since it'd then add /var/master.pid). But that seems a little nonsensical. Going to try my hand at using the environment variables MAILMAN_CONFIG_FILE and MAILMAN_VAR_DIR, maybe that will sort this out. But if anyone can explain further, it'd be appreciated. Sincerely, Andrew Hodder Systems Administrator Support Operations, Afilias E-mail: drew(a)afilias.info Phone: +1 416.673.4164 Fax: +1 416.646.1541

8 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] cron error - /opt/mailman/venv/bin/mailman-web runjobs daily

by Odhiambo Washington

I wonder what this means and whether it's fatal. How do I fix it? ``` ERROR OCCURED IN JOB: sync_mailman (APP: hyperkitty) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django_extensions/management/commands/runjobs.py", line 51, in runjobs job().execute() File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/hyperkitty/jobs/sync_mailman.py", line 36, in execute sync_with_mailman() File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/hyperkitty/lib/mailman.py", line 178, in sync_with_mailman mlist.update_from_mailman() File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/hyperkitty/models/mailinglist.py", line 226, in update_from_mailman self._update_owner_mods_from_mailman(mm_list) File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/hyperkitty/models/mailinglist.py", line 231, in _update_owner_mods_from_mailman user = get_django_user(owner) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django_mailman3/lib/user.py", line 30, in get_django_user email_addr = EmailAddress.objects.get(email=member.address.email) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/db/models/manager.py", line 87, in manager_method return getattr(self.get_queryset(), name)(*args, **kwargs) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/db/models/query.py", line 640, in get raise self.model.MultipleObjectsReturned( *allauth.account.models.EmailAddress.MultipleObjectsReturned: get() returned more than one EmailAddress -- it returned 2!* ``` I suspect it's something to do with my action yesterday while attempting to reply to a thread from HyperKitty. The superuser account uses my address - odhiambo at gmail dot com.I am also the listowner for most lists. I tried unsuccessfully to create an account on Postorious using the same email address. I kept getting sent links to verify the account, over and over. Finally, I was able to verify the account, but cannot login with it. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 In an Internet failure case, the #1 suspect is a constant: DNS. "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]

7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Installing mailman 3

by Rafael Mora

I got this error starting mailman service: [mailman@localhost ~]$ source env2Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/asyncio/base_events.py", line 1043, in create_server sock.bind(sa) OSError: [Errno 99] Cannot assign requested address During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/var/lib/mailman/env/bin/runner", line 11, in <module> sys.exit(main()) File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/bin/runner.py", line 198, in main runner.run() File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/runners/lmtp.py", line 242, in run self.lmtp.start() File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/aiosmtpd/controller.py", line 55, in start raise self._thread_exception File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/aiosmtpd/controller.py", line 35, in _run ssl=self.ssl_context)) File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/asyncio/base_events.py", line 466, in run_until_complete return future.result() File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/asyncio/base_events.py", line 1047, in create_server % (sa, err.strerror.lower())) OSError: [Errno 99] error while attempting to bind on address ('192.185.51.89', 8024): cannot assign requested address What do you think? El lun., 24 jul. 2017 a las 17:47, Mark Sapiro (<mark(a)msapiro.net>) escribió: > On 07/24/2017 03:31 PM, Rafael Mora wrote: > > I got this on maillog: > > > > > > > > [root@localhost log]# cat maillog > > > There's nothing in that log that shows any attempts by anything to > connect to Postfix. You have to look at logs from the processes you > think are trying to send mail and see what they're doing. > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- Atentamente / Best Regards Ing. Rafael Mora

8 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] users, users and users (was Re: Re: Cannot request password reset: "The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account")

by IOhannes m zmölnig

On 1/28/22 00:58, dave--- via Mailman-users wrote: > The concept of a Django user sounds like the big thing I was missing now that is something that i wanted to get clarifified in the context of my "getting all registered users" question as well. i'm afraid i still do not fully understand which types of "users" there are. afaics, there are three different types: - django users this is what get's listed under <https://lists.mailman3.org/admin/auth/user/> - mailman accounts this is what is created when you visit <https://lists.mailman3.org/accounts/signup/> - email addresses this is what is created when i subscribe to a list *without* having an account. e.g. via the "Subscribe" button on <https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/> afaiu, (multiple) "email addresses" can be associated with a single "mailman account" (but this is strictly optional). if an "email address" is first used to subscribe to a list without a mailman account, and later a mailman account is created with that very email address, they get automatically associated. a single "email address" cannot be associated with more than one "mailman accounts". i think i got this one right (as it seems pretty straightforward). what i don't fully grasp yet is the relation between "django users" and "mailman accounts". intuitively, i would have thought that they are identical. now mark wrote: > a Django user, which is distinct from a Mailman user. The users you > added via the web API are Mailman users, but in order to access their > lists via the web UI they have to `sign up` to create a Django > account. that seems to indicate, that a "django user" is a (strict) superset of a "mailman account". you (as admin) can create "mailman accounts" via the web API¹, but they are only expanded to "mailman accounts" if you (as user) go through the "Sign Up" process. otoh, if you create an initial "django user" by signing up, you automatically create a "mailman account". so are the two distinct concepts that are just associated via some common property (e.g. the email address), or is there some intrinsic relationship between the two (e.g. parent-child inheritance relationship)? so my recent experiment (comparing the output of <https://lists.example.com/admin/auth/user/> with that of `[u for u in getUtility(IUserManager).users]`) indicates that they are indeed distinct objects that *can* be associated with each other. could you please clarify this? so why am i interested in this? "users" are often associated with some capabilities/powers (which can of course be exploited) it makes me rather uneasy to not understand the core permission model. also (as indicated in my original mail), i'm running mailman3-3.2.1, a rather outdated version, on Debian/buster (an outdated Debian release as well). i would like to upgrade rather sooner than later. otoh, just recently there was a thread on how upgrading a Debian-based mailman3 installation (from buster to bullseye, just like what i plan to do) can go wrong. if things do go wrong, i would rather like to understand where they go wrong, so i'd like to prepare myself :-) fmdsf IOhannes ¹ totally OT, but thanks: finally somebody who calls it "web API" rather than just "API" as if there was no non-RESTful world.

4 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Migrating Mailman 3 lists

by Mark Dadgar

On May 24, 2020, at 7:24 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull <turnbull.stephen.fw(a)u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote: >> Mark Sapiro wrote: >>> On 5/19/20 7:25 PM, Mark Dadgar wrote: > >>>> For reference my pgloader script looks like: >>>> >>>> load database >>>> from sqlite:///var/lib/dbconfig-common/sqlite3/mailman3-web/mailman3web.db >>>> into postgresql://mailman3:XXREDACTEDXX@localhost/mailman >>>> >>>> with include drop, create tables, create indexes, reset sequences, no truncate > >> Have you tried this without indexes and then run the migrate >> script? It may re-create them as part of the schema upgrade >> check. > > That was my immediate guess. I'm not an SQL expert, but I believe > that sequences and indexes are different entities, they're both > optimizations that you don't need (ie, ignoring performance), and > implementations differ on how they're implemented. Eg, if sqlite > implements them as tables, while PostgreSQL has a special data > structure, you could run into this kind of behavior. I'm pretty sure > that these will be recreated appropriate to the new database when the > schema validator is done. > > But don't trust me, and *do* keep a backup. ;-) 😁 I did try it without indexes and it started showing the same warnings. I will give this another try and let it run to completion. I was hesitant to do that because the core database is 7.5 GB and the web database is 35 GB so there are only so many copies I can keep hanging around on the cloud volume. Since the data is mostly text, I am hoping that postgres will compress the bejeesus out of it. - Mark ----- mark(a)pdc-racing.net | 408-348-2878

5 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Confirmation emails aren't sent to users.

by Ibiam Chihurumnaya

Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 2/13/26 05:41, Ibiam Chihurumnaya via Mailman-users wrote: > > Mark Sapiro wrote: > > OK, this is Django. The default EMAIL_BACKEND from > > mailman_web/settings/base.py is > > django.core.mail.backends.smtp.EmailBackend and unless you've changed > > that or added overrides various other defaults are > > EMAIL_HOST = "localhost" > > EMAIL_PORT = 25 > > EMAIL_HOST_USER = "" > > EMAIL_HOST_PASSWORD = "" > > EMAIL_USE_TLS = False > > EMAIL_USE_SSL = False > > EMAIL_SSL_CERTFILE = None > > EMAIL_SSL_KEYFILE = None > > Are those appropriate? Do you have an outgoing MTA listening on > > localhost:25? What's in it's logs? > > I don't have any of those set, didn't realize I needed to have them set, the docs didn't make it obvious too. > > I also didn't notice them in schema.cfg in mailman. > > You normally don't need to set any of those. The defaults should be fine > for a local MTA listening on port 25, however what's in /etc/hosts for > localhost. If it's the IPv6 address ::1, I suggest changing it to 127.0.0.1. Yes, I did change it after you'd said so in the other thread. > > smtp_port is currently set to 25, and I do have an outgoing MTA listening on localhost:25. > > Nothing shows up in the MTA logs about this particular email. > > Again, whats the address for localhost in /etc/hosts? I changed it to 127.0.0.1 after you said so in the last thread. > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Implementing threading [was: hyperkitty failed to create a thread]

by tlhackque

On 13-Feb-19 21:42, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > As I wrote in later post, the message-ID syntactically requires the <>. > > (just one set). > > > > msg-id = [CFWS] "<" id-left "@" id-right ">" [CFWS] > > > > Look at that for the full syntax and reference. > > Sure. It's messy because the id-left could be a "local-part", which > could be almost anything if quoted, and the id-right could be a domain > literal, which is a little more restricted. No. It's not an address. "local part" has to do with an address. in a Message-ID, It's in "id-left", which is a supposed to be something generated by the host that makes the message unique within the namespace defined by "id-right". And while the rfc recommends that be a domain name, it needn't be. In fact, as one of the references I used pointed out, not all hosts have them. One could generate a UUID and use that for both id-left and id-right & be conforming (though given some client bugs, I'd change the '-' in the standard UUID presentation to '.', or just delete it.) Or one could generate a UUID for the right part, use it for all messages sent by a client, and use something else for the left - like a hash of the message+headers. I tend to use a domain name for the right part, and UUID for the left. Then I prefix the left with a number when I need a Content-ID for a body part. The UUID pretty much makes the right part unnecessary, but since it's syntactically required, when I have a domain name it can be useful for forensics. When I don't, the UUID is fine. The advantage of using a domain name for id-right is that there is a global registration system (DNS) that makes it unlikely for conflicts to occur. And that was true for RFC733 time, when hosts were king. Modulo all the "example.com". But once PCs came around, it doesn't work as well. DHCP-assigned names, un-named clients just don't provide the same uniqueness as bbn-tenex.com used to. I think the '@' was just syntactic sugar - if you accept a domain name for id-right, then, as in an e-mail address, it indicates the scope of the unique part (id-left). But just because it can look like an e-mail address doesn't mean it is one. Treat the whole thing as an opaque string. Nothing else is safe. > > 2822 does say: > > > > Therefore, trying to form a > > "References:" field for a reply that has multiple parents is > > discouraged and how to do so is not defined in this document. > > > > But programmers are rarely discouraged - with GUIs, it's pretty easy to > > intuit that one might like to check the boxes on several branches of a > > thread and respond "Of course, you're all right - see my cat photo". :-) > > Oh, I've done this by hand! ;-) Yes, but did you fix the References header to match? > > > 5537 tries to make life easier - until you get to: > > 5322 has adopted the 5537 language for the abstract construction of > the field. It doesn't say anything at all about the logical length > issue and trimming. Yes, but you brought up the news RFCs, IIRC in saying that they defined threading. My quote was verbatim. 5537 does say you must trim. The point is that the news rfcs may have introduced References, but they have different obstacles to reconstructing threading. > > The best one can do is to come up with a "good enough" > > approximation in the available time, and tinker with/improve it > > until bored. > > Which is what Jamie Zawinski did. His algorithm (adopted by IMAP as > the standard for threading IMAP servers) has three features (1) it's > an algorithm (guaranteed to terminate on finite input :-), (2) it > allows for various tie-breaking methods, and (3) if you have enough > messages from the thread and all In-Reply-To and References conform to > the 5337 language, it will be consistent with all References data. I haven't looked at that. Given the trimming in 3.4.4 of 5337, I don't see how this can be produce the whole thread, unless you are guaranteed to have the complete thread to fill the gaps. And you're not. (3) is the issue - you need "enough" and in the worst case, you get 3 references (First and last two). Plus, you can lose messages for strange reasons: The moderator deleted one for inappropriate content. A message was copied to the list and the poster. The response to the list is lost. But a reply from the poster happens later. So the response in question is never seen by the server, though the reference is. Life is hard :-) As a practical matter, I don't expect a sane coder to trim unless necessary. So there's a good chance that you can reconstruct a complete thread in real life. But "necessary" when your main disk was an 8" floppy (or paper tape) seemed different from my notebook PC has a couple of TB SSDs. That doesn't mean that the code has changed. Heuristics are fine. Guaranteeing that the resulting algorithm terminates is important. But real life doesn't get you to "enough messages" 100% of the time. > > See my other post. The left and right halves can, besides being atoms, > > be non-folding quotes or literals. So you have to handle that. > > Of course, but that's just a SMOP. The harder problem is figuring out > what to do about non-conforming input. And, as I've noted: lost input. > > > Although it has a defined syntax, the semantics are that message-id is > > an opaque globally-unique identifier. Attempting to parse it as > > anything but '<[^>]+>' is likely to be a mistake. > > That's true in a world where people actually follow the rules. When they don't, trying to guess at the semantics of an opaque ID will seem to work for a while. But it amounts to the halting problem. There are lots of variants of "generate a globally unique ID with an '@' in the middle". I may have created a new one today :-) > > > I doubt 'striping' is worth doing - when an message-id is present, > > I've almost always seen it include the required <>. > > Since the delimiters are constants and required, consistently > stripping them doesn't hurt with a well-formed msg-id (the delimiters > aren't allowed in a msg-id). And you do have to strip the whitespace, > because it's likely that different MUAs will do different things with > it since they edit the old value (space-separated, tab-separated). > The point is to get to the unique content. Yes. But if they're well-formed, the <> are there, so stripping them only saves a couple of bytes. If they're not, all bets are off. <two<three(a)example.net> - stripping the outer <>s doesn't help. <"two<three"@example.net> is a valid message-Id, and distinct from <"twothree"@example.net. And is <twothree(a)example.net> distinct from <"twothree"@example.net>? (unnecessary quoting, or a distinct message-ID) If you treat it as opaque, you don't care. Take the whole thing, <@> included, as given and look for it in the other fields. The most you might do is remove quotes (and escapes) and use the left and right parts as your key. The whitespace is the [CFWS] on either side of the "<" id-left "# id-right " > production in 2822. That's where you must strip it to get the unique ID. > > It's also possible to keep the literal content (after stripping > whitespace) as well as the "cleaned" version, and use whichever one > corresponds to a real message or to a different value of References in > the same thread. It would be amusing if *both* were associated with > real messages, but that seems unlikely. You could also fingerprint the user agent (e.g. by the order of headers, format of message-ID), and correct for its bugs. But I'm inclined to report client bugs and get them fixed. Meantime, their messages are unthreaded (but not lost). It's just not worth working around other people's bugs - there are better uses for your time. Just ask the DNS people. They just had a Flag Day to get rid of years of built-up workarounds in nameservers... > > > Until yesterday's hyperkitty bug, I've never seen <<>>. > > At least one of my correspondents has a client that frequently > creates "addresses" of the form "<a(a)b.net <a(a)b.net>>". I don't recall > seeing "<<...>>" before, but I rarely look at Message-IDs. > > > I've rarely seen the <> missing - but I'd consider that a warning > > that the message format is suspect. As in this case. > > Agreed. > > > My suggestion is that if you can't find a message-ID, > > A Message-ID field, or a valid msg-id in the References or In-Reply-To > fields? I meant the latter. It's the references that you need to reconstruct the thread - to the extent possible. > > > keep the message in an "unthreaded" bucket. If you sort that by > > subject (omitting "[listtag]" and "Re:*" (case insensitive, and in > > multiple languages) then by date, you probably have a useful > > presentation. And a list of MUAs that need bug reports :-) > > The thing is that a message without a Message-ID (which I believe > should not happen in Mailman, Mailman will assign one before > distributing IIRC) is going to end up being a singleton thread. If > there are replies to it, I don't see why they would be likely to be > temporally adjacent. If they have proper replies, they will end up as > proper thread roots, not in the unthreaded bucket. Am I missing > something? Yes. A message ID should exist. These days I think all MTAs will assign one if the client doesn't. What I tried to say was that there will be times where you can't figure out where to put a message into the thread graph (or forest). Because it references message that you can't find, or it doesn't have a references or reply-to, or those fields are corrupt. In those cases, put them in a bucket. Call them orphans. Most conversations come in bursts. And if I reply to you, my reply will (modulo time errors) be later than your post. Further, there's a pretty good chance that my subject will be "Re: yours". So, if that bucket is sorted by subject (primary key) and date (secondary), there's a fair approximation that within the set of orphans, they'll be near each-other. Which is better than nothing. You're right that if my client generates good headers and yours doesn't, yours will be orphaned. But at least all your replies will share a subject, so in that bucket will be your side of the conversation, roughly in order. And if you quote my text when replying, both sides. If several people have clients that orphan their replies, they all will cluster because of the subject. And be in rough time order. You do want to skip any [list] tag and [Re:]* because they don't change the subject. These are heuristics - you might come up with better ones. The idea is that they don't rely on or try to fix any particular fault in the client's posts. Either a message conforms, or it doesn't. If it does, it gets threaded as everyone expects. If it doesn't , it's an orphan, and there's one place to find it. And with a modest effort, this should keep related ones close to each-other. It's better than just keeping the orphans sorted by date - the subject tends to be stable. But it's not perfect. E.g. the not-uncomon 'Re: dogs are better (was cats rule)' won't keep the thread together. But it seems better than nothing, without endless improvement. Once the afflicted users learn that messages they post are put into the Orphans thread, they can complain to their clients' developers. Meantime, life should be tolerable - but annoying enough for them to keep the pressure on for a fix :-) > > If it's an unusable munged reference in References, the munged > reference may be visible as a placeholder (no real message) in a > separate subthread, or pruned (and invisible) because no real message > is indicated by it. The indicated message will be in a separate > subthread if it has a valid References (including no References, in > which case it will be a thread root). And, of course, if it's not the > immediate parent, other messages' References fields will likely allow > the message to be threaded corrects. AFAICS "stripping and cleaning" > an invalid msg-id is highly unlikely to duplicate a valid msg-id > associated with a different message, athough there's a good chance it > won't allow identification of any message at all -- which is where we > started. > > Yes, and that's why I think it's wasted effort. Opaque means "Opaque". If you don't have one that conforms, use something else, and use the imperfections to get the bug(s) fixed. At least with an orphans bucket, you don't end up with "invisible" messages. They're just not where you expected. Like the SPAM folder :-) You know where to look, and you know that anything in there means there's a bug to fix.

7 years

[MM3-users] Re: Apache+mod_wsgi issue

by Mark Sapiro

On 12/22/22 22:26, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > On Fri, Dec 23, 2022 at 9:21 AM Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> And now I am having a problem with mod_wsgi. >> First, the URL displayed when I load the page looks bogus to me. >> While I expect the URL to be >> https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/domains/, mod_wsgi give me >> https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/mailman3/domains/ - there is an >> extra /mailman3! See below: >> So I have; >> 1. https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/mailman3/lists/ - working, >> or appears to. >> 2. https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/mailman3/domains/ - working, >> or appears to. >> 3. https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/mailman3/bans/ - working, or >> appears to >> 4. https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/mailman3/users - working, or >> appears to >> 5. >> https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/mailman3/lists/kictanet.lists.kic… >> - This throws an exception error when I click "Manage Subscription". >> >> -> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/RkKH793Jgw/ messages like these [Fri Dec 23 09:10:55.393386 2022] [wsgi:error] [pid 74857] [remote 197.232.81.246:14181] File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.9/site-packages/mailmanclient/restbase/connection.py", line 160, in call [Fri Dec 23 09:10:55.393390 2022] [wsgi:error] [pid 74857] [remote 197.232.81.246:14181] raise HTTPError(params.get('url'), response.status_code, [Fri Dec 23 09:10:55.393394 2022] [wsgi:error] [pid 74857] [remote 197.232.81.246:14181] urllib.error.HTTPError: HTTP Error 500: {"title": "500 Internal Server Error"} Indicate an uncaught exception in Mailman core. What's in mailman.log? >> And while I do not quite understand the error itself, there is also one >> particular line that I also saw that has left me baffled: >> [Fri Dec 23 08:53:18.290411 2022] [core:info] [pid 91236] [client >> 197.232.81.246:13865] AH00128: File does not exist: >> /usr/local/www/apache24/data/archives/list/ >> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke/thread/VIHCC6MSXZSNHY7YPEJ3D2US4N7MHJEC/, >> referer: >> https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/archives/list/kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke This is because something is doing an HTTP GET for `/archives/list/kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke/thread/VIHCC6MSXZSNHY7YPEJ3D2US4N7MHJEC/` and the URL is not recognized as one handled by mod_wsgi so apache tries to get it from its DocumentRoot. mod_wsgi has to serve a number of URLs. Look in /opt/mailman/mm/urls.py for urlpatterns. You will probably see things like url(r'^accounts/', include('allauth.urls')), # Django admin url(r'^admin/', admin.site.urls), url(r'^mailman3/', include('postorius.urls')), url(r'^archives/', include('hyperkitty.urls')), Those are all things that need to be handled by mod_wsgi In your apache config, you only have a WSGIScriptAlias for /mailman3. Thus paths need to be prefixed with /mailman3 in order to be handled by mod_wsgi. I'm not sure what is doing this prefixing, but without it paths that don't begin with /mailman3 don't work unless you also have things like WSGIScriptAlias /accounts /opt/mailman/mm/wsgi.py WSGIScriptAlias /admin /opt/mailman/mm/wsgi.py WSGIScriptAlias /archives /opt/mailman/mm/wsgi.py in your apache config. > I also need to add the fact that at the point where I am clicking "Manage > Subscription", the URL has changed to > https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/archives/list/kictanet@lists.kict… > (just a single /mailman3). > Something is adding mailman3/ to URLs. In the above the URL should be https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/archives/list/kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.k…, but an extra /mailman3 is added. The others are like https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/lists/ and an extra /mailman3 is added. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: Installation Questions [Installation}

by Gerald Vogt

On 04.11.24 09:13, Odhiambo Washington via Mailman-users wrote: > On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 10:34 AM Gerald Vogt <vogt(a)spamcop.net> wrote: >> On your server it looks like this: >> >> # ls -la /etc/mailman3 >> total 28 >> drwxr-xr-x. 2 root mailman 95 Oct 25 08:12 . >> drwxr-xr-x. 99 root root 8192 Oct 29 07:42 .. >> -rw-r--r--. 1 root mailman 266 Oct 25 07:37 gunicorn.conf >> -rw-r-----. 1 root mailman 92 Nov 21 2023 mailman-hyperkitty.cfg >> -rw-r-----. 1 root mailman 797 Sep 9 11:20 mailman.cfg >> -rw-r-----. 1 root mailman 3015 Oct 25 08:12 settings.py >> >> and it works just fine. >> > > True, but making the mailman user own the files makes life easier when you > operate from the virtualenv - > you do not have to exit the virtualenv to edit the files in /etc/mailman3, > and then re-enter the virtualenv. The virtualenv doesn't change the current uid. That doesn't make a difference. > You do not have to give the mailman user sudoer rights. That's the whole > point about the below: > > ``` > sudo mkdir /etc/mailman3 > sudo chown mailman:mailman /etc/mailman3 > sudo chmod 755 /etc/mailman3 > ``` Well, that essentially was my question: why does the mailman user require sudo rights? Why does it need to be able to write or change those files/directories? Except for the convenience which isn't a reason to weaken security. In respect to security, i.e. separation of the service user from write access to it's core configuration files, it should not be done unless absolutely necessary. I haven't seen a reason, yet, and our server runs just fine. That's why I am asking. Thanks, Gerald

1 year, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Issues with Mail delivery after Mailman 3 installation

by Chihurumnaya Ibiam

On Wed, Feb 4, 2026 at 9:06 PM Stephen J. Turnbull <steve(a)turnbull.jp> wrote: > Chihurumnaya Ibiam via Mailman-users writes: > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2026 at 4:21?PM Stephen J. Turnbull <steve(a)turnbull.jp> > > wrote: > > > > > Chihurumnaya Ibiam via Mailman-users writes: > > > Not uninstalled it, commented out from postfix master.cf the line; > > # dovecot unix - - y - - lmtp > [...] > > systemctl shows the service is still active, > > Life will be a lot easier if you shut that service down, and fix > whatever configuration in Postfix that's needed to talk directly to > Mailman (probably nothing since that configuration is in postfix_lmtp, > and if you put that table in transport_maps it's highest priority so > should work). You don't need a mailbox transport since you have no > local users who should be getting mail on the Mailman host, except > maybe root. > > I configured mailbox transport because that was how I was able to get lmtp to run on port 24, there wasn't any service before that and the documentation <https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/mta.h…> for setting up a mail server mentions postfix delivering by default over port 24. Disabling this means there's no lmtp to be used by postfix, except I'm missing something. > I didn't end the service itself, I assumed the line above I > > commented out would prevent the dovecot service from running under > > postfix. > > The fact that there is a systemd service implies that dovecot will be > running by default unless it is disabled. > There's no service file for dovecot, I didn't create one. > If Mailman and Dovecot are running, each will try to open a socket with > parameters IP address and port number. The IP address is 127.0.0.1, > and the port number of Mailman is 24 according to the "mailman info" > output you provided. I don't know what the port number for Dovecot > is, but its default is also 24. If so, the one that opens that > listening socket first will win, and the other is going to be unable > to open its socket. I'm not sure if Mailman can even open a > privileged port (number less than 1024), since it should be running as > 'mailman', not 'root'. > > I set the port number for lmtp to be 24, and that's what I used, I'm not sure if Mailman sets up lmtp itself, if it does then I'll have to remove the config for that. I've stopped dovecot after our conversation so it's no longer running, the only way the port is open is through the config I set in postfix for mailbox_transport. > > Yes, that's how it's configured. > > Sure, but something is wrong with the configuration, and it might not > be just one thing. > I agree. > > I'll have to look at user authentication in lmtp then, because the > > earlier passwd-file arguments seems to have no effect, I probably > > didn't configure it properly. > > I don't understand why you have authentication for Mailman in any > case. From what you wrote before, there should only be one active > user on that host, and it's you, either as root or an ordinary user > with sudo. If anybody else can get in there, you have bigger problems > than connecting to ports 24 and 25. > There's just one active user, which is me, and I also have root access. I setup authentication for postfix because I'm used to setting it up that way, this was a force of habit. I assumed postfix would run just fine if I set postfix up the way I usually set it up. > > It may make sense for Postfix to authenticate to servers on other > hosts if it is purely internal to your network and does not talk to > the Internet. Similarly, it may make sense for Postfix to require > authentication for incoming messages if all your posters are expected > to send mail only from internal hosts. But if your Postfix talks to > hosts outside of your network, authentication should be off, because > almost certainly you have no way to configure it on the remote hosts. > This makes sense. > > > The listener on 24 is lmtp via postfix, the port opened after I > > added this line to postfix; > > mailbox_transport = lmtp:inet:localhost:24 > > > > Dovecot also has lmtp as a running protocol, but that didn't open > > the port. > > This doesn't make sense. Mailman and Dovecot are LMTP servers, both > *must* open ports in order to receive connections. On the other hand, > Postfix is an LMTP client, it opens a connection to the port only when > it is delivering a message. > > What does "lsof -i @127.0.0.1 -i '@[::1]' | grep 24" output? > postgres 1592912 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 python3 1592922 mailman 27u IPv4 177685024 0t0 TCP localhost:8001 (LISTEN) python3 1592924 mailman 22u IPv6 177685051 0t0 TCP localhost:48638->localhost:postgresql (ESTABLISHED) postgres 1592939 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 postgres 1592941 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 postgres 1592943 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 python3 1592949 mailman 27u IPv4 177685024 0t0 TCP localhost:8001 (LISTEN) python3 1592950 mailman 27u IPv4 177685024 0t0 TCP localhost:8001 (LISTEN) postgres 1592953 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 postgres 1592954 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 postgres 1592954 postgres 9u IPv6 177686124 0t0 TCP localhost:postgresql->localhost:48498 (ESTABLISHED) postgres 1592955 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 postgres 1592957 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 postgres 1592959 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 postgres 1592963 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 postgres 1592966 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 postgres 1592970 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 postgres 1592974 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 postgres 1607364 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 postgres 1607478 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 postgres 3568035 postgres 5u IPv6 160224851 0t0 TCP localhost:postgresql (LISTEN) postgres 3568035 postgres 6u IPv4 160224852 0t0 TCP localhost:postgresql (LISTEN) postgres 3568035 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 postgres 3568037 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 postgres 3568038 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 postgres 3568039 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 postgres 3568040 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 postgres 3568041 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 postgres 3568042 postgres 8u IPv6 160224857 0t0 UDP localhost:36787->localhost:36787 The output shows mailman is indeed listening on the port, I now know Mailman is an LMTP server, I didn't know that before so there wasn't any need for me to do what I'd done. > > [mta] lmtp_host: *.*.*.* > > That should be 127.0.0.1. Mailman should not be listening on network > interfaces other than the loopback (localhost). > Yes, it is. > > > [mta] lmtp_port: 24 > > This can't work if Dovecot is configured to use the same port, as is > Dovecot's default. > I've stopped the service. > > > [mta] outgoing: mailman.mta.deliver.deliver > > [mta] smtp_host: 127.0.0.1 > > [mta] smtp_port: 25 > > Those are normal. > > > [mta] smtp_pass: ************** > > [mta] smtp_user: mailman > > This is going to cause Mailman to try to authenticate to Postfix. > That's OK if it's what you want and Postfix / saslauthd has been > properly configured to accept Mailman's credentials. Otherwise, > they must be left empty to disable authentication. > Okay. > > > I used the virtualenv method. > > Good. That's the preferred method, as distro packages generally lag > substantially, often a year or more. > > Yep, that's why I used it. > > The Message-ID being the way it is doesn't seem like a > > configuration issue, if it is then how do I look into it? > > Probably you don't have the full hostname in Postfix's myorigin or > myhostname parameter. > I do have the full hostname there, I also have it in /etc/mailname. > > Yes, it points to a configuration problem, the recipient_delimeter > > for postfix is set to + > > OK, then I don't know why mail is looping in that way. > > > How do I disable outgoing authentication? I don't remember enabling > > it. > > As mentioned above, you leave smtp_user and smtp_pass empty. > > > I also just noticed this in the logs; > > > > NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from unknown[141.98.11.11]: 554 5.7.1 > > <allenmccathyesq(a)gmail.com>: Relay access denied; > > from=<marketing(a)lists.sugarlabs.org> to=<allenmccathyesq(a)gmail.com> > > proto=ESMTP helo=<LS57X2JsBM> > > Reverse lookup for 141.98.11.11 returns axon-stall.riddlecamera.net, > but that doesn't roundtrip (the lookup on that domain goes to a > different customer address in Google Cloud). The IP address appears > to be in Lithuania. Is any of that expected? If not, I would guess > that's a spammer who is somehow spoofing the PTR record. > The log entry before that warned of the same, they're definitely a spammer. Relay access is denied though, so no mails are going through. The IP for the host that mailman is on does have a valid PTR record. > > > I turned submission back on, totally forgot it was used that way. > > What do you mean by "submission"? This entry in Postfix's master.cf? > submission inet n - y - - smtpd > (along with any -o options you are using) > No, I mean smtps. Someone uses that alias to send out emails, hence why I need it. Might have to disable smtps entirely as I just checked the old config and it's not used like I thought. > > If so, Mailman isn't going to use it, because Postfix's submission > service is an smtpd that listens on port 587 (unless you've changed > that in /etc/services). But you've specified that Mailman talk to > Postfix via port 25. > I had changed it, and I didn't do it for postfix. > > > I also added permit_auth_destination to smtpd_relay_restrictions for the > > Relay access denied issue. > > I don't think permit_auth_destination does what you think it does. > Here's the Postfix doc: > > permit_auth_destination > Permit the request when one of the following is true: > > - Postfix is a mail forwarder: the resolved RCPT TO domain > matches $relay_domains or a subdomain thereof, and the address > contains no sender-specified routing (user@elsewhere@domain), > - Postfix is the final destination: the resolved RCPT TO domain > matches $mydestination, $inet_interfaces, $proxy_interfaces, > $virtual_alias_domains, or $virtual_mailbox_domains, and the > address contains no sender-specified routing > (user@elsewhere@domain). > I did read the documentation before adding it, I definitely misunderstood what it meant, and after looking at the old documentation, it makes sense not to add it. Could you help me understand what the above means? > > I thought this host is dedicated to Mailman? If so, you just want > permit_mynetworks in relay restrictions, and mynetworks_style = host. > This does what you want because Mailman is *not* an MTA. As far as > Postfix is concerned, delivery to Mailman is a *local* delivery (LMTP, > yes?), and the messages being delivered to subscribers are *new* > messages being sent by a *local* user. It is not a relay as far as > Postfix can tell. And $relay_domains should be empty, you don't want > anything else permitted. > Yes, this host is dedicated to Mailman. These are listed in smtpd_relay_restrictions; permit_mynetworks permit_sasl_authenticated reject_unauth_destination reject_unknown_recipient_domain reject_non_fqdn_recipient reject_unlisted_recipient > > From Postfix docs: > smtpd_relay_restrictions > (default: permit_mynetworks, permit_sasl_authenticated, > defer_unauth_destination) > > which is mostly what you want on a dedicated Mailman host. In fact, > once I know things are working I would normally delete > permit_sasl_authenticated, since I don't want third parties coming in > through submission and relaying directly out through Postfix without > going through the malware checking done by the milters that should be > attached to Postfix's smtp service. I would also change > defer_unauth_destination to either reject_unauth_destination or > reject, since I don't want relay attempts to be retried. > > I'll remove permit_sasl_authenticated, as my assumption no longer holds. That's why I disabled it earlier because I remembered it was never used for delivery, but then I remembered there was a conversation about the marketing alias so I assumed it was used for sending out emails. > > I usually set postfix user authentication through saslauthd, which is > > configured to use /etc/shadow for user lookup. > > But there shouldn't be any users with passwords on that host except > you. You can set one and authenticate the 'mailman' user if you want, > but there's little point to it. Furthermore, any system users that > might send mail (eg, cron) won't be able to do so since there's > typically no provision for them to do the SASL AUTH dance. > I did set one for the mailman user, seems I'll have to remove it and disable saslauthd too. > > > I was just reminded that it's needed though, the log entry above > reminded > > me of that. > > Well, there's always the alternative of doing what I suggested, which > is to reconfigure the system to be as simple as possible, and add > complexity only when the simple configuration is working. > Yes, this is where I'm headed as that's what I need. > > Steve > > -- > GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) > Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ > Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan > -- Ibiam Chihurumnaya ibiamchihurumnaya(a)gmail.com

1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Deactivate list without deleting it?

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Colin Watson writes: > I possibly should have explained our situation in a little more > detail. Well, I was pretty clear on your requirements, it turns out. I don't, and I believe I'm in agreement with the rest of the team here, need to know why you want something (at least not at this "let's see if we can hash out the requirements and the design a bit" stage). After all, even if we end up WONTFIXing it, it's open source and we're happy to talk about how you might do something even if we won't do it for you! > Postorius wouldn't come into it in our case That's an interesting detail. Thing is, at present Postorius *is* the "control panel" for the whole suite (all the best bands are run by their bassists, you know), so we would bring it up if you left it out. However, if you don't want to use Postorius, I think the mailman-client functionality will make it strightforward to implement your UI within Launchpad, and it now includes a nicer CLI so if you prefer to implement core and Hyperkitty functionality before the Launchpad side, mailman-client will allow you to test core features at that stage. > I'd been thinking more of a new enum in HyperKitty for the visibility > state, since it does seem like quite an archiver-specific thing. Well, there is an enum in core for it already. I'm not sure how that works currently (specifically, how you go about telling Hyperkitty if that changes). Keeping that in sync is an issue (at least for us), since Postorius can query it, IIRC. For the rest, I have nothing to add to what Barry already wrote. Steve

8 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: "Approved:" header from mailman2 times

by Abhilash Raj

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018, at 8:59 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 04/09/2018 03:59 PM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 9, 2018, at 3:00 PM, Dmitry Makovey wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> is there any equivalent to "Approved" header that was present in MM2 in > >> MM3 land? Google is not very helpful in that. > > > > It does exist in Mailman 3 as a carry-over from Mailman 2, but AFAIK it is broken. > > > I don't think it is broken, but it requires setting the > moderator_password attribute for the list which can be set visa REST but > I think not by mailmanclient. > Thanks Mark for clarification. > > > Also, I have been thinking of not having this as a feature in Mailman 3, mostly because of the issue of having shared passwords. No one should be sending out passwords anyway through plain emails anyway. > > > > > Agreed. This is a shared password. and would be sent in plain text as a > header or body line. > > It would be nice though to have some feature to enable, for example, > spoof proof posting to a one-way (announce only) list. > > One thought on how to do this would be to have a list attribute that > says posts from 'authenticated' owners and moderators can be auto > approved and authentication could be by PGP signing the post. This would > require Mailman to have the ability to verify a PGP signature from an > owner or moderator which is not currently the case. +1 on using PGP signatures for doing this and that is exactly what I was thinking :) -- Abhilash Raj maxking(a)asynchronous.in

7 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] mailman 2.1 or 3.0 (or another MLM)

by nate

Hello mailman users out there - I have been a casual user of mailman for 21 years now I think it is. Most of my lists were super small (my only current lists have no more than 8 members each), super low volume. It's "just worked" over the years, no issues. I have been using Linux since 1996, not a newbie here. 21 years ago I deployed mailman as part of our corporate email and then there were a lot more users. Since that time I just use mailman on my personal server. I did a apt-get dist-upgrade on my system and was surprised to see mailman had vanished. Wasn't expecting that.. not a big deal, or so I thought. I am running Devuan 4, which is based on Debian. Investigating further it seems Debian at some point dropped Mailman 2.1 and started including Mailman 3. OK, not too bad I thought.. I was/am prepared to start my mailing lists from scratch again, manually copy/paste over settings/users/etc. Don't care about archives etc. I setup mailman 2.1 on another Devuan 3.x system and copied my mailman configs over to it, and can view them fine via the mailman cgi scripts through Apache, I was planning on just copy/pasting list settings between the two systems for each list. Roughly 10-15mins into trying to get mailman3 off the ground I just find myself overwhelmed. That doesn't happen often. I'm honestly completely shocked at how it seems the complexity of the system has increased by orders of magnitude. I have been browsing around https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/pre-installation-guide.html (and other links on that documentation site) But as much information as there is, to me there really isn't any information there. If that makes sense. I'm sure it doesn't make sense so let me give an example. On this page: https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-web.html I assume that would lead me to how do I configure the web interface so I can do stuff with it. I setup an admin account, then it goes into scheduled tasks(which appear to be handled by the Debian package already but don't know what these tasks would have to do with a web interface). I tried sending a test email but that failed, I looked at the setting up email portion but it does not give any indication where that config would be stored, a recursive grep on /etc for EMAIL_BACKEND turns up nothing (there is a /etc/mailman3 directory with some files in there). Then it goes into other things like task queues, full text searching, here I am just looking for info on where this web interface is, where is the config, what port does it listen on? Is it a cgi like mailman2? It seems like it could be a standalone service. Then it shows a bunch of other settings, not indicating what file these are stored in(or what directory the file is in), etc etc etc. Debian's own documentation is severely lacking in this department as well, normally I am used to going to /usr/share/doc/<package>/ and there is some useful stuff. There is stuff for mailman3 but it's minimal at best. So I'm thinking mailman3 is not the package for me. I've really appreciated mailman 2.1 (and earlier versions) as I said they always just worked, never had to think about them. I'm sure a lot of good hard work has been put into 3, I just don't recall the last time I looked at a project and just honestly didn't even know where to begin which surprised me so much given my 20+ year history of mailman as a user and as an admin. Is there some document(s) out there that would be more beneficial to me in setting up mailman3? I see that mailman 2 looks like it's still being maintained, I assume mailman3 is the result of python3 code and mailman2 perhaps uses python 2.7? I am unsure on the ability to run mailman2 on a modern Debian-based distro since of course Python 2.7 is pretty obsolete at this point (or maybe Mailman 2.1 doesn't use python I don't recall). I could try to install the older mailman 2.1 package on Devuan 4 and see what happens I don't know if it would be that simple or not. Or is there a better MLM for simple use cases? I used Majordomo back in the 90s and was happy to get onto Mailman from that. Something similar to Mailman 2.1 in features/functionality. Worst case I could just use aliases in my postfix config at the end of the day that is all that is really needed, though I do like some level of access control on who can email the lists(even if nobody outside the list knows the list exists), I've had some of these lists for 2 decades, old habits die hard right? I did some searches for mailing list software on the Debian package archives and saw a few options, nothing really stood out at me as something super interesting yet though. I don't mean to come across as harsh or complaining or anything I'm just here in shock kind of. Thinking about what the best solution for me would be. My mailing lists have been broken for a couple of weeks but that's really not a big deal. thanks nate

4 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman automatic accept notification

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Tambet Paide via Mailman-users writes: > The problem is that I will get always message that mail has been > delivered and also not delivered when somebody send mail to the > list and also every other user in the list, but the only one who > not get those messages is the sender. This means that the sender is either not on the list or has delivery disabled. It is unrelated to the problem of bounce messages going to the subscribers. > Would like to make it so that only the sender will get those > messages not everybody else Normally the sender does not know about the subscribers in detail, so we try to make the default configuration that a delivery failure notice (bounce message) goes to the list owner, who is the only person who can do anything about it. As far as I know, there is no way to configure bounce messages to go to the original sender. That is normally a very bad idea, because the original sender cannot do anything about mailing list bounces, unless they happen to be the list owner anyway. On the other hand, the list owner has need to know because if anybody can fix the problem, they can. If you have a reason why the original sender should get these messages (that is some action they should take to fix the situation), let us know, and we'll try to figure something out. But I can't think of one myself. > Example what every user will get but not the sender: > > Mail DeliverySystem<MAILER-DAEMON@LOCALHOST> > Sent on:Wednesday,November18, 2020 6:58:30PM > To: list.<domain> oneofexamplelist<oneofexamplelist(a)lists.domain.XX> > > Subject: Undeliverable: mail-subject 17.11.2020 > Attachments: one-attachment 17.11.2020.msg(38.5 KB) > > Delivery to these recipients or groups failed: > > oneofexamplelist(a)lists.domain.XX This is not an "uncaught bounce" message from Mailman. This is a normal delivery status notification from the mail daemon on your system, that happens to have been sent to the list. Assuming both instances of "oneofexamplelist(a)lists.domain.XX" refer to the same address, it looks to me like you have the mailing list configured as the list owner address. That will cause you a lot of pain. Change that to the personal address of the list owner. If that is not the case, perhaps the list is anonymized so that the author appears to be the list. In email, the author (the person and email in From:) is separate from the sender (which usually does not appear in the header that recipients see). It is the sender which should receive bounce messages. By default Mailman is configured to direct bounce messages to a special address like oneofexamplelist-bounces(a)lists.domain.XX. Either that configuration has been changed, or your mail daemon is sending errors to author, not to sender. > The recipient's e-mail system is currently busy and cannot receive > messages. Please try sending the message again later. The > following authority rejected your message I do not understand the part about "system busy" above. Obviously the list is working because your subscribers are getting the annoying bounce message. The only thing I can think of is that some kind of mail loop is occurring, but Mailman should be rejecting it with an explanation that a mail loop is occurring and a permanent failure. (I say "should" because that's how I would design it, but I don't know that part of the code, and don't have time to find it today. Sorry.) > mailman.xxxx.XX Is xxxx.XX the same as domain.XX? Steve

5 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Unknown attribute: max_message_size

by Alexander Klotz

Hi, just encountering the same problem in postorious, how are the chances of a fix being released soon? Otherwise, we will try the workaround mentioned here: https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/commit/f86ab7fb5cc6edeb23c43336b677c24… Regards, Alex Am 06.12.17 um 20:03 schrieb Abhilash Raj: > > > On Wed, Dec 6, 2017, at 08:25 AM, Simon Hanna wrote: >> On 12/06/2017 11:40 AM, Thor Atle Rustad wrote: >>> If I make changes here: >>> https://example.com/postorius/lists/test2.example.com/settings/message_acce…, >>> I get a warning that the Maximum Message Size field at the bottom is >>> mandatory. However, if I put a number in that field and save, I get >>> "Unknown attribute: max_message_size". That makes sense, since Mark states >>> in >>> https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… >>> that max_messages_size is not exposed in REST. >> It is. https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/merge_requests/329 > > I have added a backport-candidate tag to the MR and will get it out in > 3.1.2 release, if that happens. > >> >>> >>> What to do? > > I understand that it might not be the best answer, but `rolling` tags > for images do have this problem fixed, they are based on Git-heads. > >>> >>> I have Maxking mailman-docker but can easily copy files into the image if >>> necessary. >> Are you sure you have up to date images? >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailman-users mailing list >> mailman-users(a)mailman3.org >> https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Alexander Klotz (redaktion kulturserver) mailto:alexk@kulturserver.de Stiftung kulturserver.de gGmbH Lothringerstraße 23 D-52062 Aachen http://ggmbh.kulturserver.de Geschäftsführer: Wolfgang Knauff Amtsgericht Aachen* *Handelsregister-Nr.:B 10515 Umsatzsteuer-Identifikations-Nr.:DE DE 230868040

7 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Finding a user to delete them

by Abhilash Raj

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Quanah Gibson-Mount wrote: > Due to a bug in mailman3, I have an incorrect user that's been created via > github auth that has no confirmed email address yet. > > I've been poking around the user manager documentation (why is there no > UI > for user management???), and after adding in bits that are missing from > the > official documentation > (<https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/model/docs/usermanager…> > is missing "from mailman.testing.documentation import dump_list" > despite > using dump_list repeatedly in its examples) I can't find the user. dump_json is a documentation helper method which doesn't do much except calling the URL and dumping the returned json in a pretty-printed fashion. https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/documentation.html All the documentation helpers are defined here. > > I have the confirmation email mailman3 sent out, that tells me the username > mailman3 created for the incorrect account is "quanah98", but the user > manager documentation doesn't detail how to find a user by their username, > only their email. And apparently if the email hasn't been confirmed (and I > *do not* want it confirmed), you can't find them by email. > > Suggestions on how to track down this user so I can delete them would be > much appreciated. > > Thanks, > Quanah > > -- > > Quanah Gibson-Mount > Product Architect > Symas Corporation > Packaged, certified, and supported LDAP solutions powered by OpenLDAP: > <http://www.symas.com> > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

5 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: How to limit numbers of outgoing emails per connection

by Odhiambo Washington

On Mon, Feb 10, 2025 at 3:57 PM Alain D D Williams <addw(a)phcomp.co.uk> wrote: > Exim tells me "no immediate delivery: more than 30 messages received in > one connection" > > The emails then sit in the exim queue until a queue runner kicks in - which > happens once every 30 minutes. The result is considerable delays which > makes > list email conversations bouncy. > > Question: how do I tell MM3 to send no more than 30 emails in one > connection to > exim (via SMTP to localhost port 25) ? > > If that is not possible, how do I find the number that MM3 batches outgoing > emails so that I can configure exim to match (as I did with MM2) ? > > I see documentation pages like the following. They are useless to me, > incomprehensible without a lot of learning. I program in several languages > but > only a little Python. What I am looking for is a setting in a config file. > > > https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/runners/do… My biggest MM3 list has 1289 members. I have these global settings on exim config: # exim4u: Values to modify to fix "Connection Refused: Too Many Connections" smtp_accept_max = 400 smtp_accept_max_per_host = 20 smtp_accept_queue_per_connection = 0 Exim has never chocked on any post to this ML. As Jared has explained, which I think is a better approach if you have big lists, you can control the settings from mailman.cfg. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 In an Internet failure case, the #1 suspect is a constant: DNS. "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]

1 year

[MM3-users] Re: Caching problem with templates

by Mark

On Thu, 2025-06-26 at 18:36 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > You can delete the cached entry from the database via `mailman shell > as in > >>> cm = getUtility(ICacheManager) > >>> uri = 'the_uri_from_the_template_table' > >>> cm.get(uri, expunge=True) > >>> commit() > ``` > > You can also delete the entry from the file_cache table, but if you > do > that, the actual file containing the cached data will remain. To > remove > it, > > Rather than doing any of the above, if you want to manipulate the > database, just set the expires_on column in the file_cache table > entry > to a date in the past. > Hi Mark, Thank you for this information. I've given the options a good workout over the last couple of days and found that: 1. Deleting the cache via the mailman shell does the job, but is beyond me to script. There are numerous lists and list owners updating their templates. 2. Changing the expires_on date (to a date in the past) in the file_cache table didn't prevent the cached entry from being used; 3. What did work was removing the records in the file_cache table PLUS removing the corresponding files in var/cache/*/*/* -- for example: /opt/mailman/mm/var/cache/3a/2f/* This I was able to script in bash and cron to run every minute. A hack I know, but it's working for now. I've attached the script in case it's of use to anyone else. (mailman_clear_template_cache.txt) Note: change <USER> in the script to what suits. Does Mailman really need to cache the templates? It seems to be an unnecessary complication. Anyways it happy days again. Thank you again, very much. Your guidance was appreciated immensely as always. Best, Mark

8 months, 1 week

[MM3-users] Re: update problems in virtualenv

by Mark Sapiro

On 11/4/25 11:47, Christian H. Kuhn via Mailman-users wrote: > Hi all, > > i followed https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html > and ran in different problems. Here's the first. > > All mailman-web runjobs report: > > System check identified some issues: > > WARNINGS: > ?: settings.ACCOUNT_AUTHENTICATION_METHOD is deprecated, use: > settings.ACCOUNT_LOGIN_METHODS = {'username', 'email'} > ?: settings.ACCOUNT_EMAIL_REQUIRED is deprecated, use: > settings.ACCOUNT_SIGNUP_FIELDS = ['email*', 'username*', 'password1*', > 'password2*'] This is https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-web/-/issues/37 fixed for the next release. There are two ways to fix this. You can upgrade mailman-web in your venv by activating the venv and doing pip install --upgrade git+https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-web Or you can add the following to your settings.py after the imports from mailman_web.settings.base and mailman_web.settings.mailman ``` del ACCOUNT_EMAIL_REQUIRED del ACCOUNT_AUTHENTICATION_METHOD ACCOUNT_SIGNUP_FIELDS = ['username*', 'email*', 'password1*', 'password2*'] ACCOUNT_LOGIN_METHODS = {'email', 'username'} ``` > (venv) mailman@bywater:~/mm/var/data$ pip install --upgrade mailman==3.3.10 > Collecting mailman==3.3.10 ... > INFO: pip is looking at multiple versions of mailman to determine which > version is compatible with other requirements. This could take a while. > ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement nntplib; > python_version >= "3.13" (from mailman) (from versions: none) > ERROR: No matching distribution found for nntplib; python_version >= "3.13" > > standard-nntplib 3.13.0 is installed. This is an issue with Mailman 3.3.10 and Python >= 3.13 fixed by https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/merge_requests/1348 Here again if you want to upgrade Mailman core you can do pip install --upgrade git+https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman to get the latest from gitlab. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 months

[MM3-users] Re: converting bulk accept_these_nonmembers in migration from mailman 2 to 3

by Mark Sapiro

On 2/12/22 08:19, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > Dear Mark, thanks for your interest. > > On Fri, 11 Feb 2022, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> This may actually be a bug. I'll have to think about that. I've filed >> https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/978 on this. > >> This is https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/794 (still open) > > Given the time needed to solve the issues (I will anyhow notify the site > administrators, hopting they would update mailman when/if resolved), > this means we have to find a workaround. https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/978 has been fixed. You can apply the fix to mailman/rules/moderation.py from https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/merge_requests/961/diffs > not sure what you mean by "defer". The non-member options I see are called > > List default -- follow the list's default member action. > Hold -- This holds the message for approval by the list moderators. > Reject -- this automatically rejects the message by sending a bounce > notice to the post's author. The text of the bounce notice can be > configured by you. > Discard -- this simply discards the message, with no notice sent to the > post's author. > Accept -- accepts any postings without any further checks. > Default Processing -- run additional checks and accept the message. `defer` is what's called `Default Processing` in the above list. > But if hold_these_nonmembers takes priority this will be uselesws in the > current setting. True, but if you apply the fix for https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/978, hold_these_nonmembers won't take priority. > I go to the non-member list, select non-member options and at the bottom > see an item Administration options Moderation. The possible values are > those I pasted above. > > The actual value for most of the imported non-members is "Default > processing" while it is "List default" for thoase automatically added > afresh, It is "Discard" for a number of imported non-members with > spam-looking addresses (I guess they were in some other *_not_members > part of the standard 2.1 antispam ... I can't recall me doing something > on those) That all seems exactly what it should be. > Side question: is there a way to operate IN BULK on non-members ? Like > it is for members (I exported them to CSV). No. Postorius doesn't currently support a CSV export for nonmembers as it does for members, but you could do the equivalent in `mailman shell` ``` $ mailman shell -l list.example.com Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell Use commit() to commit changes. Use abort() to discard changes since the last commit. Exit with ctrl+D does an implicit commit() but exit() does not. The variable 'm' is the list.example.com mailing list >>> for nonmemb in m.nonmembers.members: ... print(nonmemb.address.email) ... ``` > I am not so concerned of these 189 (or better of the 189 minus the > discard ones which should stay) ... anyhow moving them back will be > uncomfortable if there is not a bulk operation tool. > > I am more concerned of the new cases automatically added. Apply the patch. ... > (*) by the way do you confirm that if one is subscribed to a list with > an address (be it bulk subscription, import or new fast subscription), > this person CANNOT change their settings (or address) unless one does a > "sign in" to a (Postorius) account ? That is correct. User's can add multiple addresses to their identity, change addresses and change other settings, but currently that has to be done via Postorius or another web UI that communicates with Mailman Core's REST API. ...>> Addresses still work, and accept_these_nonmembers takes precedence >> over hold_these_nonmembers just as in MM 2.1. > > This was not my impression when I ran a thorough test of 12 cases. > Except the obvious case of the subscriber posting from the subscription > address, all messages went on hold. If a nonmember address is in accept_these_nonmembers, a post from that address should be accepted regardless of hold_these_nonmembers. > Whatever the non-member moderation would be (even if set to reject ! ... > but that makes sense if *_these_nonmembers prevail on non-member > options), and even if the address was set explicitly in > accept_these_nonmembers (should I delete it from the non-member list ?) You can leave it as a nonmember. > What is the actual order (or flow chart) of choices ? Without the fix for https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/978 the order is - Is the sender a member? If so, apply the member's moderation action or list default. - The sender is a nonmember, if the address matches one of (accept|hold|reject|discard)_these_nonmembers (checked in that order), apply that action. - If no match above, apply the nonmember's moderation action - will be `List Default` for new nonmembers. With the fix for https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/978 the order is - Is the sender a member? If so, apply the member's moderation action or list default. - The sender is a nonmember, if the nonmember's moderation action is other than List Default, apply that action. - If not, if the address matches one of (accept|hold|reject|discard)_these_nonmembers (checked in that order), apply that action. - If none of the above, apply the list's default nonmember action. > *_these_nonmembers in the order listed in the page (within each in the > order of occurrence of regexp's) then non-member options ? That's the way it works without the fix except the order of regexps/addresses in a *_these_nonmembers list is immaterial. if the address matches any one of them, that action applies. > If I have Name.Surname(a)inaf.it in accept_these_nonmembers, then > hold_these_nonmembers set to > > ^.+@.+\.it > ^.+@.+\.tng\.iac\.es > > what do you foresee ? Assuming Name.Surname(a)inaf.it is not a member, a post from Name.Surname(a)inaf.it will not be held for nonmember moderation. > And for different regexps, will processing terminate at the first > non-matching one, will they be ANDed or ORed, or what ? They will all be checked until one matches or none do., I.e., effectively ORed. > I am reluctant to accept inconditionally ^.+\..+(a)inaf\.it (they may be > falsified, only the check on their presence in the other list (issue 794) > > I guess I should remove the ^.+@.+\.it regexp AND AT THE SAME TIME > change the Default action to take when a non-member posts to the list to > Hold instead of Discard. > > This way we'll have to check spam (instead of having it auto-discarded), > but if people with alternate addresses post, once they are entered in > the Non-member list they can be authorized to pass for the future ... > > .. would it work ? I think that would work, but if you just apply the patch from https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/merge_requests/961/diffs, it will work the way it did in MM 2.1 honoring a nonmember's explicit moderation action before checking *_these_nonmembers. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman installation results in KeyError: 'env_py'

by Abhilash Raj

On Sun, Oct 22, 2017, at 01:28 PM, Marvin Gülker wrote: > Hi, > > Am 22. October 2017 um 11:47 Uhr -0700 schrieb Abhilash Raj > <maxking(a)asynchronous.in>: > > As Simon mentioned, try using DEBUG=False, if you don't already have > > that. With DEBUG=True, you should see emails printed in a `emails` > > directory under `mailman-suite_project` directory. > > Bingo! Man, I was not seeing the forest for the trees. I should have > peeked inside that emails folder. And yes, changing the DEBUG flag > resolves the problem and emails now go out as they should. My bad! > Thank you! > > > > That being said, the enormous number of configuration files to consider > > > and dozens of cross-references to other pages in the docs make the > > > installation guide hard to follow; it also lacks logical structure in my > > > opinion, when it refers to parts of the configuration which are later > > > explained. For someone like me who never programmed a Django application > > > (Ruby dev) this is all pretty cryptic. Especially, that some parts of > > > information are on <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/index.html> whereas > > > other parts are scattered over readthedocs.io makes it very > > > complicated. > > > > There are only two primary configuration files (there are a few more for > > finer configurations ;-): > > Mh, mailman.cfg, settings.py, and hyperkitty.py are three. But I agree, > I exaggerated. > > > All the settings mentioned in the documentation go to either of these > > files, except, when configuring web server and mail server. Please open > > an issue[2] if it is not clear where a particular configuration snippet > > goes and we will fix it. > > I'll open an issue later; for now off the top of my head so I won't > forget I came over these problems with the docs: > > * The linked installation guide for Sass > (<http://sass-lang.com/install>) does not include any C/C++ > implementation you speak of. Fixed, http://sass-lang.com/libsass is the correct URL, not sure why is it not mentioned under `/install`. > * The mailman-suite's settings.py includes a handler for Less, which is > not mentioned in any documentation. I don't think we use `less` anymore, I will confirm this and remove it if needed. It hasn't caused a problem yet, so I am assuming it is never used. https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-suite/issues/7 > * It's officially suggested to use the "fhs" filesystem path > layout. It's not documented that you need to create the exact > directories and change permissions accordingly; even worse, if one > uses this layout, Mailman tries to write into /sbin, which only the > package manager is allowed to do. Thus, don't recommend that layout in > <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/config-core.html>. I have been thinking which layout is best and should be used. FHS makes most sense, but it is true that `pip` can't write to `/sbin` and hence it doesn't work if you aren't using a package manager. I have changed the docs to recommend `master` layout which uses the whichever directory the `mailman` command is stored in as `bin_dir`. > * This page: <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/config-core.html> does not > mention that the "postfix_lmtp" and "postfix_domains" files are > *generated* by Mailman. I spend quite some time looking for these > files before I found in the Mailman Core docs that they're generated > and it was not an error in my installation. Added a note about it in the docs under "Configuring MTA" section. > * This page: <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/config-core.html> configures > the LMTP server and the REST API server for the same TCP port > (8024). This clashes. Fixed, thanks! > * This page: <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/config-web.html> should > mention the thing with the DEBUG variable we've successfully worked > through in > this thread. Added a note about it. > * There's no mention of how to create the initial superuser on > <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/>, it is hidden down in > <https://postorius.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup.html>, where however > there's no mention of the mailman-suite, but some kind of > "example_project". It was unclear to me whether this now applied to me > or not. Added a section about it under http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-web.html > * <http://docs.list.org/en/latest> contains quite some pip install > commands (duplicated from the postorius/hyperkitty/core docs), but > it's missing "$ pip3 install mailman-hyperkitty", which is only > mentioned in <http://hyperkitty.readthedocs.io/en/latest/install.html> > in the text body (but not as a command block). Added to the installation guide. > * This page: > <http://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/mta.html> > uses "configuration: python:mailman.config.postfix" in the > introductory text without explanation, but down in the > Postfix-specific block the directive is missing with no explanation. I > opted to include it, but I don't know whether that's now correct or > not. You only need to specify settings that you want to override from default. "configuration" for Postfix used to be completely blank until recently, when we added support for regex maps along with hash maps in Postfix. The default is set to hash maps and you don't need to specify the configuration if you using it, if you need to use regex maps, you create a new configuration file and point to it under "configuration". I will see how to make that more clear in there. > The overall problem I had with the docs is that they can't be followed > top-down. One has to refer to the subproject docs if something is > unclear, then searching in them until one finds what one was looking for > (even if one doesn't know what one is looking for, as with the superuser > creation command). I totally appreciate the detailed subproject-docs > approach, but you should follow it consequently then. That is, do not > duplicate some information from the subproject docs in the mailman-suite > docs. It creates the impression as if the mailman-suite docs are > complete, which they aren't. Instead, the mailman-suite docs should use > explicit references, for example: > > 1. Do this... > 2. Now follow the procedure outlined in [Postorius Installation link] > 3. Do something else... > 4. Follow the procudedure in [Hyperkitty installation link] > > That way, the Mailman installation guide would be less of a puzzle. > It however might just be me. I apologise if I sound silly. It wasn't silly at all, in-fact you comments were very helpful to improve the documentation. We would like to not make assumptions about pre-requisite knowledge to use Mailman's documentation and it is hard for us developers to do that without feedback. Thanks a lot to you! -- Abhilash Raj maxking(a)asynchronous.in

8 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: importlib_resources issue?

by Dave McGuire

On 8/14/23 15:29, Dave McGuire wrote: > Hi folks, I'm trying to test a fresh venv-based install from this > procedure: > > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html > > Platform is SmartOS (Solaris 11) with Python 3.10. The installation > goes fine, but initial startup bombs with: > > ImportError: cannot import name 'path' from 'importlib_resources' > (/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages/importlib_resources/__init__.py) > > I assume this is related to importlib_resources moving into stdlib at > some point. Is there a reasonable way around this? [yeah, yeah, I know, replying to my own mail] I've worked out how to get past this. There may be a better way (I'd appreciate the info if so), but I found this: https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/1093 ...and noted Mark's patch at the bottom. Of course that meant downloading the tarball, when I had wanted to do a nice clean install via pip. So, I downloaded the 3.3.8 tarball, extracted it, edited that line in setup.py, tarred it back up again, and did "pip install <tarball>" after installing the other dependencies (wheel and pymysql). A bunch of other stuff blew up...it required the cryptography module, which in turn requires rust, which in turn requires a lot of swap. Oh, and pkg-config. I dealt with all of that, and mailman-core starts up, after complaining about not being able to find postmap. That program lives in /opt/local/sbin under SmartOS, so I've got to find out where to fix the paths, but first I'll see if I can get the front end built. (Remember, this is all a test; if I can get everything working smoothly and replicably I'll do it on the real server.) On to the front-end.. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

2 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: mailman 3 adding extraneous /var/ to pid path?

by Abhilash Raj

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017, at 02:42 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 09/21/2017 01:29 PM, Andrew Hodder wrote: > > > > I keep getting around this by creating symlinks to the pid file and then > > the stop works, but it's getting silly. It seems like mailman just assumes > > CWD + /var/ + master.pid must be the location. Once I realized this, I > > found I can do "mailman stop" so long as I'm only in /opt/mailman/ (since > > it'd then add /var/master.pid). But that seems a little nonsensical. > > > That is the normal expected behavior if devmode is enabled. Check your > configs for this. I don't think `devmode` has anything to do with this, it only disables sending out emails by accident and routes all emails to a pre-defined address. Haven't looked at the relevant portion of the source so I might be wrong. In the absence of any configuration file in pre-defined locations[1], Core will always generate a `var/` directory under $CWD with basic configuration and use it to track a running mailman instance (logs, db, pid file etc). Ideally, you should place your configuration file at one of the locations that it looks and specify a `[paths.custom]` directive in there to make sure it knows where to put everything. See [2] for more details. [1]: http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-core.html#configuring-mailman-core [2]: http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-core.html#configuring-filesystem-… > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ -- Abhilash Raj maxking(a)asynchronous.in

8 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: templates

by Christian

In March when I started troubleshooting my lists, you stated: "Also, one other thing you might check. Do these non-working lists have templates defined in postorius, in particular, one for list:member:regular:footer, and if not, are there any in Mailman's var/templates/lists/redlatinleg(a)lists.ccalternatives.org/ derectory that Mailman doesn't have permission to find and read?" There are no other templates listed in either Postorius nor in Mailman's var/templates (as I stated, I do not even lave a 'lists' subdirectory under Mailman's var/templates). My subscribers are not receiving message distributions from my lists, even while some of them are listed in the archives. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2023 10:58 AM To: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org Subject: [MM3-users] Re: templates On 5/4/23 10:33, Christian via Mailman-users wrote: > I'm having issues with my lists. For each list I have created a > template [ list:user:action:subscribe ]which has a prospective > subscriber have to consent to list rules before they are subscribed. > This template I created is listed in Postorius for each list. I have > noticed that there are no other templates listed in Postorius. Furthermore, there is no 'lists' > subdirectory under Mailman's var/templates/. When you set a template in Postorius it saves it in the postorius_emailtemplate table in the database and tells Mailman core to get the template from Postorius via a URI to a Postorius API. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ Archived at: https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message/ QIHCMEBWANR67HV3NKBK5MCQNSNZRF2A/ This message sent to csa(a)web-analysts.net

2 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: cleanup lost users completly - mailman shell

by Mark Sapiro

On 2/21/22 03:28, Paul Paulchen wrote: > > Thanks to this thread, I know how to find the lost souls in our mailman environment > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/… > > > >>> um = getUtility(IUserManager) > >>> for usr in um.users: > ... if len(list(usr.memberships.members)) > 0: > ... continue > ... adr = usr.addresses[0] > ... print(f'Name: {adr.display_name}, Email: {adr.email}, Created: {usr.created_on}') > > So I can see them now. Is there a technique, to clean them up? To get rid of them out of the system? > I am not a python programmer, but I guess there is a way to use, instead of a single user, a list of users in the delete command of the mailman shell? The replies by Guillermo and Andrew both point to a message/thread containing the same clean_users.py script. This script will do some of what you want, but maybe not all of it. It will delete Django users who have no corresponding Mailman user or have a corresponding Mailman user that has no role on any list, and optionally delete the Mailman user as well. What it won't do is delete a Mailman user that has no role on any list if there is no corresponding Django user. For that you would want to add to the above fragment so it becomes: ``` >>> um = getUtility(IUserManager) >>> for usr in um.users: ... if len(list(usr.memberships.members)) > 0: ... continue ... adr = usr.addresses[0] ... print(f'Name: {adr.display_name}, Email: {adr.email}, Created: {usr.created_on}') ... um.delete_user(usr) ... print(' Deleted.) ... >>> commit() ``` -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years

[MM3-users] Re: Docker or virtualenv?

by Odhiambo Washington

On Sat, Dec 31, 2022 at 2:29 PM Andrew Hodgson <andrew(a)hodgson.io> wrote: > Tim Cutts <tim(a)thecutts.org> wrote: > > >I’ve used docker on my setup. I have been wondering about this though, it > causes me to need to run an AWS VM continuously to run my mailing lists, > and that probably isn’t really necessary. I do sometimes wonder whether > docker might be a better approach and run it under ECS, so I no longer have > to >look after a VM. > > >Even better, MM3 is just a bunch of python functions at the end of the > day, and it doesn’t *need* to be running continuously. Mailing lists are, > more or less by definition, event driven. Has anyone considered whether > it’s feasible to turn it into a bunch of Lambda functions with a serverless > database behind >it? > > I actually moved from Docker to Virtualenv on my machine as I wanted to > use the same larger VM to run a Cloudron instance which takes over Docker. > Overall I have been more happier with the virtualenv approach as it allows > me to customise the install more easier. I did look at running Mailman > using Azure Container instances. The main thing here is we need to get the > MTA integrated, and the MTA needs to send out emails from a static IP > address with reverse DNS etc setup. This isn't easy to do on anything other > than a VM. > MM3 can use a local or a remote MTA, I believe. However, for the MTA to send out emails to the "Internet", then DNS/PTR requirements must be met. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-)

3 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: Problem with redirection when entering alias without a / at the end

by Jens Günther

Am 19.03.21 um 23:04 schrieb Mark Sapiro: > On 3/19/21 2:55 PM, Jens Günther wrote: >> >> When I want to get to Mailman Starting Page now I need to Enter the >> following URL: https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman3/ to be directly >> redirected as expected to >> https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman3/postorius/lists/ -> works. >> >> Problem: When leave out the slash at the end and I ONLY enter the >> following URL: https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman3 -> then I'm wrongly >> redirected to a page, taht does not exist: >> https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman/postorius/lists/ -> 404 > > > Huh? that is the same URL as the one above that you say works. Do you > mean https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman/postorius/lists without the slash or > what. Here is the difference: https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman3/ https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman3 -> the first one works and leeds to https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman3/postorius/lists -> the second one redirects to https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman/postorius/lists -> which does not exist, since Apache-alias is only for mailman3 >> Where can I change this misbehaviour? In Apache-conf everything seems as >> it's in the docs, for the vHost I do not have any other custom settings. > > > What is the exact content of your RedirectMatch or ReweriteRule or > whatebver you are using? > I only use the apache-conf given in the documentation: <code> Alias /mailman3/favicon.ico /var/lib/mailman3/web/static/postorius/img/favicon.ico Alias /mailman3/static /var/lib/mailman3/web/static <Directory "/var/lib/mailman3/web/static"> Require all granted </Directory> <IfModule mod_proxy_uwsgi.c> ProxyPass /mailman3/favicon.ico ! ProxyPass /mailman3/static ! ProxyPass /mailman3 unix:/run/mailman3-web/uwsgi.sock|uwsgi://localhost/ </IfModule> </code>

4 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: getting all registered users and their lists

by IOhannes m zmoelnig

On 1/26/22 17:19, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 1/26/22 00:16, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: > > You can do this in mailman shell[...]> ``` > >>> from datetime import datetime > >>> um = getUtility(IUserManager) > >>> for usr in um.users: > ... if len(list(usr.memberships.members)) > 0: > ... continue > ... if usr.created_on < datetime(2022, 1, 1): > ... continue > ... adr = usr.addresses[0] > ... print(f'Name: {adr.display_name}, Email: {adr.email}, Created: > {usr.created_on}') > ... > ``` > perfect. that did the trick, thanks a lot. >> is there a scriptable way to get all users that have registered in my >> mailman3 (3.2.1) instance and which lists they are subscribed to (if >> any)? > > It's in Postorius >= 1.3.6 i'm not entirely sure how this relates to the above (working) snippet. is it, that with postorious>=1.3.6 i would be able to perform that task from the webinterface, rather than having to resort to 'mailman shell'? in any case, this might be related: before i received your email with the 'mailman shell' snippet, i scraped some bits of my django knowledge and visited <https://lists.example.com/admin> (the django admin interface), and noticed the list of users there. so i scraped that page for users (assuming that this was the list of registered users). then i get myself a list of all subscribers in my instance, using a crude `mailman lists | grep "@" | while read l; do mailman members "${l}"; done | sort -u`. finally i calculated the difference between the two sets. interestingly the results are quite different from the ones i got from your script: both sets contain users that are not in the other set. how come? gfmdras IOhannes

4 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] About the path forward [was: ... regarding message acceptance]

by Stephen J. Turnbull

I'm not Mark, but .... :-) "Plans", you ask? Hmm.... Pawel Grzywaczewski writes: > Any plans to implement message acceptance based on another list? I think that most Mailman 2.1 features are plausible proposals for Mailman 3. While we don't make decisions based on user voting, we do care about user requests. If you want to make a formal request, post a request for enhancement (ie, issue) on our GitLab issue tracker, and post a link here so other interested people can follow it. > What about adding list1 as member to list2? In Mailman 2.1 there > was an 'umbrella' feature I think it doesn't exist in Mailman3. > Any plans to add it? Same as above. I don't know Mark's plans, but he's been active on these lists. I myself hope to have some time for development later in the summer, but I've been away from the code for quite a while, and have at least two prior projects I've expressed interest in. I have no idea about Abhilash or Terri's time, except that they're always busy, and there are a couple of other developers who might drift back in at some point if something exciting starts happening. However, these kinds of additions described above are somewhat more complicated in Mailman 3 than they were in Mailman 2. We have added the ability to identify groups of lists as domains (and therefore have multiple lists by the same name if they are each in a different domain), and the ability to identify groups of email addresses as users. This means that there are more opportunities for unfortunate things to happen. For example, a user might have a particular address for posting to a particular list, and be unhappy if they were accidentally "unmasked" when they posted by a different address, and that post was accepted because those addresses are both owned by the same user. Whether you think this one is a "real problem" or not, we need to do more than a little thinking about such things as we improve Mailman. We missed the window for GSoC this year. We've had excellent success in getting students (I don't think we were ever denied a slot we asked for), so prospects for next year are good. I myself am looking at mandatory retirement in a couple of years, and am planning to ramp up development/consulting activity over this period. So I know a year is a long time, but we are actively supporting existing features, and intend to continue development for the foreseeable future. Finally, Brian Carpenter and EMWD are actively developing alternatives to Postorius and HyperKitty. (Affinity and Empathy, respectively; I believe Affinity is already in beta, Empathy I don't know about status). You can find out more about them in the Mailman Developers <mailman-developers(a)python.org> archives and in the archives of this list. These are independent friendly projects, not hostile forks. You may find them to provide more straightforward access to configurations you want, although they do depend on Mailman core for much "back office" functionality, and obviously they're less mature than Postorius and HyperKitty. But they have the advantage of targeting a much more mature Mailman core, so they'll catch up fast. EMWD hosts a lot of Mailman lists and hosts, so I for one would consider a request for features from Affinity developers to be representative of many list owners.[1] Footnotes: [1] Not to deprecate Empathy, but the relationship between core and any archiver is pretty much "arm's length". Archiver features are mostly independent of the core.

5 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Filter who can send on mailman3 list?

by Mark Sapiro

On 4/5/21 6:43 AM, marcus.granath(a)gmail.com wrote: > > So what I basically try do achieve is to have only the following addresses to be allowed to send announcements (e-mails) on the mailman3 list, and all others that are member of the mailman3 list will just receive the e-mails. The usual "announcements" are sent out as the "no-reply" address (that actually are not really part of the mailman3 list) ;-) > > no-reply(a)abc.com ("fake address" that actually are not really part of the mailing-list) > peter(a)abc.com > david(a)abc.com > marcus(a)abc.com > > How to achieve this kind of filter with mailman3? Header filters is not the way to do this. First set both "Default action to take when a non-member posts to thelist" and "Default action to take when a member posts to the list" to either Hold for moderation or Discard (no notification). Reject is not recommended because of backscatter from spam posts with spoofed From: addresses. Then ensure all members Moderation Action is set to None or List Default (two names for the same thing). Now, no one can post. To allow your set of users to post, you have choices. The easy way but not secure against spoofing is to set the Maderation Action for the three allowed members to List Default and toi create a non-member for no-reply(a)abc.com and set it's moderation action to List Default. The more secure way is to leave everyone moderated, set a moderator password for the list and post with an Approved: header or pseudo header. See <https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/rules/docs…>. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: mail stuck in "out" queue

by Mark Sapiro

On 9/16/22 10:49, Dan Caballero wrote: > > We're seeing some messages having the .bak files in the out queue for up to 30, 40 or even 60 minutes. I've increased the number of in and out runners to 8 each. Is there a way to know which runner has which message? If the .bak files eventually go away, this is because the message has a large number of recipients and delivery to the MTA is slow. For the out runner, look in Mailman's smtp.log for messages of the form: <message-id> smtp to <list> for nn recips, completed in tt.ttt seconds to see how long it's taking. If it seems too long (even with full VERP, it should be at least 5 to 10 recips per second), there are things you can do in the MTA to speed processing. In particular, don't do recipient validation at incoming smtp time - possibly configure an alternate submission port for Mailman to use. It shouldn't be necessary to slice the in runner and it processes very quickly. To answer your question, queue entries have a name of the form <timestamp>+<hex hash> with a .pck or .bak extension. The entry is assigned to a particular runner based on the first bits of the hash. For 8 slices this is the first 3 bits of the hash, so if the first hex digit of the hash is 0 or 1, that out queue entry will be processed by the out:0:8 runner; if it's 2 or 3, that out queue entry will be processed by the out:1:8 runner and so on through e or f processed by the out:7:8 runner. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Held messages not delivered after approval

by Stephen J. Turnbull

I see Mark answered some of the same questions already, but it would be really painstaking to avoid duplication (it took more than an hour to write this :-), so I'm just gonna scan it quickly and then send. Stephan Krinetzki writes: > My queues: (Omitting the empty ones.) > /opt/mailman/var/queue/out: > total 2868 > drwxrwx--- 2 mailman mailman 4096 Jul 31 13:26 . > drwxr-xr-x 14 mailman mailman 165 Jun 27 2024 .. > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 221708 Jul 30 13:16 1753874180.0845337+0cc7849043859a79dc3678a0d8b63c1c66df0c66.pck.tmp > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 733425 Jul 31 00:00 1753912841.8847518+da55f8789ae41b75d19a02b595e3fd6d45983ade.pck.tmp > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 17758 Jul 31 13:26 1753961185.0481033+6adf966467266567275f1146f5054c95e4365c13.pck Those two .pck.tmp files are bad news. They indicate that Mailman was trying to do something with those messages, and the process was interrupted. You should check whether there was a Mailman restart at those times (although it should shutdown gracefully and not leave .tmp files behind), or if a runner crashed. The .tmp files *may* be deliverable, but you'd have to look at them to be sure that they are complete. It's possible that they have been delivered already and the .tmp files just need to be removed. You can look at them with "mailman qfile" same as always, "qfile" doesn't check the filename extension. If they haven't been delivered and a careful check shows they're intact, just renaming without the .tmp will cause them to go to the head of the queue. It's also odd that the .pck above precedes the ,bak below (unless you have multiple slices for the out queue?) The rest of the queue looks normal, except that it seems rather long. I only see queues that long when the outgoing MTA is borked. (Although my experience with high-traffic systems is restricted to helping a couple of folks for whom there was zero cost to adding CPUs and memory to their VMs, I feel better that Mark picked up on this too.) You might want to reconfigure Mailman to use more out slices, but that depends on what else your MTA should be using its bandwidth for. Because of the way the slicing algorithm works, the number of slices needs to be a power of 2, so the number of simultaneous connections Mailman makes to the MTA will double. (I don't think there's any point to more than 4 slices unless you're doing more than one incoming post/second.) > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 31122 Jul 31 13:26 1753961185.1064982+b1f502e2af56b9b11680135c6de5fcc5285d967e.bak This .bak file is currently being processed by Mailman, it's normal. The rest of the .pck files are also normal, just waiting. (Omitting the rest of the out queue listing.) > /opt/mailman/var/queue/shunt: > total 3304 > drwxrwx--- 2 mailman mailman 4096 Jul 31 11:44 . > drwxr-xr-x 14 mailman mailman 165 Jun 27 2024 .. > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 451 Jul 31 00:00 1753912822.2651796+28eceef7e18eb70393377b88dc7117af8f9362a0.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 490 Jul 31 00:00 1753912838.4197352+ea531cf0262c1faa58b1679b907fee92bc16822c.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 1407870 Jul 31 00:00 1753912841.9177196+ccea15bdefce3a54301281c8eddf86e8230244a6.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 86108 Jul 31 00:00 1753912841.9197443+7dcef4febc71e44c6d9309a24a08b08753e1ff42.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 1407668 Jul 31 00:00 1753912841.9849963+a3f1869b750060c97262ece38737480d91652828.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 38992 Jul 31 00:01 1753912860.5167956+940584c4f361cbd8c29e390b2f60590558effe40.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 440 Jul 31 00:01 1753912860.6972685+635c065bac8dff5f9d562275d707001d773b84c1.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 445 Jul 31 00:01 1753912868.7903054+befa066f254d7a3529a8555a6c942a554715d837.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 33494 Jul 31 00:01 1753912878.7562895+82b724fd93260ab9a2bb49709d3a42a2f32f2c80.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 217073 Jul 31 00:01 1753912878.9337828+de73a65d9c6febfa80275853921f4b53fd1d9e2a.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 85888 Jul 31 00:02 1753912950.303359+8a87bce0be63ac1df8493c6b1ad6ae154fcedba7.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 50244 Jul 31 00:02 1753912950.4970112+d44d493912bb3024547b8a5112f86f035dcb352f.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 12887 Jul 31 00:02 1753912970.038427+31bcbd7fb2ebdf81f6de24b7283b50bcda6ded21.pck.tmp > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 443 Jul 31 11:44 1753955094.900898+67bc76525412da66a7c76363f65f583989716305.pck > > /opt/mailman/var/queue/virgin: > total 32 > drwxrwx--- 2 mailman mailman 81 Jul 31 13:17 . > drwxr-xr-x 14 mailman mailman 165 Jun 27 2024 .. > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 32013 Jan 11 2025 1736550035.6163204+472f81ece5e45a2651a4499bef418f611b43c619.pck.tmp > > Nothing special there (shunt should be checked, but not in > correlation with my mail). I tend to disagree, as the first series of shunt files ends with a .tmp. There's another one of those .tmp files in virgin, and it's 6 months old. Hmmm, that one is *also* on the hour. You got lots of cron jobs that run on the hour, maybe? You're probably right that there's no correlation, but you can't trust the dates from ls -l or stat because when running "mailman unshunt" all of the queue files in shunt will get "touched" if they're not sent. (If I recall correctly.) The fact that a spate of timestamps occur right at 00:00 means either there's a cron job running unshunt then, or you have a spammer or similar sending a bunch of broken mail to you on the hour. (I say you're probably right because the time stamp in the name decodes to the same time, and I don't think that changes when unshunt is run.) And again, you have a stale .tmp file there, which means something bad happened, most likely not under Mailman's control. There is (maybe was. by now?) a bug in the logging such that logs did not get properly rotated. Many sites dealt with this by restarting Mailman with the same period of the log rotation. Do you do that? (I'm just fishing, I don't know how it could cause the main issue you are seeing.) > mailq is empty, so my postfix works as expected. Hm. Those "high traffic" sites I mentioned, it was the other way around: with 4 (or 8) "out" slices, the out queue would be clear >80% of the time (according to "while 1; do ls -l $OUTQUEUE; sleep 5; done", nothing sophisticated). But the MTA's mail queue would typically backlog many minutes. As I said, the Mailman hosts at those sites were insanely overpowered, so your mileage will vary. I have to think that there is a problem in the handoff between Mailman and the MTA. Why Mailman is not preserving the queuefile or alternatively logging a successful delivery to the MTA I don't have any idea off hand. I have to think the queue runner is crashing, but that doesn't explain why this happens only to certain lists. Is Postfix delivering to the final destination itself, or does it pass on the messages to a smarthost? Is Mailman talking to the local MTA, or is it possibly talking to an MTA on a different node? I did have to diagnose a problem once where a system was misconfigured, and Mailman was talking not to the local Postfix but to a Postfix in a datacenter a megameter or so away! (That didn't lose any mail, but the connection would occasionally freeze and not time out, leading to a huge build up in the out queue.) Anyway, if Mailman isn't talking to an MTA with a <50ms ping time, you could try changing the configuration so it does. I don't put much stock in any of the above ideas. I hope that you or somebody come up with better ones! -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan

7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman 3 database restore unexpected behavior

by Mark Sapiro

On 3/28/23 04:00, Tibor Molnar wrote: > Mailman3 built from source using virtual environment. > Version: > GNU Mailman 3.3.8 (Tom Sawyer) > Python 3.9.2 (default, Feb 28 2021, 17:03:44) > [GCC 10.2.1 20210110] > config file: /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg > > Issue: > I have restored the database number of times recently and experienced that every time after restoration (an hour after) all members getting an email that they are unsubscribed due to bounces, however non of the users are actually unsubscribed from any lists. It looks like there are duplicates in database and all the duplicates are getting unsubscribed? > > Bounces message: > name(a)email.com unsubscribed from [listname] mailing list due to bounces That's an admin notice, not a notice to the user. > Only restoring two files: mailman3 and mailman3web > > Did anyone come acroos this behavior ? This seems sort of like <https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/…>, but it doesn't seem like that would be the issue here. > It is not right that after restoring a database all 1000 user get an email that they are unsubscribed, but they are actually not. > I may do something wrong during the restoring process. > Please advise me. The code that decides which users are to be removed is at <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/blob/master/src/mailman/model/member.p…> Somehow you must be restoring members whose delivery status is disabled by bounce and whose total_warnings_sent is >= the list's bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings. What do you get from this query on the mailman3 database SELECT email FROM member JOIN address ON address_id = address.id JOIN preferences ON member.preferences_id = preferences.id WHERE delivery_status = 3 AND total_warnings_sent > 0; -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Help with some 'withlist' configuration changes

by David Partain

Hi! Thank you, Mark, for giving me something to go on! I'll dig further. Cheers, David On Wed, 2021-06-23 at 06:59 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: On 6/23/21 6:30 AM, David Partain via Mailman-users wrote: Hi, Firstly, a repeat that I have a relatively broken (and soon to be fixed, I hope) installation of mailman3 based on Ubuntu 18.04 distrib packages (3.1.1-9) that stumbles along by me dealing with a bunch of things by hand that I hope'll go away once I'm up to the current version. In this set-up, I get a fair number of items shunted. Since I have this wonky version where stuff isn't always exposed in the web interface, I have to fix these things by hand. An example is that something gets shunted because of too many recipients, where I do: sudo -u list mailman withlist somemailmanlist m.max_num_recipients = 0 commit() sudo -u list mailman unshunt I've managed to find a number of these, such as m.max_message_size, m.require_explicit_destination, and m.administrivia. There is some other issue here as these things should only cause a message to be held, not shunted. Some exception is being thrown in the process of holding the messgage, and thaty is the real issue. What are the tracebacks in Mailman's mailman.log for these shunts? My questions are undoubtedly foolish, but here goes: 1. Is there any way to print the entire 'm' structure? If so, I'd perhaps be able to figure out the answers to my other questions. dir(m) or maybe you want >>> for x in dir(m): ... if not x.startswith('_'): ... print(f'{x}: {m.__getattribute__(x)}') ... 2. Is there a way for me to correct the following shunt-ing issues with 'withlist'? I've been unable to figure out how... a. 'moderation_reasons': [ 'Message has no subject'] / 'rule_hits': ['no-subject'] b. Some things get caught as 'rule_hits': ['nonmember-moderation']. However, if I look in the (web-based) config, it shows that non-members should be accepted but the messages are shunted nonetheless. I don't know what to look for in 'm' or how I might clear these messages. As I note above, these things are reasons to hold the message. The shunting occurs because something is going wrong in the holding process. Find the errors and tracebacks in Mailman's mailman.log to see what the real issue might be. 3. I have no idea what these are telling me to do about digest messages. Suggestions? This is the entire info I get from 'mailman qfile': ------------------------------------------------------snip snip---------------------------------------------- [----- start pickle -----] <----- start object 1 -----> <----- start object 2 -----> { '_parsemsg': False, 'digest_number': 457, 'digest_path': '/var/lib/mailman3/lists/somelist/digest.31.457.mmdf', 'lang': 'en', 'listid': 'somelistid', 'version': 3, 'volume': 31, 'whichq': 'digest'} [----- end pickle -----] ------------------------------------------------------snip snip---------------------------------------------- That is telling you there was in issue in sending the digest, the mailbox for which is /var/lib/mailman3/lists/somelist/digest.31.457.mmdf. Unshunting that will retry sending that digest. 4. I have some that have 'rule_hits': [] (it's empty) but are shunted nonetheless. I can't see anything weird other than one of the messages has a utf-8 subject. Any ideas? 5. Some messages that were sent to -request addresses (e.g., subscribe messages, confirm, approve messages) are being shunted. What should I do with these? You need to find the errors in the log and figure out what the underlying issue is. I'm guessing it's a permissions issue, possibly because of having at one time rum `mailman start` as root causing files to be created and owned by root and not be readable/writable by the Mailman user.

4 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Creating superuser - problem with documentation or it's just me?

by Mark Sapiro

On 7/26/20 9:39 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > Hi, > > In my quest to create a superuser, I followed another HOWTO - > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/devsetup.html > > (venv) [root@gw /opt/mailman/git/mailman-suite/mailman-suite_project]# > python manage.py migrate > Traceback (most recent call last): manage.py migrate (or django-admin migrate) is part if the mailman-post-update script. It doesn't work here because when you run it this way, it doesn't get your settings.py. > ModuleNotFoundError: No module named '_sqlite3' And it's looking for sqlite3 because that's the default database. > *<==============================================================* > (venv) [root@gw /opt/mailman/git/mailman-suite/mailman-suite_project]# pip > install pysqlite3 You don't need this. You need to run django-admin with the correct settings. > So I figured out that I need to put my own settings_local.py into the > directory and let the command rely on MySQL as the database backend since > by default, it uses sqlite3 backend. > > But the question then is WHY is this not documented on the above page??? Because that's not relevant to what you are doing. You are trying to install Mailman for production, not development. > How can I delete the superuser after creating it?? The only django-admin or manage.py you should run is /opt/mailman/mm/bin/djhango-admin. You can run `django-admin createsuperuser` to create a superuser. If you want to delete one, you need to go to the Django admin web UI - should be http://your.server/admin - login as a superuser and go to the Users page and delete it. You should probably do this as a different superuser -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Weird emails

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Paul Tomblin via Mailman-users writes: > I've got my server set up correctly (I hope) and on an https > connection, and I *think* I've got it set up so mailman-web will > only respond on localhost:8000, but I occasionally get a flood of > emails like this: > > > Internal Server Error: /admin/login/ > > > > DoesNotExist at /admin/login/ > > Site matching query does not exist. > The HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR was a clue where it was coming from, and > grepping through my apache access logs shows a script kiddie at > 185.177.72.38 hammering a miliion urls, 99% of them 404s. I recommend that you firewall that source IP into oblivion, even if you suppress the emails. Since it's getting to Python, you're spending a lot of cycles even if you return a response rather than reporting to owner. > Is there any way the code could just return a 403 or 418 instead of > getting a python error? If you're willing to suppress the email for *all* HTTP 5xx errors, you probably can do that in settings.py with LOGGING["loggers"]["django"]["handlers"].remove("mail_admins") Since you're getting an email, the error was handled. That means this behavior is intentional, but I can't say whether the intention was "we can't be bothered right now" or "we must do that because ...". The URL in question is a generic Django view so Mailman is not going to want to change it (we'd be forking Django internals). You'd have to ask the Django developers. Django channels would also probably be the best place to ask if there's a specific configuration option to suppress or aggregate the emails. -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan

1 week, 1 day

[MM3-users] Re: My Server is unable to connect to Mailman REST API few times

by Shashikanth Komandoor

Thank you Mark a lot. It worked awesome. You don't know how much you helped me. Thank you once again. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 8:56 PM Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > On 9/19/20 4:32 AM, Shashikanth Komandoor wrote: > > > > But I am trying to delete a list on an urgent basis. Because of which I > am > > getting the above said errors. I tried to delete > > through the interface, through curl command and through "mailman shell" > but > > nothing led me to a > > positive result. Is there any work around to delete the list ? > > What have you tried in Mailman shell? This should do it. > > $ mailman shell -l list.example.com > Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell > Use commit() to commit changes. > Use abort() to discard changes since the last commit. > Exit with ctrl+D does an implicit commit() but exit() does not. > The variable 'm' is the list.example.com mailing list > >>> getUtility(IListManager).delete(m) > >>> commit() > > So should just > > $ mailman remove list.example.com > > What happens if you do those? > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- Thanks & Regards, Shashi Kanth.K 9052671936

5 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Link to account

by Mark Sapiro

On 4/11/23 12:04, Lars Bjørndal wrote: > Thanks a lot. Maybe I've done a mistake, it doesn.t work. > > At the bottom of /etc/mailman3/settings.py I have: > > ROOT_URLCONF = 'urls' > > `cat /etc/mailman3/urls.py` > > [...] > > urlpatterns = [ > path( > '', > RedirectView.as_view(url=reverse_lazy('list_index'), permanent=True), > ), > path('lists/mailman3/', include('postorius.urls')), > path('lists/archives/', include('hyperkitty.urls')), > path('lists/', include('django_mailman3.urls')), > path('lists/accounts/', include('allauth.urls')), > path('lists/admin/', admin.site.urls), > ] > > In Apache config for the domain, I now have: > > <IfModule mod_proxy.c> > ProxyPreserveHost On > ProxyPass "lists/mailman3" "http://127.0.0.1:8000/lists/mailman3" > ProxyPass "lists/archives" "http://127.0.0.1:8000/lists/archives" > ProxyPass "lists/accounts" "http://127.0.0.1:8000/lists/accounts" > ProxyPass "lists/admin" "http://127.0.0.1:8000/lists/admin" > ProxyPass "lists/user-profile" "http://127.0.0.1:8000/lists/user-profile" > </IfModule> > > Restarted mailmanweb, httpd and mailman3. > > If I go to list.punktskriftutvalget.no/mailman3/, I get a 404 Not Found response in browser. > > So what's wrong, do you think? You followed https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/… literally. The literal instructions where to access everything via URLs like https://mydomain.org/lists/.... If you were to replace `lists` with `mailman3` everywhere in the abpve, you would then access HyperKitty via a URL like https://list.punktskriftutvalget.no/mailman3/archives/ and Postorius via https://list.punktskriftutvalget.no/mailman3/mailman3/ If that's not what you want, it's more complicated and some things might not be possible. What exactly do you want for access to Postorius, HyperKitty, user accounts, user profiles and the Django admin UI? -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: How to prevent members to attach executables (exe, bat, ...) to the emails sent to list

by Mark Sapiro

On 10/1/20 3:23 PM, Mohsen Masoudfar wrote: > Hi Mark, > Thanks again for the helpful hint. It seems that I still miss something. I am running Mailman3.1.1. I ran the following on my test server. > I am trying, for test purpose only, to filter PDF attachments. > > First I just used the pass_type, assuming once this is set, everything else is filtered. That's how it should work. > # mailman withlist testlist3(a)x.com >>>> m.pass_types = ['multipart', 'message/rfc822', 'text', 'application/pgp-signature'] >>>> commit() >>>> print(list(m.pass_types)) > ['multipart', 'message/rfc822', 'text', 'application/pgp-signature'] > > This let PDF be send by Mailman3. Well, I need to add filter_types too, so I did this: It shouldn't unless athe Content-Type: of the PDF part was text/* or application/pgp-signature >>>> m.filter_types = ['application/pdf'] >>>> commit() >>>> print(list(m.filter_types)) > ['application/pdf'] This should allow ONLY the PDF and nothing else, not even the text/* message body parts. > Mailman3 still distributes PDF files as attachment. What am I doing wrong? > > This is the final settings: > >>>> print(list(m.pass_types)) > ['multipart', 'message/rfc822', 'text', 'application/pgp-signature'] >>>> print(list(m.filter_types)) > ['application/pdf'] This is wrong. set m.filter_types =[] Look at the raw message you receive from the list. What is the VConten-Type of the PDF part? Actually, what's m.filter_content? I suspect it's False which means don't do any content filtering. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Getting original message headers

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Peter Chubb via Mailman-users writes: > To do that I need to find the original message headers. By the time > the message gets to the archive, or to the mailing list recipients, > all the Received: headers seem to have been deleted, leaving only > the ones from my list server outwards. That's not something Mailman does by default (maybe it does for anonymous lists?) For example, the Received chain in your post as I received it goes back through several subdomains of "chubb" before getting to mailman3.org. > Is there a way to access the original incoming email, before DMARC > mitigation etc., has changed the headers? What are you looking for in the received chain? If you just need the malicious source addresses and message-ids, those should be in the MTA log already. The only ways I can think of in a stock Mailman to preserve the original message are (1) emergency moderation, which should catch the mail before anything is done to it, and (2) reverting the anonymous configuration to default. In case (1) you can see the headers of held messages in Postorius, or with the "mailman qfile" subcommand. The held message remains in the "in" queue until its disposition is decided, I think. If you don't find it there, look around the queues (not bad or shunt, those have a different purpose) for messages that have been there for a while. In case (2), end recipients should get the whole received chain with the original from heder. The less disruptive way to do it involves configuring the MTA to both log the whole message to a file and send it to Mailman. To say more we'd need to know about your MTA. -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan

2 months

[MM3-users] postfix malformed address with confirm replies

by Stephen Willey Mats Mats

I’m getting bounces back from postfix (553 5.1.3 Error: malformed address) for my confirm replies. I found a similar issue in this lists’ archives back in 2017 but that issue was supposedly fixed in version 3.2 I’m running the current docker containers. I’m pretty sure I have all of the mailman settings in postix: " # Support the default VERP delimiter. recipient_delimiter = + unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550 owner_request_special = no transport_maps = regexp:/opt/mailman/core/var/data/postfix_lmtp local_recipient_maps = regexp:/opt/mailman/core/var/data/postfix_lmtp relay_domains = regexp:/opt/mailman/core/var/data/postfix_domains " the entries in /opt/mailman/core/var/data/postfix_lmtp look like they should match /^matsmats-mm3-test1(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-bounces(\+.*)?(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-confirm(\+.*)?(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-join(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-leave(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-owner(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-request(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-subscribe(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-unsubscribe(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 thanks, steve > On Feb 26, 2021, at 14:08:54 PST, Mail Delivery System <MAILER-DAEMON(a)ip-172-31-18-222.us-west-2.compute.internal> wrote: > > This is the mail system at host ip-172-31-18-222.us-west-2.compute.internal. > > I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not > be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. > > For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. > > If you do so, please include this problem report. You can > delete your own text from the attached returned message. > > The mail system > > <matsmats-mm3-test1-confirm+d6f77a2572ef55a8b2c4ca0d77de8493fbb55856(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu>: > host 172.19.199.2[172.19.199.2] said: 553 5.1.3 Error: malformed address > (in reply to RCPT TO command) > Reporting-MTA: dns; ip-172-31-18-222.us-west-2.compute.internal > X-Postfix-Queue-ID: E144B8BC3C5 > X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; stephen.s.w.matsmats(a)gmail.com > Arrival-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 14:08:54 -0800 (PST) > > Final-Recipient: rfc822; matsmats-mm3-test1-confirm+d6f77a2572ef55a8b2c4ca0d77de8493fbb55856(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu > Original-Recipient: rfc822;matsmats-mm3-test1-confirm+d6f77a2572ef55a8b2c4ca0d77de8493fbb55856(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.3 > Remote-MTA: dns; 172.19.199.2 > Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 553 5.1.3 Error: malformed address > > From: Steve Mats Mats <willey(a)selby.com> > Subject: Re: Your confirmation is needed to join the matsmats-mm3-test1(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu mailing list. > Date: February 26, 2021 at 2:08:52 PM PST > To: matsmats-mm3-test1-confirm+d6f77a2572ef55a8b2c4ca0d77de8493fbb55856(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu > > > > >> On Feb 26, 2021, at 11:41:54 PST, matsmats-mm3-test1-confirm+d6f77a2572ef55a8b2c4ca0d77de8493fbb55856(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu wrote: >> >> Email Address Registration Confirmation >> >> Hello, this is the GNU Mailman server at mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu. >> >> We have received a registration request for the email address >> >> willey(a)teamd.org >> >> Before you can start using GNU Mailman at this site, you must first confirm >> that this is your email address. You can do this by replying to this message. >> >> Or you should include the following line -- and only the following >> line -- in a message to matsmats-mm3-test1-request(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu: >> >> confirm d6f77a2572ef55a8b2c4ca0d77de8493fbb55856 >> >> Note that simply sending a `reply' to this message should work from >> most mail readers. >> >> If you do not wish to register this email address, simply disregard this >> message. If you think you are being maliciously subscribed to the list, or >> have any other questions, you may contact >> >> matsmats-mm3-test1-owner(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu > > >

5 years

[MM3-users] Re: mailman-web: ResponseNotReady

by Abhilash Raj

Hi, $ docker-compose rm -f mailman-web $ docker-compose up -d mailman-web This will basically create a new container for Mailman-web, but, since the state of mailman-web is stored completely in database (database container), I am not sure how to reset *just* mailman-web without dropping mailman-core related tables too (they share the same database but have their own separate tables). The above command will get you a fresh copy of code running. You can potentially get the list of tables and drop them, or maybe Diango has some way to reset it's state from Django shell (python manage.py shell, from inside mailman-web will get you shell). I may have to look it up. Also, just by looking at the traceback, I am not sure about the exact error. I may have to debug more to arrive at a better conclusion, which I won't able to do until after this weekend. Thanks, Abhilash On October 18, 2017 1:27:21 PM PDT, Dmitry Makovey <dmakovey(a)stanford.edu> wrote: >On 10/18/2017 12:28 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> On 10/18/2017 09:00 AM, Dmitry Makovey wrote: >>> >>> It seems like mailman-core is still operating properly, but for some >>> reason mailman-web is not. Can I reset mailman-web somehow to >re-initiate? >> >> >> I'm not very well versed in the docker images, but I think >mailman-web >> uses uWsgi and sending the uwsgi process a SIGHUP should do it. > >I think I didn't express myself clearly - I want to reset any saved >state for mailman-web - not just in-memory stuff. I've restarted my >setup several times with mailman-web having exact same problem every >time. > >-- >Sr System and DevOps Engineer SoM IRT -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

8 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Block members from sending cc's and bcc's

by Mark Sapiro

On 10/20/25 17:50, Cathryn McGuire wrote: > > Me: We've changed from Accept Immediately to Default Processing. We'll investigate other settings that might be making all message Held. The important thing is the reason why the message is held. > More importantly, what are you trying to accomplish? I.e. what do you > want to happen in the following cases? > > Message To: the list, no Cc: -- Accepted > > Message To: the list, Cc: to other address (non-member) -- Hold for moderation. > Message To: the list, Cc: to a member's address –– Accepted I don't think you can accomplish this one. You can hold all messages with a Cc: header with header filter which is close to what you want, but this won't distinguish between members and nonmembers in the Cc: header. There are other cases you might want to address such as multiple values in To:, one of which is the list and another is a nonmember, but I don't think you can accomplish that either. The best you can do in this case is a header filter on To: with a pattern that matches multiple addresses and a hold action. Such a pattern might be something like .*?@[^,]*,.*@ which will match anything up to the first @ followed by anything up to a comma followed by anything up to another @. The idea is it will match anything with two or more strings containing @ and separated by a comma. > Message To: somewhere else, Cc: to the list -- Hold for moderation. > > Message To: elsewhere, Bcc: to the list (require explicit destination > will hold this one) -- Hold for moderation. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 months, 2 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: After server upgrade debian 11→12 and reinstalling everything in (venv), I got this error when accessing → mailman3/lists

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Mark Sapiro writes: > On 9/22/25 05:21, Wikinaut wrote: > > Mark, this is great news, a little bit like expected! > > Thanks again for clarifying the term "generic" here. It's helpful > > to have it for definition of both, "regular" and "digest". > > > > Is this documented somewhere? > > I don't think so. I thought I had seen it "somewhere", but I can't find it now. It should be here: https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/release-3.1/src/mailman/rest/…. See https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/1243. Besides templates.html, this should be documented briefly in the forms for changing the generic, regular, and digest templates, something as simple as adding "if empty, falls back to generic:template" would do for the regular and digest specific templates, and "shadowed by regular:template and digest:template" for the generic template. Note that that is in the developer's documentation for the REST API. :-( We really need to reorganize the docs to be more discoverable for typical admins. > >I think, I need to create a wiki for mailman3. > We have a wiki at https://wiki.list.org/ for all versions of > Mailman. See the first paragraph at that page for info on obtaining > write access. But note that this is *not* appropriate for the wiki, which is more oriented to FAQs and news. Wikis are fine for formal documentation, but only if that's the ground truth. For better or worse, we chose not to do that. -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan

5 months, 1 week

[MM3-users] Re: List rename

by Joel Lord

Well, I've got a developer who has managed to figure out how to rename a list with a set of 3 SQL updates, then updating a few settings via the API. We've beaten the heck out of this at this point with a test list, I'm going to be actually renaming the lists in question tomorrow. Here's some kinda code-ish stuff that you can adapt, it's shell first, python, then more shell: update mailinglist set list_name = '${newname}', list_id = '${newname }.${domain}' where list_id = '${oldname}.${domain}'; update member set list_id = '${newname}.${domain}' where list_id = '${oldname}.${domain}'; update address set email = '${newname}-owner@${domain}' w here email = '${oldname}-owner@${domain}'; settings = dict( acceptable_aliases=['%s@domain' % oldname], display_name="%s" % newname, reply_to_address="%s@domain" % newname, reply_goes_to_list="explicit_header", require_explicit_destination=True, subject_prefix="[%s]" % newname) mv ${listsbase}/${oldname}.${domain} ${listsbase}/${newname}.${domain} mv ${templates}/${oldname}.${domain} ${templates}/${newname}.${domain} # rebuild aliases and virtual maps now I'd been kind of hoping for at least a way to extract the entire list config and subscriber list, then stuff those back in to a different list after a bit of massaging to change the name. Beefing up the command line ecosystem would be extremely useful, particularly for those of us who have been using MM2 forever. Also, just figuring out where things like call_http and dump_json were took my top developer over an hour and he had to resort to a bunch of 'grep -r's to do it. I'd tried and failed at that point, but I was figuring dump_json was some generic python module that we needed to install, rather than being part of MM3. So just adding the appropriate set of imports to the mailman shell documentation pages would really help and shouldn't be all that much of a time investment for anyone who actually knows the answers. Thanks for keeping this project going. I'm horrified that I might some day have to move the lists that I manage out to something like Google Groups with Google's prediliction for deciding they know better than the RFCs. On 10/5/2019 12:05 PM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > On Wed, Sep 25, 2019, at 9:04 AM, Joel Lord wrote: >> I'm in an odd situation where I need to rename a bunch of lists. They >> were all created on mailman2 originally and migrated to mailman3 (very >> successfully, TYVM) but the names were all originally >> discuss-<foo>@domain and it's very confusing to be sure you're always >> sending to the correct <foo>. We want to completely rename the lists to >> <foo>-discuss@domain. >> >> These lists do not keep archives, so if I have to resort to extracting >> the subscriber lists and the configs and building new lists, I'm >> completely fine with that. Problem is, I'm really used to MM2 and >> config_list and could do this without thinking using those tools... that >> I don't have. >> >> Running MM3 3.2.2 trying to make this happen. Any assistance I could >> get will be greatly appreciated. > > There isn't any way yet that allows renaming a list, not sure how hard would that be to achieve that. > > In theory, it should be easy since most places should be using list-id (which wouldn't change if you were to rename a list, as the RFC2919 says), but there might be a few places which are still using the posting-address as the identifier and might need change. > > I wouldn't mind a command or an API to modify the list's posting address. > >> >> THANKS! >> -- Joel Lord

6 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: using SSH/TLS with external MTA

by Mark Sapiro

On 7/28/24 06:26, Roland Giesler via Mailman-users wrote: > On 2024/07/28 00:39, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >> What do you see in Mailman's smtp.log and in the mail.log on the mail >> server? > > The smtp log is in syslog... The smtp.log I refer to is Mailman's smtp.log which is in Mailman's var/logs/ directory. > I think I see what's going on here. The mail is being sent from > postorius(a)giesler.za.net and there is no log entry on > box2.gtahardware.co.za that shows this logon attempt. So it seems it's > not going to that server, but rather to the local postfix. > > A mail was sent to root on the localhost with the following content: > > Return-Path: <root(a)giesler.za.net> > X-Original-To: root@localhost > Delivered-To: root@localhost > Received: from mailman.fast.za.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) > by mailman.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2174A120A5B > for <root@localhost>; Sun, 28 Jul 2024 13:11:03 +0000 (UTC) > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Subject: [Django] ERROR (EXTERNAL IP): Internal Server Error: > /accounts/login/ > From: root(a)giesler.za.net > To: root@localhost > Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2024 13:11:03 -0000 > Message-ID: <172217226313.2150.10895652368679013629(a)mailman.fast.za.net> > > Internal Server Error: /accounts/login/ > > SMTPRecipientsRefused at /accounts/login/ > {'roland(a)giesler.za.net': (454, b'4.7.1 <roland(a)giesler.za.net>: Relay > acce= > ss denied')} This is mail from django-allauth, not from Mailman. Your settings in mailman.cfg do not affect how this mail is sent. See https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/5.0/topics/email/#smtp-backend for the Django settings for this. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

1 year, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Question after upgrade to mm 3.2.3 and latest postorius

by Abhilash Raj

On Sun, Aug 11, 2019, at 2:49 PM, David Krantz wrote: > Thank you for your quick reply! Comments below. > > On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 10:03 PM Abhilash Raj <maxking(a)asynchronous.in> wrote: > > I would recommend that you bump up to 3.7 for the web part too, mostly because 3.5 is now has been in security maintenance state for a while. We will drop support for 3.5 after this next release (so you do have some time :), but I fear there *could* potentially be other dependent libraries who might have dropped 3.5 support. > > > > Even though we do run CI and we'd (hopefully) know when there is a dependent library seriously breaking, but since we don't pin down versions, newer releases can cause problems. > > > > The web-server plugin I assume is mod_wsgi? > > Good information. Of course it is mod_wsgi. > > > If you use a separate wsgi server than the one embedded in web-server, you can bump versions a bit more easily. gunicorn or uwsgi are recommended options. Do note that the new version of Mailman Core also uses gunicorn now. > > That might be simpler although I probably still will have to use > apache as passthrough as there are other things on that server using > port 443 (80) and yet another server running is not what I'd like even > if wsgi is a server process anyway as I understand it. I'll consider > that and change it. Right, using a webserver for passthrough (and, serving static content) is actually recommended practice since they are more battle tested for security + load than wsgi servers. We use gunicorn + nginx for running this very list. > > > 1. The index page with all lists is not sorted in any useful way > > > although it is based on something as the order seems to be stable. > > > Prior to the upgrade the lists were sorted in alphabetical order after > > > list name which is a lot more usable for me as admin. If I click the > > > link at the bottom with "click to view all lists" I get the old > > > behaviour. > > > > This change was made so that you will see only the lists you are a member of either as a subscriber, moderator or owner. This is default when you are logged-in, but when logged-out, you will see the old view with all lists alphabetically sorted. > > That is very good. It still is strange that this view is not sorted. Noted, thanks! https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/issues/379 > > > Are you sure the migrations are there? I can see the following list on the latest git master of Postorius (all the ones after 0004_ are related to emailtemplate): > > I thought so, but it seems as if they are not. That said I have not > used django for anything else. After setting up the > django-admin-script and modifying a few paths I got it to work > correctly. The run I had made did not work although it also failed > silently. Had I been used to django I'd known that it should print > "OK" and ticked boxes for performed migrations, but I just use django > for mailman-things. I would love to have some more time and sort out some minor annoyances with Django :( This might be a great opportunity for someone with Django experience to help make it easier, I have some ideas there which should already be in the issue tracker. -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

6 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: How To Install Mailman 3 on Debian 10 (Complete Guide)

by Lars Schimmer

On 27/02/2021 04:02, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Lars Schimmer writes: > > > Hm, it completely ignores the standard way for Debian: > > apt-get install mailman3-full > > also exim4 as standard mailer. > > And apache2. > > Right. The idea is that Debian is a *component* of *Brian's* system, > not that Brian is installing a Debian system. One problem is that a > lot of people like to run Debian Stable, which lags our releases by > many months, sometimes a couple of years. A lot of people run a > Debian Stable system plus a couple of mission-critical apps from > source or from upstream repositories. Maybe the debian packages are old because people do not care about and use always upstream because debian packages are old? I do know lots of software projects with recent debian packages for stable, testing and unstable. Esp. in the wide use of debian based systems all over the internet. One reason to run those system is the easyness in install and the stable function of its component. Not to need to install all software from upstream because no one cares about a recent package. > It's not necessary to "keep up" to be very helpful to our users, of > course. But I think Brian's document is likely to be the "gold > standard" for a while. I understand why Abhilash wants it in the > official docs. :-) If it should be a gold standard, it should mention the default setup of a standard debian system (which is exim4, btw) and not assuming a special setup debian system. > Steve > MfG, Lars Schimmer -- ------------------------------------------------------------- TU Graz, Institut für ComputerGraphik & WissensVisualisierung Tel: +43 316 873-5405 E-Mail: l.schimmer(a)cgv.tugraz.at Fax: +43 316 873-5402 PGP-Key-ID: 0x4A9B1723

5 years

[MM3-users] Re: List creation error

by Odhiambo Washington

On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 21:17, Brian Carpenter <brian_carpenter(a)emwd.com> wrote: > Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 15:36, Andreas Barth aba(a)ayous.org wrote: > > > > > > Odhiambo Washington (odhiambo(a)gmail.com) [210106 12:12]:PS: I could > probably have caused the error with some weird operation I > > > did: > > > Initially when postorius comes up, it has the domain - example.com > > > http://example.com. I am not sure > > > where it gets this. > > > > > > > > > example.com is the default domain from django. Renaming that via the > > > django (e.g. mailman3/admin/sites/site/1/change/ ) worked for me quite > > > well (without touching anything in the database by hand). > > > Hi Andi, > > I could be missing something still... > > > > At what juncture during the installation do you do this renaming? > > Where is this directory? On my setup, I have no such directory - but I > > could be missing something in the install process, maybe.. > > > > root@debian10:/opt/mailman# pwd > > /opt/mailmanroot@debian10:/opt/mailman# find . -type d -name sites > > > ./mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/jedi/third_party/django-stubs/django-stubs/contrib/sites > > ./mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/django/contrib/sites > > Do you find anything amiss with this HOWTO - > > https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Howto_Install_Mailman3_On_Debian10 ?? I > > find > > the guide rather straight and clear. > > That is my work in progress and thank you for the compliment. > > It's the one I am following - almost to the letter - except for the fact > > that I am using Apache+mod_wsgi+MySQL+Exim instead. > > I have configs in place by the time I run 'mailman info' portion. But > then > > again, when I run this command, I don't like what it prints because I see > > some reference to sqlite. > > Can you paste what the mailman info output is and the contents of your > mailman.cfg file? > My mailman.cfg file is below: [mailman] site_owner: odhiambo(a)gmail.com layout: here [paths.here] var_dir: /opt/mailman/mm/var [database] class: mailman.database.mysql.MySQLDatabase url: mysql+pymysql://mailman3:XXXXXXX@localhost /mailmansuite?charset=utf8&use_unicode=1 [archiver.hyperkitty] class: mailman_hyperkitty.Archiver enable: yes configuration: /opt/mailman/mm/mailman-hyperkitty.cfg [archiver.prototype] enable: yes [shell] history_file: $var_dir/history.py [mta] verp_confirmations: yes verp_personalized_deliveries: yes verp_delivery_interval: 1 incoming: mailman.mta.exim4.LMTP outgoing: mailman.mta.deliver.deliver lmtp_host: localhost smtp_host: localhost lmtp_port: 8024 smtp_port: 25 configuration: python:mailman.config.exim4 [shell] use_ipython: yes The output of `mailman info` is: mailman@debian10:~$ python3 -m venv /opt/mailman/mm/venv mailman@debian10:~$ source /opt/mailman/mm/venv/bin/activate (venv) mailman@debian10:~$ mailman info GNU Mailman 3.3.2 (Tom Sawyer) Python 3.7.3 (default, Jul 25 2020, 13:03:44) [GCC 8.3.0] config file: /opt/mailman/var/etc/mailman.cfg db url: sqlite:////opt/mailman/var/data/mailman.db *<=== I wonder why it's even referring to sqlite...* devmode: DISABLED REST root url: http://localhost:8001/3.1/ REST credentials: restadmin:restpass > > As it is, I believe my problem lies elsewhere, not possible to solve with > > your rename option. > > To get rid of example.com, I log into Django, create a new site using the > main list domain and note the site id. I then edit the settings_local.py > file and change the SITE_ID setting to the new site id of the main list > domain. You will need to restart mailman and qcluster I believe after > making that change. > I hope you will document this additional step of how to get rid of example.com. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", grep ^[^#] :-)

5 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: How to identify the exact reason behind the shunting of the mails ?

by Shashikanth Komandoor

Thank you Mark, Then I will try to upgrade the version Thank you once again. On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 8:01 PM Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > On 6/18/21 6:48 AM, Shashikanth Komandoor wrote: > > Dear Mark, > > > > FYI, I observed this issue with the postfix that receives the > > mails from the previous MTA and hands it over to the mailman. But I fixed > > at postfix by upgrading it to the version postfix 3. > > > > But still Mailman is not able to understand Hindi (Indian > local > > language) in which language the display names of the email ids are there. > > > > So, now what to do at Mailman so that it can also understand > > local languages or any work around or other alternate solutions for these > > sort of cases. > > > As noted in my reply at > > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… > the issue is a Mailman bug which is fixed in the next release. It has to > do with the fact that the display names are RFC 2047 encoded and not the > particular encoding. > > Actually, the fix at > https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/merge_requests/841 depends on > https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/merge_requests/652 which was > released in Mailman 3.3.2. A complete patch for versions < 3.3.2 is > attached. > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- Thanks & Regards, Shashi Kanth.K 9052671936

4 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Can't send emails to list users

by Rob Passalacqua

Hey Steve! Thanks for the reply. I've discovered more things that will be helpful. The users that were getting the emails were owners or list moderators of the list. The graduates list has ~2500 list members and 4 owners, which is why that one says 4 recipients. We changed nothing before it stopped working, but I discovered about an hour ago that if we change the 'default-owner-pipeline' to 'default-mailing-pipeline' in the list setting then all members start receiving the emails. This leads me to believe that there is some sort of corruption or erroneous behavior with that particular pipeline and I do not know why. now, to answer your questions: How many people are on each of the lists which exhibit this problem? we have 5 lists, 4 with ~2500 members and one with 16. all lists have the same pipeline issue. Have you checked for unsubscriptions or disabled subscriptions? Yes. All members are properly subscribed and there are no requests to approve. Are you sure all subscribed addresses have been validated by the subscribers? We don't check for that. All members get the emails if they are in the list, and we have a script that adds members and subscribes them that works well. How do you know only 3 recipients are getting the emails? because, for the test email list, the logs and the recipients showed that only 3 of the people on the list (who turned out to be the owners and/or moderators) were getting the emails. Is it the same person every time? no Is it the poster themself? no Is it a person who is also an explicit addressee yes Are they on multiple lists and only receiving one copy? no and no. if it works, they get every email we are using Microsoft exchange services, so the google thing isnt an issue.

2 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Bug in email.generator:_handle_text? [was: store/export existing Mailman lists ...]

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Oops, premature send. I did grep through the whole mailman core code base for "del", and didn't come up with anything that looks like it would delete fields like Content-Type and Message-ID (assuming the default for anonymous_list_keep_headers, I wish I had thought to ask about that, but who changes it?) I assumed Content-Type is modified by direct assignment in handlers that delete parts or transform them to a different MIME type. I wonder if his Python is old enough to not recognize negated regexps? That should be logged in errors. Or (as you guessed), the '(?!x-)' regexp (or the whole content of anonymous_list_keep_headers) has been removed? Stephen J. Turnbull writes: > Mark Sapiro writes: > > > This apparently confuses the Python email package so that the > > get_payload() method returns a list of strings rather than a list of > > message objects. > > Yes, I got that far too. I'm guessing that in the absence of a > Content-Type, which then *should* default to text/plain, the email > package goes ahead and detects the MIME headers anyway (although I > don't think it should do that) and breaks the message into MIME > parts. I would think we'd raise an Exception here. > > If there's a reason for the email package to do that detection > (*shrug*, it seems to work), then the dispatching in _handle_text > should be done on the Python type rather than the MIME Content-Type. > > I forget exactly how the code is structured, the relevant dispatching > may be in _dispatch or in _dispatch_meth. > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ >

3 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Trouble Installing Mailman3

by Henry Hartley

> -----Original Message----- > From: Stephen J. Turnbull <steve(a)turnbull.jp> > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2025 08:17 > Subject: [MM3-users] Re: Trouble Installing Mailman3 > > Henry Hartley via Mailman-users writes: > > > This isn't doing a lot for my self-esteem. > > I don't think you need to worry about you. :-) There are dozens of moving parts > involved, each of which sets its own requirements and is continuously being > updated. And you're working in a virtual environment, which is a fragile hack. > Works well if you treat it right, but does need care. Thanks for your encouraging words. > There are two ways those two messages can be consistent: that pip's version > number parsing is buggy, or those aren't the same pip. The former explanation, > while possible, is highly unlikely. > > One common explanation for this kind of conflict is that you did part of the > installation with the venv active, and part without. I know you wrote that you > are "running as the mailman user in venv", but just to double check, does "in" > mean "current working directory is venv" or does it mean "venv is activated > with '. bin/activate'" as well? You need to activate the venv to get all of the > paths (especially to the "pip" and "python" commands) right. Here's what I mean when I say I'm doing this "in venv" I've become the mailman user: sudo su - mailman The .bashrc for that user includes: source /opt/mailman/venv/bin/activate The prompt has (venv) at the left end of it: (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ All pip commands have been run in this state. I did first install setuptools with apt install python3-setuptools and that installed version 68.1.2-2ubuntu1.2. Note that I'm still not sure the firewall is completely out of the picture, since I do have to include the --trusted-host and --proxy options. Some things install, though, so I think that's OK. When I do this at the (venv) prompt, asking to install both setuptools and mailman-web: pip install --proxy http://webproxyta.westat.com:3128 --trusted-host pypi.org setuptools mailman-web The first line of the output is: Requirement already satisfied: setuptools in ./venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages (80.9.0) And that's followed by downloading (or using a cached version) of 11 items before I get the subprocess error. > I took a look at a fairly recent install of django-haystack, and in the .dist-info it > says the installer is 'pip' rather than 'pip3'. IMO this is bad practice, even today. > One possible explanation is that somehow at an intermediate stage the install > script is picking up a Python 2 pip, and IIRC Python 2 setuptools goes only to > 58.x or 59.x. > Or if you're in a Debian environment, I seem to recall the Debian Python 3 > environment does not provide setuptools at all (and deliberately makes it hard > to install outside of a venv). > > Check if your venv bin directory has a pip executable (or symlink to the > executable). If not, adding a symlink pip -> pip3 may help. There is no Python2 on the system so I'm pretty sure it's not that. The pip being used seems to be the right one and pip and pip3 seem to be the same: (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ pwd /opt/mailman (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ which pip /opt/mailman/venv/bin/pip (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ which pip3 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/pip3 (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ pip -V pip 24.0 from /opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/pip (python 3.12) (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ pip3 -V pip 24.0 from /opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/pip (python 3.12) (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ cmp venv/bin/pip venv/bin/pip3 (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ pip cache purge Files removed: 44 (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ /opt/mailman/venv/bin/pip install --proxy http://webproxyta.westat.com:3128 --trusted-host pypi.org setuptools mailman-web Requirement already satisfied: setuptools in ./venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages (80.9.0) Collecting mailman-web Downloading mailman_web-0.0.9-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (3.2 kB) Collecting django<4.3,>=4.0 (from mailman-web) Downloading django-4.2.23-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (4.2 kB) Collecting hyperkitty (from mailman-web) Downloading hyperkitty-1.3.12-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (3.6 kB) Collecting postorius (from mailman-web) Downloading postorius-1.3.13-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (2.9 kB) Collecting whoosh (from mailman-web) Downloading Whoosh-2.7.4-py2.py3-none-any.whl.metadata (3.1 kB) Collecting asgiref<4,>=3.6.0 (from django<4.3,>=4.0->mailman-web) Downloading asgiref-3.8.1-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (9.3 kB) Collecting sqlparse>=0.3.1 (from django<4.3,>=4.0->mailman-web) Downloading sqlparse-0.5.3-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (3.9 kB) Collecting django-compressor>=1.3 (from hyperkitty->mailman-web) Downloading django_compressor-4.5.1-py2.py3-none-any.whl.metadata (5.0 kB) Collecting django-extensions>=1.3.7 (from hyperkitty->mailman-web) Downloading django_extensions-4.1-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (6.1 kB) Collecting django-gravatar2>=1.0.6 (from hyperkitty->mailman-web) Downloading django_gravatar2-1.4.5-py2.py3-none-any.whl.metadata (4.3 kB) Collecting django-haystack>=2.8.0 (from hyperkitty->mailman-web) Downloading django_haystack-3.3.0.tar.gz (467 kB) ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━ 467.3/467.3 kB 22.3 MB/s eta 0:00:00 Installing build dependencies ... error error: subprocess-exited-with-error × pip subprocess to install build dependencies did not run successfully. │ exit code: 1 ╰─> [2 lines of output] ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement setuptools>=61.2 (from versions: none) ERROR: No matching distribution found for setuptools>=61.2 [end of output] note: This error originates from a subprocess, and is likely not a problem with pip. error: subprocess-exited-with-error × pip subprocess to install build dependencies did not run successfully. │ exit code: 1 ╰─> See above for output. note: This error originates from a subprocess, and is likely not a problem with pip. -- Henry

8 months, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Fwd: Re: Removing a mail addresses and users

by Abhilash Raj

On Wed, Jun 10, 2020, at 3:33 PM, Allan Hansen wrote: > All, > > This disconnect between Mailman Core and Django and Postorius is, by > far, the weakest and, for subscribers, most confusing aspect of MM3 > (once it has been installed, which is extremely hard and confusing). The disconnect was intentional to make sure that we are fully able to leverage the power of Django's ability to run multiple dis-connected applications in a single Site and Account system. And Mailman Core was intentionally designed to not be an account management system so it can be kept simple. The disconnect however has caused more confusion than has helped, which we acknowledge. But this disconnect doesn't exist all that much right now, barring any bugs. We synchronize most of the state from Postorius down to Mailman Core including, any additional addresses that you add, primary address etc. Display Names don't trigger an update in Core, but it isn't that hard to do if you open a ticket. > > In a true account-centric system, you set up a web account and from > there manage your emails and, for each email, your subscriptions. > Subscription options would be hierarchical: account/email/list, with > lower levels inheriting/overriding settings from/the level above. You are able to sign in via web and manage your email and subscriptions. The preferences also work exactly how you described above where the lower level override the default and/or upper level settings. > > That’s really what I had expected when I pushed for us to move our 50 > email lists to MM3 and I was very excited about the prospect, > as it would solve a lot of system/subscriber management issues I had > managing MM2. > > Alas, I was very surprised that that’s not how MM3 works. Some things > got harder, even, such as the inability to change subscription > addresses, which should have been a showstopper from the start! > I still hope that MMxx OOTB will get there, but I guess it’ll be along > haul. Would we be talking about MM4 to be released 20 years from now? As a Subscriber, you are able to do switch emails in subscriptions from your options page. The URL to which is displayed in the List's Summary page when you are logged in. Yes, it requires an approval if the list's settings are set to moderate but that is going to be fixed, see this issue[1]. It is quite simple IMO to fix this one, if someone wants to take this up. [1]: https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/issues/425 Are you asking about switching emails as an administrator for your subscribers? > Some dedicated and skilled developers are currently investing heavily > in a replacement for Postorius, but I really believe that any work is > better spent transforming Mailman Core etc. into a true account-based > system. Then, and only then, will it make sense to build new and better > interfaces on top, as, without a healthy core, such interface will > currently may have to inherit the confusion and disconnect that > currently is so aggravating. I don't know if we want to add account management to Core, but User management is missing from Postorius, that is true. We punted on it and delegated that part to Django's admin interface. Long long time ago, I remember seeing that there was a User's tab for managing users, but that has since changed I think. If you and some others on this list would like to propose an RFC here[2], it would be a great help for me. What I am basically looking for is what kind of "User management" are administrators looking for. It doesn't have to be too detailed but a single line example would be: - As a Admin, I would like to delete a User completely from my system, including all their addresses and subscription - Also, it would be good to delete their account but retain their subscriptions - As a Admin, I would like to update User's attributes in the system like: - Manually verify their email address - Manually update their Name - As a User, I would like to delete my own account and all the subscriptions. Maybe this could be a starting point, but something like this can be added to Postorius. [2]: https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/issues/new As for the question in this thread, you are able to delete the User from Django's admin page and that would delete all the related EmailAddress for them. Deleting an Email address doesn't delete the User, since the relationship exists that User owns Emails. There is currently no way to delete all the subscriptions for a User though. > The above is not meant to aggravate the MM3 development team, for which > I have utmost respect and gratitude, and which I admire for their > tireless support given over decades to the community of admins. > Software development is devilishly hard and time consuming. And thank you for posting what you think is an important enhancement to Postorius. We don't have a very strict process to choose what new features to work on, so email like this do help us prioritize. Other users could also help by upvoting or just adding "+1" to the bugs/feature enhancements that affects them the most so we can fix them sooner rather than later. I would be more than happy if more people participated in just being able to prioritize features, all the work really happens in the open on Gitlab. As administrators of some 'open source' lists, the needs of us as admins are somewhat different from what would be in a closed organization and ability to kick someone completely out of the system is something never I had to do since folks are supposed to manage their own subscriptions. We do ban people from sending emails if they've been spamming, but that is a different thing, they are still able to login into Postorius AFAIK. > Yours, > > Allan Hansen > hansen(a)rc.org > > > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > > From: Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> > > Subject: [MM3-users] Re: Removing a mail addresses and users > > Date: June 10, 2020 at 12:46:01 PDT > > To: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > > > On 6/10/20 10:23 AM, Abhijith PA via Mailman-users wrote: > >> Hello. > >> > >> I tried to remove random email address signing ups (which I signed up > >> while testing) via admin panel. After removing I tried to sign up again, > >> but I am getting, > >> > >> 'A user is already registered with this e-mail address' > > > > You removed the user's subscription from the list, but you didn't remove > > the user from the system. > > > > Mailman3 has a concept of `user` which didn't exist in Mailman 2.1. > > User's have addresses and a user or one of the user's addresses can > > belong to a list with one or more roles (non-member, member, moderator > > or owner) > > > > > >> Combing through the database, I found auth_user table in mailman3web db > >> still contain those mail address. How to wipe email address entirely > >> from the db so I can signup again without the 'forget password' method > > > > There are a couple of things. If you log in to the web UI as a django > > superuser, you can go to the django admin UI -> Users section and delete > > the User, but I think that will only delete the web user and not delete > > the user from Mailman core. > > > > You can also log in to the web UI as the user and go to > > <https://lists.mailman3.org/user-profile/delete>, but that again only > > deletes the web user, and if you could do that, you could just subscribe > > once you're logged in, so I assume that's what you want to avoid. > > > > I don't think there is a way for a user as opposed to a site admin to > > delete her user record from Mailman core and even for a site admin, > > there's no way in Postorius to delete a user from core. It has to be > > done via REST > > <https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/rest/docs/…> > > or `mailman shell`. > > > > -- > > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

5 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Filter response from Mailman3 held messages queue.

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Andy Matthews writes: > I've found some libraries which can parse the message property and > extract the relevant bits, but I'd rather pass some sort of flag or > filter to the initial Mailman 3 API call and get back less > information. Before I express my opinion, note that I am not authoritative on this, but I have a decent record on channeling the consensus. So YMMV FWIW I'd be against putting such a thing into the core without a lot of beta testing, I think. I imagine there would be various opinions on how much less and which data should come back. There is a plugin architecture which specifically can be used to implement REST routes: https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/plugins/do… While doing it this way undoubtedly makes it more complicated for the initial implementer, I think it would be a lot simpler (more self-contained) for people who want to implement different filters, etc. > I've looked through the documentation but I'm not finding anything > of the sort. I don't think there is for this, although there's a certain amount of code for filtering the messages that are being processed (stripping attachments of specified MIME types, converting text/html to text/plain, etc). I'm not sure if that's done in advance of holding for moderation. So maybe it would be OK to repurpose that code to your end (though I'd want it to be a proper refactoring, not cargo culting the post distribution filter into the moderation code), and somebody would need to do the same for Postorius. Not necessarily you (I infer you're talking about a separate application that talks to Mailman core for moderation), but availability to Postorius users with common administrative UI would make it a lot more attractive to us.

1 year, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Moderator e-mails only going out once a day

by Stephen J. Turnbull

jkoral(a)luc.edu writes: > Looking at the queues, I see 27 .pck files under shunt from Nov > 14th. Could that be the issue why moderators are not getting their > e-mails right away? No. That is way too old to be the cause of the current moderation issue. Presumably that occurred either at time of upgrade due to some initial misconfiguration, or during a period of network glitching, or possibly it's a spate of spam. The paranoid thing to do with those messages is use "mailman qfile <file>" to examine them, delete any that are unneeded, and use "mailman unshunt" to send the rest (possibly with a separate message from you to subscribers explaining why old messages are suddenly appearing). But you could just assume they're obsolete and delete them. I use cd /path/to/queue/shunt for file in *.pck; do mailman qfile $file | less; done and take notes of which to delete in such situations. > Can I clear the queue by just deleting these files? No. You should *never* delete files in shunt or bad in hopes of resolving an issue. Translated into English, "shunt" is Mailman telling you "as far as Mailman can tell, these messages should be deliverable but something is going wrong, and I need your help to get them sent". Implied is "if *you* don't fix the 'something' for me, it will happen again and I will shunt again." It was worth a try to look at shunt, but unless something very weird is happening to file timestamps, those aren't your missing notifications. I wonder if *owners* get immediate notifications if they are not listed as *moderators*. I seem to recall that they didn't (but maybe I'm imagining things). I don't have time to check right now. Steve

11 months, 1 week

[MM3-users] Re: Some doc updates from Fedora install experience

by tlhackque

On 26-Jun-17 15:31, Abhilash Raj wrote: > Excerpts from tlhackque--- via Mailman-users's message of June 24, > 2017 4:21 am: >> I had to read code to discover that the web UI (Postorious) server >> address doesn't exist in any config file. > > That is True, there is no stright forward way for Mailman Core to know > who is > using the API and where is the Web UI working. I *think* "Web Host" is > used to > generate emails, but that can't always be completely accurate because > there is > no easy way to know what is the "root" url for Postorius and > Hyperkitty. Generally, the default configurations place it at > "/postorius/" and > "/hyperkitty/", but there are installations where it is placed at > "/mailman3/" > and "/archives/". > It would be helpful for API users to "register" with Mailman, so that API clients can figure out how to direct users to their web pages. There has to be a directory somewhere, and Mailman is the central character. It doesn't have to be one place. Perhaps something like "get( '/lists/config/admin_ui') and get('/lists/config/subscriber_ui") - which could return something like: [ {"type":"gui", "name":"postorius", "uri":"https://www.example.net/mailman3/"}, {"type":"cli","name":"mailmanclient","uri":"domain://my.socket.example.net:1234"},{"type":"gui","name":"mailmanx","uri":"file:///usr/sbin/mailman-Tk"}, ...] (Where the order indicates preference). Speaking of which, without this knowledge, how can Mailman provide the personalized "to unsubscribe, visit your account at "...." customizations"? I see that there are URLs for headers/footers, but we seem to have lost the ability to insert the URL for the GUI managing your list/account into personalized e-mails... >> >> To bind it to something other than localhost, you put the desired ip >> address & port on the >> >> `python manage.py runserver` command line (in mailman-suite_project. > > Ok, so you should never use this in production. AGREEED > This command starts a > "development" server which is only supposed to be used in the development > environment. My development environment is a VM for Mailman, and other VMs for the mail server. And if I try to run a web browser on the Mailman VM, it takes over the machine and even so is unresponsive. So I needed to make the UI visible on the network where my PC is. I do understand the issues, and there are firewalls protecting the environment. > For any production use, in general for any python web app, we use a > wsgi server which interfaces between Django and a "real" web server > like Nginx > or Apache. I would recommend using uwsgi. This[1] and [2] might be of > help. > AGREE. I know that I will have to do this eventually. But my immediate goal is to see if it's possible to get my application talking to Mailman V3 - it's a 1-user environment. So I needed an evaluation environment with the absolute minimum setup costs. If things work out, I'll do the right thing. If not, I can't afford to have spent a week or so untangling nested webservers talking to each-other with frameworks, a half-dozen passwords and config files. This was the quickest path I could find to an 'almost out-of-the-box' evaluation and prototyping environment...and pretty much the only "step-by-step" instructions that I could find. I'd have tried "step-by-step" for production if (a) I could find it and (b) I could configure it with less than a couple of days of study :-( I decided to document this in case it helps someone else. I strongly agree that it's not production, and not for all users. > There is some configuration over here[3] that might help you get it > running. You > would have to change some parameters in the configuration though. > >> >> It must be an IP address - it doesn't resolve DNS names. The port is >> appended to the IP address with a ':'. >> >> So, in venv 2.7 >> `cd mailman-suite_project && python manage.py runserver >> 10.0.0.11:8000` will work. >> >> There are all sorts of issues if your network is at all public, but >> in my >> case, a multi-machine walled garden, with no local web browser, it >> allowed >> bootstrapping to continue. > > It is not supposed to be public and should only be used for development. > Agree, agree, agree. >> >> The runserver command also takes --ipv6 (or -6) to bind to an IPv6 >> address, >> --nothreading and --noreload also exist (but i haven't tracked down >> whethere >> they're useful') > > There are a whole lot of other optins available to `python manage.py` > command > which you can find in the documentation for Django. Truth be told, I had no idea that 'runserver" had anything to do with Django. I was just following instructions to get something out of the box and onto the wire. FWIW, 'python manage.py --help' and 'python manage.py help runserver' are semi-intructive. I still have no clue what an "auto-reloader" is, but the help does say that --noreload won't use it :-) It's clear that a lot of work has gone into this release -- but it's also quite frustrating for people who just want to explore using it to get through the setup effort. I've made some progress. > -- > thanks, > Abhilash Raj

8 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: spanish localization

by Victoriano Giralt

On Fri, 2021-02-12 at 19:53 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Victoriano Giralt writes: > > > Mark, I'd say the Mailman core message files taht get installed by > > pip are "a bit outdated" (source files dates point to a nightly > > build) ... proof here: > > I don't understand what you think this proves. We can't do the > translations ourselves; we don't have the lingistic skills. So the > dates on the .po files are going to reflect translator activity as > well as core dev activity. Am I missing something that we can do > something about? Thanks Stephen for reminding me that sometimes I write what looks like proper English on the surface, but the meaning of it comes from the deep corners of my mind in some long forgotten dialect :-) I just wanted to make visible that the .mo files were a "bit old". For example, Guillermo, in this thread, pointed that the Spanish translation was quite compelte. Actualy, I spent some hours bringing them to 100% around Christmas. But, the .mo file for es from the pip install --update i did recently is dated November 7th. I have definitely added a lot of translated material from then until the end of the year. I know the translation happens outside the development community. I tried to point that there might be some synchronisation problem, so to say, between the translation site and the packaging of the latest mailman release. I hope this time I've managed to express myself better ;-) I swear my brain was thinking in English as a wrote :-) :-) -- Victoriano Giralt Innovation Director Digital Transformation Vicerectorate University of Malaga +34952131415 SPAIN ================================================================== Note: signature.asc is the electronic signature of present message A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure ? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email ?

5 years

[MM3-users] About mailing list configuration problem

by Stephen J. Turnbull

liutianhua68(a)163.com writes: > 1. When a user subscribes, how to configure it like > "lists.mailman3.org" to send a link to confirm the subscription > instead of just replying to the confirmation email. Not sure what you mean. mailman3.org lists are just configured with a standard setting, may even be default: in the settings tab, member policy page, set subscriber policy to "confirm". They can reply to the email address or use a link in the email. > 2. I used the mailling list I created to test the sending and > receiving of emails, but I didn't see any historical messages in > "Archives",Where is the configuration incorrect? What do you mean by "historical messages"? Do you mean the test messages? The information is insufficient for a confident diagnosis, but I would guess that you have not configured the mailman-hyperkitty add on, which is a few lines of Python code that Mailman core needs to send messages to the HyperKitty archiver. > And the url of my mailing list is "https://list.example.org/hyperkitty/list/" > instead of "https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/", is this > a problem? No. The documentation and the defaults are not entirely consistent on this. Both work, some sites prefer one, some the other. I think that in fact you can make both work with a couple of lines of Python in the Django configuration. > Also ask about the configuration, where to find the relevant > documentation. There's not a lot of separate documentation. The explanations in each settings page are the main documentation. The idea is that list administrators should go through all the settings anyway, to make sure that the defaults are satisfactory for their lists, or change them. In the summer we plan to work on a feature that makes it easier for a list administrator to copy from one list to another.

3 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Auth question

by David Krantz

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 1:06 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > To be more specific, the projects that are required for a fully > functioning Mailman installation with Postorius and Hyperkitty are > > Mailman (the core) > > Hyperkitty (the archiver) > > Postorius (the web list management UI) > > django-mailman3 (common django things used by Postorius and Hyperkitty) > > MailmanClient (python bindings for the core REST API used by Postorius > and Hyperkitty) > > HyperKitty - Mailman plugin (plugin for the core to communicate with > Hyperkitty) > I tried to upgrade today. The result is a broken install which fails when trying to upgrade the database. $> ./bin/mailman-post-update [...] File "/opt/mailman/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.17-py2.7.egg/django/db/backends/base/base.py", line 236, in _commit return self.connection.commit() File "/opt/mailman/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.17-py2.7.egg/django/db/utils.py", line 94, in __exit__ six.reraise(dj_exc_type, dj_exc_value, traceback) File "/opt/mailman/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.17-py2.7.egg/django/db/backends/base/base.py", line 236, in _commit return self.connection.commit() django.db.utils.IntegrityError: update or delete on table "auth_user" violates foreign key constraint "social_auth_usersocial_user_id_193b2d80880502b2_fk_auth_user_id" on table "social_auth_usersocialauth" DETAIL: Key (id)=(3) is still referenced from table "social_auth_usersocialauth". I have tried to drop and recreate the databases but I get the above result anyway. The description in https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%203%20installation%20experience is very hazy. The process of symlinking in libraries is fiddly to say the least. I get mailman to start but not any web interface. I have not tested mailman so if it works rather than just start I do not know. There is a description for a clean install for development at http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/devsetup.html, but I suspect that it isn't usable for anything other than development. I have read it parallell to try to interpret the installation experience description which in turn describes more of what I am trying to do. No luck though. regards // David

8 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Strange issue with bounce processing

by Mark Sapiro

On 12/25/20 6:36 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote: > Dear List, > > First of all Merry Christmas to those of you that are observing it. > > I have an issue on one of my Mailman 3 servers. The bounce runner is not > running, even after restarting mailman core. All the other runners are > working fine. Here is the problem, after restarting it, a number of > messages show up in queue/bounces from a single list. What happens if instead of restating core, you stop and then start it? > However the bounce > runner is still not running. So I remove these messages from > queue/bounces folder and restart mailman core. The same messages show up > from the same single list again in queue/bounces. In the > var/logs/bounce.log file, addresses from this list are being logged as > being removed after starting mailman core. They correlate with the > messages showing up in queue/bounces. Bounce runner doesn't actually do much with received/queued bounces. It just gets the bounce and stores a bounce event in in the bounceevent table in the database. It then periodically processes the unprocessed events in the bounceevent table. See <https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/model/docs…>. > I assume these "cached" bounces are what is interfering with the running > of the bounce runner. I don't see anything in the mailman or > mailmansuite log that would explain this behavior. How can I fix this? I don't really understand what's going on. The only messages which get queued in queue/bounces/ are messages to the LIST-bounces address delivered from the MTA, unless possibly they are somehow in queue/retry/ and being retried. What do you see in the MTA logs? -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: migration plan and auto responder

by Mohsen Masoudfar

Hi, The short version of this question is: How May I setup on Mailman2 to send an auto response to the member who sent an email to the list, but do not send the original email to any list member? I need this functionality during and after migrating the list to a new list server, where the domain name has to be changed. The auto response should inform the list member, who sent the email to the old list, about the name of the new server and domain. Thanks Mohsen -----Original Message----- From: Mohsen Masoudfar <mmasoudf(a)aaas.org> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 12:30 PM To: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org Subject: [MM3-users] migration plan and auto responder [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Hi, I am writing this in the hope to get some good advises for migration lists from Mailman2 to Mailman3. Thanks a lot in advance. Here is the requirements: * During the migration the old system shouldn't process the emails for the list under migration in the normal way. It should send an email, and only one to the member who sent the original email to the list saying the list is under migration. I know I could do this by auto responder, but the original email would be processed and sent to all members, which I want to block . * After migration the old system should send, per auto responder again, an email to the member who sent to the list, mentioning the new address (the domain is a new one, the list name the same), but again not sending the original email to the list members. * No hackers, robots, spammers should get the new list address. The lists are all hidden. Best regards Mohsen Masoudfar Lead System Analyst, IT Operation American Association for the Advancement of Science 1200 New York Ave, NW, Washington, DC 20005 202-326-7087 _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.mai…

5 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Apple Mail encoding again

by Mark Sapiro

On 4/14/22 08:21, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Mark Sapiro writes: > > > That combination at least produces multipart/signed messages with > > multipart/* parts containing a Content-Transfer-Encoding: header. > > > > The Python 3 email library considers this to be a > > InvalidMultipartContentTransferEncodingDefect() message defect. > > Merely containing C-T-E is not an error per RFC 2045, although it > seems to consider it a stupid thing to do. If present, it may be > "binary", "7-bit", or "8-bit" (below summarized as "cleartext"). > > Did Apple Mail apply a non-cleartext C-T-E? Or has an RFC tightening > that restriction been published since? (I don't know why it would, > though.) Yes. The C-T-E on all the multipart parts was quoted-printable, not allowed under RFC 2045. > Even with a non-cleartext C-T-E, it seems reasonable for Mailman to > treat it as application/octet-stream and pass it through, unless the > list is configured to do something like strip application/octet-stream > or that requires decoding like spam-filtering (Postel principle, > although one could argue it shouldn't be sent on on the same principle > -- ah, the joys of being an e-mail Mediator). That would be > especially true it if were quoted-printable, since any relevant MIME > headers would (presumably) be pure ASCII and therefore unencoded. The Python email library says the message is defective. Mailman's lmtp runner in turn rejects the defective message with a 501 status https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/blob/master/src/mailman/runners/lmtp.p… It could accept a defective message or one with specific defects, but this is problematic for further processing. For example, at least one MUA, Thunderbird, renders such a message with an empty body. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Restore/export existing Mailman lists + hyperkitty archives on a new server

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Kimmo L writes: > > What does mailman conf -k anonymous_list_keep_headers > > show, and what is the content of mailman/handlers/cleanse.py? > Command output: [mailman] anonymous_list_keep_headers: Mark may have more suggestions, but this is almost certainly the cause of the problem. The default for this parameter is anonymous_list_keep_headers: ^(?!x-) ^x-mailman- ^x-content-filtered-by: ^x-topics: ^x-ack: ^x-beenthere: ^x-list-administrivia: ^x-spam- which is a list of strings separated by spaces, and I believe the leading space on the second line is significant (meaning a continuation of the list on the first line). There are a number of possibilities that cause this. (1) Check whether anonymous_list_keep_headers is set in mailman.cfg. If it is, it may be all you need to do is remove a spurious newline after the keyword anonymous_list_keep_headers. Otherwise, you can restore the default by copying the setting above. (2) If not, schema.cfg is corrupt or missing, and the default setting for anonymous_list_keep_headers is empty. In that case you should get a pristine copy of schema.cfg to compare to and check for any other undesired changes. If you actually intended to change the value of this parameter, (1) you must keep the ^(?!x-) because this protects all the standard fields like To, From, Content-Type and Message-ID that are essential for any mail system; (2) you should keep the following: ^x-mailman- ^x-topics: ^x-ack: ^x-beenthere: ^x-list-administrivia: because they are used internally by Mailman, and do not contain any identifying information; (3) you probably should keep ^x-content-filtered-by: because it is used by Mailman, and should not contain identifying information; and (4) you may want to remove x-spam- because they occasionally identify MTAs upstream of you, but this degree of anonymization is rarely needed. > And content of mailman/handlers/cleanse.py: This appears to be unchanged from the distribution, as expected.

3 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Using MySQL via unix socket

by Torge Riedel

Am 02.02.19 um 19:06 schrieb Mark Sapiro: > On 2/2/19 5:31 AM, Torge Riedel wrote: >> A call to >> >> mysql -umailman -p >> >> successfully uses the socket on the machine and logs in. > > Yet you haven't specified -S or --socket > > >> I tried >> >> mysql+pymysql://mailman:mailmanpass@127.0.0.1/mailman3?charset=utf8&use_unicode=1&unix_socket=/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock >> >> >> as the connection string but it says that mysql server is not available. >> Which is the same if remove the "unix_socket" parameter. I have found >> this parameter when searching the net, but I'm not sure if it is supported. > > I think it should be, but the actual connection is via the the > sqlalchemy create_engine() function. It appears this should be passed to > the pymysql Connection() function per > <https://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_1_2/core/engines.html#custom-dbapi-args> > > What happens if in a Python 3 session, you do > > from pymysql import connect > conn = connect('127.0.0.1', > user='mailman', > password='mailmanpass', > database='mailman3', > charset='utf8', > use_unicode=1, > unix_socket='/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock') > > As I understand it, that's what sqlalchemy should be doing with your > database url. In my testing, the above works with or without the > unix_socket= argument, so I suspect something else is wrong in your case. > Hi, thanks a lot for your answer. Yes, sounds valid that something else is (or was) wrong in my environment. I'm new to docker containers and might have overseen something. I now managed it a different way: I used rinetd on the host to redirect connections from docker host ip of a bridged network to 127.0.0.1 to make MySQL accessible in the docker container. This works and avoids mapping the mysqld.sock file into the container. Thanks again Torge

7 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Database deadlock when trying to delete a member.

by Simon Coggins

Hi, I’ve got a strange error. I migrated from mailman 2.1 to 3 using the migration guide on the website and things have been working fine. But I’m in the process of testing the new syncmembers command to replace some inhouse mailman API code we wrote. I’ve tracked my problem down to what appears to be a deadlock in the postgresql database. When trying to delete certain users the SQL query hangs and never returns. After doing some tracing and tracking it down to the database, I enabled DB logging of all queries and saw that the following query was never returning: DELETE FROM member WHERE member.id = 166814 If I try to run it manually I get the same issue, in psql it never returns. mailman=# explain analyze DELETE FROM member WHERE member.id = 166814; [… 60 seconds passes…] ^CCancel request sent ERROR: canceling statement due to user request CONTEXT: while deleting tuple (2998,72) in relation "member" I’m just wondering if there are any commands or scripts I can run to verify the database and it’s constraints to see if there is some error in the database data? Or where you’d recommend I go from here? It only impacts the user on this specific list. If I add this user to another list and remove them, everything works fine. This is on a test system so I can do various testing. I’m trying to find the root cause so that I can verify my production system isn’t impacted by the same thing. Setup Details: OS: Oracle Linux 7 (Redhat) Installed using pip via virtualenv talking to a local pgsql database on the same box. Data was migrated from a mailman 2.1 install into mailman3 using migration instructions on the website. PIP Modules versions: django-mailman3 1.3.5 mailman 3.3.3 mailman-hyperkitty 1.1.0 mailmanclient 3.3.2 postorius 1.3.4 psycopg2-binary 2.8.5 RPM packages: postgresql12-12.6-1PGDG.rhel7.x86_64 postgresql12-server-12.6-1PGDG.rhel7.x86_64 postgresql12-libs-12.6-1PGDG.rhel7.x86_64 postgresql12-devel-12.6-1PGDG.rhel7.x86_64 -Simon

4 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman 3 with AWS auto scaling and potentially load balancing

by Abhilash Raj

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018, at 7:35 AM, Chris McMacken wrote: > After doing a lot of googling I can't seem to find solid answers to a > couple of basic mailman hosting questions so I thought I would ask here. > > I'm looking to build an auto scaling group so that my mailman services > can self heal if the EC2 instance goes away. What state if any is stored > locally on the filesystem that would need to be backed up and restored > when an instance is replaced? Maliman Core, the engine that sends and receives emails stores messages in queues on disk. Usually this is all inside "var" directory, but they may be scattered depending on where you install Mailman 3 from. So, you'd have to backup all those directories from the host. Apart from that, Mailman Core and Django frontend all store most of their other data in a databases and you can backup-restore them using usual methods. > > I'm also interested in a high availability deployment so I would like to > do some basic load balancing to ensure that this requirement is met but > I haven't been able to find much on this topic for mailman 3. Since Core store some state on disk, it won't be possible to have multiple instances of Core serving the front-end. Front-end on the other-hand (based on Django) can easily be scaled and made to talk to a single Core as it stores everything in a Database that you can share across them. Note that for now, Core expects to know the address for front-end (for archiving), and doesn't yet support multiple options there. So, you'd have to have one instance for receiving archived emails from Core and then others can just serve it. -- Abhilash Raj maxking(a)asynchronous.in

7 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Newbie question 2: Rewriting issue for bounced emails

by William Oliver

On Sun, 2021-12-26 at 16:47 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 12/26/21 3:06 PM, William Oliver wrote: > > > > When running mailman3, do I need to set up a completely different > > virtual domain for it to run in? > > No. > > > > My "real" domain name is > > libertyfp.org, and I'm trying to make mailman work on that domain, > > e.g. > > "testlist(a)libertyfp.org." I'm starting to get the idea that I need > > to > > stick a completely different domain in there for the mailinglist. > > No. > > DNS or anywhere outside your server. > > Have you actually set an alias domain in Postorius for the > libertyfp.org > domain. It doesn't matter what name it is as long as it isn't > a real domain. A good choice is x.libertyfp.org. Have you set that > or > things like > > testlist(a)libertyfp.org testlist(a)x.libertyfp.org > testlist-bounces(a)libertyfp.org testlist-bounces(a)x.libertyfp.org > testlist-confirm(a)libertyfp.org testlist-confirm(a)x.libertyfp.org > ... [snip] Ah. I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that I had to tweak *postfix* to get this done. It's not that you weren't clear, it's that when I read the mailman3 instructions, I got the impression that *mailman* would set the alias domain automatically, so I was dead set on munging postfix. This makes more sense, and I can back out of some of the changes I made in postfix, which for the last couple of rounds was mostly flailing about randomly -- I've heard that's often not a good admin strategy. So.. if I need to do it myself, can you point me to what file I need to create/modify in the /opt/mailman/mm tree to set up the alias? Thanks! billo

4 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Initial success: Mailman 3.3 integrated with Zimbra 8.8

by Morris Jones

I have a very old existing mail server running Zimbra 6 with a mailman 2.1 instance alongside. I needed to rebuild my mail server for some compelling reasons (the old server used outdated TLS protocol, I could no longer compile clamav, nothing could really be updated). The final straw was a lack of support for my old commercial SSL certificates. I patched in a letsencrypt certificate to get through the past six months. I'm in the process of commissioning a new mail server using an 8GB Linode, Ubuntu 18, Zimbra 8.8, and Mailman 3.3. A couple of days ago I had my first successful list creation, with user confirmation working by email. I have django running with uwsgi, and am using Zimbra's installed nginx proxy to reverse proxy http traffic to Postorius and Hyperkitty. Nginx is doing the SSL layer. The mailman core mta hooks are all done using Zimbra's "local configuration" technique. In theory I should be able to do Zimbra upgrades with a minimum of hassle. I've written up a "case history" of how it came together. I have a .rst file in a gitlab project here: https://gitlab.com/MojoLA/mailman3.3-zimbra-8.8-integration I suppose this is a crazy project, but it's worthwhile to me. (Mark, thank's so much for integrating the virtual domain maps. It took me about three days to recognize that they were the solution to bounced mails to list-owner@...) Now I can spend some time migrating my email accounts (only four) from the old server to the new one, and move a dozen or so mailing lists to the new mailman3 instance. I'll have to get accustomed to a new way to manage the mail lists, and already really like what I've seen. Thank you. :) Best regards, Mojo -- Morris Jones, Monrovia, CA BridgeMojo <http://bridgemojo.com> Old Town Sidewalk Astronomers <http://otastro.org> Mojo's Blog <http://mojo.whiteoaks.com>

5 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] How to strip DKIM headers on a domain level or a list level

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Rob Jenson writes: > I need to strip DKIM headers on the inbound messages to my list or > to my domain. Why do you need to strip DKIM headers? The standard specifies that an invalid DKIM signature must be treated the same as if there were no signature at all. So an invalid DKIM signature may be treated as spammier than a message with a valid signature, but that should not be treated differently from an unsigned message (as would appear after removing those header fields). I know this feature is in demand from list admins, but I've never seen convincing evidence that it's actually effective for any of the usual suspects (Yahoo!, AOL, Gmail), only for small domains with pigheaded admins who are proud of their non-conforming configurations, and announce that they are discarding messages which have invalid DKIM signatures. > What I do not understand from the documentation for Mailman 3 Core > is whether it is possible for my hosting service to set > remove_dkim_headers just for our domain. It currently is not possible. It probably could be made possible on a per-domain or per-list basis, but it's not clear to me why it would be useful to do so. If there really are non-conforming receivers out there, it's probably a good idea to strip host-wide. > If that is not possible, then the question becomes "is there a way, > in the list configuration, to strip the DKIM headers? It is possible, but that requires changing the list's processing pipeline to add that capability. I believe this is not difficult (I haven't done similar changes with Mailman 3 yet) but it does require the assistance of the host, and possibly imposes a future maintenance burden on the host. > We are munging the text of the message in Mailman, so the DKIM > headers from the original poster are invalid. As I explained above, both DKIM and DMARC are specified so that "no signature" == "invalid signature" for the purposes of spam processing. Are you sure that Yahoo! (or any other provider used by your subscribers) is treating invalid signatures differently from absence of signatures? The person responsible for Yahoo! MTA configuration is a well-known mail security expert who participated actively in the specification of all these protocols (and she also gave me a kitten, so I may be biased). > As far as I can see, our service provider is using ARC in our > Mailman configuration, but not signing the outbound messages with > DKIM. That surprises me. ARC isn't really a substitute for the MTA's own DKIM signature, at least not yet. > Therefore the DKIM signature from the poster's mail service > provider is sent out with their DKIM header, which seems to be > problematic. It shouldn't be. > If I understand ARC correctly, it is validating the DKIM signature > from the poster, creating a new signature and metadata indicating > that what it received was properly signed. That is correct. As far as I know, Yahoo! does participate in the ARC protocol and used to have conforming implementations of DKIM and DMARC. That doesn't mean you get a free ride: they may still have your IP on a blacklist from former owners of the IP, for example. Or your posts may "look like" spam for some other reason, or your lists may need more time to build up a clean reputation. But I need evidence more convincing than "list posts are recognized as spam" to believe that removing DKIM headers will help. (For example, my employer's filters regularly recognize messages from department heads as spam, even with DKIM signatures intact. ;-)

5 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Disabled by bounce

by Mark Sapiro

On 2/17/23 13:39, denise.mcgeachy--- via Mailman-users wrote: > Hi all - new to this forum but am trying to work out a similar issue raised by a list member's IT department. I'm a bit out of my depth here and hoping you all can help. > > They have recommended: > > - When the mailing list relay an email from a member of the list to other members, the email from address should be the mailing list and not the user sending the original email. For example: list-name(a)mydomain.ca (on behalf of Sally Brown) > - The mailing list should not modify the original email and thus breaking the DKIM signature > > I have clicked the DMARC mitigation unconditionally option which seems to solve the second point but haven't managed to have it sent by the list name but not as suggested in the first point. I either get "my email via list(a)mylist.ca" or list(a)mylist.ca" > Is anyone aware of a setting to do this? Those two points are contradictory. You can't do both. Not modifying the message in ways that break DKIM requires no content filtering, no addition of list headers or footers and no munging of From: or Reply-To: headers. Normally the list will make some modification that will break DKIM signatures. If you set DMARC mitigation action to Replace From: with list address, and set DMARC Mitigate unconditionally, that should address the first point and individual messages from the list will be From the list and that's all you should need. For example, the message to which I'm replying is From: denise.mcgeachy--- via Mailman-users <mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> While this is not identical to the format you quote, the address is the list's address which is the important thing. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years

[MM3-users] Re: Importing archive from mm21

by Lars Bjørndal

On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 01:26:03PM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 11/27/23 13:01, Lars Bjørndal wrote: > > I imported an archive from a list created in September 2013 with the > > following command: > > > > mailman-web hyperkitty_import -l annonsering(a)hodr.no --since 2013-09-01 <mbox file> > > > If it's a new list with no current archive, I typically don't use --since. > If there might be messages in the archive, I normally use something like > `--since 1970-01-01` just to be sure I get everything. There was some new messages in the archive prior to the import. > > No errors reported. > > > And this should have imported all messages with Date: header dates >= > 2013-09-01 plus any without Date: headers. > > > I then did > > > > mailman-web update_index_one_list annonsering(a)hodr.no > > > > No, when I go to https://hodr.no/archives/list/annonsering@hodr.no/, I > > cannot choose mails earlier than January 2023. > > > > What's the problem, do you think? > > The messages are there. I went to > https://hodr.no/archives/list/annonsering@hodr.no/ and only saw messages > from 2023, but then I went to > https://hodr.no/archives/list/annonsering@hodr.no/latest?count=200&page=2 > and started seeing all the messages even at > https://hodr.no/archives/list/annonsering@hodr.no/. > > What do you see now? Now, all messages are visible. > I also note your pages seem to be missing the styling as the references to > the styles, etc at https://hodr.no/static/* all return 404. Thank you. I had `Alias /mailman3/static /opt/mailman3/web/static` instead of `Alias /static /opt/mailman3/web/static`. As I'm blind, I didn't notice that missed icons/styling. > Is the issue fixed for you now? I don't understand what caused the issue. Tyank you, the issue is fixed. Lars

2 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Treatment of hostname in /etc/hosts [was: Splitting hosts ...]

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Ruth Ivimey-Cook writes: > The localhost address is coming in via the hosts file, which is a > relatively standard practice IMO. OK, so I did a little research on this. You don't need to read this to continue discussion, but since other users have expressed interest in splitting hostname from listener IP address, I am posting what I've learned about aliasing hostname to localhost. This doesn't apply directly to multihomed hosts as also mentioned in this thread, and additions and corrections are, of course, welcome. It had been my understanding that conventional wisdom is that "127.0.0.1 localhost" is *all* that you should put in /etc/hosts in most cases, so I did a couple of web searches. As far as my search-fu got me, there is no standard beyond putting localhost itself in there, which is used by a lot of boot scripts. But as a matter of common practice, the Debian family supplies an /etc/hosts that defaults to aliasing the host's FQDN to 127.0.1.1 (not 127.0.0.1), apparently as a kludge to keep GNOME happy: http://www.leonardoborda.com/blog/127-0-1-1-ubuntu-debian/ systemd-resolvd does something different; in the case that there is no interface configured *and* no /etc/hosts entry, it resolves the "local, configured hostname" to 127.0.0.2 (again, not 127.0.0.1). But if there is an interface configured, it resolves to that interface's IP. Apparently this is intended to speed up systemd-based boot processes by allowing them to run in parallel. Fedora issue tracker reports it leads to a problem similar to the one being discussed, eg, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1116538#c25 Bottom line: neither the Debian family nor the Red Hat family aliases hostname to localhost; by default it's a separate "interface". And Red Hat does it conditionally on no real interface found. As far as I can tell, these workarounds are about placating software that breaks in one way or another if the host's own FQDN does not resolve at all when they start up, presumably because the resolver can't reach the network -- but they don't care if it's consistent with DNS as long as it connects to the local host, which leads to a fairly arbitrary practice of aliasing the hostname to localhost. All of which suggests to me that such software should be special-casing the host's various identifiers (hostname, canonical FQDN, /etc/hosts aliases, all of which it can easily discover) and translate them to "localhost", rather than asking the resolver to do it and creating an inconsistency with DNS. Of course, getting other software to Do The Right Thing is pretty hopeless, but the solution is simple: wait for the network to come up and use the configured interface's address by looking up the canonical hostname. This works for GNOME and Postfix (mentioned in the references above), and for Mailman. AFAICS, the exceptions are (1) running a high-availability "cloud" system that needs to scale very quickly on-demand (in which case you want to start things in parallel and need to deal with the real race conditions involved), and (2) a need to do work while disconnected. The former is over my pay grade but apparently Fedora has not managed to get it 100% reliable even with systemd. The latter case can be dealt with by putting your static IP address in /etc/hosts when you have one, which I presume > I could change it, but then perhaps other things would not work. > I would prefer to be able to specify what I need. Notwithstanding the discussion above about why it "shouldn't" break anything, I wouldn't be surprised if something breaks -- such configuration choices tend to ramify. I sympathize with you not wanting to change a configuration that works for you. Steve

5 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Error -- postorius Un-handled exception

by Mark

> On Sat, Jan 27, 2024 at 8:17 AM Mark <imark(a)posteo.net> wrote: >> 3. For the user "mailman" to access the databases I needed to change >> the >> owner to mailman (even though all privileges has been granted) ... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 2024-01-27 18:51, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > The issue you're dealing with in that case is this change in > PostgreSQL-15 > discussed in this blog: > https://www.cybertec-postgresql.com/en/error-permission-denied-schema-publi… > > I have never needed to do `psql -d mailman -U mailman -W`. > I used the steps documented above to enable mailman user to write to > the > database. > > postgres=# \c mailmanweb postgres > You are now connected to database "mailmanweb" as user "postgres". > mailmanweb=# GRANT ALL ON SCHEMA public TO mailman; > GRANT > mailmanweb=# \c mailman postgres > You are now connected to database "mailman" as user "postgres". > mailmanweb=# GRANT ALL ON SCHEMA public TO mailman; > GRANT > > TBH, I am not sure which method is the best although I think this > option is > :) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the heads up on that blog Odhiambo. Agreed. it is a better way of doing it. --- SNIP --- In PostgreSQL 14 and in prior versions, by default anybody can create a table. The new table will simply end up in the PUBLIC schema. The problem with this approach is that the public schema can quickly turn into a trash can containing all kinds of used and unused tables – which is neither desirable nor recommended. An even bigger problem is security: almost any privilege escalation attack on a PostgreSQL database requires the attacker to create malicious objects. ... The public schema is the perfect vector for such a privilege escalation attack. Therefore PostgreSQL has made a major leap forward and changed this behavior. In version 15, only the database owner can create objects in the public schema. ---

2 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Error while running mailman-web compilemessages

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Prasanth Nair writes: > Thank you for the quick response and for the possible causes. I'm using the > following versions. > Django: 3.0.14 > msgfmt: 0.19.8.1 The Django and msgfmt versions are not the issue. However, both of those versions are quite out of date. I'm not sure if it matters if you update msgfmt, but the documentation site for Django 3.0 now says "This document is for an insecure version of Django that is no longer supported. Please upgrade to a newer release!" I found some time to track down the source code, and the ar (Arabic) translation is buggy as far as I can tell. I do not understand how this can possibly have ever worked, the initial version from 2020-06-07 has all the same problems. I am not familiar with the configuration of translations in Django; perhaps you can omit it without messing with the source, and that's why it works for us. If you can't find a way to "unconfigure" it, and you don't need it, I suggest you either delete the ar/LC_MESSAGE/django.po file, or move it somewhere msgfmt can't find it. If you do need it, you should look for "%", and edit so the "%(variable_name)s" strings are exactly the same in the Arabic (msgstr) lines as they are in the original (msgid) lines. I don't speak Arabic, so I have no idea if those variable references are in the right places to make sense in Arabic. If you are not familiar with BIDI text, be prepared for strange behavior from your editor. That is, if the editor is Unicode-conformant, it's likely that the cursor will move "backwards" through the Arabic and jump over then move forward through the English. It's bedtime for me now, but I will probably file a bug witht eh django_extensions project in the morning. Steve

3 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mail configuration

by Bill Christensen

Though not a perfect solution, setting an SPF in your DNS will help. Enter something along the lines of: v=spf1 include: mailServerDomainName.com ip4:<old_IP_Address> ip4:<new_IP_address> ~all (obviously, change the generic entries to real values, and use IP6 addresses if appropriate. ) On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 6:34 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > On 03/27/2018 03:43 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > > > My feeling is that you want to ask on Postfix channels, since I don't > > see a good reason to involve Mailman itself in what is really a task > > for the MTA. Mailman was deliberately designed to not know anything > > about outgoing mail except a host and port to send to. > > > Which brings up the point I've been meaning to post for days but it > keeps slipping off the back burner and falling on the floor. > > I can think of a couple of ways to hack the code in Mailman 2.1 to > select a different outgoing MTA by list. It can also be done in Mailman > 3 by having separate MTA configs per list, but I can't give you a recipe > off hand. > > But, the way I would do this is what you are presumably doing anyway. > That is have separate Mailman installations on the old and new server. > Then you can move the lists incrementally and gradually. Then all you > need is a transport map in Postfix on the old server to route mail to > the new server for the already moved lists, and then finally update DNS > after all the lists are moved. > > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ >

7 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Python is updated

by Odhiambo Washington

On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 11:14 AM Mark London <mrl(a)psfc.mit.edu> wrote: > Because of my own personal horror stories of waking up to finding high > priority linux servers broken, due to nightly automated updates, I now > prevent automatic updates on my servers. I only do manual security > updates. In addition to implementing modern security techniques for our > network. That is just my personal belief system. It's worked for > the past 25 years. > > The only time we ever got hacked, was because of some stupid php scripts > that our developers had put online, or because people's passwords had > become leaked. And some of those situations were nightmares also. In > two case of which, happened while I was away on vacation, and I had to > fix everything remotely. But that was never due to updates. > > I probably shouldn't express my opinion. But I have a lot of empathy > for the guy who discovered his mailman broken due to upgraded Python. > Which triggered my nightmares. > > But it's great though to have a very responsive community here, to bring > people back from the dead. - Mark > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ LOL IMHO, automated upgrades on any server is a bad thing! You have just seen that with Python. Imagine you were running PHP code and you automatically upgraded from PHP7 to PHP8! Chances are high that all your PHP applications will be broken in the process. You ALWAYS need to review all the software for compatibility (with your code & configs) before you do an upgrade. Such information will be clearly spelt in the ChangeLog, which requires a human to read and decide. Or maybe in 2023, ChatGPT can help with that? :-) -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]

2 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Apple Mail encoding again

by tlhackque

On 22-Apr-22 02:12, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > tlhackque via Mailman-users writes: > > > An up-to-date Thunderbird user - the message with the > > "mail-with-defect.txt" attachment, as forwarded by [MME-users] (selected > > headers below for ID) displays as blank. Interestingly, the Thunderbird > > error console has no error message related to this. > > > > So there's really no point in passing it along, unless "pass these > > defects" turns into "repair these defects". > > That's a Thunderbird problem, though, and nonconforming to the Postel > Principle. As I subsequently wrote, I agree and logged a bug report for TB. Apparently the other people who reported experiencing the issue here never did. However, it's not clear whether it's the same "blank display" issue - I'm pretty sure mine was due to the broken signature; others seemed to indicate the CTE headers. So I hope those with the ability to sort that out will add to the bug report... The Postel Principle is a useful, sweeping generalization. It's not an absolute. It doesn't say "be so liberal in what you accept that you do something sensible with all possible input faults, including those that you never thought of and any input contrary to a specification". One could argue that TB was liberal enough not to crash. I don't expect any MUA to display non-conforming messages as the sender intended. It's unquestionably a bug that TB failed to display anything, even "I don't understand this malformed message". If it did that, further conformance to the Postel Principle would be a matter of degree. It could display the raw message body, try to intuit and format the most involved content, fall back to any text/plain part, offer to send a bug report to vendor of the MUA identified in the headers, or... However, the point I tried to make with this example is that passing-on defects isn't a good solution. At best, receivers whose MUA tolerates a defect (or interprets it in a useful way) benefit. But to others, MM looks like a flaky source - some people can read some messages some of the time. And it amplifies the impact of the defect by distributing it to a large(r) audience. (Similar to the DDOS DNS amplification attacks.) So if there's an issue identified that causes pain for the MM community, I think it best to either (a) bounce the message with an explanation or (b) if possible (and in a Postelish spirit) repair the defect. > > Note that MailMan is encapsulating a multipart/signed message in a > > multipart/mixed in order to append it's footer, and reports that it > > removed the signature part of the multipart/signed. This makes the > > signed message format invalid. So at least, MM3 needs to handle signed > > messages better: either include the signature or remove the signature > > headers (an unwrapping exercise to convert the message to > > unsigned)... > > For the former, we already try pretty hard to include the signature. > At least on this list "Pass types" is > > multipart > message/rfc822 > text > application/pgp-signature > application/x-pkcs7-signature > application/pkcs7-signature > > although I see Mark just added that last one or two. Of course, "x-" > tokens are deprecated except for private use, maybe we should be > unsympathetic to x-pkcs7-signature, too? :-) The last two were added in response to my analysis. There are a lot of x-mime types that were subsequently standardized. There's no good solution for migrating from an experiment to a standard. Your friend the Postel Principle gets in the way - since it's clear that the semantics are identical, you should generate the standard, but accept both the experimental and standard... :-) Converting to unsigned, while possible, is a bad idea in the vast majority of cases. More later. > > > > In either case, corrupting messages is a MM issue. > > I disagree, in part. Although you do address this, let me use the > example of this case where the signed body is multipart/alternative. > I think it's perfectly reasonable for a list to configure to remove > the text/html part, which will break the signature. Then there are > three possible ways to go: (1a) leave the signature in place, broken, > thus informing recipients it was supposed to be signed and leaving it > to them to follow up, (1b) to change the multipart/signed content-type > to multipart/mixed and replace the signature with a "removed" notice, > and (2) to remove the signature and multipart structure, leaving > recipients unaware that the message was intended to be signed. Each > of those is problematic, each in its own way. Supporting all of them > and the list configuration infrastructure to allow admins to choose > would be an unwarranted burden on us, IMO. The fourth, and probably correct, possible action is to bounce the message. Someone signed it for a reason. If its content violates the list policy, it can't be fixed and stay signed. So tell the sender why it can't be accepted, and give him the option to remove the banned part(s) or remove the signature. If someone signs a message, substituting the judgement of some random remote list manager (human or automaton) doesn't seem like the right thing to do... > > > multipart/signed should imply accepting the signature part (in this > > case, application/x-pkcs7-signature). If signatures aren't allowed by > > policy, then multipart/signed should be bounced. > > I find it hard to believe that anyone would want a "deny signed > bodies" policy So would I. But I sign messages by default, and run into this. And the argument goes "the signature doesn't add anything. It occupies space (itself and it can cause e.g. base64 encoding of plain text) and my users don't care and it's a techie's vanity exercise and it causes problems (like the ones discussed here), and..." > , but it's easily implemented. Put multipart/signed in > "Filter types". > A configuration explicitly banning signature > algorithms but not multipart/signed is a user error in that case. Yes. And (I won't mention the PP here, but...) it's clear that even experienced administrators (e.g. Mark) fall into this trap. In fact, I think accept "multipart" (meaning multipart/*) is a default or at least recommended configuration. So MM should either detect it, or behave reasonably. I'm suggesting that a reasonable behavior would be: If an incoming message is signed and the associated signature part is not explicitly banned, accept the signature part. If signed and the signature part is banned, or if signed and signed mail is banned: bounce the message. > I > guess I can imagine wanting to ban certain types (eg, known > exploitable algorithms), and if one has such a use case and wants the > message rejected rather than simply stripping the signature as > unusable, "patches welcome" -- I can't see that level of care as worth > our time, though. I'm not going as far as selective algorithm enforcement. That would only make sense if MM got smart enough to validate signatures of signed mail - e.g. to bounce mail with bad signatures. (Which might be a worthy goal, but out of scope of this exchange...) But I stand by "if the sender signed it, then accept it or bounce it." Messing with it only leads to where there be dragons. > > > (I don't think it's reasonable to expect MM admins to "know" to > > configure their lists to pass signature parts if accepting signed - > > after all, this list is run by experts :-) > > I agree with that. It's not clear that we should do something about > it, though. There are two possibilities: (1) the list admin doesn't > care about signatures, and simply wanted to allow multimedia mail, and > (2) the list admin wants to admit signatures on purpose, for some > purpose. > > In case (1), this is mostly a cosmetic problem, and possibly involves > minor annoyance. The signature validation will fail and maybe there's > a text notice about removed parts, that's cosmetic. A subscriber who > cares about the signature might have to contact the author for > validation, that's the annoyance. In case (2), we do not know what > the requirements are. We should refuse to guess and we can assume > that list admin knows [more about what] she's doing [than we possibly > can] and leave it up to her. I'm taking the position that the originator's intent should control. If (s)he doesn't sign a message, then MM/the admin is free to change the content per (hopefully published) list policy. If (s)he did sign a message, the MM must either deliver it with the signature intact, or bounce it for policy reasons. > > If you think that we can know a lot about a very common use case in > principle, I'd like to hear about it, but for now that's my stance, > > Steve >

3 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: "Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on port 25"

by Mark Sapiro

On 9/18/19 11:29 AM, Manos Pitsidianakis wrote: > Hello, > > I've been getting "Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on port 25" > from runner "out" in mailman.log over some mails stuck in shunt queue, > postfix logs show nothing when this happens, tcpdump on lo interface > port 25 shows nothing. The log shows up when I start mailman, and then > it seems not to show up again. That log message is only written once. It won't be written again unless the out runner is restarted or there is a successful delivery followed by another socket.error. > I can do 'telnet localhost 25' just fine, including as mailman user. I > can send and receive mail on my mail server. I tried making a test list > and sent/received messages fine. Is only one list affected, and is it all messages from this list or only some? > smtp debug logs show "Using agent: <mailman.mta.deliver.Deliver object > at 0x7fdd9793c940>" and "IndividualDelivery to: <email(a)address.tld>" on > repeat, where the email address is one of the addresses of the shunted > mails. Do some deliveries of the problem message succeed? I.e., in the normal case without failure, there will be one "IndividualDelivery to: <email(a)address.tld>" message for each recipient in the recipients list. In the shunted message case, the msgdata object in the shunted pickle contains the recipients. Are there "IndividualDelivery to: <email(a)address.tld>" entries for some but not all recipients. Is the last of these an invalid local address? (Postfix can return a 421 status and drop the connection if there are too many invalid local recipients, although I don't know if this would apply in the VERP case. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

6 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'mailman_web'

by Stephen J. Turnbull

gordon(a)dickens.com writes: > "systemctl stautus mailman" generates the following output: That's what I expected, consistent with your previous report. > > According to my logs, the upgrade from Debian 11 to 12 began at > > exactly 2023-10-31 13:50. > "journalctl -S "2023-10-31 13:50" -u mailman -x" > generates the following output: I didn't want any of that. I just wanted the log from the most recent attempt to start Mailman. > Note that the above journalctl command does not generate any output > after 2023-10-31 14:19:43 although I have been running the startup > script often. I'm a SYSV init person. Perhaps the journalctl command I suggested was insufficiently inclusive. But that seems very strange to me. > "ps -e -f | grep mailman" generates the following output: Hm. This has nothing to do with your problem as far as I know, but why is a uwsgi command in your venv/bin? Debian has a package for that, are you not using it? Did you do anything specific to put uwsgi there? Oh, wait ... there's a possibility that your best bet is to delete the old venv as inconsistent and create a new one. In that case be sure you know how to get uwsgi installed where your startup scripts expect it. > Basically, it does not appear that mailman nor the runners are > active and rebooting does not help. > "/opt/mailman/venv/bin/mailman start" > generates errors as follows: [...] > >pkg_resources.DistributionNotFound: The 'mailman==3.3.5' > >distribution was not found and is required by the application 3.3.5 is quite old now. Is that the version of Mailman you've installed and were expecting? It seems likely to me that somehow the Mailman package has been upgraded to a more recent version but the venv/bin/mailman command has not been upgraded. Is that command owned by the mailman user? Steve

2 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Weird response to postings after subscriptions and accounts

by Mark Sapiro

On 9/16/19 9:22 PM, Paul Arenson wrote: > In my test of the two forms of signup, I am getting these unexpected results. Is it my settings or is something weird within the program itself? > > 1) https://list.tokyoprogressive.org/postorius/lists/discuss.list.tokyoprogres… > > 2) Choose "You can also subscribe without creating an account. If you wish to do so, please use the form below" > > 3) Then I have to approve it. They get "Welcome to the "Discuss" mailing list! To post to this list, send your email to: discuss(a)list.tokyoprogressive.org You have to approve it or the user has to confirm her email address? Maybe you have to approve it because the lists Subscription Policy is Moderate. > 4) But I have to approve it.I assume this is because they do not yet have a real account. And they should be listed as a NON MEMBER? No. They will be a member, they just will not have a Django account that they can log in to. > 5) But even when they sign up here: https://list.tokyoprogressive.org/accounts/signup/?next=%2Fpostorius%2Flist… they get an email from my provider (NOT MY LIST????) as follows: > > "Hello from mailman3.emwd.com! You're receiving this e-mail because user iCloud has given yours as an e-mail address to connect their account. > To confirm this is correct, go to https://list.tokyoprogressive.org/accounts/confirm-email/MTE3:1iA44k:E7w7xh… Thank you from mailman3.emwd.com! mailman3.emwd.com" Because when you create a Django account, you have to confirm your email address. > 6) And this is where it gets weird. If they send from their email program and get the welcome (Welcome to the "Discuss" mailing list! > To post to this list, send your email to: discuss(a)list.tokyoprogressive.org You can unsubscribe or make adjustments to your options via email by > sending a message to....... I then get a notice: > > "Your mail to 'discuss(a)list.tokyoprogressive.org' with the subject test notice Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. The message is being held because: The message is not from a list member" What is Message Acceptance -> Default action to take when a member posts to the list ? You get the notice or the user gets the notice? > 7) While if they send FROM THE interface it goes through. > > 8) What I am confused about. > > Signing up for an account should make them a member, right? Subscribing should make them a non member, no? Signing up for an account is just signing up for a Django account. You can sign up for an account and log in and then subscribe to the list. Subscribing makes one a member whether or not you subscribe from a logged in account or subscribe without creating an account. > But here it seems that both make them a non member. If an address which is not a member posts to the list, that address becomes a non-member. This is the only way other than being explicitly added by an admin that an address becomes a non-member. > And worse, someone with an account sending from the Interface has their message get through while the same person sending from an email program has me get a notice that a non member is trying to post. If by sending from the interface, you mean posting via hyperkitty, the user must have an account and be logged in to do that. Your "same person" may have multiple entities within Mailman, possibly subtly different email addresses, one of which is a member and one of which isn't. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

6 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Confirmation emails aren't sent to users.

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Ibiam Chihurumnaya via Mailman-users writes: > Mark Sapiro wrote: > > > OK, this is Django. The default EMAIL_BACKEND from > > mailman_web/settings/base.py is > > django.core.mail.backends.smtp.EmailBackend and unless you've changed > > that or added overrides various other defaults are > > EMAIL_HOST = "localhost" > > EMAIL_PORT = 25 > > EMAIL_HOST_USER = "" > > EMAIL_HOST_PASSWORD = "" > > EMAIL_USE_TLS = False > > EMAIL_USE_SSL = False > > EMAIL_SSL_CERTFILE = None > > EMAIL_SSL_KEYFILE = None > > Are those appropriate? Do you have an outgoing MTA listening on > > localhost:25? What's in it's logs? > > I don't have any of those set, didn't realize I needed to have them > set, the docs didn't make it obvious too. Those defaults *are* set in the mailman_web settings files. You can override them in /etc/mailman3/settings.py, but often you don't need to. > I also didn't notice them in schema.cfg in mailman. This is for Django, whose configuration is in /etc/mailman3/settings.py, with defaults set in the mailmanweb package in your venv's site-package in the files in .../mailman_web/settings/. > smtp_port is currently set to 25, and I do have an outgoing MTA > listening on localhost:25. If Mailman can distribute posts that way, Django should be able to send mail with the default settings. > Nothing shows up in the MTA logs about this particular email. Not sure what to say about that. I'm not sure Postorius or Django log outgoing mail messages but I think they use the mailmanweb.log file by default if they log mail at all. (This is separate from the MTA logs which should record any connections from localhost and mail submitted.) -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan

3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: How to disable global templates for all lists

by Mark Sapiro

On 3/13/24 16:28, christopher.claus(a)tgcamberg1848.de wrote: > Hallo togeher, > > I´m using the docker version from maxking and mailman core-version 3.3.9. I was wondering why there were messages in the list with "non-configured" footers. I found the files >> > mailman-core:/opt/mailman# find / -name "*list:member:*" > /usr/lib/python3.11/site-packages/mailman/templates/de/list:member:generic:footer.txt > /usr/lib/python3.11/site-packages/mailman/templates/de/list:member:digest:masthead.txt > /usr/lib/python3.11/site-packages/mailman/templates/ca/list:member:generic:footer.txt > /usr/lib/python3.11/site-packages/mailman/templates/ca/list:member:digest:masthead.txt > /usr/lib/python3.11/site-packages/mailman/templates/nl/list:member:generic:footer.txt > > but I found no option to disable them. How can I disable these global list-configuration? First, those are only a few. The default English templates are templates/en/list:member:digest:masthead.txt templates/en/list:member:generic:footer.txt templates/en/list:member:digest:header.txt templates/en/list:member:regular:header.txt and there are translations of them in many more than the de, ca and nl languages. The default English list:member:digest:header.txt and list:member:regular:header.txt are empty so most languages do not translate them. You can't disable them other than removing them, but you don't want to do that as these are only used as fall back in cases where there is no list, domain or site specific template. If you have messages delivered that use one of the default templates, it's because you don't have a custom template that matches the context for that message. When a template is required, first the template table in the database is searched for a template matching the list, domain or site context. If no match is found, the file system is searched as described at https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/blob/master/src/mailman/utilities/i18n… -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

1 year, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Finding a user to delete them

by Allan Hansen

The Django Admin Interface is better, but it also does not give a full picture of a member, as it does not show the lists that member is a member of. MM2 had that feature, which was very useful. When I heard of MM3 supporting ‘users’ as opposed to ’subscribers’, I was expecting an interface that was ‘user’ centered, both at the user level and at the admin level. As a site admin I don’t have a way to get a comprehensive view of a user account (attached email addresses, subscribed lists, etc.). Yours, Allan Hansen hansen(a)rc.org > On Mar 13, 2020, at 8:50 , Quanah Gibson-Mount <quanah(a)symas.com> wrote: > > > > --On Friday, March 13, 2020 9:41 AM -0700 Abhilash Raj <maxking(a)asynchronous.in> wrote: > >> dump_json is a documentation helper method which doesn't do much except >> calling the URL and dumping the returned json in a pretty-printed fashion. >> >> https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/documentation.h >> tml > > The point is more that the documentation at this URL: > > <https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/model/docs/usermanager…> > > makes repeated use of the dump_list function, and while it shows you a variety of bits to import, it doesn't include the bits necessary to make use of dump_list, so if one is going off the documentation, all they get is errors. > > But really, the documentation needs to be updated further to point out the the Django ADMIN INTERFACE as the best way to do user management, and not the python shell. > > --Quanah > > > -- > > Quanah Gibson-Mount > Product Architect > Symas Corporation > Packaged, certified, and supported LDAP solutions powered by OpenLDAP: > <http://www.symas.com> > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/

5 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman, etc. upgrade woes and persistent bugs

by Jim Popovitch

On Sat, 2021-02-13 at 10:40 -0500, Brian Carpenter wrote: > On 2/13/21 10:37 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-users wrote: > > On Sat, 2021-02-13 at 08:01 -0500, Brian Carpenter wrote: > > > Features are not the only thing about a modern UI, UX design plays a > > > MAJOR role in the modern UI. Postorius should have at least matched MM2 > > > in features in regards to something as important as Member management > > > but instead it took a step back into the dark ages. > > I'm gonna be a dick and remind you that less than 1 year ago you were > > trying to convince me that MM3 was a gift from god and that it was time > > for me to jump from MM2 to MM3 because it was sooo easy and such a time > > saver.. or something like that. The point being, you yourself just > > still aren't happy with MM3. Welcome to the club. > > I am very happy with MM3 just not with Postorius. MM3 allowed me to come > up with my own admin interface. Mailman 2 would never allowed me to do > that. So please leave your Mailman 2 bondage and come over to Mailman 3. > We have cookies! But how do you display a "Membership List page" for admins in MM3 (choice of wording is specific to other emails you've posted today) without third-party application(s), and isn't that too a shortcoming in MM3 due to that functionality being present in MM2? Look, without a doubt the REST API of MM3 Core is cool, but let's be honest, all the 3rd party wrapping and baggage is, well, not so cool. But, again being honest, you can't have a MM3 system without all of those things. With MM2 we have all those things, and we are happy with them. :) -Jim P.

5 years

[MM3-users] How to process emails with Mailman3?

by Kyle Lahnakoski

Good day! I am setting up an email list for my local community (just myself right now). Being a nerd, I am using Amazon SES to send and receive emails. I have mailman installed on ec2 (using "pip install mailman") and it is working well enough to send an email to the list with /opt/mailman/venv/bin/mailman inject -f <somefile>all(a)mymaillist.org SES is putting incoming mail into an S3 bucket, one file per email. Using a small python program, I use the above command to send them to the list. When I add a user (like myself) I get a welcome email from all-request(a)mymaillist.org. When I respond, the mail arrives in the S3 bucket, but I do not know how to give it to mailman3. The "inject" command will not work because there is no "all-request" mailing list. How do I feed these administrative mails to mailman3? Thank you. ----- I have tried netcat the email to the ?LMTP? port, but it fails: (venv) [ec2-user@ip-10-0-3-253 mailman]$ nc localhost 8024 < /tmp/pbTw1oqmV1rZtHXV707Jcov264hr 220 ip-10-0-3-253.ec2.internal GNU Mailman LMTP runner 2.0 500 Error: command "RECEIVED-SPF:" not recognized 500 Error: command "AUTHENTICATION-RESULTS:" not recognized 500 Error: command "" not recognized 500 Error: command "" not recognized 502 5.5.1 Too many unrecognized commands, goodbye. here is what the first few lines of an email file look like. (Some values have been changed) Received-SPF: pass (spfCheck: domain of lahnakoski.com designates 8.8.8.8 as permitted sender) client-ip=8.8.8.8;envelope-from=kyle(a)lahnakoski.com; helo=cichlid.ash.relay.mailchannels.net; Authentication-Results: amazonses.com; spf=pass (spfCheck: domain of lahnakoski.com designates 8.8.8.8 as permitted sender) client-ip=8.8.8.8;envelope-from=kyle(a)lahnakoski.com; helo=cichlid.ash.relay.mailchannels.net; dkim=failheader.i=(a)lahnakoski.com; dmarc=none header.from=lahnakoski.com; Return-Path:<kyle(a)lahnakoski.com> Received: from cichlid.ash.relay.mailchannels.net (cichlid.ash.relay.mailchannels.net [8.8.8.8]) by fips.wmjb.mail-manager-smtp.amazonaws.com with ESMTPS id p78l98r6nfp05h5lbb24phnsrovpcomu57smml81 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) for<all-request(a)mymaillist.org>; Sun, 09 Mar 2025 15:13:30 +0000 (UTC) ...

11 months, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Installing mailman 3

by Rafael Mora

Hello Abhilash, I have this in my settings.py file: EMAIL_BACKEND = 'django.core.mail.backends.smtp.EmailBackend' EMAIL_HOST = 'localhost' EMAIL_PORT = 25 #EMAIL_HOST_USER = 'mailing(a)labbrands.com' #EMAIL_HOST_PASSWORD = '******' What should I use in user and password?? Does Django use postfix to send the email??? Thanks El mar., 1 ago. 2017 a las 16:20, Abhilash Raj (<raj.abhilash1(a)gmail.com>) escribió: > Hi, > > > > On Tue, Aug 1, 2017, at 02:11 PM, Rafael Mora wrote: > > It's ok now, but still I can't make it send the confirmation email > > > > This is from mailman.log: > > > > > > [mailman@localhost logs]$ tail -f mailman.log > > Aug 01 15:59:18 2017 (2327) lmtp runner started. > > Aug 01 15:59:18 2017 (2333) virgin runner started. > > Aug 01 15:59:18 2017 (2332) retry runner started. > > Aug 01 15:59:18 2017 (2330) pipeline runner started. > > Aug 01 15:59:18 2017 (2325) command runner started. > > Aug 01 15:59:19 2017 (2328) nntp runner started. > > Aug 01 15:59:19 2017 (2326) in runner started. > > Aug 01 16:01:38 2017 (2331) 127.0.0.1 - - "GET > > /3.0/lists?count=0&page=1&advertised=true HTTP/1.1" 200 90 > > Aug 01 16:01:38 2017 (2331) 127.0.0.1 - - "GET > > /3.0/lists?count=10&page=1&advertised=true HTTP/1.1" 200 90 > > Aug 01 16:01:38 2017 (2331) 127.0.0.1 - - "GET /3.0/domains HTTP/1.1" 200 > > 90 > > > > > > > > > > What should I do? > > If you are talking about Account confirmation emails, they usually are > sent out from Django and not Mailman Core itself. > > To configure Django you need to edit the `settings.py` file, wherever > that is one your installation. If you are following the guide mentioned > at http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/prodsetup.html, it should be at > `mailman-suite/mailman-suite_project/settings.py`. > > To configure your Django to send emails, have a look at > > http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-web.html#setting-up-email-required > . > > That documentation page has pretty much everything you need in order to > have a running Web Frontend, please go through it and make sure you have > everything configured. > > Finally, the actual emails from Mailing lists are supposed to be handled > by Core. You need to configure Postorius & Mailman both to communicate. > The settings are mentioned > http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-core.html#configuring-mta > here. > > > Hope that helps! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > El mar., 1 ago. 2017 a las 15:36, Mark Sapiro (<mark(a)msapiro.net>) > > escribió: > > > > > On 8/1/17 1:14 PM, Rafael Mora wrote: > > > > > > > > Why does it say Address already in use? > > > > > > > > > Because you are starting lm tp runner and it's already running. > > > > > > Do 'mailman stop'. Then ensure no Mailman processes are running. kill > > > any if necessary. Then do 'mailman start'. > > > > > > -- > > > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > > > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mailman-users mailing list > > > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > > > > -- > > > > Atentamente / Best Regards > > > > Ing. Rafael Mora > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-users mailing list > > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > > -- > thanks, > Abhilash Raj > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- Atentamente / Best Regards Ing. Rafael Mora

8 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Sendgrid experiences (now Office 365)

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Tom Smyth writes: > Are there other hosts? Many! Costs and services vary enormously, though. I choose to run my own server and MTA because dogfooding, but there are a lot of services that will manage Mailman instances for you, and you just provide the domain and list owners. > How is this not a bigger issue for Mailman users? Not sure what "this" refers to, SMTP relays? They're a huge issue for instances that don't have other reasons to run an MTA. But if you're hosting email accounts or running MX for an organization you have a lot of other problems, and dealing with the Mailman-specific aspects basically amounts to using the DMARC mitigations, good abusive mail filtering, and implementing the ARC protocol. > Maybe most are big institutions that have their own SMTP relays and > dedicated staff to keep deliverability/reputation high? As far as I can tell, people with just a couple of discussion or non-commercial announce lists, a few dozen members at most, and low traffic, do very well with cheap services that run the MTA and the Mailman instance, and they just handle the list owner stuff. Instances that do more than that typically are serving an organization that provides hosting and SMTP relay service. > Or maybe a lot of people are using DMARC mitigation so that the > 'from' address is always the list address? For most discussion lists, there really is no alternative to "Munge From", at least for p=reject posters. "Stealth DMARC" (where large providers like Gmail require From alignment when they receive messages from themselves) is annoying, but we have an option to deal with that. Under some circumstances it is possible to run lists that never alter the message, but those are pretty restricted because many jurisdictions require "easy unsubscribe". -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan

5 months

[MM3-users]Re: mailman 2 vs. mailman 3: what happened to multipart/digest?

by John Hein

Here's an '02 reference in git to the some heritage for multipart/digest ========== commit 63d2568fe58333f8ca0b7582f74b43e775c581cd Author: bwarsaw <> Date: Thu Jul 11 22:14:25 2002 +0000 send_i18n_digests(): Let's generate MIME digests the correct way, by wrapping each message inside the multipart/digest in a MIMEMessage instance. We also no longer need to initialize the mimedigest instance's payload to the empty list. Also, when sending the digests, be sure to include isdigest=1 in the metadata, otherwise SMTPDirect will try to tack on another footer. ========== John wrote at 16:46 -0600 on May 12, 2016: > Mark Sapiro wrote at 12:18 -0700 on May 12, 2016: > > On 5/12/16 9:16 AM, John wrote: > > > Digest delivery in mailman 2 encapsulated the individual message/rfc822 messages in a multipart/digest container. This allowed email clients to show the messages in the particular digest in a threaded view. > > > > > > This format vs. plain text digests was a user option in Mailman 2. > > > > > > > It seems like the various digest options that I have tried [1] in mailman 3.1.0 (as implemented for the fedora-users mailing list) no longer encapsulate messages in multipart/digest. > > > > > > The core still supports the same plain text and MIME format digests and > > the same individual subscriber and per-list default formats as did > > Mailman 2. The issue is none of these things are exposed in Postorius. > > > > If you subscribe to digests on this list, you will receive the > > 'encapsulated' MIME format because the lists mime_is_default_digest > > setting is True, but currently that has to be set through the > > bin/mailman shell tool. > > > > > > > Is this intentional? Is it a bug - feature that was lost in translation from 2 to 3? Is there a delivery option I'm missing that will turn that back on? > > Thanks for the info - and Barry's reply as well. I understand that > MIME digests are supported in Mailman 3 - that's what I'm using (and > thanks, Barry, for the info that Summary Digests is the same right > now). My quibble is that the multipart/digest encapsulation level is > gone. > > Barry Warsaw wrote at 15:16 -0400 on May 12, 2016: > > The MIME format of MIME digests should roughly be: > > > > multipart/mixed > > text/plain (the digest heading) > > text/plain (the TOC) > > message/rfc822 > > message-1 > > message/rfc822 > > message-2 > > ... > > text/plain (footer) > > > But mm 2 had: > > multipart/mixed > text/plain (the digest heading) > text/plain (the TOC) > multipart/digest <--- this is the part that's gone in mm3 > message/rfc822 > message-1 > message/rfc822 > message-2 > ... > text/plain (footer) > > So was that removal intentional, a bug or ?? > > Maybe you're saying there is definitely an unexposed (in Postorius) > knob for that in mm3. > > > > > It is the intent that Postorius will eventually expose all these > > settings. We're not there yet. At present you could possibly do this by > > interacting with mailmanclient, although I'm not certain the settings > > are exposed there. You can do it via bin/mailman shell if you have > > access and know what you're doing (see > > <http://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/release-3.0/src/mailman/runners/docs/diges…>) > > > > If you file an issue at > > <https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/issues/new>, it might help > > expedite this. > > Okay. > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/

9 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: MM3 occasionally chokes (?)

by Abhilash Raj

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 10:13 AM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 9:46 AM, Dmitry Makovey wrote: > > Thanks for fast response Abhilash! > > > > See inline for responses: > > > > On 3/18/19 9:24 AM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 9:14 AM, Dmitry Makovey wrote: > > >> In the last couple of month we've observed some odd behavior from MM3 > > >> (namely the core) where it seems like email that is about to be sent to > > >> a large-ish mailing list (10K users) has been processed yet never gets > > >> sent out until we restart the core. > > > > > > This is indeed weird, I don't think 10k is too much, but it also depends > > > on your MTA. How fast do they allow sending emails and if there is any > > > rate limiting. > > > > I'm using Mailu.io for MTA. We're controlling it so there's not much > > throttling as I've whitelisted mailman to send anything over LMTP. > > Mailman sends out email using SMTP and receives it from MTA using LMTP. > > > > > > I wouldn't necessarily consider this a performance problem in Core, > > > since it is still just processing only one email. All it needs to do is > > > send them all out, which is where the problem should be. > > > > inferred assumption is that mailman-core loses LMTP connection with > > Mailu stack. but then upon restart of service it regains it? > > Mailman acts as am SMTP client sending out emails via MTA. AFAIK, > Mailman 3 recycles SMTP connections after certain number of emails are > sent out. > > You can configure how many emails are sent-out per-connection and > when should each connection be recycled. You can also disable the > recycling altogether and always keep a connection open to the MTA. > See [1] here for detailed docs. > > [1]: > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/mta/docs/connection.ht… > > Again, copying from the docs, these are some extra MTA related settings > that you may want to change: > > --- > # Ceiling on the number of recipients that can be specified in a single SMTP > # transaction. Set to 0 to submit the entire recipient list in one > # transaction. > max_recipients: 500 > > # Ceiling on the number of SMTP sessions to perform on a single socket > # connection. Some MTAs have limits. Set this to 0 to do as many as we like > # (i.e. your MTA has no limits). Set this to some number great than 0 and > # Mailman will close the SMTP connection and re-open it after this number of > # consecutive sessions. > max_sessions_per_connection: 0 > > # Maximum number of simultaneous subthreads that will be used for SMTP > # delivery. After the recipients list is chunked according to max_recipients, > # each chunk is handed off to the SMTP server by a separate such thread. If > # your Python interpreter was not built for threads, this feature is disabled. > # You can explicitly disable it in all cases by setting max_delivery_threads > # to 0. > max_delivery_threads: 0 > --- > > max_sessions_per_connection is by default set to 0, so that shouldn't be > causing any problems. > > For a list of 10k members with `max_delivery_threads` set to to > default(500), I meant, max_recipients set to default (500). > Mailman could be sequentially sending out emails in 20 (10k/500) > connections, which > could be causing the delay that you see. > > You could increase the threads or if your MTA can handle it, set the > max_delivery_threads > to 20 and see if that helps? > > > > > > I'd imagine debug logging on outgoing runner should give some more > > > pointers on what is going on. > > > > > > You can configure the smtp runner to log extra information (copied from > > > docs)[1] > > > > > > [1]: > > > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/config/docs/config.html > > > > awesome - I'll give it a go. thanks for the pointer. > > > > > I'd also recommend looking into MTA logs for anything un-usual. > > > > we briefly did , but nothing stood out. > > > > >> troubleshooting/digging before I just restart the core (which by the way > > >> takes about 45min to fully start... which is another puzzle to solve at > > > > > > How do you measure that it takes 45 mins to start? > > > > normally it's "docker ps" command output along with "docker top" so once > > I see all the sub-processes kicked off I'm assuming core is started and > > from that point it's anywhere between 35 and 45min before I can get any > > *response* from core (i.e. mailman-web complains, REST commands fail, etc.) > > Maybe we should discuss this in another thread? REST Runner (and other runners) > shouldn't be taking this long to boot up. > > > > > > What database backend are you using? > > > > Postgres. The whole setup is docker-setup (0.1.7 version of containers > > at this point). > > > > > > -- > > Sr System and DevOps Engineer SoM IRT > > > > > > Attachments: > > * signature.asc > > -- > thanks, > Abhilash Raj (maxking) -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

6 years, 11 months

[Test] Re: What now -reply from web

by Simon Hanna

On 03/21/2016 03:36 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 03/20/2016 07:22 PM, mailman(a)mailman3.org wrote: >> The last post with SSL = True and latest core still hits the same >> underlying exception both in trying to get the archive URL and in >> trying to archive the message. The core now handles these exceptions >> and continues so the message goes to the list, but isn't archived and >> has no archive headers. >> >> This is a post from hyperkitty which will probably be handled the >> same, so we have to go back to SSL = False until we can fix the >> certificate issue. > > > Yes. > > Bottom line. With USE_SSL = True, core connects to hyperkitty via SSL to > 127.0.0.1 and the certificates I installed don't include 127.0.0.1 in > their domains, so urllib3 or requests (depending on where we're coming > from) throws SSLError: hostname '127.0.0.1' doesn't match either of > 'lists.mailman3.org', 'mirror.list.org', 'mirror.mailman3.org'. > > The core now handles the exceptions and the message is ultimately > delivered but not archived. regardless of where it originated. > > We're back to USE_SSL = False now so this post should be archived, > albeit the archive URLs will have 127.0.0.1 ast the host and not > lists.mailman3.org. IMHO you shouldn't use USE_SSL at all. It just redirects to ssl pages on certain urls in hyperkitty. What you should be doing is having your webserver (nginx, apache, ...) redirect all trafic from http to https. I'm doing this and have the following settings: # django settings USE_SSL = False # Put external IP in this tuple MAILMAN_ARCHIVER_FROM = ('x.x.x.x', '127.0.0.1', '::1') # hyperkitty archiver plugin # this is the url to the base page of hyperkitty # in your case this would be # base_url: https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/ base_url: https://example.com/hyperkitty/ It's working like a charm with no errors at all

9 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character

by Mark Sapiro

On 12/12/19 12:42 AM, Marvin Gülker wrote: > > But I now have a different problem. I've removed all offending messages > (it were more than just one that caused the UnicodeEncodeError), but I > still can't access the page for the held messages queue. It gives an > error 500, now with a different exception in the log. I've included it > below. It looks to me that the messages haven't properly been deleted. They have, but I apologize - more is required. > What I did was this: for each offending message hash > > 1. I ran the DELETE query > 2. I deleted the file from the file system > 3. I ran the delete_message() function > > I originally wanted to run only the delete_message() function, but a > quick check on the DB and the file system after running it for one hash > told me that it neither deletes the message from the DB nor from the > file system. The argument for delete_message() is not the hash, it is the <message-id> including the angle brackets. So I did everything at once. I do have a backup of both the > DB and the filesystem from before I started this, in case this broke > something. > > Is there something left that I have to do now? Yes, my bad for not realizing this. There are still references to these messages in the _request table. The columns in that table are id | key | request_type | data_hash | mailing_list_id key is the <message-id> of the request message request_type is 1 for a held message mailing_list_id is a numeric index into the mailinglist table The issue is there are still held message requests there for the messages you removed. You need to delete those entries from the _request table. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

6 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: The paradox of VERP probe messages

by Mark Sapiro

On 1/28/25 13:04, Jeremy Stanley wrote: > tl;dr: Is there a way to have VERP probe messages not include copies > of the bounce message that triggered them? Currently you'd need to patch code. This would do it. ``` --- a/src/mailman/model/bounce.py +++ b/src/mailman/model/bounce.py @@ -231,7 +231,7 @@ class BounceProcessor: # Try to get the dsn from the message store. It should be there. msg = getUtility(IMessageStore).get_message_by_id(event.message_id) if as_boolean(config.mta.verp_probes): - send_probe(member, msg=msg, message_id=event.message_id) + send_probe(member, message_id=event.message_id) action = 'sending probe' else: # Bounce score is reset by sending a probe but needs to be ``` You could submit an issue at https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/new to make this configurable. ... > This behavior raises a more significant concern as well. The MTA on > the Mailman server in this case (Exim if it matters) wants to > perform batch deliveries when there are multiple subscribers who all > share the same remote MTAs. If multiples of those reject a list > post, then the NDR back to Mailman aggregates those multiple > rejections into a single message. If that incident triggers a VERP > probe, the bulk NDR enumerating the addresses of all the subscribers > who were rejected gets forwarded along as part of the VERP probe, > disclosing a potentially sensitive litany of random subscriber > addresses to other subscribers within that batch. I don't know > whether this is a misconfiguration, or an unintended consequence of > the intersection of Mailman and MTA features. I'm sure you can configure Exim to not do that. For Postfix it's ``` smtp_destination_recipient_limit = 1 ``` Also if you configure Mailman to VERP all deliveries ``` [mta] verp_confirmations: yes verp_personalized_deliveries: yes verp_delivery_interval: 1 ``` each recipient will be sent separately with a different envelope sender so the MTA can't combine them. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

1 year, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Help with some 'withlist' configuration changes

by Mark Sapiro

On 6/23/21 6:30 AM, David Partain via Mailman-users wrote: > Hi, > > Firstly, a repeat that I have a relatively broken (and soon to be fixed, I hope) installation of mailman3 based on Ubuntu 18.04 distrib packages (3.1.1-9) that stumbles along by me dealing with a bunch of things by hand that I hope'll go away once I'm up to the current version. > > In this set-up, I get a fair number of items shunted. Since I have this wonky version where stuff isn't always exposed in the web interface, I have to fix these things by hand. An example is that something gets shunted because of too many recipients, where I do: > > sudo -u list mailman withlist somemailmanlist > m.max_num_recipients = 0 > commit() > sudo -u list mailman unshunt > > I've managed to find a number of these, such as m.max_message_size, m.require_explicit_destination, and m.administrivia. There is some other issue here as these things should only cause a message to be held, not shunted. Some exception is being thrown in the process of holding the messgage, and thaty is the real issue. What are the tracebacks in Mailman's mailman.log for these shunts? > My questions are undoubtedly foolish, but here goes: > > 1. Is there any way to print the entire 'm' structure? If so, I'd perhaps be able to figure out the answers to my other questions. dir(m) or maybe you want >>> for x in dir(m): ... if not x.startswith('_'): ... print(f'{x}: {m.__getattribute__(x)}') ... > 2. Is there a way for me to correct the following shunt-ing issues with 'withlist'? I've been unable to figure out how... > > a. 'moderation_reasons': [ 'Message has no subject'] / 'rule_hits': ['no-subject'] > > b. Some things get caught as 'rule_hits': ['nonmember-moderation']. However, if I look in the (web-based) config, it shows that non-members should be accepted but the messages are shunted nonetheless. I don't know what to look for in 'm' or how I might clear these messages. As I note above, these things are reasons to hold the message. The shunting occurs because something is going wrong in the holding process. Find the errors and tracebacks in Mailman's mailman.log to see what the real issue might be. > 3. I have no idea what these are telling me to do about digest messages. Suggestions? This is the entire info I get from 'mailman qfile': > > ------------------------------------------------------snip snip---------------------------------------------- > [----- start pickle -----] > <----- start object 1 -----> > > <----- start object 2 -----> > { '_parsemsg': False, > 'digest_number': 457, > 'digest_path': '/var/lib/mailman3/lists/somelist/digest.31.457.mmdf', > 'lang': 'en', > 'listid': 'somelistid', > 'version': 3, > 'volume': 31, > 'whichq': 'digest'} > [----- end pickle -----] > ------------------------------------------------------snip snip---------------------------------------------- That is telling you there was in issue in sending the digest, the mailbox for which is /var/lib/mailman3/lists/somelist/digest.31.457.mmdf. Unshunting that will retry sending that digest. > 4. I have some that have 'rule_hits': [] (it's empty) but are shunted nonetheless. I can't see anything weird other than one of the messages has a utf-8 subject. Any ideas? > > 5. Some messages that were sent to -request addresses (e.g., subscribe messages, confirm, approve messages) are being shunted. What should I do with these? You need to find the errors in the log and figure out what the underlying issue is. I'm guessing it's a permissions issue, possibly because of having at one time rum `mailman start` as root causing files to be created and owned by root and not be readable/writable by the Mailman user. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Why is a mailing list not sending the moderator subscribe or post notifications?

by Odhiambo Washington

On Wed, Jun 14, 2023 at 9:37 AM Mark London <mrl(a)psfc.mit.edu> wrote: > Hi - I migrated from mailman 2 to mailman 3. All but one list is > working correctly. > > That list is not sending the moderator any emails. It appears to > configured exactly like the other lists. > > I.e. subscription requests and moderated users posts don't generate any > emails to the moderator (me). > > I tried changing moderator email addresses, and everything else I could > think of, but nothing worked. > > What can I do to debug this problem? > Before going into hallucination, I would send an email to that list from a non-member and look at my MTAs as well as mailman log to see what happens. > This list is much larger than any of my other lists. And has a huge > archive. I doubt that is a factor, but I’ll mention it anyway. > Hyperkitty deals with the archiving aspect. Mailman core handles the mailing aspects. > Also, how do I run the command to remind me of awaiting moderation > requests, so that I can run it hourly? In case this can’t be fixed quickly. > mailman notify -l listname@domain -v [From the virtualenv, you can run mailman --help. All supplied arguments can also be running with --help to disclose further available options] > As an aside, I had some mailman 2 lists that had no moderators. I could > swear that for them, that the owners would get moderated requests. Am I > hallucinating? I can't check the old server any longer. Thanks. > > – Mark > The Big "Mark" will respond to that :) -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]

2 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Permission Denied "/opt/mailman/mm/var/archives/..."

by Stephen J Turnbull

This is a little old, but I don't see any reply or "problem solved." Peter Knowles writes: > I am writing my own archive reader script in PHP which parses the > "maildir" content produced by the "prototype" archiver. > > When I try to access the contents from > "opt/mailman/mm/var/archives/prototype/LISTNAME/new" folder I get a > permission denied error. FYI, this is a OS issue, not a Mailman issue. The contents of that directory are probably owned by list:list (that's owner:group) on Debian-derived systems or mailman:mailman is also commonly seen. To find out the relevant users and groups, do 'ls -lR | less' on the archive from the top. I recommend a recursive ls because I've seen situations where the files are in fact readable, but the directory path is not searchable. In that case adding the +x bit to every directory on the path to 'new' will do the trick.[1] The problem is that the users invoking your script are not that user or group. If the script will be invoked from the web server, you may want to add the web browser user (often www-data) to the mailman group. If this will be invoked by a variety of users, you might prefer to make the script set gid list (or mailman or whatever. The two approaches have slightly different security implications. > *** I'm using the "file_get_contents" PHP command to access the > file. *** This isn't relevant. Any access to the file would run into the same problem. Footnotes: [1] For you technical geeks, it was a tightass umask of 0x7 for user home creation by root, while the mailman user was a more permissive 022. YMMV, I think that's paranoid. -- University of Tsukuba　　　　　　　　　　　　 Faculty of Policy and Planning Sciences Tennodai 1-1-1, Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN tel/fax: +81-29-853-5091 turnbull(a)sk.tsukuba.ac.jp 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　https://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/

2 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman, etc. upgrade woes and persistent bugs

by Andreas Barth

* Stephen J. Turnbull (turnbull.stephen.fw(a)u.tsukuba.ac.jp) [210217 09:54]: > Ruth Ivimey-Cook writes: > > > What I mean by per-user permissions is that some transitions, for > > example bounce-disabled to enabled, should be only possible by someone > > with appropriate permission to do so > > Right. So what you mean is "ok, we have group permissions, and maybe > someday there will be a case for ACLs down to arbitrary subsets of the > user population," but you don't have a concrete use case for arbitrary > ACLs at the moment. > > BTW, I'm fine with that. Normally I'd take mere intuition of somebody > like Brian (who interacts with large numbers of admins, and probably > subscribers too) as a strong argument for at least experimental > implementation, but I see anything more complex than the current > system as likely to be a huge mess and developer time sink > indefinitely, unless we keep it to the minimum necessary feature set. I definitly have a usecase for that, but: currently other priorities :) (I had to do an ad-hoc takeover of lots of infrastructure in my spare time within an volunteer organisation including mailing lists, so getting wishlist itmes done is not my top priority at the moment.) Just from the top of my head, for example I want to differentiate between private, member and public lists. So if a member logs in, they see more lists than a non-member. This is currently not possible, not too big a deal (all member lists are currently configured as private) but of course would be nice. Also archiv access should be aligned with these permissions. So, if/when I start working on it, I would try to incorporate upstream whatever makes sense, and that includes discussing the concepts early here. Of course the appropriate split between private changes and public changes is also something which might need some discussions. Andi

5 years

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman 3 deployment: ok to use same database instance for core, web, and hyperkitty tables?

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Andrew Hodgson writes: > Are there any performance benchmarks for running MySQL vs > PostGreSQL? I think the Mailman devs like PostgreSQL because it tries harder to be a theoretically-correct RDBMS and because there was a mild stink of closed source around MySQL at one point. I recently saw a claim that PostgreSQL is now more performant than MySQL on some standard SQL benchmarks, but I don't have a cite so take that as a weak statement. (May have been a Xeet from the PostgreSQL devs. ;-) I don't think there's a big difference either way. AFAIK there are only a few subqueries and joins in the normal Mailman workload and they're all reasonably optimized by both RDBMSes. I've not heard anybody complain of the DB performance as such. > Its worth noting this is more difficult to do now on Debian/Ubuntu > installs as Python2 has been removed. This was something I ran into > myself when trying to co-exist both installs on the same box. Mark has Python 3 versions of the archive cleaning tools in his contrib directory. We didn't need a Python 2 installation, we just rsync'ed the mboxes across. I do recommend using a tool to break large archives into smaller mboxes (our case was monthly anyway, but there were a few 10GB+ months in there that took many hours), and keep good logs. We had a "pulled the wrong plug" incident and recovering the archives from that was painful even though we had a pretty good idea of what was done and what wasn't. Ended up deleting a couple of posts from the HyperKitty archive and deleting half the posts in the list/month mbox in question and everything worked, but it was scary and being sure of everything we had and didn't have was tedious. Steve

2 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: trying to clean up the "held messages" mess

by Bjoern Franke

Hi, > > What exceptions? Note that there is a lot of cleanup in the as yet > unreleased core 3.3.5. You might consider installing that. To do so, in > your virtualenv as the Mailman user do the exception was: 2021-05-27 21:56:25 [FALCON] [ERROR] GET /3.1/lists/nordwest(a)lists.ffnw.de/held?count=10&page=1 => Traceback (most recent call last): File "falcon/app.py", line 361, in falcon.app.App.__call__ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/mailman/rest/post_moderation.py", line 174, in on_get resource = self._make_collection(request) File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/mailman/rest/helpers.py", line 182, in _make_collection entries = [as_dict(resource) for resource in collection] File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/mailman/rest/helpers.py", line 182, in <listcomp> entries = [as_dict(resource) for resource in collection] File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/mailman/rest/post_moderation.py", line 165, in _resource_as_dict assert resource is not None, resource AssertionError: None > ``` > pip install --upgrade git+https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman > ``` Thanks, I've upgraded to 3.3.5b1. > > The exceptions you see are because entries are missing from the pended, > pendedkeyvalue and/or message tables. > The exceptions are gone after the upgrade and May 28 18:48:57 2021 (18041) task runner started. May 28 18:48:57 2021 (18041) Task runner evicted 70 expired pendings May 28 18:49:11 2021 (18041) Task runner deleted 77 orphaned workflows May 28 18:49:11 2021 (18041) Task runner deleted 76 orphaned requests May 28 18:49:25 2021 (18041) Task runner deleted 71 orphaned messages May 28 18:49:25 2021 (18041) Task runner evicted expired cache entries But since the upgrade from 3.2.1 to 3.3.x the list owners are spammed with ---- some.listmember(a)domain.tld's subscription has been disabled on nordwest(a)lists.ffnw.de due to their bounce score exceeding the mailing list's bounce_score_threshold. The triggering DSN if available is attached. --- and list members get corresponding notifications, but it seems Postfix did not create any bounces for them. I did not find any related bug report yet, but maybe I missed something. Best Regards Bjoern

4 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: My Server is unable to connect to Mailman REST API few times

by Shashikanth Komandoor

Thank you a lot Stephen for your attempt to help me. In fact I got some info from your response. Aren't you the crew that modified Mailman to interface with SMS or > something like that? If so, don't worry, it doesn't invalidate your > warranty, but it seems possible that it has something to do with this: Yes. We have taken the source code of mailman and customised the software to send SMS notifications along with the mail notifications when any mail is waiting for the pending approval. But not sure if it is creating a problem. Whether you have that modified Mailman or not, the messages above > suggest that there may have been a change in the schema of the > database that one side (presumably SQLAlchemy) knows about but have > not been propagated to the other (PostgreSQL). Have you perhaps done > an upgrade but not run the database migration script? I have not done any upgrade of any component of the mailman. Something is taking too long, the worker is timing out. That's > probably why you get the REST API not available message. Do the > sqlalchemy errors correlate with the timeouts? I am unable to state if both are correlating with each other. Thanks for sending it; sometimes it speeds up debugging. But in this > case you say that other lists are working, so site configuration > doesn't seem to be the problem. Is this particular list special in > some way? List configuration is different? No. All the lists on the server are similarly configured. May be with different settings of list or list members. > > Does PostgreSQL have any logs with "interesting" (or scary) messages > in them? No, I don't find any messages in postgresql logs. It appears I may have sent you on a wild goose chase. You have my > apologies. I am very happy you spent your precious time working on my issue. I am working with Mark to diagnose the underlying problem. Thank you both for this. But I am trying to delete a list on an urgent basis. Because of which I am getting the above said errors. I tried to delete through the interface, through curl command and through "mailman shell" but nothing led me to a positive result. Is there any work around to delete the list ? <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 5:22 PM Stephen J. Turnbull < turnbull.stephen.fw(a)u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote: > Hi Shashikanth, > > It appears I may have sent you on a wild goose chase. You have my > apologies. There's a very similar report today, so this appears to be > a Mailman 3 issue. For now, pleasee see Mark's post for the correct > way to increase timeout: > > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… > > I am working with Mark to diagnose the underlying problem. > > Steve > > > Stephen J. Turnbull writes: > > Shashikanth Komandoor writes: > > > > > I am currently running Mailman 3 with version 3.3.1 and > in > > > built postfix version 2.10.1-6 on RHEL 7.5 with PostgreSQL 11.7 > version > > > with default values in production environment from the past 4 months > > > almost. As of now, we are having around 1327 lists created on this. > > > > Aren't you the crew that modified Mailman to interface with SMS or > > something like that? If so, don't worry, it doesn't invalidate your > > warranty, but it seems possible that it has something to do with this: > > > > > After the above configuration, I found many errors like below in > > > mailman.log file: > > > > > > *sqlalchemy.exc.NoSuchColumnError: "Could not locate column in row > for > > > column 'pended.id <http://pended.id>'"* > > > > > > *sqlalchemy.exc.ResourceClosedError: This result object does not > return > > > rows. It has been closed automatically.* > > > > > > *sqlalchemy.exc.DatabaseError: (psycopg2.DatabaseError) error with > status > > > PGRES_TUPLES_OK and no message from the libpq* > > > > Whether you have that modified Mailman or not, the messages above > > suggest that there may have been a change in the schema of the > > database that one side (presumably SQLAlchemy) knows about but have > > not been propagated to the other (PostgreSQL). Have you perhaps done > > an upgrade but not run the database migration script? > > > > About the REST API not available error: > > > > > Something went wrong > > > > > > Mailman REST API not available. Please start Mailman core. > > > > > > But my mailman core was working fine in the > background. At > > > the same time I was able to do other operations on a few other lists. > > > > > > By the time I am getting the above error, the > mailman.log > > > recorded the below messages. > > > > > > *[2020-09-16 12:49:08 +0530] [2600] [CRITICAL] WORKER TIMEOUT > (pid:20234)* > > > > > > *[2020-09-16 12:49:08 +0530] [20234] [INFO] Worker exiting (pid: > 20234)* > > > > > > *[2020-09-16 12:49:09 +0530] [21042] [INFO] Booting worker with pid: > 21042* > > > > Something is taking too long, the worker is timing out. That's > > probably why you get the REST API not available message. Do the > > sqlalchemy errors correlate with the timeouts? > > > > I suspect the exit and reboot of the worker is normal but I haven't > > looked at this part of the code. > > > > > My mailman.cfg configuration is as below. The timeout > > > value is the default value. I did not set any customized value. > > > > Thanks for sending it; sometimes it speeds up debugging. But in this > > case you say that other lists are working, so site configuration > > doesn't seem to be the problem. Is this particular list special in > > some way? List configuration is different? > > > > > The above might be few of the errors. FYI, for the creation of each > list, > > > it is taking almost around 15 to 20 minutes. After multiple times of > the > > > above error messages, at some time, I am fortunately getting the list > > > created or some other operation getting done. > > > > This is quite strange. I don't see why this would suddenly start > > working after many minutes. > > > > Does PostgreSQL have any logs with "interesting" (or scary) messages > > in them? > > > > Maybe somebody else has some ideas, but this is as far as I can go. > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > > > > -- Thanks & Regards, Shashi Kanth.K 9052671936 <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

5 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: rest api runner not running

by Mark Sapiro

On 3/27/21 5:13 AM, Christine wrote: > Hi, > I have been using mailman for about ten years, now I want to move the > lists to another server, I have installed mailman3 there, most of it > seems to be running, but the "rest api runner" is not. Nothing is > listening on port 8001. What have I missed? What do I do to start the > restapi runner? I checked the logs, I don't see anything suspicious. > > this is what systemctl status says: > > root@lists:~# systemctl status mailman3 > ● mailman3.service - Mailman3 server > Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/mailman3.service; enabled; > vendor preset: enabled) > Active: failed (Result: timeout) since Sat 2021-03-27 12:04:06 UTC; > 6min ago > Docs: man:mailman(1) > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/ > Process: 173111 ExecStart=/usr/bin/mailman -C > /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg start --force (code=killed, signal=TERM) > > Mar 27 12:02:36 lists systemd[1]: Starting Mailman3 server... > Mar 27 12:04:06 lists systemd[1]: mailman3.service: start operation > timed out. Terminating. > Mar 27 12:04:06 lists systemd[1]: mailman3.service: Failed with result > 'timeout'. > Mar 27 12:04:06 lists systemd[1]: Failed to start Mailman3 server. Nothing is listening on port 8001 because apparently Mailman core failed to start. > There is nothing in mailman.log, nor in smtp.log What Mailman package is installed? Perhaps you should contact the packager for support. Can you run the mailman command manually, e.g. ``` sudo -u xxx mailman -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg ``` where `xxx` is the Mailman user which if I'm guessing correctly that this is a debian/ubuntu package, is `list`. Otherwise it might be `mailman`. That should just produce a list of `mailman` subcommands. If that works, try ``` sudo -u xxx mailman -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg info ``` and ``` sudo -u xxx mailman -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg start ``` and see what they produce. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Displaying addresses in emails from a Mailman 3 installation

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Steve Brown writes: > Yes, I intended to post to the list. I now see that if I use the > archives to post (as I'm doing now), As Mark said, you posted via Gmail (first Received header plus lots of GoogleMail internal data). > I don't see any apple iCloud, Gmail, Yahoo, Hotmail users mostly use the webmail of the provider so their address is a very good clue to the capabilities of their MUAs, but Apple Mail is an app on the iPhone or Mac. You'd have to look at the content of the mail (sometimes there's a User-Agent header, or iPhones often have "sent from my iPhone" as a footer) to know that someone is using Apple Mail, just as you'd need to do a bit of header spelunking to find out that I use the VM application on XEmacs on Mac. I know a fair number of Gmail users who use Apple Mail on Mac rather than Google's webmail, and a very few who have Outlook addresses. Your academic users very likely include a high percentage of Apple Mail users. "Wrap" is known to have been problematic with iPhones, unclear about Apple Mail on Mac (but it's a good bet given Apple's penchant for reusing Mac code on iOS). Since "Munge From" is now the industry standard for dealing with sites that use DMARC reject policies, it wasn't worth it to check if Apple Mail improved over time. > so I suspect that using the archive for search or posting would > also seem like a PITA. Sure. We have to acknowledge that all of these suggestions are just workarounds for a fundamental issue with current email MUAs (specifically, defaulting to unsigned mail and depending on providers to authenticate). -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan

8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Default values for lists in Mailman 3

by Mark Sapiro

On 9/19/24 05:46, Markus Grandpré wrote: > Dear list, > > I would like to activate the invitation setting for all lists as > default. In Mailman 2.1 I have done this in the file > </etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py>: > > > DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_OR_INVITE = Yes > > > How can I do this in Mailman 3? There is a draft merge request at https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/merge_requests/930 which implements a framework for setting Postorius defaults and creates a setting to set the default for pre-verified on the mass subscription page. Once merged, this can easily be extended to provide a default for Invitation. In the mean time, you can only do this by patching src/postorius/forms/list_forms.py like ``` --- a/src/postorius/forms/list_forms.py +++ b/src/postorius/forms/list_forms.py @@ -1283,7 +1283,7 @@ class ListMassSubscription(forms.Form): invitation = forms.BooleanField( label=_('Invitation'), - initial=False, + initial=True, required=False, help_text=_( 'If checked, the other checkboxes are ignored and the users will ' ``` > Can I also transfer other default values > like: > > ... > DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en' > DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 1 > DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_OR_INVITE = Yes > DEFAULT_PRIVATE_ROSTER = 2 > DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = Off > DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE = 1 > ... > > from the very same configuration file to Mailman 3? Is there a > documentation of the default values for lists in Mailman 3? This is done by creating a list style with the desired defaults. See https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/styles/doc… for documentation of styles and see https://gitlab.com/mailman/example-mailman-plugin for an example of creating a plugin in Mailman core to make a persistent style. There is no specific doc for the list settings. You need to look at https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/blob/master/src/mailman/styles/base.py for the various settings and https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/blob/master/src/mailman/styles/default… to see which default classes are applied for various styles. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

1 year, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Settings for prevention of spam obfuscation

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Richard Rosner writes: > And yes, while there may be edge cases where these bad practices If you're willing to impose that judgment on your posters, just announce that you're going to start discarding posts that don't satisfy From alignment, give it a week, and start doing it. That will ensure that the Sender is always in the From field. No more, and no less. I wouldn't do it, but it's a perfectly effective way to achieve what you seem to believe is ideal. > And until someone can create an ML model that's not gobbling up > resources for training and that doesn't need thousands of emails to > train with, there's only so much you can do. SpamBayes has been around for decades.[1] It's not ChatGPT-level, but it also doesn't take "significant resources" or thousands of emails for training (your current spambucket and INBOX will be a decent start) and you can train it on the fly as mail comes in. The only resources required are a couple of hours to install it and learn how to feed ham and spam corpuses into it, and a few minutes every so often to feed increments of ham and spam to it. You can even avoid that amount of effort by feeding the spam and ham it outputs back into it.[2] Almost certainly you can plug it into rspamd. > While DKIM and DMARC are great, they are useless when the vast > majority of senders don't have any DKIM signatures. For ARC it's > not as uncommon to be present, but the situation isn't that much > better. Please stop. These claims are not going to pass on this list. We know better.[3] If you are in a special situation where they bear some resemblance to the truth, please explain. Maybe we can come up with a solution for that situation together. But they are wildly wrong in the context of Internet email in general. Look, Richard, spam is extremely frustrating to all of us. There's a lot of effort and talent that has gone into combatting spam, and a fair amount of knowledge about it has accumulated in the people who participate in Mailman lists. If you want help with the particular spam that's getting into your lists, we'll be happy to help (although help channels for your preferred filtering software might be more productive). But the way to get help is to explain what your problem is, and what you've done that isn't working, in some detail. You telling us how we can fix it in Mailman is almost always a non- starter. Either it's going to screw up the mail system with little anti-spam effect, or it's been tried and shown to be ineffective. It's certainly not persuasive if you haven't shown us what the problem is at a more granular level than "we all hate spam!" It's possible that we'll come back to your suggestion sooner or later. Sometimes there's no other way that's better. But that's quite rare. ;-) Footnotes: [1] In fact, I've recently seen the (otherwise unsupported ;-) claim that spam-filtering was the original motivation for ML research. :-) [2] This leads to overfitting and increased error rates after a while. YMMV. [3] For example, in my current spam-bucket, all of which I've eyeballed, there are 7519 Message-IDs and 9521 DKIM-Signatures. Of 206 messages from external sites in my now spam-free INBOX, there are 336 DKIM-Signatures. Since it's common to have more than one DKIM-Signature per message, that doesn't prove that essentially all of those messages are signed. But it sure seems likely! And ARC is much less common: 4903 ARC-Seals in spam, and 155 in INBOX.

2 years

[MM3-users] Re: How to prevent members to attach executables (exe, bat, ...) to the emails sent to list

by Mark Sapiro

On 9/30/20 9:25 AM, Mohsen Masoudfar wrote: > Hi, > > I am trying to find a way for content filtering to remove executables from the emails sent to the list. I found some hints under: > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/stable/build/lib/mailman/handlers/docs/fi… > > but still not clear how to do it for all type of excecutables. There are four list settings that affect this. They are pass_types, pass_extensions, filter_types and filter_extensions. the pass_* settings specify message parts the list will accept while the filter_* settings specify message parts the list won't accept. The page at <https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/stable/src/mailman/handlers/docs/filterin…> only discusses filter_types and needs updating for the others. Filtering by extension only works on message parts that have an associated file name. Thus, while you can add things like 'exe', 'bat', 'cmd', 'com', 'pif', 'scr', 'vbs' and 'cpl' to filter_extensions, it won't be completely effective. A better approach is to use MIME types[1] and only allow those you want. For a discussion list, a reasonable set is what this list uses: multipart message/rfc822 text application/pgp-signature This will accept any multipart and message/rfc822 parts for further analysis and ultimately accept only text/* and application/pgp-signature elemental parts. If you want to accept images and pdfs, you can add image application/pdf See <https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/media-types.xhtml> for a list of all registered MIME types. Note that these are all of the form main_type/sub_type and putting just main_type in *_types passes or filters all subtypes for that maintype. [1] You can use both, e.g. filter_extensions to remove those you don't want and pass_types to accept the MIME types you do want. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Do you struggle with message rejected. AUP#CDRBL while using mailman with your ISP email relay?

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Michael Richardson writes: > My problem, on lists.sandelman.ca aka lists.tcpdump.org, is > messages that appear to have been processed by my MTA (according to > postfix logs), but which are never delivered, nor held. Lost > somewhere in mailman3 queue. Sometimes they show up after a host > reboot. The queues are implemented the same way mail queues have been implemented since the Neolithic Era: save a file to disk, report success to the previous hop, then try to send its content to the next hop. If that succeeds, delete the file. If it does not, either send back a failure notice and delete the file, or hold the file for a later retry, depending on why it failed. The queues are in $var_dir/queue/*. If you don't find the messages there, they were delivered successfully as far as Mailman could determine (ie, the outgoing smtp process reported a 2xx status). You can use the "mailman qfile" command to examine the contents of queue files. The shunt and bad queues are "sinks" -- if a message gets into those queues, Mailman will not try to deliver them because they caused some kind of error. The "mailman unshunt" (no argument needed) will try to resend messages in the shunt queue. Depending on why they got there in the first place, and whether that problem was resolved, they may be successfully sent, or they may end up back in the shunt queue. I forget how messages get into the bad queue, but there's no automated way to handle them at all. Check the mailman.log and smtp.log logs (in $log_dir, by default $var_dir/logs) for reports on what mailman was up to. mailman.log is pretty verbose and interesting information is relatively sparse. -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirus Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan

10 months, 2 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Long-shot cry for help

by Matthew Alberti

David, I had alot of the same challenges you are currently seeing. Frankly, a working installation using the Ubuntu packages is seemingly impossible. After trying that and also pip, I elected to use the Docker method. https://github.com/maxking/docker-mailman Sanity preserved. It is very easy. Just an idea. - Matt Alberti ⁣Get BlueMail for Android On Jun 3, 2021, 9:35 AM, at 9:35 AM, David Partain via Mailman-users <mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> wrote: >Hi, > >I'm having severe operational issues with my mailman3 site. My site is >built on standard Ubuntu packages (18.04), and they're ancient. I'm >having two big issues... > >1. I have the old smiley problem that I've had from the very beginning >and never solved. I have added 'charset': 'utf8mb4' to the relevant >config file (/etc/mailman3/mailman-web.py), but that hasn't "taken", in >the sense that the calls to mysql do not include the charset stuff. > >/usr/share/mailman3-web/settings_local.py links to >/etc/mailman3/mailman-web.py and there is no file >/usr/share/mailman3-web/settings_local.pyc. I moved it out of the way >hoping it'd get re-built, but it has not been in the months since. > >The result of this that I get hundreds of mail messages to root >(thousands, really), rapidly filling / with mail in /var/mail/root and >logging in /var/log/mail.log. The mail has something like "Subject: >[Django] ERROR (EXTERNAL IP): Internal Server Error: >/mailman3/hyperkitty/api/mailman/archive" and "DataError at >/hyperkitty/api/mailman/archive (1366, u"Incorrect string value: >'\\xF0\\x9F\\x98\\x8A\\x0D\\x0A...' for column 'content' at row 1")" > >I have tried to trace to figure out what file is _actually_ controlling >the calls to mysql. There's a file called >/var/lib/ucf/cache/:etc:mailman3:mailman-web.py as well, but I have no >idea what that is or if it might be used. > >Is there something like 'mailman info' for mailman-web so I can see >what files are being used? I'd love to fix this... > >2. There's this one curious cron job... > >* * * * * www-data [ -f /usr/bin/django-admin ] && python2.7 >/usr/bin/django-admin runjobs minutely --pythonpath >/usr/share/mailman3-web --settings settings > >(yes, I know python2.7 is a problem... see the last paragraph below). > >These jobs start piling up. They run & run & run, and eventually the >machine screeches to halt when it runs out of memory and goes belly up. >This is a relatively recent development. After a while, I'll have 5 or >6 or more of these all running, looking something like this: > >www-data 6366 6364 99 15:00 ? 00:12:27 python2.7 >/usr/bin/django-admin runjobs minutely --pythonpath >/usr/share/mailman3-web --settings settings > >What this means in practice right now is that I'm forced to go in and >kill these on a regular basis or the machine _will_ die and people >_will_ shout at me. > >Does anyone have any idea why these might not be finishing? Can I >comment this out completely & live happier? Any help whatsoever? > >----------------------------------- > >Finally, I should add that I know my current installation is >fundamentally flawed because I chose to go with distro packages. I >simply cannot fix it. My strong recommendation to others who follow me >is that they do NOT do this. Bite the bullet and install via pip... I'm >now in the process of setting up a new server that is completely based >on the latest via pip installation. I have to get away from what I have >or lose my sanity. > >Cheers, > >David > >_______________________________________________ >Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org >To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org >https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/

4 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: If I manually add email addresses to a list and then delete them, how do i permanent delete them from Users?

by Eggert Ehmke

Works for me too! Thank you. Only the path to python is #! /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python In my installation. Cheers, Eggert Am Dienstag, 25. April 2023, 22:51:52 CEST schrieb Mark London via Mailman-users: > Andrew - The script had: > > DELETE_MAILMAN_USER = False > > When I set it to True, it got rid of the orphaned email addresses. > Thanks! - Mark > > On 4/25/2023 6:02 AM, Andrew Hodgson wrote: > > > Mark London wrote: > > > > > > > >> I added some email addresses manually to a mailing list and then removed > >> them. But now I can't find how to totally remove them from mailman3. > >> They show up in the Users list. > > > You may find this script useful: > > https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/clean_users.py > > > > > > > > I have it running in a cronjob. Thread discussing the script can be found > > here: > > > > > > > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread > > /GH4K42T66FU5PBHJH6ZDQEIUTXVDSLOC/ > > > > > > > TLDR you end up with orphaned Django users both from when users > > subscribe/unsubscribe and due to spam signups using the Postorius form > > which never get confirmed. > > > > > > > Thanks. > > Andrew. > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > Archived at: > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message > /K3PO2XMCDR2342GVPHEQJNZPVPEPY6R4/ > > This message sent to eggert(a)eehmke.de ___________________________________________ Mailman's content filtering has removed the following MIME parts from this message. Replaced multipart/alternative part with first alternative.

2 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Upgrade-path from Ubuntu18LTS to recent mailman release

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Stefan Bauer writes: > thanks alot. That looks promising. Can we just copy the current > mailman3-database and take the configurations or is there a specific > migration path we have to follow? Much of the documentation on mailman.readthedocs.io discusses migrations and upgrades. You should read those for general hints. The distro Mailman to venv Mailman case is more discussed here on the mailing list than in those documents. I don't have pointers to those threads or the time to look offhand, maybe over the next few weeks as I work on our GSoC project. If you do find any, and would post them here, I'll make sure they get into the docs. The main thing is to backup Mailman configs (probably in /etc/mailman or /etc/mailman3) and the backend database (core, Postorius, possibly HyperKitty depending on configuration, and the django-mailman auth stuff) before trying to migrate. (For the backend database I would just dump the RDBMS unless non-Mailman content is really huge.) The nature of the virtualenv install is such that it *will not* overwrite any of the distro files at all (as long as you put it in /usr/local or /opt). However, you want to preserve the configs and database and reuse them, so those *must* be backed up. > We are currently running 3.1.1-9 (Ubuntu 18). Ubuntu 18 is probably old enough that you need to be careful about MySQL and its derivatives. The specific problems are (1) you need to specify the right UTF-8 variant for the coding system, and (2) more recent versions of Mailman tend to make certain records overflow. If you're using PostgreSQL these caveats *do not* apply. If you're using sqlite3 (I doubt it, but just for completeness) you should change to PostgreSQL or MySQL. If you're using something else (same caveat), I can't really say. Probably somebody out there is using Oracle or whatever, but we don't know about that. :-) Steve

3 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Messages not going to held queue

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Mail Person writes: > I have it set I guess by "it" you mean the user's moderation status, but there are *many* variables that affect whether mail is delivered or not. These include emergency moderation, spam filtering, and HTML handling (and there are probably others I don't remember off the top of my head), as well as individual variables such as not_metoo and the moderation status. All I can rule out is emergency_moderation, because that would prevent your test mail from being delivered when the test user is set to allow. > the user did not get a moderation email, myself as the moderator did > not get a notification, and Postorius did not show them in the held > messages queue. When you set the test user to accept, did you set it to "accept" or to "default processing"? Setting it to "accept" bypasses almost all of the acceptance checks. Usually "default processing" is what you want. > As far as logs, in var/log/mailman3 I do not see any logs other > than mailman.log, plugins.log and smtp.log. In the SMTP log I can > see that the message is getting to mailman: Does mailman.log show any errors? > This leads me to believe the message is being discarded or for some > reason not getting to the moderation queue. Sure, but Mailman doesn't do that for no reason. The only thing I can think of offhand that might happen in a mostly default configuration is that you're using an MUA that creates a multipart message where the plain part is empty and the actual message is HTML (yes, I've seen that in the wild). In some configurations that would cause the HTML part to be deleted, then the message could be recognized as empty and discarded. I haven't analyzed the code thoroughly but I don't recall a log message on that execution path so it might fit your case.

3 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mails are stuck in Mailman Pipeline Queue

by Mark Sapiro

On 3/26/22 21:01, Shashikanth Komandoor wrote: > > But the below trace back is observed during mailman service stopping: This doesn't say much ... ...> Mar 27 09:01:22 2022 (5864) Uncaught runner exception: > Mar 27 09:01:22 2022 (5864) Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/core/runner.py", > line 173, in _one_iteration ... > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/core/runner.py", > line 114, in signal_handler > raise RunnerInterrupt > mailman.interfaces.runner.RunnerInterrupt > Mar 27 09:01:22 2022 (5864) SHUNTING: 1648351882.6693938+ > c2e6ed709646a7680c73059b52d2f0451836e591 > Mar 27 09:01:22 2022 (5864) digest runner exiting. Above, digest runner was interrupted in processing and shunted the message it was working on. and below, pipeline runner was interrupted in processing and shunted the message it was working on. > Mar 27 09:01:22 2022 (5860) Uncaught runner exception: > Mar 27 09:01:22 2022 (5860) Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/core/runner.py", > line 173, in _one_iteration > self._process_one_file(msg, msgdata) > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/core/runner.py", > line 266, in _process_one_file > keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/runners/pipeline.py", > line 37, in _dispose > process(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline) > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/core/pipelines.py", > line 50, in process > handler.process(mlist, msg, msgdata) > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/ > mailman/handlers/member_recipients.py", line 84, in process > for member in mlist.regular_members.members > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/ > mailman/handlers/member_recipients.py", line 83, in <genexpr> > recipients = set(member.address.email > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/model/roster.py", > line 239, in members > yield from self._get_members(DeliveryMode.regular) > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/model/roster.py", > line 226, in _get_members > if member.delivery_mode in delivery_modes: > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/model/member.py", > line 205, in delivery_mode > return self._lookup('delivery_mode') > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/model/member.py", > line 167, in _lookup > pref = getattr(self.address.preferences, preference) > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/sqlalchemy/orm/attributes.py", > line 287, in __get__ > return self.impl.get(instance_state(instance), dict_) > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/sqlalchemy/orm/attributes.py", > line 723, in get > value = self.callable_(state, passive) > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/sqlalchemy/orm/strategies.py", > line 760, in _load_for_state > session, state, primary_key_identity, passive > File "<string>", line 1, in <lambda> > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/sqlalchemy/orm/strategies.py", > line 850, in _emit_lazyload > session.query(self.mapper), primary_key_identity > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/sqlalchemy/ext/baked.py", > line 603, in _load_on_pk_identity > setup, tuple(elem is None for elem in primary_key_identity) The above says the runner was doing a database lookup. This may be a coincidence or there may be some database locking issue that underlies the issue with the pipeline runner. > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/core/runner.py", > line 114, in signal_handler > raise RunnerInterrupt > mailman.interfaces.runner.RunnerInterrupt > Mar 27 09:01:22 2022 (5860) SHUNTING: 1648351882.8537986+ > 9bf59cb23a71a4bae65536bfdbec0abb261adaa0 > Mar 27 09:01:22 2022 (5860) pipeline runner exiting. I suggest doing the following assuming your Mailman database is not sqlite3 (if it is, just do step 2): 1) Stop mailman core and maybe other mailman services too. 2) Assuming the two shunted messages are still in Mailman's shunt queue, run `mailman unshunt` to unshunt them. If there are more shunted messages, inspect them with `mailman qfile` to see if you want them, They may be spam. 3) Restart your database server. 4) Start Mailman core and any other stopped services. Also, look in the database server logs for any issues. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Postorius 1.2.3 and MailmanClient 3.2.1 is now out

by Jonas Meurer

Abhilash Raj: > On Sat, Jan 26, 2019, at 5:10 AM, Jonas Meurer wrote: >> Hey Abhilash, >> >> Thanks a lot for your work on mailman3! >> >> Abhilash Raj: >>> I am very pleased to announce (a bit late) that Postorius 1.2.3 and MailmanClient 3.2.1 is now out. >>> >>> The full set of changelog can be found in the documentation[1][2]. The most notable feature that >>> I can think of is non-member management in Postorius. >>> >>> New releases are available on PyPI[3][4]. >> >> For earlier releases, you provided GnuPG signature files to >> cryptographically verify that the release files were not tampered with. >> >> I couldn't find such signature files for the two latest releases. Would >> you mind adding them? When packaging for Debian, I prefer to check the >> GnuPG signatures before uploading new releases. Also, the signature >> files get uploaded to the Debian archive as well so they can be checked >> by everybody. That way we can cryptographically proof that the Debian >> package is based on the original tarball that got packaged and signed by >> upstream. > > > Ah, sorry about that. I completely forgot about that. > > I am not sure if I can upload signatures after uploading the tarballs, I'll try to find out if that is possible. Thanks a lot, that would be awesome. I'll wait for it before doing the Debian package uploads. Just to let you know: we're close to soft freeze in Debian, so in order to get those uploads into the next stable release (Buster), they'll have to be uploaded rather soon. The same holds for other pending releases of Mailman3 components: Just in case you plan to do new upstream releases anytime soon, it's still possible to upload them to Debian in time for Buster. Cheers jonas

7 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: uncaught bounce messages

by Mark Sapiro

On 10/23/21 10:51 AM, David Bremner wrote: > > I'm getting (many) uncaught bounce messages for one user. Other than > forcibly unsubscribing them, is there anything I can do? I hesitate to > post this message publically, but here is what I can see, somewhat > anonymized If you send me the complete bounce message off list, I can see if it should be added to the recognition at https://gitlab.com/warsaw/flufl.bounce/. BTW, is flufl.bounce in your installation version 4.0? If not you can update via pip install -U flufl.bounce which may help. Actually, depending on how these where installed, it might be necessart=y to do pip install -U flufl.bounce flufl.lock flufl.i18n To avoid import errors due to packaging issues. > The MIME structure looks like > > └┬╴multipart/mixed 7030 bytes > ├─╴text/plain 442 bytes > ├─╴message/delivery-status 176 bytes > └─╴text/rfc822-headers 5301 bytes This is not a RFC 3464 compliant DSN which looks like the above except the top level is multipart/report, not multipart/mixed. However, our recognizer shouldn't care as it only looks at the message/delivery-status part. > In /var/log/mailman3/bounce.log I see lines like > > Oct 23 08:20:00 2021 (5320) Bounce message w/no discernable addresses: <hex-digits(a)foo.bar> <hex-digits(a)foo.bar> is the Message-ID: > In the delivery-status part I see A compliant DSN will also have a Reporting-MTA: section preceding the Final-Recipient: section. > Final-Recipient: rfc822; fub(a)foo.bar > Action: delayed > Status: 4.0.0 This is not a bounce. It is a 'delivery delayed' message. If delivery is not accomplished within an MTA configured time (days), it will turn into a 5.x.x failure which is a bounce, but since fub(a)foo.bar was not recognized, the DSN is non-compliant in some way. In any case, please send me a copy of the bounce so I can see about recognizing it. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Error on timeout vs retry values

by Abhilash Raj

On Sat, Jul 17, 2021, at 11:23 PM, Robert Moody wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I have recently setup a new mailman3 service using the venv method. > Everything is functionally working however I keep getting an error sent > to the mailman email every min which I can not seem to figure out why. > > /opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/django_q/conf.py:142: > UserWarning: Retry and timeout are misconfigured. Set retry larger than > timeout, > failure to do so will cause the tasks to be retriggered before > completion. > See > https://django-q.readthedocs.io/en/latest/configure.html#retry for details. > See https://django-q.readthedocs.io/en/latest/configure.html#retry > for details.""" > > I have edited the timeout and retry values in the > /opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/django_q/conf.py file and > restarted both mailman and mailman-web however this still keeps repeating. You shouldn't edit files in `site-packages` directory as they are part of the package itself and could cause issues. What you want to do is override it in your settings.py (or settings_local.py) file for Django. I am not sure which guide you followed to install Mailman, but it should be somewhere in /opt/mailman/ I suppose (not in venv/ for sure). It should look something like this https://mailman-web.readthedocs.io/en/latest/settings.html#mailman_web.sett… Just the value of retry should be just > than timeout as the error says, so not necessarily same values, but so far 300 and 360 has been working good for us and I haven't seen any report to increase them. > > Any ideas? > > Regards, > > Robert > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

4 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Problems configuring hyperkitty

by Thomas Hochstein

Alain D D Williams wrote: > I assume that that will create some database tables. Hopefully this will have > been done by installing package python3-mailman-hyperkitty. You'll need mailman3, mailman3-web and python3-mailman-hyperkitty installed (or mailman3-full, which includes those three). > • What database & tables will that be ? It would be really useful to be told so > that I can check. +-----------------------------------+ | Tables_in_mailman3web | +-----------------------------------+ | account_emailaddress | | account_emailconfirmation | | auth_group | | auth_group_permissions | | auth_permission | | auth_user | | auth_user_groups | | auth_user_user_permissions | | django_admin_log | | django_content_type | | django_mailman3_maildomain | | django_mailman3_profile | | django_migrations | | django_q_ormq | | django_q_schedule | | django_q_task | | django_session | | django_site | | hyperkitty_attachment | | hyperkitty_email | | hyperkitty_favorite | | hyperkitty_lastview | | hyperkitty_mailinglist | | hyperkitty_mailinglist_moderators | | hyperkitty_mailinglist_owners | | hyperkitty_profile | | hyperkitty_sender | | hyperkitty_tag | | hyperkitty_tagging | | hyperkitty_thread | | hyperkitty_threadcategory | | hyperkitty_vote | | postorius_emailtemplate | | socialaccount_socialaccount | | socialaccount_socialapp | | socialaccount_socialapp_sites | | socialaccount_socialtoken | +-----------------------------------+ > • I have several different maildomains each with several lists. I think (!) you'll have to add each mail domain in Django, i.e. <http://yourhost.example/mailman3/admin/>, section "Django Mailman 3", "Mail domains". > Some lists in different domains have the same name. Doesn't matter, as the list name for all parts of Mailman3 is "listname(a)domain.example", i.e. including the domain. > One of the next things that I will need to do is to import archives from > mailman2. How does the command below change for the different domains ? > > django-admin hyperkitty_import --pythonpath example_project --settings settings -l ADDRESS mbox_file [mbox_file ...] AFAIS you'll have to use "/usr/share/mailman3-web/manage.py" instead of "django-admin". For me, that command has worked: | python3 /usr/share/mailman3-web/manage.py hyperkitty_import -l listname(a)domain.example /path/to/listname.mbox You'll have to do that for every list, regardless of domain. > Is there some better documentation that I have failed to find ? Not that I know of. Most is - more or less - documented, but it's not easy to apply the documentation to a Debian installation. It was a bumpy ride, but not really that problematic, as I remember; some googling and try and error was involved. ;) -thh

1 year, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Basic settings for a discussion list

by Abhilash Raj

On Sat, Aug 31, 2019, at 9:25 PM, paul(a)arenson.org wrote: > Over the last 20 hours I have been trying to figure out setup for list > members to sign up. One person has kindly helped out, though I am > still unsure of the difference between the several signups. That > thread is here and I welcome more advice. > > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/… > > But it occurs to me that my problem is that I have not actually > configured my list. So this thread is for help on that. I have found a > guide for general users here: > http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/userguide.html > > But I have only found a highly technical guide for administrators here: > https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailmanclient/en/latest/src/mailmanclien… > > It is written for coders and I am looking for a guide similar to the > one for users. It seems not to exist yet. > > WHAT I WANT > Discussion only list. Ideally anyone who signs up via the various ways > should be able to get the archives and post via email and the interface > if they want. The list should be closed to others. > > In the absence of any guide, all I can do is cross check with you guys > and hope I am on the right track. I am non technical, although I > managed a Mailman 2 list without difficulty. > > > 1) FIRST ANOMALY > Under https://list.tokyoprogressive.org/postorius/accounts/subscriptions/ > I see myself twice: > > List Name Subscription Address Delivery Mode Role > discuss.list.tokyoprogressive.org paul(a)tokyoprogressive.org None member > discuss.list.tokyoprogressive.org paul(a)tokyoprogressive.org regular owner > > Is this correct? I added My name in one field somewhere and this is the > result. I even got a welcome message. > I think it is because I subscribed to my own list.If this was not > necessary, what should I do? No, this isn't anomaly. Check out the "Role" column. You are an "owner" of the list and are thus allowed to change the list settings. You are also a "member", which means you will get emails from this mailing list. > > Global based preferences are listed. Address and email based ones are > not showing either enabled or disabled. They are unset, which means they are set to whatever the default value in the backend is. I know this is terrible in many regards, but we have an issue open for this. Hopefully, this will improve in future releases. > > 2) MANAGE LISTS > > For myself I have done the following in my MAILING LIST SETTINGS > > Subscribe to this list > My email and name > (Maybe that is why i am listed twice) That's right. > > Now I see > > 3) Users > For now only me- I am listed as member and owner. > There will be no other moderators or owners > I have no idea what a non member is (if they register aren't they a member?) I explained non-member in other email you sent. > > 4) Templates > This is showing nothing at this point. Before it was. I am not sure > what i did to stop it from showing. Perhaps because I made it a private > list? If this is a new list, it will probably not have any templates. > > 5) Settings > a) List identity > I have it set for NOT SHOWING on the Index page because I will link to > it from my news magazine website as a way to comment on articles. Is > this ok? Other data will be filled in later. I think I am confusing > this with private list. I also will have no other list. > > b) AUTO RESPOND LIST OWNER-- I added a short note thanking people. > Respond and Continue Processing > > c) AUTO RESPOND POSTER--Your message has been been received. If you > are a member, it should be posted soon. Respond and Continue Processing > > d) AUTO RESPOND REQUESTS--No auto response > OTHER THINGS DEFAULT > > e) URL WELCOME MESSAGE--NOT SURE. I want people to subscribe > themselves but I also have 500 people from another list from DADA I > will import. I want them automatically be able to post. Is it > possible? If so, I hope to add them manually. DO I compose a text on > my website and welcome them by adding the URL, or enter it in my list? This option is deprecated, and actually now removed. > > f) NOTIFY OF MEMBERSHIP CHANGES--Yes > > g) ALTER MESSAGES ---I have left most things as they are. However, as > this is a discussion list, I want replies ONLY to go to the list. I > chose that. > > h) DMARC --I have left as is > > i) DIGEST--I have left as is > > > 6) MASS OPERATIONS--I have left as is > > 7) BAN--left as is > > 8) MESSAGE ACCEPTANCE--I have left as is > > > 9) HEADER FILTERS--left as is > > 10) ARCHIVES--Private Archives (Maybe this is why templates do not show???) > > 11) SUBSCRIPTION POLICY--MODERATE-- I intend to send them an email to > confirm their reasons for subscribing to avoid spammers. > > LAST THING. My Gravity does not work. I edited it online as per > instructions but it does not appear. > > That is all I can think of. > > Thanks in advance. > > paul > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

6 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: Can't subscribe on new site/domain

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Odhiambo Washington via Mailman-users writes: > Your first and greatest mistake is that you installed Mailman using > OS packages and that is NOT supported on this list. Of course we support people who are using OS packages. You don't have to if you don't want to, but please don't suggest they should go away. And your advice to wipe and reinstall from PyPI is often appropriate, but that is not so here because they have a working site already. Only one new domain is failing. We do recommend *against* using using OS packages, because we can't support them very well, and the Debian family tends to let the packages get quite old before updating to recent Mailman releases. So for many kinds of problems, the first-line support for OS package users *should* be the OS distribution. It's easy enough to tell them that when it's so. In this case, Flo says 3.3.8 is installed, which is almost 3 years old now. It's quite possible there's a Mailman bug in that version we have since fixed. Unfortunately, I don't have a clue. Maybe Mark does. > You can remedy that by wiping away the packages and installing MM3 > by following the guide below: > > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html @Flo: It is possible to do this safely and preserve your existing sites and lists. If we can't help you with your existing installation, we can guide you through this process. The basic idea is that because almost all the interesting data is in your database or /etc/mailman3, you can just plug in the new Mailman system, point things at the right places (probably the file system layout will change so you'll need to change some things in mailman.cfg, settings.py, and some related systems like logrotate and systemd). -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan

4 months, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: User settings triggers error

by Mark Dadgar

On Jun 18, 2020, at 4:08 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > On 6/18/20 3:33 PM, Mark Dadgar wrote: >> >> Any thoughts on how to salvage ~20 years of list archives? > > > The archives shouldn't be an issue. I don't think they are involved in > the corruption, but anyway, hopefully you still have the archive mbox > you imported. Then for the messages since then, you should be able to > get a mbox from hyperkitty with something like > > https://example.com/hyperkitty/list/listname@example.com/export/arbitrary-n… > > with the obvious substitutions and appropriate start and end dates. > > The list is trickier. If you are going to start over with a clean > install, and if you have a config.pck that you imported from MM 2.1, I > suggest the following: > > Use the `mailman members` command to get a list of all members. Then > depending on how much work you want to do, also get separate lists of > plaintext and mime digest members and members with delivery disabled. > > Then on the new install, import the config.pck with `mailman import21` > and import the archive mboxes with hyperkitty_import. > > Run `mailman members --sync` with the full current membership list, and > record the [ADD]s. Then you can match the [ADD]s against the plain and > mime digest members and those with delivery disabled and set their options. > > That's a lot to do, but it should get you close. I would probably be satisfied with just exporting the current list of member email addresses + names and letting people go back and change their list settings to switch to digest, etc. if necessary. > On the other hand, if you can wait, we might be able to figure out how > to fix this, and it's even possible the underlying issue isn't database > corruption. Sure - I can wait. Thank you. - Mark ----- mark(a)pdc-racing.net | 408-348-2878

5 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Importing config and archives only partially succeeded?

by Eric Broens

I just notice in the webserver logfile, the same request for the same mlist, msgid and key several times per second for about 3 hours now: "GET /archives/api/mailman/urls?mlist=....&msgid=...&key=... HTTP/1.1" 200 105 "-" "python-requests/2.25.0" The request seems to originate from the server where the mailman suite is installed Best Regards,Eric On Sunday, December 13, 2020, 01:54:54 AM GMT+1, Eric Broens via Mailman-users <mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> wrote: The settings - Archiving, are not different from the ones that do show the messages:"Private Archives" selected, and Active archivers "hyperkitty" also selected. I was trying to find out how the hyperkitty page gets the mails from the database, and if I can start from there.Or maybe something is not completely correct in the database tables. Best Regards,Eric On Sunday, December 13, 2020, 01:27:53 AM GMT+1, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: On 12/12/20 3:56 PM, Eric Broens via Mailman-users wrote: > After everything was imported, and I noticed that the mails were not shown in the archives for half of the mailinglists, I ran "manage.py update_index" to index the mails for all mailinglists.This command is still running for hours.Since it builds the search index, I don't expect that this would make the mails available on the webpage. I agree, that won't make the mails available on the webpage. If you're using the default Whoosh search engine, "hours" is not unexpected. Elasticsearch is much faster and Xapian faster still. What do you see in Postorius - Settings -> Archiving for the lists whose messages don't show? -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/

5 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: Upgrade Mailmam Core from

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Sascha Rissel writes: > I wonder a bit how deep I have to dive into these individual configuration files. > Is there some minimal config for a standard Ubuntu/Debian system? I think that if you follow the "venv" process as described in <https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html?>, it covers everything you must configure. There are about a dozen places that you must check in mailman.cfg, such as the location of your MTA and its port (for the simplest installations, host=127.0.0.1, port=25 will do), mailman's LMTP port (usually the default of 8024 will do), and the credentials for accessing the REST interface (restadmin and restpass: change these!!) Pretty sure there are others. There are quite a few decisions that need to be made in mailman-web settings.py, including setting the REST credentials to the ones you chose in mailman.cfg, and setting up your database (sqlite3 is great for quick experiments or tiny installations with 10 posts/year ;-). And I don't think there are any MTAs or webservers that are plug and play with Mailman: you have to configure the MTA to forward mailman list addresses to Mailman's LMTP port, and usually there's nontrivial configuration of the namespaces that are to be forwarded to Mailman/Django and those that are served directly (such as CSS style files) by the webserver. Django also has its own access credentials that must be coordinated with mailman.cfg I think. So "minimal" is still pretty complex. While I would be *extremely* cautious about using any *values* for parameters that are specified in Brian Carpenter's HOWTO <https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Howto_Install_Mailman3_On_Debian10> (this is the one that Odhiambo suggested, and it's a really valuable resource), I'm pretty sure it accurately covers all the steps you need to take in configuration. You may find it easier to read than our manual. Going through that and checking your venv configuration against the steps in the HOWTO would be a good way to confirm that you've got a good configuration.

3 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: EMWD/Affinity/Empathy in 2023

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Mark Sapiro writes: > I have had some contact [with EMWD], but not much. As far as I > know, they are still in business and offering list hosting > including Mailman 3 lists with Affinity and Empathy. They no longer > offer support for installation and maintenance of Mailman on other > people's servers. That exactly describes my experience. To jaboyib556, I recommend you contact them directly and make your own judgment. I do not know the current operators of EMWD, but I do know that the Carpenter family carefully vetted several bids. And their concentration on servers they run suggests they know what they're good at and have focus. I think they're a good bet, but only you can judge. > As far as I know, it was only EMWD that did this and for business > reasons, kept it proprietary. I corresponded with Brian about this.[1] He said that a third-party consultant (not sure if they're related to the current operators) built the Affinity and Empathy applications in PHP on a limited budget, and he felt that he needed to keep them proprietary as a temporary "no competition" measure until they could build up a nest egg to support on-going development. He said, and I have no reason to disbelieve him, that he thought it would take a year to build the reputation, another year to recoup the investment, and within that time frame he planned an open source release. I suspect he planned a Aladdin Ghostscript-like strategy: with the publication of release N, he would release N-1 as open source. He made no commitments, but I believe that was his aspiration. He was always a great supporter of Mailman, giving generously of his time and expertise to people on our lists including those hosting with other businesses. We miss him a lot. Footnotes: [1] On friendly terms: "hope for an open-source release" is not a matter of moral imperative with me, and I believe I speak for all Mailman developers on that.

3 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman not able to process "big" requests

by Darren Smith

Our installation at https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com has around 33,000 lists and somewhere around 1.5 million members. We have lists with 5,000+ members. Note that I haven't tried any mass subscriptions. When we upgraded from mailman 2 to mailman 3, we used the old .pck files and ran the import on each of the lists. It did take about 6 weeks to do the full import all 33,000 lists. I'm not joking. As for sending messages - there isn't any problem sending that many messages out, but then we are also not trying to subscribe list members at the time. We are, though, in the process of importing the old archives from our old mailman 2 system. This doesn't seem to affect the rest of the system. We have seen some inefficiencies in the new system, such as the front page of postorius - loading all of the information for 200 lists (if the user set the "lists per page" to 200) was bringing down the system. We have our own metadata system to be able to search for lists by state/region/surname (ours is a genealogy mailing list system), so we had to replace the front page with our own "find a list" functionality. The other main problem was the page where a user can see what lists they subscribe to. That page was also a denial of service if the user had several hundred lists they are subscribed to. And for a genealogy mailing list system, this is common. We have actually ended up creating our own API layer (only accessible on the local machine) and make certain calls to it for the most painful of the issues. One of these days (when we get a moment to breathe) we are going to post some of our changes to the project so that we can ditch our own API and just use the internal REST API. To be fair, the inefficiencies are not necessarily with mailman or the rest API itself - but with Postorius making hundreds of calls to load a single page. Though if the API supported loading multiple lists at once instead of having to load them serially, that might help as well. So while we have not seen any timeout issues on the call to mass subscribe users, we HAVE found several other calls that are effectively a denial of service and have gotten around them ourselves, with plans to contribute to the project in the near future. -Darren On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 8:47 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > On 04/24/2018 12:36 AM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 23, 2018, at 10:41 PM, Jonas Felber wrote: > > >> We also have a problem with sending out emails to "large" (>50) groups, > >> as they seem to not getting sent out at all. Do you have any idea what > >> the problem here could be? > > > > Which MTA are you using? What do you see in mailman's logs and MTA's > logs? > > > > I haven't seen this kind of problem before with Mailman 3. This very > list is hosted using Mailman 3 and I believe has more than 50 subscribers. > > > Nor have I seen this issue. This list currently has 158 non-digest > members. There are several @python.org Mailman 3 lists with over 100 > non-digest members including the active yt-users(a)python.org list with > 301 members, and I have gotten no reports of an issue like this. > > Also, there are over 600 lists at <https://lists.fedoraproject.org/>, > and I don't think this is an issue there either. > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ >

7 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Mailman installation results in KeyError: 'env_py'

by Marvin Gülker

Hi, I'm trying to install Mailman 3 on Debian 9. However, it doesn't let me do. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ $ virtualenv -p python3 env [...] $ . ./env/bin/activate $ pip install mailman [...] Successfully installed [...]mailman-3.1.0[...] $ mailman info Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/bin/mailman", line 11, in <module> sys.exit(main()) File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/bin/mailman.py", line 97, in main initialize(config_path) File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/core/initialize.py", line 185, in initialize initialize_2(propagate_logs=propagate_logs) File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/core/initialize.py", line 156, in initialize_2 config.db = getUtility(IDatabaseFactory, utility_name).create() File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/database/factory.py", line 55, in create SchemaManager(database).setup_database() File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/database/factory.py", line 96, in setup_database alembic.command.stamp(alembic_cfg, 'head') File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/command.py", line 504, in stamp script.run_env() File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/script/base.py", line 425, in run_env util.load_python_file(self.dir, 'env.py') File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/util/pyfiles.py", line 81, in load_python_file module = load_module_py(module_id, path) File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/util/compat.py", line 83, in load_module_py spec.loader.exec_module(module) File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap_external>", line 673, in exec_module File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap>", line 222, in _call_with_frames_removed File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/database/alembic/env.py", line 38, in <module> @public File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/public/public.py", line 15, in public else sys.modules[thing.__module__].__dict__) KeyError: 'env_py' ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I'm not a Python developer, I usually use Ruby for anything web-related, thus I can't make anything of this. Since the error message conveys exactly no information that I could use to find the problem and Google provides no mailman-specific information on it, I don't know what to do now. Any hint is appreciated. Python version, if of any use: $ python --version Python 3.5.3 Greetings Marvin -- Blog: https://www.guelkerdev.de PGP/GPG ID: F1D8799FBCC8BC4F

8 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Enforcing SSO and subscription options

by Christian Schneider

Hello, did you manage to disable the local registration (with django accounts)? I am trying to get rid of these locally registered accounts as well. Background: I only want authorized accounts (provided by our SSO) to be owners or moderators with the ability to manage lists... So, if I block all other (local django accounts) a list-owner might be able to enter an account with an external e-mail address as another owner, but the external account will not able to sign in via web ui...and to manage the list! (A list member can be any (external) user...I only care about moderators/admins and moderators) Questions: Is this a viable approach, or do I make a conceptual mistake here? Is there another way to prevent non (sso-)authorized from becoming an owner? Remark: I followed your way in this thread and made copies of various template files in a seperate location. (I run a venv installation on Ubuntu) My central configuration files are under /etc/mailman3 (mailman.cfg, mailman-hyperkitty.cfg, settings.py and uwsgi.ini) I set the following options in settings.py: TEMPLATES[0]['DIRS'].append('/etc/mailman3/templates') SOCIALACCOUNT_ONLY = True ACCOUNT_EMAIL_VERIFICATION = EmailVerificationMethod.NONE ACCOUNT_ADAPTER = 'django_mailman3.views.user_adapter.DisableSignupAdapter' This got me over the following error: django.urls.exceptions.NoReverseMatch: Reverse for 'account_signup' not found. 'account_signup' is not a valid view function or pattern name But a new error occured: django.urls.exceptions.NoReverseMatch: Reverse for 'account_reset_password' not found. 'account_reset_password' is not a valid view function or pattern name. When I scan the installation directory for this ("account_reset_password") I find it in several places, mostly non template files... So there seems no way to get rid of this error without modifying code... This is nothing one should do - it makes the whole software and its updates unmanageable... So it seems to be a kind of a dead end... Is there any way to get approach (only sso-authorized owners/admins/moderators) working? Kind regards Christian P.S. Sorry for hijacking this thread, but it seems the right place for my questions... :-)

7 months, 2 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: One-click unsubscribe?

by Stephen Daniel

As normal civilians go, I know a lot about email. As mailman admins go, I know very little. I manage a set of < 10 small email lists, mostly used by residents in an over-55 community. The biggest list has about 150 subscribers. Many of whom use gmail. Anything I can do to drive up the reliability of such email will be greatly appreciated. In particular, I think it would help to implement "one-click unsubscribe". Is that something mailman3 will be doing? Thanks! On Tue, Feb 4, 2025 at 11:24 PM Jered Floyd <jered(a)convivian.com> wrote: > > I'm having a lot of problems with GMail delivery due to lack of "one-click > unsubscribe" -- however that is quantified, which is not clear. > > In particular, there is an issue with the fact that Google ignores dots in > email addresses. So I have many (MANY!) subscribers who try to use the > List-Unsubscribe header target, but because they are subscribed as " > idiotsubscriber(a)gmail.com" rather than "idiot.subscriber(a)gmail.com" > (which they have since changed their sender to) they get a reject that they > are not subscribed. These people are also far too unobservant to read the > footer of every message that reads "You are subscribed as > idiotsubscriber(a)gmail.com". > > Is there any way to provide personalized List-Unsubscribe header links, or > have Mailman ignore dots in gmail.com addresses... or... anything? I'm > finding reported spam percentages in the Google Postmaster Dashboard > exceeding 0.1%, which causes massive delivery blocking to GMail-based > subscribers. > > While I would gladly ban everyone who uses gmail, that sadly accounts for > about half of the Internet today and would be incredibly unproductive. > > Thanks, > --Jered > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > Archived at: > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… > > This message sent to swd(a)pobox.com >

3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Adding user - Error 409 Subscription request already pending

by Mark Sapiro

On 4/19/19 6:33 PM, kevin(a)coastalaska.org wrote: > We have a couple of people trying to subscribe to our list but receive an error similar to: > {"title": "409 Conflict", "description": "Subscription request already pending"} > > If I try to Mass Subscribe them in Postorius I get this error: > HTTP Error 409: b'{"title": "409 Conflict", "description": "Subscription request already pending"}' > > In Postorius I don't see them hung up in Subscription requests. Postorius since 1.2.3 does not show subscription requests waiting user confirmation, only those waiting moderator approval. Thus, if the list's subscription policy is confirm or confirm then moderate, the subscribing user will be sent an email requesting confirmation. If the user hasn't answered that email, the request is pending user confirmation, and since 1.2.3, you won't see it in Postorius. [Update: this is fixed in 1.2.4] > What to do? 1) have the user find the confirmation request email and confirm, or 2) wait for the request to expire (default 3 days) 3) using mailman shell or the REST api or direct interaction with the database, find the token and confirm it. A shell example is ``` mailman shell -l your.list.id Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell The variable 'm' is the your.list.id mailing list >>> util = getUtility(IPendings) >>> list(util.find(mlist=m,pend_type='subscription')) ``` This returns a list of items like ('hex_token'), {'token_owner': 'subscriber', 'email': 'user(a)example.com', 'display_name': 'Jane User', 'when': '2019-04-09T01:26:08', 'type': 'subscription', 'list_id': 'your.list.id'}) You then do ``` >>> util.confirm('hex_token') ``` Note that https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/issues/314 which was responsible for removing the subs waiting user confirmation from the Postorius listing suggested "there could be a different place to see the ones pending user approval, so that a moderator can look and/or delete those.", but that hasn't been done. [Update: this is fixed in 1.2.4] -- Mark Sapiro mark(a)msapiro.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

6 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mixing Mailman 3 with AWS SES

by Ralph Weber

To close the loop on this topic... Comments received directly from one of the people who developed the AWS Marketplace kits for Mailman 3 and Mailman 4 have definitively established that AWS Mailman is *not* intended to interact with AWS SES when receiving email messages. AWS Mailman is designed to receive its email messages via Postfix. With many thanks to all those on this list who corroborated "Mailman and SES don't mix" mantra here, we are taking the advice received from so many sources and ending efforts to do the impossible. All the best, .Ralph On 3/20/2021 8:23 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Ralph Weber writes: > > > I am moving the website www.t10.org from a private/corporate VM to > > AWS EC2s. > > > > For many years, t10.org has had very happy results with using > > Mailman 2 for its email reflector, and I have no real concerns > > about moving to Mailman 3. My bugbear is the fact that I need the > > following mixed bag of incoming email addresses to work in concert > > with each other to receive and handle emails. > > > > > t10(a)t10.org (Primary Mailman Reflector) > > > chair(a)t10.org (Mailman Reflector to direct messages to the T10 > > > chair and his designates) > > * docs(a)t10.org (document posting mechanics - serviced by a small > > mountain of home-grown code code > > * bbs(a)t10.org (other publicly accessible services - serviced by > > code that recalls the days when everything as done on a Bulletin > > Board System, BBS) > > This isn't a Mailman question, to be frank. As Abhilash points out, > Mailman doesn't care about other mailboxes served by its host (unless > they conflict with list names or adinistrative addresses derived from > list names, which evidently yours do not). It's a question about the > mail service at AWS. I've not seen any documentation in our project > about setting up at AWS; I don't know anybody who has done so. (I > haven't looked for either though.) > > I took a quick look for AWS SES documentation. They don't seem to > have any real documentation online for the general public, only lists > of features. They also seem to be very focused on sending rather than > receiving. Much talk of how much mail you can send, bulk emailing, > statistics on responses, and the like. None about setting up for > incoming mail. > > Probably I could get access to online help if I signed up for a free > account, but that's above my pay grade. > > > My best guess is that the AWS Simple Email Service (SES) needs to > > sit in front of both Mailman and the home-grown code, > > I don't know if AWS provides an alternative Complicated Email Service, > but yes, something like SES is going to have to sit in front of the > various mailboxes. > > Mailman itself has a certain amount of capability to deal with the > main email protocols, but it is definitely not capable of replacing > the main mail server. For security reasons I would definitely advise > against any Mailman 3 presence directly on the Internet. It was > designed on the assumption that it would talk to the Internet via a > standard mail server, Postorius (for administration), and HyperKitty > (for mail archives)[1], and occasionally to admins logging in with shell > accounts. > > > All available evidence read to date > > URLs, please. As I wrote above, Amazon's documentation is at best not > very discoverable. > > > suggests that the default AWS installation > > Whose default installation of Mailman? AWS's? Typical 3rd party > configurations? > > > of Mailman 3 assumes that Mailman 3 is the *only* receiver of > > emails in the configuration. > > That's possible, but it's likely an artifact of the application -- I > would expect that many who host Mailman on AWS do so to isolate > Mailman from other services they provide. So it seems reasonable that > in many such installations Mailman is *the* service for that instance. > > But mail servers are designed to be many inputs, many outputs > services. If SES itself is as restricted as you fear, surely AWS > provides an alternative, more powerful mail service. I can imagine > quite a few restrictions, other than the backing application, on the > SES that Amazon *might* impose. But without access to documentation, > we can't say much. > > > Or... Hercules may have already cleaned the Augean Stables, and > > left behind a AWS Lambda function that can serve as a keystone > > puzzle piece for solving my dilemma. > > Good luck on that. I don't know of any, but that would be a quick > solution for you. I hope somebody here knows more. As evidenced by > Andrew's post, there are folks thinking about it, so maybe somebody's > actually tried -- anybody? Successes? Pitfalls to watch for? > > The other issue Andrew mentions could be important. Since Solar Winds > I'm seeing daily attempts to access my O365 server (nonexistent) from > AWS. Given the size of AWS, I think they probably actually do a good > job of keeping felonious behavior to a minimum[2], but a lot of folks > I know are happy to cut off huge netblocks until somebody they know > actually complains. :-( > > Footnotes: > [1] Or more precisely, some webservice providing those services > mediating between the Internet and Mailman sitting cozily behind a > firewall. > > [2] DigitalOcean, on the other hand, is accumulating blocked /24s, > and even /16s, at my firewall. But that's another story.

4 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Manual setup - permissions

by Abhilash Raj

On Mon, Sep 23, 2019, at 3:02 AM, Tobias Hachmer via Mailman-users wrote: > Hi Mark, > > thanks for your response. > > On 9/23/19 1:29 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > On 9/22/19 2:11 AM, Tobias Hachmer via Mailman-users wrote: > >> > >> Now, running the scheduled tasks (which run from user+group "nginx") for > >> django I ran into permission problems, because the nginx user can't > >> access/write to the needed files in /opt/mailman3/core/... > >> > >> I would appreciate any hints how to run the different peaces of mailman3 > >> with the correct user/groups/permissions. > > > > > > Set up everything as user:group mailman3:mailman3. I.e., > > > > chown -R mailman3:mailman3 /opt/mailman3/web > > > > and set the uwsgi service to drop privileges to user+group "mailman3". > > So simple, now the scheduled tasks are working, but the whole web > service did not work because the web server user nginx can't access and > write to the uwsgi socket anymore /opt/mailman3/web/project/run/uwsgi.sock. > > # chown -R nginx:mailman3 /opt/mailman3/web > > This works for all. But isn't it a security risk that e.g. manage.py and > settings.py is read- and writeable by the webserver? You just need them to be readable, not writable. You could possibly use xattrs to do just grant read privs. You could also configure uwsgi to create a socket somewhere nginx can read it, `/var/run/uwsgi.sock` should be good enough. You can in theory also try https://uwsgi-docs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Systemd.html for systemd setup in which case you don't have to manually create sockets as systemd can do that for you. > > Regards, > Tobias > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > > *Attachments:* > * signature.asc -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

6 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Issues with Mail delivery after Mailman 3 installation

by Chihurumnaya Ibiam

On Mon, Feb 2, 2026 at 4:56 PM Stephen J. Turnbull <steve(a)turnbull.jp> wrote: > Chihurumnaya Ibiam via Mailman-users writes: > > On Sun, Feb 1, 2026 at 7:25?AM Stephen J. Turnbull <steve(a)turnbull.jp> > > wrote: > > > > Is this a separate host (hardware, VM, or container) that handles > > > ONLY mailman lists? > > > Yes, it's a separate host that handles only mailman lists, it > > doesn't handle other incoming mail. > > > > I'll remove dovecot, and report back. > > Good, that will make getting set up easier. > I've removed this, and it does seem like dovecot still runs when mailman hands mail to lmtp, but I don't see any authentication issues, the logs show this; lists postfix/lmtp[1376243]: 458381A894B: to=<mailman(a)lists.sugarlabs.org>, orig_to=<mailman>, relay=localhost[127.0.0.1]:24, delay=0.03, delays=0.02/0/0.01/0, dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (host localhost[127.0.0.1] said: 550 5.1.1 <mailman(a)lists.sugarlabs.org> User doesn't exist: mailman(a)lists.sugarlabs.org (in reply to RCPT TO command)) The user does exist, which is the weird part. > > > I recommend that you NOT have Mailman pass through Dovecot, > > > because it will be confusing to anyone familiar with Mailman > > > operations trying to help you. Normally, Mailman listens on > > > 8024, which is routed directly by the MTA (Postfix, in your > > > case). > > > > I don't see mailman listening on 8024 from my end, the port isn't > > open. > > Hm. Did you start Mailman? > > If Mailman is started, what port is in your mailman.cfg file? (Search > for "lmtp" (without the quotes) in that file, it will say what host > and port Mailman is listening on.) Do not assume you know where that > file is (normally /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg). If you are starting > Mailman via systemd, check the service file for a "-C conffile" option > in the start command. If you are using the 'mailman' utility, cd to > the directory where you normally start Mailman, and use "mailman info" > to find out where the running Mailman thinks the configuration file is. > I'm starting mailman via systemd, and the mailman config was passed through an environment variable - MAILMAN_CONFIG_FILE -. The installation instructions <https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/install.html> don't say anything about mailman listening on a port > > > > Too many things can go wrong. I recommend that you disable all > > > the authentication until you have all mail flows working without > > > authentication, then add authentication as you require for your > > > applications. > > > I'll try this, thank you! > > OK, let us know! > > You mentioned that you wanted Dovecot to do authentication. I don't > know if Mailman can do authentication itself. I think the Python > module can, but I don't know how to set it up. I personally don't > think it's necessary on a dedicated host where Mailman and the MTA can > communicate over the loopback address, but if you do, let me know and > I'll see what we can do. > > I've removed authentication and the only error in the log is the one I shared above, although there are some errors in mailman smtp logs; 1551 Jan 31 12:44:03 2026 (4128778) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> smtp to sugar-devel(a)lists.sugarlabs.org for 1 recips, completed in 0.009501457214355469 seconds 1552 Jan 31 12:44:03 2026 (4128778) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> post to sugar-devel(a)lists.sugarlabs.org from sugar-devel-confirm+edc5e1df6d76fe7955475023efd08101ed2edb17(a)lists.sugarlabs.org, 1707 bytes, 1 failures 1553 Jan 31 12:44:03 2026 (4128778) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> delivery to sarthakkad2005(a)gmail.com failed with code 444, SMTP AUTH extension not supported by server. 1554 Feb 02 06:57:21 2026 (4128778) while connecting to SMTP: 1555 Feb 02 06:59:37 2026 (664714) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> low level smtp error: [Errno 110] Connection timed out 1556 Feb 02 06:59:37 2026 (664714) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> smtp to sugar-devel(a)lists.sugarlabs.org for 1 recips, completed in 130.81689381599426 seconds 1557 Feb 02 06:59:37 2026 (664714) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> post to sugar-devel(a)lists.sugarlabs.org from sugar-devel-confirm+edc5e1df6d76fe7955475023efd08101ed2edb17(a)lists.sugarlabs.org, 1707 bytes, 1 failures 1558 Feb 02 06:59:37 2026 (664714) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> delivery to sarthakkad2005(a)gmail.com failed with code 444, [Errno 110] Connection timed out 1559 Feb 02 07:14:36 2026 (664714) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> low level smtp error: [Errno 110] Connection timed out 1560 Feb 02 07:14:36 2026 (664714) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> smtp to sugar-devel(a)lists.sugarlabs.org for 1 recips, completed in 130.05159902572632 seconds 1561 Feb 02 07:14:36 2026 (664714) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> post to sugar-devel(a)lists.sugarlabs.org from sugar-devel-confirm+edc5e1df6d76fe7955475023efd08101ed2edb17(a)lists.sugarlabs.org, 1707 bytes, 1 failures 1562 Feb 02 07:14:36 2026 (664714) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> delivery to sarthakkad2005(a)gmail.com failed with code 444, [Errno 110] Connection timed out 1563 Feb 02 07:29:37 2026 (664714) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> low level smtp error: [Errno 110] Connection timed out 1564 Feb 02 07:29:37 2026 (664714) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> smtp to sugar-devel(a)lists.sugarlabs.org for 1 recips, completed in 131.08647632598877 seconds 1565 Feb 02 07:29:37 2026 (664714) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> post to sugar-devel(a)lists.sugarlabs.org from sugar-devel-confirm+edc5e1df6d76fe7955475023efd08101ed2edb17(a)lists.sugarlabs.org, 1707 bytes, 1 failures 1566 Feb 02 07:29:37 2026 (664714) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> delivery to sarthakkad2005(a)gmail.com failed with code 444, [Errno 110] Connection timed out 1567 Feb 02 07:44:36 2026 (664714) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> low level smtp error: [Errno 110] Connection timed out 1568 Feb 02 07:44:36 2026 (664714) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> smtp to sugar-devel(a)lists.sugarlabs.org for 1 recips, completed in 130.05518007278442 seconds 1569 Feb 02 07:44:36 2026 (664714) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> post to sugar-devel(a)lists.sugarlabs.org from sugar-devel-confirm+edc5e1df6d76fe7955475023efd08101ed2edb17(a)lists.sugarlabs.org, 1707 bytes, 1 failures 1570 Feb 02 07:44:36 2026 (664714) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> delivery to sarthakkad2005(a)gmail.com failed with code 444, [Errno 110] Connection timed out 1571 Feb 02 07:48:32 2026 (678685) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> low level smtp error: [Errno 110] Connection timed out 1572 Feb 02 07:48:32 2026 (678685) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> smtp to sugar-devel(a)lists.sugarlabs.org for 1 recips, completed in 130.0330526828766 seconds 1573 Feb 02 07:48:32 2026 (678685) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> post to sugar-devel(a)lists.sugarlabs.org from sugar-devel-confirm+edc5e1df6d76fe7955475023efd08101ed2edb17(a)lists.sugarlabs.org, 1707 bytes, 1 failures 1574 Feb 02 07:48:32 2026 (678685) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> delivery to sarthakkad2005(a)gmail.com failed with code 444, [Errno 110] Connection timed out 1575 Feb 02 07:59:31 2026 (683226) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> smtp to sugar-devel(a)lists.sugarlabs.org for 1 recips, completed in 0.05027198791503906 seconds 1576 Feb 02 07:59:31 2026 (683226) <176979064563.3611678.6370323034981829398@lists> post to sugar-devel(a)lists.sugarlabs.org from sugar-devel-confirm+edc5e1df6d76fe7955475023efd08101ed2edb17(a)lists.sugarlabs.org, 1707 bytes 1577 Feb 03 03:10:07 2026 (683226) <177011700641.683263.16748966738137655513(a)localhost.localdomain> smtp to gsoc(a)lists.sugarlabs.org for 1 recips, completed in 0.04062008857727051 seconds 1578 Feb 03 03:10:07 2026 (683226) <177011700641.683263.16748966738137655513(a)localhost.localdomain> post to gsoc(a)lists.sugarlabs.org from gsoc-confirm+423bc3fbc7ece192437c9d571b798025137b3f95(a)lists.sugarlabs.org, 1635 bytes 1579 Feb 03 03:10:19 2026 (683226) <177011701801.683263.13618900516538057849(a)localhost.localdomain> smtp to bugs(a)lists.sugarlabs.org for 1 recips, completed in 0.025012493133544922 seconds 1580 Feb 03 03:10:19 2026 (683226) <177011701801.683263.13618900516538057849(a)localhost.localdomain> post to bugs(a)lists.sugarlabs.org from bugs-confirm+f896a698312c25195fa072104d42dd324badddbf(a)lists.sugarlabs.org, 1652 bytes 1581 Feb 03 23:41:25 2026 (683226) <177019088335.683263.8347259112808463258(a)localhost.localdomain> smtp to gsoc(a)lists.sugarlabs.org for 1 recips, completed in 0.037694454193115234 seconds 1582 Feb 03 23:41:25 2026 (683226) <177019088335.683263.8347259112808463258(a)localhost.localdomain> post to gsoc(a)lists.sugarlabs.org from gsoc-confirm+b6aea46ef8d420e6ca3047abe1f44230725a6c5d(a)lists.sugarlabs.org, 1630 bytes I don't know why the connection timed out when it did, I'll assume it was an issue with smtp, but that's about the only time it happened. I also commented out the smtp_user and smtp_pass details from mailman.cfg because of the error about the user not existing, just to see if I'll get a different error but I still get the same error, I've uncommented it out though. I'm using port 25 for smtp, I wasn't sure I'll need submission because I'd done that earlier and it didn't seem to change anything, does mailman need submission? > -- > GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) > Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ > Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan > -- Ibiam Chihurumnaya ibiamchihurumnaya(a)gmail.com

1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Postorius Suggestion: Give owner a view of all users of all owned lists

by Andreas Vetter

[Forgot reply to list] ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Thank you Stephen for your questions. I have to admit that I thought about a quick and dirty solution, but you are right, it would not be optimal. Lets see: Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Andreas Vetter writes: > > it would be real great if owners that own several lists, but are > > not superusers, can see all users of all *their* lists and manage > > them. A down-"selected" version of the superusers view. > > > > Would that be possible? > > Possible, yes. I don't know how to do it well enough to add to our > distribution. > > Note that owners can't actually manage users -- that really does need > to be a superuser. Owners can manage subscriptions to the lists they > own. Agreed, "manage subscriptions" is what owners would need. A list of all addresses subscribed to all lists owned by the logged in person. > So first we'd want to create a new "Subscriptions" item for the > top menu; the "Users" item isn't appropriate. I'm not sure who that > item should be visible to. Most likely only owners, because > individuals already have ways to see all their subscriptions, and it's > not obvious they would want the same presentation as your superowners. Owner is the primary target group for that. But since it should be a tool for managing subscriptions in a simple way, it might also be of interest for superusers. For me as a superuser it would make life easier. > Then you'd iterate over the logged-in owner's lists and collect all of > the subscriptions. I guess you'd want them to be organized by address > rather than by list. By User is out, I think -- owners can't normally > see Users, and I'm unhappy abou the privacy implications of being able > to correlate nole(a)alset.com with head(a)dodgy.gov in general, although I > realize it's not a problem in your setting. Ah, I see the problem and agree: So, the presentation should have a sorted and searchable list of addresses and a Button next to each address, maybe labeled "Subscriptions". > Without a more complete specification of what your users need, and the > presentation they'd want to see, I personally am unwilling to go > farther than those comments. Maybe one of the other devs feels > differently. The presentation given when above "Subscriptions" Button is clicked should contain the address as kind of Headline. Then a table of all lists of the logged in owner and next to each mailing list an indication, if the address is subscribed or not and a Button to toggle subscription/unsubscription. May be a single Toggle Button or (maybe better) two buttons, a suscribe and a unsubscribe button, where one is greyed out.b In our case Delivery Status and Delivery Mode are not interesting, but others might appreciate it. In addition my owners would like to have a "unsubscribe from all my lists" button. And a "subscribe to all my lists" button. This might be visually nicer, when having the two-button approach above. In our case we would want to (un-)subscribe the address in a "do it, don't ask anyone" fashion, but maybe this is not a good idea in general. What do you think? > Also, "domain owner" is way under-implemented currently. For the > hierarchical situation you outline, all the problems go away for > domain owners. Of course then you'd need to split out lists by > domain, but to me that's a small cost to preserve sanity in the > structure. Yes, I agree, but policy here is to get rid of subdomains, and that falls on our feet now. -- Mit freundlichen Gruessen, Andreas Vetter

11 months, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Mm3 - new adventure

by Mark Sapiro

On 03/14/2017 09:14 AM, SP2L wrote: > > Lately started adventurous journey with Mailman3 > which is way, way different already from the beginning. > > Used Mailman bundler to install GNU Mailman, Postorius and HyperKitty > testing instance in virtual environment, mainly relaying on belows recipe: > > https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-bundler/ mailman-bundler is out of date and deprecated. You might find <https://wiki.list.org/x/17891998> of interest. > Present status. > > Above trio and MySQLServer are "talking" to each other > but because there isproper database on MySQLServer > I am facing strange and unexpected issues, Hi! > > Executing last two commands: > > (venv)$ ./bin/mailman start > (venv)$ ./bin/mailman-web-django-admin runserver 0.0.0.0:8000 & > > I see Postorius and HyperKitty up & runningbut... > > Belowvery condensed messages from the console: > > > /HyperKitty/ > > DEBUG = False > > [12/Mar/2017 18:59:43] "GET /archives/ HTTP/1.1" 200 8002 > WARNING Not Found: > /static/hyperkitty/libs/jquery/smoothness/jquery-ui-1.10.3.custom.min.css ... Have you run the script that bundler installs as bin/mailman-post-update? > /mailman3/ > > DEBUG = False > > Server Error (500) > > > DEBUG = True > > HTTP Error 500: A server error occurred. Please contact the administrator. > > Exception Location: > /var/lib/mailman3/mailman-bundler/eggs/mailmanclient-1.0.1-py2.7.egg/mailmanclient/_client.py > in call, line 109 > > Then VERY, verylong list... Without knowing what the exception was and at least the start of the traceback, it's hard to say what this might be. > By means of PhpMyAdmin I created manually mailman3 database > and few tables (looking at 0001_initial.py) , but it is not working O.K. > This handmade table is not doing it's job. You shouldn't need to do this. If you have the proper settings and credentials in the DATABASES setting in mailman-web/settings_local.py and the [database] section in deployment/mailman.cfg, the tables should be created for you. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

8 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Pd CRON mailman gatenews

by Pierre Malard

Hello, That’s going again! If I understood your advice correctly, if we do not have lists for which the gateway to the mail is set to yes, we can comment on the CRON "gatenew". This is what I will do > Le 17 mars 2023 à 07:50, Pierre Malard via Mailman-users <mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> a écrit : > > Hi Mark, > > Thanks for your answer and your lead > >> Le 16 mars 2023 à 18:34, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> a écrit : >> >> On 3/15/23 23:31, Pierre Malard via Mailman-users wrote: >> >>> File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/flufl/lock/_lockfile.py", line 502, in _read >>> with open(self._lockfile) as fp: >>> PermissionError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman3/locks/dbcreate.lck' >>> —————————————————————————————————————————————————— >>> CRON content: >>> —————————————————————————————————————————————————— >> ... >>> # Every 15 minutes, gate messages from usenet to those lists which have the gateway configured >>> */15 * * * * list if [ -x /usr/bin/mailman ]; then /usr/bin/mailman gatenews; fi >> >> Do you have any list's for which Gateway to mail is set to yes or for which there is a Linked Newsgroup?. If not, running gatenews is superfluous. > > No, we don’t have > >> >>> I thought, given the last line, a problem of rights. It is not the case ! The directory and the files contained in /var/lib/mailman3/locks belong to the user "list". >>> When I run "/usr/bin/mailman gatenews" by hand everything is correct. >> >> Can you do `sudo -u list cat /var/lib/mailman3/locks/dbcreate.lck`. If that succeeds, this may be a SELinux or other security manager issue. > > Their is no file with this name! > listesman:~# ls -ld /var/lib/mailman3/locks/dbcreate.lck > ls: impossible d'accéder à '/var/lib/mailman3/locks/dbcreate.lck': Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type > >> >> >>> The questions I have are these: >>> We have 8000 files "dbcreate.lck..." in the directory "/var/lib/mailman3/locks". >>> What are they for? >>> Can we delete them? >> >> They are probably all orphaned lock files due the the gatenews failure. To be certain that none are current you could stop Mailman core. Then with Mailman core stopped, any files in /var/lib/mailman3/locks are orphaned and should be removed. > > Ok, is done. > > We will see today if it continues > >> >>> We have 2 files "master.lck..." dated from the day after tomorrow ! >>> What is this date? >>> Aren't these files the problem? >> >> >> Those files are normal. They are the master lock that prevents Mailman core from being started when it's already running. The future date is the way flufl.lock handles lock lifetimes. Locks when set have a lifetime, after which they can be broken. This is implemented in flufl.lock by setting the file's date that far into the future. > > Ok, that’s smart :-) > >> >> -- >> Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net <mailto:mark@msapiro.net>> The highway is for gamblers, >> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org <mailto:mailman-users@mailman3.org> >> To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org <mailto:mailman-users-leave@mailman3.org> >> https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ <https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/> >> Archived at: https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… <https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message…> >> >> This message sent to plm(a)teledetection.fr <mailto:plm@teledetection.fr> > > -- > Pierre Malard > Responsable architectures système CDS DINAMIS/THEIA Montpellier > IRD - UMR Espace-Dev - UAR CPST - IR Data-Terra > Maison de la Télédétection > 500 rue Jean-François Breton > 34093 Montpellier Cx 5 > France > > « Je n'ai jamais séparé la République des idées de justice sociale, > sans laquelle elle n'est qu'un mot » > Jean Jaures - 1887 > |\ _,,,---,,_ > /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ > |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) πr > > perl -e '$_=q#: 3|\ 5_,3-3,2_: 3/,`.'"'"'`'"'"' 5-. ;-;;,_: |,A- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'"'"'-'"'"': '"'"'-3'"'"'2(_/--'"'"' `-'"'"'\_): 24πr::#;y#:#\n#;s#(\D)(\d+)#$1x$2#ge;print' > - --> Ce message n’engage que son auteur <-- > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org <mailto:mailman-users@mailman3.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org <mailto:mailman-users-leave@mailman3.org> > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ <https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/> > Archived at: https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… <https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message…> > > This message sent to plm(a)teledetection.fr <mailto:plm@teledetection.fr> -- Pierre Malard Responsable architectures système CDS DINAMIS/THEIA Montpellier IRD - UMR Espace-Dev - UAR CPST - IR Data-Terra Maison de la Télédétection 500 rue Jean-François Breton 34093 Montpellier Cx 5 France « La façon de donner vaut mieux que ce que l'on donne » Pierre Corneille (1606-1684) - Le menteur |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) πr perl -e '$_=q#: 3|\ 5_,3-3,2_: 3/,`.'"'"'`'"'"' 5-. ;-;;,_: |,A- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'"'"'-'"'"': '"'"'-3'"'"'2(_/--'"'"' `-'"'"'\_): 24πr::#;y#:#\n#;s#(\D)(\d+)#$1x$2#ge;print' - --> Ce message n’engage que son auteur <-- ___________________________________________ Mailman's content filtering has removed the following MIME parts from this message. Replaced multipart/alternative part with first alternative.

2 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: hyperkitty_import Unicode Errors

by Stephen J Turnbull

On 2023-05-07 07:39 Mark Sapiro writes: > On 5/6/23 11:27, Dave Hall via Mailman-users wrote: >> django.db.utils.OperationalError: (1366, "Incorrect string value: >> '\\xE1\\x90\\xA7\\x0A\\x0AO...' for column >> `mailman3web`.`hyperkitty_email`.`content` at row 1") >> >> Is there a known cause for this? Almost always nonconforming user clients. You write "frequently", but I'm guessing it's maybe 1% or 2% of all the messages, right? I suspect it's a particular author or institution using such a client. >> Is it fixed in some release more recent than 0+20180916? This is almost surely not something we can fix. Based on the error, it's in third party code (Django) that we import. It's possible we could provide a more explanatory message, but the only thing we can sensibly do is hold the message for an admin to edit it by hand. As long as the text in question and the Content-Type header aren't too sensitive, we can help with identifying charset (often UTF-8 as Mark suggests but why someone would be encoding FINAL MIDDLE DOT is a mystery to me). > I'm not sure what's going on here. My first thought is the database is > MySQL or MariaDB and this is a 4-byte UTF-8 encoding and the database > column charset definition is utf8 and not utf8mb4, but > '\\xE1\\x90\\xA7\\x0A\\x0A' is the 3-byte UTF-8 encoding for CANADIAN > SYLLABICS FINAL MIDDLE DOT ('\\xE1\\x90\\xA7') followed by two > newlines. so I'm not sure what the issue is. I'm guessing home-made client, possibly Asian or a spammer, which provides no content-type header. Even today I see raw 8-bit encoded text without an encoding spec from legitimate Japanese and Chinese sources, and of course with spammers all bets are off -- they might even do it deliberately to crash filters. -- University of Tsukuba　　　　　　　　　　　　 Faculty of Policy and Planning Sciences Tennodai 1-1-1, Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN tel/fax: +81-29-853-5091 turnbull(a)sk.tsukuba.ac.jp 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　https://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/

2 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Installing mailman 3

by Rafael Mora

Hi Abhilash, I'm trying to use Mailman 3 on my centos 7 virtual machine. Those steps I wrote are from websites, the last console instructions are mine. I don't use ubuntu, I use centos 7. When I run the start command I get this: (venv3) [root@localhost mailman]# mailman start > Starting Mailman's master runner > /root/dev/mailman/venv3/bin/python: can't open file '/sbin/master': > [Errno > 2] No such file or directory What can I do? Thank you El mar., 11 jul. 2017 a las 12:31, Abhilash Raj (<raj.abhilash1(a)gmail.com>) escribió: > Hi Rafael, > > On Tue, Jul 11, 2017, at 07:32 AM, Rafael Mora wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I want to install mailman 3 in a centos 7 virtual machine. I'm following > > these steps and I cannot make it work: > > I am wondering if you are interested to setup a development environment > or use Mailman 3? > These instructions below are for working on Mailman, if you just need to > deploy, instructions here[1] would be the best. > > > 1. `cd ~` > > 2. `git clone https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman.git` > <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman.git> > > 3. `cd mailman` > > 4. `virtualenv -p python3 venv` > > 5. `source venv/bin/activate` > > 6. `python setup.py develop` > > 7. I am pretty sure this setup command will place a configuration file > > into > > `~/mailman/var/etc/mailman.cfg`. Edit this file. > > > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/config/docs/config.html > > 8. `mailman info` can confirm which configuration file is in use > > 9. `mailman start` will start up Mailman 3 Core. This is what the parent > > background process command looks like in `ps -ef`: > > `/home/ubuntu/mailman/venv/bin/python > > /home/ubuntu/mailman/venv/bin/master > > -C /home/ubuntu/mailman/var/etc/mailman.cfg` > > Looks like you are working as the ubuntu user here and the the > virtualenv that you created exists at `/home/ubuntu/mailman/venv`. > > > I also tried the steps on the website > > https://wiki.list.org/DEV/SetupDevEnvironment > > but it doesn't work either > > > > What do you suggest? > > > > This is what I get from console: > > > > > > [root@localhost ~]# cd dev/ > > > > [root@localhost dev]# cd mailman/ > > > > [root@localhost mailman]# source venv3/bin/activate > > Why do you try to user a different venv as a root user here? If you'd > just try: > > $ source /home/ubuntu/mailman/venv/bin/activate > > and then try > > $ mailman start > > things would work! > > However, this would be a different instance of mailman and would create > the new configuration (and the entire var directory) at the directory > you run this command from. If you want to inhibit this, you can either > use the -C flag, or set MAILMAN_CONFIG_FILE environment variable to > point to your one single configuration file. > > > > > (venv3) [root@localhost mailman]# cd mailman/ > > > > (venv3) [root@localhost mailman]# ls > > conf.py COPYING data README.rst src > > unittest.cfg > > contrib coverage.ini MANIFEST.in setup.cfg template.py > > copybump.py cron port_me setup.py tox.ini > > > > (venv3) [root@localhost mailman]# cd .. > > > > (venv3) [root@localhost mailman]# mailman start > > Starting Mailman's master runner > > /root/dev/mailman/venv3/bin/python: can't open file '/sbin/master': > > [Errno > > 2] No such file or directory > > > > (venv3) [root@localhost mailman]# > > > > Thank you > > -- > > Hope that helps! > > [1]: http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/prodsetup.html > > -- > thanks, > Abhilash Raj > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- Atentamente / Best Regards Ing. Rafael Mora

8 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: If I manually add email addresses to a list and then delete them, how do i permanent delete them from Users?

by Mark Sapiro

On 4/25/23 2:14 PM, Andrew Hodgson wrote: > Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> The script at https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/clean_users.py has been updated. As before, it has settings to control whether Django users are deleted if there is a corresponding Mailman user with no memberships or only if there is no corresponding Mailman user, and whether or not Mailman users with no >memberships are deleted. > > Thanks, I ran this script and it did delete a load of Mailman users, I got output similar to this: > <User "" (47600399411039288509336192576257642185) at 0x7fb17a6a35e0> deleted from Mailman > > Why aren't we seeing the actual address here? That was a choice I made. you could change ``` with transaction(): user_manager.delete_user(mm_user) print(f'{mm_user} deleted from Mailman') ``` to ``` with transaction(): try: email = user.preferred_address.email except AttributeError: email = 'no_preferred_address' user_manager.delete_user(mm_user) print(f'{email} deleted from Mailman') ``` to display the email address from the user's preferred_address if the user has one. All users should have one, but I've seen cases where there isn't one. It could also be ``` email = user.addresses[0].email ``` which might be better. In the above case, the empty string, "", is the user's display_name which in this case is empty, and the number in parentheses is the UUID of the user expressed as a decimal integer which isn't really useful. My thought was the display_name was as useful as anything, but obviously not if it's empty. I actually started with the preferred_address.email code above, but in testing, I got the 'no_preferred_address' result with the one deleted user so I, perhaps erroneously, went with the representation of the user. I'll probably update the script again. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: installing mailman3 core

by Mark Sapiro

On 5/29/20 7:41 AM, Ralf Wiegand wrote: > Mark - What is the difference between to two install methods? What are > my pros and cons? Installing from the GitLab repository will get the latest development version, however, you can also install from this repository via pip and pick a tag or commit to install <https://pip.pypa.io/en/stable/reference/pip_install/#git> `pip install mailman3` will install the latest released version. As of this writing, that's 3.3.1, so ``` pip install mailman3 ``` and ``` pip install git+https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman@3.3.1 ``` should give the same result although the former installs from PyPI and the latter from GitLab. The advantage to installing the latest version from GitLab is you get features and fixes that haven't been released yet. The disadvantage is you might get new bugs, although the servers that support this list and all the Mailman 3 @python.org lists are generally running the latest GitLab versions, so any serious issues will be quickly found and fixed. > I have been using this: > >>>>> > > |# Note: if we are using a dedicated postgresql database server, all > postgresql changes need to be done on the actual postgresql server.| > |>>>| > |sudo yum install postgresql-server postgresql-contrib| > |sudo postgresql-setup initdb| > |sudo systemctl start postgresql| > |sudo systemctl enable postgresql| > |sudo -u postgres psql -c ||"SELECT version();"| > |sudo useradd -c ||"Mailman User"| |-s /bin/bash -m mailman| > |sudo -u postgres create role mailman;| > |sudo -u postgres createdb -O $USER mailman| > |sudo -u postgres psql -c ||"grant all privileges on database mailman to > mailman;"| > |sudo -u postgres psql -c ||"ALTER ROLE mailman WITH PASSWORD > 'secret123';"| > |sudo -u postgres psql -c ||"ALTER ROLE "||mailman||" WITH LOGIN;"| > |sudo echo ||"listen_addresses = '*' "| |>> > /var/lib/pgsql/10/data/postgresql.conf| > |sudo echo ||"# The user mailman will be able to access all databases > from a trusted location (any) without a password"| |>> > /var/lib/pgsql/data/pg_hba.conf| > |sudo echo ||"host all mailman 0.0.0.0/0 > trust"| |>> /var/lib/pgsql/data/pg_hba.conf| > |sudo systemctl restart postgresql| > |sudo ss -nlt | grep 5432| > |<<<| > |sudo yum install python36* --skip-broken -y| > |# check make sure you have both versions| > |sudo python --version| > |Python 2.7.5| > |sudo python3 --version| > |Python 3.6.8| > |sudo pip3 install psycopg2-binary| > |sudo chown mailman.mailman /opt/mailman| > |sudo chmod 755 /opt/mailman| > |# NOTE: The first initial mailman3 core setup has to be done manually.| > |# This is a important step to ensure the user "mailman" will run the > actual mailman3 application and not root.| > |# switch to user mailman| > |mailman# cd /opt/mailman| > |mailman# git clone https:||//gitlab.com/mailman/mailman.git| This gets the head of the GitLab master branch. > |mailman# cat <<EOT >> /opt/mailman/mailman/src/mailman/config/mailman.cfg| > |[devmode]| > |enabled: yes| > |recipient: root@localhost| > |[webservice]| > |hostname: localhost| > |port: 8001| > |show_tracebacks: yes| > |use_https: yes| > |[mta]| > |incoming: mailman.mta.postfix.LMTP| > |outgoing: mailman.mta.deliver.deliver| > |lmtp_host: localhost| > |lmtp_port: 8024| > |smtp_host: localhost| > |smtp_port: 25| > |[database]| > |class||: mailman.database.postgresql.PostgreSQLDatabase| > |url: postgres:||//mailman:secret123@<IP-ADDRESS or FQDN>/mailman| > |EOT| > |mailman# python3.6 -m venv venv-3.6| > |>>| > |mailman# source venv-3.6/bin/activate| > |(venv-3.6) [mailman@empire mailman]$ cd mailman| > |(venv-3.6) [mailman@empire mailman]$ python setup.py develop| > |(venv-3.6) [mailman@empire mailman]$ mailman info| > |<<| > | > | > | > | > |So I was told I don't have to do this, I can just simple do (rhel7) > | > |yum install pyhton3| > |pip install mailman| This gets the latest release from PyPI Other than that, you still have to do the configuration and install some dependencies as in the first method. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: users leaking across virtual hosts

by Mark Sapiro

On 3/25/22 12:49, Stanisław Findeisen via Mailman-users wrote: > Hi > > We are hosting several virtual hosts (mail host : web host is a 1:1 mapping with identical names), works fine, but it looks user accounts are somehow global, i.e. registering a new user in a new virtual host doesn't work if the user name or e-mail address are already in use in another virtual host. This happens on the Hyperkitty sign-up page: /accounts/signup/ , with the errors being "A user is already registered with this e-mail address." and "A user with that username already exists.". I am assuming this is a well-known limitation, which would require a serious internal redesign to fix; correct? These user registrations and logins are Django things so yes, they are global within the Django instance. > I was able to successfully login in the browser to a vhost using my user credentials from the original vhost (the one where the account was created) (the password was not auto-filled, of course, because of a different domain name). But how safe is this? How about subscribing to lists, posting etc.? Is this going to mess things up somehow? I don't think it's a problem. The user is a Django user for the web UI. The fact that there is or isn't a Django user with a particular email address has nothing to do with whether that address can post to a list. The user can subscribe to lists or not. The user can manage her subscriptions for lists to which she is subscribed and can subscribe to lists or not as controlled by list settings. Basically, registering as a user allows you to authenticate as that user for the web UI only. If you wanted to separate these user registrations by vhost, you'd need to run separate Django instances for each vhost, but I don't see a need to do that. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: integrating mm3 with postfix / lmtp

by Mark Sapiro

On 10/25/2017 05:41 PM, Fabian A. Santiago wrote: > > No to the domains part and I think virtual alias maps is needed: > > mail postfix/trivial-rewrite[19445]: warning: do not list domain xxx in BOTH virtual_mailbox_domains and relay_domains > Oct 25 20:39:19 mail postfix/trivial-rewrite[19445]: warning: do not list domain xxx in BOTH virtual_mailbox_domains and relay_domains > Oct 25 20:39:19 mail postfix/submission/smtpd[19441]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from pool-108-53-239-102.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net[108.53.239.102]: 550 5.1.1 <test123@xxx>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table; from=<fsantiago@xxx> to=<test123@xxx> proto=ESMTP helo=<[10.0.0.29]> (above slightly sanitized for return to the list) The issue here is your list domain cannot be a virtual_mailbox_domain or a virtual_alias_domain. I have the same issue on mail.python.org where we have both Mailman 2 and Mailman 3 lists @python.org. and python.org is a virtual_alias_domain. I have a group of MRs for a branch that implements "alias_domains" to deal with this. Basically it works by creating another (virtual_alias_maps) postfix_vmap mapping to map list addresses @python.org to addresses @x.python.org. Then the postfix_domains and postfix_lmtp maps have the x.python.org domain and there is a patch to mailman/runners/lmtp.py to map the x.python.org domain back to python.org. The various MRs are <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/merge_requests/202> for the core, <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailmanclient/merge_requests/18> for the REST bindings used by Postorius and <https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/merge_requests/186> to be able to set an alias_domain via Postorius. That's not all implemented at mail.python.org. What's there is the basic Postfix config, a bash script the generate the new mappings from the old and a simple patch to mailman/runners/lmtp.py. So, the bottom line is it can be done and it's in process, but it won't really be supported until Mailman 3.2. In the mean time, you just need to have a separate domain for your lists that isn't a virtual_*_domain. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

8 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Splitting hosts: mta&core vs postorius

by Mark Sapiro

On 6/22/20 12:21 PM, Ruth Ivimey-Cook wrote: > > The localhost address is coming in via the hosts file, which is a > relatively standard practice IMO. I could change it, but then perhaps > other things would not work. I would prefer to be able to specify what I > need. There are also things like systemd-resolvd which will do the > localhost-substitution for you even if /etc/hosts doesn't. I have done further testing. See my comment at <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/735#note_366074014>. You need to set hostname: in mailman.cfg to the actual external IP address of the Mailman host machine or to a name which resolves to that IP both internally and externally, and also set that host name/IP in the MAILMAN_REST_API_URL setting on the Postorius machine. > I did try with the gunicorn patch Mark mentioned (host = "0.0.0.0") and > changing the cfg file hostname back to the full name of the host, and > that now works!! -- in that the problem I showed earlier is gone. Remove that patch and do the above. > However I then get another issue. From the mailman.log file I now see in > the last few lines. For clarity I've numbered them like this "{1}": > > {1} [22/Jun/2020:00:58:24 +0000] "GET /3.1/domains HTTP/1.1" 200 320 "-" > "GNU Mailman REST client v3.3.1" > {2} [22/Jun/2020:00:58:24 +0000] "GET /3.1/domains/ch-bc.org.uk > HTTP/1.1" 200 215 "-" "GNU Mailman REST client v3.3.1" > {3} [22/Jun/2020:00:58:24 +0000] "GET > /3.1/domains/greyarea-web1.cam.ivimey.org/lists?advertised=true&count=0&page=1 > HTTP/1.1" 404 26 "-" "GNU Mailman REST client v3.3.1" > > At this point the browser screen reports "Something went wrong" and the > message "HTTP Error 404: {"title": "404 Not Found"}" Make the above changes and see if that solves this. If not, let us know and we'll try to help. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Pd CRON mailman gatenews

by Mark Sapiro

On 3/15/23 23:31, Pierre Malard via Mailman-users wrote: > File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/flufl/lock/_lockfile.py", line 502, in _read > with open(self._lockfile) as fp: > PermissionError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman3/locks/dbcreate.lck' > —————————————————————————————————————————————————— > > CRON content: > —————————————————————————————————————————————————— ... > # Every 15 minutes, gate messages from usenet to those lists which have the gateway configured > */15 * * * * list if [ -x /usr/bin/mailman ]; then /usr/bin/mailman gatenews; fi Do you have any list's for which Gateway to mail is set to yes or for which there is a Linked Newsgroup?. If not, running gatenews is superfluous. > I thought, given the last line, a problem of rights. It is not the case ! The directory and the files contained in /var/lib/mailman3/locks belong to the user "list". > When I run "/usr/bin/mailman gatenews" by hand everything is correct. Can you do `sudo -u list cat /var/lib/mailman3/locks/dbcreate.lck`. If that succeeds, this may be a SELinux or other security manager issue. > The questions I have are these: > We have 8000 files "dbcreate.lck..." in the directory "/var/lib/mailman3/locks". > What are they for? > Can we delete them? They are probably all orphaned lock files due the the gatenews failure. To be certain that none are current you could stop Mailman core. Then with Mailman core stopped, any files in /var/lib/mailman3/locks are orphaned and should be removed. > We have 2 files "master.lck..." dated from the day after tomorrow ! > What is this date? > Aren't these files the problem? Those files are normal. They are the master lock that prevents Mailman core from being started when it's already running. The future date is the way flufl.lock handles lock lifetimes. Locks when set have a lifetime, after which they can be broken. This is implemented in flufl.lock by setting the file's date that far into the future. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Postorius permissions granularity

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Liam Reilly writes: > Is there a way to have more granular permissions in Postorius than > either User or Superuser? Not without additional code. It couldn't be a plugin. It would have to be a fork of the main Postorius code at first (ie, you would be responsible for patching it and merging our public releases, there would not be regular releases). I doubt it would be merged in a near- future release, at least I wouldn't be confident enough to do that myself without beta testing on a branch. I don't think it would be hard to implement a "restricted superuser" role. The annoying part would be figuring out where to apply it, as the "authenticated user", "moderator", and "superuser" roles are implemented via Python "decorators" applied to the functions implementing the various features. And the changes would likely need to be pervasive in page templates, forms, and functional code. > The user permissions that are configurable under /admin/auth/user/ > do not seem to have any effect. As far as I know the only bit that has big effects is "superuser", and there's a "staff" bit that has some effect on the superuser IIRC. Everything else is implemented in Postorius. > We have a helpdesk team that would benefit from being able to > access all list pages in the same way as a Superuser, but without > the ability to accidentally delete the mail domain for example. I almost started on this two years ago, but that customer wanted it for individual lists rather than a helpdesk team, and realized that all the relevant owners would be satisfied with promoting moderators to owner. So it didn't happen. Footnotes: [1] There are several consultants who would be capable of maintenance in the consultant list on the wiki, and more than one who would be able to design and implement the code if you're in a we-want-it-enough- to-pay hurry. -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan

2 months, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Fwd: [Django] ERROR (EXTERNAL IP): Internal Server Error: /mailman3/hyperkitty/api/mailman/archive

by Mark Sapiro

On 3/2/21 12:33 PM, David Partain via Mailman-users wrote: > On Tue, 2021-03-02 at 20:07 +0000, David Partain via Mailman-users > wrote: >> On Tue, 2021-03-02 at 19:56 +0000, David Partain via Mailman-users >> wrote: >> >> I assume this is because /usr/share/mailman3-web/manage.py, which >> has: >> >> '#!/usr/bin/env python' >> >> resolves to Python 2.7.17. >> >> Should I could try changing that to '#!/usr/bin/env python3' and see >> what happens? :) I could also uninstall python2 but that becomes >> more of a nail-biter... NO! Do not do that. >> I can report that the above doesn't help. Neither does just making >> /usr/bin/python link to /usr/bin/python3.6 >> >> I still get errors in mailman-web.log pointing to 2.7 as shown in my >> previous mail. > > If I force the issue by linking /usr/bin/python to /usr/bin/python3.6, > I start seeing: > > ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'hyperkitty > > in mailman-web.log. > > I know next to nothing about python. Is > > pip install hyperkitty > > the right answer? No. > I have the following installed now: > > # dpkg -l | grep hyperkitty > python-django-hyperkitty 1.1.4-4 > python3-mailman-hyperkitty 1.1.0-4 > > but this version of Ubuntu has no python3-django-hyperkitty or I'd just > try installing that... This is all because you are using the Ubuntu 18.04 package which is about 4 years out of date and is from the era where HyperKitty, Postorius and django_mailman3 still ran under Python 2.1.7. Unless you want to remove the Ubuntu package and install everything with pip, you need to just stick with what you have that at least partly works and we'll try to determine how to fix the utf8mb4 issue. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years

[MM3-users] Re: Unable to get mailman3 working on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS

by John Covici

OK, thanks, I will check it out and see how far I get. One thing, when you start a container, you can give it a name, so you would not need that long id string. On Fri, 29 Oct 2021 00:26:07 -0400, Shawn Heisey wrote: > > On 10/27/2021 9:51 PM, John Covici wrote: > > I am interested in your docr instructions. I don't use postfix, > > instead I use sendmail, but I think I can figure that out, but I have > > been having lots of problems installing without docr, and I do have > > apache, so this would be great. Send off list if you think that would > > not be of general use. > > The instructions found here are most of what is needed: > > https://github.com/maxking/docker-mailman/#running > > Here's the issue where I provided my Apache config: > > https://github.com/maxking/docker-mailman/issues/525 > > For each of my mailing lists, I created the list and then > imported a mailman 2.1 config. I had problems with the footer > being appended to list messages ... it took me a while to figure > out how to fix that! You have to delete the footer config file, > restart the container, and then if the resulting default footer > is insufficent, use the admin web page to redefine it. > > Instructions for exim and postfix are included on the project > page. I haven't used sendmail in many years, so I wouldn't have > any idea how to get that working. Even when I was using it, I > found the config to be extremely arcane and difficult. > > Thanks, > Shawn > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici wb2una covici(a)ccs.covici.com

4 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Member Issue Discovered

by Abhilash Raj

I am a bit late to this thread, but I am going to try to respond to some of the points raised in the thread. On 10/19/20 7:42 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote: > On 10/19/20 10:23 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> And the import21 created the user and address records for this user. > Does the same thing for a new subscriber as well. So there is no pathway > to change a real name that is associated with an email address. None. > Zilch. Yes, this is a limitation of the REST API, the display_name attribute can't be updated. Hence, Postorius can't provide a way for anyone to update the name. I have opened an issue for this[1] and I think it should be allowed. [1]: https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/786 > I am admin for a list. Users got subscribed with bulk import during > transition from MM2 to MM3. > So in a sense I am responsible for adding these to a db. BUT there is > no way for me to remove them. Only mailman admin with access to the db > can do it manually. The fact that a user's memberships & User as an entity that owns email address is a design choice that Mailman developers made after some experience of using and administering Mailing lists running on Mailman 2. It was annoying to have to manage several different passwords and accounts to manage membership on same mailing list server. The policy decision that Mailman would allow a user/address to exist even if there are no subscriptions on it isn't un-resonable in certain environments and maybe it is in some. I don't think anyone here denies that either of those behavior could be an expectation from someone using Mailman. But Mailman is an open source project with decent amount of extensibility via HTTP API & Python plugin system. If the default policy doesn't match the expectations of some users, I don't think it is difficult to cleanup users/address with 0 subscriptions in a nightly cron script. It is trivial with some basic scripting and we are happy to help out with such a mechanism. I wouldn't be opposed to directly adding a command in Core that lets you clean up all sorts of stuff. On Wed, Oct 21, 2020, at 10:20 AM, Apollinaris Schöll wrote: > There might be a handful of these. > > But the bigger problem is a user can’t be removed entirely. > > User can delete account and unsubscribe from all lists. But the email > and user name is still kept in the db. Just tested with Affinity > List admin can’t do it either. Front-ends like Affinity should be able to implement such a policy by checking subscriptions of an address on every un-subscription call and delete the user & address if it comes out to be 0. The API is documented here[2], but if there are gaps in there like I mentioned above in my email, please open issues so we know about them. [2]: https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/rest/docs/… > I think the correct action is to remove all records if a email is > unsubscribed from all lists and that user has not registered for an > account. > If a user has registered for an account all information including > display name must be removed from that particular list subscription. > It should not matter if a user unsubscribes or a list admin > unsubscribes. There shouldn’t be any data kept. Also, like mentioned above, as a list admin, you can request the Site Admin to get the address fully scrubbed or if this is an expectation from all list admins, the Site Admin has the ability to automate such a task. The fact the Mailman doesn't do it by default is because the definition of "correct" action is different. User should have the ability to delete themselves from the system and if it doesn't wipe everything yet from database, it should be considered a bug in Postorius and be fixed. Postorius track users separately than Core, so the it should make sure to delete in both places and there are appropriate APIs in core to delete Users and Addresses. Now, the ability in Postorius to edit the display_name. The side effect of the model where User is a Site level thing, makes it impossible to customize user's display_name on a per-list basis, for both list admin and the user themselves. That is a trade-off and it is possible that there were use-cases where that was desirable in Mailman 2, but with the superior subscription management functionality in Postorius, I feel the decision is justified. I respect that some of y'all think that it probably isn't if it doesn't suit you particular use cases. From the thread, I gather than folks mostly agree that a list admin shouldn't be allowed to edit a user's display name. Site Admins however should be able to edit that, which brings me to next point. Like Mark brought up, there is definitely a big missing feature of User management in Postorius. This future management page would be for Site Admins (Superusers) to manage Users and have the ability to change pretty much everything about users including their addresses, memberships and preferences and also be able to wipe off the users from all the databases if they want to. If there are more features than that which folks think should be a part of this, please feel free to add to it. As it is hopefully implied from the description, it is a big task and needs substantial chunk of time, part of which this hasn't been picked up yet. > > > > > > > > On Oct 21, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Jörg Schulz <info(a)joergschulz.de> wrote: > > > > So, the issue seems to be, like in the following scenario > > > > We imagine a list server for the domains fruiteaters and meateaters. > > We have two listadmins, anna (fruit) and carl (meat). They don't share anything. > > We have a user who subscribes to fruiteaters and meateaters using his address hunger(a)eatall.com > > > > He wants to show up in the fruiteaters list as fullname wormy wonder, but in the meateaters list as fritz the cat. > > While he can do so using two different email addresses, he cannot do so using > > > > wormy wonder <hunger(a)eatall.com> > > fritz the cat <hunger(a)eatall.com> > > > > as from: addresses because all requests will be matched to the one email address. > > > > Worse, if Carl would be able to change the name to from wormy wonder to fritz the cat, Anna would see that name change and like to change it back because the user she had known, user has been identified as wormy wonder. > > > > So, if these user properties are stored somewhere not related to the lists, we don't seem to have a chance of display name changes by list admins as long as the data model isn't changed. This doesn't seem to be easy. > > > > So, only some kind of super-Admin should currently be able to change these display names, and these changes would be visible for all lists, and one email address can only have one display name for all lists. > > > > Not optimal for some rare conditions - that's the way it seems to be??? > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

5 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: problems installing mailman3 under gentoo and upgrading mailman2 to mailman3

by Mark Sapiro

On 3/12/21 7:36 PM, John Covici wrote: > Hi. I am having a great deal of difficulty installing mailman3 using > gentoo and sendmail. Also, I want to upgrade my old mailman2 data to > mailman3. > > What I have done so far is to install the mailman3 packages from my > repository and got this: > django-mailman3 version 1.3.4, mailmanclient version 3.3.1, mailman > version 3.3.2 (apparently the core), postorius version 1.3.3 and > hyperkitty version 1.3.3. I also have mariadb and postgresql already installed. Are these gentoo packages? If so, I have no idea how they are configured. > Now trying to read your documentation, it seems it wants me to > reinstall some packages using pip in the home directory of the mailman > user in a python virtual environment, that was the first thing. But I > would like to avoid multiple package managers wherever possible -- > gentoo is already a lot of maintainance without dealing with pip's > maintainance. The binaries also seem to be different from my gentoo packages. Our documantation generally covers installing from source. If you are installing gentoo packages, you should be looking at gentoo docs and going to gentoo for help. We recommend installing Mailman and the web components in a virtualenv, but it is not a requirement. We also suggest that postgresql is a better choice than MariaDB. > So, how do I proceed with getting mailman3 up and working, configuring > the database, configs, etc and I guess after doing that upgrading > mailman2 and getting sendmail to interface properly with mailman3? Importing lists from Mailman 2 is done with the `mailman import21` command. See <https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/commands/d…>. Importing archives is done with the Django management `hyperkitty_import` command. See <https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/hyperkitty/en/latest/install.html#import…> For sendmail, see <https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/mta.h…> -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Badsignature on uwsgi-error.log

by Helio Loureiro

Hi Mark, Thanks for your response. I found what the issue was. I actually misspelled hyperkitty as hyPperkitty on the url. So the error on mailman-hyperkitty.cfg was: base_url: http://localhost:8000/hypperkitty/ I moved to: base_url: http://localhost:8000/hyperkitty/ and it was solved. Problem was the wrong link was getting a generic page from Django instead of error. And it was failing to do the parsing probably, which was taking wrongly as key mistake. Best Regards, Helio Loureiro https://helio.loureiro.eng.br https://github.com/helioloureiro https://mastodon.social/@helioloureiro On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 at 01:13, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > On 3/20/24 14:25, Helio Loureiro wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I keep receiving a lot of errors like this: > > > > --- Logging error --- > > Traceback (most recent call last): > ... > > > "/local/mailman/venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages/django_q/core_signing.py", > > line 55, in unsign > > raise BadSignature('Signature "%s" does not match' % sig) > > django.core.signing.BadSignature: Signature "F6V0Dr_SvBsx5-cY8vcvLXrX8tA" > > does not match > ... > > > > The api_key on mailman-hypperkitty.cfg, SECRET_KEY and > MAILMAN_ARCHIVE_KEY > > on setting.py are the same. > > > Of those three, the api_key on mailman-hypperkitty.cfg and > MAILMAN_ARCHIVE_KEY must match. SECRET_KEY is different. It is a Django > thing and has nothing to do with the others. See > https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/5.0/ref/settings/#secret-key > > If you changed it, that's the issue. If you know what it was previously, > you could set the previous value in SECRET_KEY_FALLBACKS, see > https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/5.0/ref/settings/#secret-key-fallbacks > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > Archived at: > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… > > This message sent to helio(a)loureiro.eng.br >

1 year, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: mailman3-web and the django middleware problem

by Mark Sapiro

On 4/25/24 14:01, Thomas Stein wrote: > Am 2024-04-25 22:03, schrieb Mark Sapiro: >> >> I don't know how things are arranged in the Debian/Ubuntu package, but >> you may have a settings.py which at the end does something like >> ``` >> try: >> from settings_local import * >> except ImportError: >> pass >> ``` >> If that is the case, adding the above snippet to the end of >> settings_local.py should work. > > Yes, that's the case. I added the snippet in question to > settings_local.py but this leads to another error: > > File "/usr/share/mailman3-web/settings.py", line 503, in <module> > from settings_local import * > File "/usr/share/mailman3-web/settings_local.py", line 194, in <module> > x = list(MIDDLEWARE) > ^^^^^^^^^^ > NameError: name 'MIDDLEWARE' is not defined > dpkg: error processing package mailman3-web (--configure): Yes. I understand. In your case, MIDDLEWARE is only defined in settings.py and not in settings_local.py. As I understand it originally you added ``` x = list(MIDDLEWARE) x.insert(0, 'allauth.account.middleware.AccountMiddleware') MIDDLEWARE = x ``` to settings.py and you say it didn't help. I don't know why that wouldn't work as long as there is no setting for MIDDLEWARE in settings_local.py and you added that after the MIDDLEWARE setting in settings.py. When you say it didn't help, do you mean you still get the django.core.exceptions.ImproperlyConfigured: allauth.account.middleware.AccountMiddleware must be added to settings.MIDDLEWARE message or something else? I note that the original post in this thread refers to /etc/mailman3/mailman-web.py which is presumably where the package ultimately puts the Django settings, and I don't know what `dpkg --configure` is doing. One thing you could try is in settings_local.py, put ``` from settings import MIDDLEWARE x = list(MIDDLEWARE) x.insert(0, 'allauth.account.middleware.AccountMiddleware') MIDDLEWARE = x ``` to work around the NameError. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

1 year, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: user self registration

by Christian Stalberg

Something strange is now going on. Now when a user tries to subscribe themself and they get the ' Please check your inbox for further instructions' no such email arrives in their mailbox. Relatedly, if I as an admin try adding someone to a list via the Mass Subscribe, they are not added to the list, but they do appear in the listing of all Users. Help! -----Original Message----- From: Christian Stalberg via Mailman-users <mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> Sent: Monday, December 8, 2025 6:16 AM To: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org Cc: 'Mark Sapiro' <mark(a)msapiro.net> Subject: [MM3-users] Re: user self registration That worked. Thank you! -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2025 9:26 AM To: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org Subject: [MM3-users] Re: user self registration On 12/7/25 07:46, Christian Stalberg via Mailman-users wrote: > Spammers have been registering and not subscribing. I want to turn off > the user self registration at https://lists.ccalternatives.org/mailman3/ . > > I edited /etc/mailman3/settings.py adding ACCOUNT_ALLOW_REGISTRATION = > False and restarted the services, but the ' Sign Up' option remains. I > assume /etc/mailman3/settings.py is my active settings file. > > What am I doing wrong? Web searches may find reference to a django-allauth setting ACCOUNT_ALLOW_REGISTRATION, but this setting doesn't exist in current django-allauth The setting you want is ACCOUNT_ADAPTER = ‘django_mailman3.views.user_adapter.DisableSignupAdapter’ See https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/faq.html#how-to-disable-signup or https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman-web/en/latest/settings.html#mail… -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ Archived at: https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… This message sent to csa(a)web-analysts.net _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ Archived at: https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… This message sent to csa(a)web-analysts.net

2 months, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Help on removing moderators

by Mark Sapiro

On 3/4/20 6:26 AM, sean_sullivan(a)rhoworld.com wrote: > > However, if I try and bring that in as a function that can be used with mailman withlist, I am consistently getting errors, and being that I am not very experienced in python, it has me scratching my head to say the least. > > from mailmanclient import Client You do not need to use mailmanclient with shell/withlist. mailmanclient is Python bindings for REST API functions. When you are under `mailman shell` (or `mailman withlist`, a synonym for `mailman shell`) you are working within mailman core and it's just extra baggage to use mailmanclient/REST. > from mailman.interfaces.member import MemberRole, AlreadySubscribedError > from mailman.testing.helpers import subscribe Here again, mailman.testing.helpers is to provide certain functions used in doctests. You don't need that with mailman shell. > addresses = ['test1(a)example.com', 'test2(a)example.com', 'test3(a)example.com'] > > client = Client('http://localhost:8001/3.1', 'restadmin', 'restpass') > > def set_owners(mlist): > > for email_addr in addresses: > try: > member = subscribe(mlist, '', email=email_addr, role=MemberRole.owner ) See below. > print (member) > except AlreadySubscribedError as err: > print (err) > > def remove(mlist): > my_list = client.get_list(mlist) > # print(my_list.fqdn_listname) > # for email_addr in addresses: > # my_list.remove_owner(email_addr) > > The errors I am getting are: > > ./bin/mailman withlist -r set_owners.remove -l it-test-b(a)lists.rhoworld.com > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "./bin/mailman", line 8, in <module> > sys.exit(main()) > File "/opt/mailman3/lib/python3.6/site-packages/click/core.py", line 764, in __call__ > return self.main(*args, **kwargs) > File "/opt/mailman3/lib/python3.6/site-packages/click/core.py", line 717, in main > rv = self.invoke(ctx) > File "/opt/mailman3/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/bin/mailman.py", line 68, in invoke > return super().invoke(ctx) > File "/opt/mailman3/lib/python3.6/site-packages/click/core.py", line 1137, in invoke > return _process_result(sub_ctx.command.invoke(sub_ctx)) > File "/opt/mailman3/lib/python3.6/site-packages/click/core.py", line 956, in invoke > return ctx.invoke(self.callback, **ctx.params) > File "/opt/mailman3/lib/python3.6/site-packages/click/core.py", line 555, in invoke > return callback(*args, **kwargs) > File "/opt/mailman3/lib/python3.6/site-packages/click/decorators.py", line 17, in new_func > return f(get_current_context(), *args, **kwargs) > File "/opt/mailman3/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/commands/cli_withlist.py", line 293, in shell > r = call_name(dotted_name, m, *run_args) > File "/opt/mailman3/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/utilities/modules.py", line 70, in call_name > return named_callable(*args, **kws) > File "/opt/mailman3/bin/set_owners.py", line 24, in remove > my_list = client.get_list(mlist) > File "/opt/mailman3/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailmanclient/client.py", line 347, in get_list > 'lists/{0}'.format(fqdn_listname)) > File "/opt/mailman3/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailmanclient/restbase/connection.py", line 112, in call > error_msg, response, None) > urllib.error.HTTPError: HTTP Error 404: 404 Not Found > > > So, I am wondering, is it possible to do something like this or am I completely misunderstanding the documentation, and why do I get a 404 here, when in the shell everything works as expected. I know I must be missing something, but cannot for the life of me figure out what that is. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here's what you want with addresses as arguments so you can save this as set_owners.py and run things like. $ bin/mailman shell --run set_owners -l list.example.com \ test1(a)example.com test2(a)example.com test3(a)example.com' and $ bin/mailman shell --run set_owners.remove -l list.example.com \ test1(a)example.com test2(a)example.com test3(a)example.com' > from mailman.app.membership import add_member, delete_member > from mailman.interfaces.member import MemberRole, AlreadySubscribedError > from mailman.interfaces.subscriptions import RequestRecord > > def set_owners(mlist, *addresses): > for email_addr in addresses: > try: > record = RequestRecord(email_addr) > member = add_member(mlist, record, role=MemberRole.owner) > print (member) > except AlreadySubscribedError as err: > print (err) > > def remove(mlist, *addresses): > for owner in mlist.owners.members: > if owner.address.email in addresses: > owner.unsubscribe() -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

6 years

[MM3-users] Re: Does hyperkitty show JPEGs in line and what about attachments?

by Jason Glazer

Thanks for the suggestion on a shared IMAP mailbox. Jason On 7/11/2017 4:45 PM, tlhackque via Mailman-users wrote: > On 11-Jul-17 12:54, Jason Glazer wrote: >> I run several MailMan 2.1 mailing lists and some subscribers are >> frustrated by the way pipermail deals with JPEGs that are embedded in >> the messages and also with how attachments are handled. Does hyperkitty >> in Mailman 3.1 do better on these issues. >> >> Assuming this message gets archived, I am going to try embedding a >> small picture right here: >> >> Hopefully that shows up in the archive. I won't add an attachment >> because the list may not allow it but I'm curious how those are >> handled. >> >> Thanks >> >> Jason >> -- >> Jason Glazer, P.E., BEMP, GARD Analytics, 90.1 ECB chair, 209 chair >> Admin for onebuilding.org building performance mailing lists >> > I know that this particular list is setup to strip HTML and only > distribute text/plain. > > I haven't gotten to HyperKitty configuration yet (a lot of plumbing yet > to do for my environment), > but I too am interested in having HTML mail archived & viewable as an > HTML MUA would show it. > > I pretty much gave up on the 2.1 archiver for the HTML lists. Instead, > I subscribed a mailbox to the lists, > and served it to the community read-only with IMAP. Dovecot handles > private 'seen' flags for shared mailboxes, so this let people use their > favorite e-mail client to browse the archive. > > I'm hoping that I won't have to reconstruct this for my new > environment...but it's an option. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ -- Jason Glazer, P.E., BEMP, GARD Analytics, 90.1 ECB chair, 209 chair Admin for onebuilding.org building performance mailing lists

8 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: What's the difference between (purpose of) reject and ignore

by denis.bitouze＠univ-littoral.fr

Hello, Andy Smith wrote: > On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 12:37:05PM -0000, denis.bitouze(a)univ-littoral.fr wrote: > >> AFAICS, it is not documented since, at Postorius → Settings → Message >> Acceptance → Default action to take when a (non-)member posts to the >> list, I only read: “Discard: this simply discards the message, with >> no notice sent to the post's author”. So no mention that this would >> set it to (silently) discard all future mails from them. > > Well that is because that isn't what that part does. As it says, > that part is the "Default action to take when a member/non-member > posts to the list". So that's where you set what you want to happen > when ANY non-member posts. This is what will happen any time any > non-member posts. > By contrast, when you set an action on a particular held message, it > is asking you want you want to do with posts from THAT INDIVIDUAL > ADDRESS for the future. > So hopefully you can see that these things are different. One is a > whole-list property that applies to posts from classes of posters > (members, non-members). The other is per-poster property as a > reaction to as held message from them. OK, I see, thanks. >> Just to be sure: for this feature, is it necessary to click on the >> subject and to choose in the drop-down list “Discard (no >> notification)”, or is it enough, on the .../held_messages page, to >> select the messages and click on “Discard”? > > Doing it from the held messages page will be a one-time thing; it is > only by clicking on the individual message that you can choose an > action for future messages from that address. OK. Too bad this cannot be done from the list of messages on the .../held_messages page: it would be very helpful when you are overwhelmed by spams...

3 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] How to add new Domain?

by c.benner＠apd-it.eu

Hello, i'm really new to mailman3 and I've been using mm2.1 couple of years. It's really hardto understand documentation. But I'll do one in german language next time. I've got it installed ob Debian12 and it's working now. It takes a little more time to understand all settings and also the difference between postorius and django and what is when used for. But what I do not understand 'til now is how to add a new domain. My running config has one domain (e.g.) testdomain1.org and everything is working fine. The Domain has a virtualhost which listens on *:443 (with LE cert) Postfix works like a charm. The interface of the machine is bound to one IP Address public but for example here written as: 192.168.200.15 Id like to add a new Domain. My first step would be to add another IP Address to the interface: (e.g.) 192.168.200.16 Then I'll change the virtual host settings in apache conf from first domain which is actually listeing to *:443 to 192.168.200.15:443 And add a second site with 192.168.200.16:443 So the "physical" part is done Is that right 'til now? After that I'll go to the admin page xxxx/mailman3/admin which brings django admin page up. On that page I'll add "websites" and add testdomain2.net Last step is adding "mail domain" site: testdomain2.net mail domain: testdomain2.net After that I can add lists to that domain and mails to any list @testdomain2,net should be routed right? Maybe I'm to old (56yrs) but I've read a lot of documentation and everything was clear and understandable. It was never a question of linux or windows OS but on who'S writing the doc. I can't find any doc about the web part? What about Users having no acces to the shell but the Web-Frontend? Some pictures and a "How to" and "what if" would be great! But it's alos possible that I'm not finding it and it's somewhere out there. Thanks in advance.

1 year, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Countdown to the 3.1 release

by Barry Warsaw

On Jul 13, 2016, at 12:18 PM, Simon Hanna wrote: >I guess https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues/219 should be fixed in >the next release. If 3.1 find its way into repositories, we will get >lot's of issue reports for this I suppose. Thanks Simon. I've put this in the 3.1 milestone and will take a look. >Terri was working on this one, it's not critical but nice to have for >usability >https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/merge_requests/159 ack. >I have a mr pending for mailmanclient that should be included in the >next release >https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailmanclient/merge_requests/10 I've added a 3.1 milestone to mailmanclient and assigned this one to it. >Postorius has a number of merge requests open. I'm not sure which of >them should be merged before the next release Florian, do you have time in the next few weeks to do some Postorius triaging? >Does your template branch in core need any immediate modifications to >mailmanclient and/or postorius? It shouldn't, at least for API 3.0. All the new template APIs are exposed on v3.1 only, and when using the v3.0 API, they should map the old attribute names to the new mechanisms, so it should all be transparent. Modulo bugs of course. ;) I think it would be nice if mailmanclient and/or Postorius used the v3.1 API to get the full power of the templates branch, but it's probably not critical for the current release. Flo and I did talk about adding a cli that Postorius could call when installing it next to a v3.1 Core, e.g. to install some default templates for a cohabitating Postorius, but on further thought, it would be just as easy to write a bit of Python code to install those templates. Note though that someone would have to write the templates and ship them with Postorius, but they could be done using file: URLs into the Postorius install directory. That would be a fun project for someone to tackle, and I'd be happy to answer any questions that come up. Cheers, -Barry

9 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Confirm on mass subscription

by tlhackque

On 05-Jul-17 22:09, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 7/5/17 1:48 PM, David Krantz wrote: > > >> Is there a way of requiring all mass subscribed users to confirm their >> email adress? I have an use case where we have a current mail list but >> when moving it to mailman I for different reasons would like to >> confirm all subscribers. Some very shallow testing suggests that if I >> just add them using mass subscribe, they will not have to confirm at >> all. >> >> I have yet to upgrade to 3.1 but I will do so in due time. > > In MM 2.1, you just send the users invitations rather than subscribing > them. In MM3/Postorius, this does not seem to be an option at present. > Actually, 2.1 lets you do it either way. The first radio button on Mass Subscriptions is: "Subscribe these users now or invite them? " MM 2.1 also allows control of whether the new subscribers and/or list owner are notified. And it allows custom text to be added to the invitation/notification (when one is sent). MM3 has none of these controls. Postorious issue #203 and mailman #362 refer to the MM 2.1 regressions. However, I read this somewhat differently: given a list with subscribers (however they were subscribed), it is sometimes useful to be able to ask the members to re-confirm their address/interest. For example, when there's a change of policy (terms of use), or when local opt-in regulations require that that opt-in be reconfirmed periodically. It's handled out-of-band now, but this would seem to be something that Mailman could manage - change users' state to "unconfirmed" and issue the re-invite/re-subscribe notice. But there are some details: re-confirmation probably doesn't want to require moderator re-approval (at least not always). How this interacts with "don't deliver mail from this list" needs definition (probably overrides), but some members (notably moderators/owners/robots) need to be exempt. And like 2.1, the user notification needs to be different to explain that it's a re-confirmation.

8 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Debian Package Install - Ownership and Permissions

by Dave Hall

On Fri, Apr 7, 2023 at 5:47 PM Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > On 4/7/23 13:43, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 7, 2023 at 8:09 PM Andreas Schamanek < > > as2020+github(a)fam.tuwien.ac.at> wrote: > >> > >> I am running MM2 und 3 in parallel without problems, I do have a > >> special MTA setup though (Sendmail). Can't speak for Postfix etc.. > >> > > > > Your setup can handle list1(a)domain1.name via MM2 and MM3, > simultaneously, > > right? :-) > > It is possible to have an MM2 `list1` and an MM3 `list1(a)domain1.name` > simultaneously on the same server, but what is the MTA going to do with > incoming mail to `list1(a)domain1.name`. I suppose it could deliver it to > both MM2 and MM3, but I don't see any practical use case for this. > > I run Exim4 on my servers so I can comment from this perspective. Exim had a concept of 'routers' which are stacked and processed in order of appearance. There is a router for MM2 and one for MM3 that pick off incoming mail based on whether the email address matches a list name. WIth this setup, you could have the same list name in both MM2 and MM3, but it would go to whichever router appears first and the second one would never see it. So I have the MM3 router first, and as I migrate my lists from MM3 the email for those lists no longer gets to MM2. > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > Archived at: > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… > > This message sent to kdhall(a)binghamton.edu -- Dave Hall Binghamton University kdhall(a)binghamton.edu 607-760-2328 (Cell) 607-777-4641 (Office)

2 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Change to content filtering collapse alternatives - was: Re: Mailman shutting down Hyperkitty: Request too large

by Mark Sapiro

On 2/1/25 03:08, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Mark Sapiro writes: > > > Not if we're collapsing alternatives. If we're collapsing a > > multipart/alternative part with text/plain and text/html > > alternatives to just the first alternative we don't keep the > > text/html part. > > I understand that's what we currently do. But I think that when the > MUA provides an empty plain text part and a non-null HTML part, that's > a mark of lazy MUA developers, not author intent. I think that it's > very likely that the author would prefer the reader get converted HTML > rather than a blank. I think this is a request to change the collapsing of alternatives to not collapse to the first alternative if it is empty and a subsequent alternative is not. I see your point in general if the poster composes an HTML message and the MUA makes a multipart/alternative message with an empty text/plain part, but are there actually MUAs that do that? All the ones I'm aware of either make an HTML only message or attempt to make a reasonable text/plain alternative. Even Yahoo mail which does a horrible job of making the text/plain part (i.e. links which are copy/pasted in the HTML are dropped from the plain text) does make one. That said, the effect on the OP's case, which may be more common, may be harmful depending on list and Mailman config. The original message from the OP (edited) is ``` Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="000000000000da2dcc062cb38aa1" --000000000000da2dcc062cb38aa1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000da2dcb062cb38aa0" --000000000000da2dcb062cb38aa0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" --000000000000da2dcb062cb38aa0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" <div dir="auto"><img src="cid:ii_194a8d787554eb091f02" style="max-width: 100%; height: auto;"><br><br></div> --000000000000da2dcb062cb38aa0-- --000000000000da2dcc062cb38aa1 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="1000013462.jpg" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="1000013462.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <ii_194a8d787554eb091f02> X-Attachment-Id: ii_194a8d787554eb091f02 <base64 content> --000000000000da2dcc062cb38aa1-- ``` The HTML alternative only renders the jpg as an inline image. After current collapse alternatives this becomes ``` Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="000000000000da2dcc062cb38aa1" --000000000000da2dcc062cb38aa1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" --000000000000da2dcc062cb38aa1 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="1000013462.jpg" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="1000013462.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <ii_194a8d787554eb091f02> X-Attachment-Id: ii_194a8d787554eb091f02 <base64 content> --000000000000da2dcc062cb38aa1-- ``` which is an empty first part followed by the jpg part which is then further collapsed to just the jpg part ``` Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="1000013462.jpg" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="1000013462.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 <base64 content> ``` I.e. a single part message with content type image/jpeg. If instead we collapsed the alternatives to the HTML part the message becomes ``` Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="000000000000da2dcc062cb38aa1" --000000000000da2dcc062cb38aa1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" <div dir="auto"><img src="cid:ii_194a8d787554eb091f02" style="max-width: 100%; height: auto;"><br><br></div> --000000000000da2dcc062cb38aa1 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="1000013462.jpg" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="1000013462.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <ii_194a8d787554eb091f02> X-Attachment-Id: ii_194a8d787554eb091f02 <base64 content> --000000000000da2dcc062cb38aa1-- ``` and what that html part looks like after conversion to plain text depends on the configured command. With the default lynx the content is unchanged, put the type is text/plain which will render as the text with the image attached. With links the plain text content is empty which results again in a message with empty first part and image/jpeg second part. In short, for this message at least, I see no real advantage to dropping the empty text/plain alternative vs. dropping the text/html alternative. Possibly there is a difference if we don't convert HTML to plain text in that some MUAs might render the jpeg inline as opposed to an attachment, but if we do convert with lynx the recipient sees a message with a body which is HTML tags rendered as text. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

1 year, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: at the finish line of mailman3 docker, but can't sign in.

by Abhilash Raj

On Fri, Jul 30, 2021, at 11:01 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 7/30/21 10:47 AM, bob B wrote: > > > > Basically once I have docker installed, and mailman3 up and no lists are available, How do I setup or/and sign in as admin? > > > I'm not sure what the actual command would be do run the django-admin > interface in the docker image, but from below, it looks like it's > `mailman-web`. Run `mailman-web createsuperuser` to create an admin ID. Container images don't support mailman-web command yet, it has to be ported to use the mailman-web command. You can run commands with `docker exec -it mailman-web ./manage.py <command>`. For creating the superuser, you can run[1] [1]: https://asynchronous.in/docker-mailman/web.html#running Although, if you have set the MAILMAN_ADMIN_EMAIL, that command should have already run in the setup process. You want to figure out the email sending process. Although, you can create a second admin and set the password for it and login using that using the command mentioned at [1]. > > > > Also In docker how can I test sending mail? the command "mailman-web sendtestemail youremailid@domain" from the mailman-web container does not work. You can run docker exec -it mailman-web ./manage.py sendtestemail youremailid@domain > > This command tries to send the mail via SMTP to localhost port 25. > > > > How can I make sure my containers can send and receive mail? > > > The MTA should be listening on port 25 and that need to be visible in > the mailman-web container. See > <https://asynchronous.in/docker-mailman/#setting-up-your-mta> > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

4 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: moderation notices for list-owner being redirected to mailman address

by Mark Sapiro

On 2/7/22 16:11, Philippe B wrote: > I think that your last sentence helped us figure out what's going on. > > When Mailman generates a moderation message "To: LIST-owner" it actually delivers it to the address(es) of the LIST's moderator(s), which makes sense. No, it delivers the message to the union of the sets of owner addresses and moderator addresses. > In all the cases where we've seen that behavior, it turns out that the list involved didn't have any moderator, and we have site_owner set to "mailman"... You don't need to have moderators. The owners get the message too. > However, the lists had an owner, and we're not seeing those moderation messages being sent to their owner (instead). Is that something that needs to be configured explicitly somewhere? The only things that might affect this are if Settings -> Automatic Responses -> Autorespond to list owner is Respond and discard message or if the owners delivery_status is other than DeliveryStatus.enabled. Note that finding an owner's delivery status is tricky. The owner can find it in Postorius by going to https://www.example.com/mailman3/accounts/subscriptions/ and clicking on the entry for the list with role owner. This delivery status is not the same as the delivery status for the same address with a member role if there is one. For an admin you could do ``` $ bin/mailman shell -l list.example.com Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell Use commit() to commit changes. Use abort() to discard changes since the last commit. Exit with ctrl+D does an implicit commit() but exit() does not. The variable 'm' is the list.example.com mailing list >>> owner = m.owners.get_member('user(a)example.com') >>> owner.delivery_status <DeliveryStatus.enabled: 1> If you needed to set it here, you could do >>> owner.preferences.delivery_status = DeliveryStatus.enabled >>> commit() >>> ``` -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years

[MM3-users] Re: help with startup scripts

by Piet Barber

On Thu, Aug 14, 2025 at 3:03 AM Stephen J. Turnbull <steve(a)turnbull.jp> wrote: > Piet Barber via Mailman-users writes: > > > However, when I follow the systemctl startup scripts as per the > > instructions at the URL above, it get stuck in the startup > > ... forever > > What makes you think it's stuck? Have you actually tried to use it? > If not, it's probably just that systemd messages were not written to > be understood by ordinary mortals. > root@arcus:/etc/systemd/system# systemctl start mailman3 (extreeeeemelllyyy loooooong wait of nothing ensues) Eventually I get: root@arcus:/etc/systemd/system# time systemctl start mailman3 *Job for mailman3.service failed because a timeout was exceeded.**See "systemctl status mailman3.service" and "journalctl -xeu mailman3.service" for details.* real 0m19.442s user 0m0.002s sys 0m0.012s root@arcus:/etc/systemd/system# the journalctl output is as follows: Aug 14 23:48:24 arcus mailman[5624]: Starting Mailman's master runner Aug 14 23:48:24 arcus mailman[5624]: Generating MTA alias maps Aug 14 23:48:24 arcus systemd[1]: mailman3.service: Can't open PID file /opt/mailman/mm/var/master.pid (yet?) after start: No such file or direct> Aug 14 23:48:29 arcus mailman[5645]: /opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/mailman/rest/wsgiapp.py:185: DeprecatedWarning: The RequestOp> Aug 14 23:48:29 arcus mailman[5645]: self.req_options.auto_parse_form_urlencoded = True Aug 14 23:49:53 arcus systemd[1]: *mailman3.service: start operation timed out. Terminating.* Aug 14 23:49:55 arcus systemd[1]: *mailman3.service: Failed with result 'timeout'.*░░ Subject: Unit failed░░ Defined-By: systemd░░ Support: http://www.ubuntu.com/support░░ ░░ The unit mailman3.service has entered the 'failed' state with result 'timeout'. Aug 14 23:49:55 arcus systemd[1]: *Failed to start mailman3.service - GNU Mailing List Manager.*░░ Subject: A start job for unit mailman3.service has failed░░ Defined-By: systemd░░ Support: http://www.ubuntu.com/support░░ ░░ A start job for unit mailman3.service has finished with a failure.░░ ░░ The job identifier is 1153 and the job result is failed. Aug 14 23:49:55 arcus systemd[1]: mailman3.service: Consumed 13.298s CPU time.░░ Subject: Resources consumed by unit runtime░░ Defined-By: systemd░░ Support: http://www.ubuntu.com/support░░ ░░ The unit mailman3.service completed and consumed the indicated resources. Aug 14 23:50:10 arcus systemd[1]: mailman3.service: Scheduled restart job, restart counter is at 3.░░ Subject: Automatic restarting of a unit has been scheduled░░ Defined-By: systemd░░ Support: http://www.ubuntu.com/support░░ ░░ Automatic restarting of the unit mailman3.service has been scheduled, as the result for░░ the configured Restart= setting for the unit. Aug 14 23:50:10 arcus systemd[1]: Starting mailman3.service - GNU Mailing List Manager...░░ Subject: A start job for unit mailman3.service has begun execution░░ Defined-By: systemd░░ Support: http://www.ubuntu.com/support░░ ░░ A start job for unit mailman3.service has begun execution.░░ ░░ The job identifier is 1525. The system works fine when i su to mailman and run the startup script in /opt. The system doesn't work when I use the systemctl command. Apparently it's waiting for something to happen before the system creates a pidfile in /opt/mailman/m/var/master.pid Do you have mailman3 starting from a startup script? What does your /etc/systemd/system/mailman3.service file look like? Mine looks just like the one on the mailman configuration site. I have to be doing something stupid for it not to work. I just can't figure out what stupid thing I'm doing wrong. Also, removing the word "Forking" from the systemctl configuration file has no effect, except that it takes longer for the mailman3 startup script to fail. root@arcus:/etc/systemd/system# time systemctl start mailman3 *Job for mailman3.service failed because a timeout was exceeded.**See "systemctl status mailman3.service" and "journalctl -xeu mailman3.service" for details.* real 1m23.491s user 0m0.006s sys 0m0.004s root@arcus:/etc/systemd/system# I'm about to jump out the window on this one. I've been stuck on this for four weeks. Here's my mailman3.service file: [Unit]Description=GNU Mailing List ManagerAfter=syslog.target network.target postgresql.service [Service]#Type=forking#PIDFile=/opt/mailman/mm/var/master.pidUser=mailmanGroup=mailmanEnvironment="MAILMAN_CONFIG_FILE=/etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg"ExecStart=/opt/mailman/venv/bin/mailman startExecReload=/opt/mailman/venv/bin/mailman restartExecStop=/opt/mailman/venv/bin/mailman stopRestart=on-failureRestartSec=15 [Install]WantedBy=multi-user.target -- Piet Barber http://www.pietbarber.com/ http://blog.pietbarber.com/

6 months, 2 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Installing mailman 3

by Rafael Mora

Dear Kyle, after installing and doing mailman info I got this: (env) [mailman@localhost ~]$ mailman info Traceback (most recent call last): File "/var/lib/mailman/env/bin/mailman", line 11, in <module> load_entry_point('mailman==3.1.0', 'console_scripts', 'mailman')() File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/bin/mailman.py", line 97, in main initialize(config_path) File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/core/initialize.py", line 184, in initialize initialize_1(config_path) File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/core/initialize.py", line 119, in initialize_1 mailman.config.config.load(config_path) File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/config/config.py", line 107, in load self.push(filename, user_config.read()) File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/config/config.py", line 113, in push self._post_process() File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/config/config.py", line 125, in _post_process self.ensure_directories_exist() File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/config/config.py", line 227, in ensure_directories_exist with Lock(lock_file): File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/flufl/lock/_lockfile.py", line 322, in __enter__ self.lock() File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/flufl/lock/_lockfile.py", line 189, in lock self._write() File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/flufl/lock/_lockfile.py", line 405, in _write with open(self._claimfile, 'w') as fp: PermissionError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lock/mailman/mailman-cfg.lck|localhost.localdomain|7460|2370281649234082704' What do you suggest? El jue., 13 jul. 2017 a las 16:15, Kyle Richardson (< kylerichardson2(a)gmail.com>) escribió: > I included the corrected command in my previous message. > > For clarity, it is: > > # useradd -r -m -d /var/lib/mailman mailman > > -Kyle > > On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 4:56 PM Rafael Mora <rafael.mora.guti(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> What would be the correct command??? >> >> Thank you >> >> El jue., 13 jul. 2017 a las 15:55, Kyle Richardson (< >> kylerichardson2(a)gmail.com>) escribió: >> >>> Sorry, you're correct. I mistyped the useradd command. >>> >>> # useradd -r -m -d /var/lib/mailman mailman >>> >>> -Kyle >>> >> -- >> >> Atentamente / Best Regards >> >> Ing. Rafael Mora >> > -- Atentamente / Best Regards Ing. Rafael Mora

8 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: My list has been switched from public to private archives, but they are still visible

by Abhilash Raj

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019, at 11:15 AM, Enrique Terrazas wrote: > I am having a very similar issue. Here is what I have found: > > There are basically three archive settings we can select via the > postorious web front end for archives. These can be found in: Settings > > Archiving and they are: > Public archives > Private archives > Do not archive this list This is interface of Mailman to set the archives. > > In the Django administrative interface we can find those > same(?/similar?) settings here: Main Page > Hyperkitty > Mailing lists > > Mailing List object(x) > Archive policy: > never > private > public This is basically a hotline to the database. You can change these values, but they would be overriden with the values that are in Mailman Core on the daily cron job run. I would suggest not to tinker with values there since you could leave database in a corrupted state. Since there is an ORM layer there, chances are less but still a possibility :) > > I’m not sure which of the two takes precedence. My guess is postorius > since that is a list owner accessible setting and the Django > administrative interface would typically not be accessible to list > owners. We have noticed the following odd behavior, not sure if it is a > bug. For existing lists with private archives, when switching to “Do > not archive this list” in postorious, the desired effect of no longer > archiving the list is instantaneous. However, after the daily cron job > that syncs with Mailman Core happens, the existing archives now become > publicly accessible. Is this behavior based on the assumption that the > list will no longer be archived and will therefore be purged? Source of truth is Mailman Core's database. Postorius is a front-end to change that and owners have permissions to do that. Hyperkitty only syncs back that information daily. I have a fix in the master which makes such that this information is synced synchronously and is available immediately to Hyperkitty. For now, you could either run the "python manage.py runjobs --daily" or wait for a day if that is possible. > Enrique > > > On Sep 19, 2019, at 1:08 PM, Abhilash Raj <maxking(a)asynchronous.in> wrote: > > > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2019, at 3:31 AM, Paul Arenson wrote: > >> Can anyone help with this? > >> > >> I set my list to private archives today. Up until then, it was pubic. > >> And yet, if you go to the list page, you will see that if you click > >> archives (top left), you can see them. (Filled with a bunch of tests > >> posts for now) > > > > This change takes a bit of time to sync up Hyperkitty. THere is a daily > > cron job which syncs this information from Mailman Core. > > > > I have made a change which should fix this problem and the process would > > become synchronous. > > > > You can run `python manage.py runjobs --daily` command to force sync > > that information. > > > >> > >> https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist.toky… > >> > >> Am I misunderstanding what a private archive is? > > > > Not really, your expectation is right. > > > >> > >> Is something wrong with my setup (which is hosted)? > >> > >> Thank you. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > >> To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > >> https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.mai… > >> > > > > -- > > thanks, > > Abhilash Raj (maxking) > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > > https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.mai… > > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

6 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman 3 installation, no mails in hyperkitty, unable to add footer.

by Mark Sapiro

On 8/23/19 8:11 AM, ugniusviln(a)gmail.com wrote: > I have read documentation, but still have stupid questions, could You please help, because I can't make it working. I do not understand something important. I have no experience with python at all. I have mailman 3, python 3.5 in my debian OS system, and additional packages like uwsgi and ect. using https://buildmedia.readthedocs.org/media/pdf/gnu-mailman/latest/gnu-mailman… about till chapter 6. I understand mailman suite has hyperkitty already. But I am not sure about: > > 1. Does mailman-suite have hyper-kitty inside? Because if I run $python manage.py runserver - it runs. In installed it under dedicated OS user home and fonfigured to run. > I can create lists, event add lists to hyperkitty page using: $django-admin runjob new_lists_from_mailman list server sends messages to list members as well. But nothing happens more. No emails come to hyperkitty, arciver log 0 size. > $ python manage.py runjobs -l shows the lists of the jobs, so seems nothing to add. How exactly did you install Mailman? The document you reference gives alternatives. You don't say exactly what you did. > 2. If I (using Postorius web interface) add footer template to my list under regular message, something strange happens. Mailman stops to send messages for list members. No any entries in the logs. Just Mailman log writes: "unable to connect localhost port 25" and no more explanation. If I delete list's footer template (web interface), mailman starts working again. What is bad here? How to add custom footer? In mailman 2 if was working so good and was easy to setup. It appears that no MTA is listening on localhost port 25. Is your MTA even running? It is extremely unlikely that this has anything to do with adding a termplate in Postorius. You might be better off installing Debian's 'mailman3-full' package <https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=mailman3-full&searchon=names&su…>. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

6 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: Member Issue Discovered

by Alex Schuilenburg

On 22/10/2020 05:59, Abhilash Raj wrote: > Like Mark brought up, there is definitely a big missing feature of User management in Postorius. This future management page would be for Site Admins (Superusers) to manage Users and have the ability to change pretty much everything about users including their addresses, memberships and preferences and also be able to wipe off the users from all the databases if they want to. If there are more features than that which folks think should be a part of this, please feel free to add to it. As it is hopefully implied from the description, it is a big task and needs substantial chunk of time, part of which this hasn't been picked up yet. On this score, from my experience (I manage 3 sites and several hundred lists): * you also need to disable a particular user's ability to change their name and ban them completely from the site (all lists). /You always get some idiot who uses a foul, abusive or inappropriate name/ * you need the ability to delete a thread or user's postings. /On one occasion I had a formal request from a company's lawyers for one user's email to be deleted or content redacted where quoted (information bound by NDA). That was relatively easy to do in mm2 with shell access and I guess I could even use the same method for mm3 if ever asked to do so again (export mbox, delete archives, delete/redact from mbox and import)/ Yes, this is social media territory, but with the EU/UK DPA (data protection act) and record fines being issued, site admins cannot ignore these - even private/subscriber lists are targets (don't get me started...). I like mm3's ability to have several addresses associated with one account, but it needs the same functionality as mm2's find_member, remove_member etc so you don't have to undergo a crash course in python and mm3's shell just to find and remove a particular member from mailing lists etc. Yes, it would be nice to re-use some of those old mm2 scripts built up over the years on mm3. -- Alex

5 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Sender: header

by Mark Sapiro

On 11/30/21 7:51 PM, Philippe B wrote: > MM2 adds the header "Sender: LISTNAME-bounces@DOMAIN" to messages sent to list members. > > That causes Outlook (among others?) to display the "originator" of a message from a REAL POSTER as: > > LISTNAME-bounces@DOMAIN on behalf of REAL POSTER <REAL.POSTER@DOMAIN> > > That phrasing helps identify instantly what list a message is coming from, when that list doesn't use a Subject prefix and when its address isn't in the To: or Cc: headers. (And it turned out that some of our list members were even relying on it to trigger security alerts!) Mailman 2's adding of a Sender: header is an artifact from a time when some MTAs would return bounces to the Sender:. I think yours is the first comment I've seen that actually likes the way Outlook renders it. Most want to know how to prevent that which is why MM 2 has an option to not add it. As far as triggering alerts or filtering is concerned, there are other headers in list mail that can be used for that purpose. > It doesn't look like there's any current MM3 setting that would accomplish the same result, so the question is: How difficult would it be to revive the Sender: header? By revive, do you mean add a feature in MM 3 to add a Sender: header. If so, you could submit a request at `https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues`. If you mean how difficult would it be for you to do it. here's a one line patch that will unconditionally remove any pre-existing Sender: header and add one with the list posting address. ``` --- a/src/mailman/handlers/rfc_2369.py +++ b/src/mailman/handlers/rfc_2369.py @@ -67,6 +67,7 @@ def process(mlist, msg, msgdata): ('List-Owner', '<mailto:{}>'.format(mlist.owner_address)), ('List-Unsubscribe', '<mailto:{}>'.format(mlist.leave_address)), ('List-Subscribe', '<mailto:{}>'.format(mlist.join_address)), + ('Sender', mlist.posting_address), )) if not msgdata.get('reduced_list_headers'): # List-Post: is controlled by a separate attribute, which is somewhat ``` -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: update problems in virtualenv

by Christian H. Kuhn

Hi Mark, thank you for your answer. I did both updates, and haven't seen the warning since. KR QNo Am 05.11.2025 um 01:40 schrieb Mark Sapiro: > On 11/4/25 11:47, Christian H. Kuhn via Mailman-users wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> i followed https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html >> and ran in different problems. Here's the first. >> >> All mailman-web runjobs report: >> >> System check identified some issues: >> >> WARNINGS: >> ?: settings.ACCOUNT_AUTHENTICATION_METHOD is deprecated, use: >> settings.ACCOUNT_LOGIN_METHODS = {'username', 'email'} >> ?: settings.ACCOUNT_EMAIL_REQUIRED is deprecated, use: >> settings.ACCOUNT_SIGNUP_FIELDS = ['email*', 'username*', 'password1*', >> 'password2*'] > > > This is https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-web/-/issues/37 fixed for the > next release. There are two ways to fix this. You can upgrade mailman- > web in your venv by activating the venv and doing > > pip install --upgrade git+https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-web > > Or you can add the following to your settings.py after the imports from > mailman_web.settings.base and mailman_web.settings.mailman > ``` > del ACCOUNT_EMAIL_REQUIRED > del ACCOUNT_AUTHENTICATION_METHOD > ACCOUNT_SIGNUP_FIELDS = ['username*', 'email*', 'password1*', 'password2*'] > ACCOUNT_LOGIN_METHODS = {'email', 'username'} > ``` > >> (venv) mailman@bywater:~/mm/var/data$ pip install --upgrade >> mailman==3.3.10 >> Collecting mailman==3.3.10 > ... >> INFO: pip is looking at multiple versions of mailman to determine >> which version is compatible with other requirements. This could take a >> while. >> ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement >> nntplib; python_version >= "3.13" (from mailman) (from versions: none) >> ERROR: No matching distribution found for nntplib; python_version >= >> "3.13" >> >> standard-nntplib 3.13.0 is installed. > > This is an issue with Mailman 3.3.10 and Python >= 3.13 fixed by > https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/merge_requests/1348 > > Here again if you want to upgrade Mailman core you can do > > pip install --upgrade git+https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman > > to get the latest from gitlab. >

4 months

[MM3-users] Re: HyperKitty/Mailman3 issues

by Florian Schulze

On 22 Nov 2018, at 19:53, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 11/22/18 2:58 AM, Florian Schulze wrote: >> Hi! >> >> I tried setting up Scheduled Tasks as described in >> <http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-web.html#scheduled-tasks-required> >> >> but the "runjobs" command can't be found. I see the hyperkitty and >> mailman commands when using "help". > > > Does "help" show a list under [django_extensions] including runjob and > runjobs? > > Is 'django-extensions' in the list of INSTALLED_APPS in your Django > settings? That was the issue. Thanks! >> The "qcluster" service is working. >> >> Using Django 2.1.1 and HyperKitty 1.2.1. >> >> Maybe related to that, I have two issues with archives. >> >> 1. Changing the archiving setting in the Web-UI to something else >> than >> public seems to have no effect. The already archived messages are >> still >> accessible in public. > > > This is related. It is one of the "daily" jobs that updates this. Note > that changing to "private" will require login after the "daily" jobs > run, but changing to "do not archive" will leave the existing archive > accessible. After manually running the daily job, the archive is now private. >> 2. Related to 1., how can I remove a list archive without affecting >> other lists? > > > There's no easy way. For the "prototype" archiver, the archives for a > list are in var/archives/prototype/listname(a)example.com/ and that > directory can be removed, but that doesn't affect HyperKitty. > HyperKitty's archives are in the Mailman database and multiple tables > are involved. > > One could try just removing the row for the list from the > hyperkitty_mailinglist table. That may render the list's archive > inaccessible via the web UI, but I have no idea what would be broken > by > doing this. I hope this will be added at some point. For now I have the archive set to private. Thanks again for the pointers! Regards, Florian Schulze

7 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman sends Welcome emails, but does not send [List] postings emails

by Mark Sapiro

On 6/6/23 07:58, Nelson Strother wrote: > > No errors are being recorded in the mailman log files. This is GNU > Mailman 3.3.8 via `pip install mailman` on Debian 5.10.179-1 > (2023-05-12) running on a shared system where VMware gives this server > enough cycles that `mailman start` and `mailman stop` each consume from > 20 minutes to an hour of wall clock time, so I do not issue those > commands recreationally, attempting to keep the system available for > users. What should I do to help understand the cause for these failures? If a runner has died, its death and a reason should be logged in Mailman's var/logs/mailman.log with a message similar to Master detected subprocess exit (pid: 8617, why: SIGNAL 15, class: in, slice: 1/1) This may not be the case if the runner is killed by the OS for an out of memory or similar reason. For this, look in syslog. `mailman stop` can take a long time because it is waiting for a runner to stop. See https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/255 but that issue was fixed long ago. I don't understand why `mailman start` would take more time than `mailman restart`. In fact, `mailman restart` effectively does `stop` and `start`, but only for those runners which are running. Since you seem to frequently have missing runners, I suspect something like an OOM condition is causing the OS to kill them. Although, I wonder if you are correctly interpreting the logs. While the absence of the `retry`, `task`, `nntp` and `archive` runners might not be noticed except for messages not being archived, if either the `in` or `pipeline` runner is not running, no list posts will be processed. > Would not it be helpful for this limitation of restart to be included in: > mailman restart --help > with a suggestion to use `mailman stop` and `mailman start` instead? I have just filed https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/1082 for this. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: ARC issues

by David Krantz

On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 4:45 PM Stephen J. Turnbull <turnbull.stephen.fw(a)u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote: > Doesn't Postfix do ARC yet? :-( rspamd seems to be recommended by a > couple of Linux distros, supports the milter interface that Postfix > uses to call out to 3rd party processes, and the website looks good. > See rspamd.com. That said, if you want to use Mailman's support... To me, it seems easier to use Mailman's implementation if it is possible. Rspamd seems very nice as an alternative if I find time to substitute my spamassassin, greylister and, I guess, opendkim setup. As the feature of rspamd set is large with a web UI it probably is as time consuming to set up as mailman, so I'd rather not if I can avoid it. When I migrate to another server in due time it seems interesting. > Our support doesn't have issues that I know of. You can check the > issue tracker: https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues. On second > thought, don't bother. I did and "ARC" picks up scads of irrelevant > junk, "authenticated received chain" nothing, and a couple of other > tries don't pick up anything useful either. > > > I run the latest release of mailman (3.3.0 of core) on Python 3.7.6 > > and I use postfix as MTA. > > I haven't looked at ARC in some months, so it's possible that our > current implementation is out of date with best current practice. > However, in a quick scan I see no difference in RFC 8617 > vs. ID-ARC-23, so I don't know what might have changed there. > > Are the messages being refused by those sites because of the ARC > errors, or are they being delivered anyway? We probably need to see > the message as received by Mailman, the message as emitted by Mailman, > and the message as received at the validating site to have a hope of > diagnosing this. So far, they are delivered. Probably for the same reason that my messages are accepted without ARC. IPs with good reputation and a generally well-behaved setup. > The things that I can see from the data you've provided that might be > related are > > 1. If it's just the body hash that's a problem, there may be one or > more MXes that convert Content-Transfer-Encoding between your > Mailman and the receiving sites. That would be easy to check if > you have the messages as sent and as received. I do not think they do, but I'll examine that. My DKIM signing works just fine but postfix might have changed something before opendkim get the message. I'll have to find a way to capture the sent message leaving mailman before it enters postfix. > 2. You have an awfully aggressive list of signed header fields. In > particular, the Resent-* fields are treated as trace fields: there > may be multiple instances of each. I don't understand the > semantics of DKIM/ARC signing for those headers very well, but > it's something that I would think easy to mess up. You might try > deleting those. > > You are supposed to sign any existing DKIM-Signature fields, but > that's not in the list. I just used the default list of fields from the Mailman documentation. Now I did try a shorter list of fields but that did not help. > 3. The ARC RFC 8617 says that an ARC Sealer must add any > DKIM-Signature *before* ARC sealing. I suppose this could be a > problem, since our ARC implementation doesn't DKIM sign. (On the > other hand, I don't see how it would be a problem, since any MX > along the way might add a DKIM signature, and you're not signing > DKIM-Signature according to your list of signed fields.) It would be a problem if I'd add the DKIM fields to the field list of course. I see another potential problem with that list in that it includes fields that are not present, I had understood it as that would fail if a field is missing. > It would be helpful if instead of quoting small parts of error > messages, you gave us the entire body of a delivery status > notification message or the entire MTA log. If there's stuff > (domains, mailboxes, IP addresses) you want to redact, feel free, just > make sure that it's obvious what was redacted. I can do that. For that I will have to re-run my test which I do not have time for today, alas. It is easier to me to send an entire delivered message (with some domains and IPs redacted). I'll add such an example at the bottom of this mail as it gets a bit unwieldy. > I will check our implementation, principally to make sure that the > authentication results used are computed on the raw incoming message > and the ARC sealing is done on the raw outgoing message after all > other message modifications are done. I will also see if I can > conjure up tests that test the site's MTA(s) as well as just our > implementation, as we currently test our implementation using static > data from the ARC implementation we use (ie, we ARC-process a given > message and then do a byte-by-byte comparison on an allegedly correct > ARC-Sealed version of the same). Is there any good tool to verify an ARC signature? I could of course set another list as a subscriber to feed the result back to OpenDKIM and Mailman-ARC to see what happens but that is a bit convoluted. > Sorry I can't give more precise help. Maybe something here will be of > use. Of much use as it got me thinking, if nothing else. // David Delivered-To: gazorg(a)gmail.com Received: by 2002:ab3:6e8a:0:0:0:0:0 with SMTP id d10csp504094ltp; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 08:27:23 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy2N4DctBE7sJ5iPliD4tFTap/Ag38FlQknzbgepRIeBhGi4BkvVeX+otJg+Q8EqS3L12L0 X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:36d:: with SMTP id s13mr8975006edw.304.1582993643529; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 08:27:23 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: <test-bounces(a)example2.com> Received: from lists.example1.com (lists.example1.com. [192.168.0.1redactedIP]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q7si4234768edn.147.2020.02.29.08.27.23 for <gazorg(a)gmail.com> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 29 Feb 2020 08:27:23 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of test-bounces(a)example2.com designates 192.168.0.1redactedIP as permitted sender) client-ip=192.168.0.1redactedIP; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=(a)example2.com header.s=dkim header.b=aUkUFDX3; arc=fail (body hash mismatch); spf=pass (google.com: domain of test-bounces(a)example2.com designates 192.168.0.1redactedIP as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=test-bounces(a)example2.com Received: from lists.example1.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lists.example1.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37B37405C6; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 16:27:23 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=example2.com; s=dkim; t=1582993643; bh=QtvH55+E9IsKYbQtbq3Ctq/SJNg1OC15t8DzRRa/xtM=; h=Date:To:Subject:List-Id:List-Help:List-Post:List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe:From:Reply-To:From; b=aUkUFDX3gmRAu4yffKt1a93D0zQ5SHOVM9IBgn9Eds02d99fTpDPGPrLURXm5nMsm 5Czjhyv12hwt/sDcqjkgot7XNZgpYu+ygeNhfFr/fNDR3I+/OJhQJFl7pGFH6/LkpI eZqCZuGFTTZjLU5/kPZ3Bxul9NsWUpFoxkoDj8bumbVnkAqBpFNqKF7vojUs/0A8lU MNZRRpvFzdpJPrMOWq2ZW/SfLZJaXJEKQPBX+cxtLTadwRooG4tJ58hGbjuk5qIlHH 0rohDoyI6zFO1IZLUub+LltmX8Z9CjGyfOp7FJeXs4i/F2Y0NtZfdATjGr9ODWYsxl Do7WWaCt/IagQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; cv=none; a=rsa-sha256; d=example1.com; s=dkim; t=1582993642; b=gcSal3MqawEf89KBCDi3s7mNkPZfJhN7XJ0SRlaB6fTT1LSVbEDb6JXa0cM4owpyvPPWU VG6/bOqHJeuACWqGQ6/wnXJCuRCJJkKzv0FVJCg61xfXcSUtKKCeLFarZtx59WUGxkkmCqI oDJufbsX56AYM0awVkHn9xu+eezG87Q= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=example1.com; s=dkim; t=1582993642; h=from : sender : reply-to : subject : date : message-id : to : cc : mime-version : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : content-id : content-description : resent-date : resent-from : resent-sender : resent-to : resent-cc : resent-message-id : in-reply-to : references : list-id : list-help : list-unsubscribe : list-subscribe : list-post : list-owner : list-archive; bh=Dphqgp/+wTnNNbrrDg3NfnpjXIJyK09lbeEWp6UaizQ=; b=W3oTWN8gDlllat7/QAXOe0lQk6IHDhIhwgu4KOjkFN8nOdRQUbnv0dt9LoZt2NrjY20wj g1IKXDuyfHitDwSqloxrYl8woZji+qy2fYyws4ATmzHckqBgfGQbDSxu3Lu3iaGf8cjEy11 Mj+rUGOg0sWoXXNCqjvMGMU3SWhQBRs= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; example1.com; dkim=pass header.d=example3.com header.i=(a)example3.com header.b="RgU2p/NV"; dkim-atps=neutral; arc=none; dmarc=none Authentication-Results: example1.com; dkim=pass header.d=example3.com header.i=(a)example3.com header.b="RgU2p/NV"; dkim-atps=neutral; arc=none; dmarc=none Received: from mail-lj1-f180.google.com (mail-lj1-f180.google.com [209.85.208.180]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.example1.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 720B9405C5 for <test(a)example2.com>; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 16:27:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lj1-f180.google.com with SMTP id q23so6847929ljm.4 for <test(a)example2.com>; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 08:27:20 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Dphqgp/+wTnNNbrrDg3NfnpjXIJyK09lbeEWp6UaizQ=; b=VK+DeP8PfxjHWKPnE/VeVQCBOfi7xubKqXJ+qIokd8osR8zolWOQoljLgKgjmllrYi ZjRTWt4/f9imHKTtu1V+8YVdQ/yfAQ1LR9aYxTnBS0Baz9BV22ghXOuTAgm77uPOPZnQ BWRG6W01Fwb5VjlGMSQrn/+nQa5m+gBjKnF4F34HqtM3c0Igx9459lL++O3CC0M4vjnb sg0JVmQbbWu1anXQRnx2Ghy8/tkcKuJVDE9BhTXmMQCjJSzwRvLp7jHTlNk1tXW11TQ5 ZBnzgg+oN5GcgudjSMnBhstsCUqvEQttV5FOj1gNBV+EOw0B+b+A4iLGyUn/c+bbrVwi HXjg== X-Gm-Message-State: ANhLgQ0MEeEPN51okIGKQNjjbGpV/RHmPT8h47RTCG9U5MwsQWT9UZHg XzxoNg3sC2PYicdeBLor1wLThcLqWerLvsxOW5jMIm6SrSU= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:7d07:: with SMTP id y7mr5916044ljc.7.1582993639657; Sat, 29 Feb 2020 08:27:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 17:27:08 +0100 Message-ID: <CAFstx=9nwFZeaE_cZ+69YAGY-cCE_6maP62A7X0VMTBC6Mwhqg(a)mail.gmail.com> To: test(a)example2.com X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.11 (lists.example1.com [192.168.0.1redactedIP]); Sat, 29 Feb 2020 16:27:20 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: inspected by milter-greylist-4.5.11 (lists.example1.com [192.168.0.1redactedIP]); Sat, 29 Feb 2020 16:27:20 +0000 (UTC) for IP:'209.85.208.180' DOMAIN:'mail-lj1-f180.google.com' HELO:'mail-lj1-f180.google.com' FROM:'david(a)example3.com' RCPT:'' X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on lists.example1.com Message-ID-Hash: 2WKWCRI6GNTHTKGUKXSV3QI7JSG4BCCS X-Message-ID-Hash: 2WKWCRI6GNTHTKGUKXSV3QI7JSG4BCCS X-MailFrom: david(a)example3.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.0 Precedence: list Subject: [Test] ARC-test med aktiverad modul List-Id: Test for mail setup <test.example2.com> List-Help: <mailto:test-request@example2.com?subject=help> List-Post: <mailto:test@example2.com> List-Subscribe: <mailto:test-join@example2.com> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:test-leave@example2.com> From: David Krantz via Test <test(a)example2.com> Reply-To: David Krantz <david(a)example3.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.11 (lists.example1.com [192.168.0.1redactedIP]); Sat, 29 Feb 2020 16:27:23 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: inspected by milter-greylist-4.5.11 (lists.example1.com [192.168.0.1redactedIP]); Sat, 29 Feb 2020 16:27:23 +0000 (UTC) for IP:'127.0.0.1' DOMAIN:'localhost' HELO:'lists.example1.com' FROM:'test-bounces(a)example2.com' RCPT:'' RGV0IGjDpHIga2Fuc2tlIGZ1bmthci4gVmkgZsOlciBzZS4NCg0KLy8gREF2aWQKX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KVGVzdGdhbmcgbWFpbGluZyBs aXN0CnRlc3RnYW5nQGtsYW1nYW5nZXQuc2UKaHR0cHM6Ly9saXN0cy56ZXJvdGguc2UvbWFpbG1h bjMvbGlzdHMvdGVzdGdhbmcua2xhbWdhbmdldC5zZS8K

6 years

[MM3-users] Re: Problems configuring hyperkitty

by Mark Sapiro

On 11/18/24 09:29, Alain D D Williams wrote: > > I am running Debian 12 - Bookworm and have installed the Debian packages. The > database is Mysql. This is not a virtualenv setup. There is no documentation in > the hyperkitty package so I am following: > > https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/hyperkitty/en/latest/install.html The primary support resource for Debian packages is Debian. See https://wiki.list.org/x/12812344 > I read the following: > > "The database can be created with the following command: > > django-admin migrate --pythonpath example_project --settings settings > " > > I assume that that will create some database tables. Hopefully this will have > been done by installing package python3-mailman-hyperkitty. > > • What database & tables will that be ? It would be really useful to be told so > that I can check. The database is configured in the DATABASES setting in your Django settings. The HyperKitty tables all have names beginning with `hyperkitty_`. > • The config file is: /etc/mailman3/mailman-hyperkitty.cfg > This does not contain any comment about databases. Where does hyperkitty get > its database parameters from ? Django, see above. > • I have several different maildomains each with several lists. Some lists in > different domains have the same name. Do I need a different > example_project/settings.py for each domain, if so what changes ? I can't really speak to Debian, but you should be using the Django settings provided as part of Django's mailman-web package, not the ones in hyperkitty/example_project/settings.py as those don't include settings necessary for Postorius. > One of the next things that I will need to do is to import archives from > mailman2. How does the command below change for the different domains ? > > django-admin hyperkitty_import --pythonpath example_project --settings settings -l ADDRESS mbox_file [mbox_file ...] In the `-l ADDRESS` argument the ADDRESS is the fully qualified list address and includes the domain. > > Is there some better documentation that I have failed to find ? Ask Debian. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

1 year, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: How to turn off Emergency Moderation for imported MM2 lists?

by Abhilash Raj

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, at 6:12 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Mark Sapiro wrote: > > On 7/28/20 5:40 AM, Brian Carpenter wrote: > > > > > > This is the client that I asking about in my post. > > > She said what I > > > did, did not work. This is what I did: > > > > > > Get into a venv as user mailman > > > > > > #mailman shell > > > from mailman.model.mailinglist import MailingList > > > mlist = MailingList('listname(a)listdomain.org') > > > mlist.emergency = False > > > commit() > > > ctrl-d (just to be on the safe side) > > I half understand why this didn't work. Instantiating the list via > ``` > from mailman.model.mailinglist import MailingList > mlist = MailingList('listname(a)listdomain.org') > ``` > for some reason (that's the half I don't understand) does not get the > actual list object so changes you make to it don't affect the actual > list. It is because when you simply instantiate that class, it will create a new model instance, that you would need to persist by adding to database using `store.add(mlist)`. If you instead want to read that instance from database, you have to do `store.query()`, which is what the `.get()` method of IListManager does. > In `mailman shell` you need to do > ``` > mlist = getUtility(IListManager).get('listname(a)listdomain.org') > ``` > `getUtility` and `IListManager` are in the namespace in `mailman > shell`, but outside of that, e.g. just in `python` in your virtualenv, > you also need > ``` > from mailman.interfaces.listmanager import IListManager > from zope.component import getUtility > ``` > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

5 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: spanish localization

by Victoriano Giralt

On Sat, 2021-02-13 at 17:04 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > Your English is fine, it was just my lack of imagination: on February > 12, I couldn't conceive of February 3 being even a little "old"! I was not your imagination, it was confussion inserted in the line between brain and fingers and I meant .po and wrote .mo > More important, as long as the .mo file is more recent than the .po > file, that's the best the release manager can do. I haven't been > involved in the release process, so I can't swear to it personally, > but if Mark says that new translations generate a merge request > automatically, and we make sure that the translations are merged > before release, I believe him. That's optimal as far I am concerned. But, it seems something did not go well :-( > Perhaps some enterprising soul would be willing to automate > production of pip'able packages containing only new translations, but > without that, I don't see how to beat our current procedures. (I > wouldn't want to use such a thing, though, I'd be too afraid that one > day all the translations would be replaced with Dril tweets!) Fully agreed. I first thought of "language chanpions" that could take care of syncing the .po files from Weblate to the replease repository. But then, that involves human availability, which is not an abundant asset in open source projects. Then, my brains went into "crazy mode", why do notuse the power of Python and the net. Maybe we can get someone (GSoC student) to write code that, given a .po file uses Google translation to check that the resulting string in the target language means more or less the same as the original English string on the .po file? Crazy-tinking-ly, Victoriano. -- Victoriano Giralt Innovation Director Digital Transformation Vicerectorate University of Malaga +34952131415 SPAIN ================================================================== Note: signature.asc is the electronic signature of present message A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure ? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email ?

5 years

[MM3-users] Re: Held messages not delivered after approval

by Odhiambo Washington

On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 5:28 PM Stephan Krinetzki < krinetzki(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de> wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm running into an issue with Mailman 3. Mails sent to a list are being > held due to moderation settings — which is expected — but after approving > them, they are not delivered to list members. > > The message does not end up in the shunt queue, and nothing is delivered. > > Here's what I see in the Mailman log: > > Jul 30 16:12:23 2025 (213300) HOLD: mm(a)lists.example.com post from > sender(a)sub.example.com held, message-id=< > 20250730141221.5VVrn%sender(a)sub.example.com>: The message is not from a > list member > Jul 30 16:12:39 2025 (213338) held message approved, message-id: < > 20250730141221.5VVrn%sender(a)sub.example.com> > > In the mail log, I only see the message arriving — there's no sign of it > being sent out. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This here does not make sense. 1. You approve/UNHOLD the message - what then do you see in /opt/mailman/mm/var/logs/smtp.log? 2. The mail is handed over to your MTA, and you see evidence of that in mail.log, but it is not sent out. Doesn't that mean you have the mails in the queue? > Any ideas on what could be going wrong or where else I should look? > What is the output from running the `mailq` command? If the post has not reached the subscribers, then I suppose the emails are stuck in the Postfix queue for some reason. > Mailman Core-Version GNU Mailman 3.3.10 (Tom Sawyer) > Mailman Core API-Version 3.1 > Mailman Core Python-Version 3.11.11 (main, Jun 20 2025, 00:00:00) [GCC > 11.5.0 20240719 (Red Hat 11.5.0-5)] > > OS: Rocky 9 with Postfix MTA, installed as venv > Do you know if the list has been working, or is this a new install? -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 In an Internet failure case, the #1 suspect is a constant: DNS. "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]

7 months

[MM3-users] Re: add custom styles to postorius list creation menu

by mhazan＠mandint.org

Le 2022-05-02 17:32, Mark Sapiro a écrit : > On 5/2/22 06:39, Michael Hazan wrote: >> Hello, >> >> When creating a list via postorius, i can see 3 style appear >> (announce, discussion, private). Is it possible to either create a new >> style and add it to that list or modify one of those style ? > > > See this thread > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/… > > Thanks i will look into setting up that plugin, hopefully an easier way to do that can make it's way to the default install. >> Also, coming from mailman2, you could directly set the members post >> moderation action when subscribing, now you can only do it via the >> user menu, is there a way to automate this in mm3 ? > > > I don't understand what you mean here. In MM 2.1 a member had only one > setting - moderated yes or no and if moderated there was a list > setting for the moderation action. There was also a list setting for > whether new members were moderated by default. How were you setting > the new member's moderation when subscribing? > > You are correct that when subscribing a new member, the member gets > the default action for members and different action has to be set in a > separate operation. I don't think this is significantly different from > MM 2.1. Also, can you describe what you mean by "automate this". in MM2.1, if you set the list to moderated and default action to hold posting, you can set a some member to be un-moderated (mod bit off) to automatically allow their posting. In the web interface of MM2.1 there is a checkbox with moderated bit on/off on the member list itself, in the postorius interface for MM3 you have to open each members settings page to access that. For automation, as list owner, upon registering a member (via mass subscription) the possibility to change that ? also the me too/dupe setting for example. Thanks

3 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Settings for prevention of spam obfuscation

by Richard Rosner

Well, I don't want to give users additional information, just rectify the manipulated information. And yes, while there may be edge cases where these bad practices do come in handy, but the vast majority of mails (at least from what I can tell from my lists) is either spammers or unnecessary abuse of features. I can't tell if it's because Microsoft sets bad defaults for Outlook or admins hired are incompetent and the competent ones either retire or quit, but there's just too much going on in mails that's just nonsense. E.g. encoding all text - including stuff like the subject - with base64 is just ridiculous, when what was sent is only plain text that uses a small subset of UTF-8 characters. And that's just a very common bad practice and far from the only one. And sure, competent spammers may be able to evade much more, I've seen several emails that must have had manipulated sender data, but that could only be concluded from context, not from analyzing the headers. But thankfully most spammers are far from competent, so spam filters can easily detect far over 50 % of the spam. It's only the slightly more competent spammers that use tactics abused by many non-spammers that give me a headache. I could easily crank up the spam points for various indications, so there would be pretty much no spam left in the false negative category. But sadly, I know from experience that this will lead to a much larger amount of false positives. For the most common senders that won't be sending spammers, I already created whitelisting rules, but that's about it. And until someone can create an ML model that's not gobbling up resources for training and that doesn't need thousands of emails to train with, there's only so much you can do. While DKIM and DMARC are great, they are useless when the vast majority of senders don't have any DKIM signatures. For ARC it's not as uncommon to be present, but the situation isn't that much better.

2 years

[MM3-users] Re: Uncaught runner exception

by Wolfgang Bock

Hello Mark, thanks for your hint. Postfix is runnig as mta on my machine. I tested port 25 with swaks ->mail to user on server: localhost port 25 -> everything fine Mailman is configured with localhost for incoming and outgoing mails. After stopping mailman3, deleting all files in the queue directories, restart mailman3 I sent a test-mail /var/log/mailman3/mailman.log Apr 07 12:08:23 2020 (28198) Master started Apr 07 12:08:24 2020 (28206) out runner started. Apr 07 12:08:24 2020 (28202) command runner started. Apr 07 12:08:24 2020 (28203) in runner started. Apr 07 12:08:24 2020 (28200) archive runner started. Apr 07 12:08:24 2020 (28201) bounces runner started. Apr 07 12:08:24 2020 (28210) retry runner started. Apr 07 12:08:25 2020 (28208) rest runner started. Apr 07 12:08:25 2020 (28212) digest runner started. Apr 07 12:08:25 2020 (28205) nntp runner started. Apr 07 12:08:26 2020 (28211) virgin runner started. Apr 07 12:08:26 2020 (28207) pipeline runner started. Apr 07 12:08:26 2020 (28204) lmtp runner started. Apr 07 12:09:19 2020 (28203) ACCEPT: <000f01d60cc4$96c9a8d0$c45cfa70$@[domain]> Apr 07 12:09:21 2020 (28206) Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on port 25 I have no idea what to do for solving my problems. Regards from Hamburg Wolfgang -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> Gesendet: Montag, 6. April 2020 23:50 An: Wolfgang Bock <mailinglisten(a)wbock.de> Betreff: Re: [MM3-users] Re: Uncaught runner exception On 4/6/20 2:44 PM, Wolfgang Bock via Mailman-users wrote: > Thank you Steven for your reply! > > I Set smtp_server to port 25 and got a "Cannot connect ro SMTP Server > on port 25", the former error message didn't show again. > > As I see port 25 is reseved for postfix. So I have to fiddle out how > mailman3 could also use this port for sending mails out. .... You need an MTA for Mailman to deliver its mail to. Normally this will be Postfix, sendmail, Exim, etc running on localhost and listening on port 25. Do you have such an MTA running on localhost? Note, Mailman does not directly send mail to end recipients. It only delivers mail to an outgoing MTA. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman3 doesn't send Mails to users (Debian12 with Plesk)

by Odhiambo Washington

On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 2:34 PM marcus--- via Mailman-users < mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> wrote: > Hello, > > i already send this question to the plesk-forum but it seems that nobody > there can help me :-( > > After updating from Debian 10 to 11 to 12, I now have mailman3 running on > my server > I then converted all lists from Mailman2 to Mailman3 following the > instructions from mailman. > I can access it via the web interface, manage everything etc. > When I register on the web interface, I also receive the corresponding > mails from Mailman (forgotten password...) > Mails are also arriving, at least mails that are not allowed go into the > mails to be approved. > > The problem, however, is that it does not send out any mails, nor do they > appear in the archive. > > When I look in the Mailman-Log I find: > > May 16 01:44:55 2024 (6833) Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on > port 25 > May 16 01:48:15 2024 (61252) error opening connection to nntp_host: > localhost > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Why is it talking about NNTP_HOST here? > [Errno 111] Connection refused > May 16 01:48:15 2024 (61252) NNTP error for list > vereinsmitglieder(a)ludothek.de: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Also here! > [Errno 111] Connection refused > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is okay anyway, since we do not need nntp anyways. The configuration of Mailman.cfg looks like this: > > incoming: mailman.mta.postfix.LMTP > outgoing: mailman.mta.deliver.deliver > smtp_host: localhost > smtp_port: 25 > smtp_user: > smtp_pass: > lmtp_host: 127.0.0.1 > lmtp_port: 8024 > So I assume you followed some other guide to install your MM3. You did not follow https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html. Is that right? If you used the above (recommended) method of installation, you'd end up with mailman.cfg whose contents of the [mta] section would look different from what you've shown above. Also, you'd have ended up with the following directory and files: ``` odhiambo@lists:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data$ pwd /opt/mailman/mm/var/data odhiambo@lists:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data$ ls -al total 100 drwxr-xr-x 2 mailman mailman 4096 Mar 16 00:11 . drwxr-xr-x 12 mailman mailman 4096 Mar 15 04:50 .. -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 359 Mar 16 00:11 postfix_domains -rw-r----- 1 mailman mailman 12288 Mar 16 00:11 postfix_domains.db -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 26481 Mar 16 00:11 postfix_lmtp -rw-r----- 1 mailman mailman 49152 Mar 16 00:11 postfix_lmtp.db odhiambo@lists:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data$ ``` Also, you'd have ended with the following (or equivalent) in your /etc/postfix/main.cf: ``` transport_maps = hash:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data/postfix_lmtp local_recipient_maps = hash:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data/postfix_lmtp relay_domains = hash:/opt/mailman/mm/var/data/postfix_domains ``` For now, you should find where these files are and point your Postfix to them and that may solve your problem. I am no Postfix Admin and I don't know nada about Plesk. > In Mailman manuals I find hints that the transport routes have to be added > to the Postfix-config. Doesn't Debian/Plesk do this automatically? > There is only one DEFINITIVE manual for Mailman3 and it is https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html. It doesn't mention Plesk or cPanel :-) > Does anyone else have an idea what I need to change to get my mails out? > Yes. As I have detailed above, sin permissions issues. I did the conversion from mailman2 to mailman3 with root because it didn't > work with "sudo -u list "m, but the files stored in the file system all > belong to list, so that shouldn't be the problem. > Looks like a problem with the HOWTO that you followed. Here we're happier to help when you follow OUR HOWTO <https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html> above. We're not quite enthusiastic when you follow other HOWTOs out there. Good luck! -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 In an Internet failure case, the #1 suspect is a constant: DNS. "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]

1 year, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Show number of subscribers

by Abhilash Raj

On Tue, Jul 2, 2019, at 6:25 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > andrew.bernard(a)gmail.com writes: > > > Would there be a way to show the number of subscribers to a list in > > the web UI? > > Currently the answer evidently is no. I'm not sure why Mark is > pessimistic (except that I don't see hordes of list owners breaking > down our doors for this feature), because I don't see why it couldn't > be added. HyperKitty already imports mailmanclient, so it can query > the list. If you want to pursue this, you should file an RFE in the > tracker, but I won't promise it will be very high priority, and it > does mean closer integration with core than we've had so far, so there > might be some unease from the developers. (I don't see why there > would be an issue, except for the slight increase in maintenance > burden.) Hyperkitty today aims to be functional without Core, what that means is that it can be used (with the exception of Replying/Posting via Web UI) while the Core is down/unavailable. While it isn't impossible, it would be a change of behavior compared to how it functions today. Although, if it is okay to have a value that is at max 24hr stale, Hyperkitty can pull the number of subscribers from the API daily with its routine job which pulls other information. Although, I'd like that process to be more realtime, but I haven't figured out a great way to do that yet. > On the other hand, we do have a bunch of students and others > interested who were attracted by Summer of Code and Season of Docs, > and one of them might find this an interesting task. It's not an > introductory project, but it looks straightforward to me, with > well-defined requirements. > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

6 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: New Mailman Releases

by Abhilash Raj

On 10/26/22 12:32, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 8:44 AM Abhilash Raj <maxking(a)asynchronous.in > <mailto:maxking@asynchronous.in>> wrote: > > Hi, > > I am pleased to announce several new releases for GNU Mailman project. > > 1. Mailman Core 3.3.6 [1] > 2. Postorius 1.3.7 [2] > 3. Hyperkitty 1.3.6 [3] > 4. Mailmanclient 3.3.4 [4] > 5. Django-mailman3 1.3.8 [5] > > All the releases are published to PyPI and you can find links to all > the > PyPI projects: > > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/ > <https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/> > > A full list of changelogs are available below: > > [1]: > https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/NEWS.… <https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/NEWS.…> > [2]: > https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/postorius/en/latest/news.html#section-2 <https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/postorius/en/latest/news.html#section-2> > -- Something weird is going on with the page missing the bullets. > [3]: > https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/hyperkitty/en/latest/news.html#news-1-3-6 <https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/hyperkitty/en/latest/news.html#news-1-3-6> > [4]: > https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailmanclient/en/latest/src/mailmanclien… <https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailmanclient/en/latest/src/mailmanclien…> > [5]: > https://gitlab.com/mailman/django-mailman3/-/blob/master/README.rst > <https://gitlab.com/mailman/django-mailman3/-/blob/master/README.rst> > > > Finally, the minimum Python version required is 3.7 although, 3.9 is > recommended if you are doing a new install for longest support. 3.10 is > supported for Django apps, but Mailman Core is missing that due to one > of the core dependencies not support 3.10 yet (aiosmtpd). > > > > Hello @Abhilash Raj <mailto:maxking@asynchronous.in> > > Thank you and the whole MM3 team for all the free work you do to make us > have mailing lists :) > > I have a question regarding the Python version. > I have a very recent installation of MM3, via the Virtual Environment > method, running smoothly - so far. > The Python version that got installed is 3.10.6 > > wash@lists:~$ sudo su - mailman > (venv) mailman@lists:~$ which python > /opt/mailman/mm/venv/bin/python > (venv) mailman@lists:~$ /opt/mailman/mm/venv/bin/python -V > Python 3.10.6 > (venv) mailman@lists:~$ mailma > mailmail3 mailman > (venv) mailman@lists:~$ mailman --version > GNU Mailman 3.3.5 (Tom Sawyer) > (venv) mailman@lists:~$ > > 1. What does the incompatibility with Python-3.10 portend for my setup > and anyone else with Python-3.10? The bug in aiosmtpd is a bit weird and has to do with how the test cases in aiosmtpd and Python 3.10 changes interact with SSL. For the intents and purposes of Mailman, we don't use SSL for the communication between MTA and aiosmtpd, so there _shouldn't_ be any issuer with your setup. Ideally, `pip` shouldn't have allowed you to install aiosmtpd in a Python venv with 3.10, but that depends on which version of pip you are using since the newer versions have better support for such management. > 2. Is it possible to downgrade the Python in a Venv down to 3.9 without > breaking the installation? You can keep the current installation running and create a 2nd installation by simply creating a 2nd venv with 3.9. Something like, `/opt/mailman/mm/venv-3.9/`. You can install things into that venv and when you are done and ready to switch, you can update all the paths in various places to use update 'venv-3.9' instead of 'venv'. In case you encounter any issues, you can always revert back to older 'venv' in the paths wherever the are needed and bring back the old install. Venvs are good for multiple installs so you can switch back and forth pretty easily. > > And finally, is there documentation/procedure to upgrade a VENV install > in this case? You don't want to upgrade venv is what i've heard, you should always create a new one if you are bumping python versions. If you are just upgrading packages in the existing venv, then you can follow: https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/upgrade-3.2.html -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

3 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Fwd: [Django] ERROR (EXTERNAL IP): Internal Server Error: /archives/search

by Odhiambo Washington

On Sat, Jan 28, 2023 at 10:48 PM Stephen J. Turnbull < stephenjturnbull(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Odhiambo Washington writes: > > > from mailman_web.settings.base import * > > from mailman_web.settings.mailman import * > > I think just putting these as close to the top as possible, and > including a comment (or two) saying that this is importing defaults > that can be overridden by any assignment made later in the file is > about as far as we can go for explaining. If you don't know how > Python imports work, just ask about the specific case. There's quite > a bit of potential complexity hiding in those '.'s; much more > complicated than the '/'s in a file system path. Trying to explain > the ins and outs of the Python import system is way beyond the scope > of Mailman docs. > > > [At first instance, it is not obvious that mailman_web.settings.base > > and mailman_web.settings.mailman are actually paths in Python - > > which magically translates to mailman_web/settings/base.py and > > mailman_web/settings/mailman.py] > > You shouldn't have to know that, it doesn't help with the bigger > problem of finding mailman_web, and any simple explanation might turn > out not to be true in your installation. This is why I prefer flat > files for end-user configuration, even if they get pretty big. I > understand why developers do stuff like this, but it's not "naive > user"-friendly. > > > For example, my mind all along has been tuned to having a > settings_local.py > > for overriding the settings.py. > > Yes, and that is a better system unless our intent is to *hide* > settings from the user, in my opinion. I don't see why you chose to > deviate from it. Either way you have to integrate settings you have > changed with settings the developers have changed. It's easier if you > stick with the system you're most familiar with. > > > However, with this particular documentation, it would appear that > > everything is intended to just go into /etc/mailman3/settings.py. > > > > Is it possible to modify the documentation > > Which documentation? We can modify our own, but that's a pretty big > task because we have several different systems for managing config > files over the last five or ten years. We shouldn't mandate any > particular organization because they all still work, and people who > use older setups shouldn't have to do without our docs. And we can't > do anything about out-of-date mirrors or HOWTOs by random admins on > the web. > > > and that those settings are in what file(s) ? > > But we don't know where those files are. If you use a venv install, > they're almost certainly in > $MAILMAN_HOME/venv/lib/python3.N/site-packages/mailman_web/settings/, > but otherwise the mailman_web/settings part could be anywhere on > Python's search path. And on modern systems unless you have a > dedicated host with everything installed at once, you're likely to > have 3 or more Pythons installed (Python 2.7, and two or more Python > 3s). So tools like find and grep -l are often more confusing than > enlightening. > > I think if you get confused, the most efficient solution is to just > ask. If Mark or I or whoever directs you to check out the defaults, > and you can't find them, ask again. > > Steve > All the above noted, and well-received. I only decided to experiment with this particular documentation because it is the *OFFICIAL* one. And to be honest, I am yet to wrap my head around everything, so I still have a lot of questions in my head. Will be seeing you often :) -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-)

3 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Dist. List forwarding and DMARC Reject circumvention. Will this pattern work?

by Odhiambo Washington

On Sun, Aug 25, 2024 at 4:32 PM <titan160(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > I would be grateful if someone could vet and verify (or guide otherwise) > the following pattern please. > > With the major mail vendors move to DMARC - Full Reject, I have a small > challenge. > > - We have a number of 365 Distribution List addresses. > - These lists accept email from anyone and, currently, then forward those > emails onto list members. > - List members, however, are NOT necessarily email addresses within the > list's mail domain. They might be outlook.com, Gmail, yahoo, Hotmail, > username(a)local.ISP. > > Consequently, DMARC Reject policies are causing these emails to be marked > spam as the 365 Dist. List forwarding is not doing any header manipulation. > > My thinking is: > - I could set up a Mailman list (elists.mydomain.com) alongside the 365 > Exchange mail domain (mydomain.com) [0] > - I leave inbound mail deliver to the 365 Dist. lists. [1] > - I reconfigure the (mylist(a)mydomain.com) Dist. Lists to fwd to a > similarly-named Mailman address at the email sub-domain ( > mylist(a)elists.mydomain.com) [2] > - The Mailman list, by virtue of having to use the 365 MTA, should be > able to accept all inbound from the list (mylist(a)mydomain.com) [3] > - Mailman would then need to re-write the mail headers such that the > inbound email to-be-forwarded from the Mailman list, both appears to come > from the (mylist(a)mydomain.com) address, and also has the 365 'mydomain.com' > SPF and DKIM records. And given Mailman has to use the 365 MTA, it would > actually be coming from that main mail domain. [4] Aren't you creating a mail loop already? Where is MM3 sending the email to after receiving it (and supposedly modifying the headers)? And at this point [4], what are you trying to do that's different from what's already happening? The best way would be to have MM3 replace the From: addresses with its own address. Isn't DMARC mitigation what you want? > - Somewhere in there, the original sender's email address would need to > be included, such that a Reply-to-All from a receiving List member would > not only go back to the List, but also the original sender. That's what I see happening whenever I hit Reply-to-All on this MM3 list. > My thinking is that with this pattern, I don't need to worry about inbound > emails to the list address as that would simply continue to function as > normal, and fwdd mails from the List to recipient list members would not be > marked spam as the headers would all be good. > I would move everything from o365 distribution lists and just have those on MM3 on a subdomain. > Is my thinking good? Or am I out of my cotton-pickin' mind? > I am not saying your thinking is good or bad. 365 Exchange Admins will be able to help with that. My only issue is that you're complicating life for nothing. If you can have a subdomain with independent MX records, then why not just get the distribution lists out of 365 Exchange? You mentioned that they are 'Open' so what is the reason you're keeping them on 365 Exchange? 1. Run MM3 on lists.mydomain.com 2. Create a list named distlistname1 on MM3 and add all the addresses on that distribution list to this MM3 list. 3. Have distlistname1(a)mydomain.com subscribed to the MM3 list above 4. Have distlistname1(a)mydomain.com forward all the mails to distlistname1(a)lists.mydomain.com. The MM3 list will then do the necessary. In all these steps, what you have avoided is just getting everyone to use distlistname1(a)lists.mydomain.com - which is all you needed anyway. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 In an Internet failure case, the #1 suspect is a constant: DNS. "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]

1 year, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: spanish localization

by Abhilash Raj

On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 01:08, Victoriano Giralt <victoriano(a)uma.es> wrote: > El sáb, 13-02-2021 a las 14:53 -0800, Mark Sapiro escribió: >> What translations are those? Please give specific examples. What I >> am >> saying is Mailman core 3.3.3 is currently up to date with weblate. >> There >> are no Spanish translations for core done after 7 November in >> weblate >> and weblate shows 100% completion for Spanish for Mailman core. > > Mark, please, how do you check when translations happened? Nov 7th is > a > very significant date for me (it is my wedding anniversary) and I'm > 90% > sure that I dedicated time to Weblate after that date... You can look at the commit history of the spanish po file to get a detailed history of when and who made the changes. For example: Core: <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/commits/master/src/mailman/messages/es…> Postorius: <https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/commits/master/src/postorius/locale/…> You find similar histories in all the repos. Each person's changes should be an individual commit in the repo, typically all outstanding translations are committed every night in Weblate. > > All strings related to Mailman (core, django_mailman3, postorius and > hyperkitty) are translated into Spanish 100%, but the interfaces, > after > updating to the latest releases, are still in Englanish (more English > than > Spanish). Could this be because of the .mo files not being up-to-update? There used to be some strings that were translated incorrectly, but I think we fixed all of those that we found. Abhilash > This is not a fight, we want to help, but do not know how. > > Thanks! > > -- > Victoriano Giralt Innovation Director > Digital Transformation Vicerectorate University of Malaga > +34952131415 SPAIN > ================================================================== > Note: signature.asc is the electronic signature of present message > A: Yes. >> Q: Are you sure ? >>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email ? > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > <mailto:mailman-users@mailman3.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > <mailto:mailman-users-leave@mailman3.org> > <https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/> thanks, Abhilash Raj On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 00:57, Victoriano Giralt <victoriano(a)uma.es> wrote: > El sáb, 13-02-2021 a las 20:52 +0100, Guillermo Hernandez (Oldno7) > via > Mailman-users escribió: >> On 13/2/21 20:00, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> > On 2/13/21 2:33 AM, Guillermo Hernandez (Oldno7) via Mailman-users >> > wrote: >> > > But... here is a thing that I can not understand: If the source >> (the >> > > .po >> > > file) is from november 7th, it doesn't matter how many times you >> > > recompile it: the result will be the same. >> > Correct, but the point is if you download the latest >> > gnu-mailman-mailman-es.po from weblate, and compare it to the Nov >> 7 >> > file >> > in the distribution, you will find they are identical, so it it >> appears >> > that the weblate translation hasn't changed since that time. >> > >> > If there are issues in this mailman.po, they exist in weblate too >> and >> > need to be fixed there. >> >> That clarifies all. Thanks. As I said in my previous message, I'll >> wait >> for the next upgrade and hopingly the translations done after 7h of >> november (by others and me) will be there. > > I've visited Weblate, all Spanish strings are translated. Spanish is > 100% > translated, but, none of them have been "approved", whatever that is. > It > seems that a reviewer needs to approve the translation in order for > them to > be incorporated or released or whatever. I was sure I had reviewed > everything between November 7th and the day Abhilash announced the > release > candidate and asked for translation review, but nothing has made it > to the > released version. > > Maybe there's something in the translation flow that we are doing > wrong. > I'm starting to miss the good old days when Mailman 2 translators just > downloaded the .po files and returned them :-) > >> > Also note that the translations on weblate only affect strings in >> the >> > core code. The Mailman core templates are not currently >> translated in >> > weblate and there are currently no Spanish language templates. One >> > would >> > need to create Spanish translations of all the templates in >> > < >> > >> <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/tree/master/src/mailman/templates/en> >> > > >> > and submit a merge request to add them to a mailman/templates/es/ >> > directory. >> > >> I will make the template translations locally, test them, and then, >> if >> they are yet lacking in the main repo, follow your suggestion. > > I'm a bit short on time, but I'll help Guillermo with that, at least > reviewing or doing a second pass. I'm not proficient enough to speak > about > Mailman core templates, but for Django templates, there is a nice tag > for > marking text with translations in the .mo files ... > > -- > Victoriano Giralt Innovation Director > Digital Transformation Vicerectorate University of Malaga > +34952131415 SPAIN > ================================================================== > Note: signature.asc is the electronic signature of present message > A: Yes. >> Q: Are you sure ? >>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email ? > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > <mailto:mailman-users@mailman3.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > <mailto:mailman-users-leave@mailman3.org> > <https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/>

5 years

[MM3-users] Re: Template Ignored?

by Stephen Daniel

Fixed the POSTORIUS_TEMPLATE_BASE_URL. Doesn't fix the issue. I've been playing with wget, and no matter what I put, I keep getting a 404 error. So: this works: wget -O wget.out --user restadmin --password restpass ' http://localhost:8001/3.1/lists/list.example.com' but this does not (404 error): wget -O wget.out --user restadmin --password restpass ' http://localhost:8001/3.1/templates/list/list.example.com/list:user:notice:… ' Is there a way to list all templates? Or all templates for a list? On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 12:34 PM Stephen Daniel <swd(a)pobox.com> wrote: > That pulls a 404 error. Thanks for the hint. I will investigate. > > On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 11:49 AM Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > >> On 2/17/22 08:04, Stephen Daniel wrote: >> > Mailman3 people -- >> > >> > I created a new list, and used postorius to create a template for " >> > list:user:notice:welcome". I then used the mass subscription feature to >> > add myself to the list, having checked "pre-confirmed", "pre-approved", >> and >> > "pre-verified". >> > >> > I received a welcome message that appears to be the default welcome >> > message. It certainly wasn't what I put into my template. >> > >> > Any suggestions on how I get mailman to use my template? Things I >> might be >> > doing wrong? >> >> >> What is your setting for POSTORIUS_TEMPLATE_BASE_URL? If you create a >> full URL by appending >> `/api/templates/list/list.example.com/list:user:notice:welcome` >> <http://list.example.com/list:user:notice:welcome> to that >> where `list.example.com` is the actual list_id of your list, and go to >> that URL, what do you get? >> >> -- >> Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, >> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org >> https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ >> >

4 years

[MM3-users] Re: Weird response to postings after subscriptions and accounts

by Mark Sapiro

On 9/18/19 11:24 PM, Paul Arenson wrote: > > In the case of Mailman 3 much depends on the individual list and its settings, so my conclusion is it is mostly on me. With just a suggestion that you have a SIGN UP blue button to make things less confusing and not necessitating multiple clicking. This is difficult. See my reply to your first message. You will notice that when you click sign-up in either Postorius or HyperKitty, you go to <https://list.tokyoprogressive.org/accounts/signup/> which is neither Postorius nor HyperKitty but Django. So the current process is click sign-up, go to Django and sign up, then go back to Postorius and subscribe. To do this all in one step, Postorius would need to send you to /accounts/signup/?next=/postorius/lists/discuss.list.tokyoprogressive.org/ which it currently does, but there would need to be extra communication between Django and Postorius so that when Django returned to /postorius/lists/discuss.list.tokyoprogressive.org/, Postorius would know to tell Core to subscribe you. However, this is missing a step, because Django sends you an email requesting you to confirm your address, and you don't actually have an account until you confirm. This dance also renders the next=/postorius/lists/discuss.list.tokyoprogressive.org/ ineffective. Presumably Postorius could tell Core to subscribe you anyway even though you haven't confirmed your account, but Postorius doesn't know what address you signed up with. > The main obstacle I found was I had my list settings as NO to "Choose whether to include this list on the list of all lists". Changing this to "Yes" made it a little easier. > > Here are my two tests and conclusion. > > 2) TEST 1 > ________ > Sign up first... > https://list.tokyoprogressive.org/postorius/lists/discuss.list.tokyoprogres… > ...you will find that if I have said NO on "Choose whether to include this list on the list of all lists” you will find it hard to go back to the subscribe page. Unless you backspace. Or paste the address again. Not ideal > > > QUESTIONS: Am I missing something? By not having my discussion listed, people cannot find it to subscribe. > > Or is NOT LISTED better where I add people manually to subscribe and then tell them to sign up? If you want people to be able to find your list by going to <https://list.tokyoprogressive.org/postorius/> or for that matter, to <https://mailman3.emwd.com/postorius/> or if you think having it there is helpful in any way, set List Identity -> Show list on index page to Yes. Otherwise set it to No. > 3) TEST 2 > ________ > One solution is I could put the list back on the host’s list of lists back and tell people to click on Discuss. > > That is what I did for now. Then it is rather smooth. I could tell my users (especially ones from previous company’s mailing list who want to interact with the hyperkitty site) > > to > CLICK LOGIN > CLICK SIGNIN > then follow all these steps: > > Verify > > Confirm > > Get taken to sign in page > > Click Discuss > > Subscribe > > Click Archives > > Or I could leave it as it is and tell people to backspace until they find the signup page and then subscribe. > > Or tell them to copy and paste https://list.tokyoprogressive.org/postorius/lists/discuss.list.tokyoprogres… > > or https://list.tokyoprogressive.org/accounts/signup/ in the same browser window and then subscribe. > > CONCLUSION and SUGGESTION—> WHY NOT HAVE A SEPARATE BLUE BUTTON TO SIGN UP TO AVOID THE CONFUSING clicking twice? See above. > IS THIS THE ANSWER?— > > Tell my users as follows on a WORDPRESS PAGE as follows: > > - - - - - - - - - - - - > Greetings. If you have never signed up before, follow instructions A. If you are coming from the previous dadamail list, follow instructions B > > > INSTRUCTIONS A > Steps 1-3 to get on the mailing list and be able to post from your email account. > Continue to steps 4 and 5 if you want to see the archives and post from that page. (Note to Mark: I have turned the archives off by default to make it more of a no brainer to want to sign up) > > > INSTRUCTIONS B > You are already registered, you will continue to get messages and be able to send to the list. If you want to keep using the same email address you are all set and do not need to do anything. > > If you want to keep using the same address, but also be able to access the archives, follow steps 4 and 5 only. > > If you want to register a new address, follow steps 1-5 below. > > 1) Go here > https://list.tokyoprogressive.org/postorius/lists/discuss.list.tokyoprogres… > Add your email address at the BOTTOM of the page. Name is optional. > > 2) Then wait for email to reply to come. > > 3) That’s it. You can stop here. However, you can sign up to the archives which makes this list more of a forum to see at a glance old conversations. And you can also post from it. To do so, continue to steps 4 and 5, > > 4) Right on the same page, you can sign up and sign in by clicking > log in and then sign up and then follow the same procedure as above. (Mark, SEE SUGGESTION FOR A BLUE SIGN UP BUTTON). > > 5) Once you have signed up, you can log in to access the archives and web posting. > - - - - - - - - - - - - > > Hope the above long winded post was clear. Feel like I am sseing the lite. > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

6 years, 5 months

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