Search results for "dO" - lists.mailman3.org

[MM3-users] Re: mailman break DKIM signature by modifying body

by Mark Sapiro

On 6/5/23 07:06, Peter Münster wrote: > Hi, > > I'm using mailman 3.3.8. > > Some messages with attachments from Google users get rejected by spam > filters because of invalid DKIM signatures. > > It seems, that mailman alters some lines in the body. Here an example: > > Original message: > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > Lines: 2031 > > --000000000000f846c505fc494b7a-- > --000000000000f846c705fc494b7c > Content-Type: application/pdf; > [...] > Content-Disposition: attachment; > [...] > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > Altered message: > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > Lines: 2032 > > --000000000000f846c505fc494b7a-- > > --000000000000f846c705fc494b7c > Content-Type: application/pdf; > [...] > Content-Disposition: attachment; > [...] > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > An empty line is added, and the spaces after the semicolons are removed. > > Perhaps related to https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/1079. > > What could I do please, to prevent such modifications of the body? Changes like those above are due to Python's stdlib email module. Short of actually modifying the email module, there's nothing you can do to prevent them. Instead, you should be DKIM signing your outgoing mail and perhaps applying Mailman's DMARC mitigations if DMARC is an issue. If you are DKIM signing your outgoing mail and mail is being rejected because of prior invalid signatures, you can remove those by adding `remove_dkim_headers: yes` to the [mta] section of mailman.cfg. Also, ARC signing <https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/handlers/d…> may help. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman3 not working following distribution upgrade from Debian 10 to 11.

by gordon＠dickens.com

Thanks to David and everybody else that have replied to my problem. I have proceeded to uninstall the debian mailman3 packages and then endeavored to install everything with venv. I have implemented all of David's configuration suggestions which were very helpful. Now, mailman3 (core) appears to be working properly in that I can start/stop/restart/status the service. Also, the command "mailman info" from the venv prompt yields output which appears to be correct and the same as in the venv instructions. However, I have not been able to get mailman3-web working. All of my configuration files may be viewed here: https://dickens.com/etc-mailman3/ The above files are basically a mirror of the contents of my /etc/mailman3 directory except that I have obfuscated sensitive info such as keys, passwords and email addresses. Executing the mailman3-web service script with the command "systemctl start mailman3-web" starts everything without errors, however, the command "systemctl status mailman3-web" then generates the following output with errors: ● mailman3-web.service - GNU Mailman Web UI Loaded: loaded (/etc/mailman3/mailman3-web.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled) Active: failed (Result: exit-code) since Tue 2022-01-25 17:10:30 EST; 6s ago Process: 1718478 ExecStart=/opt/mailman/venv/bin/uwsgi --ini /etc/mailman3/uwsgi.ini (code=exited, status=1/FAILURE) Main PID: 1718478 (code=exited, status=1/FAILURE) CPU: 12ms Jan 25 17:10:29 slc.mailhub4u.com systemd[1]: Started GNU Mailman Web UI. Jan 25 17:10:30 slc.mailhub4u.com uwsgi[1718478]: [uWSGI] getting INI configuration from /etc/mailman3/uwsgi.ini Jan 25 17:10:30 slc.mailhub4u.com systemd[1]: mailman3-web.service: Main process exited, code=exited, status=1/FAILURE Jan 25 17:10:30 slc.mailhub4u.com systemd[1]: mailman3-web.service: Failed with result 'exit-code'. Also, /var/log/syslog and "journalctl | grep mailman3-web" contain these two lines of errors: Jan 25 14:00:46 slc systemd[1]: mailman3-web.service: Main process exited, code=exited, status=1/FAILURE Jan 25 14:00:46 slc systemd[1]: mailman3-web.service: Failed with result 'exit-code'. Also, other commands in the venv instructions do not work such as "mailman-web migrate" which produces volumes of error dialog starting with: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.9/site-packages/django/template/utils.py", line 66, in __getitem__ return self._engines[alias] KeyError: 'django' Then these two lines are then followed by over 50 lines of django and python error messages. I have not been able to find any hints or suggestions as to what I am doing wrong in my server's logs. FWIW, I have been working in the Unix/Linux command line environment for over 35 years and I have extensive LAMP, EXIM and Mailman2 experience. However, I have not ever worked with Django. I am usually able to resolve issues like this quickly, however, I am at a total loss as to what to do now with this mailman3 installation. I suspect that my unfamiliarity with Django may be my achilles heel. So, I am hoping that somebody here will soon be able to offer suggestions that might help me get everything working properly. I have several organization's mailings lists on this server and I need to get this fixed ASAP especially since my mailman installation has been down now for almost 3 weeks. As you might imagine, this is causing me alot of grief with my mailman3 users. So, please let me know any suggestions that you folks may have to get my mailman3 installation working again. Many Thanks, Gordon

3 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: Finding a user to delete them

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Quanah Gibson-Mount writes: > But really, the documentation needs to be updated further to point > out the the Django ADMIN INTERFACE as the best way to do user > management, and not the python shell. The Django admin interface is something that most sites are not going to want to expose in addition to Postorius, and Postorius is needed for the users. If you have access to the host (another thing that most sites are not going to want to expose to list owners, who are most relevant to user management), you want to use the Mailman shell, not the Python shell (I assume Mailman shell is what you meant, but other readers may not). The bundled administrative interface *is* Postorius. The Mailman shell is basically a quick hack (sorry Abhilash; if you want to call it a masterwork and say the speed of development is testimony to your skills, I won't deny it ;-) to give more convenient access to internals to experienced Mailman hackers. More administrative features is something we plan to work on, but the Mailman project will focus on Postorius for the forseeable future. For alternatives to Postorius and the Mailman shell, Brian Carpenter (follow Allan's subthread) is working on a new management UI (using PHP), and I believe there's a working node.js API "out there somewhere". Please be very considerate of Brian's time; he and EMWD constitute a bulwark of the Mailman ecosystem and will be even busier with the UI project. But do pass on your suggestions to him as well as to us, he's indicated he's open to that. Steve

5 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Held messages: Long time waiating for response of the Mailman API

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Thanks for your patience with our team; I had already received your second "ping" and Mark's response, but due to the way my MUA presents my INBOX I didn't see it (aside to self: *don't* answer Mailman traffic from the inbox, use the "Mailman 3 virtual folder" view! :-). I would have written very differently if I had seen it.... Stephan Krinetzki writes: > Then we should maybe move to gunicorn, if this is the better way > (or at least better supported way) That's definitely a possibility. Among other things, gunicorn is a Python application, so all the Mailman devs have some hope of debugging it or at least localizing it. That's not true of uwsgi. The other possibility if you don't need high performance is to use the Apache mod_wsgi plugin which seems to be quite stable (that's what I do out of laziness -- I really should have uwsgi and gunicorn setups for testing -- my own throughput and admin needs are very modest). > After we enabled the "slow query log", we got in the postgresql > database the following output: > > 2022-01-25 12:49:41.538 CET [16126] LOG: unexpected EOF on > client connection with an open transaction Ouch. That is a database problem but I don't think it's a problem with the database. There are two database connections involved, one is Mailman core, the other is Django, but this > > > the message is delivered to the list immediately, says that core has finished at least some of its business. I guess it's possible that core drops the transaction on the floor, but that seems weird because I don't think this is a common problem. I'm not going to guess further, maybe Mark or Abhilash has something. ISTR other delay issues that have to do with very large databases. Do you have huge numbers of users, lists, or subscriptions to particular lists? Of course it could be Postorius/Django, but I think Postorius delegates all the logic and database work to core for this. Django's databases are user- and authentication-oriented, I don't recall any list-management logic in it that would induce this: > 2022-01-25 15:34:36.047 CET [16864] LOG: duration: 30760.028 > ms statement: DELETE FROM pendedkeyvalue WHERE > pendedkeyvalue.id = XXX Next log: > ERROR 2022-01-25 18:55:55,037 2599 django.request Service Unavailable: > /postorius/lists/games.lists.rwth-aachen.de/held_messages > ERROR 2022-01-25 18:58:24,325 2588 postorius Mailman REST API > not available Not sure about this. It could indicate a deadlock where each of core and the backend database is waiting for the other, so core isn't able to respond to Postorius. It looks to me like the rest of the traceback is a natural consequence of unavailability of the REST API. > * The venv is in /opt/mailman/mailman-venv > * The settings are in /opt/mailman/mailman-venv/mailman-suite/mailman-suite_project I don't see much to flag here. I don't recall whether allauth.socialaccount is supposed to be enabled or disabled if you have no allauth.socialaccount.providers enabled, but it's probably OK (and I don't see how it could be related to this problem): > contenten of settings.py > # Application definition > > INSTALLED_APPS = ( [...] > 'allauth', > 'allauth.account', > 'allauth.socialaccount', Database looks fine: > # Database > # https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.8/ref/settings/#databases > > DATABASES = { > #'default': { > # Example for PostgreSQL (recommanded for production): > 'default': { > 'ENGINE': 'django.db.backends.postgresql_psycopg2', > 'NAME': 'mailman', > 'USER': 'mailman', > 'PASSWORD': '<PASS>', > 'HOST': 'localhost', > } > } This shouldn't have anything to do with slow Postorius (full-text search is relevant only to archives, ie, HyperKitty), but Whoosh is known to be slower than Xapian: > # > # Full-text search engine > # > HAYSTACK_CONNECTIONS = { > 'default': { > 'ENGINE': 'haystack.backends.whoosh_backend.WhooshEngine', > 'PATH': os.path.join(BASE_DIR, "fulltext_index"), > # You can also use the Xapian engine, it's faster and more accurate, > # but requires another library. > # http://django-haystack.readthedocs.io/en/v2.4.1/installing_search_engines.h… > # Example configuration for Xapian: > #'ENGINE': 'xapian_backend.XapianEngine' > }, > } > Nope, the virtual machine is dedicated to Mailman3. Mailman3 as > venv, uwsgi as Webservice, Apache as Webserver, Postfix as > Mailserver and PostgreSQL 10 als Database, all on the same host Oh, well, I guess the case against Mailman gets a little stronger.... > At moment i think its a slow database. Because of the slow > database, the Mailman API is slow and so on. We are trying now to > solve the database part with postgresqltuner - maybe we will see > more details then. OK, keep us posted. I will say that it looks from the logs discussed above that PostgreSQL is waiting for Mailman, not vice versa (but that doesn't rule out a deadlock where both are waiting for the other). I hope my message trims things down enough that it rings a bell for somebody. Steve

3 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: migration

by Dave McGuire

On 7/30/21 3:48 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> Is there a way that I can "dump" the configuration from an existing >> mailman3 server, and "import" it into a new instance? I'd really like >> to avoid re-doing all of the configuration, etc, as there are quite a >> few lists and everything is set up pretty much the way I want it. > > If you use the same database manager it should be no problem to get a > dump of the existing Mailman database to load into the new instance, or > if these are on the same server, just point the new instance to the > existing database. In either case, the database should be loaded and the > Django commands `migrate`, collectstatic`, `compress` and > `compilemessages` run[1] before starting Mailman services. Mailman core > will run any necessary updates to its database upon startup. > > You may also need to rebuild the HyperKitty search index with the > `update_index` Django command, but you may be able to use the existing > one if the search engine is the same. > > [1] See > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html?highlight=colle… > et seq. Understood. I am not at all fluent in django interactions (I'm still not entirely sure of what django actually *is*) so I have some reading to do. Any pointers on "django wrangling for n00bs" would be great. As I mentioned, I've not been hacking on mm3, just using it. I'm an accomplished programmer, but embedded C and assembler are a few galaxies away from python and web services! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

4 years

[MM3-users] Mailman3 doesn't send Mails to users (Debian12 with Plesk)

by marcus＠mbautze.de

Hello, i already send this question to the plesk-forum but it seems that nobody there can help me :-( After updating from Debian 10 to 11 to 12, I now have mailman3 running on my server I then converted all lists from Mailman2 to Mailman3 following the instructions from mailman. I can access it via the web interface, manage everything etc. When I register on the web interface, I also receive the corresponding mails from Mailman (forgotten password...) Mails are also arriving, at least mails that are not allowed go into the mails to be approved. The problem, however, is that it does not send out any mails, nor do they appear in the archive. When I look in the Mailman-Log I find: May 16 01:44:55 2024 (6833) Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on port 25 May 16 01:48:15 2024 (61252) error opening connection to nntp_host: localhost [Errno 111] Connection refused May 16 01:48:15 2024 (61252) NNTP error for list vereinsmitglieder(a)ludothek.de: [Errno 111] Connection refused The configuration of Mailman.cfg looks like this: incoming: mailman.mta.postfix.LMTP outgoing: mailman.mta.deliver.deliver smtp_host: localhost smtp_port: 25 smtp_user: smtp_pass: lmtp_host: 127.0.0.1 lmtp_port: 8024 In Mailman manuals I find hints that the transport routes have to be added to the Postfix-config. Doesn't Debian/Plesk do this automatically? Does anyone else have an idea what I need to change to get my mails out? I did the conversion from mailman2 to mailman3 with root because it didn't work with "sudo -u list "m, but the files stored in the file system all belong to list, so that shouldn't be the problem.

1 year, 2 months

[MM3-users] Post-installation documentation?

by Stephen J. Turnbull

David Newman writes: > I am looking for a high-level "do these steps next to get a list > working" document rather than an API command reference. There's no such documentation. "Get a list working" depends on what you mean by "working". The basic answer is 1. Install Mailman 3 suite. 2. Log in to Postorius as an admin user and create the list. After that, it's case-specific. > - why do the venv docs and admin FAQ give different nginx configs for > the reverse proxy? Because the FAQ is providing a short snippet to solve a specific problem, the venv docs provide what I guess is somebody's full working config. Setting up a Mailman server is complex; usually any example you see in the docs is somebody's "works for me" configuration. > - Does the 'Secret_Hyperkitty_API_Key' need to go anywhere else besides > /opt/mailman/mm/mailman-hyperkitty.cfg? It needs to match MAILMAN_ARCHIVER_KEY in HyperKitty's settings.py. There are a couple of reasonable ways to organize HyperKitty and Postorius configs, I'm not sure where the appropriate settings.py would be on your server. > - For Django (presumably in /etc/mailman3/settings.py, but the docs > don't say), what values to use with Postfix to set up the email back end? The answer is "that depends on your mail environment". As far as I know, normally it just works with the default settings, but if your Postfix requires secure, you need to set that up: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/3.2/ref/settings/#std:setting-EMAIL_USE_T… and possibly the following 3 or 4 variables if authentication is needed. There was a thread on this a couple of weeks ago.

3 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Can "Pre Verified" set to yes by default?

by Alan So

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Hi Alan, > It occurred to me that Django template widgets are very flexible. It > may be possible to customize the template to accomplish this task. In > that case, the customized template would be kept in a place that > doesn't get overwritten in an upgrade, reducing the maintenance cost > (unless either Postorius or Django changes the template in a way that > seems unlikely to me). I'll try to take a look at that over the > holiday break -- that has the advantage that I just document how we > did it for you, and tell any future requests to RTFM and DIY. ;-) Many thanks for your effort especially during the long holiday. Really appreciate. > I agree, you need to be disciplined about what changes you are willing > to develop and maintain. This one seemed to me to be over that bar, > especially since you can put it in and not suffer too greatly if it > gets reverted in a upgrade and the maintainers don't notice. We do not always have full control of what we are willing to do. It is kind of a Pandora's box. Opening it up may lead to other requests which may no longer be patches but changes potentially conflicting with future upgrade. It is ok if people here recognize that we should have our own developers to participate in this kind of changes and also the maintenance but it is not the culture here. Particularly developers here are much more experienced in Win, C#, .NET than Linux, Python.

2 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Internal Server Error, Need 2 values to unpack in for loop; got 1

by Elias Rudberg

After some more digging into this I found a way to reproduce it using a much simpler URL, like the following (but with the real name instead of example.org) https://example.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/?items=x The error comes when Django is trying to process the template django-mailman3/django_mailman3/templates/django_mailman3/paginator/pagination.html which contains two for-loops of the following kind: {% for key, value in request.GET.items %} [... doing something with key and value here ...] {% endfor %} It seems like Django then gets confused by the different "items" variables involved, I think the value from the "?items=x" part of the request URL gets used instead of the "request.GET.items" (both are called "items" but they contain different things. I don't know if the for-loops in that template could be done differently to avoid this. There is something similar at https://github.com/django/django/blob/main/django/views/templates/technical… where the corresponding for-loop looks like this instead: {% for k, v in request_GET_items %} [...] {% endfor %} So there they write "request_GET_items" instead of "request.GET.items" for some reason. I don't know if doing it like that is possible in case of the mailman template, just mentioning it because it looks like it could be another way to achieve the same thing. I wrote a question about this in the Django forum also, here: https://forum.djangoproject.com/t/getting-error-need-2-values-to-unpack-in-… Hoping for an answer there to help figure out if this should be seen as a bug in Django or not. / Elias

1 year

[MM3-users] Re: virtual_alias_domains

by Johannes Rohr

Please ignore my previous message! I understand, alias domains can be added through the web interface. (took me quite a while of searching...) Johannes Am 06.01.23 um 08:37 schrieb Johannes Rohr: > Dear all, > > I have to set up mailman3 in an environment where postfix uses virtual > alias domains. This is described in > https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/mta.h… > > I don't understand, though, what I need to do to have mailman generate > > $PREFIX/var/data/postfix_vmap > > > > I have tried to follow the instructions at > https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/model/docs… > with the purpose of setting an alias domain. However, things go > sideways quickly: > >>>> from mailman.interfaces.domain import IDomainManager >>>> from zope.component import getUtility >>>> manager = getUtility(IDomainManager) > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> > File > "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/zope/component/_api.py", > line 165, in getUtility > raise ComponentLookupError(interface, name) > zope.interface.interfaces.ComponentLookupError: (<InterfaceClass > mailman.interfaces.domain.IDomainManager>, '') >>>> > > > So, something is missing. But, being a complete python layman, I do > not know what and how I fix it. > > Can someone give me a headsup? That would be greatly appreciated! > > Johannes > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > Archived at: > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… > > This message sent to johannes(a)rohr.org

2 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: [EXT] - moving lists to another server

by Bryan Kartzman

Wow, thanks for the very thorough response, Steve. I should have started by saying that when we built the current production server, we cloned it off the test server and we were thinking now to move the data onto another clone of the old test server. So, yes we would have to apply all the changes we made since we cloned the current production server, but everything else as far as the OS is concerned should be comparable (webserver, MTA, Mailman core, Django, Hyperkitty, Postorius). That's why I was just asking about the "data" aspects of mailman/hyperkitty/postorius. What would I have to move to replicate all the lists on the current production server to a new clone of the original test server once we've applied any changes we made to production server since the clone. ________________________________ From: Stephen J. Turnbull <turnbull.stephen.fw(a)u.tsukuba.ac.jp> Sent: Tuesday, November 7, 2023 1:07 PM To: Bryan Kartzman <bryan.kartzman(a)yu.edu> Cc: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org <mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> Subject: [EXT] - [MM3-users] moving lists to another server **External Email** bryan.kartzman(a)yu.edu writes: > I have both my mailman lists and django config in postgres > databases. These are Mailman 3 lists? What Django config? Do you mean Postorius and HyperKitty? Do you intend to use Postorius and HyperKitty on the new server? > If I want to move my lists to another server that is running > mailman 3, aside from copying the databases to the other server, Do you mean the other server is already actively distributing Mailman list traffic, managing users and archives? Or is it fresh instance? > what other things (perhaps all files under /var/lib/mailman3?, etc) > would I need to bring over to the other server? That's going to vary depending on the way your existing server is set up. A Mailman 3 instance is a complex system of cooperating applications. Assuming you have not patched or added any Python code, typical configuration and customizations include 1. Your webserver (Apache, nginx are most common) needs configuration to handle WSGI applications and may need modules enabled or installed for the WSGI server. This is usually installed as an OS distro package, and the configurations will live in /etc/apache2 or similar for another webserver. Depending on other content served by the two hosts you may have to edit the configuration on the new host rather than copy it from the old one. 2. The WSGI server is typically a separate application, although there is an Apache module for this. Gunicorn is a Python application usually installed via pip. I like to keep its Django configuration, which I call gunicorn.conf.py, in /etc/mailman3. (Mailman core also uses gunicorn, but that is transparent to you, it should not need custom configuration.) uwsgi is a C or C++ application normally supplied as a distro package. Don't know where it keeps its config files but since it's a distro package my first guess is /etc/uwsgi. 3. Your MTA, usually Postfix or Exim4, maybe Sendmail or qmail needs to be configured to route mail to Mailman, and apply any milters, signatures, and perhaps anti-yahoo configurations such as ARC. 4. Your database server, usually PostgreSQL or MySQL. 5. Mailman core has a single configuration file mailman.cfg, which I keep in /etc/mailman3. It also has a crontab, which in Debian- derived systems typically lives in the file /etc/cron.d/mailman3. Note that this could be implmented as a systemd timer, but I don't know if any distros do that. 6. Django, Postorius, and HyperKitty together constitute the mailman-web subsystem. I strongly recommend you use the mailmanweb Python package to manage Django and its applications. In any case I am not familiar with other organizations of those packages, so I'm going to assume it. If you are not using mailmanweb, you will need to be careful because most subpackages in the Django subsystem name their configuration files settings.py, urls.py, and views.py just like top-level, and distinguish them by using Python's attribute notation (eg, postorius.urls). a. Django application configuration for Postorius and HyperKitty goes in settings.py, which I put in /etc/mailman3. b. Django site configuration for Postorius and HyperKitty goes in urls.py (the routing configuration mapping URLs to views) and views.py (mapping views to Python code). I put these in /etc/mailmn3. c. Full-text indexing for HyperKitty. Default is Whoosh (a Python application) whose configuration goes in Django's settings.py. I prefer Xapian, which requires a separate application (Debian and Ubuntu have packages), but the needed configuration can be done in the top-level settings.py. 7. Template customization. If you have any customized templates for Mailman's email or Django's views, you'll need to copy and move them too. I haven't customized email, but Django's page templates can be kept separately with a path variable set in settings.py. I put them in a hierarchy under /etc/mailman3/templates. Maybe Mailman core has a similar setting? 8. Transient files. Aside from code and configuration, everything in Django is in the RDBMS, there are be no random files strewn around as far as I know. Mailman core is another matter. You can hope that all Mailman transient files are in its "var" hierarchy. $var_dir (the setting in mailman.cfg or inherited from schema.cfg) is the root of this hierarchy. I set var_dir=/opt/mailman/var, I think Mark may use var_dir=/opt/mailman/mm/var. I would guess that FHS-conformant distros would likely use var_dir=/var/lib/mailman3. a. The queue directories $var_dir/queue/* should be empty. Shut down the incoming mail and let mailman run until it's clear. (Normally takes < 5 seconds.) The exceptions are the shunt and bad queues, which are messages that Mailman doesn't know what to do with. With the venv active, run "mailman unshunt" to attempt to clear the shunt queue. Move anything that's left in shunt as well as any .bak or .tmp files into the bad queue for later treatment. These can be copied to the bad queue in the new instance. Use "mailman qfile <file>" to examine them to see if they can be deleted. b. I think the only stuff that ends up in the $var_dir/lists/* directories are digests being built for later distribution. Use the usual tools to send them off or copy them over to the new instance. c. There should be nothing in $var_dir/archives/hyperkitty/spool, which is temporary storage for messages to be archived. That is, it should get cleared up by the few seconds while incoming mail is stopped and outgoing messages are being processed. If there's anything still there, stash it away for later examination using "mailman qfile". (Don't put it in queue/bad or queue/archive though, this is a different process from the normal pipeline.) I think that's about it. Steve

1 year, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Dealing with hyperkitty spool files (was Re: Re: Fwd: [Django] ...)

by David Partain

> On Wed, 2021-03-03 at 08:29 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > 1. Am I correct in assuming that I can just use my favorite editor > > (vi) to remove the offending characters from the file? > No. The file is a Python pickle and you can't edit it. You would need > to get the message and the metadata from the pickle (you could at least > view it with the `mailman qfile` command), edit the message and then > re-pickle the message and metadata. And, in my impatience, I tried it before receiving your response and now I seem to have done silliness in my database :( New error in mailman-web.log: AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'subject' Sigh. Stupid me. If you have suggestions on fixing that... Right now, my plan is simply to remove the first message in the queue (since I assume it'll be the "broken" one) and it'll just not be in the archive. Life's hard. Even if I unpack 'em to edit, I'll find mail in, for example, in base64, and I'm not going to fix the mail by decoding, editing, re-encoding, ... Nope. > > 3. Can I do something to make hyperkitty go through the spool? > > > > I don't know what you mean. Sorry I wasn't clear. I simply meant, "Is there a way to start hyperkitty going through the spool manually?" It sounds like, though, that I don't need to do that if it's going to happen that often anyway. Cheers, David

4 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Moderating posts via email

by Abhilash Raj

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017, at 02:52 PM, Dmitry Makovey wrote: > On 10/26/2017 02:46 PM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 26, 2017, at 02:21 PM, Dmitry Makovey wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> we are trying to figure out what is that we're doing wrong as we can't > >> use instructions that mailman sends with information on held messages as > >> referenced in: > >> https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/blob/master/src/mailman/chains/hold.py#L… > >> > >> In particular - replying to the message with "Approved: listpassword" we > >> were not able to approve any message. > > > > Did you add it to the body/subject of the email? > > We have added "Approved: listpassword" to the body of the message as a > first line as advised. > > > > AFAIK, Mailman looks for "Approed" header to approve the held messages. > > We did not try to inject "Approved: listpassword" header into the > message body itself though. And if that is the way it is supposed to > function I'm questioning whether average user would be able to operate > it. I am sorry, it does indeed say that you can add it to the first line of the body. I haven't tried doing it so I am not sure if it works, maybe someone else can comment on it. Given how emails are not so good at being secret, I'd not advise using it despite it's current state. Although, if it is a feature, it should work regardless! -- Abhilash Raj maxking(a)asynchronous.in

7 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: ValueError: The ADMINS setting must be a list of 2-tuples.

by David Partain

Thanks! I can also be happy knowing that the next person who Googles the same error will find an answer, even if my silliness will also live on. I can take that 🙂 David ________________________________ From: Stephen J. Turnbull <turnbull.stephen.fw(a)u.tsukuba.ac.jp> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2024 17:04 To: David Partain <david.partain(a)ericsson.com> Cc: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org <mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> Subject: [MM3-users] Re: ValueError: The ADMINS setting must be a list of 2-tuples. David Partain via Mailman-users writes: > And do I feel silly. Please don't. You made a good report with all the information needed to point out a fix, even if it was obvious *in hindsight*. Of course we appreciate the effort of those who figure it out for themselves and save us a bug report, but a good report and a quick fix for it has a lot of educational value, too. Steve ________________________________ From: Stephen J. Turnbull <turnbull.stephen.fw(a)u.tsukuba.ac.jp> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2024 17:04 To: David Partain <david.partain(a)ericsson.com> Cc: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org <mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> Subject: [MM3-users] Re: ValueError: The ADMINS setting must be a list of 2-tuples. David Partain via Mailman-users writes: > And do I feel silly. Please don't. You made a good report with all the information needed to point out a fix, even if it was obvious *in hindsight*. Of course we appreciate the effort of those who figure it out for themselves and save us a bug report, but a good report and a quick fix for it has a lot of educational value, too. Steve

1 year, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Member Issue Discovered

by Brian Carpenter

On 10/23/20 11:19 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Here's a thought. For Affinity/Empathy at least, how about using Mailman > core's user as the Affinity registered user. I.e., if someone's first > interaction is to register with Affinity, have that registration create > a core user to keep the Affinity registration data. This core user > already accommodates a display_name and password and email address(es). > > If the person already is a core user when registering for Affinity, just > update the core user as needed, probably only a password reset or just > setting it if it is currently None. > > Then you don't have the issue of another, separate registration for > Affinity. > > This would be more difficult for Postorius/Hyperkitty because those > users are Django users, but that isn't an issue for Affinity. > > -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San > Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing > list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to > mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ How would a person already be a core user outside of a registration with Affinity? Via a list subscription or the import21 script? I do agree overall that we can more easily address some/all of these issues more easily and quicker due to not being tied to Django. I hope to get all of this address in our Nov development cycle. I do want to apologize for my tone Mark. I was wrong in the way I communicated. > -- Brian Carpenter Harmonylists.com Emwd.com

4 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: nginx configuration on a multitasking server

by David Newman

On 12/10/21 12:57 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 12/10/21 10:22 AM, David Newman wrote: >> >> 1. At least on my system, the proxy_pass statement will only run >> without errors if I change this to a fully formed URL, e.g., >> 'proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:8000'. Is this a typo in the docs? > > > I changed it at > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html#nginx-configura… > but I wonder if we shouldn't be using `uwsgi_pass` instead of proxy_pass. > > See https://nginx.org/en/docs/http/ngx_http_uwsgi_module.html#uwsgi_pass > > Are you using uwsgi or some other wsgi server. uwsgi, per the venv and PDF docs. Thanks for the fix. Regarding the uwsgi_pass docs, would 'uwsgi_pass_header' directives replace the 'proxy_set_header' ones in the venv doc? Looking at the uwsgi doc, it seems they might do different things. >> 2. What document root(s) and alias(es) to use for Postorius and >> Hyperkitty and the Django admin on a server that also runs other >> services (e.g., Postfix for non-list mail and Roundcubemail)? > > > If you can separate Mailman from other services by subdomain Alas, I can do that for all but one of the subdomains I have in production. For the past 15 or so years, users of that subdomain have used mail.domain.tld for MM2, roundcubemail, and an admin web UI that manages regular mail. The "/" has gone to roundcubemail, and users to go other directories for the other services. For example, MM2 users currently go to /mailman. , you can > configure them separately and for Mailman, root is irrelevant as > everything is proxied or aliased in a location directive. For example, > Mailman on the server that supports this list uses the > lists.mailman3.org domain and we have (excerpted) > ``` > server { > listen 443 default_server; > root /usr/share/nginx/html; > index index.html index.htm; > # root and index are probably irrelevant as we never go there > server_name lists.mailman3.org; > ssl on; > #ssl stuff > location / { > proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:8000/; > # other proxy stuff In this example, / goes to MM3. The assumption here and in the MM3 docs is that we're standing up a dedicated server where MM3 pages should be served as the default. That's a totally valid design decision, and one could argue it's superior to running a bunch of other services on one machine. It's not the situation I have to deal with, though. Short of changing a long-standing URL, what I'm looking to do is have "/" continue to default to roundcubemail, and have users type in longer URLs for MM3 and other services. You're right that the root and index directives above are irrelevant since / goes to MM3 via proxy. What I'm asking is what root(s) and location(s) to use with nginx where MM3 isn't the default. Thanks again! dn > } > location /static/ { > alias /var/spool/mailman-web/static/; > } > location /robots.txt { > alias /usr/share/nginx/html/robots.txt; > } > location /favicon.ico { > alias /var/www/listorg/images/favicon.ico; > } > } > ``` > And for the other stuff we have > ``` > server { > listen 443; > server_name .list.org mirror.list.org mirror.mailman3.org; > root /var/www/listorg; > ssl on; > # ssl stuff > } > >

3 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Creating and placing custom templates

by kelly.close＠lrewater.com

I know there are previous threads related to this topic but none were very recent so I thought I'd start a new one. I've referenced two of the old ones below. I am attempting to implement a custom footer on one of my lists. This seems like it should be straightforward but I'm clearly doing something wrong, since the default footer keeps coming through despite my efforts. I've referenced the docs as well as these two posts, to no avail. https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/… https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… Here's what I'm doing: I found my templates folder and verified it matched what is set in the mailman.cfg file - on my Ubuntu Bionic system it is /var/lib/mailman3/templates/ In that folder I created the following folders and made sure they were properly owned (by list:list) /var/lib/mailman3/templates/lists/f2p2-test.udfcd-lists.org/en/ Into that en/ folder I placed a file called "list:member:regular:footer" It is a text file with just one line of text in it (a link to a website). Also, because there was a mention in one of the earlier posts that this file should have a .txt extension, I also put the same file in there named "list:member:regular:footer.txt". I have two of my own emails subscribed t my "f2p2-test" list at the domain udfcd-lists.org. When I post to the list, and check my other email for the disseminated post, it still has the default footer. I have restarted the mailman3 service. Can anyone spot an obvious error here or offer troubleshooting suggestions? Thank You! ~Kelly

6 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Problems configuring hyperkitty

by Alain D D Williams

I am having another go at installing mailman3 - I seem to have mailman3 & postorius working - although basic testing, much more needed to confirm that I understand it. I want to get hyperkitty working before I start full testing. I am running Debian 12 - Bookworm and have installed the Debian packages. The database is Mysql. This is not a virtualenv setup. There is no documentation in the hyperkitty package so I am following: https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/hyperkitty/en/latest/install.html I read the following: "The database can be created with the following command: django-admin migrate --pythonpath example_project --settings settings " I assume that that will create some database tables. Hopefully this will have been done by installing package python3-mailman-hyperkitty. • What database & tables will that be ? It would be really useful to be told so that I can check. • The config file is: /etc/mailman3/mailman-hyperkitty.cfg This does not contain any comment about databases. Where does hyperkitty get its database parameters from ? • I have several different maildomains each with several lists. Some lists in different domains have the same name. Do I need a different example_project/settings.py for each domain, if so what changes ? One of the next things that I will need to do is to import archives from mailman2. How does the command below change for the different domains ? django-admin hyperkitty_import --pythonpath example_project --settings settings -l ADDRESS mbox_file [mbox_file ...] Is there some better documentation that I have failed to find ? Regards -- Alain Williams Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer. +44 (0) 787 668 0256 https://www.phcomp.co.uk/ Parliament Hill Computers. Registration Information: https://www.phcomp.co.uk/Contact.html #include <std_disclaimer.h>

8 months, 2 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: compatibility of mailman 3.3.10 with mariadb 11.4 LTS

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Michael, if you're going to "correct" people in public, you really should try for a higher degree of accuracy. Michael Bayer writes: > support for different databases is the responsibility of GNU > Mailman, Not so. First, "responsibility" is something we explicitly disclaim ("no warrantee", "as is", etc). Second, if code that works perfectly well with other MySQL-family databases fails with a specific product and version, we would be well within accepted practice to say "tough luck, use a compatible version". And third, SQLAlchemy advertises that it provides a common API independent of vendor and version of the backend database ... that's *why* we use it. Not to "avoid responsibility", but because the product does it very well. But it does mean we have almost no information about version quirks, and only very rarely do we see vendor-specific issues. > SQLAlchemy is a database access library that does not guarantee an > application works with a particular database as it supports > vendor-specific behaviors and constructs. Sure, but we don't ask it to do anything vendor-specific, We use only APIs common to all RDBMSes we claim to support. To the extent that SQLAlchemy opts to use vendor-specific features to support those APIs, we don't know about it. > please dont mislead users into thinking the SQLAlchemy project is > providing support for GNU Mailman, I didn't. I said it *should* work, and if that's not good enough for the OP, I told them where to find people who would have data on their specific question. > thanks You're welcome. Steve

4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Join a Mailman 3 list?

by Cathryn McGuire

Hi Mark, Stephen & Thomas, We've successfully merged our Mailman 2 list into Mailman 3. EMWD worked over the weekend to get it done for our members. We're pretty grateful. There are a few things we're trying to get our heads around, specifically to do with the Affinity Web UI. Most of it is pretty self explanatory, and I can see where it will be more aesthetically pleasing to manage, but a few things that aren't so intuitive. Is anyone working with Mailman 3 and Affinity that could help us through the set up? For instance, when I log in as owner and go to change my password, it won't take a new one and asks me (with a pull down menu box) which account I want to change the password for, and it gives me a list of my emails, and also the other owner's email address. When I choose the email I'm logged in under, it says it's not the correct "credentials." Has anyone had this issue? Another thing is, and Stephen J. Turnbull prepared us for this, that the transferred membership are all "enabled" but not "registered." I understand we have to send a membership wide notification with a link to the Affinity log in page, and instructions going to the top right hand and clicking on the login icon, putting in their email address (the one in the system) and adding a password OR do they have to "create" a new sign in? Thanks for any info you can give us about Affinity. (I see Brian Carpenter was beta testing it 4 years ago.) Cheers, Cathryn

1 month, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman sends Welcome emails, but does not send [List] postings emails

by Nelson Strother

Neither .../logs/mailman.log nor /var/log/syslog contain any recording of "Master detected ..." nor process exits other than at the time of `mailman stop` commands. Watching during these transitions with `vmstat` shows a decrease in free pages and an increase in swapping, but no definitive hint of the OOM reaper running. I did not intend to imply that `mailman start` (predictably) consumes more time than `mailman restart`. Both are lengthy and variable; I think one cause for `mailman stop` consuming more time than usual is when mailman receives a message as it is trying to stop, which is understandable. Interestingly if I use `systemctl start mailman` thus far the results are: - the wall clock duration is shorter than when `mailman start` is issued from the command line, and -- either that all of the runners remain present once they are started, -- or I can see in syslog a traceback from each missing runner process starting from .../mailman/.local/bin/runner and ending with "flufl.lock._lockfile.NotLockedError: Already unlocked". I do not yet understand how to make use of these clues, but at least one can see an epitaph from each deceased process. On 6/6/23 14:47, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 6/6/23 07:58, Nelson Strother wrote: >> >> No errors are being recorded in the mailman log files. This is GNU >> Mailman 3.3.8 via `pip install mailman` on Debian 5.10.179-1 >> (2023-05-12) running on a shared system where VMware gives this >> server enough cycles that `mailman start` and `mailman stop` each >> consume from 20 minutes to an hour of wall clock time, so I do not >> issue those commands recreationally, attempting to keep the system >> available for users. What should I do to help understand the cause >> for these failures? > > > If a runner has died, its death and a reason should be logged in > Mailman's var/logs/mailman.log with a message similar to > > Master detected subprocess exit (pid: 8617, why: SIGNAL 15, class: in, > slice: 1/1) > > This may not be the case if the runner is killed by the OS for an out > of memory or similar reason. For this, look in syslog. > > `mailman stop` can take a long time because it is waiting for a runner > to stop. See https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/255 but that > issue was fixed long ago. I don't understand why `mailman start` would > take more time than `mailman restart`. In fact, `mailman restart` > effectively does `stop` and `start`, but only for those runners which > are running. > > Since you seem to frequently have missing runners, I suspect something > like an OOM condition is causing the OS to kill them. Although, I > wonder if you are correctly interpreting the logs. While the absence > of the `retry`, `task`, `nntp` and `archive` runners might not be > noticed except for messages not being archived, if either the `in` or > `pipeline` runner is not running, no list posts will be processed. > > >> Would not it be helpful for this limitation of restart to be included >> in: >> mailman restart --help >> with a suggestion to use `mailman stop` and `mailman start` instead? > > > I have just filed https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/1082 for > this. >

2 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman, etc. upgrade woes and persistent bugs

by Brian Carpenter

On 2/13/21 10:53 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-users wrote: > But how do you display a "Membership List page" for admins in MM3 > (choice of wording is specific to other emails you've posted today) > without third-party application(s), and isn't that too a shortcoming in > MM3 due to that functionality being present in MM2? Look, without a > doubt the REST API of MM3 Core is cool, but let's be honest, all the 3rd > party wrapping and baggage is, well, not so cool. But, again being > honest, you can't have a MM3 system without all of those things. With > MM2 we have all those things, and we are happy with them.:) Affinity is just a UI that sits on top of Mailman 3 core. Most of its functions and displays come from Mailman 3 core. Everything I mentioned about how Affinity displays List Member Management to List Owners uses MM3's REST api to do so. In my opinion, Postorius is nowhere near in taking advantage of all that Mailman 3 core offers along with free tools such as Bootstrap 4. The only thing that is holding Postorius back is time to improve it and that is not the fault of MM3 or the developers. The thing to take away from this however is Postorius still has the potential (because the foundation is there) to be a great modern UI for Mailman 3 core. MM2 does not have that potential and never will. Sure it works until it doesn't. I am pretty sure Pipermail is a wrapper and not an inherit part of MM2. -- Brian Carpenter Harmonylists.com Emwd.com

4 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: nginx configuration on a multitasking server

by Mark Sapiro

On 12/10/21 3:22 PM, David Newman wrote: > On 12/10/21 12:57 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >> Are you using uwsgi or some other wsgi server. > > uwsgi, per the venv and PDF docs. Thanks for the fix. > > Regarding the uwsgi_pass docs, would 'uwsgi_pass_header' directives > replace the 'proxy_set_header' ones in the venv doc? > > Looking at the uwsgi doc, it seems they might do different things. If you are using uwsgi and proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:8000 is working for you, then I'm satisfied that the docs are OK now and we don't need to say anything about uwsgi_pass. > It's not the situation I have to deal with, though. Short of changing a > long-standing URL, what I'm looking to do is have "/" continue to > default to roundcubemail, and have users type in longer URLs for MM3 and > other services. I think you can set the document root to the roundcubemail root and then set locations for the Mailman destinations as, e.g. location /mailman3/ { proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:8000; proxy_set_header Host $host; proxy_set_header X-Forwarded-For $remote_addr; } location /archives/ { proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:8000; proxy_set_header Host $host; proxy_set_header X-Forwarded-For $remote_addr; } location /accounts/ { proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:8000; proxy_set_header Host $host; proxy_set_header X-Forwarded-For $remote_addr; } location /admin/ { proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:8000; proxy_set_header Host $host; proxy_set_header X-Forwarded-For $remote_addr; } location /user-profile/ { proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:8000; proxy_set_header Host $host; proxy_set_header X-Forwarded-For $remote_addr; } I haven't tried anything like this, so I'm not sure it will work, but I think so. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: rDNS issue? Helo name contains an IP address (HELO was [127.0.0.1]) and not is valid

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Kyriakos Terzopoulos writes: > No more mail being marked as spam. However I face a (hopefully) new > problem now. When I mass subscribe the users, they get an initial > invitation email. However after replying I get this in the exim > logs, the subsequent mails do not arrive and the users are not > verified at all: > > 2023-10-25 13:36:41 1qvbFh-001kcb-Ig <= myname(a)myproject.eu > H=localhost (webmail.myproject.eu) [127.0.0.1] P=esmtpa > A=dovecot_login: myname(a)myproject.eu S=1726 > id=32091a0e12cc23fa988380639a4c44a6@ myproject.eu > 2023-10-25 13:36:41 1qvbFh-001kcb-Ig == partners(a)myproject.eu > <partners-confirm+6df62cd0f805b2b66b21a43a42ec8ee77487e8ad(a)myproject.eu> > R=mailman3_router T=mailman3_transport defer (-54): > retry time not reached for any host for ' myproject.eu' It looks like 'myname' has replied to the invitation, and was received by this MTA (is it Mailman's MTA?). Then delivery to Mailman was deferred because delivery to ' myproject.eu' has failed, and Exim is queueing them for future delivery, until the next retry time. Try using 'runq' then checking the log to see why mail is failing in the first place. I do not understand why there are spaces before the host name in these lines: > id=32091a0e12cc23fa988380639a4c44a6@ myproject.eu > retry time not reached for any host for ' myproject.eu' The first never happens in my Exim instance. (I have no instances of "retry time not reached" at all in my logs.) That suggests a misconfiguration, in Exim, in Mailman, or Postorius. You should check the mailman3_router and the mailman3_transport first because they're easier. Steve

1 year, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Moderating posts via email

by Barry Warsaw

On Oct 26, 2017, at 17:21, Dmitry Makovey <dmakovey(a)stanford.edu> wrote: > > we are trying to figure out what is that we're doing wrong as we can't > use instructions that mailman sends with information on held messages as > referenced in: > https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/blob/master/src/mailman/chains/hold.py#L… > > In particular - replying to the message with "Approved: listpassword" we > were not able to approve any message. I’m pretty sure you’re not doing anything wrong, it just doesn’t work. There are two use cases for Approved: header. The first is that the list admin can send a pre-approved message to the mailing list, which bypasses all rule checks except for dmarc-mitigation and no-senders. At least, that’s what happens with the default, built-in chain. But that’s not what you’re talking about here. The second use case is where you reply to the subpart with the ‘confirm <token>’ Subject. This should go to the -confirm@ or -requests@ subaddress (both of which are processed by the command runner). As that bit of text says, the held message should be discarded if there’s no matching Approved: header (in the first non-blank line of the message body, or in a header). The held message will be accepted if it has a matching Approved: header. The problem is that the current implementation of the ‘confirm’ command doesn’t distinguish the operation based on the “pend key” of the record matching the token. Meaning, those tokens are used to represent held messages *and* held subscriptions, and the ‘confirm’ command only routes its message to the subscription handler. So I’d say this is a bug in the ‘confirm’ command handler. -Barry

7 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Help with fresh debian install

by Abhilash Raj

On Sat, Oct 5, 2019, at 7:27 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Jonas Meurer writes: > > > > This is the issue. I don't know how the Debian packages do this, but I > > > recommend having a 'mailman' user that owns everything and running > > > commands as that user. > > > > The Debian package uses user `list` for this. It also provides a command > > `mailman-wrapper` which takes care of running mailman commands as this user. Is this wrapper a sort of alias to `sudo -u list mailman` or something more than that? > > > > It would be awesome if the upstream /usr/bin/mailman command could take > > care of this automatically, making the wrapper command obsolete. > > What precisely is "this"? We already have the mailman command; are > you suggesting it should be suid/sgid mailman/list/whatever? That's > pretty obviously a vulnerability. If there are any RCEs *anywhere* on > your host, your Mailman is pwned. If you know your installation is > secure enough or you just don't care, fine, chmod it yourself. > > If not, how do you propose upstream "take care of it?" > > Steve > > > -- > Associate Professor Division of Policy and Planning Science > http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/ Faculty of Systems and Information > Email: turnbull(a)sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba > Tel: 029-853-5175 Tennodai 1-1-1, Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

5 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Things I miss about mailman2

by Quanah Gibson-Mount

--On Wednesday, March 18, 2020 2:58 AM -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > This was implemented by > <https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/merge_requests/397> and released > in Postorius 1.3.0. Ok, that would be the issue... Debian 10 only has 1.2.4-1 bundled. I'll see if I can find a backport for 1.3. >>> This was not "removed". It just hasn't been implemented in MM 3 yet. >> >> So in terms of available functionality that was present in MM2, it was >> removed. It may need to be re-implemented, but this was a core feature >> that was present in the prior version that is no longer available. > > > Yes, we are aware of many things that are not yet exposed/implemented in > Postorius and elsewhere. There are currently 580 open issues at > <https://gitlab.com/groups/mailman/-/issues>. We are working on these > things as we can. We would love to have your help in fixing these. In > the mean time, there are really only 2 or 3 core developers working on > this and we are all volunteers, so it takes time. I fully understand and would love to contribute. The problem being that I already am doing this for multiple other projects where we're facing the same issue -- Lots of people use the software and there are the occasional contributions, but few people who are willing to be core members to really help drive the projects, and I can only drive so many and do my paying job. :/ Regards, Quanah -- Quanah Gibson-Mount Product Architect Symas Corporation Packaged, certified, and supported LDAP solutions powered by OpenLDAP: <http://www.symas.com>

5 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Memory footprint

by Stephen J. Turnbull

After I wrote this, I see that the OP has a usecase where they've got a shrunk to fit AWS instance. So this is more useful than I thought, but I still don't think that's a huge audience. (The OP himself just upgraded the instance, after all.) Barry Warsaw writes: > I can imagine different ways of doing it. For example, systemd > socket activation on OSes that support that for the REST and LMTP > servers. And maybe use inotify in the master watcher to spawn > queue processing runners on demand. These would all be interesting > things to explore, although they may not be universally appropriate > (i.e. not all *nix systems supported by Mailman run systemd, nor > support inotify). Not to mention that spawning is typically a heavyweight action, so if you're heavily loaded enough to care about load, you'd need to add complex logic like that used by Apache to ensure you have same processes/threads hanging around to answer frequent calls, rather than one-shot "CGI" style. We do have thread and process pools in Python, but they wouldn't necessarily be compatible with this use case combined with systemd or inotify without additional logic in Mailman. If somebody wants to mess with this specifically, it could be useful. But I think it's kind of a long shot given the kinds of scenarios Mailman is typically used in (lightweight Mom & Pop shops, virtual servers with Mailman-as-a-Service, and hard-core 5,000-list 100,000 message per day university settings be the not unusual extremes). Sort of like gilectomy efforts in Python itself (maybe //arry would like to work on this? ;-) ;-) nudge nudge say-no-more, eh?) Regards,

8 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Django logins for new subscribers

by Alex McLean

On 12 January 2018 at 19:19, Abhilash Raj <maxking(a)asynchronous.in> wrote: > Yes, that is the expected behavior. Postorius is just one of the front-end for Mailman (and only one, for now), so we didn't think it would make sense to create account for every Mailman User in Postorius as well. Ok thanks. From my perspective this is confusing behaviour though, especially for people new to the concept of mailing lists. There are three things to understand in the suite - mailman, postorius and hyperkitty. It seems that hyperkitty is trying hard to be a web forum and actually does a really good job (one reason why we're switching), but postorious links to it as an archive rather than a full interface to the discussion. The default welcome email didn't contain any web links to postorius or hyperkitty. I realise I can change such texts and will spend some time on this. I'd be interested to hear advice from others who have done this sort of thing. > So, basically everyone has to go through the sign-up process, which isn't really hard if you choose one of the social logins. Yes true. > It wouldn't be very hard to write a script that "creates" User accounts for everyone and then users go through the "Forgot Password" workflow to set their passwords. You'd get the list of all users from Mailman's API and then do a `get_or_create()` on each one of them (simplest of all approaches, you can ofcourse better ways to do the same). Ok, I'll look into this. Thanks for the https nudge also by the way, it is on my todo! cheers alex

7 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: Database running VERY hot

by Abhilash Raj

Hi Darren, On 3/8/18 9:43 AM, Darren Smith wrote: > Hello all, > > We had an old installation of Mailman 2.1 across three servers with over > 32,000 mailing lists on them. Due to circumstances beyond my control, we > had to shut them down and quickly set up Mailman 3 on a new server. > > We have Mailman3 set up on a single server this time, as we were having > problems with a 3-server setup and Hyperkitty and archives. Long story > short, it is up and running, and our users are starting to come back. > > However, we do not have very many users hitting Postorius and Hyperkitty > yet, and we are seeing a distressing number of 504 gateway timeouts. > > We noticed that there is a significant number of queries to the API > whenever hitting Postorius's front page to load the mailing lists, and then > on every load. It looks as if it makes a single call to the API to get > information about a single list, and does this 10 times - once for each > list - to render the page. This gets much worse when users set the view to > 200 per page, as they are inclined to do with 32,000 mailing lists... > > What we've done, actually, is to override the front page and point the > users to a different set of static pages where we have all of our lists > categorized and searchable, and when they find the list they are looking > for, we have a link back to postorius. It has taken a lot of the stress off > of the server. > > However, I still see where the database at times can run VERY hot. > > We have set up this server to run with PostgreSQL. When I do a ps aux | > grep postgres, I find a lot of processes that have been spawned to take > care of mailman - a dozen or so. However, one of the threads is taking up > about 85% of the load, another thread about 14%, and little dribbles here > and there from the rest of the threads. > > Here are the questions: > > 1) Has anyone run into problems like these? I would think that maybe this > is an issue having so many mailing lists, but honestly there aren't that > many people using the system yet. It is going to ramp up as the users > realize that we are live again, but we aren't getting that much traffic. I can say that in general, Postorius doesn't really optimize REST API queries and so loading a single page can sometimes make things bad. Currently, the largest installation of Mailman 3 that we know of runs at lists.fedoraproejct.org and the administrators of the list would know how well does our Web UI scale. However, I don't think we have anyone actively working on trying to fix this particular issue. Pull Requests and fixes are welcome :) > > 2) Is there any configuration that I can set, especially with regards to > the database, so that it can be used more efficiently and not throttle > through one or two threads? There isn't any configuration that would change how databases are used in Mailman Core. Django *may* have some, but I don't know about any of them of the top of my head. thanks, Abhilash

7 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Moving mm2 mail archives to mm3

by Abhilash Raj

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017, at 05:43 AM, Henrik Rasmussen wrote: > > See 'django-admin hyperkitty_import --help' for more info. This command is incomplete, you need to specify --settings path-to-settings.py or have DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE environment var setup. (I think settings.py in the previous command should be on PythonPATH). Alternatively, you can use `python manage.py hyperkitty_import --help`. > Is this also valid using Docker-mailman? I don't have a hyperkitty_import > django command. How do I import MM2 archives in Docker-MM3? > > # docker exec -it mailman-web bash Here you can do: bash-4.3# python manage.py hyperkitty_import --help You'd also need to put the archives somewhere it can be seen from insider the container. The best place I guess would be `/opt/mailman/web/` which is mounted at `/opt/mailman-web-data` from inside the mailman-web container. > bash-4.3# django-admin help > > Type 'django-admin help <subcommand>' for help on a specific subcommand. > > Available subcommands: > > [django] > check > compilemessages > createcachetable > dbshell > diffsettings > dumpdata > flush > inspectdb > loaddata > makemessages > makemigrations > migrate > runserver > sendtestemail > shell > showmigrations > sqlflush > sqlmigrate > sqlsequencereset > squashmigrations > startapp > startproject > test > testserver > Note that only Django core commands are listed as settings are not > properly configured (error: Requested setting INSTALLED_APPS, but > settings are not configured. You must either define the environment > variable DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE or call settings.configure() before > accessing settings.). > > -- > Henrik Rasmussen > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ -- thanks, Abhilash Raj

7 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Still unable to get mailman3 working on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS

by Mark Sapiro

On 1/9/22 3:26 AM, Michael Heseltine wrote: >> This isn't your immediate problem, but it is an issue. The above isn't >> too informative. What do you get if you run >> >> /opt/mailman/mm/bin/django-admin qcluster >> >> manually? > > I get the following: > >> # /opt/mailman/mm/bin/django-admin qcluster >> 11:50:41 [Q] INFO Q Cluster autumn-sixteen-tango-march starting. >> 11:50:41 [Q] INFO Process-1:1 ready for work at 3725610 >> 11:50:41 [Q] INFO Process-1:2 ready for work at 3725611 >> 11:50:42 [Q] INFO Process-1:3 ready for work at 3725612 >> 11:50:42 [Q] INFO Process-1:4 ready for work at 3725613 >> 11:50:42 [Q] INFO Process-1:5 monitoring at 3725614 >> 11:50:42 [Q] INFO Process-1 guarding cluster autumn-sixteen-tango-march >> 11:50:42 [Q] INFO Process-1:6 pushing tasks at 3725615 >> 11:50:42 [Q] INFO Q Cluster autumn-sixteen-tango-march running. > > And then nothing until I end the command with Ctrl-C. This is what I would expect. It seems to be working. I'm not sure why it fails when run from systemd. Are you running memcached? systemctl status memcached.service That needs to be installed and running for qcluster. > Sorry, I didn't realize that they were truncated. Here are ( I hope) the full logs from /var/log/syslog: > >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists systemd[1]: Started GNU Mailman web interfaces. >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: !!! >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: !!! WARNING: configuration file should have a valid Python extension. >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: !!! >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: Traceback (most recent call last): >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 209, in run >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: self.sleep() >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 357, in sleep >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: ready = select.select([self.PIPE[0]], [], [], 1.0) >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 242, in handle_chld >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: self.reap_workers() >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 525, in reap_workers >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: raise HaltServer(reason, self.WORKER_BOOT_ERROR) >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: gunicorn.errors.HaltServer: <HaltServer 'Worker failed to boot.' 3> >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred: >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: Traceback (most recent call last): >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/bin/gunicorn", line 14, in <module> >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: sys.exit(gunicorn.app.wsgiapp.run()) >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/app/wsgiapp.py", line 67, in run >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: WSGIApplication("%(prog)s [OPTIONS] [APP_MODULE]").run() >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/app/base.py", line 231, in run >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: super().run() >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/app/base.py", line 72, in run >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: Arbiter(self).run() >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 229, in run >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: self.halt(reason=inst.reason, exit_status=inst.exit_status) >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 342, in halt >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: self.stop() >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 393, in stop >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: time.sleep(0.1) >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 242, in handle_chld >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: self.reap_workers() >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 525, in reap_workers >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: raise HaltServer(reason, self.WORKER_BOOT_ERROR) >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: gunicorn.errors.HaltServer: <HaltServer 'Worker failed to boot.' 3> >> Jan 8 21:24:58 lists systemd[1]: gunicorn.service: Main process exited, code=exited, status=1/FAILURE >> Jan 8 21:24:58 lists systemd[1]: gunicorn.service: Failed with result 'exit-code'. I'm not sure about this one either. You might want to look at https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24488891/gunicorn-errors-haltserver-hal… or other hits from https://www.google.com/search?q=gunicorn+worker+failed+to+boot Are your files /etc/systemd/system/gunicorn.service /opt/mailman/mm/bin/gunicorn opt/mailman/mm/gunicorn.conf the same as recommended at https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%203%20installation%20experience?action=At… https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%203%20installation%20experience?action=At… https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%203%20installation%20experience?action=At… -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman 3 localization

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Simon Hanna writes: > > We would like to contribute further german translations, since there > > are still some parts missing, e.g. in the postorious interface. Would > > https://translations.launchpad.net/mailman/3.0/+pots/mailman/de/+translate > > be the right place to do so, so that everybody could use our > > translations? I don't think that is the right place to do it, because I'm sure Ubuntu lags our releases by quite a bit. Obviously on Launchpad you should translate for their releases. > I wanted to set it up, but the requirement is to use a free hosted > solution. If by "free" you mean we can't afford to pay for a service, that's probably not true. If by "free" you mean the services you mention operate on non-free software, yes, RMS would indeed give us bat-guano about that, but it's not a 100% requirement. We did use Jira for some services for several years. So the main issue would be how long Abhilash is willing to put up with rms-guano. > I tried out zanata.org but it's extremely slow... > The other option at the time was pootle > (http://pootle.translatehouse.org) which doesn't offer hosting but some > folks at gnu had a customized instance set up, but they discontinued the > service. > I [...] found weblate.org. We (fvo "we" not limited to Simon) should keep an eye on these. However, I don't think translations are a high priority for the developers in general yet. But with Abhilash saying a release of 3.2 in the near future, we should strongly consider making it a priority for 3.3. (IMO YMMV TINLA ;-) Steve

7 years

[MM3-users] Re: Single-Sign-out for List member

by Mark Sapiro

On 8/13/20 7:45 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > That said, I have some ideas for how to make this safe for corporate > Germany, specifically, keep a database of user-specific OTKs. (These > could be time-limited -- with the server returning a "use a more > recent message's URL message -- or permanent.) For the usera/userb > reasons Mark gives, and the preview-url reason you give, this is > *still* not going to be safe for discussion lists. But if the From: > is <noreply(a)DeutscheKompany.co.de>, so you have to shoulder surf and > have a photographic memory to get the user's unsubscribe URL, it > should be reasonably secure for announce lists and newsletters. I have experience with a one way email newsletter from Constant Contact. These have a link to unsubscribe and also a link to forward the email to someone else. We ultimately added our own ``` If you want to forward this email, please press the Constant Contact "Forward this email" link below. If you use your "forward" button, you might be unsubscribed. ``` note just above those links because people were forwarding the mail and getting unsubscribed when the person they forwarded it to clicked the unsubscribe link. The real pain is once a user is unsubscribed in this way, the mailing manager can't add her back. She has to personally deal with Constant Contact do get them to remove her from their "do not mail this address" list. FWIW, our note seems to help reduce if not eliminate the problem. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Problems with mailman core translation and other details

by celi＠dieese.org.br

Hi. We did a fresh install of the Debian Mailman 3 full package. I'd like all components to be translated into pt_BR. I downloaded the latest updated translations from weblate, which says that 100% of the project (all components) are translated. I checked and recompiled mailman.po with msgfmt without errors. I followed all instructions I saw, included the ones from the topic How to change the language in mailman3 in this list. Everything almost OK, except from the fact that none of mailman's core email messages are being translated, even though mailman.po shows the right messages. Also, strange things happen to these .po files. The web interface is almost perfect, but some messages (just some) are not correct - although the corresponding django.po appears to be OK. It´s the case below: the pair msgid/msgstr seems to be OK, but this particular sentence is not being translated. #: templates/postorius/lists/summary.html:88 #, python-format msgid "" "\n" " To subscribe you can send an email with 'subscribe' in the " "subject to\n" " <a href=\"mailto:%(address)s?subject=Subscribe\">" "%(address)s</a>\n" " or use the form below:\n" " " msgstr "" "\n" " Para se inscrever você pode enviar um e-mail com o assunto " "'subscribe' para\n" " <a href=\"mailto:%(address)s?subject=Subscribe\">" "%(address)s</a>\n" " ou use o formulário abaixo:\n" What am I doing wrong? Or what can I do to make things suitable? Additional info: GNU Mailman 3.3.3 (Tom Sawyer) Python 3.9.2 (default, Feb 28 2021, 17:03:44) [GCC 10.2.1 20210110] Postorius v. 1.3.4 HyperKitty v. 1.3.4 Thanx for any help

1 year, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Can't post to my own list from HyperKitty

by MegaBrutal

Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> ezt írta (időpont: 2025. ápr. 7., H, 2:05): > On 4/6/25 16:00, MegaBrutal via Mailman-users wrote: > > I get a composition dialog and can type my message, but when I click > send, > > I get the error message: „This list is moderated, please subscribe to it > > before posting.”. Upon reply, a red rectangle appears to enclose this > > message. Upon trying to create a new thread, a white page loads which > only > > contains this error message. > > In that composition dialog below the text box, it should say > ``` > This message will be sent as: user(a)example.com Link another address > If you aren't a current list member, sending this message will subscribe > you. > ``` > > No, it doesn't say anything like that. It says if I'm not subscribed, sending the message would subscribe me – no address is shown there at all. > > What do you see in Django's logs when you do this? > >> > > > > I don't know where to look – I don't see anything outstanding, only a few > > HTTP requests appear in mailman.log on mailman side and uwsgi.log on web > > side. None of these indicate any error. > > > If you configured your settings.py per > > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html#initial-configu… > your Django log which is where HyperKitty logs is at > /opt/mailman/web/logs/mailmanweb.log. However, I don't think there will > be anything useful there. Yeah, I checked that, nothing useful.

3 months, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Correct way to filter auto-replies to list?

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Gary Holman writes: > I have seen a few messages on this list regarding handling 'out of > office' auto-replies. However I do not see a final resolution. This problem is as hard as spam. There won't be a final resolution as long as people use out-of-office auto-replies. They're all different. If you are using a spam filter, I would suggest adding the offender's out of office message (or at least the spike protein :-) to your filter's body text blacklist. > What is the best practice to filter auto-replies to list: header > filter or postfix milter-reject or something else? You write "auto-replies" below. Set the subscriber to no-mail, or unsubscribe them for a second offense. Remind them that we put a huge amount of effort into creating and maintaining Postorius to make that as convenient as possible, and we at Mailman are "shock, SHOCKED, I tell you" that this courtesy was neglected. :-) > We are running dockerized Mailman 3 version 1.3.4. A list user > auto-replied their vacation message to list and then the listserv "listserv" is a trademark. Please don't use it to refer to Mailman. > created a chain-reaction of continuously replying to auto-replies > by that user. What do you mean by "chain reaction"? Other subscribers replying to the "out of office" message, or an auto-reply from the Mailman server? > There isn't really a good header option to filter > from, as the subject seems to be randomized. Vacation programs conforming to https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3834 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5230 should provide some header fields to filter on. HTH, Steve

4 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] dedicated mailman3 list server on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS - questions after installation

by John Seifarth

My goal is to build a stable dedicated list server using mailman3. It should use all current email authentication techniques to clearly show that it is an authentic non-spam mail list server. In the future, I may want to use the REST interface, so that’s why mailman2 is not an option. My installation: Installed Ubuntu 18.04 LTS server, with postfix, mysql and postgres. I then installed mail-stack-delivery, postfix-policyd-spf-python, OpenDKIM, and OpenDMARC. I configured SPF, DKIM, and DMARC records on my DNS server, and then configured postfix and dovecot to DKIM sign outgoing mail from local users, and check SPF, DMARC, and DKIM on incoming mail. I then installed the package mailman3-full, which provides version 3.1.1-9, using postgres 10 as the database. I have looked in Ubuntu bionic-backports and bionic-updates and do not see a more recent version. I see that version 3.2 was released in July, are debian/ubuntu mailman 3.2 packages available somewhere? I set up the /etc/mailman3 files: I added this to the end of mailman.cfg [archiver.hyperkitty] class: mailman_hyperkitty.Archiver enable: yes configuration: /etc/mailman3/mailman-hyperkitty.cfg In mailman-hyperkitty.cfg I copied the api_key: value from mailman-web.py MAILMAN_ARCHIVER_KEY, but removed the single quotes surrounding the value in the mailman-web.py file when writing the key in the mailman-hyperkitty.cfg file. I modified /etc/postfix/main.cf with this appended to the end: # Mailman-postfix integration owner_request_special = no # Support the default VERP delimiter. recipient_delimiter = + unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550 owner_request_special = no transport_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman3/data/postfix_lmtp local_recipient_maps = proxy:unix:passwd.byname, $alias_maps, hash:/var/lib/mailman3/data/postfix_lmtp relay_domains = ${{$compatibility_level} < {2} ? {$mydestination} : {}} hash:/var/lib/mailman3/data/postfix_domains I ran /usr/share/mailman3-web/manage.py createsuperuser I ran a2enmod proxy_uwsgi I made a symbolic link from /etc/mailman3/apache.conf to /etc/apache2/conf-available/mailman3.conf, then ran a2enconf mailman3 I have read the documentation in /usr/share/docs/mailman3* along with what I could find concerning mailman3 on the web. The installation allows me to sign into the web interface, create a host, create mailing lists, and mass subscribe members. When members send email to the list address, the server sends the messages normally to the other members of the list. However, when I look at the list archives, there are no posts. I deliberately mass-subscribed an invalid address, and I can see in /var/log/mail.log that the message bounces, but I get no notification, nor do I see any bounce info when I look at the member info. My questions: 1) logging A lot of my questions would probably be answered if I could figure out hot to activate logging correctly. Currently, I see: root@mailman:/var/log/mailman3# ll -R -rw-rw---- 1 list list 0 Jul 29 20:06 bounce.log -rw-rw---- 1 list list 0 Jul 29 20:06 debug.log -rw-r----- 1 list list 3298 Aug 4 00:00 mailman.log -rw-rw---- 1 list list 34606 Jul 30 17:44 smtp.log drwxr-xr-x 2 www-data www-data 4096 Aug 3 06:25 web/ ./web: -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data www-data 1520 Aug 3 06:25 mailman-web.log The bounce log and debug log are empty. I’ve set propagate: yes in the [logging.debian] section From /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg # In this section, you can define defaults for all loggers, which will be # prefixed by 'mailman.'. Use subsections to override settings for specific # loggers. The names of the available loggers are: # # - archiver -- All archiver output # - bounce -- All bounce processing logs go here # - config -- Configuration issues <…snip…> Can anyone post an example of a ‘subsection’ to set archiver and bounce to debug? Do I have to create /var/log/mailman3/mailman.archiver.log and set ownership to list:list? 2) Where are posts stored? For me, this is the biggest mystery in mailman3. Local mail is delivered to ~/Maildir by dovecot. In the $var_dir hierarchy the directory messages contains just 2 messages dating to my initial tests. Anything I send to a list now, and which seems to be sent properly to the member addresses, I cannot find on the filesystem. Any clues as to what may be going on here? 3) Archival - Hyperkitty How does this work? All the parts seem to be in place, and I can see from ps /usr/bin/python3 /usr/lib/mailman3/bin/runner --runner=archive:0:1 -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg How can I figure out why this is not working? In the web interface, I see that each of my lists has zero posts. But posts mailed to the list address do appear in the list members’ mailboxes! 4) Bounces I’ve deliberately put an erroneous email address as a list member. In postfix’s /var/log/mail.log I see the bounces, but get no notification, and /var/log/mailman3/bounce.log remains empty. 5) DKIM and DMARC I’ve got OpenDKIM running on inet:12345@localhost and OpenDMARC running on net:54321@localhost. How can I get mailman to use these milters and sign messages? How should DMARC munging be configured when signing? 6) Is there an overview of how mailman3 works? Is there documentation which explains the path of an incoming post through the system, including initial reception, list processing, sending to members, processing bounces, and archiving posts? Thanks in advance for help and pointers to any available documentation! John Seifarth Words & Wires SPRL Computer Consulting & Language Services Brussels, Belgium

6 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Migrating Mailman 3 lists

by Abhilash Raj

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020, at 8:52 AM, Brian Carpenter wrote: > Hello Mailman users, > > I know how to migrate mailman 2 lists to a new mailman 3 server. However > I do not know how to migrate a mailman 3 list from one mailman 3 server > to another one. Are there any instructions or protocol on how to > accomplish this? The Mailman 3 server I want to migrate *from* was setup > using Docker. The Mailman 3 server I want to migrate these lists *to* > was setup using a python virtual environment via pip. If you can backup and migrate the database, that should do all of the Web stuff (except search index & logs) and most of the Core data. You'd need to additionally move the `var/` directory if you want to digests/logs/pending emails. If you don't need any of the digests/logs/pending emails in various queue, you should be able to migrate just by moving the database. There was an issue[1] that was created recently where the digests would fail if the directory structure in the `var/` directory wasn't re-created automatically, so you might have to preserve that data structure. [1]: https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/699 > > -- > Please let me know if you need further assistance. > > Thank you for your business. We appreciate our clients. > Brian Carpenter > EMWD.com > > -- > EMWD's Knowledgebase: > https://clientarea.emwd.com/index.php/knowledgebase > > EMWD's Community Forums > http://discourse.emwd.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

5 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: problems installing mailman3 under gentoo and upgrading mailman2 to mailman3

by John Covici

On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 22:51:46 -0500, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > On 3/13/21 7:08 PM, John Covici wrote: > > On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 16:22:59 -0500, > > Abhilash Raj wrote: > >> > >> My guess is that you updated the database (perhaps, by invoking the mailman > >> command form 3.3.3) and then tried to start 3.3.2. In this case, Mailman comes > >> up and sees a new revision for the database migration added from 3.3.3 but > >> can’t find the same migration in its source (because it is 3.3.2). > > > > That is sort of what happened, except in the opposite direction, it > > was from 3.3.3 to 3.3.2. My question is therefore, do I have to > > update this alembic_version when I upgrade mailman to a newer version? > > That is what I was getting at. > > > Abhilash's conjecture is that the error was due to a Mailman version > accessing a database that had been previously accessed by a newer > version so that the version_num in the alembic_version table didn't > exist in mailman/database/alembic/versions/. This normally would not > occur on an upgrade of Mailman, but if you went from a gentoo Mailman > core to a version obtained by pip, it's possible that the gentoo Mailman > had an alembic version that wasn't known to the pip Mailman even though > the pip Mailman was newer. > OK, thanks. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici wb2una covici(a)ccs.covici.com

4 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: spf/dkim/dmarc

by Andrew Hodgson

Hi Stephen. Based on the conversation we had last week regarding you using Google Workspace as your smarthost, are you sure that it can't do the DKIM signing for you? With my Office365 acting as smarthost (see other post I made today), I had to turn off DKIM signing in my MTA as the Office365 was adding its own DKIM headers. Thanks. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Daniel <swd(a)pobox.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2023 3:05 PM To: Jeremy Stanley <fungi(a)yuggoth.org> Cc: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org Subject: [MM3-users] Re: spf/dkim/dmarc Thanks all! On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 10:03 AM Jeremy Stanley <fungi(a)yuggoth.org> wrote: > On 2023-05-17 09:56:06 -0400 (-0400), Stephen Daniel wrote: > > Duh. I use Postfix running on the same machine as mm3 as my MTA. > [...] > > I don't use Postfix, but I asked a Web search engine (DuckDuckGo) for > "configure dkim signing in postfix" and got many informative hits for > various versions, platforms and distributions. Perhaps if you do that > you'll get similar results and can find instructions which most > closely match your deployment specifics. Best of luck! > -- > Jeremy Stanley > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To > unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > Archived at: > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/me > ssage/B3J7FLZMVKFX35UWJSPQ5Y2MN2F46WND/ > > This message sent to swd(a)pobox.com > _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ Archived at: https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… This message sent to andrew(a)hodgson.io

2 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: Edit archived email? Is it possible?

by Prasanth Nair

Hi Mark, As you know, we can edit the individual messages using the message_id_hash. Is there any possibility that we can edit the original message which then updates all of the threads it has (for example, if someone already replied to the original message)? Or do we need to edit each message manually? Kind regards, Prasanth On Wed, 29 Sept 2021 at 15:46, Prasanth Nair <prasanth.nair(a)linaro.org> wrote: > Hi Mark, > > Many thanks for your help. I have managed to modify some of the messages > after following your instructions. > > Kind regards, > Prasanth > > On Wed, 29 Sept 2021 at 08:08, Prasanth Nair <prasanth.nair(a)linaro.org> > wrote: > >> Hi Mark, >> >> Thank you for your help. Let me try this. >> >> Kind regards, >> Prasanth >> >> On Tue, 28 Sept 2021 at 18:03, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: >> >>> On 9/28/21 6:02 AM, Prasanth Nair wrote: >>> > Hello, >>> > >>> > Does anyone know how to edit an archived email in Mailman3? It is >>> possible >>> > in Mailman2 ( >>> > >>> https://wiki.list.org/DOC/How%20do%20I%20edit%20the%20archives%20of%20a%20M… >>> ). >>> > Is there any option similar to this in Mailman3? >>> >>> >>> In some sense the process is the same but possibly even simpler in >>> Mailman 3. You need to modify the underlying data which requires >>> appropriate access to the server. >>> >>> In Mailman 3, the data are in the hyperkitty_email table in Mailman's >>> database. You can get the Message-ID hash from the URL to the archived >>> message, e.g. for the message to which I'm replying, the URL is >>> >>> https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… >>> and the hash is 7PVJL23DLSWMXXL44ALQUO6VSYBRZ4OA. Then if you have >>> access, you can do database queries like >>> ``` >>> SELECT subject, content FROM hyperkitty_email WHERE message_id_hash = >>> '7PVJL23DLSWMXXL44ALQUO6VSYBRZ4OA'; >>> ``` >>> and >>> ``` >>> UPDATE hyperkitty_email SET content = '<new content>' WHERE >>> message_id_hash = '7PVJL23DLSWMXXL44ALQUO6VSYBRZ4OA'; >>> UPDATE hyperkitty_email SET subject = '<new subject>' WHERE >>> message_id_hash = '7PVJL23DLSWMXXL44ALQUO6VSYBRZ4OA'; >>> ``` >>> If the message has attachments, they are in the hyperkitty_attachment >>> table and can be referenced by `email_id` which is the corresponding >>> `id` from the hyperkitty_email entry. >>> >>> You can also do similar things via `django-admin shell`. E.g. >>> ``` >>> $ django-admin shell >>> Python ... >>> (InteractiveConsole) >>> >>> from hyperkitty.models.email import Email >>> >>> x = >>> Email.objects.filter(message_id_hash='7PVJL23DLSWMXXL44ALQUO6VSYBRZ4OA') >>> >>> print(x[0].content) >>> ``` >>> but this requires some knowledge of HyperKitty's models and Django's ORM. >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, >>> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org >>> https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ >>> >>

3 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Change language to welcome message in mailman3

by Mark Sapiro

On 7/24/20 2:10 PM, Massimo Zappalà wrote: > Hi everyone, > > My Version installed on Debian buster: > mailman3: 3.2.1 > postorius: 1.2.4 > hyperkitty: 1.2.2 > > All interfaces work well in Italian language, but "Welcome message" is in English. First question: Is the Subject: in English or Italian? If the Subject: is in English you need to compile the Italian message catalog as I described in my reply at <https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message…>. Then, as far as the message body is concerned, it is built from a template. At present, in the Mailman source distribution, the only templates that are translated are French and German You will find the complete set of English templates at /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/mailman/templates/en/. You have choices. 1) You can create /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/mailman/templates/it/ and make Italian translations of all the English templates in the it/ directory in files of the same names, and submit a merge request at <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/merge_requests> to merge them into the source distribution. If you are not familiar with software development in general and Mailman development in particular, this is probably beyond what you can do. 2) Find Mailman's var/ directory. This is the directory containing archives/, data/, etc/, lists/, locks/, logs/ and perhaps other sub-directories. You then need to create the full path to var/templates/site/it/ and place Italian translations of some or all the templates there. When doing so, you can add site customizations. 3) You can use Postorius to create templates for individual lists. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years

[MM3-users] Re: upgrading in FreeBSD 13.1-p7: problem with aiosmtpd and lmtp runner

by Guillermo Hernandez (Oldno7)

El 2/4/23 a las 11:12, Odhiambo Washington escribió: > On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 11:35 AM Guillermo Hernandez (Oldno7) via > Mailman-users<mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> wrote: > >> It seems that FreeBSD is handling IPv6 in a way that other OSs dont. It >> surprise me, because FreeBSD was the first OS where IPv6 was deployed, >> but it is what it is. >> >> Thaks to everybody for your patience, specially Odhiambo and Mark. >> > @Guillermo Hernandez (Oldno7)<guillermo(a)querysoft.es> > > Thanks for the update. However, I don't think I would entirely blame > FreeBSD for this. As Mark pointed out, something did not upgrade completely. I'm NOT blaming any of the parts involved... Sure, most probably is my fault. But the last upgrade shows that the process that fail is involved with mailman upgrade. The last server was working smoothly and it has higher traffic than the first I tried. It cannot be that I missed that something was not working for weeks (since the last upgrade of the OS) > This could be some quirk within your FreeBSD ports and you may need to > ensure everything related to your Python version is updated. It could be... but since a year ago I configured a poudriere repository and Im updating from packages, not from ports. But this do not discards your guess > Why am I saying this? > I am running MM3 in a virtualenv on FreeBSD (13.1-p6) and I did upgrade to > the bleeding-edge MM3 by running all components from git, and I don't have > this problem you had. Not the same version exactly though. But similar enough > Could you possibly fully update your Python libraries by following the > entry dated 20220626 in /usr/ports/UPDATING? Could you run all the steps, > do away with the workaround, and see if that fixes the issue? I switched to python 3.9 in early 2022 (or it could be 2021?), that updating point is not applicable here. All my python apps are 3.9. And therefore it would not explain why a server which was working perfectly before this mailman3 upgrade, was falling in this strange IPv6 problem after. > > PS: I don't even think many people are running MM3 on FreeBSD, leave alone > from the ports. Well... leaving FreeBSD for apparently greener paths in my servers is not something I'm planning to do. They are running some FreeBSD version since 1993... and then, they are working. I'm not running MM3 from the ports, I installed every bit of it from python tools. > I have come to learn that even in Linux, using the distro's > packages is usually problematic. Again, I don't install from any distro package > Running MM3 from virtualenv is quite safe and to be honest, you can migrate > your setup from where it is now to a virtualenv and you will not lose > anything. And I cannot deny it... but I'm already under one layer of virtualization... the mailman servers run in a jail environment. I don't want to add more layers if I can avoid it. Thank you very much for your pointings. Regards > -- ___________________________________________ Mailman's content filtering has removed the following MIME parts from this message. Content-Type: image/png Name: firma-GHP-emails.png Replaced multipart/alternative part with first alternative.

2 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Implementing threading [was: hyperkitty failed to create a thread]

by Stephen J. Turnbull

tlhackque writes: > No. It's not an address. "local part" has to do with an address. in a > Message-ID, It's syntactically a local-part or other stuff. RFC 5322: 4.5.4. Obsolete Identification Fields The obsolete "In-Reply-To:" and "References:" fields differ from the current syntax in that they allow phrase (words or quoted strings) to appear. The obsolete forms of the left and right sides of msg-id allow interspersed CFWS, making them syntactically identical to local-part and domain, respectively. > It's in "id-left", which is a supposed to be something generated by the > host that makes the message unique within the namespace defined by > "id-right". Right, those are the *semantics recommended to implementers*, for the reasons which you summarize accurately. But a validating parser doesn't care about that. > Treat the whole thing as an opaque string. Nothing else is safe. s/else// and I'll agree with you. But safety is not an issue in threading (except for DoS if the procedure might be non-terminating; I suppose you could argue DoS if a user misses out-of-order mail from their boss and gets fired). > Yes, but did you fix the References header to match? Of course I did. That was long before I was a Mailman developer and started reading the RFCs, of course. > My quote was verbatim. 5537 does say you must trim. The point is > that the news rfcs may have introduced References, but they have > different obstacles to reconstructing threading. I don't think that's right, because mail suffers from the same line length restriction, with no exception for References. Mail has strictly more specification bugs. :-( > I haven't looked at that. Given the trimming in 3.4.4 of 5337, I > don't see how this can be produce the whole thread, unless you are > guaranteed to have the complete thread to fill the gaps. It can't because you aren't. But it seems unlikely that anybody is producing msg-ids longer than 74 characters, so 998/(74+1) = 13 is a long enough gap that you probably don't care that they're the same thread. At least not in any forum I participate in! > Plus, you can lose messages for strange reasons: The moderator > deleted one for inappropriate content. A message was copied to the > list and the poster. The response to the list is lost. But a > reply from the poster happens later. So the response in question > is never seen by the server, though the reference is. Life is hard > :-) > Sure, but Jamie's algorithm *will get that right* as long as all messages have a semantically correct In-Reply-To or References, and at least one descendent of the missing message mentions both it and its parent. What remains is a UI question: missing message placeholder, to display or not to display? > Heuristics are fine. Guaranteeing that the resulting algorithm > terminates is important. But real life doesn't get you to "enough > messages" 100% of the time. 100% isn't necessary. If the thread is sufficiently broken that Jamie's msg-id-based procedure doesn't work, his full algorithm falls back to your idea of collecting the singletons by subject and sorting. (He doesn't specify the ordering criteria, rather what objects (= subthreads of the same parent) are to be compared. Your suggestion of date seems most appropriate for the leftovers.) > > > See my other post. The left and right halves can, besides being atoms, > > > be non-folding quotes or literals. So you have to handle that. > > > > Of course, but that's just a SMOP. The harder problem is figuring out > > what to do about non-conforming input. > And, as I've noted: lost input. Lost input does not prevent thread reconstruction as long as (1) all messages have a Message-ID, (2) "enough" messages have a non-empty References containing "enough" msg-ids, (3) those References do not misorder the msg-ids or introduce msg-ids corresponding to messages not in the thread. It should be obvious why I don't want to define "enough" (except in terms like "enough means Jamie's algorithm can reconstruct the thread" ;-), but in particular losing *one* message will certainly not prevent reconstruction. > When they don't, trying to guess at the semantics of an opaque ID will > seem to work for a while. But it amounts to the halting problem. There > are lots of variants of "generate a globally unique ID with an '@' in > the middle". I may have created a new one today :-) The problem I'm trying to address with the "stripping" is incorrect copying of msg-ids by MUAs that try to parse them, as we saw here. Apparently the bug was in Mailman itself, so it's not required (and a bad idea, I guess). > Yes. But if they're well-formed, the <> are there, so stripping them > only saves a couple of bytes. > > If they're not, all bets are off. <two<three(a)example.net> - stripping > the outer <>s doesn't help. > > <"two<three"@example.net> is a valid message-Id, > and distinct from <"twothree"@example.net. Sure. Is it likely? > <twothree(a)example.net> distinct from <"twothree"@example.net>? > (unnecessary quoting, or a distinct message-ID) If you treat it as > opaque, you don't care. Take the whole thing, <@> included, as given > and look for it in the other fields. The most you might do is remove > quotes (and escapes) and use the left and right parts as your key. Which is basically what my stripping and cleaning procedure would do. The question is "does it help or hurt, on net?" If there was a widely distributed MUA out there that doubled the delimiters, it would help. Since it was Mailman doing that and it will be fixed, it's a bad idea. > You could also fingerprint the user agent (e.g. by the order of headers, > format of message-ID), and correct for its bugs. But I'm inclined to > report client bugs and get them fixed. Meantime, their messages are > unthreaded (but not lost). It's just not worth working around other > people's bugs - there are better uses for your time. That's not my experience. See Reply-To munging. Depends on the bug, of course, but all too often people think it's our job to help them deal with bad MUA design. > Yes. A message ID should exist. These days I think all MTAs will assign > one if the client doesn't. > What I tried to say was that there will be times where you can't figure > out where to put a message into the thread graph (or forest). Because it > references message that you can't find, or it doesn't have a references > or reply-to, or those fields are corrupt. None of those prevent you from threading that message. The only reasons you won't be able to thread a message at all are when no other available message references it (eg, if several MUAs in a row supply In-Reply-To but not References, and the middle messages are missing or their identification fields are corrupt), and when there are References that have conflicting opinions on where that message belongs. Of course if a message lacks References and In-Reply-To it will be identified as a thread root (unless some descendent manually corrects References ;-). Even then it could be grafted into the tree more or less correctly using your sort on subject and date procedure. > These are heuristics - you might come up with better ones. Yours are already implemented in Pipermail, I believe, I'm not sure about HyperKitty. I don't think Jamie's algorithm messed with [name] and [serial number] because they weren't common at that time, but he stripped Re: and its nonconforming variants, as well as "Fwd:". > At least with an orphans bucket, you don't end up with "invisible" > messages. Nothing I suggested produces invisible messages, just a different set of orphans or occasionally a misthreaded message that seems to be a duplicate if different msg-ids are munged to the same string. At least not in Jamie's algorithm. I don't know exactly what algorithms are used in Pipermail and HyperKitty. Interesting discussion, but I've reached the point of diminishing returns. I will be checking to see if any of your suggestions are improvements over what HyperKitty currently does, for sure! Steve

6 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: import21: A string literal cannot contain NUL (0x00) characters.

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Henrik Rasmussen writes: > It seems that this issue is still unsolved. Is there any estimated > date for a fix? https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/issues/155 . Problem-oriented executive summary: Why do you think this is a problem that Mailman should solve? What is your desired treatment of this data? tl;dr for Unicode wonks and wonkabees: My personal take is similar to Simon's. Unicode NULs are rather dangerous, because any time you convert to an ASCII-compatible encoding and store it where a C routine can get at it, you risk data corruption when a C string function decides that the NUL is end-of-string, and ignores the tail of the string. To deal with NULs embedded in an array of C chars, you have to forego the whole suite of str*[1], *printf, etc stdlib functions and either (A) dive down to mem* functions, keeping accurate char[] lengths on the side, or (B) create a complete suite of array-handling functions that deal with this for you. I agree with Simon's guess that you probably have corrupted data or metadata that you're passing to HyperKitty. (By "corrupted metadata" I mean that you've got binary data labelled with "text", or that you have text encoded in something like UTF-16 that normally includes 0x00 *bytes* as a component of non-NUL *characters*, but labelled with an ASCII- compatible encoding such as ISO 8859/1. The latter is a common hack to insert binary data, or "any-encoded" text, into text databases.) This is based on the long tradition of avoiding NULs in string data based on both their standard interpretation as ASCII (memory padding which is to be *ignored*[2]) and the danger that they pose to C programs that use the C stdlib to handle "character" data. It's true that both Mailman 3 suite and Django are written in Python, which has implemented NUL-handling strategy (B) for us. However, Mailman suite eventually calls into a few C (or C++) libraries, especially the database backends, as in this issue. We can't do anything about those backends, of course. Filtering the incoming data is something we could do, I guess, but as Simon points out that would be pretty expensive, and filtering erroneous NULs silently would likely result in inserting corrupt data in the databases. If you're really sure that you have valid ASCII (or Unicode) NULs embedded in your text data, you could try configuring an alternative backend (both for Mailman core and for Django) that handles NULs as valid characters. I don't know if there are any, let alone whether we support any, though. Footnotes: [1] Including the strn* functions! They protect against buffer *overruns*, but NUL is still end-of-string. [2] Here's what ECMA-48 "Control Functions for Coded Character Sets", which I believe to be identical to ISO 6429 except that ECMA standards are free to read and ISO charges about $100 for this, says about NUL: 8.3.88 NUL - NULL Notation: (C0) Representation: 00/00 NUL is used for media-fill or time-fill. NUL characters may be inserted into, or removed from, a data stream without affecting the information content of that stream, but such action may affect the information layout and/or the control of equipment. Unicode doesn't say how to interpret NUL at all, but does recommend ISO 6429 as one good way to interpret control characters not otherwise dealt with in Unicode (and it's the only way that Unicode mentions).

7 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman rewrite the Cc header incorrectly

by Mark Sapiro

On 5/14/20 9:24 PM, Alan So wrote: > Just FYI. > > I omitted the "<" and ">" when I replace the real testing address with name(a)example.com. > > It should be, > > CC: "ABC DEF > (XYZ)" <name(a)example.com> Actually, you didn't omit them. It's just the way HyperKitty renders what it thinks is an email address that makes it appear they aren't there. If you download the thread from HyperKitty, you'll see they are there. Anyway I am unable to duplicate your issue with your example data. I sent this raw message ``` To: test(a)example.com From: Mark <mark(a)msapiro.net> Cc: abc def (ghi) <abc(a)example.com> "abc def (ghi)" <def(a)example.com> Subject: test Message-Id: <msgid(a)example.com> Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 09:22:12 -0700 Hi ``` and the message I received from the list included these headers ``` To: test(a)example.com From: Mark <mark(a)msapiro.net> Message-Id: <msgid(a)example.com> Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 09:22:12 -0700 CC: "abc def (ghi)" <abc(a)example.com>, "abc def (ghi)" <def(a)example.com> Subject: [List] test ``` I do observe something similar to what you report that has nothing to do with folding. If I omit the trailing ">" in an address as in ``` From: Mark <mark(a)msapiro.net ``` the address becomes ``` From: "Mark <mark"@msapiro.net ``` So possibly your issue involves missing angle brackets. In order to say more, I'd need to see the actual headers as sent and received or at least an accurate munged representation. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: Splitting hosts: mta&core vs postorius

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Ruth Ivimey-Cook writes: > On 6/22/20 6:23 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > By design, Mailman core doesn't need to talk to the Internet or to the > > secure internal network -- Internet functions are delegated to the MTA > > and the webapps, and local configuration is via shell access which in > > principle could be console. > > Sorry, I missed this earlier. I was more or less trying to describe what I thought you were trying to do, and noting that Mailman is designed for it. Thank you for the confirmation. > I am using exim and there is a big benefit when exim can see the > list directory names. Indeed. (I wrote the proof of concept Exim config for Mailman 3 on Debian.) But that's *all* it needs to see. It should be possible to get that information to Exim in some other way, perhaps through a small app that talks to the REST API. If that's generalizable to other MTAs (especially Postfix, but also Sendmail and maybe qmail) it's worth us looking into (and if it's Exim-specific, at this stage I'd say "patches welcome"). This is also the kind of thing that an NFS read-only mount does fine (of course you may not want NFS on a system in the DMZ :-/ ). > However, I find the mailman shell program not very intuitive, and so > would prefer to have the web app for admin purposes. By "local configuration" I mean anything that requires access to the .cfg files or installing code. Anything you can do via Postorius (or soon, via Affinity, hi Brian!) is not local configuration in this sense.

5 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Member Issue Discovered

by Brian Carpenter

On 11/5/20 12:20 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Brian Carpenter writes: > > > I think everyone should care that data should be removed when there is > > an expectation that it is being removed. > > I do care, and I agree that everyone should care. > > The difference is that I also think that everyone should care that > data *should not* be removed when there is an expectation that it > *will be retained*, and, therefore, that the base Mailman we > distribute should at least ask before deleting data as a side effect > of some other action. > > I don't see how I can make it plainer than that, so I'm done here. Well I am having the same difficulty. *With your statement here, let me ask you this:* 1. If someone subscribes to a public list, are they being notified that a user account is being created (by Mailman 3 core) as part of the subscription process? 2. When someone unsubscribes from mailing list, are they being notified that their data is being retained when they unsubscribe (by Mailman 3 core)? 3. When someone subscribes to a public list, are they being made aware that there is no way, for them, the subscriber, to remove their user data *except* if they also register an account through Postorius and then proceeds to delete that account along with them unsubscribing from a list? 4. Am I correct to assume when someone unsubscribes from all lists, AND deletes their Postorius/Django account, that all data on them is being removed? So please understand that questions 1-3 are for a scenario of a subscriber that is only subscribing to a SINGLE list and has not registered with Postorius/Django. Question 4 is dealing with someone who has multiple subscriptions AND is also a registered Postorius/Django user. *This is what I believe are valid reasons for an expectation that data being retained:* 1. A subscriber who is NOT a Postorius/Django user but has multiple subscriptions to various lists on the same Mailman 3 instance subscribes from a single list. They should expect their user data to be retained because they still have active subscriptions to other lists. 2. A subscriber who IS a registered Postorius/Django user is subscribed to a single list and unsubscribes from that single list but did NOT delete their Postorius/Django account. 3. A combination of 1&2. All I am requesting is that for single list subscribers who are not registered users of Postorius/Django, to have their user data totally removed when they unsubscribe. I simply fail to see how someone could claim a right to data retention when they unsubscribe from the one list that they were subscribed to. This is important to me because almost all of the list members of the lists that I host fall into this category: single list member who is not a registered user of Affinity/Postorius. > If you need help implementing the "delete everything" policy in > Affinity because of some insufficiency in the REST API, let me know > and I will make sure the REST API allows you to do that. But I'm > pretty sure it's already possible. It has already been done with Affinity and the REST API was sufficient to allow us to do that. Thanks for offering. > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ -- Brian Carpenter Harmonylists.com Emwd.com

4 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] why am I seeing "Access to the archiving API endpoint was forbidden"

by Dmitry Makovey

Running docker-based MM3 I get quite a few messages in mailmanweb.log: ERROR 2018-01-19 19:09:07,467 401 hyperkitty.views.mailman Access to the archiving API endpoint was forbidden from IP 172.19.199.1, your MAILMAN_ARCHIVER_FROM setting may be misconfigured which points to the docker host making those requests. But I have no scripts/code dunning on host to do that. I've posted to this list earlier (see "mailman-web: ResponseNotReady" and "Getting connection refused on postfix trying to connect to mailman-core:lmtp") my woes with public vs private IPs in my setup and my "hack" was to set up docker-compose with explicit domainname and hostname: mailman-core: domainname: my.com hostname: mailman ... networks: mailman: aliases: - mailman.my.com where mailman.my.com is the public IP of the service. so I think I'm in the weird state where mailman-core container starts off communication on a private docker IP and finishes it off on what it thinks is public someplace... not sure where is that coming from. I ran a cross-ping for all containers to confirm they all see only private IPs and they do: core, web & nginx cross-pinging each-other and mailman.my.com all show private docker IPs so why would any packet be routed from external? can I allow more than a single IP for MAILMAN_ARCHIVER_FROM ? ITMT I've moved MAILMAN_ARCHIVER_FROM to settings_local.py and hardwired it to be 172.199.19.1 and I believe there are no errors in log files... but again - that's a lot of tiptoeing and tapdancing around the IP assignment in docker so I'm looking for input to simplify the setup. -- Sr System and DevOps Engineer SoM IRT

7 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: HyperKitty/Mailman3 issues

by Mark Sapiro

On 11/22/18 2:58 AM, Florian Schulze wrote: > Hi! > > I tried setting up Scheduled Tasks as described in > <http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-web.html#scheduled-tasks-required> > > but the "runjobs" command can't be found. I see the hyperkitty and > mailman commands when using "help". Does "help" show a list under [django_extensions] including runjob and runjobs? Is 'django-extensions' in the list of INSTALLED_APPS in your Django settings? > The "qcluster" service is working. > > Using Django 2.1.1 and HyperKitty 1.2.1. > > Maybe related to that, I have two issues with archives. > > 1. Changing the archiving setting in the Web-UI to something else than > public seems to have no effect. The already archived messages are still > accessible in public. This is related. It is one of the "daily" jobs that updates this. Note that changing to "private" will require login after the "daily" jobs run, but changing to "do not archive" will leave the existing archive accessible. > 2. Related to 1., how can I remove a list archive without affecting > other lists? There's no easy way. For the "prototype" archiver, the archives for a list are in var/archives/prototype/listname(a)example.com/ and that directory can be removed, but that doesn't affect HyperKitty. HyperKitty's archives are in the Mailman database and multiple tables are involved. One could try just removing the row for the list from the hyperkitty_mailinglist table. That may render the list's archive inaccessible via the web UI, but I have no idea what would be broken by doing this. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

6 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Post-installation documentation?

by Mark Sapiro

On 11/25/21 10:56 AM, David Newman wrote: > > Thanks for this. After setting these variables and restarting mailman3 > and mailmanweb, the mailman user still cannot find a hyperkitty_import > command (neither can root, btw). Again, I installed MM3 and > Django/Postorius/Hyperkitty using the venv and web docs previously > referenced. Don't run mailman or django admin commands as root. This causes issues when files are created by root and can't be read by mailman. What django admin command are you running? If you don't set DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE in the environment and you have activated your virtualenv and run `mailman-web` as the django admin command it will set /etc/mailman3/settings.py as the settings. > On the plus side, all lists now appear in the admin web page. However, > lists created from the admin page do not appear in a site list page, > even though all lists are in the same site/domain. By default, only lists that you are owner, moderator or subscriber for are shown. What if you click Filter by Role and select All? > Finally, how to make these exports permanent? I did not see this covered > in the migration doc above. This is on a Debian system where the mailman > user's shell is bash. Is this simply a matter of adding environment > variables in the mailman user's .bashrc file? You can do that but as I note above, if you run `mailman-web` you shouldn't need to. You can add a `source /opt/mailman/venv/bin/activate` command as mentioned at https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html#activate-virtua…. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: mailman3 not working for mailman21 lists

by Diana von Bidder

Hi Stephen On Mon, 2022-08-22 at 23:51 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > blup(a)fortytwo.ch writes: > > Try queue/, especially look for the out[going], pipeline, and shunt > subdirectories. I have several entries in /var/lib/mailman3/queue/shunt/ with Aug 21 timestamps, and several entries in /var/lib/mailman3/queue/shunt/ with current timestamp (i.e. everytime I ls -l there is a new timestamp with the current time). > > > Is the 'outgoing' qrunner still running? (ps ax | grep outgoing) > > > > no > > Sorry, I got that wrong. Mark recommends this: > > ps -fwwA|grep runner=|sed s/.*runner=// > > and gave this as sample output: [..] My output looks exactly the same. > > I have more or less no Python knowledge (i.e. I can read and > > understand Python but can't write it). Could you please give me > > detailed command by command instructions. Thanks. > > I'll take a look at it tomorrow, but I can't promise results until > the weekend if I can't write a script in 30 minutes. Normally Mark > Sapiro would handle this kind of thing, but he's offline for a couple > weeks so you've got me. My knowledge is mostly on the email > protocols side of things (Internet message format, authentication > protocols), not the internal processing. I'll do what I can, but if > I can't do it real quick it's probably going to take me several > hours, which I'm not going to have until the weekend. Having something by the weekend would be perfectly fine. Thanks for your time! Regards Diana

2 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Huge performance issue: Mailman doesn't (seem to) receive any mails.

by Abhilash Raj

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019, at 8:14 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 9/18/19 3:32 AM, Henrik Rasmussen wrote: > > I am running maxking/mailman-*:0.2 (GNU Mailman 3.2.0 (La Villa Strangiato)). > > > > It looks like Mailman is not receiving (enough) mails, but are keps in the Postfix queue and I can't figure out why. > > > > I get a lot of "mail for [172.19.199.2]:8024 is using up 7841 of 7841 active queue entries" in the postfix container log (more postfix log at the buttom. > > > I know nothing about Docker containers and how they communicate with > each other, but Postfix is trying to deliver mail via lmtp to > [172.19.199.2]:8024. Mailman's lmtp runner should be running and > listening on port 8024. Either that is not the case or that port is not > exposed to Postfix on IP 172.19.199.2. Right, that is what I was wondering, you verify that by using telnet on the specified IP and Port (172.19.199.2:8024). `docker-compose ps` lists all the running containers, do you see all the containers running? You mentioned that Mailman is not receiving enough emails, do you get *any* emails from Mailman? I am trying to see if this is a perf problem or if Mailman's LMTP isn't reachable at all. > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

5 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: How to delete non-users

by Allan Hansen

Hi Mark, Thank you for looking into it. We are very strict about memberships, which we are because of spam, bots and malicious contributors and because we don't want anyone to think that our lists are used for spam: When a user applies, the server sends a message to the moderator. The moderator communicates with the potential member and accepts or does not accept the application. At this point, if the user has not been accepted, but tried to send a message to the list, a non-member membership is created. When he/she logs in to list his/her account, the list to which he/she holds non-memberships will be listed and the user will think that he/she has been properly subscribed (why else are the lists listed). Noone notices the column that shows the role as 'nonmember.' So he/she thinks that the subscription request has been accepted, but nothing is working. That's why the 'non-member' record is an issue. I also don't see why non-members are automatically added, filling up the database with junk (at least from our point of view, with all respect). But our lists don't accept messages from non-members. Such messages are quietly discarded, as most are spam, as mentioned above. So now the user is neither getting emails from the lists nor is unable to send messages to the list. The next step for the user is to complain to me. ☹ I have looked for a template that could be used to warn someone when he/she is added as a non-member, but did not find one. It's also not clear that I'd want one, as most of these non-subscriptions are by spammers and I prefer not to reply to spammers. __ I tried your suggestion below, Mark. Here's my transcript: ********** Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell Use commit() to commit changes. Use abort() to discard changes since the last commit. Exit with ctrl+D does an implicit commit() but exit() does not. >>> lm = getUtility(IListManager) >>> for l in lm: ... for nm in l.nonmembers.members: ... nm.unsubscribe() ... >>> ********** I did this twice, once with commit() and once typing ctrl/d (ctrl/D) just gave me a beep. Calling commit() did not return to the ... as in your example, but showed the >>> prompt, so I tried ctrl/D (beep) and then ctrl/d (exit). I then went to the Postorius page for one of the lists and found that all the non-members were still present. Yours, Allan On 9/16/22, 15:01 , "Mark Sapiro" <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: On 9/16/22 11:19, Allan Hansen wrote: > Hi all, > > This is a bit of an emergency: > > I am getting a bunch of complaints from potential list members of my lists that they can't subscribe and they don't get messages. Apparently, the issue is that they are non-members. I have never created any non-members but looking at the docs it seems that if someone sends a message to the list, they automatically become non-members. > For individuals I have been able to delete their non-membership and they then could subscribe properly. I don't understand. the fact that an address is a non-member of a list should not impact subscribing that address as a member. > I have looked at some of my most popular lists and they have hundreds of non-members! It will take me an awful amount of time to remove each one manually, and not doing it - handling each as they complain - is also a lot of waste of time and cause of frustration for all involved. What is actually happening when the non-member attempts to subscribe as a member? What do they do and what it the result? > I have tried scripting it with delmember, but it does not take the '-r nonmember' option ('findmember' does!). > > Can anyone help me find out how to > a. delete all non-members of all my lists If you have access to `mailman shell` you could do: ``` $ mailman shell Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell Use commit() to commit changes. Use abort() to discard changes since the last commit. Exit with ctrl+D does an implicit commit() but exit() does not. >>> lm = getUtility(IListManager) >>> for l in lm: ... for nm in l.nonmembers.members: ... nm.unsubscribe() ... >>> commit() ``` > b. prevent MM3 from creating new non-members in the future (so I don't have to keep removing them) nonmembers are an integral part of Mailman 3's architecture. The basic idea is a nonmember has a moderation action and setting a nonmembers moderation replaces MM 2.1's adding that address to one of *_these_nonmembers (The legacy *_these_nonmembers attributes still exist, but only to support regexps). It would require extensive modification to not create nonmembers. However, I still don't understand why the presence of a nonmember record is an issue. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/

2 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Invalid confirm text

by Mark Sapiro

On 8/17/20 4:53 AM, w.schoener(a)alp.dillingen.de wrote: > One thing I forgot to mention: > a week ago, the confirmation-mails still worked. > > And now: > All attempts to confirm the subscribe message failed. I used the list-request(a)list.domain and sent text-only message with the "confirm token" in the subject and/or in the body. This should work. What's in your MTA's logs? > So today I tried and used the Mailman shell to change the pending state to "confirmed", as you described here: > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/… > After I submitted the command util.confirm('hex_token') and restarted mailman with > mailman stop > mailman start It isn't necessary to stop/star/ or restart mailman. How did you exit mailman shell. You must exit with ctrl-D or issue commit() or your transactions won't be committed. In particular, if you exit with exit() without first issuing commit(), nothing will be done. > the pending user wasnt confirmed but cleared, as if he never sent a subscribe-message. The only way to subscribe seems to be by logging in and using there the subscribe-form. What is the list's subscription_policy? It seems you successfully confirmed that token, but that may not be the last step if the list's subscription_policy is confirm_then_moderate. > Do you have any idea, whats going wrong here? I dont know what to do any more. Clearly something is broken, but I don't know what unless it is some permissions issue on the template directories/files you created. Have you looked at Mailman's mailman.log? -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: What's the difference between (purpose of) reject and ignore

by Andy Smith

Hello, On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 12:37:05PM -0000, denis.bitouze(a)univ-littoral.fr wrote: > AFAICS, it is not documented since, at Postorius → Settings → Message Acceptance → Default action to take when a (non-)member posts to the list, I only read: “Discard: this simply discards the message, with no notice sent to the post's author”. So no mention that this would set it to (silently) discard all future mails from them. Well that is because that isn't what that part does. As it says, that part is the "Default action to take when a member/non-member posts to the list". So that's where you set what you want to happen when ANY non-member posts. This is what will happen any time any non-member posts. By contrast, when you set an action on a particular held message, it is asking you want you want to do with posts from THAT INDIVIDUAL ADDRESS for the future. So hopefully you can see that these things are different. One is a whole-list property that applies to posts from classes of posters (members, non-members). The other is per-poster property as a reaction to as held message from them. > Just to be sure: for this feature, is it necessary to click on the > subject and to choose in the drop-down list “Discard (no > notification)”, or is it enough, on the .../held_messages page, to > select the messages and click on “Discard”? Doing it from the held messages page will be a one-time thing; it is only by clicking on the individual message that you can choose an action for future messages from that address. Cheers, Andy

3 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Installation Wooes

by Mark Sapiro

On 5/3/20 8:43 PM, Samir Faci wrote: > Inline. > > On Sun, May 3, 2020, 20:32 Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net > <mailto:mark@msapiro.net>> wrote: > > You are sending from a remote machine 198.199.98.177 to a presumably > remote domain domain.com <http://domain.com> so relay access is > denied as it should be. > > You need to add 198.199.98.177 to mynetworks in Postfix. > > > I can but domain.com <http://domain.com> is basically my Gmail I just > regex-ed the logs. If that's the fix is have to add every recepients > domain to mynetworks. You absolutely don't want to do that. The log entry is confusing. Between your munging domains and my MUA adding mailto: links to every email address, it's a mess. Let's try again: May 4 03:07:38 lists postfix/smtpd[1968155]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from unknown[198.199.98.177]: 554 5.7.1 <csgeek(a)domain.com>: Relay access denied; from=<booh-bounces+csgeek=domain.com(a)lists.domain.org> to=<csgeek(a)domain.com> proto=ESMTP helo=<[127.0.1.1]>. This says Postfix received a RCPT command from 98.199.98.177. It looks like it comes from Mailman, i.e., the envelope sender loogs like a Mailman VERPed address <booh-bounces+csgeek=domain.com(a)lists.domain.org> for a message to <csgeek(a)domain.com> and that is the envelope recipient and the sender identified itself in EHLO as [127.0.1.1]. So Postfix thinks it is asked to relay from 98.199.98.177 to domain.com. Note that 98.199.98.177 is a Comcast network IP. It has nothing to do with gmail. So is the connect comes from Mailman on the Postfix machine, why does Postfix think it comes from 98.199.98.177. That's the issue. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: Archives with encoding characters

by Mark Dadgar

I see this a lot too. I cannot confirm 100%, but anecdotally they all seem to be Mac Mail users. - Mark ----- mark(a)pdc-racing.net | 408-348-2878 > On Mar 4, 2020, at 9:56 AM, Seth Seeger <seth(a)tofutavern.com> wrote: > > I should add that they are both on Plain Text Digests. (People seemed to be unhappy with MIME digests, because they had to double click on each email to open it up. You couldn't just scroll through a long email.) > > Seth > > On Wed, Mar 4, 2020, at 4:55 PM, Seth Seeger wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> >> I have a few (but not all) members complaining that their digests are >> full of coded characters. Two examples below were forwarded to me: >> >>> What I ended up doing was creating 2 "practice lines" in the centre of=20 >>> our big teaching circle (I always teach new figures in a big circle) -=20 >>> which each had 3 people set up in a line with generous space between,=20 >>> and first=C2=A0 I walked through one of those lines myself starting first= >>> =20 >> >> and >> >>> Robins pass Right=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Larks Loop L= >>> eft >> >> What is the cause? Is there anything I can do about it? >> >> Thanks, >> Seth > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/

5 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Member Issue Discovered

by Brian Carpenter

On 10/21/20 4:43 AM, Jörg Schulz wrote: > So, the issue seems to be, like in the following scenario > > We imagine a list server for the domains fruiteaters and meateaters. > We have two listadmins, anna (fruit) and carl (meat). They don't share anything. > We have a user who subscribes to fruiteaters and meateaters using his addresshunger(a)eatall.com > > He wants to show up in the fruiteaters list as fullname wormy wonder, but in the meateaters list as fritz the cat. > While he can do so using two different email addresses, he cannot do so using > > wormy wonder<hunger(a)eatall.com> > fritz the cat<hunger(a)eatall.com> > > as from: addresses because all requests will be matched to the one email address. > > Worse, if Carl would be able to change the name to from wormy wonder to fritz the cat, Anna would see that name change and like to change it back because the user she had known, user has been identified as wormy wonder. > > So, if these user properties are stored somewhere not related to the lists, we don't seem to have a chance of display name changes by list admins as long as the data model isn't changed. This doesn't seem to be easy. > > So, only some kind of super-Admin should currently be able to change these display names, and these changes would be visible for all lists, and one email address can only have one display name for all lists. > > Not optimal for some rare conditions - that's the way it seems to be??? You should add that the name can't be changed at all nor ever removed. -- Brian Carpenter Harmonylists.com Emwd.com

4 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Bounce handling after upgrade

by Mark Sapiro

On 7/8/20 6:05 AM, David Krantz wrote: > > To my surprise mailman core started by sending tens of mails and > blocking the corresponding users for very old bounces. What is worse > is that this happens every time I start mailman core. Now I have > blocked (almost) all outgoing mail in postfix using a transport map > which discards it but this is a temporary testing measure of course. Sorry about that. Yes this is an issue when first upgrading from a prior version to 3.3.1, there are lots of old unprocessed bounce events which all of a sudden get processed. See below for solutions. > When I deploy this server into production, I do not want these > recipients to be blocked as the old problems have been solved since > very long. My plan is to reload the database from a newer backup > anyway... Would it be enough to empty the bounce table (bounceevent) > or is there anything else driving this behaviour? Or is there a better > way to do this via the mailman shell? For me a "delete from > bounceevent" seems a lot simpler than anything via the shell but there > may be dependencies in the database. You are on the right track. The "delete from bounceevent" is a perfectly acceptable solution. So is "update bounceevent set processed = true". Another way to deal with this is to set [mta] verp_probes: yes in mailman.cfg. This will still send a lot of probe messages which may be undesirable, but if the probes don't bounce, the user's delivery won't be disabled. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years

[MM3-users] Re: mailman 2.1 or 3.0 (or another MLM)

by Stephen Daniel

Nate -- A few months ago I, a total novice with Mailman, set out to install Mailman3 on a Debian server. I used these instructions: DOC/Howto_Install_Mailman3_On_Debian10 <https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Howto_Install_Mailman3_On_Debian10> It took me several tries, but with some help from people on the list it is now up and running. It was also a *much *bigger investment of my time than I expected. I cannot say I completely understood what I was doing every step of the way, and some of the steps are like: go edit the config file so that it is right, which can be daunting. However, even for someone who's never touched mailman before, it can be done. Best of luck -- Stephen On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 7:19 PM nate <mailman-list(a)linuxpowered.net> wrote: > Hello mailman users out there - > > I have been a casual user of mailman for 21 years now I think it is. > Most of my > lists were super small (my only current lists have no more than 8 > members each), > super low volume. It's "just worked" over the years, no issues. I have > been > using Linux since 1996, not a newbie here. 21 years ago I deployed > mailman as > part of our corporate email and then there were a lot more users. Since > that > time I just use mailman on my personal server. > > I did a apt-get dist-upgrade on my system and was surprised to see > mailman had > vanished. Wasn't expecting that.. not a big deal, or so I thought. > > I am running Devuan 4, which is based on Debian. Investigating further > it seems > Debian at some point dropped Mailman 2.1 and started including Mailman > 3. OK, > not too bad I thought.. > > I was/am prepared to start my mailing lists from scratch again, manually > copy/paste over settings/users/etc. Don't care about archives etc. I > setup mailman > 2.1 on another Devuan 3.x system and copied my mailman configs over to > it, and > can view them fine via the mailman cgi scripts through Apache, I was > planning > on just copy/pasting list settings between the two systems for each > list. > > Roughly 10-15mins into trying to get mailman3 off the ground I just find > myself > overwhelmed. That doesn't happen often. I'm honestly completely shocked > at > how it seems the complexity of the system has increased by orders of > magnitude. > > I have been browsing around > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/pre-installation-guide.html > (and other links on that documentation site) > > But as much information as there is, to me there really isn't any > information > there. If that makes sense. I'm sure it doesn't make sense so let me > give an > example. > > On this page: > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-web.html > > I assume that would lead me to how do I configure the web interface so I > can do stuff with it. > > I setup an admin account, then it goes into scheduled tasks(which appear > to > be handled by the Debian package already but don't know what these tasks > would have to do with a web interface). I tried sending a test email but > that failed, I looked at the setting up email portion but it does not > give any indication where that config would be stored, a recursive grep > on /etc for EMAIL_BACKEND turns up nothing (there is a /etc/mailman3 > directory with some files in there). > > Then it goes into other things like task queues, full text searching, > here I am just looking for info on where this web interface is, where > is the config, what port does it listen on? Is it a cgi like mailman2? > It seems like it could be a standalone service. > > Then it shows a bunch of other settings, not indicating what file these > are stored in(or what directory the file is in), etc etc etc. Debian's > own documentation is severely lacking in this department as well, > normally > I am used to going to /usr/share/doc/<package>/ and there is some useful > stuff. There is stuff for mailman3 but it's minimal at best. > > So I'm thinking mailman3 is not the package for me. I've really > appreciated > mailman 2.1 (and earlier versions) as I said they always just worked, > never > had to think about them. I'm sure a lot of good hard work has been put > into 3, I just don't recall the last time I looked at a project and just > honestly didn't even know where to begin which surprised me so much > given > my 20+ year history of mailman as a user and as an admin. > > Is there some document(s) out there that would be more beneficial to > me in setting up mailman3? I see that mailman 2 looks like it's still > being maintained, I assume mailman3 is the result of python3 code and > mailman2 perhaps uses python 2.7? I am unsure on the ability to run > mailman2 on a modern Debian-based distro since of course Python 2.7 > is pretty obsolete at this point (or maybe Mailman 2.1 doesn't use > python I don't recall). I could try to install the older mailman 2.1 > package on Devuan 4 and see what happens I don't know if it would > be that simple or not. > > Or is there a better MLM for simple use cases? I used Majordomo back in > the 90s and was happy to get onto Mailman from that. Something similar > to > Mailman 2.1 in features/functionality. Worst case I could just use > aliases > in my postfix config at the end of the day that is all that is really > needed, though I do like some level of access control on who can email > the lists(even if nobody outside the list knows the list exists), I've > had some of these lists for 2 decades, old habits die hard right? > > I did some searches for mailing list software on the Debian package > archives and saw a few options, nothing really stood out at me as > something super interesting yet though. > > I don't mean to come across as harsh or complaining or anything I'm > just here in shock kind of. Thinking about what the best solution for > me would be. My mailing lists have been broken for a couple of weeks > but that's really not a big deal. > > thanks > > nate > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ >

3 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: List rename

by Abhilash Raj

On Wed, Sep 25, 2019, at 9:04 AM, Joel Lord wrote: > I'm in an odd situation where I need to rename a bunch of lists. They > were all created on mailman2 originally and migrated to mailman3 (very > successfully, TYVM) but the names were all originally > discuss-<foo>@domain and it's very confusing to be sure you're always > sending to the correct <foo>. We want to completely rename the lists to > <foo>-discuss@domain. > > These lists do not keep archives, so if I have to resort to extracting > the subscriber lists and the configs and building new lists, I'm > completely fine with that. Problem is, I'm really used to MM2 and > config_list and could do this without thinking using those tools... that > I don't have. > > Running MM3 3.2.2 trying to make this happen. Any assistance I could > get will be greatly appreciated. There isn't any way yet that allows renaming a list, not sure how hard would that be to achieve that. In theory, it should be easy since most places should be using list-id (which wouldn't change if you were to rename a list, as the RFC2919 says), but there might be a few places which are still using the posting-address as the identifier and might need change. I wouldn't mind a command or an API to modify the list's posting address. > > THANKS! > > -- > Joel Lord > Web Administrator, Alpha Psi Omega Grand Cast > etc... etc... etc... > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

5 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: How to turn off Emergency Moderation for imported MM2 lists?

by Mark Sapiro

On 7/28/20 5:40 AM, Brian Carpenter wrote: > Ok, I see the other thread concerning this was deleted, along with my reply. Here it is again. It wasn't deleted. It's on another list - mailman-users(a)python.org. Here's my reply to your post On 7/27/20 7:13 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote: > > This is the client that I asking about in my post. She said what I did, did not work. This is what I did: > > 1. Get into a venv as user mailman > > 2. #mailman shell >>>> from mailman.model.mailinglist import MailingList >>>> mlist = MailingList('listname(a)listdomain.org') >>>> mlist.emergency = False >>>> commit() > ctrl-d (just to be on the safe side) > > Did I not follow your instructions correctly? That should work. I don't know why the result would be any different from what Johanna did. On 7/27/20 8:58 PM, Johanna Amann wrote: > As a small followup for anyone encountering the same problem in the > future - I ended up just changing the value in the database directly. > > So - an “update mailinglist set emergency = FALSE;” (or the equivalent > in the dialect of the database one uses) removes the emergency flag from > all mailing lists. That is another approach which is valid, but why the `mailman shell` method I suggested wouldn't do the same thing, I don't know. Of course, if you're doing multiple lists, this method is easier because just one simple query does them all. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years

[MM3-users] Re: About to Install MM3 -- Seeking clarification

by Mark Sapiro

On 10/12/22 22:03, Onyeibo Oku wrote: > > Fedora expects mailman files to reside at /usr/lib/mailman. It appears > to ship with a mailman unix user. I adapted to those system defaults. I would suggest you not do that and just install mailman in `/opt/mailman` per https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html. If you don't want to do that, you will have to replace all occurrences of `/opt/mailman` in the doc with `/usr/lib/mailman`. > Now I observe that "su - mailman" gives me the proper prompt but > .bashrc doesn't kick in. I still have to manually change to the > virtual environment despite setting the automatic change in .bashrc. > However, "su mailman" runs .bashrc but the prompt says "bash X.XX $". > Is this normal? Yes. The suggested change to .bashrc assumes you are logging in as the Mailman user, not switching via `su`. You might try `sudo -u mailman bash` or `sudo -u mailman -i` instead of `su`, but I'm sot sure if that will help. > Subsequent parts of the doc show the path "/opt/mailman/mm/var/*" which > should correspond to "/usr/lib/mailman/mm/var/*" on my instance. > However, I don't see any instructions on how to get the "/mm" folder > and the associated sub-folders. I just have "/usr/lib/mailman" I think if you have `var_dir: /usr/lib/mailman/mm/var` in the /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg file you create per https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html#installing-mail…, then starting Mailman core `/usr/lib/mailman/venv/bin/mailman start` will create it. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Strange password problem

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Eggert Ehmke via Mailman-users writes: > my configuration is very much like the one described by Roland. And how much does it cost you? It doesn't sound like you're ready to use the feature at this point, but that often happens when users don't know that there's a feature they could ask for. Is there real risk that domain owners would abuse or mistakenly use site admin privileges on the whole site or on someone else's domains? Are you currently hoping to devolve domain administration to other individuals (now that you know it's probably possible with improvements to Mailman)? Do you have candidates for those domain owners in mind? The problem on our side is that I don't know how this stuff works, and I don't know how much Mark or Abhilash knows or if they have any time to work on it. At least it's not authentication (which is a hairball I have no trouble saying "NO!!" to ;-), but authorization of roles is potentially complex and certainly risky if we get it wrong (eg, in a commercial hosting situation). So I estimate that implementing this is a significant cost for us (unless some volunteer does it, and of course we're pretty sure there will be a GSoC 2024 -- can't promise students will apply for the task, though). I don't say that to discourage you from asking for it; please do ask unless your assessment is that the cost to you of not having the "domain admin" role is negligible. I just want to be transparent about why I'm being nosy about your process, and the kinds of things that go into our decision about what to prioritize. Steve

1 year, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Postorius Suggestion: Give owner a view of all users of all owned lists

by Andreas Vetter

Stephen, after thinking a lot about it, I came up with this. Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Andreas Vetter writes: > > A list of all addresses subscribed to all lists owned by the logged > > in person. > > This is starting to take a better form. It's still very specialized, > so I'm starting to wonder if trying to add it to Postorius is a great > idea. Of course if people are coming in over the network, you don't > want to reproduce all the authentication and authorization logic > implemented in Django and Postorius. That may as well be done in > Django, and if you're doing Django it may as well be Postorius too. > > But if you're in a single sign-on environment so presence in the > network implies strong authentication, you will get more flexibility > from local scripts using mailmanclient, or if you're confident in > security access to the REST API directly. Just putting that out for > your consideration, since implementing what is taking shape here would > take quite some time as the folks skilled with Postorius are not so > active these days. I agree, this is very special. In our case we will cook it down to a very special solution providing owners with the info they need. Based on that, they can use the unchanged postorius for (un-)subscribing. > > Owner is the primary target group for that. But since it should be > > a tool for managing subscriptions in a simple way, it might also be > > of interest for superusers. For me as a superuser it would make > > life easier. > > [...] > > > Ah, I see the problem and agree: So, the presentation should have a > > sorted and searchable list of addresses and a Button next to each > > address, maybe labeled "Subscriptions". > > Looking at your description above, for superusers that is basically > the Users tab, though. Users are identified by primary address, and > you'd not see alternate addresses in the list. But presumably your > internal users use their @your.org addresses as primary. Can you make > clear what could be more streamlined for your use cases as superuser? > I give one example below, maybe that's what you're mostly interested > in. > > The caveats about access to User objects still apply for owners, so > even if they look the same (which is a good UX idea if owner > functionality is a subset of superuser functionality, also they might > even be able to share the basic page templates), the implementation is > going to be rather different. I suspect you superusers would be quite > frustrated if using the "subscribe all these lists" functionality > meant you couldn't get at the User object without going to a different > page. > > I do see one weird thing: you can't manipulate subscription itself > from the User page as seen by the superuser from that list, only > toggle moderation and delivery mode. I guess that's reasonable for a > lot of use cases, though. I've never wanted to do a subscribe or > unsubscribe from there. I always have a long list of users to > subscribe to specific lists, never a list of lists a specific user > should belong to, We have a list for almost every working group and have scripts reading members from there and putting them together in the higher level lists. People can be in more than one working group list. Users come, stay some years and go, so mass (un-)subscription is used for single addresses usually. But if the owner forgets to delete someone from a list, the person is still in one of the higher "automatic" lists. So an overview would have been nice. The "(un-)subscribe all" buttons are not really needed in our use case. We run about 300 lists. For a superuser this is a lot, given the fact there is no filtering in the table of lists. A owner wants to see in an address view all his lists. A superuser does not, because it would be too much unrelevant information (e.g all 200 research lists, when user is in finance). As a superuser I could need in the users view: - clicking on a list name to manage the list - unsubscribe button > > The presentation given when above "Subscriptions" Button is clicked > > should contain the address as kind of Headline. Then a table of > > all lists of the logged in owner and next to each mailing list an > > indication, if the address is subscribed or not and a Button to > > toggle subscription/unsubscription. May be a single Toggle Button > > or (maybe better) two buttons, a suscribe and a unsubscribe button, > > where one is greyed out. > > This would not work with the current User page as presented to a > superuser, that's true. The current presentation is quite suited to > its purpose, with sections for Addresses, Subscriptions, Ownership, > and Delete User in that order. But especially for superusers, there > are plenty of sites with thousands, even tens of thousands of lists, > and even a paged or scrollable presentation would be awful UI, and the > potential for a disastrous mistake using "do all" is high. I agree. So I think superusers "users view" and owners "addresses view" should be different things. > > In addition my owners would like to have a "unsubscribe from all my > > lists" button. And a "subscribe to all my lists" button. This might > > be visually nicer, when having the two-button approach above. > > I wonder if your owners really want "subscribe all". "Unsubscribe > all" does make sense for separations, of course, and they wouldn't > necessarily be terminations. It would be useful in an internal > transfer where "delete user" is not a solution. But in my experience > specialized channels tend to proliferate but the same people are > likely to be running them as run the department-wide lisst. Yes, "subscribe all" is usually not wanted, I just mentioned it for symmetry. Since we populate higher lists with members from lower lists by script, we would not strictly need "unsubscribe all" as long as the owner knows which lists are populated automatic. We currently hide that info in the short description of the list. Everything very special, I agree. > > In our case we would want to (un-)subscribe the address in a "do > > it, don't ask anyone" fashion, but maybe this is not a good idea in > > general. What do you think? > > I think we would implement it similarly to the mass subscribe for > multiple addresses case, where the list owner can decide how much > bureaucracy to require of the subscriber. You'd want to be careful to > make sure address verification is done at most once (for your use > case, probably not at all). And there would be some things that could > be done to arrange that most lists would have sensible defaults. Yes, this is and was a problem for us. We imported many lists from mailman2. Some settings have to be changed after migration, and a mailman config command to set settings for lists would be great. Or a way to permanently create new list styles. > > Yes, I agree, but policy here is to get rid of subdomains, and that > > falls on our feet now. > > Well, once we figure out how to implement domain ownership, it > wouldn't be hard to adapt that technology to "departments" that are > administratively distinct but share mail and/or web domains. The main > problem would be deciding whether and how to nest them. Superuser > > domain owner > list owner > moderator is pretty obvious, but how > "department owner" would fit in is less so. I already had this wo possibilities here (at different times): In fact a department owner could own several domains. The department research (as opposed to e.g. administration) could contain biology.example.org and physics.example.org) Would it harm to be owner of several domains? Or it could be the other way round (physics.uni.edu has a theory department and an experiment department, each having chairs with the list owners). So there is no single way. Department owner and domain owner seem to be roles on the same level with different funcionality. Superuser has to decide how to use it. -- Mit freundlichen Gruessen, Andreas Vetter

4 months, 2 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Turn off social logins?

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Nick Wynja writes: > INSTALLED_APPS = [a for a in INSTALLED_APPS > if not a.startswith('allauth.socialaccount.providers') > and not a.startswith('django_mailman3.lib.auth.fedora')] > This way if Postorius ever adds any apps you won't need to update > your local settings. Anyone see any downsides to doing it this way? Aside from the circular import issue mentioned by Abhilash 1) AIUI, the OP didn't want to present options to users that they don't need and might confuse/annoy them. This does the wrong thing for the OP if so. 2) Implicitly adding apps in this way increases the attack surface on the system by allowing additional opportunities to access resources.[1] This approach doesn't even necessarily get rid of all social authentication providers: others may be special-cased in the same way as Fedora in the future. Of course, the default configuration in the containers will be good for a very common use case, and sufficiently secure for most instances. But the general rule for Internet-facing applications is "shut off all access by default, and explicitly open up only the channels you need." I'm not saying your "subtract the social authentication applications" has a downside in all cases. Just that some of us prefer to expend the effort to (a) follow that general rule, and (b) advise others of its existence :-). Footnotes: [1] You're right, the admin has to intervene if Mailman adds new "must-install" apps, or Postorius won't run. It's possible we should do something about this, such as dividing the set of apps into those we are sure Mailman needs and and having the user configure only those that provide more or less optional features that users should make their own decisions about.

6 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: [MM3-users]Exim, Mailman3 and missing Message-ID:

by Mark Sapiro

On 7/26/19 11:05 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > The problem is that Mailman's LMTP server rejects malformed mail. I > seem to recall that in Mailman 2, Mailman itself would add a > Message-ID field if one was not present. I don't know how easy it > would be to provide this feature, since we would have to patch the > LMTP server code so the message could make it to Mailman proper > (Mailman 3 imports the LMTP server from the stdlib). It's a simple patch to the lmtp runner (Mailman's LMTP server). There's a closed issue on this at <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues/490> - closed because I convinced the submitter it wasn't the right thing to do. > > My solution for now (apart from telling people not to use old > > broken Outlook!) is to modify the exim mailman3_transport so that > > any message with a missing Message-ID: will have one generated by > > exim before it's passed to LMTP. This reproduces the same behaviour > > exim uses for locally submitted messages. > > I'm not sure it's a good idea to do this (and certainly not by > default). The only times I've seen messages without a Message-ID are > spam messages. I suppose we can add this to the documentation. I added Robert's solution at <https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/mta.html#troubles…> The requirement for a Message-ID: is documented, albeit not very prominently, at <https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/build/lib/mailman/runners/docs/lmt…>. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

6 years

[MM3-users] Re: Hyperkitty download mbox

by Mark Sapiro

On 4/25/21 2:20 PM, Andrew Hodgson wrote: > Hi, > > Hyperkitty 1.3.4. > > I am trying to download a complete list mbox by going to all threads view and using the download option. I have tried a couple of tools (Gunzip and Winrar) and both are giving me an unexpected end of file when trying to decompress the gz file. > > Here is the list URL I am using: https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/hyperkitty/list/plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamil… Depending in the web server configuration, timeouts can occur when downloading large archive mboxes. instead of downloading the entire mbox with <https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/hyperkitty/list/plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamil…>, do it in pieces by adjusting start and end. e.g. <https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/hyperkitty/list/plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamil…> <https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/hyperkitty/list/plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamil…> <https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/hyperkitty/list/plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamil…> Although, I don't think timing out is the issue, and I'm not sure what is, but I think it has something to do with messages in the archive. If I try to get the 3 pieces as above, the first piece with start=2008-02-19&end=2012-12-31 works but the others don't and even the smaller <https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/hyperkitty/list/plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamil…> fails the same way. If I try to get 2013 month by month, all work except December which gives me an internal server error. What's the traceback from that error. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Help with fresh debian install

by Jonas Meurer

Hi Stephen, Stephen J. Turnbull: > > > This is the issue. I don't know how the Debian packages do this, but I > > > recommend having a 'mailman' user that owns everything and running > > > commands as that user. > > > > The Debian package uses user `list` for this. It also provides a command > > `mailman-wrapper` which takes care of running mailman commands as this user. > > > > It would be awesome if the upstream /usr/bin/mailman command could take > > care of this automatically, making the wrapper command obsolete. > > What precisely is "this"? We already have the mailman command; are > you suggesting it should be suid/sgid mailman/list/whatever? That's > pretty obviously a vulnerability. If there are any RCEs *anywhere* on > your host, your Mailman is pwned. If you know your installation is > secure enough or you just don't care, fine, chmod it yourself. > > If not, how do you propose upstream "take care of it?" Good question. Two options come into my mind: * Provide a sudoers include file and make the mailmman command use sudo to run the actual commands as user mailman/list/whatever. * Check if the command is run under expected UID/GID and error out if not. Probably a commandline argument to ignore this check would be required in that case. I don't consider either of those solutions particularly clean. But it's a matter of fact that people will run mailman commands as user root, which results in logfiles, list files, etc. being created with owner root. Which in turn leads to errors since the mailman daemon is unable to further write to those files. Cheers jonas

5 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Add rule to auto-discard "AutoReply" messages from list members

by Odhiambo Washington

On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 10:38 PM Thomas Ward via Mailman-users < mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> wrote: > When people are communicating on Mailman3 lists, some set up automatic > responders for out-of-office, etc. and get let through the system to > list recipients. > > Unfortunately, this is bad behavior and appears to not be caught by > default. I'd like to set up some kind of rule globally rather than > per-list that would check if a message is an automatic reply (based on a > set of criteria we've come up with programmatically on our previous > custom implementation of lists) and then default-discard those messages. > > Is there a way with custom rules to implement this? We're looking for > certain strings on the subject line or other headers to determine > "Discard" cases in our custom list implementations, but we are hoping we > can implement this with customized rules in Mailman3 to achieve this > goal. How would we structure that type of rule, and do we check the > message object or the msgdata instead? > How about using the rules inside your MTA to check the subject for the common words used by autoresponders like: Out of Office | Auto-Reply | Autoresponse | Auto Reply And if the subject matches, do NOT pass that to the transport that delivers to MM3 Just an Idea borrowed from the rules we (in the Exim MTA world) use to process Out Of Office responses. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]

1 year, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Timeout error on anonymous subscribe

by Gerald Vogt

On 23.10.24 21:35, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 10/22/24 23:07, Gerald Vogt wrote: >> >> For testing I have set >> >> POSTORIUS_TEMPLATE_BASE_URL = 'https://lists.example.org' >> >> to the URL of our main domain, however, if I test an anonymous >> subscribe through the list info page I still get the timeout error > > This will have no effect unless you delete and recreate the template in > Postorius because simple changing the setting won't change the `uri` in > the template table. O.K. Did that. Now the uri in mailman.template is https://lists.example.org/mailman3/api/templates/list/community.lists.examp… However, it doesn't change the timeout issue, except now the error is HTTPSConnectionPool(host='lists.example.org', port=443): Read timed out. (read timeout=5) instead of localhost:8000. >> I can access http://localhost:8000/mailman3/api/templates/list/ >> community.lists.example.com/list:user:action:subscribe with curl and >> immediately get the response. > > Can you do that as the Mailman user?, e.g. > ``` > sudo -u mailman curl http://localhost:8000/mailman3/api/templates/list/ > community.lists.example.com/list:user:action:subscribe > ``` > assuming the Mailman user is `mailman`. I don't quite understand the relevance of the user accessing the localhost tcp port. Any local user can do that. I can access the template content with curl http://localhost:8000/mailman3/api/templates/list/community.lists.example.c… as well as curl http://lists.example.org/mailman3/api/templates/list/community.lists.exampl… as any user on the mailman server. And I can use the latter to access the template from anywhere as it's a public server. In any case, curl immediately returns the content. There is no delay. Thanks, Gerald

9 months, 1 week

[MM3-users] Re: where to configure max_days_to_hold on MM3 GUI interface?

by Shashikanth Komandoor

Thank you Abilash Raj for your help which made me step ahead. With your help, I have written a for loop as below which makes all the lists on my Mailman 3 box set the configuration of max_days_to_hold as 1 and of course I am successful in setting so. And the for loop is as below: *for listid in `curl -u restadmin:restpass -X GET http://localhost:8001/3.1/lists <http://localhost:8001/3.1/lists> | python -mjson.tool| grep "list_id" | awk -F"\"" '{print $4}'` * *do * * curl -u restadmin:restpass -X PATCH http://localhost:8001/3.1/lists/$listid/config <http://localhost:8001/3.1/lists/$listid/config> -d max_days_to_hold='1'* *done* With the above script I am able to set the value of max_days_to_hold as required but how to check manually and make my held messages discarded automatically which are after the specified period configured for max_days_to_hold. If I am able to do it manually I can be confident to take in to production so that the held messages after a specific period would not be appeared under "held messages" tab. On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 11:14 PM Abhilash Raj <maxking(a)asynchronous.in> wrote: > On Sat, Feb 1, 2020, at 5:27 AM, Shashikanth Komandoor wrote: > > Hello Mark, > > > > Thanks for helping me for moving ahead in my project. > > > > Troubling you again, I would like to put another request at you. > > > > As per your suggestion, I am trying to configure my list > > configuration through REST API for specially the parameter like > > max_days_to_hold as it is not available through interface and I am > > following the official links of mailman 3 i.e > > > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/rest/docs/listconf.html > > > > But I am getting "name is not defined" sort of errors as below: > > > > > > > > > > > > *>>> dump_json('http://localhost:9001/3.0/lists/ > > <http://localhost:9001/3.0/lists/>','ant(a)example.com/config > > <http://ant@example.com/config>',dict(display_name='My > > List'),'PATCH')Traceback (most recent call last): File "<stdin>", line > 1, > > in <module>NameError: name 'dump_json' is not defined>>>* > > > > Actually I am new to REST API but hope this is the only issue > that > > is preventing me to go ahead. > > > > Could you please help me by saying how should I handle this so > that > > I should be able to configure *max_days_to_hold* of a list or multiple ? > > > > > dump_json is basically a Python function which sends the request to the > URL you add as the first parameter (GET, if any data isn't specified and > uses POST if data is specified or explicitly define the PATCH or method > like you have above) and prints the json response. > > You can easily do the same using curl with the right authorization > headers, with something like: > > > $ curl -u restadmin:restpass -X PATCH \ > http://localhost:8001/3.1/lists/somelist.example.com/config -d > display_name='Patched Name' > > > Note that "restadmin:restpass" is the username password that you have set > in your mailman.cfg. > > If you do want to use Python, you can just use a regular PATCH request > using requests or standard library urllib3. > > Finally, dump_json is documented here: > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/documentation.htm… > > > > On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:20 PM Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > > > > > On 1/28/20 8:42 PM, Shashikanth Komandoor wrote: > > > > > > > > But I could see that parameter value configurable on MM2 GUI > > > > interface in General Options but I don't see the same on the MM3 GUI > > > > interface. > > > > > > > > > There are many core settings not (yet) exposed in Postorius. > > > max_days_to_hold. is one of them. It can be set via `mailman shell` or > > > via the REST API > > > < > > > > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/rest/docs/rest.html#re… > > > >. > > > > > > -- > > > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > > > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > > > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > > > > > > > > -- > > Thanks & Regards, > > Shashi Kanth.K > > 9052671936 > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > > > -- > thanks, > Abhilash Raj (maxking) > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- Thanks & Regards, Shashi Kanth.K 9052671936

5 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] mailman 3 adding extraneous /var/ to pid path?

by Andrew Hodder

I'm not sure if this is a bug, or if I've configured something I'm unable to find doing this. But when I'm attempting to stop my mailman3 process, I keep getting an extra /var/ appending into the pid path, so it never finds the PID to terminate. Here are some examples, run at different times, some with different -C configs to launch, all worked successfully to start, this is only a problem on the stop.: (venv3) [root@mailman3(on1) venv3]# mailman stop Shutting down Mailman's master runner PID unreadable in: /opt/mailman/venv3/var/master.pid [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/opt/mailman/venv3/var/master.pid' Is the master even running? (venv3) [root@mailman3(on1) var]# mailman stop Shutting down Mailman's master runner PID unreadable in: /opt/mailman/var/var/master.pid [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/opt/mailman/var/var/master.pid' (venv3) [root@mailman3(on1) var]# mailman stop Shutting down Mailman's master runner PID unreadable in: /opt/mailman/var/etc/var/var/master.pid [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/opt/mailman/var/etc/var/var/master.pid' I keep getting around this by creating symlinks to the pid file and then the stop works, but it's getting silly. It seems like mailman just assumes CWD + /var/ + master.pid must be the location. Once I realized this, I found I can do "mailman stop" so long as I'm only in /opt/mailman/ (since it'd then add /var/master.pid). But that seems a little nonsensical. Going to try my hand at using the environment variables MAILMAN_CONFIG_FILE and MAILMAN_VAR_DIR, maybe that will sort this out. But if anyone can explain further, it'd be appreciated. Sincerely, Andrew Hodder Systems Administrator Support Operations, Afilias E-mail: drew(a)afilias.info Phone: +1 416.673.4164 Fax: +1 416.646.1541

7 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Installing mailman 3

by Rafael Mora

I got this error starting mailman service: [mailman@localhost ~]$ source env2Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/asyncio/base_events.py", line 1043, in create_server sock.bind(sa) OSError: [Errno 99] Cannot assign requested address During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/var/lib/mailman/env/bin/runner", line 11, in <module> sys.exit(main()) File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/bin/runner.py", line 198, in main runner.run() File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/runners/lmtp.py", line 242, in run self.lmtp.start() File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/aiosmtpd/controller.py", line 55, in start raise self._thread_exception File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/aiosmtpd/controller.py", line 35, in _run ssl=self.ssl_context)) File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/asyncio/base_events.py", line 466, in run_until_complete return future.result() File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/asyncio/base_events.py", line 1047, in create_server % (sa, err.strerror.lower())) OSError: [Errno 99] error while attempting to bind on address ('192.185.51.89', 8024): cannot assign requested address What do you think? El lun., 24 jul. 2017 a las 17:47, Mark Sapiro (<mark(a)msapiro.net>) escribió: > On 07/24/2017 03:31 PM, Rafael Mora wrote: > > I got this on maillog: > > > > > > > > [root@localhost log]# cat maillog > > > There's nothing in that log that shows any attempts by anything to > connect to Postfix. You have to look at logs from the processes you > think are trying to send mail and see what they're doing. > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- Atentamente / Best Regards Ing. Rafael Mora

8 years

[MM3-users] users, users and users (was Re: Re: Cannot request password reset: "The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account")

by IOhannes m zmölnig

On 1/28/22 00:58, dave--- via Mailman-users wrote: > The concept of a Django user sounds like the big thing I was missing now that is something that i wanted to get clarifified in the context of my "getting all registered users" question as well. i'm afraid i still do not fully understand which types of "users" there are. afaics, there are three different types: - django users this is what get's listed under <https://lists.mailman3.org/admin/auth/user/> - mailman accounts this is what is created when you visit <https://lists.mailman3.org/accounts/signup/> - email addresses this is what is created when i subscribe to a list *without* having an account. e.g. via the "Subscribe" button on <https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/> afaiu, (multiple) "email addresses" can be associated with a single "mailman account" (but this is strictly optional). if an "email address" is first used to subscribe to a list without a mailman account, and later a mailman account is created with that very email address, they get automatically associated. a single "email address" cannot be associated with more than one "mailman accounts". i think i got this one right (as it seems pretty straightforward). what i don't fully grasp yet is the relation between "django users" and "mailman accounts". intuitively, i would have thought that they are identical. now mark wrote: > a Django user, which is distinct from a Mailman user. The users you > added via the web API are Mailman users, but in order to access their > lists via the web UI they have to `sign up` to create a Django > account. that seems to indicate, that a "django user" is a (strict) superset of a "mailman account". you (as admin) can create "mailman accounts" via the web API¹, but they are only expanded to "mailman accounts" if you (as user) go through the "Sign Up" process. otoh, if you create an initial "django user" by signing up, you automatically create a "mailman account". so are the two distinct concepts that are just associated via some common property (e.g. the email address), or is there some intrinsic relationship between the two (e.g. parent-child inheritance relationship)? so my recent experiment (comparing the output of <https://lists.example.com/admin/auth/user/> with that of `[u for u in getUtility(IUserManager).users]`) indicates that they are indeed distinct objects that *can* be associated with each other. could you please clarify this? so why am i interested in this? "users" are often associated with some capabilities/powers (which can of course be exploited) it makes me rather uneasy to not understand the core permission model. also (as indicated in my original mail), i'm running mailman3-3.2.1, a rather outdated version, on Debian/buster (an outdated Debian release as well). i would like to upgrade rather sooner than later. otoh, just recently there was a thread on how upgrading a Debian-based mailman3 installation (from buster to bullseye, just like what i plan to do) can go wrong. if things do go wrong, i would rather like to understand where they go wrong, so i'd like to prepare myself :-) fmdsf IOhannes ¹ totally OT, but thanks: finally somebody who calls it "web API" rather than just "API" as if there was no non-RESTful world.

3 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: Migrating Mailman 3 lists

by Mark Dadgar

On May 24, 2020, at 7:24 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull <turnbull.stephen.fw(a)u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote: >> Mark Sapiro wrote: >>> On 5/19/20 7:25 PM, Mark Dadgar wrote: > >>>> For reference my pgloader script looks like: >>>> >>>> load database >>>> from sqlite:///var/lib/dbconfig-common/sqlite3/mailman3-web/mailman3web.db >>>> into postgresql://mailman3:XXREDACTEDXX@localhost/mailman >>>> >>>> with include drop, create tables, create indexes, reset sequences, no truncate > >> Have you tried this without indexes and then run the migrate >> script? It may re-create them as part of the schema upgrade >> check. > > That was my immediate guess. I'm not an SQL expert, but I believe > that sequences and indexes are different entities, they're both > optimizations that you don't need (ie, ignoring performance), and > implementations differ on how they're implemented. Eg, if sqlite > implements them as tables, while PostgreSQL has a special data > structure, you could run into this kind of behavior. I'm pretty sure > that these will be recreated appropriate to the new database when the > schema validator is done. > > But don't trust me, and *do* keep a backup. ;-) 😁 I did try it without indexes and it started showing the same warnings. I will give this another try and let it run to completion. I was hesitant to do that because the core database is 7.5 GB and the web database is 35 GB so there are only so many copies I can keep hanging around on the cloud volume. Since the data is mostly text, I am hoping that postgres will compress the bejeesus out of it. - Mark ----- mark(a)pdc-racing.net | 408-348-2878

5 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: Apache+mod_wsgi issue

by Mark Sapiro

On 12/22/22 22:26, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > On Fri, Dec 23, 2022 at 9:21 AM Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> And now I am having a problem with mod_wsgi. >> First, the URL displayed when I load the page looks bogus to me. >> While I expect the URL to be >> https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/domains/, mod_wsgi give me >> https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/mailman3/domains/ - there is an >> extra /mailman3! See below: >> So I have; >> 1. https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/mailman3/lists/ - working, >> or appears to. >> 2. https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/mailman3/domains/ - working, >> or appears to. >> 3. https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/mailman3/bans/ - working, or >> appears to >> 4. https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/mailman3/users - working, or >> appears to >> 5. >> https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/mailman3/lists/kictanet.lists.kic… >> - This throws an exception error when I click "Manage Subscription". >> >> -> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/RkKH793Jgw/ messages like these [Fri Dec 23 09:10:55.393386 2022] [wsgi:error] [pid 74857] [remote 197.232.81.246:14181] File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.9/site-packages/mailmanclient/restbase/connection.py", line 160, in call [Fri Dec 23 09:10:55.393390 2022] [wsgi:error] [pid 74857] [remote 197.232.81.246:14181] raise HTTPError(params.get('url'), response.status_code, [Fri Dec 23 09:10:55.393394 2022] [wsgi:error] [pid 74857] [remote 197.232.81.246:14181] urllib.error.HTTPError: HTTP Error 500: {"title": "500 Internal Server Error"} Indicate an uncaught exception in Mailman core. What's in mailman.log? >> And while I do not quite understand the error itself, there is also one >> particular line that I also saw that has left me baffled: >> [Fri Dec 23 08:53:18.290411 2022] [core:info] [pid 91236] [client >> 197.232.81.246:13865] AH00128: File does not exist: >> /usr/local/www/apache24/data/archives/list/ >> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke/thread/VIHCC6MSXZSNHY7YPEJ3D2US4N7MHJEC/, >> referer: >> https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/archives/list/kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke This is because something is doing an HTTP GET for `/archives/list/kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke/thread/VIHCC6MSXZSNHY7YPEJ3D2US4N7MHJEC/` and the URL is not recognized as one handled by mod_wsgi so apache tries to get it from its DocumentRoot. mod_wsgi has to serve a number of URLs. Look in /opt/mailman/mm/urls.py for urlpatterns. You will probably see things like url(r'^accounts/', include('allauth.urls')), # Django admin url(r'^admin/', admin.site.urls), url(r'^mailman3/', include('postorius.urls')), url(r'^archives/', include('hyperkitty.urls')), Those are all things that need to be handled by mod_wsgi In your apache config, you only have a WSGIScriptAlias for /mailman3. Thus paths need to be prefixed with /mailman3 in order to be handled by mod_wsgi. I'm not sure what is doing this prefixing, but without it paths that don't begin with /mailman3 don't work unless you also have things like WSGIScriptAlias /accounts /opt/mailman/mm/wsgi.py WSGIScriptAlias /admin /opt/mailman/mm/wsgi.py WSGIScriptAlias /archives /opt/mailman/mm/wsgi.py in your apache config. > I also need to add the fact that at the point where I am clicking "Manage > Subscription", the URL has changed to > https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/archives/list/kictanet@lists.kict… > (just a single /mailman3). > Something is adding mailman3/ to URLs. In the above the URL should be https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/archives/list/kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.k…, but an extra /mailman3 is added. The others are like https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/lists/ and an extra /mailman3 is added. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Implementing threading [was: hyperkitty failed to create a thread]

by tlhackque

On 13-Feb-19 21:42, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > As I wrote in later post, the message-ID syntactically requires the <>. > > (just one set). > > > > msg-id = [CFWS] "<" id-left "@" id-right ">" [CFWS] > > > > Look at that for the full syntax and reference. > > Sure. It's messy because the id-left could be a "local-part", which > could be almost anything if quoted, and the id-right could be a domain > literal, which is a little more restricted. No. It's not an address. "local part" has to do with an address. in a Message-ID, It's in "id-left", which is a supposed to be something generated by the host that makes the message unique within the namespace defined by "id-right". And while the rfc recommends that be a domain name, it needn't be. In fact, as one of the references I used pointed out, not all hosts have them. One could generate a UUID and use that for both id-left and id-right & be conforming (though given some client bugs, I'd change the '-' in the standard UUID presentation to '.', or just delete it.) Or one could generate a UUID for the right part, use it for all messages sent by a client, and use something else for the left - like a hash of the message+headers. I tend to use a domain name for the right part, and UUID for the left. Then I prefix the left with a number when I need a Content-ID for a body part. The UUID pretty much makes the right part unnecessary, but since it's syntactically required, when I have a domain name it can be useful for forensics. When I don't, the UUID is fine. The advantage of using a domain name for id-right is that there is a global registration system (DNS) that makes it unlikely for conflicts to occur. And that was true for RFC733 time, when hosts were king. Modulo all the "example.com". But once PCs came around, it doesn't work as well. DHCP-assigned names, un-named clients just don't provide the same uniqueness as bbn-tenex.com used to. I think the '@' was just syntactic sugar - if you accept a domain name for id-right, then, as in an e-mail address, it indicates the scope of the unique part (id-left). But just because it can look like an e-mail address doesn't mean it is one. Treat the whole thing as an opaque string. Nothing else is safe. > > 2822 does say: > > > > Therefore, trying to form a > > "References:" field for a reply that has multiple parents is > > discouraged and how to do so is not defined in this document. > > > > But programmers are rarely discouraged - with GUIs, it's pretty easy to > > intuit that one might like to check the boxes on several branches of a > > thread and respond "Of course, you're all right - see my cat photo". :-) > > Oh, I've done this by hand! ;-) Yes, but did you fix the References header to match? > > > 5537 tries to make life easier - until you get to: > > 5322 has adopted the 5537 language for the abstract construction of > the field. It doesn't say anything at all about the logical length > issue and trimming. Yes, but you brought up the news RFCs, IIRC in saying that they defined threading. My quote was verbatim. 5537 does say you must trim. The point is that the news rfcs may have introduced References, but they have different obstacles to reconstructing threading. > > The best one can do is to come up with a "good enough" > > approximation in the available time, and tinker with/improve it > > until bored. > > Which is what Jamie Zawinski did. His algorithm (adopted by IMAP as > the standard for threading IMAP servers) has three features (1) it's > an algorithm (guaranteed to terminate on finite input :-), (2) it > allows for various tie-breaking methods, and (3) if you have enough > messages from the thread and all In-Reply-To and References conform to > the 5337 language, it will be consistent with all References data. I haven't looked at that. Given the trimming in 3.4.4 of 5337, I don't see how this can be produce the whole thread, unless you are guaranteed to have the complete thread to fill the gaps. And you're not. (3) is the issue - you need "enough" and in the worst case, you get 3 references (First and last two). Plus, you can lose messages for strange reasons: The moderator deleted one for inappropriate content. A message was copied to the list and the poster. The response to the list is lost. But a reply from the poster happens later. So the response in question is never seen by the server, though the reference is. Life is hard :-) As a practical matter, I don't expect a sane coder to trim unless necessary. So there's a good chance that you can reconstruct a complete thread in real life. But "necessary" when your main disk was an 8" floppy (or paper tape) seemed different from my notebook PC has a couple of TB SSDs. That doesn't mean that the code has changed. Heuristics are fine. Guaranteeing that the resulting algorithm terminates is important. But real life doesn't get you to "enough messages" 100% of the time. > > See my other post. The left and right halves can, besides being atoms, > > be non-folding quotes or literals. So you have to handle that. > > Of course, but that's just a SMOP. The harder problem is figuring out > what to do about non-conforming input. And, as I've noted: lost input. > > > Although it has a defined syntax, the semantics are that message-id is > > an opaque globally-unique identifier. Attempting to parse it as > > anything but '<[^>]+>' is likely to be a mistake. > > That's true in a world where people actually follow the rules. When they don't, trying to guess at the semantics of an opaque ID will seem to work for a while. But it amounts to the halting problem. There are lots of variants of "generate a globally unique ID with an '@' in the middle". I may have created a new one today :-) > > > I doubt 'striping' is worth doing - when an message-id is present, > > I've almost always seen it include the required <>. > > Since the delimiters are constants and required, consistently > stripping them doesn't hurt with a well-formed msg-id (the delimiters > aren't allowed in a msg-id). And you do have to strip the whitespace, > because it's likely that different MUAs will do different things with > it since they edit the old value (space-separated, tab-separated). > The point is to get to the unique content. Yes. But if they're well-formed, the <> are there, so stripping them only saves a couple of bytes. If they're not, all bets are off. <two<three(a)example.net> - stripping the outer <>s doesn't help. <"two<three"@example.net> is a valid message-Id, and distinct from <"twothree"@example.net. And is <twothree(a)example.net> distinct from <"twothree"@example.net>? (unnecessary quoting, or a distinct message-ID) If you treat it as opaque, you don't care. Take the whole thing, <@> included, as given and look for it in the other fields. The most you might do is remove quotes (and escapes) and use the left and right parts as your key. The whitespace is the [CFWS] on either side of the "<" id-left "# id-right " > production in 2822. That's where you must strip it to get the unique ID. > > It's also possible to keep the literal content (after stripping > whitespace) as well as the "cleaned" version, and use whichever one > corresponds to a real message or to a different value of References in > the same thread. It would be amusing if *both* were associated with > real messages, but that seems unlikely. You could also fingerprint the user agent (e.g. by the order of headers, format of message-ID), and correct for its bugs. But I'm inclined to report client bugs and get them fixed. Meantime, their messages are unthreaded (but not lost). It's just not worth working around other people's bugs - there are better uses for your time. Just ask the DNS people. They just had a Flag Day to get rid of years of built-up workarounds in nameservers... > > > Until yesterday's hyperkitty bug, I've never seen <<>>. > > At least one of my correspondents has a client that frequently > creates "addresses" of the form "<a(a)b.net <a(a)b.net>>". I don't recall > seeing "<<...>>" before, but I rarely look at Message-IDs. > > > I've rarely seen the <> missing - but I'd consider that a warning > > that the message format is suspect. As in this case. > > Agreed. > > > My suggestion is that if you can't find a message-ID, > > A Message-ID field, or a valid msg-id in the References or In-Reply-To > fields? I meant the latter. It's the references that you need to reconstruct the thread - to the extent possible. > > > keep the message in an "unthreaded" bucket. If you sort that by > > subject (omitting "[listtag]" and "Re:*" (case insensitive, and in > > multiple languages) then by date, you probably have a useful > > presentation. And a list of MUAs that need bug reports :-) > > The thing is that a message without a Message-ID (which I believe > should not happen in Mailman, Mailman will assign one before > distributing IIRC) is going to end up being a singleton thread. If > there are replies to it, I don't see why they would be likely to be > temporally adjacent. If they have proper replies, they will end up as > proper thread roots, not in the unthreaded bucket. Am I missing > something? Yes. A message ID should exist. These days I think all MTAs will assign one if the client doesn't. What I tried to say was that there will be times where you can't figure out where to put a message into the thread graph (or forest). Because it references message that you can't find, or it doesn't have a references or reply-to, or those fields are corrupt. In those cases, put them in a bucket. Call them orphans. Most conversations come in bursts. And if I reply to you, my reply will (modulo time errors) be later than your post. Further, there's a pretty good chance that my subject will be "Re: yours". So, if that bucket is sorted by subject (primary key) and date (secondary), there's a fair approximation that within the set of orphans, they'll be near each-other. Which is better than nothing. You're right that if my client generates good headers and yours doesn't, yours will be orphaned. But at least all your replies will share a subject, so in that bucket will be your side of the conversation, roughly in order. And if you quote my text when replying, both sides. If several people have clients that orphan their replies, they all will cluster because of the subject. And be in rough time order. You do want to skip any [list] tag and [Re:]* because they don't change the subject. These are heuristics - you might come up with better ones. The idea is that they don't rely on or try to fix any particular fault in the client's posts. Either a message conforms, or it doesn't. If it does, it gets threaded as everyone expects. If it doesn't , it's an orphan, and there's one place to find it. And with a modest effort, this should keep related ones close to each-other. It's better than just keeping the orphans sorted by date - the subject tends to be stable. But it's not perfect. E.g. the not-uncomon 'Re: dogs are better (was cats rule)' won't keep the thread together. But it seems better than nothing, without endless improvement. Once the afflicted users learn that messages they post are put into the Orphans thread, they can complain to their clients' developers. Meantime, life should be tolerable - but annoying enough for them to keep the pressure on for a fix :-) > > If it's an unusable munged reference in References, the munged > reference may be visible as a placeholder (no real message) in a > separate subthread, or pruned (and invisible) because no real message > is indicated by it. The indicated message will be in a separate > subthread if it has a valid References (including no References, in > which case it will be a thread root). And, of course, if it's not the > immediate parent, other messages' References fields will likely allow > the message to be threaded corrects. AFAICS "stripping and cleaning" > an invalid msg-id is highly unlikely to duplicate a valid msg-id > associated with a different message, athough there's a good chance it > won't allow identification of any message at all -- which is where we > started. > > Yes, and that's why I think it's wasted effort. Opaque means "Opaque". If you don't have one that conforms, use something else, and use the imperfections to get the bug(s) fixed. At least with an orphans bucket, you don't end up with "invisible" messages. They're just not where you expected. Like the SPAM folder :-) You know where to look, and you know that anything in there means there's a bug to fix.

6 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Installation Questions [Installation}

by Gerald Vogt

On 04.11.24 09:13, Odhiambo Washington via Mailman-users wrote: > On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 10:34 AM Gerald Vogt <vogt(a)spamcop.net> wrote: >> On your server it looks like this: >> >> # ls -la /etc/mailman3 >> total 28 >> drwxr-xr-x. 2 root mailman 95 Oct 25 08:12 . >> drwxr-xr-x. 99 root root 8192 Oct 29 07:42 .. >> -rw-r--r--. 1 root mailman 266 Oct 25 07:37 gunicorn.conf >> -rw-r-----. 1 root mailman 92 Nov 21 2023 mailman-hyperkitty.cfg >> -rw-r-----. 1 root mailman 797 Sep 9 11:20 mailman.cfg >> -rw-r-----. 1 root mailman 3015 Oct 25 08:12 settings.py >> >> and it works just fine. >> > > True, but making the mailman user own the files makes life easier when you > operate from the virtualenv - > you do not have to exit the virtualenv to edit the files in /etc/mailman3, > and then re-enter the virtualenv. The virtualenv doesn't change the current uid. That doesn't make a difference. > You do not have to give the mailman user sudoer rights. That's the whole > point about the below: > > ``` > sudo mkdir /etc/mailman3 > sudo chown mailman:mailman /etc/mailman3 > sudo chmod 755 /etc/mailman3 > ``` Well, that essentially was my question: why does the mailman user require sudo rights? Why does it need to be able to write or change those files/directories? Except for the convenience which isn't a reason to weaken security. In respect to security, i.e. separation of the service user from write access to it's core configuration files, it should not be done unless absolutely necessary. I haven't seen a reason, yet, and our server runs just fine. That's why I am asking. Thanks, Gerald

8 months, 4 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Deactivate list without deleting it?

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Colin Watson writes: > I possibly should have explained our situation in a little more > detail. Well, I was pretty clear on your requirements, it turns out. I don't, and I believe I'm in agreement with the rest of the team here, need to know why you want something (at least not at this "let's see if we can hash out the requirements and the design a bit" stage). After all, even if we end up WONTFIXing it, it's open source and we're happy to talk about how you might do something even if we won't do it for you! > Postorius wouldn't come into it in our case That's an interesting detail. Thing is, at present Postorius *is* the "control panel" for the whole suite (all the best bands are run by their bassists, you know), so we would bring it up if you left it out. However, if you don't want to use Postorius, I think the mailman-client functionality will make it strightforward to implement your UI within Launchpad, and it now includes a nicer CLI so if you prefer to implement core and Hyperkitty functionality before the Launchpad side, mailman-client will allow you to test core features at that stage. > I'd been thinking more of a new enum in HyperKitty for the visibility > state, since it does seem like quite an archiver-specific thing. Well, there is an enum in core for it already. I'm not sure how that works currently (specifically, how you go about telling Hyperkitty if that changes). Keeping that in sync is an issue (at least for us), since Postorius can query it, IIRC. For the rest, I have nothing to add to what Barry already wrote. Steve

7 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: "Approved:" header from mailman2 times

by Abhilash Raj

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018, at 8:59 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 04/09/2018 03:59 PM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 9, 2018, at 3:00 PM, Dmitry Makovey wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> is there any equivalent to "Approved" header that was present in MM2 in > >> MM3 land? Google is not very helpful in that. > > > > It does exist in Mailman 3 as a carry-over from Mailman 2, but AFAIK it is broken. > > > I don't think it is broken, but it requires setting the > moderator_password attribute for the list which can be set visa REST but > I think not by mailmanclient. > Thanks Mark for clarification. > > > Also, I have been thinking of not having this as a feature in Mailman 3, mostly because of the issue of having shared passwords. No one should be sending out passwords anyway through plain emails anyway. > > > > > Agreed. This is a shared password. and would be sent in plain text as a > header or body line. > > It would be nice though to have some feature to enable, for example, > spoof proof posting to a one-way (announce only) list. > > One thought on how to do this would be to have a list attribute that > says posts from 'authenticated' owners and moderators can be auto > approved and authentication could be by PGP signing the post. This would > require Mailman to have the ability to verify a PGP signature from an > owner or moderator which is not currently the case. +1 on using PGP signatures for doing this and that is exactly what I was thinking :) -- Abhilash Raj maxking(a)asynchronous.in

7 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman automatic accept notification

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Tambet Paide via Mailman-users writes: > The problem is that I will get always message that mail has been > delivered and also not delivered when somebody send mail to the > list and also every other user in the list, but the only one who > not get those messages is the sender. This means that the sender is either not on the list or has delivery disabled. It is unrelated to the problem of bounce messages going to the subscribers. > Would like to make it so that only the sender will get those > messages not everybody else Normally the sender does not know about the subscribers in detail, so we try to make the default configuration that a delivery failure notice (bounce message) goes to the list owner, who is the only person who can do anything about it. As far as I know, there is no way to configure bounce messages to go to the original sender. That is normally a very bad idea, because the original sender cannot do anything about mailing list bounces, unless they happen to be the list owner anyway. On the other hand, the list owner has need to know because if anybody can fix the problem, they can. If you have a reason why the original sender should get these messages (that is some action they should take to fix the situation), let us know, and we'll try to figure something out. But I can't think of one myself. > Example what every user will get but not the sender: > > Mail DeliverySystem<MAILER-DAEMON@LOCALHOST> > Sent on:Wednesday,November18, 2020 6:58:30PM > To: list.<domain> oneofexamplelist<oneofexamplelist(a)lists.domain.XX> > > Subject: Undeliverable: mail-subject 17.11.2020 > Attachments: one-attachment 17.11.2020.msg(38.5 KB) > > Delivery to these recipients or groups failed: > > oneofexamplelist(a)lists.domain.XX This is not an "uncaught bounce" message from Mailman. This is a normal delivery status notification from the mail daemon on your system, that happens to have been sent to the list. Assuming both instances of "oneofexamplelist(a)lists.domain.XX" refer to the same address, it looks to me like you have the mailing list configured as the list owner address. That will cause you a lot of pain. Change that to the personal address of the list owner. If that is not the case, perhaps the list is anonymized so that the author appears to be the list. In email, the author (the person and email in From:) is separate from the sender (which usually does not appear in the header that recipients see). It is the sender which should receive bounce messages. By default Mailman is configured to direct bounce messages to a special address like oneofexamplelist-bounces(a)lists.domain.XX. Either that configuration has been changed, or your mail daemon is sending errors to author, not to sender. > The recipient's e-mail system is currently busy and cannot receive > messages. Please try sending the message again later. The > following authority rejected your message I do not understand the part about "system busy" above. Obviously the list is working because your subscribers are getting the annoying bounce message. The only thing I can think of is that some kind of mail loop is occurring, but Mailman should be rejecting it with an explanation that a mail loop is occurring and a permanent failure. (I say "should" because that's how I would design it, but I don't know that part of the code, and don't have time to find it today. Sorry.) > mailman.xxxx.XX Is xxxx.XX the same as domain.XX? Steve

4 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] mailman 2.1 or 3.0 (or another MLM)

by nate

Hello mailman users out there - I have been a casual user of mailman for 21 years now I think it is. Most of my lists were super small (my only current lists have no more than 8 members each), super low volume. It's "just worked" over the years, no issues. I have been using Linux since 1996, not a newbie here. 21 years ago I deployed mailman as part of our corporate email and then there were a lot more users. Since that time I just use mailman on my personal server. I did a apt-get dist-upgrade on my system and was surprised to see mailman had vanished. Wasn't expecting that.. not a big deal, or so I thought. I am running Devuan 4, which is based on Debian. Investigating further it seems Debian at some point dropped Mailman 2.1 and started including Mailman 3. OK, not too bad I thought.. I was/am prepared to start my mailing lists from scratch again, manually copy/paste over settings/users/etc. Don't care about archives etc. I setup mailman 2.1 on another Devuan 3.x system and copied my mailman configs over to it, and can view them fine via the mailman cgi scripts through Apache, I was planning on just copy/pasting list settings between the two systems for each list. Roughly 10-15mins into trying to get mailman3 off the ground I just find myself overwhelmed. That doesn't happen often. I'm honestly completely shocked at how it seems the complexity of the system has increased by orders of magnitude. I have been browsing around https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/pre-installation-guide.html (and other links on that documentation site) But as much information as there is, to me there really isn't any information there. If that makes sense. I'm sure it doesn't make sense so let me give an example. On this page: https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-web.html I assume that would lead me to how do I configure the web interface so I can do stuff with it. I setup an admin account, then it goes into scheduled tasks(which appear to be handled by the Debian package already but don't know what these tasks would have to do with a web interface). I tried sending a test email but that failed, I looked at the setting up email portion but it does not give any indication where that config would be stored, a recursive grep on /etc for EMAIL_BACKEND turns up nothing (there is a /etc/mailman3 directory with some files in there). Then it goes into other things like task queues, full text searching, here I am just looking for info on where this web interface is, where is the config, what port does it listen on? Is it a cgi like mailman2? It seems like it could be a standalone service. Then it shows a bunch of other settings, not indicating what file these are stored in(or what directory the file is in), etc etc etc. Debian's own documentation is severely lacking in this department as well, normally I am used to going to /usr/share/doc/<package>/ and there is some useful stuff. There is stuff for mailman3 but it's minimal at best. So I'm thinking mailman3 is not the package for me. I've really appreciated mailman 2.1 (and earlier versions) as I said they always just worked, never had to think about them. I'm sure a lot of good hard work has been put into 3, I just don't recall the last time I looked at a project and just honestly didn't even know where to begin which surprised me so much given my 20+ year history of mailman as a user and as an admin. Is there some document(s) out there that would be more beneficial to me in setting up mailman3? I see that mailman 2 looks like it's still being maintained, I assume mailman3 is the result of python3 code and mailman2 perhaps uses python 2.7? I am unsure on the ability to run mailman2 on a modern Debian-based distro since of course Python 2.7 is pretty obsolete at this point (or maybe Mailman 2.1 doesn't use python I don't recall). I could try to install the older mailman 2.1 package on Devuan 4 and see what happens I don't know if it would be that simple or not. Or is there a better MLM for simple use cases? I used Majordomo back in the 90s and was happy to get onto Mailman from that. Something similar to Mailman 2.1 in features/functionality. Worst case I could just use aliases in my postfix config at the end of the day that is all that is really needed, though I do like some level of access control on who can email the lists(even if nobody outside the list knows the list exists), I've had some of these lists for 2 decades, old habits die hard right? I did some searches for mailing list software on the Debian package archives and saw a few options, nothing really stood out at me as something super interesting yet though. I don't mean to come across as harsh or complaining or anything I'm just here in shock kind of. Thinking about what the best solution for me would be. My mailing lists have been broken for a couple of weeks but that's really not a big deal. thanks nate

3 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: Unknown attribute: max_message_size

by Alexander Klotz

Hi, just encountering the same problem in postorious, how are the chances of a fix being released soon? Otherwise, we will try the workaround mentioned here: https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/commit/f86ab7fb5cc6edeb23c43336b677c24… Regards, Alex Am 06.12.17 um 20:03 schrieb Abhilash Raj: > > > On Wed, Dec 6, 2017, at 08:25 AM, Simon Hanna wrote: >> On 12/06/2017 11:40 AM, Thor Atle Rustad wrote: >>> If I make changes here: >>> https://example.com/postorius/lists/test2.example.com/settings/message_acce…, >>> I get a warning that the Maximum Message Size field at the bottom is >>> mandatory. However, if I put a number in that field and save, I get >>> "Unknown attribute: max_message_size". That makes sense, since Mark states >>> in >>> https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… >>> that max_messages_size is not exposed in REST. >> It is. https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/merge_requests/329 > > I have added a backport-candidate tag to the MR and will get it out in > 3.1.2 release, if that happens. > >> >>> >>> What to do? > > I understand that it might not be the best answer, but `rolling` tags > for images do have this problem fixed, they are based on Git-heads. > >>> >>> I have Maxking mailman-docker but can easily copy files into the image if >>> necessary. >> Are you sure you have up to date images? >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailman-users mailing list >> mailman-users(a)mailman3.org >> https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Alexander Klotz (redaktion kulturserver) mailto:alexk@kulturserver.de Stiftung kulturserver.de gGmbH Lothringerstraße 23 D-52062 Aachen http://ggmbh.kulturserver.de Geschäftsführer: Wolfgang Knauff Amtsgericht Aachen* *Handelsregister-Nr.:B 10515 Umsatzsteuer-Identifikations-Nr.:DE DE 230868040

7 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: Finding a user to delete them

by Abhilash Raj

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Quanah Gibson-Mount wrote: > Due to a bug in mailman3, I have an incorrect user that's been created via > github auth that has no confirmed email address yet. > > I've been poking around the user manager documentation (why is there no > UI > for user management???), and after adding in bits that are missing from > the > official documentation > (<https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/model/docs/usermanager…> > is missing "from mailman.testing.documentation import dump_list" > despite > using dump_list repeatedly in its examples) I can't find the user. dump_json is a documentation helper method which doesn't do much except calling the URL and dumping the returned json in a pretty-printed fashion. https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/documentation.html All the documentation helpers are defined here. > > I have the confirmation email mailman3 sent out, that tells me the username > mailman3 created for the incorrect account is "quanah98", but the user > manager documentation doesn't detail how to find a user by their username, > only their email. And apparently if the email hasn't been confirmed (and I > *do not* want it confirmed), you can't find them by email. > > Suggestions on how to track down this user so I can delete them would be > much appreciated. > > Thanks, > Quanah > > -- > > Quanah Gibson-Mount > Product Architect > Symas Corporation > Packaged, certified, and supported LDAP solutions powered by OpenLDAP: > <http://www.symas.com> > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

5 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: How to limit numbers of outgoing emails per connection

by Odhiambo Washington

On Mon, Feb 10, 2025 at 3:57 PM Alain D D Williams <addw(a)phcomp.co.uk> wrote: > Exim tells me "no immediate delivery: more than 30 messages received in > one connection" > > The emails then sit in the exim queue until a queue runner kicks in - which > happens once every 30 minutes. The result is considerable delays which > makes > list email conversations bouncy. > > Question: how do I tell MM3 to send no more than 30 emails in one > connection to > exim (via SMTP to localhost port 25) ? > > If that is not possible, how do I find the number that MM3 batches outgoing > emails so that I can configure exim to match (as I did with MM2) ? > > I see documentation pages like the following. They are useless to me, > incomprehensible without a lot of learning. I program in several languages > but > only a little Python. What I am looking for is a setting in a config file. > > > https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/runners/do… My biggest MM3 list has 1289 members. I have these global settings on exim config: # exim4u: Values to modify to fix "Connection Refused: Too Many Connections" smtp_accept_max = 400 smtp_accept_max_per_host = 20 smtp_accept_queue_per_connection = 0 Exim has never chocked on any post to this ML. As Jared has explained, which I think is a better approach if you have big lists, you can control the settings from mailman.cfg. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 In an Internet failure case, the #1 suspect is a constant: DNS. "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]

5 months, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Caching problem with templates

by Mark

On Thu, 2025-06-26 at 18:36 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > You can delete the cached entry from the database via `mailman shell > as in > >>> cm = getUtility(ICacheManager) > >>> uri = 'the_uri_from_the_template_table' > >>> cm.get(uri, expunge=True) > >>> commit() > ``` > > You can also delete the entry from the file_cache table, but if you > do > that, the actual file containing the cached data will remain. To > remove > it, > > Rather than doing any of the above, if you want to manipulate the > database, just set the expires_on column in the file_cache table > entry > to a date in the past. > Hi Mark, Thank you for this information. I've given the options a good workout over the last couple of days and found that: 1. Deleting the cache via the mailman shell does the job, but is beyond me to script. There are numerous lists and list owners updating their templates. 2. Changing the expires_on date (to a date in the past) in the file_cache table didn't prevent the cached entry from being used; 3. What did work was removing the records in the file_cache table PLUS removing the corresponding files in var/cache/*/*/* -- for example: /opt/mailman/mm/var/cache/3a/2f/* This I was able to script in bash and cron to run every minute. A hack I know, but it's working for now. I've attached the script in case it's of use to anyone else. (mailman_clear_template_cache.txt) Note: change <USER> in the script to what suits. Does Mailman really need to cache the templates? It seems to be an unnecessary complication. Anyways it happy days again. Thank you again, very much. Your guidance was appreciated immensely as always. Best, Mark

1 month

[MM3-users] Re: converting bulk accept_these_nonmembers in migration from mailman 2 to 3

by Mark Sapiro

On 2/12/22 08:19, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > Dear Mark, thanks for your interest. > > On Fri, 11 Feb 2022, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> This may actually be a bug. I'll have to think about that. I've filed >> https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/978 on this. > >> This is https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/794 (still open) > > Given the time needed to solve the issues (I will anyhow notify the site > administrators, hopting they would update mailman when/if resolved), > this means we have to find a workaround. https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/978 has been fixed. You can apply the fix to mailman/rules/moderation.py from https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/merge_requests/961/diffs > not sure what you mean by "defer". The non-member options I see are called > > List default -- follow the list's default member action. > Hold -- This holds the message for approval by the list moderators. > Reject -- this automatically rejects the message by sending a bounce > notice to the post's author. The text of the bounce notice can be > configured by you. > Discard -- this simply discards the message, with no notice sent to the > post's author. > Accept -- accepts any postings without any further checks. > Default Processing -- run additional checks and accept the message. `defer` is what's called `Default Processing` in the above list. > But if hold_these_nonmembers takes priority this will be uselesws in the > current setting. True, but if you apply the fix for https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/978, hold_these_nonmembers won't take priority. > I go to the non-member list, select non-member options and at the bottom > see an item Administration options Moderation. The possible values are > those I pasted above. > > The actual value for most of the imported non-members is "Default > processing" while it is "List default" for thoase automatically added > afresh, It is "Discard" for a number of imported non-members with > spam-looking addresses (I guess they were in some other *_not_members > part of the standard 2.1 antispam ... I can't recall me doing something > on those) That all seems exactly what it should be. > Side question: is there a way to operate IN BULK on non-members ? Like > it is for members (I exported them to CSV). No. Postorius doesn't currently support a CSV export for nonmembers as it does for members, but you could do the equivalent in `mailman shell` ``` $ mailman shell -l list.example.com Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell Use commit() to commit changes. Use abort() to discard changes since the last commit. Exit with ctrl+D does an implicit commit() but exit() does not. The variable 'm' is the list.example.com mailing list >>> for nonmemb in m.nonmembers.members: ... print(nonmemb.address.email) ... ``` > I am not so concerned of these 189 (or better of the 189 minus the > discard ones which should stay) ... anyhow moving them back will be > uncomfortable if there is not a bulk operation tool. > > I am more concerned of the new cases automatically added. Apply the patch. ... > (*) by the way do you confirm that if one is subscribed to a list with > an address (be it bulk subscription, import or new fast subscription), > this person CANNOT change their settings (or address) unless one does a > "sign in" to a (Postorius) account ? That is correct. User's can add multiple addresses to their identity, change addresses and change other settings, but currently that has to be done via Postorius or another web UI that communicates with Mailman Core's REST API. ...>> Addresses still work, and accept_these_nonmembers takes precedence >> over hold_these_nonmembers just as in MM 2.1. > > This was not my impression when I ran a thorough test of 12 cases. > Except the obvious case of the subscriber posting from the subscription > address, all messages went on hold. If a nonmember address is in accept_these_nonmembers, a post from that address should be accepted regardless of hold_these_nonmembers. > Whatever the non-member moderation would be (even if set to reject ! ... > but that makes sense if *_these_nonmembers prevail on non-member > options), and even if the address was set explicitly in > accept_these_nonmembers (should I delete it from the non-member list ?) You can leave it as a nonmember. > What is the actual order (or flow chart) of choices ? Without the fix for https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/978 the order is - Is the sender a member? If so, apply the member's moderation action or list default. - The sender is a nonmember, if the address matches one of (accept|hold|reject|discard)_these_nonmembers (checked in that order), apply that action. - If no match above, apply the nonmember's moderation action - will be `List Default` for new nonmembers. With the fix for https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/978 the order is - Is the sender a member? If so, apply the member's moderation action or list default. - The sender is a nonmember, if the nonmember's moderation action is other than List Default, apply that action. - If not, if the address matches one of (accept|hold|reject|discard)_these_nonmembers (checked in that order), apply that action. - If none of the above, apply the list's default nonmember action. > *_these_nonmembers in the order listed in the page (within each in the > order of occurrence of regexp's) then non-member options ? That's the way it works without the fix except the order of regexps/addresses in a *_these_nonmembers list is immaterial. if the address matches any one of them, that action applies. > If I have Name.Surname(a)inaf.it in accept_these_nonmembers, then > hold_these_nonmembers set to > > ^.+@.+\.it > ^.+@.+\.tng\.iac\.es > > what do you foresee ? Assuming Name.Surname(a)inaf.it is not a member, a post from Name.Surname(a)inaf.it will not be held for nonmember moderation. > And for different regexps, will processing terminate at the first > non-matching one, will they be ANDed or ORed, or what ? They will all be checked until one matches or none do., I.e., effectively ORed. > I am reluctant to accept inconditionally ^.+\..+(a)inaf\.it (they may be > falsified, only the check on their presence in the other list (issue 794) > > I guess I should remove the ^.+@.+\.it regexp AND AT THE SAME TIME > change the Default action to take when a non-member posts to the list to > Hold instead of Discard. > > This way we'll have to check spam (instead of having it auto-discarded), > but if people with alternate addresses post, once they are entered in > the Non-member list they can be authorized to pass for the future ... > > .. would it work ? I think that would work, but if you just apply the patch from https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/merge_requests/961/diffs, it will work the way it did in MM 2.1 honoring a nonmember's explicit moderation action before checking *_these_nonmembers. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: importlib_resources issue?

by Dave McGuire

On 8/14/23 15:29, Dave McGuire wrote: > Hi folks, I'm trying to test a fresh venv-based install from this > procedure: > > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html > > Platform is SmartOS (Solaris 11) with Python 3.10. The installation > goes fine, but initial startup bombs with: > > ImportError: cannot import name 'path' from 'importlib_resources' > (/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages/importlib_resources/__init__.py) > > I assume this is related to importlib_resources moving into stdlib at > some point. Is there a reasonable way around this? [yeah, yeah, I know, replying to my own mail] I've worked out how to get past this. There may be a better way (I'd appreciate the info if so), but I found this: https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/1093 ...and noted Mark's patch at the bottom. Of course that meant downloading the tarball, when I had wanted to do a nice clean install via pip. So, I downloaded the 3.3.8 tarball, extracted it, edited that line in setup.py, tarred it back up again, and did "pip install <tarball>" after installing the other dependencies (wheel and pymysql). A bunch of other stuff blew up...it required the cryptography module, which in turn requires rust, which in turn requires a lot of swap. Oh, and pkg-config. I dealt with all of that, and mailman-core starts up, after complaining about not being able to find postmap. That program lives in /opt/local/sbin under SmartOS, so I've got to find out where to fix the paths, but first I'll see if I can get the front end built. (Remember, this is all a test; if I can get everything working smoothly and replicably I'll do it on the real server.) On to the front-end.. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

1 year, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman installation results in KeyError: 'env_py'

by Abhilash Raj

On Sun, Oct 22, 2017, at 01:28 PM, Marvin Gülker wrote: > Hi, > > Am 22. October 2017 um 11:47 Uhr -0700 schrieb Abhilash Raj > <maxking(a)asynchronous.in>: > > As Simon mentioned, try using DEBUG=False, if you don't already have > > that. With DEBUG=True, you should see emails printed in a `emails` > > directory under `mailman-suite_project` directory. > > Bingo! Man, I was not seeing the forest for the trees. I should have > peeked inside that emails folder. And yes, changing the DEBUG flag > resolves the problem and emails now go out as they should. My bad! > Thank you! > > > > That being said, the enormous number of configuration files to consider > > > and dozens of cross-references to other pages in the docs make the > > > installation guide hard to follow; it also lacks logical structure in my > > > opinion, when it refers to parts of the configuration which are later > > > explained. For someone like me who never programmed a Django application > > > (Ruby dev) this is all pretty cryptic. Especially, that some parts of > > > information are on <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/index.html> whereas > > > other parts are scattered over readthedocs.io makes it very > > > complicated. > > > > There are only two primary configuration files (there are a few more for > > finer configurations ;-): > > Mh, mailman.cfg, settings.py, and hyperkitty.py are three. But I agree, > I exaggerated. > > > All the settings mentioned in the documentation go to either of these > > files, except, when configuring web server and mail server. Please open > > an issue[2] if it is not clear where a particular configuration snippet > > goes and we will fix it. > > I'll open an issue later; for now off the top of my head so I won't > forget I came over these problems with the docs: > > * The linked installation guide for Sass > (<http://sass-lang.com/install>) does not include any C/C++ > implementation you speak of. Fixed, http://sass-lang.com/libsass is the correct URL, not sure why is it not mentioned under `/install`. > * The mailman-suite's settings.py includes a handler for Less, which is > not mentioned in any documentation. I don't think we use `less` anymore, I will confirm this and remove it if needed. It hasn't caused a problem yet, so I am assuming it is never used. https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-suite/issues/7 > * It's officially suggested to use the "fhs" filesystem path > layout. It's not documented that you need to create the exact > directories and change permissions accordingly; even worse, if one > uses this layout, Mailman tries to write into /sbin, which only the > package manager is allowed to do. Thus, don't recommend that layout in > <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/config-core.html>. I have been thinking which layout is best and should be used. FHS makes most sense, but it is true that `pip` can't write to `/sbin` and hence it doesn't work if you aren't using a package manager. I have changed the docs to recommend `master` layout which uses the whichever directory the `mailman` command is stored in as `bin_dir`. > * This page: <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/config-core.html> does not > mention that the "postfix_lmtp" and "postfix_domains" files are > *generated* by Mailman. I spend quite some time looking for these > files before I found in the Mailman Core docs that they're generated > and it was not an error in my installation. Added a note about it in the docs under "Configuring MTA" section. > * This page: <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/config-core.html> configures > the LMTP server and the REST API server for the same TCP port > (8024). This clashes. Fixed, thanks! > * This page: <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/config-web.html> should > mention the thing with the DEBUG variable we've successfully worked > through in > this thread. Added a note about it. > * There's no mention of how to create the initial superuser on > <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/>, it is hidden down in > <https://postorius.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup.html>, where however > there's no mention of the mailman-suite, but some kind of > "example_project". It was unclear to me whether this now applied to me > or not. Added a section about it under http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-web.html > * <http://docs.list.org/en/latest> contains quite some pip install > commands (duplicated from the postorius/hyperkitty/core docs), but > it's missing "$ pip3 install mailman-hyperkitty", which is only > mentioned in <http://hyperkitty.readthedocs.io/en/latest/install.html> > in the text body (but not as a command block). Added to the installation guide. > * This page: > <http://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/mta.html> > uses "configuration: python:mailman.config.postfix" in the > introductory text without explanation, but down in the > Postfix-specific block the directive is missing with no explanation. I > opted to include it, but I don't know whether that's now correct or > not. You only need to specify settings that you want to override from default. "configuration" for Postfix used to be completely blank until recently, when we added support for regex maps along with hash maps in Postfix. The default is set to hash maps and you don't need to specify the configuration if you using it, if you need to use regex maps, you create a new configuration file and point to it under "configuration". I will see how to make that more clear in there. > The overall problem I had with the docs is that they can't be followed > top-down. One has to refer to the subproject docs if something is > unclear, then searching in them until one finds what one was looking for > (even if one doesn't know what one is looking for, as with the superuser > creation command). I totally appreciate the detailed subproject-docs > approach, but you should follow it consequently then. That is, do not > duplicate some information from the subproject docs in the mailman-suite > docs. It creates the impression as if the mailman-suite docs are > complete, which they aren't. Instead, the mailman-suite docs should use > explicit references, for example: > > 1. Do this... > 2. Now follow the procedure outlined in [Postorius Installation link] > 3. Do something else... > 4. Follow the procudedure in [Hyperkitty installation link] > > That way, the Mailman installation guide would be less of a puzzle. > It however might just be me. I apologise if I sound silly. It wasn't silly at all, in-fact you comments were very helpful to improve the documentation. We would like to not make assumptions about pre-requisite knowledge to use Mailman's documentation and it is hard for us developers to do that without feedback. Thanks a lot to you! -- Abhilash Raj maxking(a)asynchronous.in

7 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: mailman 3 adding extraneous /var/ to pid path?

by Abhilash Raj

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017, at 02:42 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 09/21/2017 01:29 PM, Andrew Hodder wrote: > > > > I keep getting around this by creating symlinks to the pid file and then > > the stop works, but it's getting silly. It seems like mailman just assumes > > CWD + /var/ + master.pid must be the location. Once I realized this, I > > found I can do "mailman stop" so long as I'm only in /opt/mailman/ (since > > it'd then add /var/master.pid). But that seems a little nonsensical. > > > That is the normal expected behavior if devmode is enabled. Check your > configs for this. I don't think `devmode` has anything to do with this, it only disables sending out emails by accident and routes all emails to a pre-defined address. Haven't looked at the relevant portion of the source so I might be wrong. In the absence of any configuration file in pre-defined locations[1], Core will always generate a `var/` directory under $CWD with basic configuration and use it to track a running mailman instance (logs, db, pid file etc). Ideally, you should place your configuration file at one of the locations that it looks and specify a `[paths.custom]` directive in there to make sure it knows where to put everything. See [2] for more details. [1]: http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-core.html#configuring-mailman-core [2]: http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-core.html#configuring-filesystem-… > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ -- Abhilash Raj maxking(a)asynchronous.in

7 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: templates

by Christian

In March when I started troubleshooting my lists, you stated: "Also, one other thing you might check. Do these non-working lists have templates defined in postorius, in particular, one for list:member:regular:footer, and if not, are there any in Mailman's var/templates/lists/redlatinleg(a)lists.ccalternatives.org/ derectory that Mailman doesn't have permission to find and read?" There are no other templates listed in either Postorius nor in Mailman's var/templates (as I stated, I do not even lave a 'lists' subdirectory under Mailman's var/templates). My subscribers are not receiving message distributions from my lists, even while some of them are listed in the archives. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2023 10:58 AM To: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org Subject: [MM3-users] Re: templates On 5/4/23 10:33, Christian via Mailman-users wrote: > I'm having issues with my lists. For each list I have created a > template [ list:user:action:subscribe ]which has a prospective > subscriber have to consent to list rules before they are subscribed. > This template I created is listed in Postorius for each list. I have > noticed that there are no other templates listed in Postorius. Furthermore, there is no 'lists' > subdirectory under Mailman's var/templates/. When you set a template in Postorius it saves it in the postorius_emailtemplate table in the database and tells Mailman core to get the template from Postorius via a URI to a Postorius API. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ Archived at: https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message/ QIHCMEBWANR67HV3NKBK5MCQNSNZRF2A/ This message sent to csa(a)web-analysts.net

2 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: cleanup lost users completly - mailman shell

by Mark Sapiro

On 2/21/22 03:28, Paul Paulchen wrote: > > Thanks to this thread, I know how to find the lost souls in our mailman environment > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/… > > > >>> um = getUtility(IUserManager) > >>> for usr in um.users: > ... if len(list(usr.memberships.members)) > 0: > ... continue > ... adr = usr.addresses[0] > ... print(f'Name: {adr.display_name}, Email: {adr.email}, Created: {usr.created_on}') > > So I can see them now. Is there a technique, to clean them up? To get rid of them out of the system? > I am not a python programmer, but I guess there is a way to use, instead of a single user, a list of users in the delete command of the mailman shell? The replies by Guillermo and Andrew both point to a message/thread containing the same clean_users.py script. This script will do some of what you want, but maybe not all of it. It will delete Django users who have no corresponding Mailman user or have a corresponding Mailman user that has no role on any list, and optionally delete the Mailman user as well. What it won't do is delete a Mailman user that has no role on any list if there is no corresponding Django user. For that you would want to add to the above fragment so it becomes: ``` >>> um = getUtility(IUserManager) >>> for usr in um.users: ... if len(list(usr.memberships.members)) > 0: ... continue ... adr = usr.addresses[0] ... print(f'Name: {adr.display_name}, Email: {adr.email}, Created: {usr.created_on}') ... um.delete_user(usr) ... print(' Deleted.) ... >>> commit() ``` -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Docker or virtualenv?

by Odhiambo Washington

On Sat, Dec 31, 2022 at 2:29 PM Andrew Hodgson <andrew(a)hodgson.io> wrote: > Tim Cutts <tim(a)thecutts.org> wrote: > > >I’ve used docker on my setup. I have been wondering about this though, it > causes me to need to run an AWS VM continuously to run my mailing lists, > and that probably isn’t really necessary. I do sometimes wonder whether > docker might be a better approach and run it under ECS, so I no longer have > to >look after a VM. > > >Even better, MM3 is just a bunch of python functions at the end of the > day, and it doesn’t *need* to be running continuously. Mailing lists are, > more or less by definition, event driven. Has anyone considered whether > it’s feasible to turn it into a bunch of Lambda functions with a serverless > database behind >it? > > I actually moved from Docker to Virtualenv on my machine as I wanted to > use the same larger VM to run a Cloudron instance which takes over Docker. > Overall I have been more happier with the virtualenv approach as it allows > me to customise the install more easier. I did look at running Mailman > using Azure Container instances. The main thing here is we need to get the > MTA integrated, and the MTA needs to send out emails from a static IP > address with reverse DNS etc setup. This isn't easy to do on anything other > than a VM. > MM3 can use a local or a remote MTA, I believe. However, for the MTA to send out emails to the "Internet", then DNS/PTR requirements must be met. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-)

2 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Problem with redirection when entering alias without a / at the end

by Jens Günther

Am 19.03.21 um 23:04 schrieb Mark Sapiro: > On 3/19/21 2:55 PM, Jens Günther wrote: >> >> When I want to get to Mailman Starting Page now I need to Enter the >> following URL: https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman3/ to be directly >> redirected as expected to >> https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman3/postorius/lists/ -> works. >> >> Problem: When leave out the slash at the end and I ONLY enter the >> following URL: https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman3 -> then I'm wrongly >> redirected to a page, taht does not exist: >> https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman/postorius/lists/ -> 404 > > > Huh? that is the same URL as the one above that you say works. Do you > mean https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman/postorius/lists without the slash or > what. Here is the difference: https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman3/ https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman3 -> the first one works and leeds to https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman3/postorius/lists -> the second one redirects to https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman/postorius/lists -> which does not exist, since Apache-alias is only for mailman3 >> Where can I change this misbehaviour? In Apache-conf everything seems as >> it's in the docs, for the vHost I do not have any other custom settings. > > > What is the exact content of your RedirectMatch or ReweriteRule or > whatebver you are using? > I only use the apache-conf given in the documentation: <code> Alias /mailman3/favicon.ico /var/lib/mailman3/web/static/postorius/img/favicon.ico Alias /mailman3/static /var/lib/mailman3/web/static <Directory "/var/lib/mailman3/web/static"> Require all granted </Directory> <IfModule mod_proxy_uwsgi.c> ProxyPass /mailman3/favicon.ico ! ProxyPass /mailman3/static ! ProxyPass /mailman3 unix:/run/mailman3-web/uwsgi.sock|uwsgi://localhost/ </IfModule> </code>

4 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: getting all registered users and their lists

by IOhannes m zmoelnig

On 1/26/22 17:19, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 1/26/22 00:16, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: > > You can do this in mailman shell[...]> ``` > >>> from datetime import datetime > >>> um = getUtility(IUserManager) > >>> for usr in um.users: > ... if len(list(usr.memberships.members)) > 0: > ... continue > ... if usr.created_on < datetime(2022, 1, 1): > ... continue > ... adr = usr.addresses[0] > ... print(f'Name: {adr.display_name}, Email: {adr.email}, Created: > {usr.created_on}') > ... > ``` > perfect. that did the trick, thanks a lot. >> is there a scriptable way to get all users that have registered in my >> mailman3 (3.2.1) instance and which lists they are subscribed to (if >> any)? > > It's in Postorius >= 1.3.6 i'm not entirely sure how this relates to the above (working) snippet. is it, that with postorious>=1.3.6 i would be able to perform that task from the webinterface, rather than having to resort to 'mailman shell'? in any case, this might be related: before i received your email with the 'mailman shell' snippet, i scraped some bits of my django knowledge and visited <https://lists.example.com/admin> (the django admin interface), and noticed the list of users there. so i scraped that page for users (assuming that this was the list of registered users). then i get myself a list of all subscribers in my instance, using a crude `mailman lists | grep "@" | while read l; do mailman members "${l}"; done | sort -u`. finally i calculated the difference between the two sets. interestingly the results are quite different from the ones i got from your script: both sets contain users that are not in the other set. how come? gfmdras IOhannes

3 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] About the path forward [was: ... regarding message acceptance]

by Stephen J. Turnbull

I'm not Mark, but .... :-) "Plans", you ask? Hmm.... Pawel Grzywaczewski writes: > Any plans to implement message acceptance based on another list? I think that most Mailman 2.1 features are plausible proposals for Mailman 3. While we don't make decisions based on user voting, we do care about user requests. If you want to make a formal request, post a request for enhancement (ie, issue) on our GitLab issue tracker, and post a link here so other interested people can follow it. > What about adding list1 as member to list2? In Mailman 2.1 there > was an 'umbrella' feature I think it doesn't exist in Mailman3. > Any plans to add it? Same as above. I don't know Mark's plans, but he's been active on these lists. I myself hope to have some time for development later in the summer, but I've been away from the code for quite a while, and have at least two prior projects I've expressed interest in. I have no idea about Abhilash or Terri's time, except that they're always busy, and there are a couple of other developers who might drift back in at some point if something exciting starts happening. However, these kinds of additions described above are somewhat more complicated in Mailman 3 than they were in Mailman 2. We have added the ability to identify groups of lists as domains (and therefore have multiple lists by the same name if they are each in a different domain), and the ability to identify groups of email addresses as users. This means that there are more opportunities for unfortunate things to happen. For example, a user might have a particular address for posting to a particular list, and be unhappy if they were accidentally "unmasked" when they posted by a different address, and that post was accepted because those addresses are both owned by the same user. Whether you think this one is a "real problem" or not, we need to do more than a little thinking about such things as we improve Mailman. We missed the window for GSoC this year. We've had excellent success in getting students (I don't think we were ever denied a slot we asked for), so prospects for next year are good. I myself am looking at mandatory retirement in a couple of years, and am planning to ramp up development/consulting activity over this period. So I know a year is a long time, but we are actively supporting existing features, and intend to continue development for the foreseeable future. Finally, Brian Carpenter and EMWD are actively developing alternatives to Postorius and HyperKitty. (Affinity and Empathy, respectively; I believe Affinity is already in beta, Empathy I don't know about status). You can find out more about them in the Mailman Developers <mailman-developers(a)python.org> archives and in the archives of this list. These are independent friendly projects, not hostile forks. You may find them to provide more straightforward access to configurations you want, although they do depend on Mailman core for much "back office" functionality, and obviously they're less mature than Postorius and HyperKitty. But they have the advantage of targeting a much more mature Mailman core, so they'll catch up fast. EMWD hosts a lot of Mailman lists and hosts, so I for one would consider a request for features from Affinity developers to be representative of many list owners.[1] Footnotes: [1] Not to deprecate Empathy, but the relationship between core and any archiver is pretty much "arm's length". Archiver features are mostly independent of the core.

5 years

[MM3-users] Re: Filter who can send on mailman3 list?

by Mark Sapiro

On 4/5/21 6:43 AM, marcus.granath(a)gmail.com wrote: > > So what I basically try do achieve is to have only the following addresses to be allowed to send announcements (e-mails) on the mailman3 list, and all others that are member of the mailman3 list will just receive the e-mails. The usual "announcements" are sent out as the "no-reply" address (that actually are not really part of the mailman3 list) ;-) > > no-reply(a)abc.com ("fake address" that actually are not really part of the mailing-list) > peter(a)abc.com > david(a)abc.com > marcus(a)abc.com > > How to achieve this kind of filter with mailman3? Header filters is not the way to do this. First set both "Default action to take when a non-member posts to thelist" and "Default action to take when a member posts to the list" to either Hold for moderation or Discard (no notification). Reject is not recommended because of backscatter from spam posts with spoofed From: addresses. Then ensure all members Moderation Action is set to None or List Default (two names for the same thing). Now, no one can post. To allow your set of users to post, you have choices. The easy way but not secure against spoofing is to set the Maderation Action for the three allowed members to List Default and toi create a non-member for no-reply(a)abc.com and set it's moderation action to List Default. The more secure way is to leave everyone moderated, set a moderator password for the list and post with an Approved: header or pseudo header. See <https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/rules/docs…>. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: mail stuck in "out" queue

by Mark Sapiro

On 9/16/22 10:49, Dan Caballero wrote: > > We're seeing some messages having the .bak files in the out queue for up to 30, 40 or even 60 minutes. I've increased the number of in and out runners to 8 each. Is there a way to know which runner has which message? If the .bak files eventually go away, this is because the message has a large number of recipients and delivery to the MTA is slow. For the out runner, look in Mailman's smtp.log for messages of the form: <message-id> smtp to <list> for nn recips, completed in tt.ttt seconds to see how long it's taking. If it seems too long (even with full VERP, it should be at least 5 to 10 recips per second), there are things you can do in the MTA to speed processing. In particular, don't do recipient validation at incoming smtp time - possibly configure an alternate submission port for Mailman to use. It shouldn't be necessary to slice the in runner and it processes very quickly. To answer your question, queue entries have a name of the form <timestamp>+<hex hash> with a .pck or .bak extension. The entry is assigned to a particular runner based on the first bits of the hash. For 8 slices this is the first 3 bits of the hash, so if the first hex digit of the hash is 0 or 1, that out queue entry will be processed by the out:0:8 runner; if it's 2 or 3, that out queue entry will be processed by the out:1:8 runner and so on through e or f processed by the out:7:8 runner. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman 3 database restore unexpected behavior

by Mark Sapiro

On 3/28/23 04:00, Tibor Molnar wrote: > Mailman3 built from source using virtual environment. > Version: > GNU Mailman 3.3.8 (Tom Sawyer) > Python 3.9.2 (default, Feb 28 2021, 17:03:44) > [GCC 10.2.1 20210110] > config file: /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg > > Issue: > I have restored the database number of times recently and experienced that every time after restoration (an hour after) all members getting an email that they are unsubscribed due to bounces, however non of the users are actually unsubscribed from any lists. It looks like there are duplicates in database and all the duplicates are getting unsubscribed? > > Bounces message: > name(a)email.com unsubscribed from [listname] mailing list due to bounces That's an admin notice, not a notice to the user. > Only restoring two files: mailman3 and mailman3web > > Did anyone come acroos this behavior ? This seems sort of like <https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/…>, but it doesn't seem like that would be the issue here. > It is not right that after restoring a database all 1000 user get an email that they are unsubscribed, but they are actually not. > I may do something wrong during the restoring process. > Please advise me. The code that decides which users are to be removed is at <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/blob/master/src/mailman/model/member.p…> Somehow you must be restoring members whose delivery status is disabled by bounce and whose total_warnings_sent is >= the list's bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings. What do you get from this query on the mailman3 database SELECT email FROM member JOIN address ON address_id = address.id JOIN preferences ON member.preferences_id = preferences.id WHERE delivery_status = 3 AND total_warnings_sent > 0; -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Held messages not delivered after approval

by Stephen J. Turnbull

I see Mark answered some of the same questions already, but it would be really painstaking to avoid duplication (it took more than an hour to write this :-), so I'm just gonna scan it quickly and then send. Stephan Krinetzki writes: > My queues: (Omitting the empty ones.) > /opt/mailman/var/queue/out: > total 2868 > drwxrwx--- 2 mailman mailman 4096 Jul 31 13:26 . > drwxr-xr-x 14 mailman mailman 165 Jun 27 2024 .. > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 221708 Jul 30 13:16 1753874180.0845337+0cc7849043859a79dc3678a0d8b63c1c66df0c66.pck.tmp > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 733425 Jul 31 00:00 1753912841.8847518+da55f8789ae41b75d19a02b595e3fd6d45983ade.pck.tmp > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 17758 Jul 31 13:26 1753961185.0481033+6adf966467266567275f1146f5054c95e4365c13.pck Those two .pck.tmp files are bad news. They indicate that Mailman was trying to do something with those messages, and the process was interrupted. You should check whether there was a Mailman restart at those times (although it should shutdown gracefully and not leave .tmp files behind), or if a runner crashed. The .tmp files *may* be deliverable, but you'd have to look at them to be sure that they are complete. It's possible that they have been delivered already and the .tmp files just need to be removed. You can look at them with "mailman qfile" same as always, "qfile" doesn't check the filename extension. If they haven't been delivered and a careful check shows they're intact, just renaming without the .tmp will cause them to go to the head of the queue. It's also odd that the .pck above precedes the ,bak below (unless you have multiple slices for the out queue?) The rest of the queue looks normal, except that it seems rather long. I only see queues that long when the outgoing MTA is borked. (Although my experience with high-traffic systems is restricted to helping a couple of folks for whom there was zero cost to adding CPUs and memory to their VMs, I feel better that Mark picked up on this too.) You might want to reconfigure Mailman to use more out slices, but that depends on what else your MTA should be using its bandwidth for. Because of the way the slicing algorithm works, the number of slices needs to be a power of 2, so the number of simultaneous connections Mailman makes to the MTA will double. (I don't think there's any point to more than 4 slices unless you're doing more than one incoming post/second.) > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 31122 Jul 31 13:26 1753961185.1064982+b1f502e2af56b9b11680135c6de5fcc5285d967e.bak This .bak file is currently being processed by Mailman, it's normal. The rest of the .pck files are also normal, just waiting. (Omitting the rest of the out queue listing.) > /opt/mailman/var/queue/shunt: > total 3304 > drwxrwx--- 2 mailman mailman 4096 Jul 31 11:44 . > drwxr-xr-x 14 mailman mailman 165 Jun 27 2024 .. > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 451 Jul 31 00:00 1753912822.2651796+28eceef7e18eb70393377b88dc7117af8f9362a0.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 490 Jul 31 00:00 1753912838.4197352+ea531cf0262c1faa58b1679b907fee92bc16822c.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 1407870 Jul 31 00:00 1753912841.9177196+ccea15bdefce3a54301281c8eddf86e8230244a6.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 86108 Jul 31 00:00 1753912841.9197443+7dcef4febc71e44c6d9309a24a08b08753e1ff42.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 1407668 Jul 31 00:00 1753912841.9849963+a3f1869b750060c97262ece38737480d91652828.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 38992 Jul 31 00:01 1753912860.5167956+940584c4f361cbd8c29e390b2f60590558effe40.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 440 Jul 31 00:01 1753912860.6972685+635c065bac8dff5f9d562275d707001d773b84c1.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 445 Jul 31 00:01 1753912868.7903054+befa066f254d7a3529a8555a6c942a554715d837.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 33494 Jul 31 00:01 1753912878.7562895+82b724fd93260ab9a2bb49709d3a42a2f32f2c80.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 217073 Jul 31 00:01 1753912878.9337828+de73a65d9c6febfa80275853921f4b53fd1d9e2a.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 85888 Jul 31 00:02 1753912950.303359+8a87bce0be63ac1df8493c6b1ad6ae154fcedba7.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 50244 Jul 31 00:02 1753912950.4970112+d44d493912bb3024547b8a5112f86f035dcb352f.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 12887 Jul 31 00:02 1753912970.038427+31bcbd7fb2ebdf81f6de24b7283b50bcda6ded21.pck.tmp > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 443 Jul 31 11:44 1753955094.900898+67bc76525412da66a7c76363f65f583989716305.pck > > /opt/mailman/var/queue/virgin: > total 32 > drwxrwx--- 2 mailman mailman 81 Jul 31 13:17 . > drwxr-xr-x 14 mailman mailman 165 Jun 27 2024 .. > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 32013 Jan 11 2025 1736550035.6163204+472f81ece5e45a2651a4499bef418f611b43c619.pck.tmp > > Nothing special there (shunt should be checked, but not in > correlation with my mail). I tend to disagree, as the first series of shunt files ends with a .tmp. There's another one of those .tmp files in virgin, and it's 6 months old. Hmmm, that one is *also* on the hour. You got lots of cron jobs that run on the hour, maybe? You're probably right that there's no correlation, but you can't trust the dates from ls -l or stat because when running "mailman unshunt" all of the queue files in shunt will get "touched" if they're not sent. (If I recall correctly.) The fact that a spate of timestamps occur right at 00:00 means either there's a cron job running unshunt then, or you have a spammer or similar sending a bunch of broken mail to you on the hour. (I say you're probably right because the time stamp in the name decodes to the same time, and I don't think that changes when unshunt is run.) And again, you have a stale .tmp file there, which means something bad happened, most likely not under Mailman's control. There is (maybe was. by now?) a bug in the logging such that logs did not get properly rotated. Many sites dealt with this by restarting Mailman with the same period of the log rotation. Do you do that? (I'm just fishing, I don't know how it could cause the main issue you are seeing.) > mailq is empty, so my postfix works as expected. Hm. Those "high traffic" sites I mentioned, it was the other way around: with 4 (or 8) "out" slices, the out queue would be clear >80% of the time (according to "while 1; do ls -l $OUTQUEUE; sleep 5; done", nothing sophisticated). But the MTA's mail queue would typically backlog many minutes. As I said, the Mailman hosts at those sites were insanely overpowered, so your mileage will vary. I have to think that there is a problem in the handoff between Mailman and the MTA. Why Mailman is not preserving the queuefile or alternatively logging a successful delivery to the MTA I don't have any idea off hand. I have to think the queue runner is crashing, but that doesn't explain why this happens only to certain lists. Is Postfix delivering to the final destination itself, or does it pass on the messages to a smarthost? Is Mailman talking to the local MTA, or is it possibly talking to an MTA on a different node? I did have to diagnose a problem once where a system was misconfigured, and Mailman was talking not to the local Postfix but to a Postfix in a datacenter a megameter or so away! (That didn't lose any mail, but the connection would occasionally freeze and not time out, leading to a huge build up in the out queue.) Anyway, if Mailman isn't talking to an MTA with a <50ms ping time, you could try changing the configuration so it does. I don't put much stock in any of the above ideas. I hope that you or somebody come up with better ones! -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan

2 days, 5 hours

[MM3-users] Re: Help with some 'withlist' configuration changes

by David Partain

Hi! Thank you, Mark, for giving me something to go on! I'll dig further. Cheers, David On Wed, 2021-06-23 at 06:59 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: On 6/23/21 6:30 AM, David Partain via Mailman-users wrote: Hi, Firstly, a repeat that I have a relatively broken (and soon to be fixed, I hope) installation of mailman3 based on Ubuntu 18.04 distrib packages (3.1.1-9) that stumbles along by me dealing with a bunch of things by hand that I hope'll go away once I'm up to the current version. In this set-up, I get a fair number of items shunted. Since I have this wonky version where stuff isn't always exposed in the web interface, I have to fix these things by hand. An example is that something gets shunted because of too many recipients, where I do: sudo -u list mailman withlist somemailmanlist m.max_num_recipients = 0 commit() sudo -u list mailman unshunt I've managed to find a number of these, such as m.max_message_size, m.require_explicit_destination, and m.administrivia. There is some other issue here as these things should only cause a message to be held, not shunted. Some exception is being thrown in the process of holding the messgage, and thaty is the real issue. What are the tracebacks in Mailman's mailman.log for these shunts? My questions are undoubtedly foolish, but here goes: 1. Is there any way to print the entire 'm' structure? If so, I'd perhaps be able to figure out the answers to my other questions. dir(m) or maybe you want >>> for x in dir(m): ... if not x.startswith('_'): ... print(f'{x}: {m.__getattribute__(x)}') ... 2. Is there a way for me to correct the following shunt-ing issues with 'withlist'? I've been unable to figure out how... a. 'moderation_reasons': [ 'Message has no subject'] / 'rule_hits': ['no-subject'] b. Some things get caught as 'rule_hits': ['nonmember-moderation']. However, if I look in the (web-based) config, it shows that non-members should be accepted but the messages are shunted nonetheless. I don't know what to look for in 'm' or how I might clear these messages. As I note above, these things are reasons to hold the message. The shunting occurs because something is going wrong in the holding process. Find the errors and tracebacks in Mailman's mailman.log to see what the real issue might be. 3. I have no idea what these are telling me to do about digest messages. Suggestions? This is the entire info I get from 'mailman qfile': ------------------------------------------------------snip snip---------------------------------------------- [----- start pickle -----] <----- start object 1 -----> <----- start object 2 -----> { '_parsemsg': False, 'digest_number': 457, 'digest_path': '/var/lib/mailman3/lists/somelist/digest.31.457.mmdf', 'lang': 'en', 'listid': 'somelistid', 'version': 3, 'volume': 31, 'whichq': 'digest'} [----- end pickle -----] ------------------------------------------------------snip snip---------------------------------------------- That is telling you there was in issue in sending the digest, the mailbox for which is /var/lib/mailman3/lists/somelist/digest.31.457.mmdf. Unshunting that will retry sending that digest. 4. I have some that have 'rule_hits': [] (it's empty) but are shunted nonetheless. I can't see anything weird other than one of the messages has a utf-8 subject. Any ideas? 5. Some messages that were sent to -request addresses (e.g., subscribe messages, confirm, approve messages) are being shunted. What should I do with these? You need to find the errors in the log and figure out what the underlying issue is. I'm guessing it's a permissions issue, possibly because of having at one time rum `mailman start` as root causing files to be created and owned by root and not be readable/writable by the Mailman user.

4 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Creating superuser - problem with documentation or it's just me?

by Mark Sapiro

On 7/26/20 9:39 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > Hi, > > In my quest to create a superuser, I followed another HOWTO - > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/devsetup.html > > (venv) [root@gw /opt/mailman/git/mailman-suite/mailman-suite_project]# > python manage.py migrate > Traceback (most recent call last): manage.py migrate (or django-admin migrate) is part if the mailman-post-update script. It doesn't work here because when you run it this way, it doesn't get your settings.py. > ModuleNotFoundError: No module named '_sqlite3' And it's looking for sqlite3 because that's the default database. > *<==============================================================* > (venv) [root@gw /opt/mailman/git/mailman-suite/mailman-suite_project]# pip > install pysqlite3 You don't need this. You need to run django-admin with the correct settings. > So I figured out that I need to put my own settings_local.py into the > directory and let the command rely on MySQL as the database backend since > by default, it uses sqlite3 backend. > > But the question then is WHY is this not documented on the above page??? Because that's not relevant to what you are doing. You are trying to install Mailman for production, not development. > How can I delete the superuser after creating it?? The only django-admin or manage.py you should run is /opt/mailman/mm/bin/djhango-admin. You can run `django-admin createsuperuser` to create a superuser. If you want to delete one, you need to go to the Django admin web UI - should be http://your.server/admin - login as a superuser and go to the Users page and delete it. You should probably do this as a different superuser -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years

[MM3-users] Re: My Server is unable to connect to Mailman REST API few times

by Shashikanth Komandoor

Thank you Mark a lot. It worked awesome. You don't know how much you helped me. Thank you once again. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 8:56 PM Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > On 9/19/20 4:32 AM, Shashikanth Komandoor wrote: > > > > But I am trying to delete a list on an urgent basis. Because of which I > am > > getting the above said errors. I tried to delete > > through the interface, through curl command and through "mailman shell" > but > > nothing led me to a > > positive result. Is there any work around to delete the list ? > > What have you tried in Mailman shell? This should do it. > > $ mailman shell -l list.example.com > Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell > Use commit() to commit changes. > Use abort() to discard changes since the last commit. > Exit with ctrl+D does an implicit commit() but exit() does not. > The variable 'm' is the list.example.com mailing list > >>> getUtility(IListManager).delete(m) > >>> commit() > > So should just > > $ mailman remove list.example.com > > What happens if you do those? > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- Thanks & Regards, Shashi Kanth.K 9052671936

4 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Link to account

by Mark Sapiro

On 4/11/23 12:04, Lars Bjørndal wrote: > Thanks a lot. Maybe I've done a mistake, it doesn.t work. > > At the bottom of /etc/mailman3/settings.py I have: > > ROOT_URLCONF = 'urls' > > `cat /etc/mailman3/urls.py` > > [...] > > urlpatterns = [ > path( > '', > RedirectView.as_view(url=reverse_lazy('list_index'), permanent=True), > ), > path('lists/mailman3/', include('postorius.urls')), > path('lists/archives/', include('hyperkitty.urls')), > path('lists/', include('django_mailman3.urls')), > path('lists/accounts/', include('allauth.urls')), > path('lists/admin/', admin.site.urls), > ] > > In Apache config for the domain, I now have: > > <IfModule mod_proxy.c> > ProxyPreserveHost On > ProxyPass "lists/mailman3" "http://127.0.0.1:8000/lists/mailman3" > ProxyPass "lists/archives" "http://127.0.0.1:8000/lists/archives" > ProxyPass "lists/accounts" "http://127.0.0.1:8000/lists/accounts" > ProxyPass "lists/admin" "http://127.0.0.1:8000/lists/admin" > ProxyPass "lists/user-profile" "http://127.0.0.1:8000/lists/user-profile" > </IfModule> > > Restarted mailmanweb, httpd and mailman3. > > If I go to list.punktskriftutvalget.no/mailman3/, I get a 404 Not Found response in browser. > > So what's wrong, do you think? You followed https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/… literally. The literal instructions where to access everything via URLs like https://mydomain.org/lists/.... If you were to replace `lists` with `mailman3` everywhere in the abpve, you would then access HyperKitty via a URL like https://list.punktskriftutvalget.no/mailman3/archives/ and Postorius via https://list.punktskriftutvalget.no/mailman3/mailman3/ If that's not what you want, it's more complicated and some things might not be possible. What exactly do you want for access to Postorius, HyperKitty, user accounts, user profiles and the Django admin UI? -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: How to prevent members to attach executables (exe, bat, ...) to the emails sent to list

by Mark Sapiro

On 10/1/20 3:23 PM, Mohsen Masoudfar wrote: > Hi Mark, > Thanks again for the helpful hint. It seems that I still miss something. I am running Mailman3.1.1. I ran the following on my test server. > I am trying, for test purpose only, to filter PDF attachments. > > First I just used the pass_type, assuming once this is set, everything else is filtered. That's how it should work. > # mailman withlist testlist3(a)x.com >>>> m.pass_types = ['multipart', 'message/rfc822', 'text', 'application/pgp-signature'] >>>> commit() >>>> print(list(m.pass_types)) > ['multipart', 'message/rfc822', 'text', 'application/pgp-signature'] > > This let PDF be send by Mailman3. Well, I need to add filter_types too, so I did this: It shouldn't unless athe Content-Type: of the PDF part was text/* or application/pgp-signature >>>> m.filter_types = ['application/pdf'] >>>> commit() >>>> print(list(m.filter_types)) > ['application/pdf'] This should allow ONLY the PDF and nothing else, not even the text/* message body parts. > Mailman3 still distributes PDF files as attachment. What am I doing wrong? > > This is the final settings: > >>>> print(list(m.pass_types)) > ['multipart', 'message/rfc822', 'text', 'application/pgp-signature'] >>>> print(list(m.filter_types)) > ['application/pdf'] This is wrong. set m.filter_types =[] Look at the raw message you receive from the list. What is the VConten-Type of the PDF part? Actually, what's m.filter_content? I suspect it's False which means don't do any content filtering. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: mailman-web: ResponseNotReady

by Abhilash Raj

Hi, $ docker-compose rm -f mailman-web $ docker-compose up -d mailman-web This will basically create a new container for Mailman-web, but, since the state of mailman-web is stored completely in database (database container), I am not sure how to reset *just* mailman-web without dropping mailman-core related tables too (they share the same database but have their own separate tables). The above command will get you a fresh copy of code running. You can potentially get the list of tables and drop them, or maybe Diango has some way to reset it's state from Django shell (python manage.py shell, from inside mailman-web will get you shell). I may have to look it up. Also, just by looking at the traceback, I am not sure about the exact error. I may have to debug more to arrive at a better conclusion, which I won't able to do until after this weekend. Thanks, Abhilash On October 18, 2017 1:27:21 PM PDT, Dmitry Makovey <dmakovey(a)stanford.edu> wrote: >On 10/18/2017 12:28 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> On 10/18/2017 09:00 AM, Dmitry Makovey wrote: >>> >>> It seems like mailman-core is still operating properly, but for some >>> reason mailman-web is not. Can I reset mailman-web somehow to >re-initiate? >> >> >> I'm not very well versed in the docker images, but I think >mailman-web >> uses uWsgi and sending the uwsgi process a SIGHUP should do it. > >I think I didn't express myself clearly - I want to reset any saved >state for mailman-web - not just in-memory stuff. I've restarted my >setup several times with mailman-web having exact same problem every >time. > >-- >Sr System and DevOps Engineer SoM IRT -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

7 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] postfix malformed address with confirm replies

by Stephen Willey Mats Mats

I’m getting bounces back from postfix (553 5.1.3 Error: malformed address) for my confirm replies. I found a similar issue in this lists’ archives back in 2017 but that issue was supposedly fixed in version 3.2 I’m running the current docker containers. I’m pretty sure I have all of the mailman settings in postix: " # Support the default VERP delimiter. recipient_delimiter = + unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550 owner_request_special = no transport_maps = regexp:/opt/mailman/core/var/data/postfix_lmtp local_recipient_maps = regexp:/opt/mailman/core/var/data/postfix_lmtp relay_domains = regexp:/opt/mailman/core/var/data/postfix_domains " the entries in /opt/mailman/core/var/data/postfix_lmtp look like they should match /^matsmats-mm3-test1(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-bounces(\+.*)?(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-confirm(\+.*)?(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-join(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-leave(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-owner(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-request(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-subscribe(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-unsubscribe(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 thanks, steve > On Feb 26, 2021, at 14:08:54 PST, Mail Delivery System <MAILER-DAEMON(a)ip-172-31-18-222.us-west-2.compute.internal> wrote: > > This is the mail system at host ip-172-31-18-222.us-west-2.compute.internal. > > I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not > be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. > > For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. > > If you do so, please include this problem report. You can > delete your own text from the attached returned message. > > The mail system > > <matsmats-mm3-test1-confirm+d6f77a2572ef55a8b2c4ca0d77de8493fbb55856(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu>: > host 172.19.199.2[172.19.199.2] said: 553 5.1.3 Error: malformed address > (in reply to RCPT TO command) > Reporting-MTA: dns; ip-172-31-18-222.us-west-2.compute.internal > X-Postfix-Queue-ID: E144B8BC3C5 > X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; stephen.s.w.matsmats(a)gmail.com > Arrival-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 14:08:54 -0800 (PST) > > Final-Recipient: rfc822; matsmats-mm3-test1-confirm+d6f77a2572ef55a8b2c4ca0d77de8493fbb55856(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu > Original-Recipient: rfc822;matsmats-mm3-test1-confirm+d6f77a2572ef55a8b2c4ca0d77de8493fbb55856(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.3 > Remote-MTA: dns; 172.19.199.2 > Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 553 5.1.3 Error: malformed address > > From: Steve Mats Mats <willey(a)selby.com> > Subject: Re: Your confirmation is needed to join the matsmats-mm3-test1(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu mailing list. > Date: February 26, 2021 at 2:08:52 PM PST > To: matsmats-mm3-test1-confirm+d6f77a2572ef55a8b2c4ca0d77de8493fbb55856(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu > > > > >> On Feb 26, 2021, at 11:41:54 PST, matsmats-mm3-test1-confirm+d6f77a2572ef55a8b2c4ca0d77de8493fbb55856(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu wrote: >> >> Email Address Registration Confirmation >> >> Hello, this is the GNU Mailman server at mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu. >> >> We have received a registration request for the email address >> >> willey(a)teamd.org >> >> Before you can start using GNU Mailman at this site, you must first confirm >> that this is your email address. You can do this by replying to this message. >> >> Or you should include the following line -- and only the following >> line -- in a message to matsmats-mm3-test1-request(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu: >> >> confirm d6f77a2572ef55a8b2c4ca0d77de8493fbb55856 >> >> Note that simply sending a `reply' to this message should work from >> most mail readers. >> >> If you do not wish to register this email address, simply disregard this >> message. If you think you are being maliciously subscribed to the list, or >> have any other questions, you may contact >> >> matsmats-mm3-test1-owner(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu > > >

4 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: List rename

by Joel Lord

Well, I've got a developer who has managed to figure out how to rename a list with a set of 3 SQL updates, then updating a few settings via the API. We've beaten the heck out of this at this point with a test list, I'm going to be actually renaming the lists in question tomorrow. Here's some kinda code-ish stuff that you can adapt, it's shell first, python, then more shell: update mailinglist set list_name = '${newname}', list_id = '${newname }.${domain}' where list_id = '${oldname}.${domain}'; update member set list_id = '${newname}.${domain}' where list_id = '${oldname}.${domain}'; update address set email = '${newname}-owner@${domain}' w here email = '${oldname}-owner@${domain}'; settings = dict( acceptable_aliases=['%s@domain' % oldname], display_name="%s" % newname, reply_to_address="%s@domain" % newname, reply_goes_to_list="explicit_header", require_explicit_destination=True, subject_prefix="[%s]" % newname) mv ${listsbase}/${oldname}.${domain} ${listsbase}/${newname}.${domain} mv ${templates}/${oldname}.${domain} ${templates}/${newname}.${domain} # rebuild aliases and virtual maps now I'd been kind of hoping for at least a way to extract the entire list config and subscriber list, then stuff those back in to a different list after a bit of massaging to change the name. Beefing up the command line ecosystem would be extremely useful, particularly for those of us who have been using MM2 forever. Also, just figuring out where things like call_http and dump_json were took my top developer over an hour and he had to resort to a bunch of 'grep -r's to do it. I'd tried and failed at that point, but I was figuring dump_json was some generic python module that we needed to install, rather than being part of MM3. So just adding the appropriate set of imports to the mailman shell documentation pages would really help and shouldn't be all that much of a time investment for anyone who actually knows the answers. Thanks for keeping this project going. I'm horrified that I might some day have to move the lists that I manage out to something like Google Groups with Google's prediliction for deciding they know better than the RFCs. On 10/5/2019 12:05 PM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > On Wed, Sep 25, 2019, at 9:04 AM, Joel Lord wrote: >> I'm in an odd situation where I need to rename a bunch of lists. They >> were all created on mailman2 originally and migrated to mailman3 (very >> successfully, TYVM) but the names were all originally >> discuss-<foo>@domain and it's very confusing to be sure you're always >> sending to the correct <foo>. We want to completely rename the lists to >> <foo>-discuss@domain. >> >> These lists do not keep archives, so if I have to resort to extracting >> the subscriber lists and the configs and building new lists, I'm >> completely fine with that. Problem is, I'm really used to MM2 and >> config_list and could do this without thinking using those tools... that >> I don't have. >> >> Running MM3 3.2.2 trying to make this happen. Any assistance I could >> get will be greatly appreciated. > > There isn't any way yet that allows renaming a list, not sure how hard would that be to achieve that. > > In theory, it should be easy since most places should be using list-id (which wouldn't change if you were to rename a list, as the RFC2919 says), but there might be a few places which are still using the posting-address as the identifier and might need change. > > I wouldn't mind a command or an API to modify the list's posting address. > >> >> THANKS! >> -- Joel Lord

5 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: using SSH/TLS with external MTA

by Mark Sapiro

On 7/28/24 06:26, Roland Giesler via Mailman-users wrote: > On 2024/07/28 00:39, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >> What do you see in Mailman's smtp.log and in the mail.log on the mail >> server? > > The smtp log is in syslog... The smtp.log I refer to is Mailman's smtp.log which is in Mailman's var/logs/ directory. > I think I see what's going on here. The mail is being sent from > postorius(a)giesler.za.net and there is no log entry on > box2.gtahardware.co.za that shows this logon attempt. So it seems it's > not going to that server, but rather to the local postfix. > > A mail was sent to root on the localhost with the following content: > > Return-Path: <root(a)giesler.za.net> > X-Original-To: root@localhost > Delivered-To: root@localhost > Received: from mailman.fast.za.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) > by mailman.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2174A120A5B > for <root@localhost>; Sun, 28 Jul 2024 13:11:03 +0000 (UTC) > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Subject: [Django] ERROR (EXTERNAL IP): Internal Server Error: > /accounts/login/ > From: root(a)giesler.za.net > To: root@localhost > Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2024 13:11:03 -0000 > Message-ID: <172217226313.2150.10895652368679013629(a)mailman.fast.za.net> > > Internal Server Error: /accounts/login/ > > SMTPRecipientsRefused at /accounts/login/ > {'roland(a)giesler.za.net': (454, b'4.7.1 <roland(a)giesler.za.net>: Relay > acce= > ss denied')} This is mail from django-allauth, not from Mailman. Your settings in mailman.cfg do not affect how this mail is sent. See https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/5.0/topics/email/#smtp-backend for the Django settings for this. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

1 year

[MM3-users] Re: How To Install Mailman 3 on Debian 10 (Complete Guide)

by Lars Schimmer

On 27/02/2021 04:02, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Lars Schimmer writes: > > > Hm, it completely ignores the standard way for Debian: > > apt-get install mailman3-full > > also exim4 as standard mailer. > > And apache2. > > Right. The idea is that Debian is a *component* of *Brian's* system, > not that Brian is installing a Debian system. One problem is that a > lot of people like to run Debian Stable, which lags our releases by > many months, sometimes a couple of years. A lot of people run a > Debian Stable system plus a couple of mission-critical apps from > source or from upstream repositories. Maybe the debian packages are old because people do not care about and use always upstream because debian packages are old? I do know lots of software projects with recent debian packages for stable, testing and unstable. Esp. in the wide use of debian based systems all over the internet. One reason to run those system is the easyness in install and the stable function of its component. Not to need to install all software from upstream because no one cares about a recent package. > It's not necessary to "keep up" to be very helpful to our users, of > course. But I think Brian's document is likely to be the "gold > standard" for a while. I understand why Abhilash wants it in the > official docs. :-) If it should be a gold standard, it should mention the default setup of a standard debian system (which is exim4, btw) and not assuming a special setup debian system. > Steve > MfG, Lars Schimmer -- ------------------------------------------------------------- TU Graz, Institut für ComputerGraphik & WissensVisualisierung Tel: +43 316 873-5405 E-Mail: l.schimmer(a)cgv.tugraz.at Fax: +43 316 873-5402 PGP-Key-ID: 0x4A9B1723

4 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Question after upgrade to mm 3.2.3 and latest postorius

by Abhilash Raj

On Sun, Aug 11, 2019, at 2:49 PM, David Krantz wrote: > Thank you for your quick reply! Comments below. > > On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 10:03 PM Abhilash Raj <maxking(a)asynchronous.in> wrote: > > I would recommend that you bump up to 3.7 for the web part too, mostly because 3.5 is now has been in security maintenance state for a while. We will drop support for 3.5 after this next release (so you do have some time :), but I fear there *could* potentially be other dependent libraries who might have dropped 3.5 support. > > > > Even though we do run CI and we'd (hopefully) know when there is a dependent library seriously breaking, but since we don't pin down versions, newer releases can cause problems. > > > > The web-server plugin I assume is mod_wsgi? > > Good information. Of course it is mod_wsgi. > > > If you use a separate wsgi server than the one embedded in web-server, you can bump versions a bit more easily. gunicorn or uwsgi are recommended options. Do note that the new version of Mailman Core also uses gunicorn now. > > That might be simpler although I probably still will have to use > apache as passthrough as there are other things on that server using > port 443 (80) and yet another server running is not what I'd like even > if wsgi is a server process anyway as I understand it. I'll consider > that and change it. Right, using a webserver for passthrough (and, serving static content) is actually recommended practice since they are more battle tested for security + load than wsgi servers. We use gunicorn + nginx for running this very list. > > > 1. The index page with all lists is not sorted in any useful way > > > although it is based on something as the order seems to be stable. > > > Prior to the upgrade the lists were sorted in alphabetical order after > > > list name which is a lot more usable for me as admin. If I click the > > > link at the bottom with "click to view all lists" I get the old > > > behaviour. > > > > This change was made so that you will see only the lists you are a member of either as a subscriber, moderator or owner. This is default when you are logged-in, but when logged-out, you will see the old view with all lists alphabetically sorted. > > That is very good. It still is strange that this view is not sorted. Noted, thanks! https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/issues/379 > > > Are you sure the migrations are there? I can see the following list on the latest git master of Postorius (all the ones after 0004_ are related to emailtemplate): > > I thought so, but it seems as if they are not. That said I have not > used django for anything else. After setting up the > django-admin-script and modifying a few paths I got it to work > correctly. The run I had made did not work although it also failed > silently. Had I been used to django I'd known that it should print > "OK" and ticked boxes for performed migrations, but I just use django > for mailman-things. I would love to have some more time and sort out some minor annoyances with Django :( This might be a great opportunity for someone with Django experience to help make it easier, I have some ideas there which should already be in the issue tracker. -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

5 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: How to identify the exact reason behind the shunting of the mails ?

by Shashikanth Komandoor

Thank you Mark, Then I will try to upgrade the version Thank you once again. On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 8:01 PM Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > On 6/18/21 6:48 AM, Shashikanth Komandoor wrote: > > Dear Mark, > > > > FYI, I observed this issue with the postfix that receives the > > mails from the previous MTA and hands it over to the mailman. But I fixed > > at postfix by upgrading it to the version postfix 3. > > > > But still Mailman is not able to understand Hindi (Indian > local > > language) in which language the display names of the email ids are there. > > > > So, now what to do at Mailman so that it can also understand > > local languages or any work around or other alternate solutions for these > > sort of cases. > > > As noted in my reply at > > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… > the issue is a Mailman bug which is fixed in the next release. It has to > do with the fact that the display names are RFC 2047 encoded and not the > particular encoding. > > Actually, the fix at > https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/merge_requests/841 depends on > https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/merge_requests/652 which was > released in Mailman 3.3.2. A complete patch for versions < 3.3.2 is > attached. > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- Thanks & Regards, Shashi Kanth.K 9052671936

4 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Can't send emails to list users

by Rob Passalacqua

Hey Steve! Thanks for the reply. I've discovered more things that will be helpful. The users that were getting the emails were owners or list moderators of the list. The graduates list has ~2500 list members and 4 owners, which is why that one says 4 recipients. We changed nothing before it stopped working, but I discovered about an hour ago that if we change the 'default-owner-pipeline' to 'default-mailing-pipeline' in the list setting then all members start receiving the emails. This leads me to believe that there is some sort of corruption or erroneous behavior with that particular pipeline and I do not know why. now, to answer your questions: How many people are on each of the lists which exhibit this problem? we have 5 lists, 4 with ~2500 members and one with 16. all lists have the same pipeline issue. Have you checked for unsubscriptions or disabled subscriptions? Yes. All members are properly subscribed and there are no requests to approve. Are you sure all subscribed addresses have been validated by the subscribers? We don't check for that. All members get the emails if they are in the list, and we have a script that adds members and subscribes them that works well. How do you know only 3 recipients are getting the emails? because, for the test email list, the logs and the recipients showed that only 3 of the people on the list (who turned out to be the owners and/or moderators) were getting the emails. Is it the same person every time? no Is it the poster themself? no Is it a person who is also an explicit addressee yes Are they on multiple lists and only receiving one copy? no and no. if it works, they get every email we are using Microsoft exchange services, so the google thing isnt an issue.

1 year, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: List creation error

by Odhiambo Washington

On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 21:17, Brian Carpenter <brian_carpenter(a)emwd.com> wrote: > Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 15:36, Andreas Barth aba(a)ayous.org wrote: > > > > > > Odhiambo Washington (odhiambo(a)gmail.com) [210106 12:12]:PS: I could > probably have caused the error with some weird operation I > > > did: > > > Initially when postorius comes up, it has the domain - example.com > > > http://example.com. I am not sure > > > where it gets this. > > > > > > > > > example.com is the default domain from django. Renaming that via the > > > django (e.g. mailman3/admin/sites/site/1/change/ ) worked for me quite > > > well (without touching anything in the database by hand). > > > Hi Andi, > > I could be missing something still... > > > > At what juncture during the installation do you do this renaming? > > Where is this directory? On my setup, I have no such directory - but I > > could be missing something in the install process, maybe.. > > > > root@debian10:/opt/mailman# pwd > > /opt/mailmanroot@debian10:/opt/mailman# find . -type d -name sites > > > ./mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/jedi/third_party/django-stubs/django-stubs/contrib/sites > > ./mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/django/contrib/sites > > Do you find anything amiss with this HOWTO - > > https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Howto_Install_Mailman3_On_Debian10 ?? I > > find > > the guide rather straight and clear. > > That is my work in progress and thank you for the compliment. > > It's the one I am following - almost to the letter - except for the fact > > that I am using Apache+mod_wsgi+MySQL+Exim instead. > > I have configs in place by the time I run 'mailman info' portion. But > then > > again, when I run this command, I don't like what it prints because I see > > some reference to sqlite. > > Can you paste what the mailman info output is and the contents of your > mailman.cfg file? > My mailman.cfg file is below: [mailman] site_owner: odhiambo(a)gmail.com layout: here [paths.here] var_dir: /opt/mailman/mm/var [database] class: mailman.database.mysql.MySQLDatabase url: mysql+pymysql://mailman3:XXXXXXX@localhost /mailmansuite?charset=utf8&use_unicode=1 [archiver.hyperkitty] class: mailman_hyperkitty.Archiver enable: yes configuration: /opt/mailman/mm/mailman-hyperkitty.cfg [archiver.prototype] enable: yes [shell] history_file: $var_dir/history.py [mta] verp_confirmations: yes verp_personalized_deliveries: yes verp_delivery_interval: 1 incoming: mailman.mta.exim4.LMTP outgoing: mailman.mta.deliver.deliver lmtp_host: localhost smtp_host: localhost lmtp_port: 8024 smtp_port: 25 configuration: python:mailman.config.exim4 [shell] use_ipython: yes The output of `mailman info` is: mailman@debian10:~$ python3 -m venv /opt/mailman/mm/venv mailman@debian10:~$ source /opt/mailman/mm/venv/bin/activate (venv) mailman@debian10:~$ mailman info GNU Mailman 3.3.2 (Tom Sawyer) Python 3.7.3 (default, Jul 25 2020, 13:03:44) [GCC 8.3.0] config file: /opt/mailman/var/etc/mailman.cfg db url: sqlite:////opt/mailman/var/data/mailman.db *<=== I wonder why it's even referring to sqlite...* devmode: DISABLED REST root url: http://localhost:8001/3.1/ REST credentials: restadmin:restpass > > As it is, I believe my problem lies elsewhere, not possible to solve with > > your rename option. > > To get rid of example.com, I log into Django, create a new site using the > main list domain and note the site id. I then edit the settings_local.py > file and change the SITE_ID setting to the new site id of the main list > domain. You will need to restart mailman and qcluster I believe after > making that change. > I hope you will document this additional step of how to get rid of example.com. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", grep ^[^#] :-)

4 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Bug in email.generator:_handle_text? [was: store/export existing Mailman lists ...]

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Oops, premature send. I did grep through the whole mailman core code base for "del", and didn't come up with anything that looks like it would delete fields like Content-Type and Message-ID (assuming the default for anonymous_list_keep_headers, I wish I had thought to ask about that, but who changes it?) I assumed Content-Type is modified by direct assignment in handlers that delete parts or transform them to a different MIME type. I wonder if his Python is old enough to not recognize negated regexps? That should be logged in errors. Or (as you guessed), the '(?!x-)' regexp (or the whole content of anonymous_list_keep_headers) has been removed? Stephen J. Turnbull writes: > Mark Sapiro writes: > > > This apparently confuses the Python email package so that the > > get_payload() method returns a list of strings rather than a list of > > message objects. > > Yes, I got that far too. I'm guessing that in the absence of a > Content-Type, which then *should* default to text/plain, the email > package goes ahead and detects the MIME headers anyway (although I > don't think it should do that) and breaks the message into MIME > parts. I would think we'd raise an Exception here. > > If there's a reason for the email package to do that detection > (*shrug*, it seems to work), then the dispatching in _handle_text > should be done on the Python type rather than the MIME Content-Type. > > I forget exactly how the code is structured, the relevant dispatching > may be in _dispatch or in _dispatch_meth. > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ >

2 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Trouble Installing Mailman3

by Henry Hartley

> -----Original Message----- > From: Stephen J. Turnbull <steve(a)turnbull.jp> > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2025 08:17 > Subject: [MM3-users] Re: Trouble Installing Mailman3 > > Henry Hartley via Mailman-users writes: > > > This isn't doing a lot for my self-esteem. > > I don't think you need to worry about you. :-) There are dozens of moving parts > involved, each of which sets its own requirements and is continuously being > updated. And you're working in a virtual environment, which is a fragile hack. > Works well if you treat it right, but does need care. Thanks for your encouraging words. > There are two ways those two messages can be consistent: that pip's version > number parsing is buggy, or those aren't the same pip. The former explanation, > while possible, is highly unlikely. > > One common explanation for this kind of conflict is that you did part of the > installation with the venv active, and part without. I know you wrote that you > are "running as the mailman user in venv", but just to double check, does "in" > mean "current working directory is venv" or does it mean "venv is activated > with '. bin/activate'" as well? You need to activate the venv to get all of the > paths (especially to the "pip" and "python" commands) right. Here's what I mean when I say I'm doing this "in venv" I've become the mailman user: sudo su - mailman The .bashrc for that user includes: source /opt/mailman/venv/bin/activate The prompt has (venv) at the left end of it: (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ All pip commands have been run in this state. I did first install setuptools with apt install python3-setuptools and that installed version 68.1.2-2ubuntu1.2. Note that I'm still not sure the firewall is completely out of the picture, since I do have to include the --trusted-host and --proxy options. Some things install, though, so I think that's OK. When I do this at the (venv) prompt, asking to install both setuptools and mailman-web: pip install --proxy http://webproxyta.westat.com:3128 --trusted-host pypi.org setuptools mailman-web The first line of the output is: Requirement already satisfied: setuptools in ./venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages (80.9.0) And that's followed by downloading (or using a cached version) of 11 items before I get the subprocess error. > I took a look at a fairly recent install of django-haystack, and in the .dist-info it > says the installer is 'pip' rather than 'pip3'. IMO this is bad practice, even today. > One possible explanation is that somehow at an intermediate stage the install > script is picking up a Python 2 pip, and IIRC Python 2 setuptools goes only to > 58.x or 59.x. > Or if you're in a Debian environment, I seem to recall the Debian Python 3 > environment does not provide setuptools at all (and deliberately makes it hard > to install outside of a venv). > > Check if your venv bin directory has a pip executable (or symlink to the > executable). If not, adding a symlink pip -> pip3 may help. There is no Python2 on the system so I'm pretty sure it's not that. The pip being used seems to be the right one and pip and pip3 seem to be the same: (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ pwd /opt/mailman (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ which pip /opt/mailman/venv/bin/pip (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ which pip3 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/pip3 (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ pip -V pip 24.0 from /opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/pip (python 3.12) (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ pip3 -V pip 24.0 from /opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/pip (python 3.12) (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ cmp venv/bin/pip venv/bin/pip3 (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ pip cache purge Files removed: 44 (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ /opt/mailman/venv/bin/pip install --proxy http://webproxyta.westat.com:3128 --trusted-host pypi.org setuptools mailman-web Requirement already satisfied: setuptools in ./venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages (80.9.0) Collecting mailman-web Downloading mailman_web-0.0.9-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (3.2 kB) Collecting django<4.3,>=4.0 (from mailman-web) Downloading django-4.2.23-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (4.2 kB) Collecting hyperkitty (from mailman-web) Downloading hyperkitty-1.3.12-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (3.6 kB) Collecting postorius (from mailman-web) Downloading postorius-1.3.13-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (2.9 kB) Collecting whoosh (from mailman-web) Downloading Whoosh-2.7.4-py2.py3-none-any.whl.metadata (3.1 kB) Collecting asgiref<4,>=3.6.0 (from django<4.3,>=4.0->mailman-web) Downloading asgiref-3.8.1-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (9.3 kB) Collecting sqlparse>=0.3.1 (from django<4.3,>=4.0->mailman-web) Downloading sqlparse-0.5.3-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (3.9 kB) Collecting django-compressor>=1.3 (from hyperkitty->mailman-web) Downloading django_compressor-4.5.1-py2.py3-none-any.whl.metadata (5.0 kB) Collecting django-extensions>=1.3.7 (from hyperkitty->mailman-web) Downloading django_extensions-4.1-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (6.1 kB) Collecting django-gravatar2>=1.0.6 (from hyperkitty->mailman-web) Downloading django_gravatar2-1.4.5-py2.py3-none-any.whl.metadata (4.3 kB) Collecting django-haystack>=2.8.0 (from hyperkitty->mailman-web) Downloading django_haystack-3.3.0.tar.gz (467 kB) ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━ 467.3/467.3 kB 22.3 MB/s eta 0:00:00 Installing build dependencies ... error error: subprocess-exited-with-error × pip subprocess to install build dependencies did not run successfully. │ exit code: 1 ╰─> [2 lines of output] ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement setuptools>=61.2 (from versions: none) ERROR: No matching distribution found for setuptools>=61.2 [end of output] note: This error originates from a subprocess, and is likely not a problem with pip. error: subprocess-exited-with-error × pip subprocess to install build dependencies did not run successfully. │ exit code: 1 ╰─> See above for output. note: This error originates from a subprocess, and is likely not a problem with pip. -- Henry

1 month, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Filter response from Mailman3 held messages queue.

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Andy Matthews writes: > I've found some libraries which can parse the message property and > extract the relevant bits, but I'd rather pass some sort of flag or > filter to the initial Mailman 3 API call and get back less > information. Before I express my opinion, note that I am not authoritative on this, but I have a decent record on channeling the consensus. So YMMV FWIW I'd be against putting such a thing into the core without a lot of beta testing, I think. I imagine there would be various opinions on how much less and which data should come back. There is a plugin architecture which specifically can be used to implement REST routes: https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/plugins/do… While doing it this way undoubtedly makes it more complicated for the initial implementer, I think it would be a lot simpler (more self-contained) for people who want to implement different filters, etc. > I've looked through the documentation but I'm not finding anything > of the sort. I don't think there is for this, although there's a certain amount of code for filtering the messages that are being processed (stripping attachments of specified MIME types, converting text/html to text/plain, etc). I'm not sure if that's done in advance of holding for moderation. So maybe it would be OK to repurpose that code to your end (though I'd want it to be a proper refactoring, not cargo culting the post distribution filter into the moderation code), and somebody would need to do the same for Postorius. Not necessarily you (I infer you're talking about a separate application that talks to Mailman core for moderation), but availability to Postorius users with common administrative UI would make it a lot more attractive to us.

6 months

[MM3-users] Re: Moderator e-mails only going out once a day

by Stephen J. Turnbull

jkoral(a)luc.edu writes: > Looking at the queues, I see 27 .pck files under shunt from Nov > 14th. Could that be the issue why moderators are not getting their > e-mails right away? No. That is way too old to be the cause of the current moderation issue. Presumably that occurred either at time of upgrade due to some initial misconfiguration, or during a period of network glitching, or possibly it's a spate of spam. The paranoid thing to do with those messages is use "mailman qfile <file>" to examine them, delete any that are unneeded, and use "mailman unshunt" to send the rest (possibly with a separate message from you to subscribers explaining why old messages are suddenly appearing). But you could just assume they're obsolete and delete them. I use cd /path/to/queue/shunt for file in *.pck; do mailman qfile $file | less; done and take notes of which to delete in such situations. > Can I clear the queue by just deleting these files? No. You should *never* delete files in shunt or bad in hopes of resolving an issue. Translated into English, "shunt" is Mailman telling you "as far as Mailman can tell, these messages should be deliverable but something is going wrong, and I need your help to get them sent". Implied is "if *you* don't fix the 'something' for me, it will happen again and I will shunt again." It was worth a try to look at shunt, but unless something very weird is happening to file timestamps, those aren't your missing notifications. I wonder if *owners* get immediate notifications if they are not listed as *moderators*. I seem to recall that they didn't (but maybe I'm imagining things). I don't have time to check right now. Steve

4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Fwd: Re: Removing a mail addresses and users

by Abhilash Raj

On Wed, Jun 10, 2020, at 3:33 PM, Allan Hansen wrote: > All, > > This disconnect between Mailman Core and Django and Postorius is, by > far, the weakest and, for subscribers, most confusing aspect of MM3 > (once it has been installed, which is extremely hard and confusing). The disconnect was intentional to make sure that we are fully able to leverage the power of Django's ability to run multiple dis-connected applications in a single Site and Account system. And Mailman Core was intentionally designed to not be an account management system so it can be kept simple. The disconnect however has caused more confusion than has helped, which we acknowledge. But this disconnect doesn't exist all that much right now, barring any bugs. We synchronize most of the state from Postorius down to Mailman Core including, any additional addresses that you add, primary address etc. Display Names don't trigger an update in Core, but it isn't that hard to do if you open a ticket. > > In a true account-centric system, you set up a web account and from > there manage your emails and, for each email, your subscriptions. > Subscription options would be hierarchical: account/email/list, with > lower levels inheriting/overriding settings from/the level above. You are able to sign in via web and manage your email and subscriptions. The preferences also work exactly how you described above where the lower level override the default and/or upper level settings. > > That’s really what I had expected when I pushed for us to move our 50 > email lists to MM3 and I was very excited about the prospect, > as it would solve a lot of system/subscriber management issues I had > managing MM2. > > Alas, I was very surprised that that’s not how MM3 works. Some things > got harder, even, such as the inability to change subscription > addresses, which should have been a showstopper from the start! > I still hope that MMxx OOTB will get there, but I guess it’ll be along > haul. Would we be talking about MM4 to be released 20 years from now? As a Subscriber, you are able to do switch emails in subscriptions from your options page. The URL to which is displayed in the List's Summary page when you are logged in. Yes, it requires an approval if the list's settings are set to moderate but that is going to be fixed, see this issue[1]. It is quite simple IMO to fix this one, if someone wants to take this up. [1]: https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/issues/425 Are you asking about switching emails as an administrator for your subscribers? > Some dedicated and skilled developers are currently investing heavily > in a replacement for Postorius, but I really believe that any work is > better spent transforming Mailman Core etc. into a true account-based > system. Then, and only then, will it make sense to build new and better > interfaces on top, as, without a healthy core, such interface will > currently may have to inherit the confusion and disconnect that > currently is so aggravating. I don't know if we want to add account management to Core, but User management is missing from Postorius, that is true. We punted on it and delegated that part to Django's admin interface. Long long time ago, I remember seeing that there was a User's tab for managing users, but that has since changed I think. If you and some others on this list would like to propose an RFC here[2], it would be a great help for me. What I am basically looking for is what kind of "User management" are administrators looking for. It doesn't have to be too detailed but a single line example would be: - As a Admin, I would like to delete a User completely from my system, including all their addresses and subscription - Also, it would be good to delete their account but retain their subscriptions - As a Admin, I would like to update User's attributes in the system like: - Manually verify their email address - Manually update their Name - As a User, I would like to delete my own account and all the subscriptions. Maybe this could be a starting point, but something like this can be added to Postorius. [2]: https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/issues/new As for the question in this thread, you are able to delete the User from Django's admin page and that would delete all the related EmailAddress for them. Deleting an Email address doesn't delete the User, since the relationship exists that User owns Emails. There is currently no way to delete all the subscriptions for a User though. > The above is not meant to aggravate the MM3 development team, for which > I have utmost respect and gratitude, and which I admire for their > tireless support given over decades to the community of admins. > Software development is devilishly hard and time consuming. And thank you for posting what you think is an important enhancement to Postorius. We don't have a very strict process to choose what new features to work on, so email like this do help us prioritize. Other users could also help by upvoting or just adding "+1" to the bugs/feature enhancements that affects them the most so we can fix them sooner rather than later. I would be more than happy if more people participated in just being able to prioritize features, all the work really happens in the open on Gitlab. As administrators of some 'open source' lists, the needs of us as admins are somewhat different from what would be in a closed organization and ability to kick someone completely out of the system is something never I had to do since folks are supposed to manage their own subscriptions. We do ban people from sending emails if they've been spamming, but that is a different thing, they are still able to login into Postorius AFAIK. > Yours, > > Allan Hansen > hansen(a)rc.org > > > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > > From: Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> > > Subject: [MM3-users] Re: Removing a mail addresses and users > > Date: June 10, 2020 at 12:46:01 PDT > > To: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > > > On 6/10/20 10:23 AM, Abhijith PA via Mailman-users wrote: > >> Hello. > >> > >> I tried to remove random email address signing ups (which I signed up > >> while testing) via admin panel. After removing I tried to sign up again, > >> but I am getting, > >> > >> 'A user is already registered with this e-mail address' > > > > You removed the user's subscription from the list, but you didn't remove > > the user from the system. > > > > Mailman3 has a concept of `user` which didn't exist in Mailman 2.1. > > User's have addresses and a user or one of the user's addresses can > > belong to a list with one or more roles (non-member, member, moderator > > or owner) > > > > > >> Combing through the database, I found auth_user table in mailman3web db > >> still contain those mail address. How to wipe email address entirely > >> from the db so I can signup again without the 'forget password' method > > > > There are a couple of things. If you log in to the web UI as a django > > superuser, you can go to the django admin UI -> Users section and delete > > the User, but I think that will only delete the web user and not delete > > the user from Mailman core. > > > > You can also log in to the web UI as the user and go to > > <https://lists.mailman3.org/user-profile/delete>, but that again only > > deletes the web user, and if you could do that, you could just subscribe > > once you're logged in, so I assume that's what you want to avoid. > > > > I don't think there is a way for a user as opposed to a site admin to > > delete her user record from Mailman core and even for a site admin, > > there's no way in Postorius to delete a user from core. It has to be > > done via REST > > <https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/rest/docs/…> > > or `mailman shell`. > > > > -- > > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

5 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: spanish localization

by Victoriano Giralt

On Fri, 2021-02-12 at 19:53 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Victoriano Giralt writes: > > > Mark, I'd say the Mailman core message files taht get installed by > > pip are "a bit outdated" (source files dates point to a nightly > > build) ... proof here: > > I don't understand what you think this proves. We can't do the > translations ourselves; we don't have the lingistic skills. So the > dates on the .po files are going to reflect translator activity as > well as core dev activity. Am I missing something that we can do > something about? Thanks Stephen for reminding me that sometimes I write what looks like proper English on the surface, but the meaning of it comes from the deep corners of my mind in some long forgotten dialect :-) I just wanted to make visible that the .mo files were a "bit old". For example, Guillermo, in this thread, pointed that the Spanish translation was quite compelte. Actualy, I spent some hours bringing them to 100% around Christmas. But, the .mo file for es from the pip install --update i did recently is dated November 7th. I have definitely added a lot of translated material from then until the end of the year. I know the translation happens outside the development community. I tried to point that there might be some synchronisation problem, so to say, between the translation site and the packaging of the latest mailman release. I hope this time I've managed to express myself better ;-) I swear my brain was thinking in English as a wrote :-) :-) -- Victoriano Giralt Innovation Director Digital Transformation Vicerectorate University of Malaga +34952131415 SPAIN ================================================================== Note: signature.asc is the electronic signature of present message A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure ? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email ?

4 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Some doc updates from Fedora install experience

by tlhackque

On 26-Jun-17 15:31, Abhilash Raj wrote: > Excerpts from tlhackque--- via Mailman-users's message of June 24, > 2017 4:21 am: >> I had to read code to discover that the web UI (Postorious) server >> address doesn't exist in any config file. > > That is True, there is no stright forward way for Mailman Core to know > who is > using the API and where is the Web UI working. I *think* "Web Host" is > used to > generate emails, but that can't always be completely accurate because > there is > no easy way to know what is the "root" url for Postorius and > Hyperkitty. Generally, the default configurations place it at > "/postorius/" and > "/hyperkitty/", but there are installations where it is placed at > "/mailman3/" > and "/archives/". > It would be helpful for API users to "register" with Mailman, so that API clients can figure out how to direct users to their web pages. There has to be a directory somewhere, and Mailman is the central character. It doesn't have to be one place. Perhaps something like "get( '/lists/config/admin_ui') and get('/lists/config/subscriber_ui") - which could return something like: [ {"type":"gui", "name":"postorius", "uri":"https://www.example.net/mailman3/"}, {"type":"cli","name":"mailmanclient","uri":"domain://my.socket.example.net:1234"},{"type":"gui","name":"mailmanx","uri":"file:///usr/sbin/mailman-Tk"}, ...] (Where the order indicates preference). Speaking of which, without this knowledge, how can Mailman provide the personalized "to unsubscribe, visit your account at "...." customizations"? I see that there are URLs for headers/footers, but we seem to have lost the ability to insert the URL for the GUI managing your list/account into personalized e-mails... >> >> To bind it to something other than localhost, you put the desired ip >> address & port on the >> >> `python manage.py runserver` command line (in mailman-suite_project. > > Ok, so you should never use this in production. AGREEED > This command starts a > "development" server which is only supposed to be used in the development > environment. My development environment is a VM for Mailman, and other VMs for the mail server. And if I try to run a web browser on the Mailman VM, it takes over the machine and even so is unresponsive. So I needed to make the UI visible on the network where my PC is. I do understand the issues, and there are firewalls protecting the environment. > For any production use, in general for any python web app, we use a > wsgi server which interfaces between Django and a "real" web server > like Nginx > or Apache. I would recommend using uwsgi. This[1] and [2] might be of > help. > AGREE. I know that I will have to do this eventually. But my immediate goal is to see if it's possible to get my application talking to Mailman V3 - it's a 1-user environment. So I needed an evaluation environment with the absolute minimum setup costs. If things work out, I'll do the right thing. If not, I can't afford to have spent a week or so untangling nested webservers talking to each-other with frameworks, a half-dozen passwords and config files. This was the quickest path I could find to an 'almost out-of-the-box' evaluation and prototyping environment...and pretty much the only "step-by-step" instructions that I could find. I'd have tried "step-by-step" for production if (a) I could find it and (b) I could configure it with less than a couple of days of study :-( I decided to document this in case it helps someone else. I strongly agree that it's not production, and not for all users. > There is some configuration over here[3] that might help you get it > running. You > would have to change some parameters in the configuration though. > >> >> It must be an IP address - it doesn't resolve DNS names. The port is >> appended to the IP address with a ':'. >> >> So, in venv 2.7 >> `cd mailman-suite_project && python manage.py runserver >> 10.0.0.11:8000` will work. >> >> There are all sorts of issues if your network is at all public, but >> in my >> case, a multi-machine walled garden, with no local web browser, it >> allowed >> bootstrapping to continue. > > It is not supposed to be public and should only be used for development. > Agree, agree, agree. >> >> The runserver command also takes --ipv6 (or -6) to bind to an IPv6 >> address, >> --nothreading and --noreload also exist (but i haven't tracked down >> whethere >> they're useful') > > There are a whole lot of other optins available to `python manage.py` > command > which you can find in the documentation for Django. Truth be told, I had no idea that 'runserver" had anything to do with Django. I was just following instructions to get something out of the box and onto the wire. FWIW, 'python manage.py --help' and 'python manage.py help runserver' are semi-intructive. I still have no clue what an "auto-reloader" is, but the help does say that --noreload won't use it :-) It's clear that a lot of work has gone into this release -- but it's also quite frustrating for people who just want to explore using it to get through the setup effort. I've made some progress. > -- > thanks, > Abhilash Raj

8 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] About mailing list configuration problem

by Stephen J. Turnbull

liutianhua68(a)163.com writes: > 1. When a user subscribes, how to configure it like > "lists.mailman3.org" to send a link to confirm the subscription > instead of just replying to the confirmation email. Not sure what you mean. mailman3.org lists are just configured with a standard setting, may even be default: in the settings tab, member policy page, set subscriber policy to "confirm". They can reply to the email address or use a link in the email. > 2. I used the mailling list I created to test the sending and > receiving of emails, but I didn't see any historical messages in > "Archives",Where is the configuration incorrect? What do you mean by "historical messages"? Do you mean the test messages? The information is insufficient for a confident diagnosis, but I would guess that you have not configured the mailman-hyperkitty add on, which is a few lines of Python code that Mailman core needs to send messages to the HyperKitty archiver. > And the url of my mailing list is "https://list.example.org/hyperkitty/list/" > instead of "https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/", is this > a problem? No. The documentation and the defaults are not entirely consistent on this. Both work, some sites prefer one, some the other. I think that in fact you can make both work with a couple of lines of Python in the Django configuration. > Also ask about the configuration, where to find the relevant > documentation. There's not a lot of separate documentation. The explanations in each settings page are the main documentation. The idea is that list administrators should go through all the settings anyway, to make sure that the defaults are satisfactory for their lists, or change them. In the summer we plan to work on a feature that makes it easier for a list administrator to copy from one list to another.

3 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Auth question

by David Krantz

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 1:06 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > To be more specific, the projects that are required for a fully > functioning Mailman installation with Postorius and Hyperkitty are > > Mailman (the core) > > Hyperkitty (the archiver) > > Postorius (the web list management UI) > > django-mailman3 (common django things used by Postorius and Hyperkitty) > > MailmanClient (python bindings for the core REST API used by Postorius > and Hyperkitty) > > HyperKitty - Mailman plugin (plugin for the core to communicate with > Hyperkitty) > I tried to upgrade today. The result is a broken install which fails when trying to upgrade the database. $> ./bin/mailman-post-update [...] File "/opt/mailman/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.17-py2.7.egg/django/db/backends/base/base.py", line 236, in _commit return self.connection.commit() File "/opt/mailman/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.17-py2.7.egg/django/db/utils.py", line 94, in __exit__ six.reraise(dj_exc_type, dj_exc_value, traceback) File "/opt/mailman/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.17-py2.7.egg/django/db/backends/base/base.py", line 236, in _commit return self.connection.commit() django.db.utils.IntegrityError: update or delete on table "auth_user" violates foreign key constraint "social_auth_usersocial_user_id_193b2d80880502b2_fk_auth_user_id" on table "social_auth_usersocialauth" DETAIL: Key (id)=(3) is still referenced from table "social_auth_usersocialauth". I have tried to drop and recreate the databases but I get the above result anyway. The description in https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%203%20installation%20experience is very hazy. The process of symlinking in libraries is fiddly to say the least. I get mailman to start but not any web interface. I have not tested mailman so if it works rather than just start I do not know. There is a description for a clean install for development at http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/devsetup.html, but I suspect that it isn't usable for anything other than development. I have read it parallell to try to interpret the installation experience description which in turn describes more of what I am trying to do. No luck though. regards // David

8 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Strange issue with bounce processing

by Mark Sapiro

On 12/25/20 6:36 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote: > Dear List, > > First of all Merry Christmas to those of you that are observing it. > > I have an issue on one of my Mailman 3 servers. The bounce runner is not > running, even after restarting mailman core. All the other runners are > working fine. Here is the problem, after restarting it, a number of > messages show up in queue/bounces from a single list. What happens if instead of restating core, you stop and then start it? > However the bounce > runner is still not running. So I remove these messages from > queue/bounces folder and restart mailman core. The same messages show up > from the same single list again in queue/bounces. In the > var/logs/bounce.log file, addresses from this list are being logged as > being removed after starting mailman core. They correlate with the > messages showing up in queue/bounces. Bounce runner doesn't actually do much with received/queued bounces. It just gets the bounce and stores a bounce event in in the bounceevent table in the database. It then periodically processes the unprocessed events in the bounceevent table. See <https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/model/docs…>. > I assume these "cached" bounces are what is interfering with the running > of the bounce runner. I don't see anything in the mailman or > mailmansuite log that would explain this behavior. How can I fix this? I don't really understand what's going on. The only messages which get queued in queue/bounces/ are messages to the LIST-bounces address delivered from the MTA, unless possibly they are somehow in queue/retry/ and being retried. What do you see in the MTA logs? -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: migration plan and auto responder

by Mohsen Masoudfar

Hi, The short version of this question is: How May I setup on Mailman2 to send an auto response to the member who sent an email to the list, but do not send the original email to any list member? I need this functionality during and after migrating the list to a new list server, where the domain name has to be changed. The auto response should inform the list member, who sent the email to the old list, about the name of the new server and domain. Thanks Mohsen -----Original Message----- From: Mohsen Masoudfar <mmasoudf(a)aaas.org> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 12:30 PM To: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org Subject: [MM3-users] migration plan and auto responder [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Hi, I am writing this in the hope to get some good advises for migration lists from Mailman2 to Mailman3. Thanks a lot in advance. Here is the requirements: * During the migration the old system shouldn't process the emails for the list under migration in the normal way. It should send an email, and only one to the member who sent the original email to the list saying the list is under migration. I know I could do this by auto responder, but the original email would be processed and sent to all members, which I want to block . * After migration the old system should send, per auto responder again, an email to the member who sent to the list, mentioning the new address (the domain is a new one, the list name the same), but again not sending the original email to the list members. * No hackers, robots, spammers should get the new list address. The lists are all hidden. Best regards Mohsen Masoudfar Lead System Analyst, IT Operation American Association for the Advancement of Science 1200 New York Ave, NW, Washington, DC 20005 202-326-7087 _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.mai…

5 years

[MM3-users] Re: Apple Mail encoding again

by Mark Sapiro

On 4/14/22 08:21, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Mark Sapiro writes: > > > That combination at least produces multipart/signed messages with > > multipart/* parts containing a Content-Transfer-Encoding: header. > > > > The Python 3 email library considers this to be a > > InvalidMultipartContentTransferEncodingDefect() message defect. > > Merely containing C-T-E is not an error per RFC 2045, although it > seems to consider it a stupid thing to do. If present, it may be > "binary", "7-bit", or "8-bit" (below summarized as "cleartext"). > > Did Apple Mail apply a non-cleartext C-T-E? Or has an RFC tightening > that restriction been published since? (I don't know why it would, > though.) Yes. The C-T-E on all the multipart parts was quoted-printable, not allowed under RFC 2045. > Even with a non-cleartext C-T-E, it seems reasonable for Mailman to > treat it as application/octet-stream and pass it through, unless the > list is configured to do something like strip application/octet-stream > or that requires decoding like spam-filtering (Postel principle, > although one could argue it shouldn't be sent on on the same principle > -- ah, the joys of being an e-mail Mediator). That would be > especially true it if were quoted-printable, since any relevant MIME > headers would (presumably) be pure ASCII and therefore unencoded. The Python email library says the message is defective. Mailman's lmtp runner in turn rejects the defective message with a 501 status https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/blob/master/src/mailman/runners/lmtp.p… It could accept a defective message or one with specific defects, but this is problematic for further processing. For example, at least one MUA, Thunderbird, renders such a message with an empty body. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Restore/export existing Mailman lists + hyperkitty archives on a new server

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Kimmo L writes: > > What does mailman conf -k anonymous_list_keep_headers > > show, and what is the content of mailman/handlers/cleanse.py? > Command output: [mailman] anonymous_list_keep_headers: Mark may have more suggestions, but this is almost certainly the cause of the problem. The default for this parameter is anonymous_list_keep_headers: ^(?!x-) ^x-mailman- ^x-content-filtered-by: ^x-topics: ^x-ack: ^x-beenthere: ^x-list-administrivia: ^x-spam- which is a list of strings separated by spaces, and I believe the leading space on the second line is significant (meaning a continuation of the list on the first line). There are a number of possibilities that cause this. (1) Check whether anonymous_list_keep_headers is set in mailman.cfg. If it is, it may be all you need to do is remove a spurious newline after the keyword anonymous_list_keep_headers. Otherwise, you can restore the default by copying the setting above. (2) If not, schema.cfg is corrupt or missing, and the default setting for anonymous_list_keep_headers is empty. In that case you should get a pristine copy of schema.cfg to compare to and check for any other undesired changes. If you actually intended to change the value of this parameter, (1) you must keep the ^(?!x-) because this protects all the standard fields like To, From, Content-Type and Message-ID that are essential for any mail system; (2) you should keep the following: ^x-mailman- ^x-topics: ^x-ack: ^x-beenthere: ^x-list-administrivia: because they are used internally by Mailman, and do not contain any identifying information; (3) you probably should keep ^x-content-filtered-by: because it is used by Mailman, and should not contain identifying information; and (4) you may want to remove x-spam- because they occasionally identify MTAs upstream of you, but this degree of anonymization is rarely needed. > And content of mailman/handlers/cleanse.py: This appears to be unchanged from the distribution, as expected.

2 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Using MySQL via unix socket

by Torge Riedel

Am 02.02.19 um 19:06 schrieb Mark Sapiro: > On 2/2/19 5:31 AM, Torge Riedel wrote: >> A call to >> >> mysql -umailman -p >> >> successfully uses the socket on the machine and logs in. > > Yet you haven't specified -S or --socket > > >> I tried >> >> mysql+pymysql://mailman:mailmanpass@127.0.0.1/mailman3?charset=utf8&use_unicode=1&unix_socket=/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock >> >> >> as the connection string but it says that mysql server is not available. >> Which is the same if remove the "unix_socket" parameter. I have found >> this parameter when searching the net, but I'm not sure if it is supported. > > I think it should be, but the actual connection is via the the > sqlalchemy create_engine() function. It appears this should be passed to > the pymysql Connection() function per > <https://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_1_2/core/engines.html#custom-dbapi-args> > > What happens if in a Python 3 session, you do > > from pymysql import connect > conn = connect('127.0.0.1', > user='mailman', > password='mailmanpass', > database='mailman3', > charset='utf8', > use_unicode=1, > unix_socket='/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock') > > As I understand it, that's what sqlalchemy should be doing with your > database url. In my testing, the above works with or without the > unix_socket= argument, so I suspect something else is wrong in your case. > Hi, thanks a lot for your answer. Yes, sounds valid that something else is (or was) wrong in my environment. I'm new to docker containers and might have overseen something. I now managed it a different way: I used rinetd on the host to redirect connections from docker host ip of a bridged network to 127.0.0.1 to make MySQL accessible in the docker container. This works and avoids mapping the mysqld.sock file into the container. Thanks again Torge

6 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Database deadlock when trying to delete a member.

by Simon Coggins

Hi, I’ve got a strange error. I migrated from mailman 2.1 to 3 using the migration guide on the website and things have been working fine. But I’m in the process of testing the new syncmembers command to replace some inhouse mailman API code we wrote. I’ve tracked my problem down to what appears to be a deadlock in the postgresql database. When trying to delete certain users the SQL query hangs and never returns. After doing some tracing and tracking it down to the database, I enabled DB logging of all queries and saw that the following query was never returning: DELETE FROM member WHERE member.id = 166814 If I try to run it manually I get the same issue, in psql it never returns. mailman=# explain analyze DELETE FROM member WHERE member.id = 166814; [… 60 seconds passes…] ^CCancel request sent ERROR: canceling statement due to user request CONTEXT: while deleting tuple (2998,72) in relation "member" I’m just wondering if there are any commands or scripts I can run to verify the database and it’s constraints to see if there is some error in the database data? Or where you’d recommend I go from here? It only impacts the user on this specific list. If I add this user to another list and remove them, everything works fine. This is on a test system so I can do various testing. I’m trying to find the root cause so that I can verify my production system isn’t impacted by the same thing. Setup Details: OS: Oracle Linux 7 (Redhat) Installed using pip via virtualenv talking to a local pgsql database on the same box. Data was migrated from a mailman 2.1 install into mailman3 using migration instructions on the website. PIP Modules versions: django-mailman3 1.3.5 mailman 3.3.3 mailman-hyperkitty 1.1.0 mailmanclient 3.3.2 postorius 1.3.4 psycopg2-binary 2.8.5 RPM packages: postgresql12-12.6-1PGDG.rhel7.x86_64 postgresql12-server-12.6-1PGDG.rhel7.x86_64 postgresql12-libs-12.6-1PGDG.rhel7.x86_64 postgresql12-devel-12.6-1PGDG.rhel7.x86_64 -Simon

4 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman 3 with AWS auto scaling and potentially load balancing

by Abhilash Raj

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018, at 7:35 AM, Chris McMacken wrote: > After doing a lot of googling I can't seem to find solid answers to a > couple of basic mailman hosting questions so I thought I would ask here. > > I'm looking to build an auto scaling group so that my mailman services > can self heal if the EC2 instance goes away. What state if any is stored > locally on the filesystem that would need to be backed up and restored > when an instance is replaced? Maliman Core, the engine that sends and receives emails stores messages in queues on disk. Usually this is all inside "var" directory, but they may be scattered depending on where you install Mailman 3 from. So, you'd have to backup all those directories from the host. Apart from that, Mailman Core and Django frontend all store most of their other data in a databases and you can backup-restore them using usual methods. > > I'm also interested in a high availability deployment so I would like to > do some basic load balancing to ensure that this requirement is met but > I haven't been able to find much on this topic for mailman 3. Since Core store some state on disk, it won't be possible to have multiple instances of Core serving the front-end. Front-end on the other-hand (based on Django) can easily be scaled and made to talk to a single Core as it stores everything in a Database that you can share across them. Note that for now, Core expects to know the address for front-end (for archiving), and doesn't yet support multiple options there. So, you'd have to have one instance for receiving archived emails from Core and then others can just serve it. -- Abhilash Raj maxking(a)asynchronous.in

7 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Newbie question 2: Rewriting issue for bounced emails

by William Oliver

On Sun, 2021-12-26 at 16:47 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 12/26/21 3:06 PM, William Oliver wrote: > > > > When running mailman3, do I need to set up a completely different > > virtual domain for it to run in? > > No. > > > > My "real" domain name is > > libertyfp.org, and I'm trying to make mailman work on that domain, > > e.g. > > "testlist(a)libertyfp.org." I'm starting to get the idea that I need > > to > > stick a completely different domain in there for the mailinglist. > > No. > > DNS or anywhere outside your server. > > Have you actually set an alias domain in Postorius for the > libertyfp.org > domain. It doesn't matter what name it is as long as it isn't > a real domain. A good choice is x.libertyfp.org. Have you set that > or > things like > > testlist(a)libertyfp.org testlist(a)x.libertyfp.org > testlist-bounces(a)libertyfp.org testlist-bounces(a)x.libertyfp.org > testlist-confirm(a)libertyfp.org testlist-confirm(a)x.libertyfp.org > ... [snip] Ah. I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that I had to tweak *postfix* to get this done. It's not that you weren't clear, it's that when I read the mailman3 instructions, I got the impression that *mailman* would set the alias domain automatically, so I was dead set on munging postfix. This makes more sense, and I can back out of some of the changes I made in postfix, which for the last couple of rounds was mostly flailing about randomly -- I've heard that's often not a good admin strategy. So.. if I need to do it myself, can you point me to what file I need to create/modify in the /opt/mailman/mm tree to set up the alias? Thanks! billo

3 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Initial success: Mailman 3.3 integrated with Zimbra 8.8

by Morris Jones

I have a very old existing mail server running Zimbra 6 with a mailman 2.1 instance alongside. I needed to rebuild my mail server for some compelling reasons (the old server used outdated TLS protocol, I could no longer compile clamav, nothing could really be updated). The final straw was a lack of support for my old commercial SSL certificates. I patched in a letsencrypt certificate to get through the past six months. I'm in the process of commissioning a new mail server using an 8GB Linode, Ubuntu 18, Zimbra 8.8, and Mailman 3.3. A couple of days ago I had my first successful list creation, with user confirmation working by email. I have django running with uwsgi, and am using Zimbra's installed nginx proxy to reverse proxy http traffic to Postorius and Hyperkitty. Nginx is doing the SSL layer. The mailman core mta hooks are all done using Zimbra's "local configuration" technique. In theory I should be able to do Zimbra upgrades with a minimum of hassle. I've written up a "case history" of how it came together. I have a .rst file in a gitlab project here: https://gitlab.com/MojoLA/mailman3.3-zimbra-8.8-integration I suppose this is a crazy project, but it's worthwhile to me. (Mark, thank's so much for integrating the virtual domain maps. It took me about three days to recognize that they were the solution to bounced mails to list-owner@...) Now I can spend some time migrating my email accounts (only four) from the old server to the new one, and move a dozen or so mailing lists to the new mailman3 instance. I'll have to get accustomed to a new way to manage the mail lists, and already really like what I've seen. Thank you. :) Best regards, Mojo -- Morris Jones, Monrovia, CA BridgeMojo <http://bridgemojo.com> Old Town Sidewalk Astronomers <http://otastro.org> Mojo's Blog <http://mojo.whiteoaks.com>

4 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Disabled by bounce

by Mark Sapiro

On 2/17/23 13:39, denise.mcgeachy--- via Mailman-users wrote: > Hi all - new to this forum but am trying to work out a similar issue raised by a list member's IT department. I'm a bit out of my depth here and hoping you all can help. > > They have recommended: > > - When the mailing list relay an email from a member of the list to other members, the email from address should be the mailing list and not the user sending the original email. For example: list-name(a)mydomain.ca (on behalf of Sally Brown) > - The mailing list should not modify the original email and thus breaking the DKIM signature > > I have clicked the DMARC mitigation unconditionally option which seems to solve the second point but haven't managed to have it sent by the list name but not as suggested in the first point. I either get "my email via list(a)mylist.ca" or list(a)mylist.ca" > Is anyone aware of a setting to do this? Those two points are contradictory. You can't do both. Not modifying the message in ways that break DKIM requires no content filtering, no addition of list headers or footers and no munging of From: or Reply-To: headers. Normally the list will make some modification that will break DKIM signatures. If you set DMARC mitigation action to Replace From: with list address, and set DMARC Mitigate unconditionally, that should address the first point and individual messages from the list will be From the list and that's all you should need. For example, the message to which I'm replying is From: denise.mcgeachy--- via Mailman-users <mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> While this is not identical to the format you quote, the address is the list's address which is the important thing. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Importing archive from mm21

by Lars Bjørndal

On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 01:26:03PM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 11/27/23 13:01, Lars Bjørndal wrote: > > I imported an archive from a list created in September 2013 with the > > following command: > > > > mailman-web hyperkitty_import -l annonsering(a)hodr.no --since 2013-09-01 <mbox file> > > > If it's a new list with no current archive, I typically don't use --since. > If there might be messages in the archive, I normally use something like > `--since 1970-01-01` just to be sure I get everything. There was some new messages in the archive prior to the import. > > No errors reported. > > > And this should have imported all messages with Date: header dates >= > 2013-09-01 plus any without Date: headers. > > > I then did > > > > mailman-web update_index_one_list annonsering(a)hodr.no > > > > No, when I go to https://hodr.no/archives/list/annonsering@hodr.no/, I > > cannot choose mails earlier than January 2023. > > > > What's the problem, do you think? > > The messages are there. I went to > https://hodr.no/archives/list/annonsering@hodr.no/ and only saw messages > from 2023, but then I went to > https://hodr.no/archives/list/annonsering@hodr.no/latest?count=200&page=2 > and started seeing all the messages even at > https://hodr.no/archives/list/annonsering@hodr.no/. > > What do you see now? Now, all messages are visible. > I also note your pages seem to be missing the styling as the references to > the styles, etc at https://hodr.no/static/* all return 404. Thank you. I had `Alias /mailman3/static /opt/mailman3/web/static` instead of `Alias /static /opt/mailman3/web/static`. As I'm blind, I didn't notice that missed icons/styling. > Is the issue fixed for you now? I don't understand what caused the issue. Tyank you, the issue is fixed. Lars

1 year, 8 months

[MM3-users] How to strip DKIM headers on a domain level or a list level

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Rob Jenson writes: > I need to strip DKIM headers on the inbound messages to my list or > to my domain. Why do you need to strip DKIM headers? The standard specifies that an invalid DKIM signature must be treated the same as if there were no signature at all. So an invalid DKIM signature may be treated as spammier than a message with a valid signature, but that should not be treated differently from an unsigned message (as would appear after removing those header fields). I know this feature is in demand from list admins, but I've never seen convincing evidence that it's actually effective for any of the usual suspects (Yahoo!, AOL, Gmail), only for small domains with pigheaded admins who are proud of their non-conforming configurations, and announce that they are discarding messages which have invalid DKIM signatures. > What I do not understand from the documentation for Mailman 3 Core > is whether it is possible for my hosting service to set > remove_dkim_headers just for our domain. It currently is not possible. It probably could be made possible on a per-domain or per-list basis, but it's not clear to me why it would be useful to do so. If there really are non-conforming receivers out there, it's probably a good idea to strip host-wide. > If that is not possible, then the question becomes "is there a way, > in the list configuration, to strip the DKIM headers? It is possible, but that requires changing the list's processing pipeline to add that capability. I believe this is not difficult (I haven't done similar changes with Mailman 3 yet) but it does require the assistance of the host, and possibly imposes a future maintenance burden on the host. > We are munging the text of the message in Mailman, so the DKIM > headers from the original poster are invalid. As I explained above, both DKIM and DMARC are specified so that "no signature" == "invalid signature" for the purposes of spam processing. Are you sure that Yahoo! (or any other provider used by your subscribers) is treating invalid signatures differently from absence of signatures? The person responsible for Yahoo! MTA configuration is a well-known mail security expert who participated actively in the specification of all these protocols (and she also gave me a kitten, so I may be biased). > As far as I can see, our service provider is using ARC in our > Mailman configuration, but not signing the outbound messages with > DKIM. That surprises me. ARC isn't really a substitute for the MTA's own DKIM signature, at least not yet. > Therefore the DKIM signature from the poster's mail service > provider is sent out with their DKIM header, which seems to be > problematic. It shouldn't be. > If I understand ARC correctly, it is validating the DKIM signature > from the poster, creating a new signature and metadata indicating > that what it received was properly signed. That is correct. As far as I know, Yahoo! does participate in the ARC protocol and used to have conforming implementations of DKIM and DMARC. That doesn't mean you get a free ride: they may still have your IP on a blacklist from former owners of the IP, for example. Or your posts may "look like" spam for some other reason, or your lists may need more time to build up a clean reputation. But I need evidence more convincing than "list posts are recognized as spam" to believe that removing DKIM headers will help. (For example, my employer's filters regularly recognize messages from department heads as spam, even with DKIM signatures intact. ;-)

4 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Error -- postorius Un-handled exception

by Mark

> On Sat, Jan 27, 2024 at 8:17 AM Mark <imark(a)posteo.net> wrote: >> 3. For the user "mailman" to access the databases I needed to change >> the >> owner to mailman (even though all privileges has been granted) ... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 2024-01-27 18:51, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > The issue you're dealing with in that case is this change in > PostgreSQL-15 > discussed in this blog: > https://www.cybertec-postgresql.com/en/error-permission-denied-schema-publi… > > I have never needed to do `psql -d mailman -U mailman -W`. > I used the steps documented above to enable mailman user to write to > the > database. > > postgres=# \c mailmanweb postgres > You are now connected to database "mailmanweb" as user "postgres". > mailmanweb=# GRANT ALL ON SCHEMA public TO mailman; > GRANT > mailmanweb=# \c mailman postgres > You are now connected to database "mailman" as user "postgres". > mailmanweb=# GRANT ALL ON SCHEMA public TO mailman; > GRANT > > TBH, I am not sure which method is the best although I think this > option is > :) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the heads up on that blog Odhiambo. Agreed. it is a better way of doing it. --- SNIP --- In PostgreSQL 14 and in prior versions, by default anybody can create a table. The new table will simply end up in the PUBLIC schema. The problem with this approach is that the public schema can quickly turn into a trash can containing all kinds of used and unused tables – which is neither desirable nor recommended. An even bigger problem is security: almost any privilege escalation attack on a PostgreSQL database requires the attacker to create malicious objects. ... The public schema is the perfect vector for such a privilege escalation attack. Therefore PostgreSQL has made a major leap forward and changed this behavior. In version 15, only the database owner can create objects in the public schema. ---

1 year, 6 months

[MM3-users] Treatment of hostname in /etc/hosts [was: Splitting hosts ...]

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Ruth Ivimey-Cook writes: > The localhost address is coming in via the hosts file, which is a > relatively standard practice IMO. OK, so I did a little research on this. You don't need to read this to continue discussion, but since other users have expressed interest in splitting hostname from listener IP address, I am posting what I've learned about aliasing hostname to localhost. This doesn't apply directly to multihomed hosts as also mentioned in this thread, and additions and corrections are, of course, welcome. It had been my understanding that conventional wisdom is that "127.0.0.1 localhost" is *all* that you should put in /etc/hosts in most cases, so I did a couple of web searches. As far as my search-fu got me, there is no standard beyond putting localhost itself in there, which is used by a lot of boot scripts. But as a matter of common practice, the Debian family supplies an /etc/hosts that defaults to aliasing the host's FQDN to 127.0.1.1 (not 127.0.0.1), apparently as a kludge to keep GNOME happy: http://www.leonardoborda.com/blog/127-0-1-1-ubuntu-debian/ systemd-resolvd does something different; in the case that there is no interface configured *and* no /etc/hosts entry, it resolves the "local, configured hostname" to 127.0.0.2 (again, not 127.0.0.1). But if there is an interface configured, it resolves to that interface's IP. Apparently this is intended to speed up systemd-based boot processes by allowing them to run in parallel. Fedora issue tracker reports it leads to a problem similar to the one being discussed, eg, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1116538#c25 Bottom line: neither the Debian family nor the Red Hat family aliases hostname to localhost; by default it's a separate "interface". And Red Hat does it conditionally on no real interface found. As far as I can tell, these workarounds are about placating software that breaks in one way or another if the host's own FQDN does not resolve at all when they start up, presumably because the resolver can't reach the network -- but they don't care if it's consistent with DNS as long as it connects to the local host, which leads to a fairly arbitrary practice of aliasing the hostname to localhost. All of which suggests to me that such software should be special-casing the host's various identifiers (hostname, canonical FQDN, /etc/hosts aliases, all of which it can easily discover) and translate them to "localhost", rather than asking the resolver to do it and creating an inconsistency with DNS. Of course, getting other software to Do The Right Thing is pretty hopeless, but the solution is simple: wait for the network to come up and use the configured interface's address by looking up the canonical hostname. This works for GNOME and Postfix (mentioned in the references above), and for Mailman. AFAICS, the exceptions are (1) running a high-availability "cloud" system that needs to scale very quickly on-demand (in which case you want to start things in parallel and need to deal with the real race conditions involved), and (2) a need to do work while disconnected. The former is over my pay grade but apparently Fedora has not managed to get it 100% reliable even with systemd. The latter case can be dealt with by putting your static IP address in /etc/hosts when you have one, which I presume > I could change it, but then perhaps other things would not work. > I would prefer to be able to specify what I need. Notwithstanding the discussion above about why it "shouldn't" break anything, I wouldn't be surprised if something breaks -- such configuration choices tend to ramify. I sympathize with you not wanting to change a configuration that works for you. Steve

5 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Error while running mailman-web compilemessages

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Prasanth Nair writes: > Thank you for the quick response and for the possible causes. I'm using the > following versions. > Django: 3.0.14 > msgfmt: 0.19.8.1 The Django and msgfmt versions are not the issue. However, both of those versions are quite out of date. I'm not sure if it matters if you update msgfmt, but the documentation site for Django 3.0 now says "This document is for an insecure version of Django that is no longer supported. Please upgrade to a newer release!" I found some time to track down the source code, and the ar (Arabic) translation is buggy as far as I can tell. I do not understand how this can possibly have ever worked, the initial version from 2020-06-07 has all the same problems. I am not familiar with the configuration of translations in Django; perhaps you can omit it without messing with the source, and that's why it works for us. If you can't find a way to "unconfigure" it, and you don't need it, I suggest you either delete the ar/LC_MESSAGE/django.po file, or move it somewhere msgfmt can't find it. If you do need it, you should look for "%", and edit so the "%(variable_name)s" strings are exactly the same in the Arabic (msgstr) lines as they are in the original (msgid) lines. I don't speak Arabic, so I have no idea if those variable references are in the right places to make sense in Arabic. If you are not familiar with BIDI text, be prepared for strange behavior from your editor. That is, if the editor is Unicode-conformant, it's likely that the cursor will move "backwards" through the Arabic and jump over then move forward through the English. It's bedtime for me now, but I will probably file a bug witht eh django_extensions project in the morning. Steve

3 years

[MM3-users] Re: Mail configuration

by Bill Christensen

Though not a perfect solution, setting an SPF in your DNS will help. Enter something along the lines of: v=spf1 include: mailServerDomainName.com ip4:<old_IP_Address> ip4:<new_IP_address> ~all (obviously, change the generic entries to real values, and use IP6 addresses if appropriate. ) On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 6:34 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > On 03/27/2018 03:43 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > > > My feeling is that you want to ask on Postfix channels, since I don't > > see a good reason to involve Mailman itself in what is really a task > > for the MTA. Mailman was deliberately designed to not know anything > > about outgoing mail except a host and port to send to. > > > Which brings up the point I've been meaning to post for days but it > keeps slipping off the back burner and falling on the floor. > > I can think of a couple of ways to hack the code in Mailman 2.1 to > select a different outgoing MTA by list. It can also be done in Mailman > 3 by having separate MTA configs per list, but I can't give you a recipe > off hand. > > But, the way I would do this is what you are presumably doing anyway. > That is have separate Mailman installations on the old and new server. > Then you can move the lists incrementally and gradually. Then all you > need is a transport map in Postfix on the old server to route mail to > the new server for the already moved lists, and then finally update DNS > after all the lists are moved. > > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ >

7 years

[MM3-users] Re: Python is updated

by Odhiambo Washington

On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 11:14 AM Mark London <mrl(a)psfc.mit.edu> wrote: > Because of my own personal horror stories of waking up to finding high > priority linux servers broken, due to nightly automated updates, I now > prevent automatic updates on my servers. I only do manual security > updates. In addition to implementing modern security techniques for our > network. That is just my personal belief system. It's worked for > the past 25 years. > > The only time we ever got hacked, was because of some stupid php scripts > that our developers had put online, or because people's passwords had > become leaked. And some of those situations were nightmares also. In > two case of which, happened while I was away on vacation, and I had to > fix everything remotely. But that was never due to updates. > > I probably shouldn't express my opinion. But I have a lot of empathy > for the guy who discovered his mailman broken due to upgraded Python. > Which triggered my nightmares. > > But it's great though to have a very responsive community here, to bring > people back from the dead. - Mark > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ LOL IMHO, automated upgrades on any server is a bad thing! You have just seen that with Python. Imagine you were running PHP code and you automatically upgraded from PHP7 to PHP8! Chances are high that all your PHP applications will be broken in the process. You ALWAYS need to review all the software for compatibility (with your code & configs) before you do an upgrade. Such information will be clearly spelt in the ChangeLog, which requires a human to read and decide. Or maybe in 2023, ChatGPT can help with that? :-) -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]

2 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: "Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on port 25"

by Mark Sapiro

On 9/18/19 11:29 AM, Manos Pitsidianakis wrote: > Hello, > > I've been getting "Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on port 25" > from runner "out" in mailman.log over some mails stuck in shunt queue, > postfix logs show nothing when this happens, tcpdump on lo interface > port 25 shows nothing. The log shows up when I start mailman, and then > it seems not to show up again. That log message is only written once. It won't be written again unless the out runner is restarted or there is a successful delivery followed by another socket.error. > I can do 'telnet localhost 25' just fine, including as mailman user. I > can send and receive mail on my mail server. I tried making a test list > and sent/received messages fine. Is only one list affected, and is it all messages from this list or only some? > smtp debug logs show "Using agent: <mailman.mta.deliver.Deliver object > at 0x7fdd9793c940>" and "IndividualDelivery to: <email(a)address.tld>" on > repeat, where the email address is one of the addresses of the shunted > mails. Do some deliveries of the problem message succeed? I.e., in the normal case without failure, there will be one "IndividualDelivery to: <email(a)address.tld>" message for each recipient in the recipients list. In the shunted message case, the msgdata object in the shunted pickle contains the recipients. Are there "IndividualDelivery to: <email(a)address.tld>" entries for some but not all recipients. Is the last of these an invalid local address? (Postfix can return a 421 status and drop the connection if there are too many invalid local recipients, although I don't know if this would apply in the VERP case. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'mailman_web'

by Stephen J. Turnbull

gordon(a)dickens.com writes: > "systemctl stautus mailman" generates the following output: That's what I expected, consistent with your previous report. > > According to my logs, the upgrade from Debian 11 to 12 began at > > exactly 2023-10-31 13:50. > "journalctl -S "2023-10-31 13:50" -u mailman -x" > generates the following output: I didn't want any of that. I just wanted the log from the most recent attempt to start Mailman. > Note that the above journalctl command does not generate any output > after 2023-10-31 14:19:43 although I have been running the startup > script often. I'm a SYSV init person. Perhaps the journalctl command I suggested was insufficiently inclusive. But that seems very strange to me. > "ps -e -f | grep mailman" generates the following output: Hm. This has nothing to do with your problem as far as I know, but why is a uwsgi command in your venv/bin? Debian has a package for that, are you not using it? Did you do anything specific to put uwsgi there? Oh, wait ... there's a possibility that your best bet is to delete the old venv as inconsistent and create a new one. In that case be sure you know how to get uwsgi installed where your startup scripts expect it. > Basically, it does not appear that mailman nor the runners are > active and rebooting does not help. > "/opt/mailman/venv/bin/mailman start" > generates errors as follows: [...] > >pkg_resources.DistributionNotFound: The 'mailman==3.3.5' > >distribution was not found and is required by the application 3.3.5 is quite old now. Is that the version of Mailman you've installed and were expecting? It seems likely to me that somehow the Mailman package has been upgraded to a more recent version but the venv/bin/mailman command has not been upgraded. Is that command owned by the mailman user? Steve

1 year, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Apple Mail encoding again

by tlhackque

On 22-Apr-22 02:12, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > tlhackque via Mailman-users writes: > > > An up-to-date Thunderbird user - the message with the > > "mail-with-defect.txt" attachment, as forwarded by [MME-users] (selected > > headers below for ID) displays as blank. Interestingly, the Thunderbird > > error console has no error message related to this. > > > > So there's really no point in passing it along, unless "pass these > > defects" turns into "repair these defects". > > That's a Thunderbird problem, though, and nonconforming to the Postel > Principle. As I subsequently wrote, I agree and logged a bug report for TB. Apparently the other people who reported experiencing the issue here never did. However, it's not clear whether it's the same "blank display" issue - I'm pretty sure mine was due to the broken signature; others seemed to indicate the CTE headers. So I hope those with the ability to sort that out will add to the bug report... The Postel Principle is a useful, sweeping generalization. It's not an absolute. It doesn't say "be so liberal in what you accept that you do something sensible with all possible input faults, including those that you never thought of and any input contrary to a specification". One could argue that TB was liberal enough not to crash. I don't expect any MUA to display non-conforming messages as the sender intended. It's unquestionably a bug that TB failed to display anything, even "I don't understand this malformed message". If it did that, further conformance to the Postel Principle would be a matter of degree. It could display the raw message body, try to intuit and format the most involved content, fall back to any text/plain part, offer to send a bug report to vendor of the MUA identified in the headers, or... However, the point I tried to make with this example is that passing-on defects isn't a good solution. At best, receivers whose MUA tolerates a defect (or interprets it in a useful way) benefit. But to others, MM looks like a flaky source - some people can read some messages some of the time. And it amplifies the impact of the defect by distributing it to a large(r) audience. (Similar to the DDOS DNS amplification attacks.) So if there's an issue identified that causes pain for the MM community, I think it best to either (a) bounce the message with an explanation or (b) if possible (and in a Postelish spirit) repair the defect. > > Note that MailMan is encapsulating a multipart/signed message in a > > multipart/mixed in order to append it's footer, and reports that it > > removed the signature part of the multipart/signed. This makes the > > signed message format invalid. So at least, MM3 needs to handle signed > > messages better: either include the signature or remove the signature > > headers (an unwrapping exercise to convert the message to > > unsigned)... > > For the former, we already try pretty hard to include the signature. > At least on this list "Pass types" is > > multipart > message/rfc822 > text > application/pgp-signature > application/x-pkcs7-signature > application/pkcs7-signature > > although I see Mark just added that last one or two. Of course, "x-" > tokens are deprecated except for private use, maybe we should be > unsympathetic to x-pkcs7-signature, too? :-) The last two were added in response to my analysis. There are a lot of x-mime types that were subsequently standardized. There's no good solution for migrating from an experiment to a standard. Your friend the Postel Principle gets in the way - since it's clear that the semantics are identical, you should generate the standard, but accept both the experimental and standard... :-) Converting to unsigned, while possible, is a bad idea in the vast majority of cases. More later. > > > > In either case, corrupting messages is a MM issue. > > I disagree, in part. Although you do address this, let me use the > example of this case where the signed body is multipart/alternative. > I think it's perfectly reasonable for a list to configure to remove > the text/html part, which will break the signature. Then there are > three possible ways to go: (1a) leave the signature in place, broken, > thus informing recipients it was supposed to be signed and leaving it > to them to follow up, (1b) to change the multipart/signed content-type > to multipart/mixed and replace the signature with a "removed" notice, > and (2) to remove the signature and multipart structure, leaving > recipients unaware that the message was intended to be signed. Each > of those is problematic, each in its own way. Supporting all of them > and the list configuration infrastructure to allow admins to choose > would be an unwarranted burden on us, IMO. The fourth, and probably correct, possible action is to bounce the message. Someone signed it for a reason. If its content violates the list policy, it can't be fixed and stay signed. So tell the sender why it can't be accepted, and give him the option to remove the banned part(s) or remove the signature. If someone signs a message, substituting the judgement of some random remote list manager (human or automaton) doesn't seem like the right thing to do... > > > multipart/signed should imply accepting the signature part (in this > > case, application/x-pkcs7-signature). If signatures aren't allowed by > > policy, then multipart/signed should be bounced. > > I find it hard to believe that anyone would want a "deny signed > bodies" policy So would I. But I sign messages by default, and run into this. And the argument goes "the signature doesn't add anything. It occupies space (itself and it can cause e.g. base64 encoding of plain text) and my users don't care and it's a techie's vanity exercise and it causes problems (like the ones discussed here), and..." > , but it's easily implemented. Put multipart/signed in > "Filter types". > A configuration explicitly banning signature > algorithms but not multipart/signed is a user error in that case. Yes. And (I won't mention the PP here, but...) it's clear that even experienced administrators (e.g. Mark) fall into this trap. In fact, I think accept "multipart" (meaning multipart/*) is a default or at least recommended configuration. So MM should either detect it, or behave reasonably. I'm suggesting that a reasonable behavior would be: If an incoming message is signed and the associated signature part is not explicitly banned, accept the signature part. If signed and the signature part is banned, or if signed and signed mail is banned: bounce the message. > I > guess I can imagine wanting to ban certain types (eg, known > exploitable algorithms), and if one has such a use case and wants the > message rejected rather than simply stripping the signature as > unusable, "patches welcome" -- I can't see that level of care as worth > our time, though. I'm not going as far as selective algorithm enforcement. That would only make sense if MM got smart enough to validate signatures of signed mail - e.g. to bounce mail with bad signatures. (Which might be a worthy goal, but out of scope of this exchange...) But I stand by "if the sender signed it, then accept it or bounce it." Messing with it only leads to where there be dragons. > > > (I don't think it's reasonable to expect MM admins to "know" to > > configure their lists to pass signature parts if accepting signed - > > after all, this list is run by experts :-) > > I agree with that. It's not clear that we should do something about > it, though. There are two possibilities: (1) the list admin doesn't > care about signatures, and simply wanted to allow multimedia mail, and > (2) the list admin wants to admit signatures on purpose, for some > purpose. > > In case (1), this is mostly a cosmetic problem, and possibly involves > minor annoyance. The signature validation will fail and maybe there's > a text notice about removed parts, that's cosmetic. A subscriber who > cares about the signature might have to contact the author for > validation, that's the annoyance. In case (2), we do not know what > the requirements are. We should refuse to guess and we can assume > that list admin knows [more about what] she's doing [than we possibly > can] and leave it up to her. I'm taking the position that the originator's intent should control. If (s)he doesn't sign a message, then MM/the admin is free to change the content per (hopefully published) list policy. If (s)he did sign a message, the MM must either deliver it with the signature intact, or bounce it for policy reasons. > > If you think that we can know a lot about a very common use case in > principle, I'd like to hear about it, but for now that's my stance, > > Steve >

3 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Weird response to postings after subscriptions and accounts

by Mark Sapiro

On 9/16/19 9:22 PM, Paul Arenson wrote: > In my test of the two forms of signup, I am getting these unexpected results. Is it my settings or is something weird within the program itself? > > 1) https://list.tokyoprogressive.org/postorius/lists/discuss.list.tokyoprogres… > > 2) Choose "You can also subscribe without creating an account. If you wish to do so, please use the form below" > > 3) Then I have to approve it. They get "Welcome to the "Discuss" mailing list! To post to this list, send your email to: discuss(a)list.tokyoprogressive.org You have to approve it or the user has to confirm her email address? Maybe you have to approve it because the lists Subscription Policy is Moderate. > 4) But I have to approve it.I assume this is because they do not yet have a real account. And they should be listed as a NON MEMBER? No. They will be a member, they just will not have a Django account that they can log in to. > 5) But even when they sign up here: https://list.tokyoprogressive.org/accounts/signup/?next=%2Fpostorius%2Flist… they get an email from my provider (NOT MY LIST????) as follows: > > "Hello from mailman3.emwd.com! You're receiving this e-mail because user iCloud has given yours as an e-mail address to connect their account. > To confirm this is correct, go to https://list.tokyoprogressive.org/accounts/confirm-email/MTE3:1iA44k:E7w7xh… Thank you from mailman3.emwd.com! mailman3.emwd.com" Because when you create a Django account, you have to confirm your email address. > 6) And this is where it gets weird. If they send from their email program and get the welcome (Welcome to the "Discuss" mailing list! > To post to this list, send your email to: discuss(a)list.tokyoprogressive.org You can unsubscribe or make adjustments to your options via email by > sending a message to....... I then get a notice: > > "Your mail to 'discuss(a)list.tokyoprogressive.org' with the subject test notice Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. The message is being held because: The message is not from a list member" What is Message Acceptance -> Default action to take when a member posts to the list ? You get the notice or the user gets the notice? > 7) While if they send FROM THE interface it goes through. > > 8) What I am confused about. > > Signing up for an account should make them a member, right? Subscribing should make them a non member, no? Signing up for an account is just signing up for a Django account. You can sign up for an account and log in and then subscribe to the list. Subscribing makes one a member whether or not you subscribe from a logged in account or subscribe without creating an account. > But here it seems that both make them a non member. If an address which is not a member posts to the list, that address becomes a non-member. This is the only way other than being explicitly added by an admin that an address becomes a non-member. > And worse, someone with an account sending from the Interface has their message get through while the same person sending from an email program has me get a notice that a non member is trying to post. If by sending from the interface, you mean posting via hyperkitty, the user must have an account and be logged in to do that. Your "same person" may have multiple entities within Mailman, possibly subtly different email addresses, one of which is a member and one of which isn't. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: How to disable global templates for all lists

by Mark Sapiro

On 3/13/24 16:28, christopher.claus(a)tgcamberg1848.de wrote: > Hallo togeher, > > I´m using the docker version from maxking and mailman core-version 3.3.9. I was wondering why there were messages in the list with "non-configured" footers. I found the files >> > mailman-core:/opt/mailman# find / -name "*list:member:*" > /usr/lib/python3.11/site-packages/mailman/templates/de/list:member:generic:footer.txt > /usr/lib/python3.11/site-packages/mailman/templates/de/list:member:digest:masthead.txt > /usr/lib/python3.11/site-packages/mailman/templates/ca/list:member:generic:footer.txt > /usr/lib/python3.11/site-packages/mailman/templates/ca/list:member:digest:masthead.txt > /usr/lib/python3.11/site-packages/mailman/templates/nl/list:member:generic:footer.txt > > but I found no option to disable them. How can I disable these global list-configuration? First, those are only a few. The default English templates are templates/en/list:member:digest:masthead.txt templates/en/list:member:generic:footer.txt templates/en/list:member:digest:header.txt templates/en/list:member:regular:header.txt and there are translations of them in many more than the de, ca and nl languages. The default English list:member:digest:header.txt and list:member:regular:header.txt are empty so most languages do not translate them. You can't disable them other than removing them, but you don't want to do that as these are only used as fall back in cases where there is no list, domain or site specific template. If you have messages delivered that use one of the default templates, it's because you don't have a custom template that matches the context for that message. When a template is required, first the template table in the database is searched for a template matching the list, domain or site context. If no match is found, the file system is searched as described at https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/blob/master/src/mailman/utilities/i18n… -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

1 year, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Finding a user to delete them

by Allan Hansen

The Django Admin Interface is better, but it also does not give a full picture of a member, as it does not show the lists that member is a member of. MM2 had that feature, which was very useful. When I heard of MM3 supporting ‘users’ as opposed to ’subscribers’, I was expecting an interface that was ‘user’ centered, both at the user level and at the admin level. As a site admin I don’t have a way to get a comprehensive view of a user account (attached email addresses, subscribed lists, etc.). Yours, Allan Hansen hansen(a)rc.org > On Mar 13, 2020, at 8:50 , Quanah Gibson-Mount <quanah(a)symas.com> wrote: > > > > --On Friday, March 13, 2020 9:41 AM -0700 Abhilash Raj <maxking(a)asynchronous.in> wrote: > >> dump_json is a documentation helper method which doesn't do much except >> calling the URL and dumping the returned json in a pretty-printed fashion. >> >> https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/documentation.h >> tml > > The point is more that the documentation at this URL: > > <https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/model/docs/usermanager…> > > makes repeated use of the dump_list function, and while it shows you a variety of bits to import, it doesn't include the bits necessary to make use of dump_list, so if one is going off the documentation, all they get is errors. > > But really, the documentation needs to be updated further to point out the the Django ADMIN INTERFACE as the best way to do user management, and not the python shell. > > --Quanah > > > -- > > Quanah Gibson-Mount > Product Architect > Symas Corporation > Packaged, certified, and supported LDAP solutions powered by OpenLDAP: > <http://www.symas.com> > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/

5 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman, etc. upgrade woes and persistent bugs

by Jim Popovitch

On Sat, 2021-02-13 at 10:40 -0500, Brian Carpenter wrote: > On 2/13/21 10:37 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-users wrote: > > On Sat, 2021-02-13 at 08:01 -0500, Brian Carpenter wrote: > > > Features are not the only thing about a modern UI, UX design plays a > > > MAJOR role in the modern UI. Postorius should have at least matched MM2 > > > in features in regards to something as important as Member management > > > but instead it took a step back into the dark ages. > > I'm gonna be a dick and remind you that less than 1 year ago you were > > trying to convince me that MM3 was a gift from god and that it was time > > for me to jump from MM2 to MM3 because it was sooo easy and such a time > > saver.. or something like that. The point being, you yourself just > > still aren't happy with MM3. Welcome to the club. > > I am very happy with MM3 just not with Postorius. MM3 allowed me to come > up with my own admin interface. Mailman 2 would never allowed me to do > that. So please leave your Mailman 2 bondage and come over to Mailman 3. > We have cookies! But how do you display a "Membership List page" for admins in MM3 (choice of wording is specific to other emails you've posted today) without third-party application(s), and isn't that too a shortcoming in MM3 due to that functionality being present in MM2? Look, without a doubt the REST API of MM3 Core is cool, but let's be honest, all the 3rd party wrapping and baggage is, well, not so cool. But, again being honest, you can't have a MM3 system without all of those things. With MM2 we have all those things, and we are happy with them. :) -Jim P.

4 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] How to process emails with Mailman3?

by Kyle Lahnakoski

Good day! I am setting up an email list for my local community (just myself right now). Being a nerd, I am using Amazon SES to send and receive emails. I have mailman installed on ec2 (using "pip install mailman") and it is working well enough to send an email to the list with /opt/mailman/venv/bin/mailman inject -f <somefile>all(a)mymaillist.org SES is putting incoming mail into an S3 bucket, one file per email. Using a small python program, I use the above command to send them to the list. When I add a user (like myself) I get a welcome email from all-request(a)mymaillist.org. When I respond, the mail arrives in the S3 bucket, but I do not know how to give it to mailman3. The "inject" command will not work because there is no "all-request" mailing list. How do I feed these administrative mails to mailman3? Thank you. ----- I have tried netcat the email to the ?LMTP? port, but it fails: (venv) [ec2-user@ip-10-0-3-253 mailman]$ nc localhost 8024 < /tmp/pbTw1oqmV1rZtHXV707Jcov264hr 220 ip-10-0-3-253.ec2.internal GNU Mailman LMTP runner 2.0 500 Error: command "RECEIVED-SPF:" not recognized 500 Error: command "AUTHENTICATION-RESULTS:" not recognized 500 Error: command "" not recognized 500 Error: command "" not recognized 502 5.5.1 Too many unrecognized commands, goodbye. here is what the first few lines of an email file look like. (Some values have been changed) Received-SPF: pass (spfCheck: domain of lahnakoski.com designates 8.8.8.8 as permitted sender) client-ip=8.8.8.8;envelope-from=kyle(a)lahnakoski.com; helo=cichlid.ash.relay.mailchannels.net; Authentication-Results: amazonses.com; spf=pass (spfCheck: domain of lahnakoski.com designates 8.8.8.8 as permitted sender) client-ip=8.8.8.8;envelope-from=kyle(a)lahnakoski.com; helo=cichlid.ash.relay.mailchannels.net; dkim=failheader.i=(a)lahnakoski.com; dmarc=none header.from=lahnakoski.com; Return-Path:<kyle(a)lahnakoski.com> Received: from cichlid.ash.relay.mailchannels.net (cichlid.ash.relay.mailchannels.net [8.8.8.8]) by fips.wmjb.mail-manager-smtp.amazonaws.com with ESMTPS id p78l98r6nfp05h5lbb24phnsrovpcomu57smml81 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) for<all-request(a)mymaillist.org>; Sun, 09 Mar 2025 15:13:30 +0000 (UTC) ...

4 months, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Installing mailman 3

by Rafael Mora

Hello Abhilash, I have this in my settings.py file: EMAIL_BACKEND = 'django.core.mail.backends.smtp.EmailBackend' EMAIL_HOST = 'localhost' EMAIL_PORT = 25 #EMAIL_HOST_USER = 'mailing(a)labbrands.com' #EMAIL_HOST_PASSWORD = '******' What should I use in user and password?? Does Django use postfix to send the email??? Thanks El mar., 1 ago. 2017 a las 16:20, Abhilash Raj (<raj.abhilash1(a)gmail.com>) escribió: > Hi, > > > > On Tue, Aug 1, 2017, at 02:11 PM, Rafael Mora wrote: > > It's ok now, but still I can't make it send the confirmation email > > > > This is from mailman.log: > > > > > > [mailman@localhost logs]$ tail -f mailman.log > > Aug 01 15:59:18 2017 (2327) lmtp runner started. > > Aug 01 15:59:18 2017 (2333) virgin runner started. > > Aug 01 15:59:18 2017 (2332) retry runner started. > > Aug 01 15:59:18 2017 (2330) pipeline runner started. > > Aug 01 15:59:18 2017 (2325) command runner started. > > Aug 01 15:59:19 2017 (2328) nntp runner started. > > Aug 01 15:59:19 2017 (2326) in runner started. > > Aug 01 16:01:38 2017 (2331) 127.0.0.1 - - "GET > > /3.0/lists?count=0&page=1&advertised=true HTTP/1.1" 200 90 > > Aug 01 16:01:38 2017 (2331) 127.0.0.1 - - "GET > > /3.0/lists?count=10&page=1&advertised=true HTTP/1.1" 200 90 > > Aug 01 16:01:38 2017 (2331) 127.0.0.1 - - "GET /3.0/domains HTTP/1.1" 200 > > 90 > > > > > > > > > > What should I do? > > If you are talking about Account confirmation emails, they usually are > sent out from Django and not Mailman Core itself. > > To configure Django you need to edit the `settings.py` file, wherever > that is one your installation. If you are following the guide mentioned > at http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/prodsetup.html, it should be at > `mailman-suite/mailman-suite_project/settings.py`. > > To configure your Django to send emails, have a look at > > http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-web.html#setting-up-email-required > . > > That documentation page has pretty much everything you need in order to > have a running Web Frontend, please go through it and make sure you have > everything configured. > > Finally, the actual emails from Mailing lists are supposed to be handled > by Core. You need to configure Postorius & Mailman both to communicate. > The settings are mentioned > http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-core.html#configuring-mta > here. > > > Hope that helps! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > El mar., 1 ago. 2017 a las 15:36, Mark Sapiro (<mark(a)msapiro.net>) > > escribió: > > > > > On 8/1/17 1:14 PM, Rafael Mora wrote: > > > > > > > > Why does it say Address already in use? > > > > > > > > > Because you are starting lm tp runner and it's already running. > > > > > > Do 'mailman stop'. Then ensure no Mailman processes are running. kill > > > any if necessary. Then do 'mailman start'. > > > > > > -- > > > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > > > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mailman-users mailing list > > > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > > > > -- > > > > Atentamente / Best Regards > > > > Ing. Rafael Mora > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-users mailing list > > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > > -- > thanks, > Abhilash Raj > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- Atentamente / Best Regards Ing. Rafael Mora

8 years

[MM3-users]Re: mailman 2 vs. mailman 3: what happened to multipart/digest?

by John Hein

Here's an '02 reference in git to the some heritage for multipart/digest ========== commit 63d2568fe58333f8ca0b7582f74b43e775c581cd Author: bwarsaw <> Date: Thu Jul 11 22:14:25 2002 +0000 send_i18n_digests(): Let's generate MIME digests the correct way, by wrapping each message inside the multipart/digest in a MIMEMessage instance. We also no longer need to initialize the mimedigest instance's payload to the empty list. Also, when sending the digests, be sure to include isdigest=1 in the metadata, otherwise SMTPDirect will try to tack on another footer. ========== John wrote at 16:46 -0600 on May 12, 2016: > Mark Sapiro wrote at 12:18 -0700 on May 12, 2016: > > On 5/12/16 9:16 AM, John wrote: > > > Digest delivery in mailman 2 encapsulated the individual message/rfc822 messages in a multipart/digest container. This allowed email clients to show the messages in the particular digest in a threaded view. > > > > > > This format vs. plain text digests was a user option in Mailman 2. > > > > > > > It seems like the various digest options that I have tried [1] in mailman 3.1.0 (as implemented for the fedora-users mailing list) no longer encapsulate messages in multipart/digest. > > > > > > The core still supports the same plain text and MIME format digests and > > the same individual subscriber and per-list default formats as did > > Mailman 2. The issue is none of these things are exposed in Postorius. > > > > If you subscribe to digests on this list, you will receive the > > 'encapsulated' MIME format because the lists mime_is_default_digest > > setting is True, but currently that has to be set through the > > bin/mailman shell tool. > > > > > > > Is this intentional? Is it a bug - feature that was lost in translation from 2 to 3? Is there a delivery option I'm missing that will turn that back on? > > Thanks for the info - and Barry's reply as well. I understand that > MIME digests are supported in Mailman 3 - that's what I'm using (and > thanks, Barry, for the info that Summary Digests is the same right > now). My quibble is that the multipart/digest encapsulation level is > gone. > > Barry Warsaw wrote at 15:16 -0400 on May 12, 2016: > > The MIME format of MIME digests should roughly be: > > > > multipart/mixed > > text/plain (the digest heading) > > text/plain (the TOC) > > message/rfc822 > > message-1 > > message/rfc822 > > message-2 > > ... > > text/plain (footer) > > > But mm 2 had: > > multipart/mixed > text/plain (the digest heading) > text/plain (the TOC) > multipart/digest <--- this is the part that's gone in mm3 > message/rfc822 > message-1 > message/rfc822 > message-2 > ... > text/plain (footer) > > So was that removal intentional, a bug or ?? > > Maybe you're saying there is definitely an unexposed (in Postorius) > knob for that in mm3. > > > > > It is the intent that Postorius will eventually expose all these > > settings. We're not there yet. At present you could possibly do this by > > interacting with mailmanclient, although I'm not certain the settings > > are exposed there. You can do it via bin/mailman shell if you have > > access and know what you're doing (see > > <http://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/release-3.0/src/mailman/runners/docs/diges…>) > > > > If you file an issue at > > <https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/issues/new>, it might help > > expedite this. > > Okay. > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/

9 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: MM3 occasionally chokes (?)

by Abhilash Raj

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 10:13 AM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 9:46 AM, Dmitry Makovey wrote: > > Thanks for fast response Abhilash! > > > > See inline for responses: > > > > On 3/18/19 9:24 AM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 9:14 AM, Dmitry Makovey wrote: > > >> In the last couple of month we've observed some odd behavior from MM3 > > >> (namely the core) where it seems like email that is about to be sent to > > >> a large-ish mailing list (10K users) has been processed yet never gets > > >> sent out until we restart the core. > > > > > > This is indeed weird, I don't think 10k is too much, but it also depends > > > on your MTA. How fast do they allow sending emails and if there is any > > > rate limiting. > > > > I'm using Mailu.io for MTA. We're controlling it so there's not much > > throttling as I've whitelisted mailman to send anything over LMTP. > > Mailman sends out email using SMTP and receives it from MTA using LMTP. > > > > > > I wouldn't necessarily consider this a performance problem in Core, > > > since it is still just processing only one email. All it needs to do is > > > send them all out, which is where the problem should be. > > > > inferred assumption is that mailman-core loses LMTP connection with > > Mailu stack. but then upon restart of service it regains it? > > Mailman acts as am SMTP client sending out emails via MTA. AFAIK, > Mailman 3 recycles SMTP connections after certain number of emails are > sent out. > > You can configure how many emails are sent-out per-connection and > when should each connection be recycled. You can also disable the > recycling altogether and always keep a connection open to the MTA. > See [1] here for detailed docs. > > [1]: > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/mta/docs/connection.ht… > > Again, copying from the docs, these are some extra MTA related settings > that you may want to change: > > --- > # Ceiling on the number of recipients that can be specified in a single SMTP > # transaction. Set to 0 to submit the entire recipient list in one > # transaction. > max_recipients: 500 > > # Ceiling on the number of SMTP sessions to perform on a single socket > # connection. Some MTAs have limits. Set this to 0 to do as many as we like > # (i.e. your MTA has no limits). Set this to some number great than 0 and > # Mailman will close the SMTP connection and re-open it after this number of > # consecutive sessions. > max_sessions_per_connection: 0 > > # Maximum number of simultaneous subthreads that will be used for SMTP > # delivery. After the recipients list is chunked according to max_recipients, > # each chunk is handed off to the SMTP server by a separate such thread. If > # your Python interpreter was not built for threads, this feature is disabled. > # You can explicitly disable it in all cases by setting max_delivery_threads > # to 0. > max_delivery_threads: 0 > --- > > max_sessions_per_connection is by default set to 0, so that shouldn't be > causing any problems. > > For a list of 10k members with `max_delivery_threads` set to to > default(500), I meant, max_recipients set to default (500). > Mailman could be sequentially sending out emails in 20 (10k/500) > connections, which > could be causing the delay that you see. > > You could increase the threads or if your MTA can handle it, set the > max_delivery_threads > to 20 and see if that helps? > > > > > > I'd imagine debug logging on outgoing runner should give some more > > > pointers on what is going on. > > > > > > You can configure the smtp runner to log extra information (copied from > > > docs)[1] > > > > > > [1]: > > > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/config/docs/config.html > > > > awesome - I'll give it a go. thanks for the pointer. > > > > > I'd also recommend looking into MTA logs for anything un-usual. > > > > we briefly did , but nothing stood out. > > > > >> troubleshooting/digging before I just restart the core (which by the way > > >> takes about 45min to fully start... which is another puzzle to solve at > > > > > > How do you measure that it takes 45 mins to start? > > > > normally it's "docker ps" command output along with "docker top" so once > > I see all the sub-processes kicked off I'm assuming core is started and > > from that point it's anywhere between 35 and 45min before I can get any > > *response* from core (i.e. mailman-web complains, REST commands fail, etc.) > > Maybe we should discuss this in another thread? REST Runner (and other runners) > shouldn't be taking this long to boot up. > > > > > > What database backend are you using? > > > > Postgres. The whole setup is docker-setup (0.1.7 version of containers > > at this point). > > > > > > -- > > Sr System and DevOps Engineer SoM IRT > > > > > > Attachments: > > * signature.asc > > -- > thanks, > Abhilash Raj (maxking) -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

6 years, 4 months

[Test] Re: What now -reply from web

by Simon Hanna

On 03/21/2016 03:36 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 03/20/2016 07:22 PM, mailman(a)mailman3.org wrote: >> The last post with SSL = True and latest core still hits the same >> underlying exception both in trying to get the archive URL and in >> trying to archive the message. The core now handles these exceptions >> and continues so the message goes to the list, but isn't archived and >> has no archive headers. >> >> This is a post from hyperkitty which will probably be handled the >> same, so we have to go back to SSL = False until we can fix the >> certificate issue. > > > Yes. > > Bottom line. With USE_SSL = True, core connects to hyperkitty via SSL to > 127.0.0.1 and the certificates I installed don't include 127.0.0.1 in > their domains, so urllib3 or requests (depending on where we're coming > from) throws SSLError: hostname '127.0.0.1' doesn't match either of > 'lists.mailman3.org', 'mirror.list.org', 'mirror.mailman3.org'. > > The core now handles the exceptions and the message is ultimately > delivered but not archived. regardless of where it originated. > > We're back to USE_SSL = False now so this post should be archived, > albeit the archive URLs will have 127.0.0.1 ast the host and not > lists.mailman3.org. IMHO you shouldn't use USE_SSL at all. It just redirects to ssl pages on certain urls in hyperkitty. What you should be doing is having your webserver (nginx, apache, ...) redirect all trafic from http to https. I'm doing this and have the following settings: # django settings USE_SSL = False # Put external IP in this tuple MAILMAN_ARCHIVER_FROM = ('x.x.x.x', '127.0.0.1', '::1') # hyperkitty archiver plugin # this is the url to the base page of hyperkitty # in your case this would be # base_url: https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/ base_url: https://example.com/hyperkitty/ It's working like a charm with no errors at all

9 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character

by Mark Sapiro

On 12/12/19 12:42 AM, Marvin Gülker wrote: > > But I now have a different problem. I've removed all offending messages > (it were more than just one that caused the UnicodeEncodeError), but I > still can't access the page for the held messages queue. It gives an > error 500, now with a different exception in the log. I've included it > below. It looks to me that the messages haven't properly been deleted. They have, but I apologize - more is required. > What I did was this: for each offending message hash > > 1. I ran the DELETE query > 2. I deleted the file from the file system > 3. I ran the delete_message() function > > I originally wanted to run only the delete_message() function, but a > quick check on the DB and the file system after running it for one hash > told me that it neither deletes the message from the DB nor from the > file system. The argument for delete_message() is not the hash, it is the <message-id> including the angle brackets. So I did everything at once. I do have a backup of both the > DB and the filesystem from before I started this, in case this broke > something. > > Is there something left that I have to do now? Yes, my bad for not realizing this. There are still references to these messages in the _request table. The columns in that table are id | key | request_type | data_hash | mailing_list_id key is the <message-id> of the request message request_type is 1 for a held message mailing_list_id is a numeric index into the mailinglist table The issue is there are still held message requests there for the messages you removed. You need to delete those entries from the _request table. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: The paradox of VERP probe messages

by Mark Sapiro

On 1/28/25 13:04, Jeremy Stanley wrote: > tl;dr: Is there a way to have VERP probe messages not include copies > of the bounce message that triggered them? Currently you'd need to patch code. This would do it. ``` --- a/src/mailman/model/bounce.py +++ b/src/mailman/model/bounce.py @@ -231,7 +231,7 @@ class BounceProcessor: # Try to get the dsn from the message store. It should be there. msg = getUtility(IMessageStore).get_message_by_id(event.message_id) if as_boolean(config.mta.verp_probes): - send_probe(member, msg=msg, message_id=event.message_id) + send_probe(member, message_id=event.message_id) action = 'sending probe' else: # Bounce score is reset by sending a probe but needs to be ``` You could submit an issue at https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/new to make this configurable. ... > This behavior raises a more significant concern as well. The MTA on > the Mailman server in this case (Exim if it matters) wants to > perform batch deliveries when there are multiple subscribers who all > share the same remote MTAs. If multiples of those reject a list > post, then the NDR back to Mailman aggregates those multiple > rejections into a single message. If that incident triggers a VERP > probe, the bulk NDR enumerating the addresses of all the subscribers > who were rejected gets forwarded along as part of the VERP probe, > disclosing a potentially sensitive litany of random subscriber > addresses to other subscribers within that batch. I don't know > whether this is a misconfiguration, or an unintended consequence of > the intersection of Mailman and MTA features. I'm sure you can configure Exim to not do that. For Postfix it's ``` smtp_destination_recipient_limit = 1 ``` Also if you configure Mailman to VERP all deliveries ``` [mta] verp_confirmations: yes verp_personalized_deliveries: yes verp_delivery_interval: 1 ``` each recipient will be sent separately with a different envelope sender so the MTA can't combine them. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

6 months

[MM3-users] Re: Why is a mailing list not sending the moderator subscribe or post notifications?

by Odhiambo Washington

On Wed, Jun 14, 2023 at 9:37 AM Mark London <mrl(a)psfc.mit.edu> wrote: > Hi - I migrated from mailman 2 to mailman 3. All but one list is > working correctly. > > That list is not sending the moderator any emails. It appears to > configured exactly like the other lists. > > I.e. subscription requests and moderated users posts don't generate any > emails to the moderator (me). > > I tried changing moderator email addresses, and everything else I could > think of, but nothing worked. > > What can I do to debug this problem? > Before going into hallucination, I would send an email to that list from a non-member and look at my MTAs as well as mailman log to see what happens. > This list is much larger than any of my other lists. And has a huge > archive. I doubt that is a factor, but I’ll mention it anyway. > Hyperkitty deals with the archiving aspect. Mailman core handles the mailing aspects. > Also, how do I run the command to remind me of awaiting moderation > requests, so that I can run it hourly? In case this can’t be fixed quickly. > mailman notify -l listname@domain -v [From the virtualenv, you can run mailman --help. All supplied arguments can also be running with --help to disclose further available options] > As an aside, I had some mailman 2 lists that had no moderators. I could > swear that for them, that the owners would get moderated requests. Am I > hallucinating? I can't check the old server any longer. Thanks. > > – Mark > The Big "Mark" will respond to that :) -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]

2 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Help with some 'withlist' configuration changes

by Mark Sapiro

On 6/23/21 6:30 AM, David Partain via Mailman-users wrote: > Hi, > > Firstly, a repeat that I have a relatively broken (and soon to be fixed, I hope) installation of mailman3 based on Ubuntu 18.04 distrib packages (3.1.1-9) that stumbles along by me dealing with a bunch of things by hand that I hope'll go away once I'm up to the current version. > > In this set-up, I get a fair number of items shunted. Since I have this wonky version where stuff isn't always exposed in the web interface, I have to fix these things by hand. An example is that something gets shunted because of too many recipients, where I do: > > sudo -u list mailman withlist somemailmanlist > m.max_num_recipients = 0 > commit() > sudo -u list mailman unshunt > > I've managed to find a number of these, such as m.max_message_size, m.require_explicit_destination, and m.administrivia. There is some other issue here as these things should only cause a message to be held, not shunted. Some exception is being thrown in the process of holding the messgage, and thaty is the real issue. What are the tracebacks in Mailman's mailman.log for these shunts? > My questions are undoubtedly foolish, but here goes: > > 1. Is there any way to print the entire 'm' structure? If so, I'd perhaps be able to figure out the answers to my other questions. dir(m) or maybe you want >>> for x in dir(m): ... if not x.startswith('_'): ... print(f'{x}: {m.__getattribute__(x)}') ... > 2. Is there a way for me to correct the following shunt-ing issues with 'withlist'? I've been unable to figure out how... > > a. 'moderation_reasons': [ 'Message has no subject'] / 'rule_hits': ['no-subject'] > > b. Some things get caught as 'rule_hits': ['nonmember-moderation']. However, if I look in the (web-based) config, it shows that non-members should be accepted but the messages are shunted nonetheless. I don't know what to look for in 'm' or how I might clear these messages. As I note above, these things are reasons to hold the message. The shunting occurs because something is going wrong in the holding process. Find the errors and tracebacks in Mailman's mailman.log to see what the real issue might be. > 3. I have no idea what these are telling me to do about digest messages. Suggestions? This is the entire info I get from 'mailman qfile': > > ------------------------------------------------------snip snip---------------------------------------------- > [----- start pickle -----] > <----- start object 1 -----> > > <----- start object 2 -----> > { '_parsemsg': False, > 'digest_number': 457, > 'digest_path': '/var/lib/mailman3/lists/somelist/digest.31.457.mmdf', > 'lang': 'en', > 'listid': 'somelistid', > 'version': 3, > 'volume': 31, > 'whichq': 'digest'} > [----- end pickle -----] > ------------------------------------------------------snip snip---------------------------------------------- That is telling you there was in issue in sending the digest, the mailbox for which is /var/lib/mailman3/lists/somelist/digest.31.457.mmdf. Unshunting that will retry sending that digest. > 4. I have some that have 'rule_hits': [] (it's empty) but are shunted nonetheless. I can't see anything weird other than one of the messages has a utf-8 subject. Any ideas? > > 5. Some messages that were sent to -request addresses (e.g., subscribe messages, confirm, approve messages) are being shunted. What should I do with these? You need to find the errors in the log and figure out what the underlying issue is. I'm guessing it's a permissions issue, possibly because of having at one time rum `mailman start` as root causing files to be created and owned by root and not be readable/writable by the Mailman user. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Permission Denied "/opt/mailman/mm/var/archives/..."

by Stephen J Turnbull

This is a little old, but I don't see any reply or "problem solved." Peter Knowles writes: > I am writing my own archive reader script in PHP which parses the > "maildir" content produced by the "prototype" archiver. > > When I try to access the contents from > "opt/mailman/mm/var/archives/prototype/LISTNAME/new" folder I get a > permission denied error. FYI, this is a OS issue, not a Mailman issue. The contents of that directory are probably owned by list:list (that's owner:group) on Debian-derived systems or mailman:mailman is also commonly seen. To find out the relevant users and groups, do 'ls -lR | less' on the archive from the top. I recommend a recursive ls because I've seen situations where the files are in fact readable, but the directory path is not searchable. In that case adding the +x bit to every directory on the path to 'new' will do the trick.[1] The problem is that the users invoking your script are not that user or group. If the script will be invoked from the web server, you may want to add the web browser user (often www-data) to the mailman group. If this will be invoked by a variety of users, you might prefer to make the script set gid list (or mailman or whatever. The two approaches have slightly different security implications. > *** I'm using the "file_get_contents" PHP command to access the > file. *** This isn't relevant. Any access to the file would run into the same problem. Footnotes: [1] For you technical geeks, it was a tightass umask of 0x7 for user home creation by root, while the mailman user was a more permissive 022. YMMV, I think that's paranoid. -- University of Tsukuba　　　　　　　　　　　　 Faculty of Policy and Planning Sciences Tennodai 1-1-1, Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN tel/fax: +81-29-853-5091 turnbull(a)sk.tsukuba.ac.jp 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　https://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/

2 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman, etc. upgrade woes and persistent bugs

by Andreas Barth

* Stephen J. Turnbull (turnbull.stephen.fw(a)u.tsukuba.ac.jp) [210217 09:54]: > Ruth Ivimey-Cook writes: > > > What I mean by per-user permissions is that some transitions, for > > example bounce-disabled to enabled, should be only possible by someone > > with appropriate permission to do so > > Right. So what you mean is "ok, we have group permissions, and maybe > someday there will be a case for ACLs down to arbitrary subsets of the > user population," but you don't have a concrete use case for arbitrary > ACLs at the moment. > > BTW, I'm fine with that. Normally I'd take mere intuition of somebody > like Brian (who interacts with large numbers of admins, and probably > subscribers too) as a strong argument for at least experimental > implementation, but I see anything more complex than the current > system as likely to be a huge mess and developer time sink > indefinitely, unless we keep it to the minimum necessary feature set. I definitly have a usecase for that, but: currently other priorities :) (I had to do an ad-hoc takeover of lots of infrastructure in my spare time within an volunteer organisation including mailing lists, so getting wishlist itmes done is not my top priority at the moment.) Just from the top of my head, for example I want to differentiate between private, member and public lists. So if a member logs in, they see more lists than a non-member. This is currently not possible, not too big a deal (all member lists are currently configured as private) but of course would be nice. Also archiv access should be aligned with these permissions. So, if/when I start working on it, I would try to incorporate upstream whatever makes sense, and that includes discussing the concepts early here. Of course the appropriate split between private changes and public changes is also something which might need some discussions. Andi

4 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman 3 deployment: ok to use same database instance for core, web, and hyperkitty tables?

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Andrew Hodgson writes: > Are there any performance benchmarks for running MySQL vs > PostGreSQL? I think the Mailman devs like PostgreSQL because it tries harder to be a theoretically-correct RDBMS and because there was a mild stink of closed source around MySQL at one point. I recently saw a claim that PostgreSQL is now more performant than MySQL on some standard SQL benchmarks, but I don't have a cite so take that as a weak statement. (May have been a Xeet from the PostgreSQL devs. ;-) I don't think there's a big difference either way. AFAIK there are only a few subqueries and joins in the normal Mailman workload and they're all reasonably optimized by both RDBMSes. I've not heard anybody complain of the DB performance as such. > Its worth noting this is more difficult to do now on Debian/Ubuntu > installs as Python2 has been removed. This was something I ran into > myself when trying to co-exist both installs on the same box. Mark has Python 3 versions of the archive cleaning tools in his contrib directory. We didn't need a Python 2 installation, we just rsync'ed the mboxes across. I do recommend using a tool to break large archives into smaller mboxes (our case was monthly anyway, but there were a few 10GB+ months in there that took many hours), and keep good logs. We had a "pulled the wrong plug" incident and recovering the archives from that was painful even though we had a pretty good idea of what was done and what wasn't. Ended up deleting a couple of posts from the HyperKitty archive and deleting half the posts in the list/month mbox in question and everything worked, but it was scary and being sure of everything we had and didn't have was tedious. Steve

1 year, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: trying to clean up the "held messages" mess

by Bjoern Franke

Hi, > > What exceptions? Note that there is a lot of cleanup in the as yet > unreleased core 3.3.5. You might consider installing that. To do so, in > your virtualenv as the Mailman user do the exception was: 2021-05-27 21:56:25 [FALCON] [ERROR] GET /3.1/lists/nordwest(a)lists.ffnw.de/held?count=10&page=1 => Traceback (most recent call last): File "falcon/app.py", line 361, in falcon.app.App.__call__ File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/mailman/rest/post_moderation.py", line 174, in on_get resource = self._make_collection(request) File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/mailman/rest/helpers.py", line 182, in _make_collection entries = [as_dict(resource) for resource in collection] File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/mailman/rest/helpers.py", line 182, in <listcomp> entries = [as_dict(resource) for resource in collection] File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/mailman/rest/post_moderation.py", line 165, in _resource_as_dict assert resource is not None, resource AssertionError: None > ``` > pip install --upgrade git+https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman > ``` Thanks, I've upgraded to 3.3.5b1. > > The exceptions you see are because entries are missing from the pended, > pendedkeyvalue and/or message tables. > The exceptions are gone after the upgrade and May 28 18:48:57 2021 (18041) task runner started. May 28 18:48:57 2021 (18041) Task runner evicted 70 expired pendings May 28 18:49:11 2021 (18041) Task runner deleted 77 orphaned workflows May 28 18:49:11 2021 (18041) Task runner deleted 76 orphaned requests May 28 18:49:25 2021 (18041) Task runner deleted 71 orphaned messages May 28 18:49:25 2021 (18041) Task runner evicted expired cache entries But since the upgrade from 3.2.1 to 3.3.x the list owners are spammed with ---- some.listmember(a)domain.tld's subscription has been disabled on nordwest(a)lists.ffnw.de due to their bounce score exceeding the mailing list's bounce_score_threshold. The triggering DSN if available is attached. --- and list members get corresponding notifications, but it seems Postfix did not create any bounces for them. I did not find any related bug report yet, but maybe I missed something. Best Regards Bjoern

4 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: rest api runner not running

by Mark Sapiro

On 3/27/21 5:13 AM, Christine wrote: > Hi, > I have been using mailman for about ten years, now I want to move the > lists to another server, I have installed mailman3 there, most of it > seems to be running, but the "rest api runner" is not. Nothing is > listening on port 8001. What have I missed? What do I do to start the > restapi runner? I checked the logs, I don't see anything suspicious. > > this is what systemctl status says: > > root@lists:~# systemctl status mailman3 > ● mailman3.service - Mailman3 server > Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/mailman3.service; enabled; > vendor preset: enabled) > Active: failed (Result: timeout) since Sat 2021-03-27 12:04:06 UTC; > 6min ago > Docs: man:mailman(1) > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/ > Process: 173111 ExecStart=/usr/bin/mailman -C > /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg start --force (code=killed, signal=TERM) > > Mar 27 12:02:36 lists systemd[1]: Starting Mailman3 server... > Mar 27 12:04:06 lists systemd[1]: mailman3.service: start operation > timed out. Terminating. > Mar 27 12:04:06 lists systemd[1]: mailman3.service: Failed with result > 'timeout'. > Mar 27 12:04:06 lists systemd[1]: Failed to start Mailman3 server. Nothing is listening on port 8001 because apparently Mailman core failed to start. > There is nothing in mailman.log, nor in smtp.log What Mailman package is installed? Perhaps you should contact the packager for support. Can you run the mailman command manually, e.g. ``` sudo -u xxx mailman -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg ``` where `xxx` is the Mailman user which if I'm guessing correctly that this is a debian/ubuntu package, is `list`. Otherwise it might be `mailman`. That should just produce a list of `mailman` subcommands. If that works, try ``` sudo -u xxx mailman -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg info ``` and ``` sudo -u xxx mailman -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg start ``` and see what they produce. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: My Server is unable to connect to Mailman REST API few times

by Shashikanth Komandoor

Thank you a lot Stephen for your attempt to help me. In fact I got some info from your response. Aren't you the crew that modified Mailman to interface with SMS or > something like that? If so, don't worry, it doesn't invalidate your > warranty, but it seems possible that it has something to do with this: Yes. We have taken the source code of mailman and customised the software to send SMS notifications along with the mail notifications when any mail is waiting for the pending approval. But not sure if it is creating a problem. Whether you have that modified Mailman or not, the messages above > suggest that there may have been a change in the schema of the > database that one side (presumably SQLAlchemy) knows about but have > not been propagated to the other (PostgreSQL). Have you perhaps done > an upgrade but not run the database migration script? I have not done any upgrade of any component of the mailman. Something is taking too long, the worker is timing out. That's > probably why you get the REST API not available message. Do the > sqlalchemy errors correlate with the timeouts? I am unable to state if both are correlating with each other. Thanks for sending it; sometimes it speeds up debugging. But in this > case you say that other lists are working, so site configuration > doesn't seem to be the problem. Is this particular list special in > some way? List configuration is different? No. All the lists on the server are similarly configured. May be with different settings of list or list members. > > Does PostgreSQL have any logs with "interesting" (or scary) messages > in them? No, I don't find any messages in postgresql logs. It appears I may have sent you on a wild goose chase. You have my > apologies. I am very happy you spent your precious time working on my issue. I am working with Mark to diagnose the underlying problem. Thank you both for this. But I am trying to delete a list on an urgent basis. Because of which I am getting the above said errors. I tried to delete through the interface, through curl command and through "mailman shell" but nothing led me to a positive result. Is there any work around to delete the list ? <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 5:22 PM Stephen J. Turnbull < turnbull.stephen.fw(a)u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote: > Hi Shashikanth, > > It appears I may have sent you on a wild goose chase. You have my > apologies. There's a very similar report today, so this appears to be > a Mailman 3 issue. For now, pleasee see Mark's post for the correct > way to increase timeout: > > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… > > I am working with Mark to diagnose the underlying problem. > > Steve > > > Stephen J. Turnbull writes: > > Shashikanth Komandoor writes: > > > > > I am currently running Mailman 3 with version 3.3.1 and > in > > > built postfix version 2.10.1-6 on RHEL 7.5 with PostgreSQL 11.7 > version > > > with default values in production environment from the past 4 months > > > almost. As of now, we are having around 1327 lists created on this. > > > > Aren't you the crew that modified Mailman to interface with SMS or > > something like that? If so, don't worry, it doesn't invalidate your > > warranty, but it seems possible that it has something to do with this: > > > > > After the above configuration, I found many errors like below in > > > mailman.log file: > > > > > > *sqlalchemy.exc.NoSuchColumnError: "Could not locate column in row > for > > > column 'pended.id <http://pended.id>'"* > > > > > > *sqlalchemy.exc.ResourceClosedError: This result object does not > return > > > rows. It has been closed automatically.* > > > > > > *sqlalchemy.exc.DatabaseError: (psycopg2.DatabaseError) error with > status > > > PGRES_TUPLES_OK and no message from the libpq* > > > > Whether you have that modified Mailman or not, the messages above > > suggest that there may have been a change in the schema of the > > database that one side (presumably SQLAlchemy) knows about but have > > not been propagated to the other (PostgreSQL). Have you perhaps done > > an upgrade but not run the database migration script? > > > > About the REST API not available error: > > > > > Something went wrong > > > > > > Mailman REST API not available. Please start Mailman core. > > > > > > But my mailman core was working fine in the > background. At > > > the same time I was able to do other operations on a few other lists. > > > > > > By the time I am getting the above error, the > mailman.log > > > recorded the below messages. > > > > > > *[2020-09-16 12:49:08 +0530] [2600] [CRITICAL] WORKER TIMEOUT > (pid:20234)* > > > > > > *[2020-09-16 12:49:08 +0530] [20234] [INFO] Worker exiting (pid: > 20234)* > > > > > > *[2020-09-16 12:49:09 +0530] [21042] [INFO] Booting worker with pid: > 21042* > > > > Something is taking too long, the worker is timing out. That's > > probably why you get the REST API not available message. Do the > > sqlalchemy errors correlate with the timeouts? > > > > I suspect the exit and reboot of the worker is normal but I haven't > > looked at this part of the code. > > > > > My mailman.cfg configuration is as below. The timeout > > > value is the default value. I did not set any customized value. > > > > Thanks for sending it; sometimes it speeds up debugging. But in this > > case you say that other lists are working, so site configuration > > doesn't seem to be the problem. Is this particular list special in > > some way? List configuration is different? > > > > > The above might be few of the errors. FYI, for the creation of each > list, > > > it is taking almost around 15 to 20 minutes. After multiple times of > the > > > above error messages, at some time, I am fortunately getting the list > > > created or some other operation getting done. > > > > This is quite strange. I don't see why this would suddenly start > > working after many minutes. > > > > Does PostgreSQL have any logs with "interesting" (or scary) messages > > in them? > > > > Maybe somebody else has some ideas, but this is as far as I can go. > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > > > > -- Thanks & Regards, Shashi Kanth.K 9052671936 <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

4 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Displaying addresses in emails from a Mailman 3 installation

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Steve Brown writes: > Yes, I intended to post to the list. I now see that if I use the > archives to post (as I'm doing now), As Mark said, you posted via Gmail (first Received header plus lots of GoogleMail internal data). > I don't see any apple iCloud, Gmail, Yahoo, Hotmail users mostly use the webmail of the provider so their address is a very good clue to the capabilities of their MUAs, but Apple Mail is an app on the iPhone or Mac. You'd have to look at the content of the mail (sometimes there's a User-Agent header, or iPhones often have "sent from my iPhone" as a footer) to know that someone is using Apple Mail, just as you'd need to do a bit of header spelunking to find out that I use the VM application on XEmacs on Mac. I know a fair number of Gmail users who use Apple Mail on Mac rather than Google's webmail, and a very few who have Outlook addresses. Your academic users very likely include a high percentage of Apple Mail users. "Wrap" is known to have been problematic with iPhones, unclear about Apple Mail on Mac (but it's a good bet given Apple's penchant for reusing Mac code on iOS). Since "Munge From" is now the industry standard for dealing with sites that use DMARC reject policies, it wasn't worth it to check if Apple Mail improved over time. > so I suspect that using the archive for search or posting would > also seem like a PITA. Sure. We have to acknowledge that all of these suggestions are just workarounds for a fundamental issue with current email MUAs (specifically, defaulting to unsigned mail and depending on providers to authenticate). -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan

4 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Default values for lists in Mailman 3

by Mark Sapiro

On 9/19/24 05:46, Markus Grandpré wrote: > Dear list, > > I would like to activate the invitation setting for all lists as > default. In Mailman 2.1 I have done this in the file > </etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py>: > > > DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_OR_INVITE = Yes > > > How can I do this in Mailman 3? There is a draft merge request at https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/merge_requests/930 which implements a framework for setting Postorius defaults and creates a setting to set the default for pre-verified on the mass subscription page. Once merged, this can easily be extended to provide a default for Invitation. In the mean time, you can only do this by patching src/postorius/forms/list_forms.py like ``` --- a/src/postorius/forms/list_forms.py +++ b/src/postorius/forms/list_forms.py @@ -1283,7 +1283,7 @@ class ListMassSubscription(forms.Form): invitation = forms.BooleanField( label=_('Invitation'), - initial=False, + initial=True, required=False, help_text=_( 'If checked, the other checkboxes are ignored and the users will ' ``` > Can I also transfer other default values > like: > > ... > DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en' > DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 1 > DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_OR_INVITE = Yes > DEFAULT_PRIVATE_ROSTER = 2 > DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = Off > DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE = 1 > ... > > from the very same configuration file to Mailman 3? Is there a > documentation of the default values for lists in Mailman 3? This is done by creating a list style with the desired defaults. See https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/styles/doc… for documentation of styles and see https://gitlab.com/mailman/example-mailman-plugin for an example of creating a plugin in Mailman core to make a persistent style. There is no specific doc for the list settings. You need to look at https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/blob/master/src/mailman/styles/base.py for the various settings and https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/blob/master/src/mailman/styles/default… to see which default classes are applied for various styles. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

10 months, 2 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: How to prevent members to attach executables (exe, bat, ...) to the emails sent to list

by Mark Sapiro

On 9/30/20 9:25 AM, Mohsen Masoudfar wrote: > Hi, > > I am trying to find a way for content filtering to remove executables from the emails sent to the list. I found some hints under: > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/stable/build/lib/mailman/handlers/docs/fi… > > but still not clear how to do it for all type of excecutables. There are four list settings that affect this. They are pass_types, pass_extensions, filter_types and filter_extensions. the pass_* settings specify message parts the list will accept while the filter_* settings specify message parts the list won't accept. The page at <https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/stable/src/mailman/handlers/docs/filterin…> only discusses filter_types and needs updating for the others. Filtering by extension only works on message parts that have an associated file name. Thus, while you can add things like 'exe', 'bat', 'cmd', 'com', 'pif', 'scr', 'vbs' and 'cpl' to filter_extensions, it won't be completely effective. A better approach is to use MIME types[1] and only allow those you want. For a discussion list, a reasonable set is what this list uses: multipart message/rfc822 text application/pgp-signature This will accept any multipart and message/rfc822 parts for further analysis and ultimately accept only text/* and application/pgp-signature elemental parts. If you want to accept images and pdfs, you can add image application/pdf See <https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/media-types.xhtml> for a list of all registered MIME types. Note that these are all of the form main_type/sub_type and putting just main_type in *_types passes or filters all subtypes for that maintype. [1] You can use both, e.g. filter_extensions to remove those you don't want and pass_types to accept the MIME types you do want. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Settings for prevention of spam obfuscation

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Richard Rosner writes: > And yes, while there may be edge cases where these bad practices If you're willing to impose that judgment on your posters, just announce that you're going to start discarding posts that don't satisfy From alignment, give it a week, and start doing it. That will ensure that the Sender is always in the From field. No more, and no less. I wouldn't do it, but it's a perfectly effective way to achieve what you seem to believe is ideal. > And until someone can create an ML model that's not gobbling up > resources for training and that doesn't need thousands of emails to > train with, there's only so much you can do. SpamBayes has been around for decades.[1] It's not ChatGPT-level, but it also doesn't take "significant resources" or thousands of emails for training (your current spambucket and INBOX will be a decent start) and you can train it on the fly as mail comes in. The only resources required are a couple of hours to install it and learn how to feed ham and spam corpuses into it, and a few minutes every so often to feed increments of ham and spam to it. You can even avoid that amount of effort by feeding the spam and ham it outputs back into it.[2] Almost certainly you can plug it into rspamd. > While DKIM and DMARC are great, they are useless when the vast > majority of senders don't have any DKIM signatures. For ARC it's > not as uncommon to be present, but the situation isn't that much > better. Please stop. These claims are not going to pass on this list. We know better.[3] If you are in a special situation where they bear some resemblance to the truth, please explain. Maybe we can come up with a solution for that situation together. But they are wildly wrong in the context of Internet email in general. Look, Richard, spam is extremely frustrating to all of us. There's a lot of effort and talent that has gone into combatting spam, and a fair amount of knowledge about it has accumulated in the people who participate in Mailman lists. If you want help with the particular spam that's getting into your lists, we'll be happy to help (although help channels for your preferred filtering software might be more productive). But the way to get help is to explain what your problem is, and what you've done that isn't working, in some detail. You telling us how we can fix it in Mailman is almost always a non- starter. Either it's going to screw up the mail system with little anti-spam effect, or it's been tried and shown to be ineffective. It's certainly not persuasive if you haven't shown us what the problem is at a more granular level than "we all hate spam!" It's possible that we'll come back to your suggestion sooner or later. Sometimes there's no other way that's better. But that's quite rare. ;-) Footnotes: [1] In fact, I've recently seen the (otherwise unsupported ;-) claim that spam-filtering was the original motivation for ML research. :-) [2] This leads to overfitting and increased error rates after a while. YMMV. [3] For example, in my current spam-bucket, all of which I've eyeballed, there are 7519 Message-IDs and 9521 DKIM-Signatures. Of 206 messages from external sites in my now spam-free INBOX, there are 336 DKIM-Signatures. Since it's common to have more than one DKIM-Signature per message, that doesn't prove that essentially all of those messages are signed. But it sure seems likely! And ARC is much less common: 4903 ARC-Seals in spam, and 155 in INBOX.

1 year, 5 months

[MM3-users] Do you struggle with message rejected. AUP#CDRBL while using mailman with your ISP email relay?

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Michael Richardson writes: > My problem, on lists.sandelman.ca aka lists.tcpdump.org, is > messages that appear to have been processed by my MTA (according to > postfix logs), but which are never delivered, nor held. Lost > somewhere in mailman3 queue. Sometimes they show up after a host > reboot. The queues are implemented the same way mail queues have been implemented since the Neolithic Era: save a file to disk, report success to the previous hop, then try to send its content to the next hop. If that succeeds, delete the file. If it does not, either send back a failure notice and delete the file, or hold the file for a later retry, depending on why it failed. The queues are in $var_dir/queue/*. If you don't find the messages there, they were delivered successfully as far as Mailman could determine (ie, the outgoing smtp process reported a 2xx status). You can use the "mailman qfile" command to examine the contents of queue files. The shunt and bad queues are "sinks" -- if a message gets into those queues, Mailman will not try to deliver them because they caused some kind of error. The "mailman unshunt" (no argument needed) will try to resend messages in the shunt queue. Depending on why they got there in the first place, and whether that problem was resolved, they may be successfully sent, or they may end up back in the shunt queue. I forget how messages get into the bad queue, but there's no automated way to handle them at all. Check the mailman.log and smtp.log logs (in $log_dir, by default $var_dir/logs) for reports on what mailman was up to. mailman.log is pretty verbose and interesting information is relatively sparse. -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirus Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan

3 months, 2 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Long-shot cry for help

by Matthew Alberti

David, I had alot of the same challenges you are currently seeing. Frankly, a working installation using the Ubuntu packages is seemingly impossible. After trying that and also pip, I elected to use the Docker method. https://github.com/maxking/docker-mailman Sanity preserved. It is very easy. Just an idea. - Matt Alberti ⁣Get BlueMail for Android On Jun 3, 2021, 9:35 AM, at 9:35 AM, David Partain via Mailman-users <mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> wrote: >Hi, > >I'm having severe operational issues with my mailman3 site. My site is >built on standard Ubuntu packages (18.04), and they're ancient. I'm >having two big issues... > >1. I have the old smiley problem that I've had from the very beginning >and never solved. I have added 'charset': 'utf8mb4' to the relevant >config file (/etc/mailman3/mailman-web.py), but that hasn't "taken", in >the sense that the calls to mysql do not include the charset stuff. > >/usr/share/mailman3-web/settings_local.py links to >/etc/mailman3/mailman-web.py and there is no file >/usr/share/mailman3-web/settings_local.pyc. I moved it out of the way >hoping it'd get re-built, but it has not been in the months since. > >The result of this that I get hundreds of mail messages to root >(thousands, really), rapidly filling / with mail in /var/mail/root and >logging in /var/log/mail.log. The mail has something like "Subject: >[Django] ERROR (EXTERNAL IP): Internal Server Error: >/mailman3/hyperkitty/api/mailman/archive" and "DataError at >/hyperkitty/api/mailman/archive (1366, u"Incorrect string value: >'\\xF0\\x9F\\x98\\x8A\\x0D\\x0A...' for column 'content' at row 1")" > >I have tried to trace to figure out what file is _actually_ controlling >the calls to mysql. There's a file called >/var/lib/ucf/cache/:etc:mailman3:mailman-web.py as well, but I have no >idea what that is or if it might be used. > >Is there something like 'mailman info' for mailman-web so I can see >what files are being used? I'd love to fix this... > >2. There's this one curious cron job... > >* * * * * www-data [ -f /usr/bin/django-admin ] && python2.7 >/usr/bin/django-admin runjobs minutely --pythonpath >/usr/share/mailman3-web --settings settings > >(yes, I know python2.7 is a problem... see the last paragraph below). > >These jobs start piling up. They run & run & run, and eventually the >machine screeches to halt when it runs out of memory and goes belly up. >This is a relatively recent development. After a while, I'll have 5 or >6 or more of these all running, looking something like this: > >www-data 6366 6364 99 15:00 ? 00:12:27 python2.7 >/usr/bin/django-admin runjobs minutely --pythonpath >/usr/share/mailman3-web --settings settings > >What this means in practice right now is that I'm forced to go in and >kill these on a regular basis or the machine _will_ die and people >_will_ shout at me. > >Does anyone have any idea why these might not be finishing? Can I >comment this out completely & live happier? Any help whatsoever? > >----------------------------------- > >Finally, I should add that I know my current installation is >fundamentally flawed because I chose to go with distro packages. I >simply cannot fix it. My strong recommendation to others who follow me >is that they do NOT do this. Bite the bullet and install via pip... I'm >now in the process of setting up a new server that is completely based >on the latest via pip installation. I have to get away from what I have >or lose my sanity. > >Cheers, > >David > >_______________________________________________ >Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org >To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org >https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/

4 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: If I manually add email addresses to a list and then delete them, how do i permanent delete them from Users?

by Eggert Ehmke

Works for me too! Thank you. Only the path to python is #! /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python In my installation. Cheers, Eggert Am Dienstag, 25. April 2023, 22:51:52 CEST schrieb Mark London via Mailman-users: > Andrew - The script had: > > DELETE_MAILMAN_USER = False > > When I set it to True, it got rid of the orphaned email addresses. > Thanks! - Mark > > On 4/25/2023 6:02 AM, Andrew Hodgson wrote: > > > Mark London wrote: > > > > > > > >> I added some email addresses manually to a mailing list and then removed > >> them. But now I can't find how to totally remove them from mailman3. > >> They show up in the Users list. > > > You may find this script useful: > > https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/clean_users.py > > > > > > > > I have it running in a cronjob. Thread discussing the script can be found > > here: > > > > > > > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread > > /GH4K42T66FU5PBHJH6ZDQEIUTXVDSLOC/ > > > > > > > TLDR you end up with orphaned Django users both from when users > > subscribe/unsubscribe and due to spam signups using the Postorius form > > which never get confirmed. > > > > > > > Thanks. > > Andrew. > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > Archived at: > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message > /K3PO2XMCDR2342GVPHEQJNZPVPEPY6R4/ > > This message sent to eggert(a)eehmke.de ___________________________________________ Mailman's content filtering has removed the following MIME parts from this message. Replaced multipart/alternative part with first alternative.

2 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Upgrade-path from Ubuntu18LTS to recent mailman release

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Stefan Bauer writes: > thanks alot. That looks promising. Can we just copy the current > mailman3-database and take the configurations or is there a specific > migration path we have to follow? Much of the documentation on mailman.readthedocs.io discusses migrations and upgrades. You should read those for general hints. The distro Mailman to venv Mailman case is more discussed here on the mailing list than in those documents. I don't have pointers to those threads or the time to look offhand, maybe over the next few weeks as I work on our GSoC project. If you do find any, and would post them here, I'll make sure they get into the docs. The main thing is to backup Mailman configs (probably in /etc/mailman or /etc/mailman3) and the backend database (core, Postorius, possibly HyperKitty depending on configuration, and the django-mailman auth stuff) before trying to migrate. (For the backend database I would just dump the RDBMS unless non-Mailman content is really huge.) The nature of the virtualenv install is such that it *will not* overwrite any of the distro files at all (as long as you put it in /usr/local or /opt). However, you want to preserve the configs and database and reuse them, so those *must* be backed up. > We are currently running 3.1.1-9 (Ubuntu 18). Ubuntu 18 is probably old enough that you need to be careful about MySQL and its derivatives. The specific problems are (1) you need to specify the right UTF-8 variant for the coding system, and (2) more recent versions of Mailman tend to make certain records overflow. If you're using PostgreSQL these caveats *do not* apply. If you're using sqlite3 (I doubt it, but just for completeness) you should change to PostgreSQL or MySQL. If you're using something else (same caveat), I can't really say. Probably somebody out there is using Oracle or whatever, but we don't know about that. :-) Steve

3 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: Messages not going to held queue

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Mail Person writes: > I have it set I guess by "it" you mean the user's moderation status, but there are *many* variables that affect whether mail is delivered or not. These include emergency moderation, spam filtering, and HTML handling (and there are probably others I don't remember off the top of my head), as well as individual variables such as not_metoo and the moderation status. All I can rule out is emergency_moderation, because that would prevent your test mail from being delivered when the test user is set to allow. > the user did not get a moderation email, myself as the moderator did > not get a notification, and Postorius did not show them in the held > messages queue. When you set the test user to accept, did you set it to "accept" or to "default processing"? Setting it to "accept" bypasses almost all of the acceptance checks. Usually "default processing" is what you want. > As far as logs, in var/log/mailman3 I do not see any logs other > than mailman.log, plugins.log and smtp.log. In the SMTP log I can > see that the message is getting to mailman: Does mailman.log show any errors? > This leads me to believe the message is being discarded or for some > reason not getting to the moderation queue. Sure, but Mailman doesn't do that for no reason. The only thing I can think of offhand that might happen in a mostly default configuration is that you're using an MUA that creates a multipart message where the plain part is empty and the actual message is HTML (yes, I've seen that in the wild). In some configurations that would cause the HTML part to be deleted, then the message could be recognized as empty and discarded. I haven't analyzed the code thoroughly but I don't recall a log message on that execution path so it might fit your case.

2 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mails are stuck in Mailman Pipeline Queue

by Mark Sapiro

On 3/26/22 21:01, Shashikanth Komandoor wrote: > > But the below trace back is observed during mailman service stopping: This doesn't say much ... ...> Mar 27 09:01:22 2022 (5864) Uncaught runner exception: > Mar 27 09:01:22 2022 (5864) Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/core/runner.py", > line 173, in _one_iteration ... > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/core/runner.py", > line 114, in signal_handler > raise RunnerInterrupt > mailman.interfaces.runner.RunnerInterrupt > Mar 27 09:01:22 2022 (5864) SHUNTING: 1648351882.6693938+ > c2e6ed709646a7680c73059b52d2f0451836e591 > Mar 27 09:01:22 2022 (5864) digest runner exiting. Above, digest runner was interrupted in processing and shunted the message it was working on. and below, pipeline runner was interrupted in processing and shunted the message it was working on. > Mar 27 09:01:22 2022 (5860) Uncaught runner exception: > Mar 27 09:01:22 2022 (5860) Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/core/runner.py", > line 173, in _one_iteration > self._process_one_file(msg, msgdata) > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/core/runner.py", > line 266, in _process_one_file > keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/runners/pipeline.py", > line 37, in _dispose > process(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline) > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/core/pipelines.py", > line 50, in process > handler.process(mlist, msg, msgdata) > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/ > mailman/handlers/member_recipients.py", line 84, in process > for member in mlist.regular_members.members > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/ > mailman/handlers/member_recipients.py", line 83, in <genexpr> > recipients = set(member.address.email > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/model/roster.py", > line 239, in members > yield from self._get_members(DeliveryMode.regular) > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/model/roster.py", > line 226, in _get_members > if member.delivery_mode in delivery_modes: > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/model/member.py", > line 205, in delivery_mode > return self._lookup('delivery_mode') > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/model/member.py", > line 167, in _lookup > pref = getattr(self.address.preferences, preference) > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/sqlalchemy/orm/attributes.py", > line 287, in __get__ > return self.impl.get(instance_state(instance), dict_) > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/sqlalchemy/orm/attributes.py", > line 723, in get > value = self.callable_(state, passive) > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/sqlalchemy/orm/strategies.py", > line 760, in _load_for_state > session, state, primary_key_identity, passive > File "<string>", line 1, in <lambda> > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/sqlalchemy/orm/strategies.py", > line 850, in _emit_lazyload > session.query(self.mapper), primary_key_identity > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/sqlalchemy/ext/baked.py", > line 603, in _load_on_pk_identity > setup, tuple(elem is None for elem in primary_key_identity) The above says the runner was doing a database lookup. This may be a coincidence or there may be some database locking issue that underlies the issue with the pipeline runner. > File "/var/lib/mailman/venv/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/core/runner.py", > line 114, in signal_handler > raise RunnerInterrupt > mailman.interfaces.runner.RunnerInterrupt > Mar 27 09:01:22 2022 (5860) SHUNTING: 1648351882.8537986+ > 9bf59cb23a71a4bae65536bfdbec0abb261adaa0 > Mar 27 09:01:22 2022 (5860) pipeline runner exiting. I suggest doing the following assuming your Mailman database is not sqlite3 (if it is, just do step 2): 1) Stop mailman core and maybe other mailman services too. 2) Assuming the two shunted messages are still in Mailman's shunt queue, run `mailman unshunt` to unshunt them. If there are more shunted messages, inspect them with `mailman qfile` to see if you want them, They may be spam. 3) Restart your database server. 4) Start Mailman core and any other stopped services. Also, look in the database server logs for any issues. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Postorius 1.2.3 and MailmanClient 3.2.1 is now out

by Jonas Meurer

Abhilash Raj: > On Sat, Jan 26, 2019, at 5:10 AM, Jonas Meurer wrote: >> Hey Abhilash, >> >> Thanks a lot for your work on mailman3! >> >> Abhilash Raj: >>> I am very pleased to announce (a bit late) that Postorius 1.2.3 and MailmanClient 3.2.1 is now out. >>> >>> The full set of changelog can be found in the documentation[1][2]. The most notable feature that >>> I can think of is non-member management in Postorius. >>> >>> New releases are available on PyPI[3][4]. >> >> For earlier releases, you provided GnuPG signature files to >> cryptographically verify that the release files were not tampered with. >> >> I couldn't find such signature files for the two latest releases. Would >> you mind adding them? When packaging for Debian, I prefer to check the >> GnuPG signatures before uploading new releases. Also, the signature >> files get uploaded to the Debian archive as well so they can be checked >> by everybody. That way we can cryptographically proof that the Debian >> package is based on the original tarball that got packaged and signed by >> upstream. > > > Ah, sorry about that. I completely forgot about that. > > I am not sure if I can upload signatures after uploading the tarballs, I'll try to find out if that is possible. Thanks a lot, that would be awesome. I'll wait for it before doing the Debian package uploads. Just to let you know: we're close to soft freeze in Debian, so in order to get those uploads into the next stable release (Buster), they'll have to be uploaded rather soon. The same holds for other pending releases of Mailman3 components: Just in case you plan to do new upstream releases anytime soon, it's still possible to upload them to Debian in time for Buster. Cheers jonas

6 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: uncaught bounce messages

by Mark Sapiro

On 10/23/21 10:51 AM, David Bremner wrote: > > I'm getting (many) uncaught bounce messages for one user. Other than > forcibly unsubscribing them, is there anything I can do? I hesitate to > post this message publically, but here is what I can see, somewhat > anonymized If you send me the complete bounce message off list, I can see if it should be added to the recognition at https://gitlab.com/warsaw/flufl.bounce/. BTW, is flufl.bounce in your installation version 4.0? If not you can update via pip install -U flufl.bounce which may help. Actually, depending on how these where installed, it might be necessart=y to do pip install -U flufl.bounce flufl.lock flufl.i18n To avoid import errors due to packaging issues. > The MIME structure looks like > > └┬╴multipart/mixed 7030 bytes > ├─╴text/plain 442 bytes > ├─╴message/delivery-status 176 bytes > └─╴text/rfc822-headers 5301 bytes This is not a RFC 3464 compliant DSN which looks like the above except the top level is multipart/report, not multipart/mixed. However, our recognizer shouldn't care as it only looks at the message/delivery-status part. > In /var/log/mailman3/bounce.log I see lines like > > Oct 23 08:20:00 2021 (5320) Bounce message w/no discernable addresses: <hex-digits(a)foo.bar> <hex-digits(a)foo.bar> is the Message-ID: > In the delivery-status part I see A compliant DSN will also have a Reporting-MTA: section preceding the Final-Recipient: section. > Final-Recipient: rfc822; fub(a)foo.bar > Action: delayed > Status: 4.0.0 This is not a bounce. It is a 'delivery delayed' message. If delivery is not accomplished within an MTA configured time (days), it will turn into a 5.x.x failure which is a bounce, but since fub(a)foo.bar was not recognized, the DSN is non-compliant in some way. In any case, please send me a copy of the bounce so I can see about recognizing it. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Error on timeout vs retry values

by Abhilash Raj

On Sat, Jul 17, 2021, at 11:23 PM, Robert Moody wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I have recently setup a new mailman3 service using the venv method. > Everything is functionally working however I keep getting an error sent > to the mailman email every min which I can not seem to figure out why. > > /opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/django_q/conf.py:142: > UserWarning: Retry and timeout are misconfigured. Set retry larger than > timeout, > failure to do so will cause the tasks to be retriggered before > completion. > See > https://django-q.readthedocs.io/en/latest/configure.html#retry for details. > See https://django-q.readthedocs.io/en/latest/configure.html#retry > for details.""" > > I have edited the timeout and retry values in the > /opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/django_q/conf.py file and > restarted both mailman and mailman-web however this still keeps repeating. You shouldn't edit files in `site-packages` directory as they are part of the package itself and could cause issues. What you want to do is override it in your settings.py (or settings_local.py) file for Django. I am not sure which guide you followed to install Mailman, but it should be somewhere in /opt/mailman/ I suppose (not in venv/ for sure). It should look something like this https://mailman-web.readthedocs.io/en/latest/settings.html#mailman_web.sett… Just the value of retry should be just > than timeout as the error says, so not necessarily same values, but so far 300 and 360 has been working good for us and I haven't seen any report to increase them. > > Any ideas? > > Regards, > > Robert > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

4 years

[MM3-users] Re: Problems configuring hyperkitty

by Thomas Hochstein

Alain D D Williams wrote: > I assume that that will create some database tables. Hopefully this will have > been done by installing package python3-mailman-hyperkitty. You'll need mailman3, mailman3-web and python3-mailman-hyperkitty installed (or mailman3-full, which includes those three). > • What database & tables will that be ? It would be really useful to be told so > that I can check. +-----------------------------------+ | Tables_in_mailman3web | +-----------------------------------+ | account_emailaddress | | account_emailconfirmation | | auth_group | | auth_group_permissions | | auth_permission | | auth_user | | auth_user_groups | | auth_user_user_permissions | | django_admin_log | | django_content_type | | django_mailman3_maildomain | | django_mailman3_profile | | django_migrations | | django_q_ormq | | django_q_schedule | | django_q_task | | django_session | | django_site | | hyperkitty_attachment | | hyperkitty_email | | hyperkitty_favorite | | hyperkitty_lastview | | hyperkitty_mailinglist | | hyperkitty_mailinglist_moderators | | hyperkitty_mailinglist_owners | | hyperkitty_profile | | hyperkitty_sender | | hyperkitty_tag | | hyperkitty_tagging | | hyperkitty_thread | | hyperkitty_threadcategory | | hyperkitty_vote | | postorius_emailtemplate | | socialaccount_socialaccount | | socialaccount_socialapp | | socialaccount_socialapp_sites | | socialaccount_socialtoken | +-----------------------------------+ > • I have several different maildomains each with several lists. I think (!) you'll have to add each mail domain in Django, i.e. <http://yourhost.example/mailman3/admin/>, section "Django Mailman 3", "Mail domains". > Some lists in different domains have the same name. Doesn't matter, as the list name for all parts of Mailman3 is "listname(a)domain.example", i.e. including the domain. > One of the next things that I will need to do is to import archives from > mailman2. How does the command below change for the different domains ? > > django-admin hyperkitty_import --pythonpath example_project --settings settings -l ADDRESS mbox_file [mbox_file ...] AFAIS you'll have to use "/usr/share/mailman3-web/manage.py" instead of "django-admin". For me, that command has worked: | python3 /usr/share/mailman3-web/manage.py hyperkitty_import -l listname(a)domain.example /path/to/listname.mbox You'll have to do that for every list, regardless of domain. > Is there some better documentation that I have failed to find ? Not that I know of. Most is - more or less - documented, but it's not easy to apply the documentation to a Debian installation. It was a bumpy ride, but not really that problematic, as I remember; some googling and try and error was involved. ;) -thh

8 months, 1 week

[MM3-users] Re: Basic settings for a discussion list

by Abhilash Raj

On Sat, Aug 31, 2019, at 9:25 PM, paul(a)arenson.org wrote: > Over the last 20 hours I have been trying to figure out setup for list > members to sign up. One person has kindly helped out, though I am > still unsure of the difference between the several signups. That > thread is here and I welcome more advice. > > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/… > > But it occurs to me that my problem is that I have not actually > configured my list. So this thread is for help on that. I have found a > guide for general users here: > http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/userguide.html > > But I have only found a highly technical guide for administrators here: > https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailmanclient/en/latest/src/mailmanclien… > > It is written for coders and I am looking for a guide similar to the > one for users. It seems not to exist yet. > > WHAT I WANT > Discussion only list. Ideally anyone who signs up via the various ways > should be able to get the archives and post via email and the interface > if they want. The list should be closed to others. > > In the absence of any guide, all I can do is cross check with you guys > and hope I am on the right track. I am non technical, although I > managed a Mailman 2 list without difficulty. > > > 1) FIRST ANOMALY > Under https://list.tokyoprogressive.org/postorius/accounts/subscriptions/ > I see myself twice: > > List Name Subscription Address Delivery Mode Role > discuss.list.tokyoprogressive.org paul(a)tokyoprogressive.org None member > discuss.list.tokyoprogressive.org paul(a)tokyoprogressive.org regular owner > > Is this correct? I added My name in one field somewhere and this is the > result. I even got a welcome message. > I think it is because I subscribed to my own list.If this was not > necessary, what should I do? No, this isn't anomaly. Check out the "Role" column. You are an "owner" of the list and are thus allowed to change the list settings. You are also a "member", which means you will get emails from this mailing list. > > Global based preferences are listed. Address and email based ones are > not showing either enabled or disabled. They are unset, which means they are set to whatever the default value in the backend is. I know this is terrible in many regards, but we have an issue open for this. Hopefully, this will improve in future releases. > > 2) MANAGE LISTS > > For myself I have done the following in my MAILING LIST SETTINGS > > Subscribe to this list > My email and name > (Maybe that is why i am listed twice) That's right. > > Now I see > > 3) Users > For now only me- I am listed as member and owner. > There will be no other moderators or owners > I have no idea what a non member is (if they register aren't they a member?) I explained non-member in other email you sent. > > 4) Templates > This is showing nothing at this point. Before it was. I am not sure > what i did to stop it from showing. Perhaps because I made it a private > list? If this is a new list, it will probably not have any templates. > > 5) Settings > a) List identity > I have it set for NOT SHOWING on the Index page because I will link to > it from my news magazine website as a way to comment on articles. Is > this ok? Other data will be filled in later. I think I am confusing > this with private list. I also will have no other list. > > b) AUTO RESPOND LIST OWNER-- I added a short note thanking people. > Respond and Continue Processing > > c) AUTO RESPOND POSTER--Your message has been been received. If you > are a member, it should be posted soon. Respond and Continue Processing > > d) AUTO RESPOND REQUESTS--No auto response > OTHER THINGS DEFAULT > > e) URL WELCOME MESSAGE--NOT SURE. I want people to subscribe > themselves but I also have 500 people from another list from DADA I > will import. I want them automatically be able to post. Is it > possible? If so, I hope to add them manually. DO I compose a text on > my website and welcome them by adding the URL, or enter it in my list? This option is deprecated, and actually now removed. > > f) NOTIFY OF MEMBERSHIP CHANGES--Yes > > g) ALTER MESSAGES ---I have left most things as they are. However, as > this is a discussion list, I want replies ONLY to go to the list. I > chose that. > > h) DMARC --I have left as is > > i) DIGEST--I have left as is > > > 6) MASS OPERATIONS--I have left as is > > 7) BAN--left as is > > 8) MESSAGE ACCEPTANCE--I have left as is > > > 9) HEADER FILTERS--left as is > > 10) ARCHIVES--Private Archives (Maybe this is why templates do not show???) > > 11) SUBSCRIPTION POLICY--MODERATE-- I intend to send them an email to > confirm their reasons for subscribing to avoid spammers. > > LAST THING. My Gravity does not work. I edited it online as per > instructions but it does not appear. > > That is all I can think of. > > Thanks in advance. > > paul > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

5 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: User settings triggers error

by Mark Dadgar

On Jun 18, 2020, at 4:08 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > On 6/18/20 3:33 PM, Mark Dadgar wrote: >> >> Any thoughts on how to salvage ~20 years of list archives? > > > The archives shouldn't be an issue. I don't think they are involved in > the corruption, but anyway, hopefully you still have the archive mbox > you imported. Then for the messages since then, you should be able to > get a mbox from hyperkitty with something like > > https://example.com/hyperkitty/list/listname@example.com/export/arbitrary-n… > > with the obvious substitutions and appropriate start and end dates. > > The list is trickier. If you are going to start over with a clean > install, and if you have a config.pck that you imported from MM 2.1, I > suggest the following: > > Use the `mailman members` command to get a list of all members. Then > depending on how much work you want to do, also get separate lists of > plaintext and mime digest members and members with delivery disabled. > > Then on the new install, import the config.pck with `mailman import21` > and import the archive mboxes with hyperkitty_import. > > Run `mailman members --sync` with the full current membership list, and > record the [ADD]s. Then you can match the [ADD]s against the plain and > mime digest members and those with delivery disabled and set their options. > > That's a lot to do, but it should get you close. I would probably be satisfied with just exporting the current list of member email addresses + names and letting people go back and change their list settings to switch to digest, etc. if necessary. > On the other hand, if you can wait, we might be able to figure out how > to fix this, and it's even possible the underlying issue isn't database > corruption. Sure - I can wait. Thank you. - Mark ----- mark(a)pdc-racing.net | 408-348-2878

5 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Importing config and archives only partially succeeded?

by Eric Broens

I just notice in the webserver logfile, the same request for the same mlist, msgid and key several times per second for about 3 hours now: "GET /archives/api/mailman/urls?mlist=....&msgid=...&key=... HTTP/1.1" 200 105 "-" "python-requests/2.25.0" The request seems to originate from the server where the mailman suite is installed Best Regards,Eric On Sunday, December 13, 2020, 01:54:54 AM GMT+1, Eric Broens via Mailman-users <mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> wrote: The settings - Archiving, are not different from the ones that do show the messages:"Private Archives" selected, and Active archivers "hyperkitty" also selected. I was trying to find out how the hyperkitty page gets the mails from the database, and if I can start from there.Or maybe something is not completely correct in the database tables. Best Regards,Eric On Sunday, December 13, 2020, 01:27:53 AM GMT+1, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: On 12/12/20 3:56 PM, Eric Broens via Mailman-users wrote: > After everything was imported, and I noticed that the mails were not shown in the archives for half of the mailinglists, I ran "manage.py update_index" to index the mails for all mailinglists.This command is still running for hours.Since it builds the search index, I don't expect that this would make the mails available on the webpage. I agree, that won't make the mails available on the webpage. If you're using the default Whoosh search engine, "hours" is not unexpected. Elasticsearch is much faster and Xapian faster still. What do you see in Postorius - Settings -> Archiving for the lists whose messages don't show? -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/

4 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Upgrade Mailmam Core from

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Sascha Rissel writes: > I wonder a bit how deep I have to dive into these individual configuration files. > Is there some minimal config for a standard Ubuntu/Debian system? I think that if you follow the "venv" process as described in <https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html?>, it covers everything you must configure. There are about a dozen places that you must check in mailman.cfg, such as the location of your MTA and its port (for the simplest installations, host=127.0.0.1, port=25 will do), mailman's LMTP port (usually the default of 8024 will do), and the credentials for accessing the REST interface (restadmin and restpass: change these!!) Pretty sure there are others. There are quite a few decisions that need to be made in mailman-web settings.py, including setting the REST credentials to the ones you chose in mailman.cfg, and setting up your database (sqlite3 is great for quick experiments or tiny installations with 10 posts/year ;-). And I don't think there are any MTAs or webservers that are plug and play with Mailman: you have to configure the MTA to forward mailman list addresses to Mailman's LMTP port, and usually there's nontrivial configuration of the namespaces that are to be forwarded to Mailman/Django and those that are served directly (such as CSS style files) by the webserver. Django also has its own access credentials that must be coordinated with mailman.cfg I think. So "minimal" is still pretty complex. While I would be *extremely* cautious about using any *values* for parameters that are specified in Brian Carpenter's HOWTO <https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Howto_Install_Mailman3_On_Debian10> (this is the one that Odhiambo suggested, and it's a really valuable resource), I'm pretty sure it accurately covers all the steps you need to take in configuration. You may find it easier to read than our manual. Going through that and checking your venv configuration against the steps in the HOWTO would be a good way to confirm that you've got a good configuration.

2 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: EMWD/Affinity/Empathy in 2023

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Mark Sapiro writes: > I have had some contact [with EMWD], but not much. As far as I > know, they are still in business and offering list hosting > including Mailman 3 lists with Affinity and Empathy. They no longer > offer support for installation and maintenance of Mailman on other > people's servers. That exactly describes my experience. To jaboyib556, I recommend you contact them directly and make your own judgment. I do not know the current operators of EMWD, but I do know that the Carpenter family carefully vetted several bids. And their concentration on servers they run suggests they know what they're good at and have focus. I think they're a good bet, but only you can judge. > As far as I know, it was only EMWD that did this and for business > reasons, kept it proprietary. I corresponded with Brian about this.[1] He said that a third-party consultant (not sure if they're related to the current operators) built the Affinity and Empathy applications in PHP on a limited budget, and he felt that he needed to keep them proprietary as a temporary "no competition" measure until they could build up a nest egg to support on-going development. He said, and I have no reason to disbelieve him, that he thought it would take a year to build the reputation, another year to recoup the investment, and within that time frame he planned an open source release. I suspect he planned a Aladdin Ghostscript-like strategy: with the publication of release N, he would release N-1 as open source. He made no commitments, but I believe that was his aspiration. He was always a great supporter of Mailman, giving generously of his time and expertise to people on our lists including those hosting with other businesses. We miss him a lot. Footnotes: [1] On friendly terms: "hope for an open-source release" is not a matter of moral imperative with me, and I believe I speak for all Mailman developers on that.

2 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman not able to process "big" requests

by Darren Smith

Our installation at https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com has around 33,000 lists and somewhere around 1.5 million members. We have lists with 5,000+ members. Note that I haven't tried any mass subscriptions. When we upgraded from mailman 2 to mailman 3, we used the old .pck files and ran the import on each of the lists. It did take about 6 weeks to do the full import all 33,000 lists. I'm not joking. As for sending messages - there isn't any problem sending that many messages out, but then we are also not trying to subscribe list members at the time. We are, though, in the process of importing the old archives from our old mailman 2 system. This doesn't seem to affect the rest of the system. We have seen some inefficiencies in the new system, such as the front page of postorius - loading all of the information for 200 lists (if the user set the "lists per page" to 200) was bringing down the system. We have our own metadata system to be able to search for lists by state/region/surname (ours is a genealogy mailing list system), so we had to replace the front page with our own "find a list" functionality. The other main problem was the page where a user can see what lists they subscribe to. That page was also a denial of service if the user had several hundred lists they are subscribed to. And for a genealogy mailing list system, this is common. We have actually ended up creating our own API layer (only accessible on the local machine) and make certain calls to it for the most painful of the issues. One of these days (when we get a moment to breathe) we are going to post some of our changes to the project so that we can ditch our own API and just use the internal REST API. To be fair, the inefficiencies are not necessarily with mailman or the rest API itself - but with Postorius making hundreds of calls to load a single page. Though if the API supported loading multiple lists at once instead of having to load them serially, that might help as well. So while we have not seen any timeout issues on the call to mass subscribe users, we HAVE found several other calls that are effectively a denial of service and have gotten around them ourselves, with plans to contribute to the project in the near future. -Darren On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 8:47 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > On 04/24/2018 12:36 AM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 23, 2018, at 10:41 PM, Jonas Felber wrote: > > >> We also have a problem with sending out emails to "large" (>50) groups, > >> as they seem to not getting sent out at all. Do you have any idea what > >> the problem here could be? > > > > Which MTA are you using? What do you see in mailman's logs and MTA's > logs? > > > > I haven't seen this kind of problem before with Mailman 3. This very > list is hosted using Mailman 3 and I believe has more than 50 subscribers. > > > Nor have I seen this issue. This list currently has 158 non-digest > members. There are several @python.org Mailman 3 lists with over 100 > non-digest members including the active yt-users(a)python.org list with > 301 members, and I have gotten no reports of an issue like this. > > Also, there are over 600 lists at <https://lists.fedoraproject.org/>, > and I don't think this is an issue there either. > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ >

7 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Mailman installation results in KeyError: 'env_py'

by Marvin Gülker

Hi, I'm trying to install Mailman 3 on Debian 9. However, it doesn't let me do. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ $ virtualenv -p python3 env [...] $ . ./env/bin/activate $ pip install mailman [...] Successfully installed [...]mailman-3.1.0[...] $ mailman info Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/bin/mailman", line 11, in <module> sys.exit(main()) File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/bin/mailman.py", line 97, in main initialize(config_path) File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/core/initialize.py", line 185, in initialize initialize_2(propagate_logs=propagate_logs) File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/core/initialize.py", line 156, in initialize_2 config.db = getUtility(IDatabaseFactory, utility_name).create() File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/database/factory.py", line 55, in create SchemaManager(database).setup_database() File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/database/factory.py", line 96, in setup_database alembic.command.stamp(alembic_cfg, 'head') File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/command.py", line 504, in stamp script.run_env() File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/script/base.py", line 425, in run_env util.load_python_file(self.dir, 'env.py') File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/util/pyfiles.py", line 81, in load_python_file module = load_module_py(module_id, path) File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/alembic/util/compat.py", line 83, in load_module_py spec.loader.exec_module(module) File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap_external>", line 673, in exec_module File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap>", line 222, in _call_with_frames_removed File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/mailman/database/alembic/env.py", line 38, in <module> @public File "/home/mailman/mailman-test/env/lib/python3.5/site-packages/public/public.py", line 15, in public else sys.modules[thing.__module__].__dict__) KeyError: 'env_py' ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I'm not a Python developer, I usually use Ruby for anything web-related, thus I can't make anything of this. Since the error message conveys exactly no information that I could use to find the problem and Google provides no mailman-specific information on it, I don't know what to do now. Any hint is appreciated. Python version, if of any use: $ python --version Python 3.5.3 Greetings Marvin -- Blog: https://www.guelkerdev.de PGP/GPG ID: F1D8799FBCC8BC4F

7 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Enforcing SSO and subscription options

by Christian Schneider

Hello, did you manage to disable the local registration (with django accounts)? I am trying to get rid of these locally registered accounts as well. Background: I only want authorized accounts (provided by our SSO) to be owners or moderators with the ability to manage lists... So, if I block all other (local django accounts) a list-owner might be able to enter an account with an external e-mail address as another owner, but the external account will not able to sign in via web ui...and to manage the list! (A list member can be any (external) user...I only care about moderators/admins and moderators) Questions: Is this a viable approach, or do I make a conceptual mistake here? Is there another way to prevent non (sso-)authorized from becoming an owner? Remark: I followed your way in this thread and made copies of various template files in a seperate location. (I run a venv installation on Ubuntu) My central configuration files are under /etc/mailman3 (mailman.cfg, mailman-hyperkitty.cfg, settings.py and uwsgi.ini) I set the following options in settings.py: TEMPLATES[0]['DIRS'].append('/etc/mailman3/templates') SOCIALACCOUNT_ONLY = True ACCOUNT_EMAIL_VERIFICATION = EmailVerificationMethod.NONE ACCOUNT_ADAPTER = 'django_mailman3.views.user_adapter.DisableSignupAdapter' This got me over the following error: django.urls.exceptions.NoReverseMatch: Reverse for 'account_signup' not found. 'account_signup' is not a valid view function or pattern name But a new error occured: django.urls.exceptions.NoReverseMatch: Reverse for 'account_reset_password' not found. 'account_reset_password' is not a valid view function or pattern name. When I scan the installation directory for this ("account_reset_password") I find it in several places, mostly non template files... So there seems no way to get rid of this error without modifying code... This is nothing one should do - it makes the whole software and its updates unmanageable... So it seems to be a kind of a dead end... Is there any way to get approach (only sso-authorized owners/admins/moderators) working? Kind regards Christian P.S. Sorry for hijacking this thread, but it seems the right place for my questions... :-)

2 weeks, 1 day

[MM3-users] Re: Adding user - Error 409 Subscription request already pending

by Mark Sapiro

On 4/19/19 6:33 PM, kevin(a)coastalaska.org wrote: > We have a couple of people trying to subscribe to our list but receive an error similar to: > {"title": "409 Conflict", "description": "Subscription request already pending"} > > If I try to Mass Subscribe them in Postorius I get this error: > HTTP Error 409: b'{"title": "409 Conflict", "description": "Subscription request already pending"}' > > In Postorius I don't see them hung up in Subscription requests. Postorius since 1.2.3 does not show subscription requests waiting user confirmation, only those waiting moderator approval. Thus, if the list's subscription policy is confirm or confirm then moderate, the subscribing user will be sent an email requesting confirmation. If the user hasn't answered that email, the request is pending user confirmation, and since 1.2.3, you won't see it in Postorius. [Update: this is fixed in 1.2.4] > What to do? 1) have the user find the confirmation request email and confirm, or 2) wait for the request to expire (default 3 days) 3) using mailman shell or the REST api or direct interaction with the database, find the token and confirm it. A shell example is ``` mailman shell -l your.list.id Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell The variable 'm' is the your.list.id mailing list >>> util = getUtility(IPendings) >>> list(util.find(mlist=m,pend_type='subscription')) ``` This returns a list of items like ('hex_token'), {'token_owner': 'subscriber', 'email': 'user(a)example.com', 'display_name': 'Jane User', 'when': '2019-04-09T01:26:08', 'type': 'subscription', 'list_id': 'your.list.id'}) You then do ``` >>> util.confirm('hex_token') ``` Note that https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/issues/314 which was responsible for removing the subs waiting user confirmation from the Postorius listing suggested "there could be a different place to see the ones pending user approval, so that a moderator can look and/or delete those.", but that hasn't been done. [Update: this is fixed in 1.2.4] -- Mark Sapiro mark(a)msapiro.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

6 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Manual setup - permissions

by Abhilash Raj

On Mon, Sep 23, 2019, at 3:02 AM, Tobias Hachmer via Mailman-users wrote: > Hi Mark, > > thanks for your response. > > On 9/23/19 1:29 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > On 9/22/19 2:11 AM, Tobias Hachmer via Mailman-users wrote: > >> > >> Now, running the scheduled tasks (which run from user+group "nginx") for > >> django I ran into permission problems, because the nginx user can't > >> access/write to the needed files in /opt/mailman3/core/... > >> > >> I would appreciate any hints how to run the different peaces of mailman3 > >> with the correct user/groups/permissions. > > > > > > Set up everything as user:group mailman3:mailman3. I.e., > > > > chown -R mailman3:mailman3 /opt/mailman3/web > > > > and set the uwsgi service to drop privileges to user+group "mailman3". > > So simple, now the scheduled tasks are working, but the whole web > service did not work because the web server user nginx can't access and > write to the uwsgi socket anymore /opt/mailman3/web/project/run/uwsgi.sock. > > # chown -R nginx:mailman3 /opt/mailman3/web > > This works for all. But isn't it a security risk that e.g. manage.py and > settings.py is read- and writeable by the webserver? You just need them to be readable, not writable. You could possibly use xattrs to do just grant read privs. You could also configure uwsgi to create a socket somewhere nginx can read it, `/var/run/uwsgi.sock` should be good enough. You can in theory also try https://uwsgi-docs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Systemd.html for systemd setup in which case you don't have to manually create sockets as systemd can do that for you. > > Regards, > Tobias > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > > *Attachments:* > * signature.asc -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

5 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mixing Mailman 3 with AWS SES

by Ralph Weber

To close the loop on this topic... Comments received directly from one of the people who developed the AWS Marketplace kits for Mailman 3 and Mailman 4 have definitively established that AWS Mailman is *not* intended to interact with AWS SES when receiving email messages. AWS Mailman is designed to receive its email messages via Postfix. With many thanks to all those on this list who corroborated "Mailman and SES don't mix" mantra here, we are taking the advice received from so many sources and ending efforts to do the impossible. All the best, .Ralph On 3/20/2021 8:23 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Ralph Weber writes: > > > I am moving the website www.t10.org from a private/corporate VM to > > AWS EC2s. > > > > For many years, t10.org has had very happy results with using > > Mailman 2 for its email reflector, and I have no real concerns > > about moving to Mailman 3. My bugbear is the fact that I need the > > following mixed bag of incoming email addresses to work in concert > > with each other to receive and handle emails. > > > > > t10(a)t10.org (Primary Mailman Reflector) > > > chair(a)t10.org (Mailman Reflector to direct messages to the T10 > > > chair and his designates) > > * docs(a)t10.org (document posting mechanics - serviced by a small > > mountain of home-grown code code > > * bbs(a)t10.org (other publicly accessible services - serviced by > > code that recalls the days when everything as done on a Bulletin > > Board System, BBS) > > This isn't a Mailman question, to be frank. As Abhilash points out, > Mailman doesn't care about other mailboxes served by its host (unless > they conflict with list names or adinistrative addresses derived from > list names, which evidently yours do not). It's a question about the > mail service at AWS. I've not seen any documentation in our project > about setting up at AWS; I don't know anybody who has done so. (I > haven't looked for either though.) > > I took a quick look for AWS SES documentation. They don't seem to > have any real documentation online for the general public, only lists > of features. They also seem to be very focused on sending rather than > receiving. Much talk of how much mail you can send, bulk emailing, > statistics on responses, and the like. None about setting up for > incoming mail. > > Probably I could get access to online help if I signed up for a free > account, but that's above my pay grade. > > > My best guess is that the AWS Simple Email Service (SES) needs to > > sit in front of both Mailman and the home-grown code, > > I don't know if AWS provides an alternative Complicated Email Service, > but yes, something like SES is going to have to sit in front of the > various mailboxes. > > Mailman itself has a certain amount of capability to deal with the > main email protocols, but it is definitely not capable of replacing > the main mail server. For security reasons I would definitely advise > against any Mailman 3 presence directly on the Internet. It was > designed on the assumption that it would talk to the Internet via a > standard mail server, Postorius (for administration), and HyperKitty > (for mail archives)[1], and occasionally to admins logging in with shell > accounts. > > > All available evidence read to date > > URLs, please. As I wrote above, Amazon's documentation is at best not > very discoverable. > > > suggests that the default AWS installation > > Whose default installation of Mailman? AWS's? Typical 3rd party > configurations? > > > of Mailman 3 assumes that Mailman 3 is the *only* receiver of > > emails in the configuration. > > That's possible, but it's likely an artifact of the application -- I > would expect that many who host Mailman on AWS do so to isolate > Mailman from other services they provide. So it seems reasonable that > in many such installations Mailman is *the* service for that instance. > > But mail servers are designed to be many inputs, many outputs > services. If SES itself is as restricted as you fear, surely AWS > provides an alternative, more powerful mail service. I can imagine > quite a few restrictions, other than the backing application, on the > SES that Amazon *might* impose. But without access to documentation, > we can't say much. > > > Or... Hercules may have already cleaned the Augean Stables, and > > left behind a AWS Lambda function that can serve as a keystone > > puzzle piece for solving my dilemma. > > Good luck on that. I don't know of any, but that would be a quick > solution for you. I hope somebody here knows more. As evidenced by > Andrew's post, there are folks thinking about it, so maybe somebody's > actually tried -- anybody? Successes? Pitfalls to watch for? > > The other issue Andrew mentions could be important. Since Solar Winds > I'm seeing daily attempts to access my O365 server (nonexistent) from > AWS. Given the size of AWS, I think they probably actually do a good > job of keeping felonious behavior to a minimum[2], but a lot of folks > I know are happy to cut off huge netblocks until somebody they know > actually complains. :-( > > Footnotes: > [1] Or more precisely, some webservice providing those services > mediating between the Internet and Mailman sitting cozily behind a > firewall. > > [2] DigitalOcean, on the other hand, is accumulating blocked /24s, > and even /16s, at my firewall. But that's another story.

4 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mm3 - new adventure

by Mark Sapiro

On 03/14/2017 09:14 AM, SP2L wrote: > > Lately started adventurous journey with Mailman3 > which is way, way different already from the beginning. > > Used Mailman bundler to install GNU Mailman, Postorius and HyperKitty > testing instance in virtual environment, mainly relaying on belows recipe: > > https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-bundler/ mailman-bundler is out of date and deprecated. You might find <https://wiki.list.org/x/17891998> of interest. > Present status. > > Above trio and MySQLServer are "talking" to each other > but because there isproper database on MySQLServer > I am facing strange and unexpected issues, Hi! > > Executing last two commands: > > (venv)$ ./bin/mailman start > (venv)$ ./bin/mailman-web-django-admin runserver 0.0.0.0:8000 & > > I see Postorius and HyperKitty up & runningbut... > > Belowvery condensed messages from the console: > > > /HyperKitty/ > > DEBUG = False > > [12/Mar/2017 18:59:43] "GET /archives/ HTTP/1.1" 200 8002 > WARNING Not Found: > /static/hyperkitty/libs/jquery/smoothness/jquery-ui-1.10.3.custom.min.css ... Have you run the script that bundler installs as bin/mailman-post-update? > /mailman3/ > > DEBUG = False > > Server Error (500) > > > DEBUG = True > > HTTP Error 500: A server error occurred. Please contact the administrator. > > Exception Location: > /var/lib/mailman3/mailman-bundler/eggs/mailmanclient-1.0.1-py2.7.egg/mailmanclient/_client.py > in call, line 109 > > Then VERY, verylong list... Without knowing what the exception was and at least the start of the traceback, it's hard to say what this might be. > By means of PhpMyAdmin I created manually mailman3 database > and few tables (looking at 0001_initial.py) , but it is not working O.K. > This handmade table is not doing it's job. You shouldn't need to do this. If you have the proper settings and credentials in the DATABASES setting in mailman-web/settings_local.py and the [database] section in deployment/mailman.cfg, the tables should be created for you. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

8 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Postorius Suggestion: Give owner a view of all users of all owned lists

by Andreas Vetter

[Forgot reply to list] ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Thank you Stephen for your questions. I have to admit that I thought about a quick and dirty solution, but you are right, it would not be optimal. Lets see: Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Andreas Vetter writes: > > it would be real great if owners that own several lists, but are > > not superusers, can see all users of all *their* lists and manage > > them. A down-"selected" version of the superusers view. > > > > Would that be possible? > > Possible, yes. I don't know how to do it well enough to add to our > distribution. > > Note that owners can't actually manage users -- that really does need > to be a superuser. Owners can manage subscriptions to the lists they > own. Agreed, "manage subscriptions" is what owners would need. A list of all addresses subscribed to all lists owned by the logged in person. > So first we'd want to create a new "Subscriptions" item for the > top menu; the "Users" item isn't appropriate. I'm not sure who that > item should be visible to. Most likely only owners, because > individuals already have ways to see all their subscriptions, and it's > not obvious they would want the same presentation as your superowners. Owner is the primary target group for that. But since it should be a tool for managing subscriptions in a simple way, it might also be of interest for superusers. For me as a superuser it would make life easier. > Then you'd iterate over the logged-in owner's lists and collect all of > the subscriptions. I guess you'd want them to be organized by address > rather than by list. By User is out, I think -- owners can't normally > see Users, and I'm unhappy abou the privacy implications of being able > to correlate nole(a)alset.com with head(a)dodgy.gov in general, although I > realize it's not a problem in your setting. Ah, I see the problem and agree: So, the presentation should have a sorted and searchable list of addresses and a Button next to each address, maybe labeled "Subscriptions". > Without a more complete specification of what your users need, and the > presentation they'd want to see, I personally am unwilling to go > farther than those comments. Maybe one of the other devs feels > differently. The presentation given when above "Subscriptions" Button is clicked should contain the address as kind of Headline. Then a table of all lists of the logged in owner and next to each mailing list an indication, if the address is subscribed or not and a Button to toggle subscription/unsubscription. May be a single Toggle Button or (maybe better) two buttons, a suscribe and a unsubscribe button, where one is greyed out.b In our case Delivery Status and Delivery Mode are not interesting, but others might appreciate it. In addition my owners would like to have a "unsubscribe from all my lists" button. And a "subscribe to all my lists" button. This might be visually nicer, when having the two-button approach above. In our case we would want to (un-)subscribe the address in a "do it, don't ask anyone" fashion, but maybe this is not a good idea in general. What do you think? > Also, "domain owner" is way under-implemented currently. For the > hierarchical situation you outline, all the problems go away for > domain owners. Of course then you'd need to split out lists by > domain, but to me that's a small cost to preserve sanity in the > structure. Yes, I agree, but policy here is to get rid of subdomains, and that falls on our feet now. -- Mit freundlichen Gruessen, Andreas Vetter

4 months, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: hyperkitty_import Unicode Errors

by Stephen J Turnbull

On 2023-05-07 07:39 Mark Sapiro writes: > On 5/6/23 11:27, Dave Hall via Mailman-users wrote: >> django.db.utils.OperationalError: (1366, "Incorrect string value: >> '\\xE1\\x90\\xA7\\x0A\\x0AO...' for column >> `mailman3web`.`hyperkitty_email`.`content` at row 1") >> >> Is there a known cause for this? Almost always nonconforming user clients. You write "frequently", but I'm guessing it's maybe 1% or 2% of all the messages, right? I suspect it's a particular author or institution using such a client. >> Is it fixed in some release more recent than 0+20180916? This is almost surely not something we can fix. Based on the error, it's in third party code (Django) that we import. It's possible we could provide a more explanatory message, but the only thing we can sensibly do is hold the message for an admin to edit it by hand. As long as the text in question and the Content-Type header aren't too sensitive, we can help with identifying charset (often UTF-8 as Mark suggests but why someone would be encoding FINAL MIDDLE DOT is a mystery to me). > I'm not sure what's going on here. My first thought is the database is > MySQL or MariaDB and this is a 4-byte UTF-8 encoding and the database > column charset definition is utf8 and not utf8mb4, but > '\\xE1\\x90\\xA7\\x0A\\x0A' is the 3-byte UTF-8 encoding for CANADIAN > SYLLABICS FINAL MIDDLE DOT ('\\xE1\\x90\\xA7') followed by two > newlines. so I'm not sure what the issue is. I'm guessing home-made client, possibly Asian or a spammer, which provides no content-type header. Even today I see raw 8-bit encoded text without an encoding spec from legitimate Japanese and Chinese sources, and of course with spammers all bets are off -- they might even do it deliberately to crash filters. -- University of Tsukuba　　　　　　　　　　　　 Faculty of Policy and Planning Sciences Tennodai 1-1-1, Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN tel/fax: +81-29-853-5091 turnbull(a)sk.tsukuba.ac.jp 　　　　　　　　　　　　　　https://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/

2 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: Pd CRON mailman gatenews

by Pierre Malard

Hello, That’s going again! If I understood your advice correctly, if we do not have lists for which the gateway to the mail is set to yes, we can comment on the CRON "gatenew". This is what I will do > Le 17 mars 2023 à 07:50, Pierre Malard via Mailman-users <mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> a écrit : > > Hi Mark, > > Thanks for your answer and your lead > >> Le 16 mars 2023 à 18:34, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> a écrit : >> >> On 3/15/23 23:31, Pierre Malard via Mailman-users wrote: >> >>> File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/flufl/lock/_lockfile.py", line 502, in _read >>> with open(self._lockfile) as fp: >>> PermissionError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman3/locks/dbcreate.lck' >>> —————————————————————————————————————————————————— >>> CRON content: >>> —————————————————————————————————————————————————— >> ... >>> # Every 15 minutes, gate messages from usenet to those lists which have the gateway configured >>> */15 * * * * list if [ -x /usr/bin/mailman ]; then /usr/bin/mailman gatenews; fi >> >> Do you have any list's for which Gateway to mail is set to yes or for which there is a Linked Newsgroup?. If not, running gatenews is superfluous. > > No, we don’t have > >> >>> I thought, given the last line, a problem of rights. It is not the case ! The directory and the files contained in /var/lib/mailman3/locks belong to the user "list". >>> When I run "/usr/bin/mailman gatenews" by hand everything is correct. >> >> Can you do `sudo -u list cat /var/lib/mailman3/locks/dbcreate.lck`. If that succeeds, this may be a SELinux or other security manager issue. > > Their is no file with this name! > listesman:~# ls -ld /var/lib/mailman3/locks/dbcreate.lck > ls: impossible d'accéder à '/var/lib/mailman3/locks/dbcreate.lck': Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type > >> >> >>> The questions I have are these: >>> We have 8000 files "dbcreate.lck..." in the directory "/var/lib/mailman3/locks". >>> What are they for? >>> Can we delete them? >> >> They are probably all orphaned lock files due the the gatenews failure. To be certain that none are current you could stop Mailman core. Then with Mailman core stopped, any files in /var/lib/mailman3/locks are orphaned and should be removed. > > Ok, is done. > > We will see today if it continues > >> >>> We have 2 files "master.lck..." dated from the day after tomorrow ! >>> What is this date? >>> Aren't these files the problem? >> >> >> Those files are normal. They are the master lock that prevents Mailman core from being started when it's already running. The future date is the way flufl.lock handles lock lifetimes. Locks when set have a lifetime, after which they can be broken. This is implemented in flufl.lock by setting the file's date that far into the future. > > Ok, that’s smart :-) > >> >> -- >> Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net <mailto:mark@msapiro.net>> The highway is for gamblers, >> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org <mailto:mailman-users@mailman3.org> >> To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org <mailto:mailman-users-leave@mailman3.org> >> https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ <https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/> >> Archived at: https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… <https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message…> >> >> This message sent to plm(a)teledetection.fr <mailto:plm@teledetection.fr> > > -- > Pierre Malard > Responsable architectures système CDS DINAMIS/THEIA Montpellier > IRD - UMR Espace-Dev - UAR CPST - IR Data-Terra > Maison de la Télédétection > 500 rue Jean-François Breton > 34093 Montpellier Cx 5 > France > > « Je n'ai jamais séparé la République des idées de justice sociale, > sans laquelle elle n'est qu'un mot » > Jean Jaures - 1887 > |\ _,,,---,,_ > /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ > |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) πr > > perl -e '$_=q#: 3|\ 5_,3-3,2_: 3/,`.'"'"'`'"'"' 5-. ;-;;,_: |,A- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'"'"'-'"'"': '"'"'-3'"'"'2(_/--'"'"' `-'"'"'\_): 24πr::#;y#:#\n#;s#(\D)(\d+)#$1x$2#ge;print' > - --> Ce message n’engage que son auteur <-- > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org <mailto:mailman-users@mailman3.org> > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org <mailto:mailman-users-leave@mailman3.org> > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ <https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/> > Archived at: https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… <https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message…> > > This message sent to plm(a)teledetection.fr <mailto:plm@teledetection.fr> -- Pierre Malard Responsable architectures système CDS DINAMIS/THEIA Montpellier IRD - UMR Espace-Dev - UAR CPST - IR Data-Terra Maison de la Télédétection 500 rue Jean-François Breton 34093 Montpellier Cx 5 France « La façon de donner vaut mieux que ce que l'on donne » Pierre Corneille (1606-1684) - Le menteur |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) πr perl -e '$_=q#: 3|\ 5_,3-3,2_: 3/,`.'"'"'`'"'"' 5-. ;-;;,_: |,A- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'"'"'-'"'"': '"'"'-3'"'"'2(_/--'"'"' `-'"'"'\_): 24πr::#;y#:#\n#;s#(\D)(\d+)#$1x$2#ge;print' - --> Ce message n’engage que son auteur <-- ___________________________________________ Mailman's content filtering has removed the following MIME parts from this message. Replaced multipart/alternative part with first alternative.

2 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: If I manually add email addresses to a list and then delete them, how do i permanent delete them from Users?

by Mark Sapiro

On 4/25/23 2:14 PM, Andrew Hodgson wrote: > Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> The script at https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/clean_users.py has been updated. As before, it has settings to control whether Django users are deleted if there is a corresponding Mailman user with no memberships or only if there is no corresponding Mailman user, and whether or not Mailman users with no >memberships are deleted. > > Thanks, I ran this script and it did delete a load of Mailman users, I got output similar to this: > <User "" (47600399411039288509336192576257642185) at 0x7fb17a6a35e0> deleted from Mailman > > Why aren't we seeing the actual address here? That was a choice I made. you could change ``` with transaction(): user_manager.delete_user(mm_user) print(f'{mm_user} deleted from Mailman') ``` to ``` with transaction(): try: email = user.preferred_address.email except AttributeError: email = 'no_preferred_address' user_manager.delete_user(mm_user) print(f'{email} deleted from Mailman') ``` to display the email address from the user's preferred_address if the user has one. All users should have one, but I've seen cases where there isn't one. It could also be ``` email = user.addresses[0].email ``` which might be better. In the above case, the empty string, "", is the user's display_name which in this case is empty, and the number in parentheses is the UUID of the user expressed as a decimal integer which isn't really useful. My thought was the display_name was as useful as anything, but obviously not if it's empty. I actually started with the preferred_address.email code above, but in testing, I got the 'no_preferred_address' result with the one deleted user so I, perhaps erroneously, went with the representation of the user. I'll probably update the script again. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Installing mailman 3

by Rafael Mora

Hi Abhilash, I'm trying to use Mailman 3 on my centos 7 virtual machine. Those steps I wrote are from websites, the last console instructions are mine. I don't use ubuntu, I use centos 7. When I run the start command I get this: (venv3) [root@localhost mailman]# mailman start > Starting Mailman's master runner > /root/dev/mailman/venv3/bin/python: can't open file '/sbin/master': > [Errno > 2] No such file or directory What can I do? Thank you El mar., 11 jul. 2017 a las 12:31, Abhilash Raj (<raj.abhilash1(a)gmail.com>) escribió: > Hi Rafael, > > On Tue, Jul 11, 2017, at 07:32 AM, Rafael Mora wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I want to install mailman 3 in a centos 7 virtual machine. I'm following > > these steps and I cannot make it work: > > I am wondering if you are interested to setup a development environment > or use Mailman 3? > These instructions below are for working on Mailman, if you just need to > deploy, instructions here[1] would be the best. > > > 1. `cd ~` > > 2. `git clone https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman.git` > <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman.git> > > 3. `cd mailman` > > 4. `virtualenv -p python3 venv` > > 5. `source venv/bin/activate` > > 6. `python setup.py develop` > > 7. I am pretty sure this setup command will place a configuration file > > into > > `~/mailman/var/etc/mailman.cfg`. Edit this file. > > > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/config/docs/config.html > > 8. `mailman info` can confirm which configuration file is in use > > 9. `mailman start` will start up Mailman 3 Core. This is what the parent > > background process command looks like in `ps -ef`: > > `/home/ubuntu/mailman/venv/bin/python > > /home/ubuntu/mailman/venv/bin/master > > -C /home/ubuntu/mailman/var/etc/mailman.cfg` > > Looks like you are working as the ubuntu user here and the the > virtualenv that you created exists at `/home/ubuntu/mailman/venv`. > > > I also tried the steps on the website > > https://wiki.list.org/DEV/SetupDevEnvironment > > but it doesn't work either > > > > What do you suggest? > > > > This is what I get from console: > > > > > > [root@localhost ~]# cd dev/ > > > > [root@localhost dev]# cd mailman/ > > > > [root@localhost mailman]# source venv3/bin/activate > > Why do you try to user a different venv as a root user here? If you'd > just try: > > $ source /home/ubuntu/mailman/venv/bin/activate > > and then try > > $ mailman start > > things would work! > > However, this would be a different instance of mailman and would create > the new configuration (and the entire var directory) at the directory > you run this command from. If you want to inhibit this, you can either > use the -C flag, or set MAILMAN_CONFIG_FILE environment variable to > point to your one single configuration file. > > > > > (venv3) [root@localhost mailman]# cd mailman/ > > > > (venv3) [root@localhost mailman]# ls > > conf.py COPYING data README.rst src > > unittest.cfg > > contrib coverage.ini MANIFEST.in setup.cfg template.py > > copybump.py cron port_me setup.py tox.ini > > > > (venv3) [root@localhost mailman]# cd .. > > > > (venv3) [root@localhost mailman]# mailman start > > Starting Mailman's master runner > > /root/dev/mailman/venv3/bin/python: can't open file '/sbin/master': > > [Errno > > 2] No such file or directory > > > > (venv3) [root@localhost mailman]# > > > > Thank you > > -- > > Hope that helps! > > [1]: http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/prodsetup.html > > -- > thanks, > Abhilash Raj > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- Atentamente / Best Regards Ing. Rafael Mora

8 years

[MM3-users] Re: installing mailman3 core

by Mark Sapiro

On 5/29/20 7:41 AM, Ralf Wiegand wrote: > Mark - What is the difference between to two install methods? What are > my pros and cons? Installing from the GitLab repository will get the latest development version, however, you can also install from this repository via pip and pick a tag or commit to install <https://pip.pypa.io/en/stable/reference/pip_install/#git> `pip install mailman3` will install the latest released version. As of this writing, that's 3.3.1, so ``` pip install mailman3 ``` and ``` pip install git+https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman@3.3.1 ``` should give the same result although the former installs from PyPI and the latter from GitLab. The advantage to installing the latest version from GitLab is you get features and fixes that haven't been released yet. The disadvantage is you might get new bugs, although the servers that support this list and all the Mailman 3 @python.org lists are generally running the latest GitLab versions, so any serious issues will be quickly found and fixed. > I have been using this: > >>>>> > > |# Note: if we are using a dedicated postgresql database server, all > postgresql changes need to be done on the actual postgresql server.| > |>>>| > |sudo yum install postgresql-server postgresql-contrib| > |sudo postgresql-setup initdb| > |sudo systemctl start postgresql| > |sudo systemctl enable postgresql| > |sudo -u postgres psql -c ||"SELECT version();"| > |sudo useradd -c ||"Mailman User"| |-s /bin/bash -m mailman| > |sudo -u postgres create role mailman;| > |sudo -u postgres createdb -O $USER mailman| > |sudo -u postgres psql -c ||"grant all privileges on database mailman to > mailman;"| > |sudo -u postgres psql -c ||"ALTER ROLE mailman WITH PASSWORD > 'secret123';"| > |sudo -u postgres psql -c ||"ALTER ROLE "||mailman||" WITH LOGIN;"| > |sudo echo ||"listen_addresses = '*' "| |>> > /var/lib/pgsql/10/data/postgresql.conf| > |sudo echo ||"# The user mailman will be able to access all databases > from a trusted location (any) without a password"| |>> > /var/lib/pgsql/data/pg_hba.conf| > |sudo echo ||"host all mailman 0.0.0.0/0 > trust"| |>> /var/lib/pgsql/data/pg_hba.conf| > |sudo systemctl restart postgresql| > |sudo ss -nlt | grep 5432| > |<<<| > |sudo yum install python36* --skip-broken -y| > |# check make sure you have both versions| > |sudo python --version| > |Python 2.7.5| > |sudo python3 --version| > |Python 3.6.8| > |sudo pip3 install psycopg2-binary| > |sudo chown mailman.mailman /opt/mailman| > |sudo chmod 755 /opt/mailman| > |# NOTE: The first initial mailman3 core setup has to be done manually.| > |# This is a important step to ensure the user "mailman" will run the > actual mailman3 application and not root.| > |# switch to user mailman| > |mailman# cd /opt/mailman| > |mailman# git clone https:||//gitlab.com/mailman/mailman.git| This gets the head of the GitLab master branch. > |mailman# cat <<EOT >> /opt/mailman/mailman/src/mailman/config/mailman.cfg| > |[devmode]| > |enabled: yes| > |recipient: root@localhost| > |[webservice]| > |hostname: localhost| > |port: 8001| > |show_tracebacks: yes| > |use_https: yes| > |[mta]| > |incoming: mailman.mta.postfix.LMTP| > |outgoing: mailman.mta.deliver.deliver| > |lmtp_host: localhost| > |lmtp_port: 8024| > |smtp_host: localhost| > |smtp_port: 25| > |[database]| > |class||: mailman.database.postgresql.PostgreSQLDatabase| > |url: postgres:||//mailman:secret123@<IP-ADDRESS or FQDN>/mailman| > |EOT| > |mailman# python3.6 -m venv venv-3.6| > |>>| > |mailman# source venv-3.6/bin/activate| > |(venv-3.6) [mailman@empire mailman]$ cd mailman| > |(venv-3.6) [mailman@empire mailman]$ python setup.py develop| > |(venv-3.6) [mailman@empire mailman]$ mailman info| > |<<| > | > | > | > | > |So I was told I don't have to do this, I can just simple do (rhel7) > | > |yum install pyhton3| > |pip install mailman| This gets the latest release from PyPI Other than that, you still have to do the configuration and install some dependencies as in the first method. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: users leaking across virtual hosts

by Mark Sapiro

On 3/25/22 12:49, Stanisław Findeisen via Mailman-users wrote: > Hi > > We are hosting several virtual hosts (mail host : web host is a 1:1 mapping with identical names), works fine, but it looks user accounts are somehow global, i.e. registering a new user in a new virtual host doesn't work if the user name or e-mail address are already in use in another virtual host. This happens on the Hyperkitty sign-up page: /accounts/signup/ , with the errors being "A user is already registered with this e-mail address." and "A user with that username already exists.". I am assuming this is a well-known limitation, which would require a serious internal redesign to fix; correct? These user registrations and logins are Django things so yes, they are global within the Django instance. > I was able to successfully login in the browser to a vhost using my user credentials from the original vhost (the one where the account was created) (the password was not auto-filled, of course, because of a different domain name). But how safe is this? How about subscribing to lists, posting etc.? Is this going to mess things up somehow? I don't think it's a problem. The user is a Django user for the web UI. The fact that there is or isn't a Django user with a particular email address has nothing to do with whether that address can post to a list. The user can subscribe to lists or not. The user can manage her subscriptions for lists to which she is subscribed and can subscribe to lists or not as controlled by list settings. Basically, registering as a user allows you to authenticate as that user for the web UI only. If you wanted to separate these user registrations by vhost, you'd need to run separate Django instances for each vhost, but I don't see a need to do that. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: integrating mm3 with postfix / lmtp

by Mark Sapiro

On 10/25/2017 05:41 PM, Fabian A. Santiago wrote: > > No to the domains part and I think virtual alias maps is needed: > > mail postfix/trivial-rewrite[19445]: warning: do not list domain xxx in BOTH virtual_mailbox_domains and relay_domains > Oct 25 20:39:19 mail postfix/trivial-rewrite[19445]: warning: do not list domain xxx in BOTH virtual_mailbox_domains and relay_domains > Oct 25 20:39:19 mail postfix/submission/smtpd[19441]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from pool-108-53-239-102.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net[108.53.239.102]: 550 5.1.1 <test123@xxx>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table; from=<fsantiago@xxx> to=<test123@xxx> proto=ESMTP helo=<[10.0.0.29]> (above slightly sanitized for return to the list) The issue here is your list domain cannot be a virtual_mailbox_domain or a virtual_alias_domain. I have the same issue on mail.python.org where we have both Mailman 2 and Mailman 3 lists @python.org. and python.org is a virtual_alias_domain. I have a group of MRs for a branch that implements "alias_domains" to deal with this. Basically it works by creating another (virtual_alias_maps) postfix_vmap mapping to map list addresses @python.org to addresses @x.python.org. Then the postfix_domains and postfix_lmtp maps have the x.python.org domain and there is a patch to mailman/runners/lmtp.py to map the x.python.org domain back to python.org. The various MRs are <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/merge_requests/202> for the core, <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailmanclient/merge_requests/18> for the REST bindings used by Postorius and <https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/merge_requests/186> to be able to set an alias_domain via Postorius. That's not all implemented at mail.python.org. What's there is the basic Postfix config, a bash script the generate the new mappings from the old and a simple patch to mailman/runners/lmtp.py. So, the bottom line is it can be done and it's in process, but it won't really be supported until Mailman 3.2. In the mean time, you just need to have a separate domain for your lists that isn't a virtual_*_domain. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

7 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Splitting hosts: mta&core vs postorius

by Mark Sapiro

On 6/22/20 12:21 PM, Ruth Ivimey-Cook wrote: > > The localhost address is coming in via the hosts file, which is a > relatively standard practice IMO. I could change it, but then perhaps > other things would not work. I would prefer to be able to specify what I > need. There are also things like systemd-resolvd which will do the > localhost-substitution for you even if /etc/hosts doesn't. I have done further testing. See my comment at <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/735#note_366074014>. You need to set hostname: in mailman.cfg to the actual external IP address of the Mailman host machine or to a name which resolves to that IP both internally and externally, and also set that host name/IP in the MAILMAN_REST_API_URL setting on the Postorius machine. > I did try with the gunicorn patch Mark mentioned (host = "0.0.0.0") and > changing the cfg file hostname back to the full name of the host, and > that now works!! -- in that the problem I showed earlier is gone. Remove that patch and do the above. > However I then get another issue. From the mailman.log file I now see in > the last few lines. For clarity I've numbered them like this "{1}": > > {1} [22/Jun/2020:00:58:24 +0000] "GET /3.1/domains HTTP/1.1" 200 320 "-" > "GNU Mailman REST client v3.3.1" > {2} [22/Jun/2020:00:58:24 +0000] "GET /3.1/domains/ch-bc.org.uk > HTTP/1.1" 200 215 "-" "GNU Mailman REST client v3.3.1" > {3} [22/Jun/2020:00:58:24 +0000] "GET > /3.1/domains/greyarea-web1.cam.ivimey.org/lists?advertised=true&count=0&page=1 > HTTP/1.1" 404 26 "-" "GNU Mailman REST client v3.3.1" > > At this point the browser screen reports "Something went wrong" and the > message "HTTP Error 404: {"title": "404 Not Found"}" Make the above changes and see if that solves this. If not, let us know and we'll try to help. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 1 month

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