Search results for "dO" - lists.mailman3.org

[MM3-users] Re: hyperkitty threads by month question

by Mark Sapiro

On 7/26/24 18:53, Bryan Fields wrote: > On 7/26/24 4:01 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> If this returns just the one message_id, I would then >> >> DELETE FROM hyperkitty_thread WHERE id = 35670; >> DELETE FROM hyperkitty_email WHERE id = 150555; > > It's giving an error due to a fk constraint on another table. I'm not > familiar with the db structure enough to be certain how to clean/fix it. Yes, you need to do these first. DELETE FROM hyperkitty_favorite WHERE thread_id = 35670; DELETE FROM hyperkitty_tagging WHERE thread_id = 35670; DELETE FROM hyperkitty_lastview WHERE thread_id = 35670; DELETE FROM hyperkitty_vote WHERE email_id = 150555; Not all those will exist, but then you should be able to DELETE FROM hyperkitty_thread WHERE id = 35670; DELETE FROM hyperkitty_email WHERE id = 150555; > I'm actually thinking I need to fix the archive mbox, then delete them and > re-import them once they are cleaned. Actually, that would be safest. Fix the mbox, delete the entire archive and re-run the import. >> Also, FYI, assuming those messages with very old Date: headers had >> reasonable unix from dates, the hyperkitty/contrib/cleanarch3 script >> would fix them, except you have to get the script from >> https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/blob/master/hyperkitty/contrib/clea… >> or https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/cleanarch3 because the script in the >> latest release has a bug. > > I tried the dry run option on your script and it gave a bunch of output > for bad > dates. This was absent on the one shipping with the source. What's > interesting > is that pipermail seems to have no issue with this, detecting the date > correctly. If I recall correctly, pipermail checks date skew and 'fixes' the dates in the archive, but they remain off in the mbox. > https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2000-January/137630.html > One other thing, I did notice a number of archives not showing up in > sequence > due to missing "In-Reply-To:" headers from the source. The first > message in > this is one like this, and pipermail in mmm2 seems to handle this by > referencing > the subject, > https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2002-April/151325.html, > where as in hyperkitty it's an orphaned thread. Yes, HyperKitty does not do threading by subject matching. It only threads based on In-Reply-To: and absent In-Reply-To:, only the last entry in References: if any. > Is the archive tool in pipermail's import more robust in this manner? > I'd argue > it's common to have missing In-Reply-To: headers where the subject and time > would need to be used to infer the likely thread. I'll agree this is a > major > violation of the relevant RFC's to be missing this, but many MUA's (M$) are > famous for doing just this. Yes, it's arguably a defect in HyperKitty to not implement Jamie Zawinski's threading algorithm <https://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html>, but it doesn't. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

1 year, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: configuring moderators per list

by Mark Sapiro

On 11/06/2017 02:33 PM, Dmitry Makovey wrote: > We're trying to configure moderator per list and so far we were only > able to add "superuser" accounts that can handle "Held messages", > "Members", "Banned addresses" etc. You can add ordinary users as Moderator or Owner of a list. I'm not sure what is and isn't currently working, but Moderators and Owners get notices of things like held messages and subscriptions and can approve or deny them. I think only Owners, not Moderators, should be able to change various list settings. Have you tried these things? Is it not working? > Is there a way to create special account per-list to manage some of the > aspects of particular ML without giving them all the permissions that > Superuser comes along with? An Owner of one list should not be able to do things to other lists. If you're looking for more granularity in permissions on a single list, Owners can do anything, and Moderators should only be able to deal with held requests, but there's no granularity beyond that. > In MM2 there was a ML password that moderator/list admin would use to > login to perform operations. > > Current setup allows list admins to add/delete existing lists which is > not desired. This was a site option in MM 2.1. I'm not sure about MM 3 -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

7 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Installing mailman 3

by Rafael Mora

Should Sign Up ?? Log In?? El vie., 21 jul. 2017 a las 18:56, Rafael Mora (<rafael.mora.guti(a)gmail.com>) escribió: > Nice! Up and running! > > How do I start using mailman? what are the steps?? > > REALLY thank you all for your patience and help! Really appreciated ! > > El vie., 21 jul. 2017 a las 18:48, Mark Sapiro (<mark(a)msapiro.net>) > escribió: > >> On 07/21/2017 04:43 PM, Rafael Mora wrote: >> > YEEEES! At last!!! I can see the web UI. >> > >> > Now I´m getting this message in the web UI: >> > >> > Something went wrong >> > Mailman REST API not available. Please start Mailman core. >> > >> > >> > >> > Where do I configure the REST API ????? >> >> >> So I guess you figured out that ALLOWED_HOSTS is a Django setting in >> settings.py or wherever your Django settings are. >> >> Now you have to start Mailman Core. In your Python 3 'env' where you >> installed Mailman Core, run 'bin/mailman start'. >> >> -- >> Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, >> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailman-users mailing list >> mailman-users(a)mailman3.org >> https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ >> > -- > > Atentamente / Best Regards > > Ing. Rafael Mora > -- Atentamente / Best Regards Ing. Rafael Mora

8 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Gmail emails bouncing - anybody seen this problem?

by Brian Carpenter

Make sure you have a SPF record setup for the sending domain. Also if this is a new IP address then ISPs such as Gmail and Yahoo recommend you "warm" up the IP address until its reputation is built up. However none of this has anything to do with Mailman 3. Just a FYI. Have a great day! Brian Carpenter EMWD.com brian(a)emwd.com -----Original Message----- From: worik <root(a)worik.org> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2019 5:25 PM To: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org Subject: [MM3-users] Gmail emails bouncing - anybody seen this problem? Friends On a fresh install (docker) on a fresh VPS I am getting all Mailman messages to Gmail addresses bouncing telling me I am sending too many messages. Has anybody else have this problem? I am getting the following error in mail.log: "Our system has detected an unusual rate of 550-5.7.1 unsolicited mail originating from your IP address. To protect our 550-5.7.1 users from spam, mail sent from your IP address has been blocked. 550-5.7.1 Please visit 550-5.7.1 https://support.google.com/mail/?p=UnsolicitedIPError to review our 550 5.7.1 Bulk Email Senders Guidelines. l26si395949wme.8 - gsmtp" I have been to the URL mentioned and exhausted my options there. Worik -- If not me then who? If not now then when? If not here then where? So, here I stand, I can do no other root(a)worik.org 021-1680650, (03) 4821804 Aotearoa (New Zealand) _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/

6 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: spanish localization

by Abhilash Raj

On Sat, Feb 13, 2021, at 9:21 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Victoriano Giralt writes: > > > I've visited Weblate, all Spanish strings are translated. Spanish > > is 100% translated, but, none of them have been "approved", > > whatever that is. It seems that a reviewer needs to approve the > > translation in order for them to be incorporated or released or > > whatever. I was sure I had reviewed everything between November 7th > > and the day Abhilash announced the release candidate and asked for > > translation review, but nothing has made it to the released > > version. > > > > Maybe there's something in the translation flow that we are doing wrong. > > I'm starting to miss the good old days when Mailman 2 translators just > > downloaded the .po files and returned them :-) > > Probably all it needs is for someone other than the submitter to check > a box. I doubt there is an assigned reviewer/owner, just any > translator registered for that language. That's the way Debian used > to work, anyway, and it seems like a good way for open source to work. > > @Abhilash, you set up Weblate, right? Do you know anything about this? https://docs.weblate.org/en/latest/workflows.html This is the documentation from Weblate about the whole workflow. There is a Project level setting which mandates that a Reviewer review and approve all the translated strings, but that is turned off for GNU Mailman project. -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

4 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Disabling the version disclosure.

by ninad＠iitb.ac.in

Steve from another mailman list suggested the below solutions. 1st method suggested worked. This is just for this group's information. Thank Steve for the solution. --------------------------------------- Suggested solution ------------------------------------------------------- It helps to explain why you don't want to change the HTML code, because there are several ways to do this, with different implications both for the page's appearance and for future maintenance. The visually cleanest way to do this is to copy the files site-packages/postorius/templates/postorius/base.html site-packages/hyperkitty/templates/hyperkitty/base.html to /etc/mailman3/templates/postorius/base.html /etc/mailman3/templates/hyperkitty/base.html search for '_VERSION' and delete or edit the version stanzas near the end of those files, add TEMPLATES[0]['DIRS'].append('/etc/mailman3/templates') somewhere in /etc/mailman3/settings.py, and restart mailman-web (typically as root, using 'systemctl restart mailmanweb'). Alternatively and less visually appealing you can clear the version variable itself with a file 'site-packages/version_hack.py' containing the lines def suppress_version(request): return {"HYPERKITTY_VERSION": "Wouldn't you like to know?", "POSTORIUS_VERSION": "Wouldn't you like to know?"} ... you probably want to change the strings to empty strings ... and add the lines TEMPLATES[0]['OPTIONS']['context_processors'].append( 'version_hack.suppress_version' ) somewhere in /etc/mailman3/settings.py, and restart mailman-web. The former method of overriding the templates is a supported API, and very unlikely to be obsoleted any time soon. The latter method of patching the variables is something of a hack, and also leaves the tags like "Postorius version" visible in the page. Steve ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7 months, 1 week

[MM3-users] Re: If I manually add email addresses to a list and then delete them, how do i permanent delete them from Users?

by Eggert Ehmke

/ I saw output like:/ <User "Real Name1" (250400693957149667060114911620088407125) at 0x7f9435096640> deleted from Mailman <User "Real Name2" (52978839424924170731978420609240089133) at 0x7f9435096760> deleted from Mailman So your users had no real names configured? Cheers, Eggert Am Dienstag, 25. April 2023, 23:14:27 CEST schrieb Andrew Hodgson: > Mark Sapiro wrote: > >The script at https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/clean_users.py has been > >updated. As before, it has settings to control whether Django users are > >deleted if there is a corresponding Mailman user with no memberships or > >only if there is no corresponding Mailman user, and whether or not Mailman > >users with no >memberships are deleted. > Thanks, I ran this script and it did delete a load of Mailman users, I got > output similar to this: <User "" (47600399411039288509336192576257642185) > at 0x7fb17a6a35e0> deleted from Mailman > > Why aren't we seeing the actual address here? > > Thanks. > Andrew. > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > Archived at: > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message > /BTJUT6FGNGK5ARADPD6VW37VMHQG2GWJ/ > > This message sent to eggert(a)eehmke.de ___________________________________________ Mailman's content filtering has removed the following MIME parts from this message. Replaced multipart/alternative part with first alternative.

2 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: MM3 occasionally chokes (?)

by Abhilash Raj

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 9:46 AM, Dmitry Makovey wrote: > Thanks for fast response Abhilash! > > See inline for responses: > > On 3/18/19 9:24 AM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, at 9:14 AM, Dmitry Makovey wrote: > >> In the last couple of month we've observed some odd behavior from MM3 > >> (namely the core) where it seems like email that is about to be sent to > >> a large-ish mailing list (10K users) has been processed yet never gets > >> sent out until we restart the core. > > > > This is indeed weird, I don't think 10k is too much, but it also depends > > on your MTA. How fast do they allow sending emails and if there is any > > rate limiting. > > I'm using Mailu.io for MTA. We're controlling it so there's not much > throttling as I've whitelisted mailman to send anything over LMTP. Mailman sends out email using SMTP and receives it from MTA using LMTP. > > > I wouldn't necessarily consider this a performance problem in Core, > > since it is still just processing only one email. All it needs to do is > > send them all out, which is where the problem should be. > > inferred assumption is that mailman-core loses LMTP connection with > Mailu stack. but then upon restart of service it regains it? Mailman acts as am SMTP client sending out emails via MTA. AFAIK, Mailman 3 recycles SMTP connections after certain number of emails are sent out. You can configure how many emails are sent-out per-connection and when should each connection be recycled. You can also disable the recycling altogether and always keep a connection open to the MTA. See [1] here for detailed docs. [1]: https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/mta/docs/connection.ht… Again, copying from the docs, these are some extra MTA related settings that you may want to change: --- # Ceiling on the number of recipients that can be specified in a single SMTP # transaction. Set to 0 to submit the entire recipient list in one # transaction. max_recipients: 500 # Ceiling on the number of SMTP sessions to perform on a single socket # connection. Some MTAs have limits. Set this to 0 to do as many as we like # (i.e. your MTA has no limits). Set this to some number great than 0 and # Mailman will close the SMTP connection and re-open it after this number of # consecutive sessions. max_sessions_per_connection: 0 # Maximum number of simultaneous subthreads that will be used for SMTP # delivery. After the recipients list is chunked according to max_recipients, # each chunk is handed off to the SMTP server by a separate such thread. If # your Python interpreter was not built for threads, this feature is disabled. # You can explicitly disable it in all cases by setting max_delivery_threads # to 0. max_delivery_threads: 0 --- max_sessions_per_connection is by default set to 0, so that shouldn't be causing any problems. For a list of 10k members with `max_delivery_threads` set to to default(500), Mailman could be sequentially sending out emails in 20 (10k/500) connections, which could be causing the delay that you see. You could increase the threads or if your MTA can handle it, set the max_delivery_threads to 20 and see if that helps? > > > I'd imagine debug logging on outgoing runner should give some more > > pointers on what is going on. > > > > You can configure the smtp runner to log extra information (copied from > > docs)[1] > > > > [1]: > > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/config/docs/config.html > > awesome - I'll give it a go. thanks for the pointer. > > > I'd also recommend looking into MTA logs for anything un-usual. > > we briefly did , but nothing stood out. > > >> troubleshooting/digging before I just restart the core (which by the way > >> takes about 45min to fully start... which is another puzzle to solve at > > > > How do you measure that it takes 45 mins to start? > > normally it's "docker ps" command output along with "docker top" so once > I see all the sub-processes kicked off I'm assuming core is started and > from that point it's anywhere between 35 and 45min before I can get any > *response* from core (i.e. mailman-web complains, REST commands fail, etc.) Maybe we should discuss this in another thread? REST Runner (and other runners) shouldn't be taking this long to boot up. > > > What database backend are you using? > > Postgres. The whole setup is docker-setup (0.1.7 version of containers > at this point). > > > -- > Sr System and DevOps Engineer SoM IRT > > > Attachments: > * signature.asc -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

6 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Hyperkitty import from mailman2

by Simon Hanna

On 12/22/2017 03:39 PM, Sten Aus wrote: > Hi > > I have installed mailman3 - it looks very great! > > Now I wanted to try import from mailman2 mbox, so i did: > > python2 manage.py hyperkitty_import --settings settings --ignore-mtime > -v 3 --since 2010-01-01 -l test(a)list.domain.com /tmp/test.mbox > > It shows that it have sucessfully imported all emails and I can see > them from database (sqlite3), but I cannot see them from GUI > (hyperkitty). Only thing I can see is this inactive "test" list. > How did you try to access them using Hyperkitty? Can you try doing that while logged in as a django superuser? Could you try using a permalink for a message? If you can access the files from the database you should be able to construct the urls using the list name and the message_id_hash of a message. You should try this using DEBUG=True in the settings.py. The URL would be similar to http://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message/… Another option would be to check if you can access the data using a python shell. `python manage.py shell` to open a python shell preconfigured for Hyperkitty and then input the following two lines: from hyperkitty.models.email import Email Email.objects.all() This should print out all the messages that are stored in the database. (You can limit them by appending "[10:]", or any other python slice) What do you see in the UI? Is it somewhat similar to http://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org ?

7 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Hyperkitty performance problem

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Tobias Diekershoff writes: > On 22.11.24 07:59, Tobias Diekershoff wrote: > > so far we could not find the reason behind the performance > > problem. Since you're already running two allegedly identical systems, have you tried hitting the experimental one with the "do what the developers recommend" hammer? That is, blow away the Debian packages in favor of a vanilla installation from source in a virtual environment (and without --system-site-packages!)? It's impossible to be sure what's going on in a Debian package environment because not only Mailman, but any of the scores of packages that Mailman 3 depends on may have been patched or reconfigured by Debian. > To rule out virtualization problems Do you mean a VM, which should not cause a problem, or a container, which is known to be tricky to configure? (Note, I've not heard of it causing the kinds of problems you describe.) > in our setup, we tried to migrate MM3 to a bare metal server in the > data center. After importing the database for MM3 and Hyperkitty to > the new postgresql server MM3 wcomplained about > > MultipleResultsFound: Multiple rows were found when one or none > > was required [in the listarchiver table] I've seen that in a migration from a Mailman 2 site to Mailman 3. Once I removed the duplicate rows in the archiver table, it stopped. I don't know why it happened, but it was a small number of lists (4 or 5 out of 20k), and at most one extra per (list, archiver) pair. I suspect it carried over from the Mailman 2 instance. I no longer have access to that system to confirm, sadly. > However the duplicates are added back to the listarchiver table for > all archivers (mhonarc, hyperkitty, mail-archive and prototype) > even though only hyperkitty is activated. By "duplicates are added back" do you mean something like this: mailman=> select * from listarchiver; id | mailing_list_id | name | _is_enabled ----+-----------------+--------------+------------- 1 | 1 | mhonarc | f 2 | 1 | mail-archive | f 3 | 1 | prototype | t 4 | 1 | hyperkitty | t 5 | 2 | mhonarc | f 6 | 2 | mail-archive | f 7 | 2 | prototype | t 8 | 2 | hyperkitty | t where each list has one of each archiver whether or not that archiver is active? This is correct behavior, as long as the archiving/*.py and mailman_hyperkitty.py files are importable by Mailman core. Or by "duplicates are added back" do you mean this? mailman=> select * from listarchiver; id | mailing_list_id | name | _is_enabled ----+-----------------+--------------+------------- 1 | 1 | mhonarc | f 2 | 1 | mhonarc | f 3 | 1 | mail-archive | f 4 | 1 | mail-archive | f 5 | 1 | prototype | t 6 | 1 | prototype | t 7 | 1 | hyperkitty | t 8 | 1 | hyperkitty | t 9 | 2 | mhonarc | f 10 | 2 | mhonarc | f 11 | 2 | mail-archive | f 12 | 2 | mail-archive | f 13 | 2 | prototype | t 14 | 2 | prototype | t 15 | 2 | hyperkitty | t 16 | 2 | hyperkitty | t (don't take the id -> (list_id, archiver) mapping too seriously). In the multiple instances of an archiver per list case, which are enabled? > We tried to add a constrain on the table to only allow one entry > per list and archiver, but that caused the runner to fail and the > message to be shunt. > > > Uncaught runner exception: (raised as a result of Query-invoked > > autoflush; consider using a session.no_autoflush block if this > > flush is occurring prematurely) (psycopg2.errors.UniqueViolation) > > duplicate key value violates unique constraint "workaround" > > DETAIL: Key (mailing_list_id, name)=(98, mhonarc) already > > exists. This doesn't make any sense. That appears to be the listarchiver table. As far as I can tell in a quick grep, the only place that is mutated is in mailman/models/mailinglist.py:643 (line number is current HEAD), which happens whenever the list checks for its active archivers. It's initialized lazily for each list in that place. @public @implementer(IListArchiverSet) class ListArchiverSet: @dbconnection def __init__(self, store, mailing_list): self._mailing_list = mailing_list system_archivers = {} for archiver in config.archivers: system_archivers[archiver.name] = archiver # Add any system enabled archivers which aren't already associated # with the mailing list. for archiver_name in system_archivers: exists = store.query(ListArchiver).filter( ListArchiver.mailing_list == mailing_list, ListArchiver.name == archiver_name).one_or_none() if exists is None: store.add(ListArchiver(mailing_list, archiver_name, system_archivers[archiver_name])) As you can see, the .add is protected by "if exists". That code has not changed since v3.3.8, which is what is in Bookworm according to "apt list mailman3". If that is so in your installation, I'm pretty sure the problem is somewhere between the SQLAlchemy API and the RDBMS, not in Mailman itself. And if that's true, that might explain the weirdness in archiving as well. What version of PostgreSQL are you using? of SQLAlchemy? Are both the original system with performance problems and the new one accessing the same PostgreSQL server, or is there are separate PostgreSQL instance for each? Steve

8 months, 2 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: not correct language in subject(s)

by Mark Sapiro

On 5/23/23 06:24, Jens Günther wrote: > > I find those changes, but: in the merge request there is mentioned a > /usr/lib/python3.10/site-packages/mailman/testing/mailman-fr.po > > -> but I don't find a mailman-de.po ... is it maybe that? That file was for a test only. The German message catalog is at mailman/messages/de/LC_MESSAGES/. That directory should contain a mailman.po and a mailman.mo. If there is no mailman.mo, it needs to be created. The source distribution contains a generate_mo.sh script to generate these for all languages, but you can do the German one by changing to the mailman/messages/de/LC_MESSAGES/ directory in the running installation and doing msgfmt mailman.po -o mailman.mo >> Please be more specific than `all types of system mails`. Which >> specific message subjects are not translated. > > It's exactly as mentioned in issue 993 the welcome and goodbye-messages > that I don't see translated. > > But also other examples: > - bounce-mail for the user that moderator approval is necessary (there > the text is in german, but the reason is in english) > - approval-mail for moderator (also text is in german, but subject and > reason in english) I'll look into these. If you don't have the mailman/messages/de/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo file, this could be the reason, but there may be a bug. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Apple Mail encoding again

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Mark Sapiro writes: > That combination at least produces multipart/signed messages with > multipart/* parts containing a Content-Transfer-Encoding: header. > > The Python 3 email library considers this to be a > InvalidMultipartContentTransferEncodingDefect() message defect. Merely containing C-T-E is not an error per RFC 2045, although it seems to consider it a stupid thing to do. If present, it may be "binary", "7-bit", or "8-bit" (below summarized as "cleartext"). Did Apple Mail apply a non-cleartext C-T-E? Or has an RFC tightening that restriction been published since? (I don't know why it would, though.) Even with a non-cleartext C-T-E, it seems reasonable for Mailman to treat it as application/octet-stream and pass it through, unless the list is configured to do something like strip application/octet-stream or that requires decoding like spam-filtering (Postel principle, although one could argue it shouldn't be sent on on the same principle -- ah, the joys of being an e-mail Mediator). That would be especially true it if were quoted-printable, since any relevant MIME headers would (presumably) be pure ASCII and therefore unencoded. > multipart/signed > multipart/mixed * > text/plain > message/rfc822 (the attached message) * > multipart/signed * > text/plain > application/pgp-signature > text/plain (an empty plain text part) > text/plain (a quote of my message to you) > application/pgp-signature It's true that Apple Mail is horked if it produces that structure with C-T-E in the indicated places (but we already knew that :-( ). Steve

3 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: redirecting -bounces replies

by Nelson Strother

If you are using Postfix with mysql you could use an entry in the virtual_aliases table by doing something like: MariaDB [mailserver]> REPLACE INTO mailserver.virtual_aliases (id,domain_id,source,destination) VALUES ('N', '1', 'ListNameHere-bounces(a)example.org', 'person(a)example.org'); Query OK, 1 row affected (0.010 sec) where the value 'N' is one larger than the largest id entry already present in said table .... Cheers, Nelson On 10/31/24 19:17, Hirayama, Pat wrote: > Greetings, > > Is it possible to redirect the -bounces alias of a specific list so that it also goes to a person, in addition to the normal bounces processing for that list? > > In Mailman2, I know that I could do that by modifying the aliases table. > > I've been poking around in Mailman3, but haven't managed to figure out which container I need to be looking at. And rather than keep spinning, I figured that I'd ask the hive mind, since I'm sure one of you can quickly point me to the correct location. > > Thanks! > > -p > > > > Pat Hirayama > Pronouns: he/him/his > Systems Engineer > IT | Systems Engineering - Infrastructure > Fred Hutch Cancer Center > O 206.667.4856 > > phirayam(a)fredhutch.org<mailto:phirayam@fredhutch.org> > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list --mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email tomailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > Archived at:https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/mess… > > This message sent tojustfixit(a)marilynstrother.com

1 year

[MM3-users] Re: Verification links to localhost

by Odhiambo Washington

On Sun, Feb 5, 2023 at 2:16 PM Lars Bjørndal <lars(a)lamasti.net> wrote: > Hi! > > You wrote: > > > On Sun, Feb 5, 2023 at 10:23 AM Lars Bjørndal <[1]lars(a)lamasti.net> > wrote: > > > > Hi, and than you for your quick reply! > > > > You wrote: > > > > > On Sun, Feb 5, 2023 at 9:51 AM Lars Bjørndal <[1][2] > lars(a)lamasti.net> > > wrote: > > > > > > The verification link I get back when trying to add an account, > > referes > > > to localhost, e.g. > > > > > > To confirm this is correct, go to [2][3] > https://localhost:8000/ > > accounts/ > > > confirm-email/Mw:1... > > > > > > Where do I change that? > > > > > > > > > What do you have as POSTORIUS_TEMPLATE_BASE_URL value in settings? > > > > I don't have this variable anywhere in /etc/mailman3. However, I > found it > > here: > > > > ./venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages/mailman_web/settings/ > > mailman.py:POSTORIUS_TEMPLATE_BASE_URL = '[4]http://localhost:8000' > > > > In which config file should that variable be set, and how do I set > it so > > that mailman can works for multiple domains? > > > > > > Because it is still too early in your quest to get to run Mailman3, I'd > advise > > that you take your time to follow this guide: > > [5]https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html# > > > It is the official installation guide. > > Yes, I've followed it, maybe with some errors. > > > There is a step where it tells you to create a file named settings.py, > in a > > particular path. You really need that step. > > Yes, I have the file /etc/mailman3/settings.py, but in that file, I didn't > have the variable in question. > Oh, in that case, it does not appear in settings.py. I have followed that guide, but I always login to the /admin UI to create a site (and a mail domain tied to a site) before I create my lists. Perhaps that's why I haven't encountered the problem you are seeing. > > > Regarding your question about multiple domains, that is already well > taken care > > of when you create a list either via Postorius or the cli: > > (venv) [mailman@gw /opt/mailman]$mailman create [6]list1(a)domain1.name > > (venv) [mailman@gw /opt/mailman]$mailman create [7] > another-lis(a)domain2.name > > > > Mailman will know how to handle this in conjunction with your MTA. > > That's right. But, still, when I set the SITE_ID = 0, I get an server > error when trying to connect. I also get mail from Django that states the > error. I'm not sure how to fix it. > How many sites did you create already? IIRC, this SITE_ID = 0 should be accompanied with FILTER_VHOST = True -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-)

2 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: can't get mail into mailman3 in docker

by Stephen J. Turnbull

bob B writes: > Anyone have any ideas? First, what docker configuration are you using? One supplied by the Mailman project? If not, you need to tell us more about what's going on. If so, are there any containers other than those running the Mailman suite (Mailman 3 core, Postorius, HyperKitty)? In mydestination you have mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost, mydomain.mydomain.com I do not understand the "localhost.$mydomain" entry. I guess that's a Postfix-ism, but I can't find any documentation about it. You could try taking it out (this is a very random suggestion). You say you have no /etc/postfix-mailman.cfg. Where are you looking for it? That file will only exist in the container, not in the host OS. (If it were in the host OS, it would be located somewhere like /opt/mailman/core/postfix-mailman.cfg.) Try `find /opt/mailman/core -name postfix-mailman.cfg`, although "automatically" might mean it's generated in the container when it starts. Abhilash would know, but he doesn't seem to be available. I really don't think it's the issue because I assume "bmimailmandr1" is the Docker container running Mailman core. If so Postfix is connecting to the configured LMTP port on localhost which is what it's supposed to do from the configuration. Since the container's Postfix appears to be connecting to the right place but the connection is refused, that Mailman core may not be running. For more help you'll have to wait for Abhilash. Steve

4 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: Timeouts

by Mark Sapiro

On 4/25/21 4:37 PM, tlhackque via Mailman-users wrote: > The described timeouts are something that hyperkitty ought to be able to > avoid. For apache, the timeout is idle time between blocks of output. > Hyperkitty can avoid this by generating the archive in segments (based > on size, or elapsed time), flushing its output buffer, generating a > multi-file archive, and/or using Transfer-Encoding: chunked (chunked > doesn't work for http/2). It ought to be able to break the work into > blocks of "n" messages & do something to generate output. Besides > avoiding timeouts, working in segments allows the GUI to display > meaningful progress (e.g. if you're loading with XMLHttpRequest, > "onprogress") It really oughtn't be up to the user to break up the > request. It is not the web server that times out. I'm not sure about uwsgi because I don't use it, but the timeouts I see are on servers that use gunicorn as the WSGI interface to Django and the timeout is in a gunicorn worker. This is controlled by the timeout setting in the gunicorn config. <https://docs.gunicorn.org/en/stable/settings.html#timeout> Note that even 300 seconds is not enough to download the entire <https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/> archive. It may be possible to get HyperKitty to chunk the output to avoid this, but it doesn't currently do that. Care to submit an MR? -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman sends Welcome emails, but does not send [List] postings emails

by Nelson Strother

As you had suggested, the `in` runner/queue was missing in action. Given your insight about the limitations of `mailman restart`, I looked back at the log from the time of the preceding `mailman start`, and found that there was NOT a line such as: in runner started. in that instance! Watching the logs on each subsequent `mailman start`, the good news is that the `in` runner/queue has been started each time; the bad news is that slightly more than half of the time one or two runners are NOT shown as starting. The other runners/queues sometimes missing in action per the log file have been `retry`, `task`, `nntp`, `archive`, and `pipeline`. No errors are being recorded in the mailman log files. This is GNU Mailman 3.3.8 via `pip install mailman` on Debian 5.10.179-1 (2023-05-12) running on a shared system where VMware gives this server enough cycles that `mailman start` and `mailman stop` each consume from 20 minutes to an hour of wall clock time, so I do not issue those commands recreationally, attempting to keep the system available for users. What should I do to help understand the cause for these failures? Would not it be helpful for this limitation of restart to be included in: mailman restart --help with a suggestion to use `mailman stop` and `mailman start` instead? On 6/1/23 11:16, Mark Sapiro wrote: > When you issued a restart and the logs show runners restarting, did > all the runners restart or was one or more missing.

2 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Problems with SPOOFED_UNAUTH

by Stephen J. Turnbull

M.Ede via Mailman-users writes: > Mark Sapiro wrote: > > > The following patch will remove the header. > > Thanks for the hint, I removed authentication-results header as > well as arc-authentication-results with your patch, but rspamd > still results in SPOOFED_UNAUTH. I don't think Mark was suggesting that would help with the SPOOFED_UNAUTH problem. I read his mail as saying that it needs to be fixed because it breaks anonymous_list. I don't think that rspamd is paying attention to any of the smtp.*from information because the one that matters is the one in the SMTP MAIL FROM command, which only appears in the message header by accident. (It could be some kind of machine learning thing, but I doubt that would get dinged for 50 points.) If you're still having issues 1. Does your problem resemble any of those in the links Mark sent? 2. Where is rspamd running? On your host or at Mailcow? 3. Who is sender(a)t-online.de, is it a placeholder for a random user, or is it an address associated with your Mailcow account? 4. Are my.mailserv.er and lists.list.domain the same host? If not, what is their relationship? 5. Where are you running the ARC and DKIM processors? 6. Do you have Mailman set to strip DKIM signatures? (I find it hard to believe that a major ESP like t-online doesn't sign outgoing email.) 7. What is the list address? Specifically, is it @lists.list.domain, or is it @list.domain? You need a DKIM public key record in DNS for the exact domain of the list as it is added to From. 8. Do you have a non-permissive DMARC policy for lists.list.domain? 9. How do you send list mail to Mailcow? (a) Regular SMTP directly to the Mailcow MX (b) Regular SMTP indirectly via a different host that is not authorized in SPF to send mail for your list domain (c) Authenticated SMTP (usually SASL on port 587)? Something is definitely odd about your ARC installation. It should not be possible for ARC verification to fail within the administrative domain that applied the ARC headers, because in theory the ARC signature and seal are performed on the *outgoing* message at the administrative boundary. Also, in the example in your third post[1] the server names in the ARC headers doesn't match: ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; d=lists.serv.er; ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mailserv.er; ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=lists.serv.er; Maybe that's just a typo, but if not that could be the problem, I'm pretty sure those are expected to match. I think the missing DKIM signature may be important. One interpretation of "SPOOFED_UNAUTH" is "I think it's spoofed because I can't authenticate it". In question 9 above, if you send mail via (a) SPF *could* authenticate it, and via (c) that's pretty good authentication, but DKIM is best and Mailcow may insist on it. [1] <175750349214.87167.13924287800652306747(a)mail.mailman3.org> Aaargh, gmx.de has a non-permissive DMARC policy -- hope you're not deleting dupes because that almost always means you don't get the list version. -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan

1 month, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman installation results in KeyError: 'env_py'

by Marvin Gülker

Hi, Am 22. October 2017 um 11:47 Uhr -0700 schrieb Abhilash Raj <maxking(a)asynchronous.in>: > As Simon mentioned, try using DEBUG=False, if you don't already have > that. With DEBUG=True, you should see emails printed in a `emails` > directory under `mailman-suite_project` directory. Bingo! Man, I was not seeing the forest for the trees. I should have peeked inside that emails folder. And yes, changing the DEBUG flag resolves the problem and emails now go out as they should. My bad! Thank you! > > That being said, the enormous number of configuration files to consider > > and dozens of cross-references to other pages in the docs make the > > installation guide hard to follow; it also lacks logical structure in my > > opinion, when it refers to parts of the configuration which are later > > explained. For someone like me who never programmed a Django application > > (Ruby dev) this is all pretty cryptic. Especially, that some parts of > > information are on <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/index.html> whereas > > other parts are scattered over readthedocs.io makes it very > > complicated. > > There are only two primary configuration files (there are a few more for > finer configurations ;-): Mh, mailman.cfg, settings.py, and hyperkitty.py are three. But I agree, I exaggerated. > All the settings mentioned in the documentation go to either of these > files, except, when configuring web server and mail server. Please open > an issue[2] if it is not clear where a particular configuration snippet > goes and we will fix it. I'll open an issue later; for now off the top of my head so I won't forget I came over these problems with the docs: * The linked installation guide for Sass (<http://sass-lang.com/install>) does not include any C/C++ implementation you speak of. * The mailman-suite's settings.py includes a handler for Less, which is not mentioned in any documentation. * It's officially suggested to use the "fhs" filesystem path layout. It's not documented that you need to create the exact directories and change permissions accordingly; even worse, if one uses this layout, Mailman tries to write into /sbin, which only the package manager is allowed to do. Thus, don't recommend that layout in <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/config-core.html>. * This page: <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/config-core.html> does not mention that the "postfix_lmtp" and "postfix_domains" files are *generated* by Mailman. I spend quite some time looking for these files before I found in the Mailman Core docs that they're generated and it was not an error in my installation. * This page: <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/config-core.html> configures the LMTP server and the REST API server for the same TCP port (8024). This clashes. * This page: <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/config-web.html> should mention the thing with the DEBUG variable we've successfully worked through in this thread. * There's no mention of how to create the initial superuser on <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/>, it is hidden down in <https://postorius.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup.html>, where however there's no mention of the mailman-suite, but some kind of "example_project". It was unclear to me whether this now applied to me or not. * <http://docs.list.org/en/latest> contains quite some pip install commands (duplicated from the postorius/hyperkitty/core docs), but it's missing "$ pip3 install mailman-hyperkitty", which is only mentioned in <http://hyperkitty.readthedocs.io/en/latest/install.html> in the text body (but not as a command block). * This page: <http://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/mta.html> uses "configuration: python:mailman.config.postfix" in the introductory text without explanation, but down in the Postfix-specific block the directive is missing with no explanation. I opted to include it, but I don't know whether that's now correct or not. The overall problem I had with the docs is that they can't be followed top-down. One has to refer to the subproject docs if something is unclear, then searching in them until one finds what one was looking for (even if one doesn't know what one is looking for, as with the superuser creation command). I totally appreciate the detailed subproject-docs approach, but you should follow it consequently then. That is, do not duplicate some information from the subproject docs in the mailman-suite docs. It creates the impression as if the mailman-suite docs are complete, which they aren't. Instead, the mailman-suite docs should use explicit references, for example: 1. Do this... 2. Now follow the procedure outlined in [Postorius Installation link] 3. Do something else... 4. Follow the procudedure in [Hyperkitty installation link] That way, the Mailman installation guide would be less of a puzzle. It however might just be me. I apologise if I sound silly. Greetings Marvin -- Blog: https://www.guelkerdev.de PGP/GPG ID: F1D8799FBCC8BC4F

8 years

[MM3-users] Docker Support Sucks

by Brian Carpenter

Ok, now that I got that out of the way. Maybe I can get some help here for a Docker Installation of Mailman 3. I updated a Maxking's Docker installation to Postorius 1.3.3. It made my client's list unusable to a continual stream of removals due to ghost bounce processes. So, I want to totally move away from the use of Docker (mainly because I have found it buggy and the support is simply lacking) and install Mailman 3 for this client from source. However I need to get an export of their list members. But of course, I can't. Rest API times out and I don't know how to apply the instructions I was given to fix it and I don't have days to way for one. So please help. I increased the gunicorn workers to 4, hoping that would allow me to do the CSV export. No. So was given these instructions: ### The issues seems to be due to timeout not due to high load. You want to increase the timeout for gunicorn and you can do that by specifying a gunicorn.ini config file: [webservice] configuration: /path/to/gunicorn.cfg and then in the gunicorn.cfg you can add [gunicorn] timeout = 90 graceful_timeout = 30 ### I applied the above changes to /opt/mailman/core/mailman-extra.cfg and created the gunicorn.cfg file. Restarted the docker container (mailman-core) and no access to Postorius due to no REST api. After restarting docker-mailman, I can't access Postorius due to the following error: ERROR 2020-07-20 20:16:27,351 15 postorius Mailman REST API not available Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/python3.6/site-packages/urllib3/connection.py", line 160, in _new_conn (self._dns_host, self.port), self.timeout, **extra_kw File "/usr/lib/python3.6/site-packages/urllib3/util/connection.py", line 84, in create_connection raise err File "/usr/lib/python3.6/site-packages/urllib3/util/connection.py", line 74, in create_connection sock.connect(sa) ConnectionRefusedError: [Errno 111] Connection refused During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/python3.6/site-packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py", line 677, in urlopen chunked=chunked, File "/usr/lib/python3.6/site-packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py", line 392, in _make_request conn.request(method, url, **httplib_request_kw) File "/usr/lib/python3.6/http/client.py", line 1254, in request self._send_request(method, url, body, headers, encode_chunked) File "/usr/lib/python3.6/http/client.py", line 1300, in _send_request self.endheaders(body, encode_chunked=encode_chunked) File "/usr/lib/python3.6/http/client.py", line 1249, in endheaders self._send_output(message_body, encode_chunked=encode_chunked) File "/usr/lib/python3.6/http/client.py", line 1036, in _send_output self.send(msg) File "/usr/lib/python3.6/http/client.py", line 974, in send self.connect() File "/usr/lib/python3.6/site-packages/urllib3/connection.py", line 187, in connect conn = self._new_conn() File "/usr/lib/python3.6/site-packages/urllib3/connection.py", line 172, in _new_conn self, "Failed to establish a new connection: %s" % e urllib3.exceptions.NewConnectionError: <urllib3.connection.HTTPConnection object at 0x7f96340a2e10>: Failed to establish a new con$ During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/python3.6/site-packages/requests/adapters.py", line 449, in send timeout=timeout File "/usr/lib/python3.6/site-packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py", line 725, in urlopen Commenting out "configuration: /opt/mailman/gunicorn.cfg" brings Postorius back up. I am really frustrated here. All I want to do is export a 3000 member list and I can't. Updating Mailman 3 using new Docker images shouldn't break a stable installation either. Please help. Brian

5 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Dump/restore users (with passwords) via API

by Dmitry Makovey

On 09/17/2018 12:39 PM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > On Mon, Sep 17, 2018, at 12:15 PM, Dmitry Makovey wrote: >> We are trying to dump/restore users using API calls and it seems >> that API allows us to dump password hashes (a good thing), but then >> API does not allow to insert users back using saved password hashes >> - only cleartext passwords. > > I'd say that is intentional. You don't want people to be setting up > hashes as passwords. > >> Aside from create_user is there any other way to create >> users/change their password? > > Not that I know of, not using the API atleast. You could potentially > use the low level API that inserts records in the database or use SQL > to dump and restore that data. > > What do you use the Core's user/password for? Currently, the user > passwords are basically just a carry-over from Mailman2 and there > shouldn't be any use for it. I have been considering removing that > completely have Postorius do all the authentication/authorization. > > Email based authentication should rely on more reliable identities > like email signatures, intead of having to send cleartext passwords > over email. I think I am asking about the username/password auth for postorious and how to dump/restore it. At present we have no tools for dump/restoring users so that's what we're trying to build. -- Sr System and DevOps Engineer SoM IRT

7 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Does hyperkitty show JPEGs in line and what about attachments?

by tlhackque

On 11-Jul-17 12:54, Jason Glazer wrote: > I run several MailMan 2.1 mailing lists and some subscribers are > frustrated by the way pipermail deals with JPEGs that are embedded in > the messages and also with how attachments are handled. Does hyperkitty > in Mailman 3.1 do better on these issues. > > Assuming this message gets archived, I am going to try embedding a > small picture right here: > > Hopefully that shows up in the archive. I won't add an attachment > because the list may not allow it but I'm curious how those are > handled. > > Thanks > > Jason > -- > Jason Glazer, P.E., BEMP, GARD Analytics, 90.1 ECB chair, 209 chair > Admin for onebuilding.org building performance mailing lists > I know that this particular list is setup to strip HTML and only distribute text/plain. I haven't gotten to HyperKitty configuration yet (a lot of plumbing yet to do for my environment), but I too am interested in having HTML mail archived & viewable as an HTML MUA would show it. I pretty much gave up on the 2.1 archiver for the HTML lists. Instead, I subscribed a mailbox to the lists, and served it to the community read-only with IMAP. Dovecot handles private 'seen' flags for shared mailboxes, so this let people use their favorite e-mail client to browse the archive. I'm hoping that I won't have to reconstruct this for my new environment...but it's an option.

8 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: The doubled entries issue

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Lars Bjørndal writes: > select * from listarchiver where name = 'mhonarc'; > > and get: > > id | mailing_list_id | name | _is_enabled > ----+-----------------+---------+------------- > 1 | 2 | mhonarc | f > 9 | 4 | mhonarc | f > 13 | 5 | mhonarc | f > 17 | 6 | mhonarc | f > 21 | 8 | mhonarc | f > 25 | 9 | mhonarc | f > 29 | 10 | mhonarc | f > 33 | 7 | mhonarc | f > 37 | 11 | mhonarc | f > 41 | 12 | mhonarc | f > 45 | 13 | mhonarc | f > 49 | 14 | mhonarc | f > 53 | 16 | mhonarc | f > (13 rows) > > mailman=# > > So which lines should I remove, and how do I do that? None of them? You have one entry per mailing list, which is as it should be. Also, your preceding message doesn't complain about the database, it complains > raise ComponentLookupError(interface, name) > zope.interface.interfaces.ComponentLookupError: > (<InterfaceClass mailman.interfaces.listmanager.IListManager>, '') That says that "python scriptname.py" need the IListManager interface but can't find it. You didn't provide enough information to explain why that might be, so I'm not going to guess. Tell us more about the "duplicate entries" error, and if possible copy it exactly from where you found it originally, including any traceback. Also tell us more about your installation. Is it a distro installation? If so, which one, what version of Mailman? Is it a venv installation? If so, did you activate the venv before invoking "python scriptname.py"? If you didn't, try that and run scriptname again. Steve

1 year, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Fwd: [Django] ERROR (EXTERNAL IP): Internal Server Error: /archives/search

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Odhiambo Washington writes: > from mailman_web.settings.base import * > from mailman_web.settings.mailman import * I think just putting these as close to the top as possible, and including a comment (or two) saying that this is importing defaults that can be overridden by any assignment made later in the file is about as far as we can go for explaining. If you don't know how Python imports work, just ask about the specific case. There's quite a bit of potential complexity hiding in those '.'s; much more complicated than the '/'s in a file system path. Trying to explain the ins and outs of the Python import system is way beyond the scope of Mailman docs. > [At first instance, it is not obvious that mailman_web.settings.base > and mailman_web.settings.mailman are actually paths in Python - > which magically translates to mailman_web/settings/base.py and > mailman_web/settings/mailman.py] You shouldn't have to know that, it doesn't help with the bigger problem of finding mailman_web, and any simple explanation might turn out not to be true in your installation. This is why I prefer flat files for end-user configuration, even if they get pretty big. I understand why developers do stuff like this, but it's not "naive user"-friendly. > For example, my mind all along has been tuned to having a settings_local.py > for overriding the settings.py. Yes, and that is a better system unless our intent is to *hide* settings from the user, in my opinion. I don't see why you chose to deviate from it. Either way you have to integrate settings you have changed with settings the developers have changed. It's easier if you stick with the system you're most familiar with. > However, with this particular documentation, it would appear that > everything is intended to just go into /etc/mailman3/settings.py. > > Is it possible to modify the documentation Which documentation? We can modify our own, but that's a pretty big task because we have several different systems for managing config files over the last five or ten years. We shouldn't mandate any particular organization because they all still work, and people who use older setups shouldn't have to do without our docs. And we can't do anything about out-of-date mirrors or HOWTOs by random admins on the web. > and that those settings are in what file(s) ? But we don't know where those files are. If you use a venv install, they're almost certainly in $MAILMAN_HOME/venv/lib/python3.N/site-packages/mailman_web/settings/, but otherwise the mailman_web/settings part could be anywhere on Python's search path. And on modern systems unless you have a dedicated host with everything installed at once, you're likely to have 3 or more Pythons installed (Python 2.7, and two or more Python 3s). So tools like find and grep -l are often more confusing than enlightening. I think if you get confused, the most efficient solution is to just ask. If Mark or I or whoever directs you to check out the defaults, and you can't find them, ask again. Steve

2 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Office365 posts shunted (authres.core.SyntaxError)

by Stephen J. Turnbull

brylon(a)oit.rutgers.edu writes: > Thanks for the response. You are correct in the fact that I've > enabled/configured the ARC module, however, I don't think Mailman > is adding that (malformed) header considering I'm now HOLDing the > test email(s) sent to our postfix inbound MX servers *before* they > are LMTP'd to the Mailman server and its already there when I > postcat it. OK, thanks for that clarification. I feel better (but will still check it! just a bit less urgently ;-) What do you still need from us? I guess the easiest thing for us would be to catch the Exception in our ARC module, and ignore nonconforming Authentication-Results, so that there will be no ARC signature from Mailman on those posts. Will that do? (Note that "ignore and/or delete" is the RFC recommendation. I'd need more than "it would be nice" as a reason to try to parse non-conforming A-R. Mark's experience with parsing *conforming* (non)delivery notifications is quite a deterrent to that.) > At the same time I also can't fathom that Office365 has this wrong > (still?) and no one has noticed/complained? I guess I would say, how would we know if there were complaints? ARC is a very recent addition to Mailman, so you wouldn't necessarily see it here yet, and Office365 doesn't have a public bug database AFAIK. ;-) Microsoft (and other > 1G$ corporations) have a long history of "embrace, extend, and drive conformant implementations out of business".

5 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] User account issue after importing data from Mailman 2.x server

by dgoldsmith＠sans.org

We finally migrated from Mailman 2.x to a Mailman 3.x several months ago. We have had some issues with people who are active list members not being able to login with their user creds and when trying to use the 'Forgot Password' link to reset, being told their user account does not exist. They can submit email to the list and get copied on other list traffic. I just started looking at a user and a list in both the Postorius and Django admin web UIs and found: - in Postorius: - list exists, has 20K plus subscribed members and has 3 list owners - user exists and is subscribed to this list - in Django: - in HyperKitty section - in the Mailing lists page, the list exists, no idea about members BUT it has 147 owners (also the same 147 moderators) - in the Emails page, there are 149K plus entries - in the Profiles page, there are 147 entries - in the Accounts->Email addresses page, there are only 155 entries - in the AUTHENTICATION AND AUTHORIZATION->Users page, there are 147 entries Should Mailman 3.x have created user accounts for everyone when importing the data from the old server? To correct the issue on a case by case basis, can I as a server admin do something via the web UI or CLI or do we need to remove the email address from the list and ask the person to create a new account using that address and to resubscribe to the specific list or other? Thanks, David Goldsmith

1 year

[MM3-users] Re: Using REST with CLI using curl .... help needed

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Michael Bakonyi writes: > allright, thx a lot for your quick answer! After fiddling around > some more time, I guess I had some misunderstandings regarding the > REST-API. I guess if we reach the API correctly, we will not be > confronted with the CSRF-Error. We will continue to try but > nevertheless: What would be a cleaner approach to reach the API > from an external IP? I didn't found any examples in the web so far. If you mean the core REST API, you won't find any useful examples on the Internet. Anything you do find should be considered a form of self-harm and/or an insider threat. Access to the REST API is not securely authenticated, and therefore should never be exposed to the Internet. This API is expected to be contained either to localhost, or to a subnet behind a firewall that prohibits access to that port except from the host(s) serving HyperKitty and/or Postorius. If that's what you're trying to do, I would suggest a secure tunnel (not a generic VPN, but a specific tunnel to the API port). If you're talking about the Django administrative API to Postorius, you'll probably get a better answer faster from Django channels. Mark may know but he won't be available until mid-September most likely. As I wrote earlier, as far as I know you need to access the Postorius port, provide credentials, get the CSRF token, and then access Django. Regards, Steve

3 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: Lessons learned and a couple little gotcha for newbies

by William Oliver

On Tue, 2021-12-28 at 20:05 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 12/28/21 5:58 PM, William Oliver wrote: > > On Tue, 2021-12-28 at 17:50 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > > The recommended uwsgi.ini includes > > > > > > pythonpath = /etc/mailman3/ > > > > > > according to > > > https://uwsgi-docs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Options.html?highlight=pythonpa… > > > > > > this should work. Did you have that? If you did and it doesn't > > > work, > > > perhaps adding > > > > > > env = PYTHONPATH=/etc/mailman3 > > > > > > > Yes, I had the first, and does not work. The second entry works. > > > I updated the doc to use > > env = PYTHONPATH=/etc/mailman3 > > I don't know enough about uwsgi to know for sure, but the issue may > be > that setting pythonpath in a running python process doesn't work - > it's > too late as the path is already set in python's initialization. > You might add that it may be necessary to do it in .bashrc for linux folk -- I got it to work but as I've demonstrated, I can sometimes make mistakes and leave detritus around. I may not have successfully cleared my previous setting. That being said, I think it works. I am, I am afraid not a details-oriented guy, which is a bit of a drawback for someone doing system admin...

3 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Converting discussion list to read-only list (settings)

by Mark Sapiro

On 10/14/19 7:03 PM, Paul Arenson wrote: > > MAILMAN 2 > What I got from the Mailman 2 Wiki is "How to restrict the list so only authorized persons can post (moderation). If there is an option like that in Mailman 3 I want that. There is, but you can't do it the best way. See below. > SUMMARY > I want to be able to reply personally to the user if necessary without his or her message going to the list. So something like moderation. > > So let me take a guess: > > Default action to take when a non-member posts to the list AND > Default action to take when a member posts to the list > > should be set to HOLD FOR MODERATION? That will work and is probably what you want anyway. Your own posts will also be held, but you can just accept them. Alternatively, you could set your own Moderation setting to Accept or Default Processing so your posts won't be held, but don't do that as it allows anyone to post by spoofing your address in From:, Sender: or Reply-To: or the envelope sender. The best way to post without the post being held is pre-approval with an Approved: <password> header, where <password> is the list's moderator_password, but you can't set that in postorius so it won't work for you. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

6 years

[MM3-users] Re: Syncing Real Name between user account and membership

by Abhilash Raj

On Sat, Dec 19, 2020, at 10:42 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Andreas Barth writes: > > > a user was mass-subscribed (with a wrong name) and now registered > > and changed his name via the web interface but the list entry is > > not changed. > > I don't recall the design discussion, but I'm pretty sure that this > distinction was intentional. The idea was that people might want to > have different display names associated with different addresses (eg, > you probably don't want your User display name associated with an > address you use on anonymized lists). I'm not sure that option has > any merit in practice. > > @ Abhilash: > > Since Postorius doesn't provide a way to manage address-specific > display names, we should probably have Postorius propagate display > name changes. I believe that is normally what the user wants. > > What does everybody think? +1, I've been thinking the same. I am just wondering if Core's API should do this (probably not by default, but with a bool parameter that P can use every time), or should we iterate over all addresses and PATCH the display names in them (would be slower, with multiple API requests). I am leaning towards the first option. What do you think? > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

4 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Change to content filtering collapse alternatives - was: Re: Mailman shutting down Hyperkitty: Request too large

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Mark Sapiro writes: > That said, the effect on the OP's case, which may be more common, may be > harmful depending on list and Mailman config. > > The original message from the OP (edited) is > ``` > Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="000000000000da2dcc062cb38aa1" Ouch, that's a mess. First, unless you elided it, it's missing the required type parameter. Despite being required, it's basically an optimization and in most cases will not be much of one. So that's not really a big deal. Second, the Content-IDs are malformed. They are supposed to have the form of message IDs. Also not a big deal, they're close enough for government work. The big problem is I have no idea what the semantics of multipart/related text/plain image/jpeg should be. Throwing away the image data seems like it would be the right thing to do according to RFC 2387, which delegates rendering of the entire multipart/related entity to the root entity. But if that were the desired result of the author of the original message, it's straightforward to achieve by inverting the related and alternative parts. And (at least for image content) I would think that would be a rare intention. I don't see an obvious way to resolve this without checking what popular MUAs do with the various possibilities. So as long as your patch does the expected thing, it's the minimal solution. Steve

9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Moderation action "None" is misleading

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Markus Grandpré writes: > Hopefully we won't have to wait too long with Debian Debian has traditionally been quite slow to update Mailman, and they're following tradition. Both the testing and unstable distributions are still on Mailman 3.3.8. Regarding your specific issue of Kein/None, testing has the same version of mailman-web (dated 2020-05-30), while unstable has a much newer version of mailman-web (dated 2024-03-12). That should resolve that issue, but you will have to wait a full Debian development cycle at least. Our standard recommendation is to do a source installation in a Python virtual environment, point the new installation at your $SQLDB, review the content of /etc/mailman3 (I think Debian puts mailman3 configs there and that's what we recommend), test the new installation, and if that works, remove the Debian installation after preserving the /etc/logrotate.d/mailman*, /etc/cron.d/mailman*, and /usr/lib/systemd/system/mailman*.service files which are probably generally appropriate for Mailman 3 installed in a Debian system. There is also a containerized distribution of Mailman 3 suite, but I don't know how straightforward it is to port over a Debian packaged system to that environment. It may sound pretty fearsome, but you can hire people to do the installation and testing (maybe for as little as a pizza and a mug of beer ;-). After that you will get a more reliable system and better support (really, almost all the Reply Guys here run up-to-date systems of that kind, so we're much more familiar with it than with distro installations). Steve

9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Null sender?

by Mark Sapiro

On 6/28/20 6:58 AM, tom(a)gather.coop wrote: > Does Mailman generally send email with a null sender? > > This is what I see in the log: > > Jun 28 02:37:45 2020 (14588) ('127.0.0.1', 52726) handling connection > Jun 28 02:37:45 2020 (14588) ('127.0.0.1', 52726) Data: b'LHLO mail.example.coop' > Jun 28 02:37:45 2020 (14588) ('127.0.0.1', 52726) Data: b'MAIL FROM:<>' > Jun 28 02:37:45 2020 (14588) ('127.0.0.1', 52726) sender: <> > Jun 28 02:37:45 2020 (14588) ('127.0.0.1', 52726) Data: b'RCPT TO:<techque-bounces(a)example.org>' > Jun 28 02:37:45 2020 (14588) ('127.0.0.1', 52726) recip: techque-bounces(a)example.org > Jun 28 02:37:45 2020 (14588) ('127.0.0.1', 52726) Data: b'DATA' > Jun 28 02:37:45 2020 (14588) ('127.0.0.1', 52726) Data: b'QUIT' > > Notice the empty MAIL FROM. > > Sendgrid seems to be choking on that because it needs to check if sending domain has been validated. If there is no sending domain it seems to reject. > > Why does Mailman do this? Can it be changed? I've been trying to find the relevant section of the code to no avail. It isn't Mailman doing this. It is the MTA at mail.example.coop that is reporting the bounce of some message from the techque(a)example.org list. The log messages you see are Mailman's receipt of the bounce DSN. Bounce DSNs are always sent with a null envelope sender so if they are undeliverable, it doesn't result in another bounce. See <https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3461.html#section-6.1>. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Creating and placing custom templates

by Mark Sapiro

On 5/2/19 12:45 PM, kelly.close(a)lrewater.com wrote: > > Here's what I'm doing: > > I found my templates folder and verified it matched what is set in the mailman.cfg file - on my Ubuntu Bionic system it is /var/lib/mailman3/templates/ What is the setting, if any, for 'layout' in your mailman.cfg? If, for example, you have layout: fhs The default var_dir in that layout is /var/lib/mailman, not /var/lib/mailman3, although that could be changed in a [paths.fhs] section. > In that folder I created the following folders and made sure they were properly owned (by list:list) > /var/lib/mailman3/templates/lists/f2p2-test.udfcd-lists.org/en/ > > Into that en/ folder I placed a file called "list:member:regular:footer" It is a text file with just one line of text in it (a link to a website). Also, because there was a mention in one of the earlier posts that this file should have a .txt extension, I also put the same file in there named "list:member:regular:footer.txt". Yes, you do need the .txt extension. If this doesn't work, it's possible you have a different URI for the template. Try bin/mailman shell Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell'list:member:regular:footer', >>> tm = getUtility(ITemplateManager) >>> tm.raw('list:member:regular:footer', 'f2p2-test.udfcd-lists.org') This should return something like 'mailman:///$listname/$language/list:member:regular:footer.txt' Does it? -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

6 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: Howto: Mass import of nonmembers in several lists?

by Mark Sapiro

On 1/10/22 4:00 AM, Paul Paulchen wrote: > > So without adding all nonmembers with postorius step by step 8x20 times, there is an easier way to do it. > I thought so, because the import21 command did this as well when we migrated to mailman3. You could script it with `mailman shell`. If you really want this, I'll help. > I read about the command "mailman addmembers" https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/commands/d… > > I am guessing, that I need to create a file like in the example of the addmembers, adding all my nonmember users with their email addy. > But how can I add/ tell the command in this massimport that the new members are nonmembers in the existing lists?! You can't without modifying the code. > Hope I explained my case properly. I appreciate your responds! Thanks in advance. My question is why do you want to add these nonmembers. The only thing gained by adding a nonmember is the ability to set the nonmember's moderation action to other than the default, and you can handle that with the legacy * these non-members settings which take priority over the nonmember's moderation action anyway. Note that if a nonmember posts to a list, she will automatically be added to the list as a nonmember with default moderation action if she isn't one of the list's nonmembers already. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: How to keep virtualenv install secure?

by Mark Sapiro

On 11/7/24 01:31, Lichtinger, Bernhard wrote: > Hi, > > I am looking for some advice: If we use the virtualenv install method, how does one keep track of security updates for all the installed dependencies? > > I can think of: > - Upgrade regularly all installed packages inside the virtualenv. This might break mailman3 if there are incompatible updates. You can do in the venv ``` pip install --upgrade --upgrade-strategy eager mailman psycopg2-binary mailman-web mailman-hyperkitty ``` I'm not sure if this will update dependencies if there are no updates to the named package, but in any case, incompatibilities should be avoided because if a newer version of a dependency in incompatible, the dependency should be pinned to a compatible version in the project's requirements. > - Try to track all dependencies and check if there are security updates published. This might be impossible to achieve. It shouldn't be too difficult to script this. ``` Get the output from `pip freeze` in the venv for each line split it on `==` into PACKAGE and VERSION get https://pypi.org/rss/project/PACKAGE/releases.xml find the first <title>VERSION</title> and compare that VERSION to the VERSION from `pip freeze` ``` This won't tell you if the newer version is a security update, but it will tell you which packages have newer versions. > - Security updates are so rare, we do not need to bother. ;) For the Mailman dependencies, this is probably true. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

11 months, 4 weeks

[MM3-users] MM3 templates

by Odhiambo Washington

I followed this: https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/901 I created a similar template which I placed in /opt/mailman/mm/var/templates/lists/kictanet.lists.kictanet.or.ke/en/ I also restarted Mailman. However, when I test, the mail I get is not what I expected. The template used is different than the one referenced above. <CUT> From: < kictanet-confirm+e486c811933b179525ed673751e9b817c4b4b2e4(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke > Date: Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 4:01 PM Subject: Your confirmation is needed to join the kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke mailing list. To: OdhiamboW <myaddress(a)outlook.com> Email Address Registration Confirmation Hello, this is the GNU Mailman server at lists.kictanet.or.ke. We have received a registration request for the email address myaddress(a)outlook.com Before you can start using GNU Mailman at this site, you must first confirm that this is your email address. You can do this by replying to this message. Or you should include the following line -- and only the following line -- in a message to kictanet-request(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke: confirm e486c811933b179525ed673751e9b817c4b4b2e4 Note that simply sending a `reply' to this message should work from most mail readers. If you do not wish to register this email address, simply disregard this message. If you think you are being maliciously subscribed to the list, or have any other questions, you may contact kictanet-owner(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke </CUT> The part that has the URL from the referenced template is here. 1. Where is this template that the system used and can I edit it? 2. Why is it not using the template I created? -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-)

2 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman 3 stops delivering to a domain after too many bounces

by Julian Kippels

(sorry, I did not reply to the list with this at first) Hi, I'm quite positive that Mailman 3 is the culprit here. The problem did not exist with Mailman 2 and both versions used the exact same MTA. This MTA is even set up in a way to explicitly circumvent spam filtering (mails are filtered on the way in to mailman, there is no need for an additional check on the way out) . Additionally if the MTA would reject connections from IPs that generate too many errors, then why is Mailman 3 still able to deliver to domain B and C when domain A has already failed? Currently I am trying to write a script to check if mail aliasses are alive and remove users if that check should fail. I plan to run this as a cron job for every list every night. I don't think that this is a good option, but I don't see anything better right now. Julian Am Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:45:16 +0100 schrieb Tim Cutts <tim(a)thecutts.org>: > Are you sure that’s mailman doing that? What do your MTA logs say? > I’ve certainly seen behaviour that looks like that in the past, but > usually my MTA logs show that the first few are accepted by the > remote site, and then the subsequent messages get rejected, usually > as a result of over-zealous spam filtering. My approach to that has > usually been to adjust my MTA settings to be a bit friendlier to the > sites that tend to do this, and only send a few messages at a time. > > Tim > > > On 12 Jul 2022, at 08:34, Julian Kippels <kippels(a)hhu.de> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > We have recently upgraded from Mailman 2 to Mailman 3. Since then I > > have observed many user reports that mails to mailing lists don't > > reach all members. My suspicion is that there are too many "dead" > > members on those lists. This was not a problem on Mailman 2, but > > has become a problem on Mailman 3. It seems to me that for example > > Mailman 3 sends mails to the first 5 existing member addresses from > > domain A, then encounters several (20 or so seems to be the > > threshold) "dead" member addresses from domain A that generate a > > bounce and then does not even attempt to reach the remaining 800 > > member adresses from domain A and only sends to members on domain B > > and domain C. > > > > Is there a way to globaly ignore bounces and send out mails to all > > members of a list, no matter what? > > > > Thanks, > > Julian > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > > -- --------------------------------------------------------- | | Julian Kippels | | M.Sc. Informatik | | | | Zentrum für Informations- und Medientechnologie | | Heinrich-Heine-Universität Düsseldorf | | Universitätsstr. 1 | | Raum 25.41.O1.32 | | 40225 Düsseldorf / Germany | | | | Tel: +49-211-81-14920 | | mail: kippels(a)hhu.de ---------------------------------------------------------

3 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] MM3 gateway errors and frequent reboot needs

by Stephen J. Turnbull

hansen(a)rc.org writes: > We have had to reboot the list server almost every week and wonder > if there is something leaking and eating up resources. That's something you would have to check yourself, using Unix tools like ps, df, and lsof or Activity Monitor on Mac. I don't recall any cumulative resource problems like this. Some old reports indicate certain configurations and activity patterns put a lot of instantaneous pressure on the system, but this doesn't sound like that. Also those problems were specific to the software stack (databases, caches, search engines) that was used. The current recommended stacks do not have those problems as far as I know. The only current performance problem I'm aware of is in using the REST API directly to get large collections (eg, 10,000 member subscriber lists). (My currect thinking is that those are best addressed by using the corresponding paged endpoints, but still researching.) However, that is not a cumulative problem, it's a size-of-list problem, so it doesn't sound related. Are you running all of Mailman core, Postorius, and HyperKitty on the same server? For Postorius and HyperKitty, what webserver are you using? What database backend? What other applications are running on the server? What operating system and version? Recent hardware? > I does not appear to be memory, though. The server is slow to > respond (could be because it's overseas) and then after some time > we get intermittent gateway errors and finally we cannot access the > lists online because of the gateway errors. What does "gateway errors" mean? If problems with Internet routing or firewalls, I don't understand how network errors could be arise from a problem in Postorius. Why do you think Postorius could be responsible for those, aside from them appearing after switching to Mailman 3? Are you sure you weren't having them before? > It appears to me that the issue is with Postorius, but I could be > wrong. Do files get closed after opening? Yes, as far as we know. No reason to think otherwise since this is not something that has been reported that I can recall, and Python 3 helps us to code in a style that is not so vulnerable to such leaks. > Are we alone having such issues? So far, yes. > PS: My old MM2 installation could (and did) run without any > help. Not so with MM3. I don't think any of *our* feelings would be hurt if people decided to keep their Mailman 2 installations. :-) It's still great software for what it does. But it took more than 10 years to get there (the first production installations were in about 1994! and it's been feature- stable since about 2005 I'd guess. Unfortunately it wasn't possible to bring in the kind of features that many people need nowadays without a complete rewrite (partly a matter of manpower -- Python 3 brings a lot of power and fun to programming, partly a matter of technical debt making Mailman 2 code hard to change in big ways, and partly a matter of the need to port to Python 3 for the very long run), and the new features themselves changed the way that Mailman (and Mailman's users and administrators) interact with the network.

5 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman3 is wrongly display name a list member

by Allan Hansen

Thank youi, Stephen. Oops. When I wrote below that I set the name 'B' in the account, I did describe it wrongly. Sorry. The member just wants one name, 'A' for all her subsriptions. Somehow the 'B' got into the system when we upgraded from Mailman 2 to Mailman 3. I removed the address from all the lists, set the account display name to 'A' in Django, verified that she was not subscribed to any list at all, and then resubscribed her again as 'A'. In other words, no 'B' anywhere - straight 'A's. Nevertheless, the new subscriptions still show up as 'B'. Now, for the workaround: " If you want a new subscription to set the display name for an address, the workaround would be to delete the address, then reconfirm the address, and resubscribe the address to all the relevant lists." I modified the above workflow to: Removed the address from all the lists. Set the account display name to 'A' in Django. Verify that she is not subscribed to any list at all. Deleted the email address in Django (under 'Email addresses'). Resubscribed her as 'A'. In other words, no 'B' anywhere - straight 'A's. Nevertheless, the new subscriptions still has 'B' when I list it in Postorius. Further: When I search for 'Email addresses' in Django's list of emails (by account or email), it no longer exists. When I search under 'Users' (by account or email), it exists with 'A' as the display (which she entered when she created the account). Then since the email does not exist, under 'Email addresses' in Django, I go to 'Add email address', enter her account name and address. This gives and error: 'Select a valid choice. That choice is not one of the available choices.' I get this error no matter which 'Save...' button I press. I then tried to get into REST as per your advice here: " I think just starting Python 3 on the Mailman host as the Mailman user (we recommend "mailman" but Debian prefers "list", YMMV) and typing >>> from mailman.testing.documentation import dump_json >>> dump_json('http://localhost:8001/3.1/addresses/a@foo.com', ... method='PATCH', data={'display_name': 'A'}) " I get this, after setting myself up as user mailman (which works when entering mailman commands): mailman@list:~/scripts$ python3 Python 3.7.3 (default, Jan 22 2021, 20:04:44) [GCC 8.3.0] on linux Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> from mailman.testing.documentation import dump_json Traceback (most recent call last): File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'mailman' Looking around, I found mailman related stuff in /opt/mailman/mm and a file called 'mailman' in opt/mailman/mm/bin but hesitated editing your command above to: /opt/mailman/mm/mailman.testing.documentation (I don't want to mess up my system). So no go... Sorry for ranting. __ Please: 1. Always use the display name and email set up in the account everywhere. 2. Allow the member to change her display name using the account UI. 3. Allow the member to change her address and apply the new address to all list subscriptions. Yours, Allan On 1/11/22, 7:20 , "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephenjturnbull(a)gmail.com> wrote: Allan Hansen writes: > When I subscribe 'A' <a(a)foo.com>, Mailman3 changes it to 'B' > <a(a)foo.com>. If I recall correctly, this issue occurs because Subscription objects have no display name attribute, but User and Address objects do. First, the advice part: > What can I do to help this member? Unfortunately the mailman command line utility doesn't seem to allow changing the display name. The REST interface does, though. I think just starting Python 3 on the Mailman host as the Mailman user (we recommend "mailman" but Debian prefers "list", YMMV) and typing >>> from mailman.testing.documentation import dump_json >>> dump_json('http://localhost:8001/3.1/addresses/a@foo.com', ... method='PATCH', data={'display_name': 'A'}) should do what you want. Note the numbers "8001" (Mailman core's REST port) and "3.1" (the API version) may be different on your system, I'm assuming the default install of a recent Mailman release. See https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/rest/docs/… for information about accessing the REST API and https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/rest/docs/… for a few more details on the update process. On to the rants, if you care. > I went into Django and added the name 'B' to the subscriber's > account (the name was empty). > > I then unsubscribed <a(a)foo.com> from the lists and resubscribed 'A' > <a(a)foo.com>. > > The subscription again lists as 'B' <a(a)foo.com>. Does the user need to have different display names for different addresses? (I don't think it's possible to have different display names for the same address on different lists because there's no display name at all for Subscription objects.) If the answer is "no", the correct thing to do is to set the desired display name on the user's account. If the answer is "yes", there doesn't seem to be any way to do this with current Postorius/HyperKitty. Postorius doesn't expose the display name anywhere that I can see, and HyperKitty only manages the account's "real name". > This brings up a previous discussion of display names on this list, > but I have not been able to find any solution to the need to change > Mailman3's display names for a subscriber. It is beyond weird that > unsubscribing, setting the account display name and resubscribing > the member fishes back up the old and wrong display name. Unless you explained what you did incorrectly this is not weird, it's the expected result. You set "B" in the account, that's what's going to show up as the display name. It is not obvious that a new subscription should change an existing display name for a user or an address, given that there is no way to set a list-specific display name. It could go either way, and for the user I would definitely not change it, for the address I tend to agree that a new subscription should not change the address's display name. I agree that it's weird that neither Postorius nor HyperKitty seems to expose a way to set Address display names, though. If you want a new subscription to set the display name for an address, the workaround would be to delete the address, then reconfirm the address, and resubscribe the address to all the relevant lists.

3 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Edit archived email? Is it possible?

by Mark Sapiro

On 9/28/21 6:02 AM, Prasanth Nair wrote: > Hello, > > Does anyone know how to edit an archived email in Mailman3? It is possible > in Mailman2 ( > https://wiki.list.org/DOC/How%20do%20I%20edit%20the%20archives%20of%20a%20M…) > Is there any option similar to this in Mailman3? In some sense the process is the same but possibly even simpler in Mailman 3. You need to modify the underlying data which requires appropriate access to the server. In Mailman 3, the data are in the hyperkitty_email table in Mailman's database. You can get the Message-ID hash from the URL to the archived message, e.g. for the message to which I'm replying, the URL is https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… and the hash is 7PVJL23DLSWMXXL44ALQUO6VSYBRZ4OA. Then if you have access, you can do database queries like ``` SELECT subject, content FROM hyperkitty_email WHERE message_id_hash = '7PVJL23DLSWMXXL44ALQUO6VSYBRZ4OA'; ``` and ``` UPDATE hyperkitty_email SET content = '<new content>' WHERE message_id_hash = '7PVJL23DLSWMXXL44ALQUO6VSYBRZ4OA'; UPDATE hyperkitty_email SET subject = '<new subject>' WHERE message_id_hash = '7PVJL23DLSWMXXL44ALQUO6VSYBRZ4OA'; ``` If the message has attachments, they are in the hyperkitty_attachment table and can be referenced by `email_id` which is the corresponding `id` from the hyperkitty_email entry. You can also do similar things via `django-admin shell`. E.g. ``` $ django-admin shell Python ... (InteractiveConsole) >>> from hyperkitty.models.email import Email >>> x = Email.objects.filter(message_id_hash='7PVJL23DLSWMXXL44ALQUO6VSYBRZ4OA') >>> print(x[0].content) ``` but this requires some knowledge of HyperKitty's models and Django's ORM. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: How to prevent members to attach executables (exe, bat, ...) to the emails sent to list

by Mohsen Masoudfar

Hi Mark, Thanks again for the helpful hint. It seems that I still miss something. I am running Mailman3.1.1. I ran the following on my test server. I am trying, for test purpose only, to filter PDF attachments. First I just used the pass_type, assuming once this is set, everything else is filtered. # mailman withlist testlist3(a)x.com >>> m.pass_types = ['multipart', 'message/rfc822', 'text', 'application/pgp-signature'] >>> commit() >>> print(list(m.pass_types)) ['multipart', 'message/rfc822', 'text', 'application/pgp-signature'] This let PDF be send by Mailman3. Well, I need to add filter_types too, so I did this: >>> m.filter_types = ['application/pdf'] >>> commit() >>> print(list(m.filter_types)) ['application/pdf'] Mailman3 still distributes PDF files as attachment. What am I doing wrong? This is the final settings: >>> print(list(m.pass_types)) ['multipart', 'message/rfc822', 'text', 'application/pgp-signature'] >>> print(list(m.filter_types)) ['application/pdf'] Thanks Mohsen Thanks Mohsen -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 1:07 PM To: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org Subject: [MM3-users] Re: How to prevent members to attach executables (exe, bat, ...) to the emails sent to list [EXTERNAL EMAIL] On 9/30/20 9:25 AM, Mohsen Masoudfar wrote: > Hi, > > I am trying to find a way for content filtering to remove executables from the emails sent to the list. I found some hints under: > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail > man.readthedocs.io%2Fen%2Fstable%2Fbuild%2Flib%2Fmailman%2Fhandlers%2F > docs%2Ffiltering.html%3Fhighlight%3Dcontent%2520filter&data=01%7C0 > 1%7Cmmasoudf%40aaas.org%7Ceb728218f9884b4bfc1a08d865635075%7C2eebd8ff9 > ed140f0a15638e5dfb3bc56%7C0&sdata=mGUdz5NfrJgEyPmd5Isa0l01WWPQMpTA > 9thyWLZ0qbU%3D&reserved=0 > > but still not clear how to do it for all type of excecutables. There are four list settings that affect this. They are pass_types, pass_extensions, filter_types and filter_extensions. the pass_* settings specify message parts the list will accept while the filter_* settings specify message parts the list won't accept. The page at <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.r…> only discusses filter_types and needs updating for the others. Filtering by extension only works on message parts that have an associated file name. Thus, while you can add things like 'exe', 'bat', 'cmd', 'com', 'pif', 'scr', 'vbs' and 'cpl' to filter_extensions, it won't be completely effective. A better approach is to use MIME types[1] and only allow those you want. For a discussion list, a reasonable set is what this list uses: multipart message/rfc822 text application/pgp-signature This will accept any multipart and message/rfc822 parts for further analysis and ultimately accept only text/* and application/pgp-signature elemental parts. If you want to accept images and pdfs, you can add image application/pdf See <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iana.…> for a list of all registered MIME types. Note that these are all of the form main_type/sub_type and putting just main_type in *_types passes or filters all subtypes for that maintype. [1] You can use both, e.g. filter_extensions to remove those you don't want and pass_types to accept the MIME types you do want. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.mai…

5 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Add rule to auto-discard "AutoReply" messages from list members

by Abhilash Raj

On 11/16/23 01:07, Thomas Ward via Mailman-users wrote: > When people are communicating on Mailman3 lists, some set up automatic > responders for out-of-office, etc. and get let through the system to > list recipients. > > Unfortunately, this is bad behavior and appears to not be caught by > default. I'd like to set up some kind of rule globally rather than > per-list that would check if a message is an automatic reply (based on a > set of criteria we've come up with programmatically on our previous > custom implementation of lists) and then default-discard those messages. > > Is there a way with custom rules to implement this? We're looking for > certain strings on the subject line or other headers to determine > "Discard" cases in our custom list implementations, but we are hoping we > can implement this with customized rules in Mailman3 to achieve this > goal. How would we structure that type of rule, and do we check the > message object or the msgdata instead? You can implement a custom rule and a custom chain to do this, but you'd need to set that as the default chain on every existing list. Setting the default chain can be scripted using `mailman shell` pretty easily though. For any new lists, you can setup a custom style(s) and ensure that your new chain is the default chain for new lists. https://gitlab.com/mailman/example-mailman-plugin/-/blob/master/example_mai… ^ is an example plugin you can use as a starting point for your plugin and you will also see example rule at `rules/rules.py`. https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/tree/master/src/mailman/rules The above existing rules in Mailman's source code should serve as examples on how you can look at a header or body of the email. For example, approved.py looks for certain headers (var HEADERS in the file) or iterates through the body to look for something that looks like a header too ("Approved: <password>"). Once you have the rule, you can insert it in the right place in the chain. You can use the default-posting-chain https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/blob/master/src/mailman/chains/builtin… as your starting point (example plugin doesn't have an example chain yet, but it would look similar to inbuilt chains, under a "chains/" directory in the plugin). In the chain, you can also define what happens if rule matches. Rules only return True/False, based on whether the rule matched and chain can define if that should put the message into a separate queue (e.g. ('my-new-rule', LinkAction.jump , 'hold'), etc. or do nothing ('my-new-rule', `LinkAction.defer`, None). There are also example styles defined in the plugin https://gitlab.com/mailman/example-mailman-plugin/-/blob/master/example_mai… You mostly want to update `posting_chain` property on the 'mlist' object for the style. You can find examples again in the source tree under `src/mailman/styles` directory. To configure the default style for new lists, you can add the following to your mailman.cfg: [styles] default: my-new-style ref: https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/config/doc… Let us know if you have any questions on the same. -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

1 year, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: config incoming email in my domain cpanel

by Simon HANNA

On August 3, 2017 8:50:41 PM GMT+02:00, Rafael Mora <rafael.mora.guti(a)gmail.com> wrote: >El jue., 3 ago. 2017 a las 13:21, Mark Sapiro (<mark(a)msapiro.net>) >escribió: > >> On 08/03/2017 10:42 AM, Rafael Mora wrote: >> > >> > I've found the MX records on my cpanel but how do I redirect the >emails >> > going to my list to my private server? >> >> >> You have to configure the MTA that is the MX for the domain to relay >the >> mail to the Mailman server. >> > >Our domain is: LABBRANDS.COM We have that domain config in a Hosgator >hosting. The emails sent to labbrands.com go to our hosting, so how do >I >tell cpanel in hostgator hosting that the mails sent to the list ( >mailing(a)labbrands.com) are redirect to the MTA (postfix) in my private >server (we have static public IP address) ?? > You can't redirect one email address using DNS! If you don't want to host an entire domain on your own server, I suggest using a subdomain (lists.example.con) instead. You could probably also redirect one email in cpanel to the subdomain, but I'm not sure how mailman and clients like emails with different domains... In theory postfix can send emails using any domain. You just have to make sure spf, dkim and PTR records are properly set. Otherwise you'll most likely get issues with rejected mail... -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

8 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Moderate mails from owner

by Mark Sapiro

On 5/7/19 1:54 AM, Henrik Rasmussen wrote: > Do I have to make a commit or something? Even m.accept_these_nonmembers.remove removes the member from the list, it is right back when I return to the Mailman shell: > >> bash-4.3# mailman shell -l [LISTNAME].lists.example.com >> Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell >> The variable 'm' is the [LISTNAME].lists.example.com mailing list >>>>> m.accept_these_nonmembers >> ['listadmin(a)senderdep.example.com'] >>>>> m.accept_these_nonmembers.remove('listadmin(a)senderdep.example.com') >>>>> m.accept_these_nonmembers >> [] >> quit() There are potentially two issues here. First, the entire interaction is in the context of a database transaction and quit() exits without committing the transaction. abort() will also abandon the changes but not exit. commit() will commit the changes and not exit, and control-D will implicitly commit and exit. Thus, you need to exit with control-D or commit() before quit(). However, there is another potential issue and that is the one described at <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37310770/sqlalchemy-committing-pickle-t…>. What this says is the way the *_these_nonmembers attributes are defined in the SQLAlchemy data model results in changes due to mutating the list (which .remove() does) aren't recognized. See <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/merge_requests/505>. I think in your case, if you just do m.accept_these_nonmembers = [] commit() and then look at m.accept_these_nonmembers again which will show you what's in the database, you'll see that you have what you want. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

6 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Error Logging - what changed with the New Year releases?

by Odhiambo Washington

On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 11:57 PM Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > On 1/14/23 11:44, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 7:13 PM Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > > > >> Nothing in those releases per se would affect this. This is Django and > >> django-allauth. Perhaps when you updated the Mailman packages, you also > >> updated these dependencies. > >> > > > > Which dependencies would those be? > > Django and django-allauth. > (venv) [mailman@gw ~/mm]$ pip freeze | grep jango Django==4.1.5 django-allauth==0.52.0 django-appconf==1.0.5 django-compressor==4.1 django-extensions==3.2.1 django-gravatar2==1.4.4 django-haystack==3.2.1 django-mailman3==1.3.9 django-picklefield==3.1 django-q==1.3.9 djangorestframework==3.14.0 > > > > When I upgraded, the command I ran was: > > > > pip install --upgrade --force mailman mailmanclient postorius hyperkitty > > mailman-hyperkitty django-mailman3 > > > Do you mean --force-reinstall? pip has no --force option. I *think* > --force-reinstall will upgrade dependencies. Depending on your pip > version, --upgrade alone may or may not upgrade dependences. Older > versions of pip will, but newer versions, at least without > --force-upgrade require --upgrade-strategy eager to update dependencies. > I have used --force-reinstall. > > And how do I find out what is suppressing the logging for the social > > accounts? > > That's a django-allauth question. > Let me go RTFM again :-) -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-)

2 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: applying patch 1130

by David Newman

On 8/20/23 9:34 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > David Newman writes: > > > I tried patching all importlib.resource references by hand, and MM3 > > starts ? but that can't be the "right" way to do this. Also, the > > diff references a src directory that doesn't exist under > > /opt/mailman. > > The "right" way to do this kind of thing is to clone the git > repository, apply the patch there, make a branch for it and commit it, > build a wheel, and use pip to install that wheel to the venv. > > > Thanks in advance for patching clues. > > I'm in a hurry so that's all the clue for now, but further inquiries > are welcome if you need more detail or something doesn't go as > expected. Thanks for your response, Steve. One detail that doesn't seem right is that the 1130.patch from GitLab references at least one file, .gitlab-ci.yml, that doesn't exist in the 3.3.8 production release that's installed when using 'pip install mailman' in the venv installation docs. Just running 'git apply 1130.patch' on a local copy of the production 3.3.8 code fails because the file .gitlab-ci.yml isn't part of that code. There may be other errors too but the patch fails on that first one. I'm looking to patch an existing production server running 3.3.8 so it will be able to start under Python 3.11 on Debian 12. Thanks in advance for additional clues on what seems like a fairly standard problem. dn

2 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Rolling releases for Container Images and Funding Campaign for Mailman

by Simon Hanna

>>> These images are built using git-heads *only* if they are passing our >>> test suite and are re-generated weekly. You should be aware that while >>> all these components are tested with their individual test suites, their >>> combination might sometimes not be stable. This will get you >>> updates/bug-fixes much faster :) >> This contradicts what you said in my merge request for Postorius >> https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/merge_requests/232#note_43388756 >> >> You either use released versions, or make sure that the master branches >> are always compatible. You can't have both with the current development >> model. > Not exactly, I still believe all our git-heads should be compatible with > released (i.e. stable) versions of dependencies, regardless of the fact > that we maintain those dependencies. > > Also, there is at least one test per-project which tests with git-heads > of dependencies we maintain, so that we know if we make any incompatible > changes. > > I am not sure what in the current development model prevents us > to do both? > > The story for container images is different than testing with git-heads. > We need better integration testing for the entire suite to be stable in > conjunction, rather than independently. In fact, containers might be the > perfect way to actually do the integration testing. Scenario: Core changes something about rest that is backwards incompatible. The change is commited to master. Since your containers use the master branches, all future builds will fail until mailmanclient and postorius/hyperkitty. If you want to always have Postorius (and others) compatible with the latest release of master, development for Postorius will be a Pain, because you can't use the master branch of mailman for testing and quick changes. Also your containers and all integration tests that can be done with them will always fail. Until you fix Postorius and the other clients... So why not just have the master branches always compatible and make life easier for developers. I don't see a good reason why you want to do it the other way round... Any bug in core that affects Postorius will also just remain there until you release a new version of core. If you really really want to have it your way, there have to be more frequent releases. >>> - Improve the container images to work with new micro-services >>> architecture, >>> to achieve scaling and redundancy in services. >> The current bottleneck is the rest api from core. IMO bulk actions, >> filtering and sorting should be added there before trying to have >> multiple postorius/hyperkitty instances serving the same core... > I didn't say they will be served from the same core ;-) > > Yes, the Core's API can be further improved to be more efficient. But > that > doesn't prevent us from scaling. I understand there are issues around > multiple > instances of containers, but I have ideas to get around most of them. I just don't want that people that have issues with big installations get the answer: We know of that issue, please deploy Mailman on X containers/machines as a workaround

7 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] dkim failing

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Abhijith PA writes: > I am seeing dkim fail in mail that people send to lists > /dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed"/ It sounds like you mean at the final destination. This is expected if Mailman alters the portions of the message that are signed. This depends on the configuration of DKIM at the message sending MTA, but typically is triggered if - Mailman adds a header or footer - Mailman adds a list tag or post serial number to Subject - Mailman alters From to avoid DMARC problems. If you're sure it is new and Mailman is configured to do none of the above, it's not a Mailman problem. > but it is not happening when the list solely sending mail to subscribers > (like digest, or subscribe/unsubscribe messages etc). Mailman has nothing to do with DKIM in this case. It's all handled by the MTA after Mailman passes the mail to it. > I recently added a new domain to the mailman3. After this I started > noticing this issue. Any help ? This could happen if the new domain does not have DKIM configured correctly in the DNS or the MTA. If it is new, this is not a Mailman problem based on your description. If you stil think it's a Mailman problem, we need more information. A complete copy of the headers of a message that failed DKIM is the minimum. You MUST preserve the addresses. If it bothers you to send such information to a public list (this one), you can send it to me, Mark, or Abhilash personally. (You can get their addresses from past mails to this list.) Regards, Steve

7 years

[MM3-users] Re: FYI: Django security releases issued: 4.0.6 and 3.2.14

by David Newman

On 7/8/22 6:34 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > David Newman writes: > > > Interesting -- that does produce two directories with names starting > > with a tilde: > > > > /opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.9/site-packages/~jango: > > /opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.9/site-packages/~jango-3.0.14.dist-info: > > I would guess that those are the previous versions before the upgrade, > moved out of the way in case a revert-to-previous was needed. Again, > guessing, they should have been removed by the upgrade process once > the new package was fully installed. Was there an interrupted or > partially successful upgrade in the past? Yes > > So I would guess you can remove them. Probably you have the relevant > Ubuntu packages cached somewhere, and they're probably available from > Ubuntu if you really wanted them. This system runs Debian 11, with everything installed in a venv. I'm unclear on the relationship between the usual apt* tools and pip, and just do everything Mailman-related using pip. On 7/8/22 7:47 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > When pip is doing an upgrade of the xyz package, it renames the existing > package as ~yz and then ultimately deletes the old ~yz package after > successfully installing the new xyz. In this case, the upgrade was > aborted because of the Django<3.1 constraint in mailman-web and > apparently pip then installed Django<3.1 and left the ~jango* > directories behind. Ahhh, that explains it. Thanks for your replies. I've deleted the ~ directories and so far have not noticed any adverse effects. dn

3 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: accept mails from several Users, not list members beside members, howto

by Lars Schimmer

On 12/07/2021 20:14, Abhilash Raj wrote: > > > On Mon, Jul 12, 2021, at 6:23 AM, Lars Schimmer wrote: >> Hi >> >> I do look out for a method to accept mails from list members and a >> number of 20-30 Email addresses (not list members) to a mailing list. >> All others should be denied to post to the list. >> >> I can add those as non-members, but AFAIK I cannot define a special rule >> for them in "message acceptance". > > You can go to Users -> Non-Members and find the non-members you want > to allow posting for and then go into their preferences and set their Moderation > Action to "Default processing". > >> Under "message acceptance" the line "non-members" is set to deny, but if >> I set it to "default procesessing" - will it allow ALL email addresses, >> or just the group of "non-member" users? > > Yes, that will allow all non-members to post, which probably isn't what you > want from what I gather. You want the default policy to be deny and then set > moderation action on each individual non-member. Thank you. I would have hoped for a extra input box to enter a list of ~100 email addresses, but ok, lets do it this way. MfG, Lars Schimmer -- ------------------------------------------------------------- TU Graz, Institut für ComputerGraphik & WissensVisualisierung Tel: +43 316 873-5405 E-Mail: l.schimmer(a)cgv.tugraz.at Fax: +43 316 873-5402 PGP-Key-ID: 0x4A9B1723

4 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Easiest way to install a new mailman3 deployment?

by Ruth Ivimey-Cook

On 03/01/2021 15:47, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > ieso(a)johnwillson.com writes: > > > Here's an interesting suggestion I received that I'm going to kick > > around a bit.. has anyone tried using Ansible to assist the > > installation process? > > > > https://github.com/rivimey/ansible-mailman3 > > rivimey is very competent. That would undoubtedly be a good place to > start. However, her setup may be more complicated than most folks > need (IIRC, she has a multi-homed setup with Mailman core, Postorius, > and HyperKitty on three separate IPs on a separate subnet in the DMZ, > while Mailman was really designed for three Mailman applications > running on the same host, along with the database server and MTA). Thank you for your compliment. I have only split mailman in two: mailman-core with the email-related parts, and postorius for the UI. As yet, although Hyperkitty "works", I haven't addressed the fact that mails get archived in folders on the email host and so (for me) hyperkitty can't see them. Ideally, they would be on the postorius/hyperkitty host, or possibly network shared The Ansible role linked to above includes a lot of options but doesn't impose splitting the components as I've said: it merely enables it. If anyone wants to further refine the ansible role I am happy to consider updates, especially sorting the archive! In an earlier post on this thread (that I now see was only sent to ieso@ -- sorry!) I linked to the role I used as a starting point for my work, which does indeed do most of the "simple out-of-the-box" implementation of mailman. > the "ansible-mailman3" role by "natefoo": Mailman 3 installation, > configuration, and management for Linux > > There are other ansible roles which will install mysql etc as needed. > If I didn't need to split the host for mailman3-core from > mailman3-web, I think it would have worked out of the box. > > I hadn't heard of Ansible before, but it looks perfect for this > > kind of situation. > > I'm not sure we want to maintain an Ansible configuration, but I > imagine we could stick it in contrib as "an example that works for > somebody YMMV unsupported NO WARRANTY". :-) Ansible is very good at describing deployments and I would definitely suggest investigating it if you are doing that sort of thing. One of the nice parts of Ansible is that you do not have to describe whole hosts - it will happily manage a small part without compromise. Another really nice part is that it requires very little of the host. If Ansible is not to your liking, you may find "Salt" and "Saltstack" an improvement, though for me it was not as good. Ansible has a role archive in the form of the Ansible Galaxy website; I would suggest simply that Mailman docs mention the role's existence. As an Ansible user, that is where I would look first, so the main point of mentioning it in mailman docs is to let people who don't use Ansible know about it. Regards, Ruth -- Software Manager & Engineer Tel: 01223 414180 Blog: http://www.ivimey.org/blog LinkedIn: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/ruthivimeycook/

4 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Hyperkitty import from mailman2

by Mark Sapiro

> > Now I wanted to try import from mailman2 mbox, so i did: > > python2 manage.py hyperkitty_import --settings settings --ignore-mtime > -v 3 --since 2010-01-01 -l test(a)list.domain.com /tmp/test.mbox > > It shows that it have sucessfully imported all emails and I can see them > from database (sqlite3), but I cannot see them from GUI (hyperkitty). > Only thing I can see is this inactive "test" list. > > I have tried that I create list before importing, still same result. I have done this several times for several different lists and it has always worked with no problems. I have always created the list first. I do not use any of the options other than -l. My settings location is built in to the django admin script I run. So what I run is equivalent to python2 manage.py hyperkitty_import --settings .. -l .. mbox Do you have cron set up to run the periodic django tasks as in @hourly python2 manage.py runjobs --settings settings hourly @daily python2 manage.py runjobs --settings settings daily @weekly python2 manage.py runjobs --settings settings weekly @monthly python2 manage.py runjobs --settings settings monthly @yearly python2 manage.py runjobs --settings settings yearly 0,15,30,45 * * * * python2 manage.py runjobs --settings settings quarter_hourly * * * * * python2 manage.py runjobs --settings settings minutely If not, did you run python2 manage.py update_index --settings settings after the hyperkitty_import? I'm actually not sure any of this will help since it should only affect the search index, not the message display. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

7 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: User settings triggers error

by Mark Sapiro

On 6/18/20 3:33 PM, Mark Dadgar wrote: > > Any thoughts on how to salvage ~20 years of list archives? The archives shouldn't be an issue. I don't think they are involved in the corruption, but anyway, hopefully you still have the archive mbox you imported. Then for the messages since then, you should be able to get a mbox from hyperkitty with something like https://example.com/hyperkitty/list/listname@example.com/export/arbitrary-n… with the obvious substitutions and appropriate start and end dates. The list is trickier. If you are going to start over with a clean install, and if you have a config.pck that you imported from MM 2.1, I suggest the following: Use the `mailman members` command to get a list of all members. Then depending on how much work you want to do, also get separate lists of plaintext and mime digest members and members with delivery disabled. Then on the new install, import the config.pck with `mailman import21` and import the archive mboxes with hyperkitty_import. Run `mailman members --sync` with the full current membership list, and record the [ADD]s. Then you can match the [ADD]s against the plain and mime digest members and those with delivery disabled and set their options. That's a lot to do, but it should get you close. On the other hand, if you can wait, we might be able to figure out how to fix this, and it's even possible the underlying issue isn't database corruption. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Moderator Approval Subscription template

by Mark Sapiro

On 2/8/21 5:55 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote: > Hey all, > > I am seeing a strange issue with the Moderator Approval Subscription > template. > > 1. First problem is that this template by default does not include a URL > to the list admin page of said mailing list. Mailman 2's notifications did. Mailman 2 was monolithic. Mailman 3 is Modular. Core, which sends this notice, doesn't know if you even have a web admin UI, much less how to access it. It has been suggested that we add a config setting for the web base URL and if that is set, include URLs in these messages and we may eventually do that, but in the mean time > 2. Problem 1 can be solved by editing the template and adding the List > Owner (admin) url to moderate the subscription. This is what you need to do. > However in the case of > long URLs, the URL is getting cut-off in Thunderbird. Not sure about > other email clients. That is an issue because the expanded template is filled and wrapped at column 70 with mailman.utilities.string.wrap(). However, you can avoid wrapping the URL by preceding it in the template with a space. Something like > Your authorization is required for a mailing list subscription request > approval: > > For: $member > List: $listname > > Visit > > https://list.redeacted.org/admin/list/oligodendroglioma.list.redacted.org > > to act on this request. Lines beginning with spaces aren't wrapped. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: FILTER_VHOST = True doesn't work fine with alias_domain

by Mark Sapiro

On 2/17/22 15:15, Élodie BOSSIER via Mailman-users wrote: > Hello, > > My mailman3 installation is now functional, but the config "FILTER_VHOST > = True" doesn't work fine when I define "alias_domain" for the 2 > domains. I need to define that because I need to get "postfix_vmap" file. > > As you can see, list from others domains are visible on this URL : > https://ml.franceserv.fr/postorius/lists/ > > I would like https://ml.franceserv.fr/postorius/lists/ and > https://ml.viticreation.fr/postorius/lists/ with their own lists. There are issues with FILTER_VHOST due to the fact that mailing lists do not have a web host attribute. This means when you go to HyperKitty or Postorius when FILTER_VHOST is True, we look up the domain record for the web host you are visiting and show you all the lists whose mail host matches the mail host for the web host domain. This has nothing to do with alias domains. What that means is if all your domains records have a unique mail host, FILTER_VHOST will work as you expect, but if multiple domains have the same mail host FILTER_VHOST will show you the lists for the current web host plus all those with a matching mail host. I.e. if in your case, the ml.franceserv.fr domain and the ml.viticreation.fr domain have the same mail host, FILTER_VHOST won't separate them. If they have different mail hosts FILTER_VHOST will separate them. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Single-Sign-out for List member

by Mark Sapiro

On 8/13/20 6:21 AM, w.schoener(a)alp.dillingen.de wrote: > > So I would like to ad a link in the footer of every message, with which every receiver/member can sign out of the newsletter with one click. > It does not seam to be possible, to put this into effect with mailman 3. > Does anybody have any hints, how to create a link, and when this link is called, the user is signed out of the newsletter. You can set the list's unsubscription_policy to open and set the link as a mailto: to the list-leave address, but that still requires a second click to send the mail. The solution is to create a web based CGI script which is called with a URL like <https://example.com/unsub_script/list.example.com/user@example.net> and have that script invoke the appropriate `mailman` command to remove the member from the list. Beginning with Mailman 3.3.2, this would be mailman delmembers -l list.example.com -m user(a)example.net -g to remove the member and send a goodbye message. In older Mailman, it would be something like echo user(a)example.net | mailman members -x - list.example.com I understand you may have a legal requirement do do this, but these "one-click - no user confirmation" links are a bad idea because usera will reply to a list post or forward it and not remove the link and userb will receive usera's reply and click usera's unsubscribe link either maliciously or thinking it will unsubscribe userb. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: 3rd Party Account is not working

by Stephen J. Turnbull

kwp.klein(a)gmail.com writes: > Here is my /mailamn/config/mailman-web/settings_local.py. I get an error message > > curl http://172.19.199.3:8000/postorius/lists/ > curl: (7) Failed connect to 172.19.199.3:8000; No route to host > Please comment out all the lines that are not necessary. This is not a Mailman problem; curl can't connect to the Mailman host because there's no way to get there from here. We may not be the best place to ask about network problems. That said, we'll do what we can. We need to know what your network configuration is. I assume that 172.19.199.1 and 172.19.199.3 are on the same subnet, and that 172.19.199.3 is the host for Postorius. Where is Mailman core? Do you have HyperKitty installed? On what host? I assume that 172.19.199.1 is the host with the MTA for this network. I don't know if this is related to your original problem "Server error An error occurred while processing your request." However, if the network is not working properly Mailman is going to be very unhappy. > MAIL_BACKEND = 'django.core.mail.backends.smtp.EmailBackend' > EMAIL_HOST = '172.19.199.1' > EMAIL_PORT = 25 > USE_SSL = False > > INSTALLED_APPS = ( [...] > 'allauth', > 'allauth.account', > 'allauth.socialaccount', I think you may want to disable allauth.socialaccount as well. > #'django_mailman3.lib.auth.fedora', > #'allauth.socialaccount.providers.openid', > #'allauth.socialaccount.providers.github', > #'allauth.socialaccount.providers.gitlab', > #'allauth.socialaccount.providers.google', > ) > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > >

4 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Mailman 3 installation, no mails in hyperkitty, unable to add footer.

by ugniusviln＠gmail.com

I have read documentation, but still have stupid questions, could You please help, because I can't make it working. I do not understand something important. I have no experience with python at all. I have mailman 3, python 3.5 in my debian OS system, and additional packages like uwsgi and ect. using https://buildmedia.readthedocs.org/media/pdf/gnu-mailman/latest/gnu-mailman… about till chapter 6. I understand mailman suite has hyperkitty already. But I am not sure about: 1. Does mailman-suite have hyper-kitty inside? Because if I run $python manage.py runserver - it runs. In installed it under dedicated OS user home and fonfigured to run. I can create lists, event add lists to hyperkitty page using: $django-admin runjob new_lists_from_mailman list server sends messages to list members as well. But nothing happens more. No emails come to hyperkitty, arciver log 0 size. $ python manage.py runjobs -l shows the lists of the jobs, so seems nothing to add. Except uwsgi.ini, I have only 2 configuration files in mailman-suite project directory: settings.py and mailman.cfg So I do not understand what did I configured badly. 2. If I (using Postorius web interface) add footer template to my list under regular message, something strange happens. Mailman stops to send messages for list members. No any entries in the logs. Just Mailman log writes: "unable to connect localhost port 25" and no more explanation. If I delete list's footer template (web interface), mailman starts working again. What is bad here? How to add custom footer? In mailman 2 if was working so good and was easy to setup.

6 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: Turn off social logins?

by Abhilash Raj

On Sun, Feb 10, 2019, at 6:54 PM, Nick Wynja wrote: > On 02/10/19 at 08:57, brian(a)emwd.com <brian(a)emwd.com> wrote: > > > "In your `settings_local.py` copy the whole INSTALLED_APPS section from [default settings](https://github.com/maxking/docker-mailman/blob/master/web/mailman… and add/remove the auth providers you want/don't want. Notice the `allauth.socialaccount.providers.<provider>` in the list below." > > Another option, which seems more future-proof, is to strictly remove > the account providers you don't want from INSTALLED_APPS rather than > defining INSTALLED_APPS locally. > > First, you have to access INSTALLED_APPS by importing settings into > settings_local.py: > > ``` > from settings import * > ``` > > Then, you can set INSTALLED_APPS to everything it already is minus the > social providers: > > ``` > INSTALLED_APPS = [a for a in INSTALLED_APPS if not > a.startswith('allauth.socialaccount.providers') and not > a.startswith('django_mailman3.lib.auth.fedora')] > ``` > > This way if Postorius ever adds any apps you won't need to update your > local settings. Anyone see any downsides to doing it this way? Please don't do that, it will create a circular import since settings_local.py is imported by settings. Postorius (actually, allauth) adding more providers won't affect the INSTALLED_APPS list, which is a static setting defined in the container images. Unless the image changes that list, it won't affect you. Having the list customized is actually good for you, since there is some extra configuration required for adding a new provider, so you don't want something to just show up without you knowing. -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

6 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman, etc. upgrade woes and persistent bugs

by Allan Hansen

They need to resubscribe to each list they want the new address to be used for. Subscriptions involves permissions from the moderators. It’s not a simple process, especially if you are on many lists. Yours, Allan Hansen hansen(a)rc.org > On Feb 12, 2021, at 8:47 , Andreas Barth <aba(a)ayous.org> wrote: > > * Stephen J. Turnbull (turnbull.stephen.fw(a)u.tsukuba.ac.jp) [210212 12:04]: >> hansen(a)rc.org writes: >>> b. The ability of members to change their addresses for all lists >>> they are subscribed to. >> >> What exactly do you want here? I can think of a number of ways to >> implement that, depending on whether the old address is to be >> deactivated from the lists, unsubscribed from the lists, or deleted >> from the Mailman and/or Postorius Users. There may be other >> variables to consider, as well; I haven't thought about this. AFAICS >> this is not a trivial feature, and I'd really like to hear from people >> who want "something like" this about exactly what they want and their >> use cases. Or we'll release an insufficiently designed feature that >> causes somebody hundreds of problems.... > > I thought user could do that if they have an web account, and multiple > mail addresses are associated with the account? Or does my memory > serve me wrong there? > > > Andi > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/

4 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Changing subscription address

by Allan Hansen

All, I need help with this. A subscriber is a member of 14 of the lists on my system (others have more subscriptions). This member needs to change the address and is dyslexic, so I’ve been asked to help. I added the new address to her account in Django and set it as the preferred address. However, when she was subscribed, the system set her old address as the list subscription address, instead of her ‘preferred’ address. Well, I’m not sure of this as I cannot access her Settings, but that’s how it worked with one of my own addresses. Will I now have to tell her to do this for each list she is subscribed to: Select ‘Mailman Settings’ in dialog pulldown. Select one of the lists listed. Click on ‘Manage Subscription.’ In ‘Select Emai’, select the ‘Primary Address’ pulldown option Click on ‘Change email used for subscription.’ Please note that the “Global Mailman preferences’ nor the ‘Address-based preferences’ have the option to select the preferred address. I realize that once a member has an account in Django AND has preferred address set AND has selected the ‘Primary Address’ for each list, then this will be easier. However, I have 10000+ subscriptions by some 1500 members, most of whom were moved over from MM2 and have no Django accounts. Someone on list some time ago advised me that it was possible to do this easily globally. I have spent a couple of hours on the system trying to find that way but the above per-list procedure is all I found. Please make this easy, as I get these requests all the time and some, like this one, are on many lists. Yours, Allan

4 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Post-installation documentation?

by David Newman

On 11/25/21 10:28 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 11/24/21 10:17 PM, David Newman wrote: >> On 11/24/21 2:36 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >>> >>> To import archives run the Django admin command with arguments >>> >>> hyperkitty_import -l alist(a)example.com >>> /path/to/mailman2.1/archives/private/alist.mbox/alist.mbox >> >> Good up to here, but ... hyperkitty_import not found. >> >> This wasn't covered in the venv docs: > > It is covered at > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html#upgrade-strategy > > Your issue is probably that the Django admin command you ran is not > accessing your `settings.py`. You may need to do > ``` > export DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE=settings > export PYTHONPATH=/path/to/directory/containing/settings.py > ``` > before running the Django admin command. These can also be given as > --settings and --pythonpath options to the Django admin command. Thanks for this. After setting these variables and restarting mailman3 and mailmanweb, the mailman user still cannot find a hyperkitty_import command (neither can root, btw). Again, I installed MM3 and Django/Postorius/Hyperkitty using the venv and web docs previously referenced. On the plus side, all lists now appear in the admin web page. However, lists created from the admin page do not appear in a site list page, even though all lists are in the same site/domain. Finally, how to make these exports permanent? I did not see this covered in the migration doc above. This is on a Debian system where the mailman user's shell is bash. Is this simply a matter of adding environment variables in the mailman user's .bashrc file? Thanks dn

3 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Subscription Request asking for Confirmation instead of Moderation

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Henry Hartley via Mailman-users writes: >>> 1. Are there particular headers that are causing the email >>> to go to the Confirmation page instead of the Approval page? Or >>> are there particular headers we can add that will help with this? No. That's entirely determined by the list's configuration. You cannot change that behavior via a user's subscription request whether by email or web. IIRC, the only overrides are either through the REST API, "mailman shell", or the "mass subscribe" page on the web. (I guess it's possible that the moderator can "pre confirm" at approval time, do you see such an option when you approve? I've never managed a "moderate" list so I don't know without groveling through the code.) Do you really only have one list? Is it possible that the misbehaving list is not configured as you expect (ie, the list subscription policy is "confirm" or "confirm then moderate")? Unlikely, but if you haven't checked since the problem started, please confirm. Are you sure that the members have not been approved by some moderator? I forget exactly how this works, but unless you use mass subscribe with the "pre confirm" option set, the user will have to confirm before they can receive mail. I believe that all outgoing messages from Mailman should be logged. So you should check for outgoing confirmation notices. Posts are given a summary log like "smtp to somelist(a)example.org for 225 recips". IIRC notices (such as confirmations) are logged as "smtp to FirstLast(a)SCHOOL.org" for each individual notice. (My own production lists were all "mass subscribe" lists so I don't have any notice examples.) Notice logs are usually in $log_dir/smtp.log, but some sites configure them to a separate log. After the Mailman logs, they should show up in the MTA logs. Posts are always logged with the Message-ID, I think notices are as well. > > > 2. Is there any way for us to move an address from the > > > Confirmation Pending page to confirmed on the backend > > > (preferably through the web interface, but on the server > > > itself, if necessary)? Not that I know of, but what you can do is mass subscribe those addresses. I think that you'll still end up with them waiting for confirmation as described above. You can confirm them by accessing the database directly, but that's more fraught than I want to deal with at bedtime :-). > > > Here are the headers sent with the subscriber's email address > > > changed to FirstLast(a)SCHOOL.edu and our BCC mailbox domain > > > changed to COMPANY.com. Is FirstLast(a)SCHOOL.edu in the Confirmation Pending page? [...] > > > X-Mailer: Drupal Good, this is the Drupal script. Saves me from asking for confirmation. > > > Return-Path: FirstLast(a)SCHOOL.edu > > > Sender: FirstLast(a)SCHOOL.edu > > > From: FirstLast(a)SCHOOL.edu Pretty sure that only From is consulted by the subscription machinery. Since they're all the same this shouldn't matter. Since this is an on-behalf-of message, most likely Return-Path and Sender should *not* be the user -- if something goes wrong, they can't do anything to fix it. > Note also that the mailto: links above (and below, if applicable) > are not in the text I'm pasting but have been added somewhere along > the line. Presumably you did a screen copy from the presentation version rather than the raw text of the message. > Authentication-Results: spf=fail (sender IP is 192.168.0.0) > smtp.mailfrom=SCHOOL.edu; dkim=none (message not signed) > header.d=none;dmarc=fail action=oreject > header.from=SCHOOL.edu;compauth=fail reason=000 This requires some care. DMARC is failing, and necessarily will fail. If SCHOOL.edu has a p=reject policy, this mail should not get to Mailman at all. Also, your Drupal host is not signing its mail. This doesn't necessarily matter for this script, since it can't pass DMARC, so you need to have an alternative way to trust mail from it. But it is really important that your Mailman host sign its mail, especially mail it originates, because many hosts will discard, reject, or quarantine unauthenticated email that looks like it was generated by a robot and contains links. This could explain some cases of subscribers apparently not receiving confirmation notices. You could check the "shunt", "bad", and "virgin" queues to see if confirmation messages are hung up in one of those. If the Drupal host is the Mailman host, then you could use the PHP script to talk to the REST API instead of using email. Cutting out the long list of middlemen, so to speak. (It would also be possible if they're different hosts, but the security precautions I would recommend are quite a bit more severe.) -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan

2 months, 1 week

[MM3-users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Rolling releases for Container Images and Funding Campaign for Mailman

by Abhilash Raj

On Wed, Nov 8, 2017, at 04:38 AM, Simon Hanna wrote: > On 11/08/2017 12:03 AM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > > New images are available on quay.io and, moving forward, the rest of > > the image builds will also be moved to Quay[4][5]. > Since docker deployment is currently the recommended install, with > manual installs using the master branches for "experts" I wonder why you > are using Quay. For those who don't know about it, Quay is a container registry offering from CoreOS. The main reason why I chose to move to Quay, from DockerHub that we are currently using, is security. Some parts of both Dockerhub and Quay are open source and some aren't. There isn't a very clear boundary/transparency in what technologies they use. Both are free to use for open source projects. However, Quay provides an improved security model with RBAC to push images from build server, without having to put my account password on the build server. It also includes a (open source) security scanner for images, which looks for vulnerabilities in packages included in the image so that I can re-build them if one is found. There are open source registries available, most popular of which I know is provided by Gitlab. However, I feel Quay is better for my current workflow, which involves lots of bash scripts for building and testing images on public CI system for rolling releases. Given more free cycles, I do intend to have a better build pipeline and possibly use Gitlab's own registry to distribute images. > It looks like it's a non-free system. Why use Quay but refuse to use a > non-free translation system like transifex? > > These images are built using git-heads *only* if they are passing our > > test suite and are re-generated weekly. You should be aware that while > > all these components are tested with their individual test suites, their > > combination might sometimes not be stable. This will get you > > updates/bug-fixes much faster :) > This contradicts what you said in my merge request for Postorius > https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/merge_requests/232#note_43388756 > > You either use released versions, or make sure that the master branches > are always compatible. You can't have both with the current development > model. Not exactly, I still believe all our git-heads should be compatible with released (i.e. stable) versions of dependencies, regardless of the fact that we maintain those dependencies. Also, there is at least one test per-project which tests with git-heads of dependencies we maintain, so that we know if we make any incompatible changes. I am not sure what in the current development model prevents us to do both? The story for container images is different than testing with git-heads. We need better integration testing for the entire suite to be stable in conjunction, rather than independently. In fact, containers might be the perfect way to actually do the integration testing. > > If this campaign succeeds, here is a road map of what I intend to get > > done: > Sounds great, what is the limit where the campaign succeeds? What will > happen to the funds if it doesn't? > > - Add Admin Dashboard project from GSoC 2014 (maybe?) > Didn't find anything using google. What is that project about? https://www.google-melange.com/archive/gsoc/2015/orgs/gnu_mailman/projects/… > > - Add better testing of container images and provide deployment > > instructions for Kubernetes & Docker Swarm > To be honest, I don't think we should all in on containers. > Yes they are nice, but I guess most people would prefer distro packages. > Even if people want containers, I for instance would prefer plain > systemd-nspawn Like Barry mentioned, it doesn't have to be all-or-nothing. There is work being done on distro packaging for Debian and I am ready to help others trying to do the same for other distros! Systemd-nspawn isn't really a production grade tool to use containers. I am not sure about how much it adheres to the OCI specs, but if it does, it should not matter which deployment tool you are using with images. I wouldn't mind adding configurations for systemd-nspawn in the documentation, contributions are most welcome. > > - Improve the container images to work with new micro-services > > architecture, > > to achieve scaling and redundancy in services. > The current bottleneck is the rest api from core. IMO bulk actions, > filtering and sorting should be added there before trying to have > multiple postorius/hyperkitty instances serving the same core... I didn't say they will be served from the same core ;-) Yes, the Core's API can be further improved to be more efficient. But that doesn't prevent us from scaling. I understand there are issues around multiple instances of containers, but I have ideas to get around most of them. -- Abhilash Raj maxking(a)asynchronous.in

7 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Splitting hosts: mta&core vs postorius

by Ruth Ivimey-Cook

Thanks Mark, On 20/06/2020 03:53, Mark Sapiro wrote: On 6/19/20 4:34 PM, Ruth Ivimey-Cook wrote: I'm trying to set up mailman3 on two hosts, one of which runs core + exim, the other runs postorius (&possibly hyperkitty). I have I think got core set up correctly, and postorius is sort of usable, but anything in the web ui that talks to core ends up with a white screen. I think what is happening is a postorius URL ends up with the core (or perhaps no) hostname, and as there's nothing there to answer it fails. What are your Django settings for MAILMAN_REST_API_URL, MAILMAN_REST_API_USER and MAILMAN_REST_API_PASS and do these agree with the [webservice] settings for hostname, port, use_https, admin_user and admin_pass in mailman.cfg in core and is the port open to the outside on the core machine? greyarea-post is the mailman-core and exim server. greyarea-web1 is the postorius and hyperkitty server. On greyarea-web1, in django-settings.py, MAILMAN_REST_API_URL = '[1]http://greyarea-post:8870' MAILMAN_REST_API_USER = 'restadmin' MAILMAN_REST_API_PASS = XXXX and both the above-named hosts are also included in ALLOWED_HOSTS along with localhost. On greyarea-post, in mailman.cfg: [webservice] admin_pass: XXXXX admin_user: restadmin api_version: 3.1 hostname: 0.0.0.0 port: 8870 use_https: no The password and username are as on web1. Do you see REST requests from the Postorius machine in core's mailman.log and access.log? Yes, there are lots of requests of the form: [07/Jun/2020:15:00:01 +0000] "GET /3.1/lists?count=10&page=1 HTTP/1.1" 200 470 "-" "GNU Mailman REST client v3.3.1" I made a new list using the core CLI, and as a result of navigating directly to the list archive page I get to see: [06/Jun/2020:23:00:02 +0000] "GET /3.1/lists/chbcdaily(a)ch-bc.org.uk HTTP/1.1" 200 365 "-" "GNU Mailman REST client v3.3.1" ... but in neither case do I get a complete screen on the browser or 'follow-up' requests. I don't have a file access.log on the greyarea-post. On the greyarea-web1 I have mailmansuite.log with the last few lines: File "/opt/mailman3/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailmanclient/restbase/ba se.py", line 74, in rest_data response, content = self._connection.call(self._url) File "/opt/mailman3/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailmanclient/restbase/co nnection.py", line 124, in call 'Could not connect to Mailman API: ', repr(e)) mailmanclient.restbase.connection.MailmanConnectionError: ('Could not connect to Mailman API: ', 'ConnectionError(MaxRetryError("HTTPConnectionPool(host=\'0.0.0.0\', port=8870): Max retries exceeded with url: /3.1/domains/ch-bc.org.uk (Caused by NewConnectionError(\'<urllib3.connection.HTTPConnection object at 0x7f5416db8518>: Failed to establish a new connection: [Errno 111] Connection refused\',))",),)') ERROR 2020-06-03 01:02:06,115 29002 django.request Service Unavailable: /postorius/lists/ the uwsgi-error_*.log contains many lines of the form: api: url is [2]http://greyarea-post.cam.ivimey.org:8870/3.1/lists?count=10&page= 1 api: url is [3]http://greyarea-post.cam.ivimey.org:8870/3.1/lists?count=10&page= 1 My reason for thinking, in my original post, that the wrong host address is being used is that the ConnectionError above contains 0.0.0.0 in its url for /3.1/domains/... but 0.0.0.0 is only present as the listen address on the core web service and does not appear in the config for postorius. I hope this helps, Ruth -- -- Software Manager & Engineer Tel: 01223 414180 Blog: [4]http://www.ivimey.org/blog LinkedIn: [5]http://uk.linkedin.com/in/ruthivimeycook/ References 1. http://greyarea-post:8870/ 2. http://greyarea-post.cam.ivimey.org:8870/3.1/lists?count=10&page=1 3. http://greyarea-post.cam.ivimey.org:8870/3.1/lists?count=10&page=1 4. http://www.ivimey.org/blog 5. http://uk.linkedin.com/in/ruthivimeycook/

5 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: I don't get my posts with Gmail

by Allan Hansen

I was pleased to see the advice below on how to get your own list messages sent from a Google client, as my subscribers complain about their messages going AWOL all the time. Alas, it has the following note at the bottom: "I have tested this and while it seems to work, it doesn't. What the filter does is put a copy of the sent message in your inbox as it is sent so it appears that you received the list post, but the message in your inbox is the same message that's in your sent folder. It's not the message received from the list.” Do those messages really show up in the spam folder without this filter? (I don’t use Gmail). If so, then the server is, indeed, sending the message to the mail client, and the mail client is doing the message ID linking locally, discarding the incoming duplicate. Would a change in mail client solve that? If so, then problem solved by a work-around. If not, then how can the filter above work? And pardon my top-posting. :-) Yours, Allan Hansen hansen(a)rc.org > On Oct 18, 2020, at 3:35 , Massimo Zappalà <maszap69(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Thanks Stephen for your reply, > I tried creating the filter on GMail as described in Mark's suggested Wiki > > https://wiki.list.org/DOC/I%20don%27t%20get%20my%20own%20posts > > and it worked. > > Thank you > Max > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/

5 years

[MM3-users] Re: mailman break DKIM signature by modifying body

by Mark Sapiro

On 6/5/23 07:06, Peter Münster wrote: > Hi, > > I'm using mailman 3.3.8. > > Some messages with attachments from Google users get rejected by spam > filters because of invalid DKIM signatures. > > It seems, that mailman alters some lines in the body. Here an example: > > Original message: > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > Lines: 2031 > > --000000000000f846c505fc494b7a-- > --000000000000f846c705fc494b7c > Content-Type: application/pdf; > [...] > Content-Disposition: attachment; > [...] > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > Altered message: > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > Lines: 2032 > > --000000000000f846c505fc494b7a-- > > --000000000000f846c705fc494b7c > Content-Type: application/pdf; > [...] > Content-Disposition: attachment; > [...] > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > An empty line is added, and the spaces after the semicolons are removed. > > Perhaps related to https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/1079. > > What could I do please, to prevent such modifications of the body? Changes like those above are due to Python's stdlib email module. Short of actually modifying the email module, there's nothing you can do to prevent them. Instead, you should be DKIM signing your outgoing mail and perhaps applying Mailman's DMARC mitigations if DMARC is an issue. If you are DKIM signing your outgoing mail and mail is being rejected because of prior invalid signatures, you can remove those by adding `remove_dkim_headers: yes` to the [mta] section of mailman.cfg. Also, ARC signing <https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/handlers/d…> may help. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman3 not working following distribution upgrade from Debian 10 to 11.

by gordon＠dickens.com

Thanks to David and everybody else that have replied to my problem. I have proceeded to uninstall the debian mailman3 packages and then endeavored to install everything with venv. I have implemented all of David's configuration suggestions which were very helpful. Now, mailman3 (core) appears to be working properly in that I can start/stop/restart/status the service. Also, the command "mailman info" from the venv prompt yields output which appears to be correct and the same as in the venv instructions. However, I have not been able to get mailman3-web working. All of my configuration files may be viewed here: https://dickens.com/etc-mailman3/ The above files are basically a mirror of the contents of my /etc/mailman3 directory except that I have obfuscated sensitive info such as keys, passwords and email addresses. Executing the mailman3-web service script with the command "systemctl start mailman3-web" starts everything without errors, however, the command "systemctl status mailman3-web" then generates the following output with errors: ● mailman3-web.service - GNU Mailman Web UI Loaded: loaded (/etc/mailman3/mailman3-web.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled) Active: failed (Result: exit-code) since Tue 2022-01-25 17:10:30 EST; 6s ago Process: 1718478 ExecStart=/opt/mailman/venv/bin/uwsgi --ini /etc/mailman3/uwsgi.ini (code=exited, status=1/FAILURE) Main PID: 1718478 (code=exited, status=1/FAILURE) CPU: 12ms Jan 25 17:10:29 slc.mailhub4u.com systemd[1]: Started GNU Mailman Web UI. Jan 25 17:10:30 slc.mailhub4u.com uwsgi[1718478]: [uWSGI] getting INI configuration from /etc/mailman3/uwsgi.ini Jan 25 17:10:30 slc.mailhub4u.com systemd[1]: mailman3-web.service: Main process exited, code=exited, status=1/FAILURE Jan 25 17:10:30 slc.mailhub4u.com systemd[1]: mailman3-web.service: Failed with result 'exit-code'. Also, /var/log/syslog and "journalctl | grep mailman3-web" contain these two lines of errors: Jan 25 14:00:46 slc systemd[1]: mailman3-web.service: Main process exited, code=exited, status=1/FAILURE Jan 25 14:00:46 slc systemd[1]: mailman3-web.service: Failed with result 'exit-code'. Also, other commands in the venv instructions do not work such as "mailman-web migrate" which produces volumes of error dialog starting with: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.9/site-packages/django/template/utils.py", line 66, in __getitem__ return self._engines[alias] KeyError: 'django' Then these two lines are then followed by over 50 lines of django and python error messages. I have not been able to find any hints or suggestions as to what I am doing wrong in my server's logs. FWIW, I have been working in the Unix/Linux command line environment for over 35 years and I have extensive LAMP, EXIM and Mailman2 experience. However, I have not ever worked with Django. I am usually able to resolve issues like this quickly, however, I am at a total loss as to what to do now with this mailman3 installation. I suspect that my unfamiliarity with Django may be my achilles heel. So, I am hoping that somebody here will soon be able to offer suggestions that might help me get everything working properly. I have several organization's mailings lists on this server and I need to get this fixed ASAP especially since my mailman installation has been down now for almost 3 weeks. As you might imagine, this is causing me alot of grief with my mailman3 users. So, please let me know any suggestions that you folks may have to get my mailman3 installation working again. Many Thanks, Gordon

3 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Finding a user to delete them

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Quanah Gibson-Mount writes: > But really, the documentation needs to be updated further to point > out the the Django ADMIN INTERFACE as the best way to do user > management, and not the python shell. The Django admin interface is something that most sites are not going to want to expose in addition to Postorius, and Postorius is needed for the users. If you have access to the host (another thing that most sites are not going to want to expose to list owners, who are most relevant to user management), you want to use the Mailman shell, not the Python shell (I assume Mailman shell is what you meant, but other readers may not). The bundled administrative interface *is* Postorius. The Mailman shell is basically a quick hack (sorry Abhilash; if you want to call it a masterwork and say the speed of development is testimony to your skills, I won't deny it ;-) to give more convenient access to internals to experienced Mailman hackers. More administrative features is something we plan to work on, but the Mailman project will focus on Postorius for the forseeable future. For alternatives to Postorius and the Mailman shell, Brian Carpenter (follow Allan's subthread) is working on a new management UI (using PHP), and I believe there's a working node.js API "out there somewhere". Please be very considerate of Brian's time; he and EMWD constitute a bulwark of the Mailman ecosystem and will be even busier with the UI project. But do pass on your suggestions to him as well as to us, he's indicated he's open to that. Steve

5 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Held messages: Long time waiating for response of the Mailman API

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Thanks for your patience with our team; I had already received your second "ping" and Mark's response, but due to the way my MUA presents my INBOX I didn't see it (aside to self: *don't* answer Mailman traffic from the inbox, use the "Mailman 3 virtual folder" view! :-). I would have written very differently if I had seen it.... Stephan Krinetzki writes: > Then we should maybe move to gunicorn, if this is the better way > (or at least better supported way) That's definitely a possibility. Among other things, gunicorn is a Python application, so all the Mailman devs have some hope of debugging it or at least localizing it. That's not true of uwsgi. The other possibility if you don't need high performance is to use the Apache mod_wsgi plugin which seems to be quite stable (that's what I do out of laziness -- I really should have uwsgi and gunicorn setups for testing -- my own throughput and admin needs are very modest). > After we enabled the "slow query log", we got in the postgresql > database the following output: > > 2022-01-25 12:49:41.538 CET [16126] LOG: unexpected EOF on > client connection with an open transaction Ouch. That is a database problem but I don't think it's a problem with the database. There are two database connections involved, one is Mailman core, the other is Django, but this > > > the message is delivered to the list immediately, says that core has finished at least some of its business. I guess it's possible that core drops the transaction on the floor, but that seems weird because I don't think this is a common problem. I'm not going to guess further, maybe Mark or Abhilash has something. ISTR other delay issues that have to do with very large databases. Do you have huge numbers of users, lists, or subscriptions to particular lists? Of course it could be Postorius/Django, but I think Postorius delegates all the logic and database work to core for this. Django's databases are user- and authentication-oriented, I don't recall any list-management logic in it that would induce this: > 2022-01-25 15:34:36.047 CET [16864] LOG: duration: 30760.028 > ms statement: DELETE FROM pendedkeyvalue WHERE > pendedkeyvalue.id = XXX Next log: > ERROR 2022-01-25 18:55:55,037 2599 django.request Service Unavailable: > /postorius/lists/games.lists.rwth-aachen.de/held_messages > ERROR 2022-01-25 18:58:24,325 2588 postorius Mailman REST API > not available Not sure about this. It could indicate a deadlock where each of core and the backend database is waiting for the other, so core isn't able to respond to Postorius. It looks to me like the rest of the traceback is a natural consequence of unavailability of the REST API. > * The venv is in /opt/mailman/mailman-venv > * The settings are in /opt/mailman/mailman-venv/mailman-suite/mailman-suite_project I don't see much to flag here. I don't recall whether allauth.socialaccount is supposed to be enabled or disabled if you have no allauth.socialaccount.providers enabled, but it's probably OK (and I don't see how it could be related to this problem): > contenten of settings.py > # Application definition > > INSTALLED_APPS = ( [...] > 'allauth', > 'allauth.account', > 'allauth.socialaccount', Database looks fine: > # Database > # https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.8/ref/settings/#databases > > DATABASES = { > #'default': { > # Example for PostgreSQL (recommanded for production): > 'default': { > 'ENGINE': 'django.db.backends.postgresql_psycopg2', > 'NAME': 'mailman', > 'USER': 'mailman', > 'PASSWORD': '<PASS>', > 'HOST': 'localhost', > } > } This shouldn't have anything to do with slow Postorius (full-text search is relevant only to archives, ie, HyperKitty), but Whoosh is known to be slower than Xapian: > # > # Full-text search engine > # > HAYSTACK_CONNECTIONS = { > 'default': { > 'ENGINE': 'haystack.backends.whoosh_backend.WhooshEngine', > 'PATH': os.path.join(BASE_DIR, "fulltext_index"), > # You can also use the Xapian engine, it's faster and more accurate, > # but requires another library. > # http://django-haystack.readthedocs.io/en/v2.4.1/installing_search_engines.h… > # Example configuration for Xapian: > #'ENGINE': 'xapian_backend.XapianEngine' > }, > } > Nope, the virtual machine is dedicated to Mailman3. Mailman3 as > venv, uwsgi as Webservice, Apache as Webserver, Postfix as > Mailserver and PostgreSQL 10 als Database, all on the same host Oh, well, I guess the case against Mailman gets a little stronger.... > At moment i think its a slow database. Because of the slow > database, the Mailman API is slow and so on. We are trying now to > solve the database part with postgresqltuner - maybe we will see > more details then. OK, keep us posted. I will say that it looks from the logs discussed above that PostgreSQL is waiting for Mailman, not vice versa (but that doesn't rule out a deadlock where both are waiting for the other). I hope my message trims things down enough that it rings a bell for somebody. Steve

3 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: migration

by Dave McGuire

On 7/30/21 3:48 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> Is there a way that I can "dump" the configuration from an existing >> mailman3 server, and "import" it into a new instance? I'd really like >> to avoid re-doing all of the configuration, etc, as there are quite a >> few lists and everything is set up pretty much the way I want it. > > If you use the same database manager it should be no problem to get a > dump of the existing Mailman database to load into the new instance, or > if these are on the same server, just point the new instance to the > existing database. In either case, the database should be loaded and the > Django commands `migrate`, collectstatic`, `compress` and > `compilemessages` run[1] before starting Mailman services. Mailman core > will run any necessary updates to its database upon startup. > > You may also need to rebuild the HyperKitty search index with the > `update_index` Django command, but you may be able to use the existing > one if the search engine is the same. > > [1] See > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html?highlight=colle… > et seq. Understood. I am not at all fluent in django interactions (I'm still not entirely sure of what django actually *is*) so I have some reading to do. Any pointers on "django wrangling for n00bs" would be great. As I mentioned, I've not been hacking on mm3, just using it. I'm an accomplished programmer, but embedded C and assembler are a few galaxies away from python and web services! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

4 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Mailman3 doesn't send Mails to users (Debian12 with Plesk)

by marcus＠mbautze.de

Hello, i already send this question to the plesk-forum but it seems that nobody there can help me :-( After updating from Debian 10 to 11 to 12, I now have mailman3 running on my server I then converted all lists from Mailman2 to Mailman3 following the instructions from mailman. I can access it via the web interface, manage everything etc. When I register on the web interface, I also receive the corresponding mails from Mailman (forgotten password...) Mails are also arriving, at least mails that are not allowed go into the mails to be approved. The problem, however, is that it does not send out any mails, nor do they appear in the archive. When I look in the Mailman-Log I find: May 16 01:44:55 2024 (6833) Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on port 25 May 16 01:48:15 2024 (61252) error opening connection to nntp_host: localhost [Errno 111] Connection refused May 16 01:48:15 2024 (61252) NNTP error for list vereinsmitglieder(a)ludothek.de: [Errno 111] Connection refused The configuration of Mailman.cfg looks like this: incoming: mailman.mta.postfix.LMTP outgoing: mailman.mta.deliver.deliver smtp_host: localhost smtp_port: 25 smtp_user: smtp_pass: lmtp_host: 127.0.0.1 lmtp_port: 8024 In Mailman manuals I find hints that the transport routes have to be added to the Postfix-config. Doesn't Debian/Plesk do this automatically? Does anyone else have an idea what I need to change to get my mails out? I did the conversion from mailman2 to mailman3 with root because it didn't work with "sudo -u list "m, but the files stored in the file system all belong to list, so that shouldn't be the problem.

1 year, 5 months

[MM3-users] Post-installation documentation?

by Stephen J. Turnbull

David Newman writes: > I am looking for a high-level "do these steps next to get a list > working" document rather than an API command reference. There's no such documentation. "Get a list working" depends on what you mean by "working". The basic answer is 1. Install Mailman 3 suite. 2. Log in to Postorius as an admin user and create the list. After that, it's case-specific. > - why do the venv docs and admin FAQ give different nginx configs for > the reverse proxy? Because the FAQ is providing a short snippet to solve a specific problem, the venv docs provide what I guess is somebody's full working config. Setting up a Mailman server is complex; usually any example you see in the docs is somebody's "works for me" configuration. > - Does the 'Secret_Hyperkitty_API_Key' need to go anywhere else besides > /opt/mailman/mm/mailman-hyperkitty.cfg? It needs to match MAILMAN_ARCHIVER_KEY in HyperKitty's settings.py. There are a couple of reasonable ways to organize HyperKitty and Postorius configs, I'm not sure where the appropriate settings.py would be on your server. > - For Django (presumably in /etc/mailman3/settings.py, but the docs > don't say), what values to use with Postfix to set up the email back end? The answer is "that depends on your mail environment". As far as I know, normally it just works with the default settings, but if your Postfix requires secure, you need to set that up: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/3.2/ref/settings/#std:setting-EMAIL_USE_T… and possibly the following 3 or 4 variables if authentication is needed. There was a thread on this a couple of weeks ago.

3 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Can "Pre Verified" set to yes by default?

by Alan So

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Hi Alan, > It occurred to me that Django template widgets are very flexible. It > may be possible to customize the template to accomplish this task. In > that case, the customized template would be kept in a place that > doesn't get overwritten in an upgrade, reducing the maintenance cost > (unless either Postorius or Django changes the template in a way that > seems unlikely to me). I'll try to take a look at that over the > holiday break -- that has the advantage that I just document how we > did it for you, and tell any future requests to RTFM and DIY. ;-) Many thanks for your effort especially during the long holiday. Really appreciate. > I agree, you need to be disciplined about what changes you are willing > to develop and maintain. This one seemed to me to be over that bar, > especially since you can put it in and not suffer too greatly if it > gets reverted in a upgrade and the maintainers don't notice. We do not always have full control of what we are willing to do. It is kind of a Pandora's box. Opening it up may lead to other requests which may no longer be patches but changes potentially conflicting with future upgrade. It is ok if people here recognize that we should have our own developers to participate in this kind of changes and also the maintenance but it is not the culture here. Particularly developers here are much more experienced in Win, C#, .NET than Linux, Python.

2 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Internal Server Error, Need 2 values to unpack in for loop; got 1

by Elias Rudberg

After some more digging into this I found a way to reproduce it using a much simpler URL, like the following (but with the real name instead of example.org) https://example.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/?items=x The error comes when Django is trying to process the template django-mailman3/django_mailman3/templates/django_mailman3/paginator/pagination.html which contains two for-loops of the following kind: {% for key, value in request.GET.items %} [... doing something with key and value here ...] {% endfor %} It seems like Django then gets confused by the different "items" variables involved, I think the value from the "?items=x" part of the request URL gets used instead of the "request.GET.items" (both are called "items" but they contain different things. I don't know if the for-loops in that template could be done differently to avoid this. There is something similar at https://github.com/django/django/blob/main/django/views/templates/technical… where the corresponding for-loop looks like this instead: {% for k, v in request_GET_items %} [...] {% endfor %} So there they write "request_GET_items" instead of "request.GET.items" for some reason. I don't know if doing it like that is possible in case of the mailman template, just mentioning it because it looks like it could be another way to achieve the same thing. I wrote a question about this in the Django forum also, here: https://forum.djangoproject.com/t/getting-error-need-2-values-to-unpack-in-… Hoping for an answer there to help figure out if this should be seen as a bug in Django or not. / Elias

1 year, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: virtual_alias_domains

by Johannes Rohr

Please ignore my previous message! I understand, alias domains can be added through the web interface. (took me quite a while of searching...) Johannes Am 06.01.23 um 08:37 schrieb Johannes Rohr: > Dear all, > > I have to set up mailman3 in an environment where postfix uses virtual > alias domains. This is described in > https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/mta.h… > > I don't understand, though, what I need to do to have mailman generate > > $PREFIX/var/data/postfix_vmap > > > > I have tried to follow the instructions at > https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/model/docs… > with the purpose of setting an alias domain. However, things go > sideways quickly: > >>>> from mailman.interfaces.domain import IDomainManager >>>> from zope.component import getUtility >>>> manager = getUtility(IDomainManager) > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> > File > "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/zope/component/_api.py", > line 165, in getUtility > raise ComponentLookupError(interface, name) > zope.interface.interfaces.ComponentLookupError: (<InterfaceClass > mailman.interfaces.domain.IDomainManager>, '') >>>> > > > So, something is missing. But, being a complete python layman, I do > not know what and how I fix it. > > Can someone give me a headsup? That would be greatly appreciated! > > Johannes > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > Archived at: > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… > > This message sent to johannes(a)rohr.org

2 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: [EXT] - moving lists to another server

by Bryan Kartzman

Wow, thanks for the very thorough response, Steve. I should have started by saying that when we built the current production server, we cloned it off the test server and we were thinking now to move the data onto another clone of the old test server. So, yes we would have to apply all the changes we made since we cloned the current production server, but everything else as far as the OS is concerned should be comparable (webserver, MTA, Mailman core, Django, Hyperkitty, Postorius). That's why I was just asking about the "data" aspects of mailman/hyperkitty/postorius. What would I have to move to replicate all the lists on the current production server to a new clone of the original test server once we've applied any changes we made to production server since the clone. ________________________________ From: Stephen J. Turnbull <turnbull.stephen.fw(a)u.tsukuba.ac.jp> Sent: Tuesday, November 7, 2023 1:07 PM To: Bryan Kartzman <bryan.kartzman(a)yu.edu> Cc: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org <mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> Subject: [EXT] - [MM3-users] moving lists to another server **External Email** bryan.kartzman(a)yu.edu writes: > I have both my mailman lists and django config in postgres > databases. These are Mailman 3 lists? What Django config? Do you mean Postorius and HyperKitty? Do you intend to use Postorius and HyperKitty on the new server? > If I want to move my lists to another server that is running > mailman 3, aside from copying the databases to the other server, Do you mean the other server is already actively distributing Mailman list traffic, managing users and archives? Or is it fresh instance? > what other things (perhaps all files under /var/lib/mailman3?, etc) > would I need to bring over to the other server? That's going to vary depending on the way your existing server is set up. A Mailman 3 instance is a complex system of cooperating applications. Assuming you have not patched or added any Python code, typical configuration and customizations include 1. Your webserver (Apache, nginx are most common) needs configuration to handle WSGI applications and may need modules enabled or installed for the WSGI server. This is usually installed as an OS distro package, and the configurations will live in /etc/apache2 or similar for another webserver. Depending on other content served by the two hosts you may have to edit the configuration on the new host rather than copy it from the old one. 2. The WSGI server is typically a separate application, although there is an Apache module for this. Gunicorn is a Python application usually installed via pip. I like to keep its Django configuration, which I call gunicorn.conf.py, in /etc/mailman3. (Mailman core also uses gunicorn, but that is transparent to you, it should not need custom configuration.) uwsgi is a C or C++ application normally supplied as a distro package. Don't know where it keeps its config files but since it's a distro package my first guess is /etc/uwsgi. 3. Your MTA, usually Postfix or Exim4, maybe Sendmail or qmail needs to be configured to route mail to Mailman, and apply any milters, signatures, and perhaps anti-yahoo configurations such as ARC. 4. Your database server, usually PostgreSQL or MySQL. 5. Mailman core has a single configuration file mailman.cfg, which I keep in /etc/mailman3. It also has a crontab, which in Debian- derived systems typically lives in the file /etc/cron.d/mailman3. Note that this could be implmented as a systemd timer, but I don't know if any distros do that. 6. Django, Postorius, and HyperKitty together constitute the mailman-web subsystem. I strongly recommend you use the mailmanweb Python package to manage Django and its applications. In any case I am not familiar with other organizations of those packages, so I'm going to assume it. If you are not using mailmanweb, you will need to be careful because most subpackages in the Django subsystem name their configuration files settings.py, urls.py, and views.py just like top-level, and distinguish them by using Python's attribute notation (eg, postorius.urls). a. Django application configuration for Postorius and HyperKitty goes in settings.py, which I put in /etc/mailman3. b. Django site configuration for Postorius and HyperKitty goes in urls.py (the routing configuration mapping URLs to views) and views.py (mapping views to Python code). I put these in /etc/mailmn3. c. Full-text indexing for HyperKitty. Default is Whoosh (a Python application) whose configuration goes in Django's settings.py. I prefer Xapian, which requires a separate application (Debian and Ubuntu have packages), but the needed configuration can be done in the top-level settings.py. 7. Template customization. If you have any customized templates for Mailman's email or Django's views, you'll need to copy and move them too. I haven't customized email, but Django's page templates can be kept separately with a path variable set in settings.py. I put them in a hierarchy under /etc/mailman3/templates. Maybe Mailman core has a similar setting? 8. Transient files. Aside from code and configuration, everything in Django is in the RDBMS, there are be no random files strewn around as far as I know. Mailman core is another matter. You can hope that all Mailman transient files are in its "var" hierarchy. $var_dir (the setting in mailman.cfg or inherited from schema.cfg) is the root of this hierarchy. I set var_dir=/opt/mailman/var, I think Mark may use var_dir=/opt/mailman/mm/var. I would guess that FHS-conformant distros would likely use var_dir=/var/lib/mailman3. a. The queue directories $var_dir/queue/* should be empty. Shut down the incoming mail and let mailman run until it's clear. (Normally takes < 5 seconds.) The exceptions are the shunt and bad queues, which are messages that Mailman doesn't know what to do with. With the venv active, run "mailman unshunt" to attempt to clear the shunt queue. Move anything that's left in shunt as well as any .bak or .tmp files into the bad queue for later treatment. These can be copied to the bad queue in the new instance. Use "mailman qfile <file>" to examine them to see if they can be deleted. b. I think the only stuff that ends up in the $var_dir/lists/* directories are digests being built for later distribution. Use the usual tools to send them off or copy them over to the new instance. c. There should be nothing in $var_dir/archives/hyperkitty/spool, which is temporary storage for messages to be archived. That is, it should get cleared up by the few seconds while incoming mail is stopped and outgoing messages are being processed. If there's anything still there, stash it away for later examination using "mailman qfile". (Don't put it in queue/bad or queue/archive though, this is a different process from the normal pipeline.) I think that's about it. Steve

1 year, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Dealing with hyperkitty spool files (was Re: Re: Fwd: [Django] ...)

by David Partain

> On Wed, 2021-03-03 at 08:29 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > 1. Am I correct in assuming that I can just use my favorite editor > > (vi) to remove the offending characters from the file? > No. The file is a Python pickle and you can't edit it. You would need > to get the message and the metadata from the pickle (you could at least > view it with the `mailman qfile` command), edit the message and then > re-pickle the message and metadata. And, in my impatience, I tried it before receiving your response and now I seem to have done silliness in my database :( New error in mailman-web.log: AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'subject' Sigh. Stupid me. If you have suggestions on fixing that... Right now, my plan is simply to remove the first message in the queue (since I assume it'll be the "broken" one) and it'll just not be in the archive. Life's hard. Even if I unpack 'em to edit, I'll find mail in, for example, in base64, and I'm not going to fix the mail by decoding, editing, re-encoding, ... Nope. > > 3. Can I do something to make hyperkitty go through the spool? > > > > I don't know what you mean. Sorry I wasn't clear. I simply meant, "Is there a way to start hyperkitty going through the spool manually?" It sounds like, though, that I don't need to do that if it's going to happen that often anyway. Cheers, David

4 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Moderating posts via email

by Abhilash Raj

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017, at 02:52 PM, Dmitry Makovey wrote: > On 10/26/2017 02:46 PM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 26, 2017, at 02:21 PM, Dmitry Makovey wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> we are trying to figure out what is that we're doing wrong as we can't > >> use instructions that mailman sends with information on held messages as > >> referenced in: > >> https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/blob/master/src/mailman/chains/hold.py#L… > >> > >> In particular - replying to the message with "Approved: listpassword" we > >> were not able to approve any message. > > > > Did you add it to the body/subject of the email? > > We have added "Approved: listpassword" to the body of the message as a > first line as advised. > > > > AFAIK, Mailman looks for "Approed" header to approve the held messages. > > We did not try to inject "Approved: listpassword" header into the > message body itself though. And if that is the way it is supposed to > function I'm questioning whether average user would be able to operate > it. I am sorry, it does indeed say that you can add it to the first line of the body. I haven't tried doing it so I am not sure if it works, maybe someone else can comment on it. Given how emails are not so good at being secret, I'd not advise using it despite it's current state. Although, if it is a feature, it should work regardless! -- Abhilash Raj maxking(a)asynchronous.in

8 years

[MM3-users] Re: ValueError: The ADMINS setting must be a list of 2-tuples.

by David Partain

Thanks! I can also be happy knowing that the next person who Googles the same error will find an answer, even if my silliness will also live on. I can take that 🙂 David ________________________________ From: Stephen J. Turnbull <turnbull.stephen.fw(a)u.tsukuba.ac.jp> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2024 17:04 To: David Partain <david.partain(a)ericsson.com> Cc: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org <mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> Subject: [MM3-users] Re: ValueError: The ADMINS setting must be a list of 2-tuples. David Partain via Mailman-users writes: > And do I feel silly. Please don't. You made a good report with all the information needed to point out a fix, even if it was obvious *in hindsight*. Of course we appreciate the effort of those who figure it out for themselves and save us a bug report, but a good report and a quick fix for it has a lot of educational value, too. Steve ________________________________ From: Stephen J. Turnbull <turnbull.stephen.fw(a)u.tsukuba.ac.jp> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2024 17:04 To: David Partain <david.partain(a)ericsson.com> Cc: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org <mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> Subject: [MM3-users] Re: ValueError: The ADMINS setting must be a list of 2-tuples. David Partain via Mailman-users writes: > And do I feel silly. Please don't. You made a good report with all the information needed to point out a fix, even if it was obvious *in hindsight*. Of course we appreciate the effort of those who figure it out for themselves and save us a bug report, but a good report and a quick fix for it has a lot of educational value, too. Steve

1 year, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Member Issue Discovered

by Brian Carpenter

On 10/23/20 11:19 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Here's a thought. For Affinity/Empathy at least, how about using Mailman > core's user as the Affinity registered user. I.e., if someone's first > interaction is to register with Affinity, have that registration create > a core user to keep the Affinity registration data. This core user > already accommodates a display_name and password and email address(es). > > If the person already is a core user when registering for Affinity, just > update the core user as needed, probably only a password reset or just > setting it if it is currently None. > > Then you don't have the issue of another, separate registration for > Affinity. > > This would be more difficult for Postorius/Hyperkitty because those > users are Django users, but that isn't an issue for Affinity. > > -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San > Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing > list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to > mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ How would a person already be a core user outside of a registration with Affinity? Via a list subscription or the import21 script? I do agree overall that we can more easily address some/all of these issues more easily and quicker due to not being tied to Django. I hope to get all of this address in our Nov development cycle. I do want to apologize for my tone Mark. I was wrong in the way I communicated. > -- Brian Carpenter Harmonylists.com Emwd.com

5 years

[MM3-users] Re: nginx configuration on a multitasking server

by David Newman

On 12/10/21 12:57 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 12/10/21 10:22 AM, David Newman wrote: >> >> 1. At least on my system, the proxy_pass statement will only run >> without errors if I change this to a fully formed URL, e.g., >> 'proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:8000'. Is this a typo in the docs? > > > I changed it at > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html#nginx-configura… > but I wonder if we shouldn't be using `uwsgi_pass` instead of proxy_pass. > > See https://nginx.org/en/docs/http/ngx_http_uwsgi_module.html#uwsgi_pass > > Are you using uwsgi or some other wsgi server. uwsgi, per the venv and PDF docs. Thanks for the fix. Regarding the uwsgi_pass docs, would 'uwsgi_pass_header' directives replace the 'proxy_set_header' ones in the venv doc? Looking at the uwsgi doc, it seems they might do different things. >> 2. What document root(s) and alias(es) to use for Postorius and >> Hyperkitty and the Django admin on a server that also runs other >> services (e.g., Postfix for non-list mail and Roundcubemail)? > > > If you can separate Mailman from other services by subdomain Alas, I can do that for all but one of the subdomains I have in production. For the past 15 or so years, users of that subdomain have used mail.domain.tld for MM2, roundcubemail, and an admin web UI that manages regular mail. The "/" has gone to roundcubemail, and users to go other directories for the other services. For example, MM2 users currently go to /mailman. , you can > configure them separately and for Mailman, root is irrelevant as > everything is proxied or aliased in a location directive. For example, > Mailman on the server that supports this list uses the > lists.mailman3.org domain and we have (excerpted) > ``` > server { > listen 443 default_server; > root /usr/share/nginx/html; > index index.html index.htm; > # root and index are probably irrelevant as we never go there > server_name lists.mailman3.org; > ssl on; > #ssl stuff > location / { > proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:8000/; > # other proxy stuff In this example, / goes to MM3. The assumption here and in the MM3 docs is that we're standing up a dedicated server where MM3 pages should be served as the default. That's a totally valid design decision, and one could argue it's superior to running a bunch of other services on one machine. It's not the situation I have to deal with, though. Short of changing a long-standing URL, what I'm looking to do is have "/" continue to default to roundcubemail, and have users type in longer URLs for MM3 and other services. You're right that the root and index directives above are irrelevant since / goes to MM3 via proxy. What I'm asking is what root(s) and location(s) to use with nginx where MM3 isn't the default. Thanks again! dn > } > location /static/ { > alias /var/spool/mailman-web/static/; > } > location /robots.txt { > alias /usr/share/nginx/html/robots.txt; > } > location /favicon.ico { > alias /var/www/listorg/images/favicon.ico; > } > } > ``` > And for the other stuff we have > ``` > server { > listen 443; > server_name .list.org mirror.list.org mirror.mailman3.org; > root /var/www/listorg; > ssl on; > # ssl stuff > } > >

3 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Creating and placing custom templates

by kelly.close＠lrewater.com

I know there are previous threads related to this topic but none were very recent so I thought I'd start a new one. I've referenced two of the old ones below. I am attempting to implement a custom footer on one of my lists. This seems like it should be straightforward but I'm clearly doing something wrong, since the default footer keeps coming through despite my efforts. I've referenced the docs as well as these two posts, to no avail. https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/… https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… Here's what I'm doing: I found my templates folder and verified it matched what is set in the mailman.cfg file - on my Ubuntu Bionic system it is /var/lib/mailman3/templates/ In that folder I created the following folders and made sure they were properly owned (by list:list) /var/lib/mailman3/templates/lists/f2p2-test.udfcd-lists.org/en/ Into that en/ folder I placed a file called "list:member:regular:footer" It is a text file with just one line of text in it (a link to a website). Also, because there was a mention in one of the earlier posts that this file should have a .txt extension, I also put the same file in there named "list:member:regular:footer.txt". I have two of my own emails subscribed t my "f2p2-test" list at the domain udfcd-lists.org. When I post to the list, and check my other email for the disseminated post, it still has the default footer. I have restarted the mailman3 service. Can anyone spot an obvious error here or offer troubleshooting suggestions? Thank You! ~Kelly

6 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Problems configuring hyperkitty

by Alain D D Williams

I am having another go at installing mailman3 - I seem to have mailman3 & postorius working - although basic testing, much more needed to confirm that I understand it. I want to get hyperkitty working before I start full testing. I am running Debian 12 - Bookworm and have installed the Debian packages. The database is Mysql. This is not a virtualenv setup. There is no documentation in the hyperkitty package so I am following: https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/hyperkitty/en/latest/install.html I read the following: "The database can be created with the following command: django-admin migrate --pythonpath example_project --settings settings " I assume that that will create some database tables. Hopefully this will have been done by installing package python3-mailman-hyperkitty. • What database & tables will that be ? It would be really useful to be told so that I can check. • The config file is: /etc/mailman3/mailman-hyperkitty.cfg This does not contain any comment about databases. Where does hyperkitty get its database parameters from ? • I have several different maildomains each with several lists. Some lists in different domains have the same name. Do I need a different example_project/settings.py for each domain, if so what changes ? One of the next things that I will need to do is to import archives from mailman2. How does the command below change for the different domains ? django-admin hyperkitty_import --pythonpath example_project --settings settings -l ADDRESS mbox_file [mbox_file ...] Is there some better documentation that I have failed to find ? Regards -- Alain Williams Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer. +44 (0) 787 668 0256 https://www.phcomp.co.uk/ Parliament Hill Computers. Registration Information: https://www.phcomp.co.uk/Contact.html #include <std_disclaimer.h>

11 months, 2 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: compatibility of mailman 3.3.10 with mariadb 11.4 LTS

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Michael, if you're going to "correct" people in public, you really should try for a higher degree of accuracy. Michael Bayer writes: > support for different databases is the responsibility of GNU > Mailman, Not so. First, "responsibility" is something we explicitly disclaim ("no warrantee", "as is", etc). Second, if code that works perfectly well with other MySQL-family databases fails with a specific product and version, we would be well within accepted practice to say "tough luck, use a compatible version". And third, SQLAlchemy advertises that it provides a common API independent of vendor and version of the backend database ... that's *why* we use it. Not to "avoid responsibility", but because the product does it very well. But it does mean we have almost no information about version quirks, and only very rarely do we see vendor-specific issues. > SQLAlchemy is a database access library that does not guarantee an > application works with a particular database as it supports > vendor-specific behaviors and constructs. Sure, but we don't ask it to do anything vendor-specific, We use only APIs common to all RDBMSes we claim to support. To the extent that SQLAlchemy opts to use vendor-specific features to support those APIs, we don't know about it. > please dont mislead users into thinking the SQLAlchemy project is > providing support for GNU Mailman, I didn't. I said it *should* work, and if that's not good enough for the OP, I told them where to find people who would have data on their specific question. > thanks You're welcome. Steve

7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Join a Mailman 3 list?

by Cathryn McGuire

Hi Mark, Stephen & Thomas, We've successfully merged our Mailman 2 list into Mailman 3. EMWD worked over the weekend to get it done for our members. We're pretty grateful. There are a few things we're trying to get our heads around, specifically to do with the Affinity Web UI. Most of it is pretty self explanatory, and I can see where it will be more aesthetically pleasing to manage, but a few things that aren't so intuitive. Is anyone working with Mailman 3 and Affinity that could help us through the set up? For instance, when I log in as owner and go to change my password, it won't take a new one and asks me (with a pull down menu box) which account I want to change the password for, and it gives me a list of my emails, and also the other owner's email address. When I choose the email I'm logged in under, it says it's not the correct "credentials." Has anyone had this issue? Another thing is, and Stephen J. Turnbull prepared us for this, that the transferred membership are all "enabled" but not "registered." I understand we have to send a membership wide notification with a link to the Affinity log in page, and instructions going to the top right hand and clicking on the login icon, putting in their email address (the one in the system) and adding a password OR do they have to "create" a new sign in? Thanks for any info you can give us about Affinity. (I see Brian Carpenter was beta testing it 4 years ago.) Cheers, Cathryn

4 months, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman sends Welcome emails, but does not send [List] postings emails

by Nelson Strother

Neither .../logs/mailman.log nor /var/log/syslog contain any recording of "Master detected ..." nor process exits other than at the time of `mailman stop` commands. Watching during these transitions with `vmstat` shows a decrease in free pages and an increase in swapping, but no definitive hint of the OOM reaper running. I did not intend to imply that `mailman start` (predictably) consumes more time than `mailman restart`. Both are lengthy and variable; I think one cause for `mailman stop` consuming more time than usual is when mailman receives a message as it is trying to stop, which is understandable. Interestingly if I use `systemctl start mailman` thus far the results are: - the wall clock duration is shorter than when `mailman start` is issued from the command line, and -- either that all of the runners remain present once they are started, -- or I can see in syslog a traceback from each missing runner process starting from .../mailman/.local/bin/runner and ending with "flufl.lock._lockfile.NotLockedError: Already unlocked". I do not yet understand how to make use of these clues, but at least one can see an epitaph from each deceased process. On 6/6/23 14:47, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 6/6/23 07:58, Nelson Strother wrote: >> >> No errors are being recorded in the mailman log files. This is GNU >> Mailman 3.3.8 via `pip install mailman` on Debian 5.10.179-1 >> (2023-05-12) running on a shared system where VMware gives this >> server enough cycles that `mailman start` and `mailman stop` each >> consume from 20 minutes to an hour of wall clock time, so I do not >> issue those commands recreationally, attempting to keep the system >> available for users. What should I do to help understand the cause >> for these failures? > > > If a runner has died, its death and a reason should be logged in > Mailman's var/logs/mailman.log with a message similar to > > Master detected subprocess exit (pid: 8617, why: SIGNAL 15, class: in, > slice: 1/1) > > This may not be the case if the runner is killed by the OS for an out > of memory or similar reason. For this, look in syslog. > > `mailman stop` can take a long time because it is waiting for a runner > to stop. See https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/255 but that > issue was fixed long ago. I don't understand why `mailman start` would > take more time than `mailman restart`. In fact, `mailman restart` > effectively does `stop` and `start`, but only for those runners which > are running. > > Since you seem to frequently have missing runners, I suspect something > like an OOM condition is causing the OS to kill them. Although, I > wonder if you are correctly interpreting the logs. While the absence > of the `retry`, `task`, `nntp` and `archive` runners might not be > noticed except for messages not being archived, if either the `in` or > `pipeline` runner is not running, no list posts will be processed. > > >> Would not it be helpful for this limitation of restart to be included >> in: >> mailman restart --help >> with a suggestion to use `mailman stop` and `mailman start` instead? > > > I have just filed https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/1082 for > this. >

2 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman, etc. upgrade woes and persistent bugs

by Brian Carpenter

On 2/13/21 10:53 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-users wrote: > But how do you display a "Membership List page" for admins in MM3 > (choice of wording is specific to other emails you've posted today) > without third-party application(s), and isn't that too a shortcoming in > MM3 due to that functionality being present in MM2? Look, without a > doubt the REST API of MM3 Core is cool, but let's be honest, all the 3rd > party wrapping and baggage is, well, not so cool. But, again being > honest, you can't have a MM3 system without all of those things. With > MM2 we have all those things, and we are happy with them.:) Affinity is just a UI that sits on top of Mailman 3 core. Most of its functions and displays come from Mailman 3 core. Everything I mentioned about how Affinity displays List Member Management to List Owners uses MM3's REST api to do so. In my opinion, Postorius is nowhere near in taking advantage of all that Mailman 3 core offers along with free tools such as Bootstrap 4. The only thing that is holding Postorius back is time to improve it and that is not the fault of MM3 or the developers. The thing to take away from this however is Postorius still has the potential (because the foundation is there) to be a great modern UI for Mailman 3 core. MM2 does not have that potential and never will. Sure it works until it doesn't. I am pretty sure Pipermail is a wrapper and not an inherit part of MM2. -- Brian Carpenter Harmonylists.com Emwd.com

4 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: nginx configuration on a multitasking server

by Mark Sapiro

On 12/10/21 3:22 PM, David Newman wrote: > On 12/10/21 12:57 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >> Are you using uwsgi or some other wsgi server. > > uwsgi, per the venv and PDF docs. Thanks for the fix. > > Regarding the uwsgi_pass docs, would 'uwsgi_pass_header' directives > replace the 'proxy_set_header' ones in the venv doc? > > Looking at the uwsgi doc, it seems they might do different things. If you are using uwsgi and proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:8000 is working for you, then I'm satisfied that the docs are OK now and we don't need to say anything about uwsgi_pass. > It's not the situation I have to deal with, though. Short of changing a > long-standing URL, what I'm looking to do is have "/" continue to > default to roundcubemail, and have users type in longer URLs for MM3 and > other services. I think you can set the document root to the roundcubemail root and then set locations for the Mailman destinations as, e.g. location /mailman3/ { proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:8000; proxy_set_header Host $host; proxy_set_header X-Forwarded-For $remote_addr; } location /archives/ { proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:8000; proxy_set_header Host $host; proxy_set_header X-Forwarded-For $remote_addr; } location /accounts/ { proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:8000; proxy_set_header Host $host; proxy_set_header X-Forwarded-For $remote_addr; } location /admin/ { proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:8000; proxy_set_header Host $host; proxy_set_header X-Forwarded-For $remote_addr; } location /user-profile/ { proxy_pass http://127.0.0.1:8000; proxy_set_header Host $host; proxy_set_header X-Forwarded-For $remote_addr; } I haven't tried anything like this, so I'm not sure it will work, but I think so. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: rDNS issue? Helo name contains an IP address (HELO was [127.0.0.1]) and not is valid

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Kyriakos Terzopoulos writes: > No more mail being marked as spam. However I face a (hopefully) new > problem now. When I mass subscribe the users, they get an initial > invitation email. However after replying I get this in the exim > logs, the subsequent mails do not arrive and the users are not > verified at all: > > 2023-10-25 13:36:41 1qvbFh-001kcb-Ig <= myname(a)myproject.eu > H=localhost (webmail.myproject.eu) [127.0.0.1] P=esmtpa > A=dovecot_login: myname(a)myproject.eu S=1726 > id=32091a0e12cc23fa988380639a4c44a6@ myproject.eu > 2023-10-25 13:36:41 1qvbFh-001kcb-Ig == partners(a)myproject.eu > <partners-confirm+6df62cd0f805b2b66b21a43a42ec8ee77487e8ad(a)myproject.eu> > R=mailman3_router T=mailman3_transport defer (-54): > retry time not reached for any host for ' myproject.eu' It looks like 'myname' has replied to the invitation, and was received by this MTA (is it Mailman's MTA?). Then delivery to Mailman was deferred because delivery to ' myproject.eu' has failed, and Exim is queueing them for future delivery, until the next retry time. Try using 'runq' then checking the log to see why mail is failing in the first place. I do not understand why there are spaces before the host name in these lines: > id=32091a0e12cc23fa988380639a4c44a6@ myproject.eu > retry time not reached for any host for ' myproject.eu' The first never happens in my Exim instance. (I have no instances of "retry time not reached" at all in my logs.) That suggests a misconfiguration, in Exim, in Mailman, or Postorius. You should check the mailman3_router and the mailman3_transport first because they're easier. Steve

2 years

[MM3-users] Re: Moderating posts via email

by Barry Warsaw

On Oct 26, 2017, at 17:21, Dmitry Makovey <dmakovey(a)stanford.edu> wrote: > > we are trying to figure out what is that we're doing wrong as we can't > use instructions that mailman sends with information on held messages as > referenced in: > https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/blob/master/src/mailman/chains/hold.py#L… > > In particular - replying to the message with "Approved: listpassword" we > were not able to approve any message. I’m pretty sure you’re not doing anything wrong, it just doesn’t work. There are two use cases for Approved: header. The first is that the list admin can send a pre-approved message to the mailing list, which bypasses all rule checks except for dmarc-mitigation and no-senders. At least, that’s what happens with the default, built-in chain. But that’s not what you’re talking about here. The second use case is where you reply to the subpart with the ‘confirm <token>’ Subject. This should go to the -confirm@ or -requests@ subaddress (both of which are processed by the command runner). As that bit of text says, the held message should be discarded if there’s no matching Approved: header (in the first non-blank line of the message body, or in a header). The held message will be accepted if it has a matching Approved: header. The problem is that the current implementation of the ‘confirm’ command doesn’t distinguish the operation based on the “pend key” of the record matching the token. Meaning, those tokens are used to represent held messages *and* held subscriptions, and the ‘confirm’ command only routes its message to the subscription handler. So I’d say this is a bug in the ‘confirm’ command handler. -Barry

8 years

[MM3-users] Re: Help with fresh debian install

by Abhilash Raj

On Sat, Oct 5, 2019, at 7:27 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Jonas Meurer writes: > > > > This is the issue. I don't know how the Debian packages do this, but I > > > recommend having a 'mailman' user that owns everything and running > > > commands as that user. > > > > The Debian package uses user `list` for this. It also provides a command > > `mailman-wrapper` which takes care of running mailman commands as this user. Is this wrapper a sort of alias to `sudo -u list mailman` or something more than that? > > > > It would be awesome if the upstream /usr/bin/mailman command could take > > care of this automatically, making the wrapper command obsolete. > > What precisely is "this"? We already have the mailman command; are > you suggesting it should be suid/sgid mailman/list/whatever? That's > pretty obviously a vulnerability. If there are any RCEs *anywhere* on > your host, your Mailman is pwned. If you know your installation is > secure enough or you just don't care, fine, chmod it yourself. > > If not, how do you propose upstream "take care of it?" > > Steve > > > -- > Associate Professor Division of Policy and Planning Science > http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/ Faculty of Systems and Information > Email: turnbull(a)sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba > Tel: 029-853-5175 Tennodai 1-1-1, Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

6 years

[MM3-users] Re: Things I miss about mailman2

by Quanah Gibson-Mount

--On Wednesday, March 18, 2020 2:58 AM -0700 Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > This was implemented by > <https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/merge_requests/397> and released > in Postorius 1.3.0. Ok, that would be the issue... Debian 10 only has 1.2.4-1 bundled. I'll see if I can find a backport for 1.3. >>> This was not "removed". It just hasn't been implemented in MM 3 yet. >> >> So in terms of available functionality that was present in MM2, it was >> removed. It may need to be re-implemented, but this was a core feature >> that was present in the prior version that is no longer available. > > > Yes, we are aware of many things that are not yet exposed/implemented in > Postorius and elsewhere. There are currently 580 open issues at > <https://gitlab.com/groups/mailman/-/issues>. We are working on these > things as we can. We would love to have your help in fixing these. In > the mean time, there are really only 2 or 3 core developers working on > this and we are all volunteers, so it takes time. I fully understand and would love to contribute. The problem being that I already am doing this for multiple other projects where we're facing the same issue -- Lots of people use the software and there are the occasional contributions, but few people who are willing to be core members to really help drive the projects, and I can only drive so many and do my paying job. :/ Regards, Quanah -- Quanah Gibson-Mount Product Architect Symas Corporation Packaged, certified, and supported LDAP solutions powered by OpenLDAP: <http://www.symas.com>

5 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Memory footprint

by Stephen J. Turnbull

After I wrote this, I see that the OP has a usecase where they've got a shrunk to fit AWS instance. So this is more useful than I thought, but I still don't think that's a huge audience. (The OP himself just upgraded the instance, after all.) Barry Warsaw writes: > I can imagine different ways of doing it. For example, systemd > socket activation on OSes that support that for the REST and LMTP > servers. And maybe use inotify in the master watcher to spawn > queue processing runners on demand. These would all be interesting > things to explore, although they may not be universally appropriate > (i.e. not all *nix systems supported by Mailman run systemd, nor > support inotify). Not to mention that spawning is typically a heavyweight action, so if you're heavily loaded enough to care about load, you'd need to add complex logic like that used by Apache to ensure you have same processes/threads hanging around to answer frequent calls, rather than one-shot "CGI" style. We do have thread and process pools in Python, but they wouldn't necessarily be compatible with this use case combined with systemd or inotify without additional logic in Mailman. If somebody wants to mess with this specifically, it could be useful. But I think it's kind of a long shot given the kinds of scenarios Mailman is typically used in (lightweight Mom & Pop shops, virtual servers with Mailman-as-a-Service, and hard-core 5,000-list 100,000 message per day university settings be the not unusual extremes). Sort of like gilectomy efforts in Python itself (maybe //arry would like to work on this? ;-) ;-) nudge nudge say-no-more, eh?) Regards,

8 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: Django logins for new subscribers

by Alex McLean

On 12 January 2018 at 19:19, Abhilash Raj <maxking(a)asynchronous.in> wrote: > Yes, that is the expected behavior. Postorius is just one of the front-end for Mailman (and only one, for now), so we didn't think it would make sense to create account for every Mailman User in Postorius as well. Ok thanks. From my perspective this is confusing behaviour though, especially for people new to the concept of mailing lists. There are three things to understand in the suite - mailman, postorius and hyperkitty. It seems that hyperkitty is trying hard to be a web forum and actually does a really good job (one reason why we're switching), but postorious links to it as an archive rather than a full interface to the discussion. The default welcome email didn't contain any web links to postorius or hyperkitty. I realise I can change such texts and will spend some time on this. I'd be interested to hear advice from others who have done this sort of thing. > So, basically everyone has to go through the sign-up process, which isn't really hard if you choose one of the social logins. Yes true. > It wouldn't be very hard to write a script that "creates" User accounts for everyone and then users go through the "Forgot Password" workflow to set their passwords. You'd get the list of all users from Mailman's API and then do a `get_or_create()` on each one of them (simplest of all approaches, you can ofcourse better ways to do the same). Ok, I'll look into this. Thanks for the https nudge also by the way, it is on my todo! cheers alex

7 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Database running VERY hot

by Abhilash Raj

Hi Darren, On 3/8/18 9:43 AM, Darren Smith wrote: > Hello all, > > We had an old installation of Mailman 2.1 across three servers with over > 32,000 mailing lists on them. Due to circumstances beyond my control, we > had to shut them down and quickly set up Mailman 3 on a new server. > > We have Mailman3 set up on a single server this time, as we were having > problems with a 3-server setup and Hyperkitty and archives. Long story > short, it is up and running, and our users are starting to come back. > > However, we do not have very many users hitting Postorius and Hyperkitty > yet, and we are seeing a distressing number of 504 gateway timeouts. > > We noticed that there is a significant number of queries to the API > whenever hitting Postorius's front page to load the mailing lists, and then > on every load. It looks as if it makes a single call to the API to get > information about a single list, and does this 10 times - once for each > list - to render the page. This gets much worse when users set the view to > 200 per page, as they are inclined to do with 32,000 mailing lists... > > What we've done, actually, is to override the front page and point the > users to a different set of static pages where we have all of our lists > categorized and searchable, and when they find the list they are looking > for, we have a link back to postorius. It has taken a lot of the stress off > of the server. > > However, I still see where the database at times can run VERY hot. > > We have set up this server to run with PostgreSQL. When I do a ps aux | > grep postgres, I find a lot of processes that have been spawned to take > care of mailman - a dozen or so. However, one of the threads is taking up > about 85% of the load, another thread about 14%, and little dribbles here > and there from the rest of the threads. > > Here are the questions: > > 1) Has anyone run into problems like these? I would think that maybe this > is an issue having so many mailing lists, but honestly there aren't that > many people using the system yet. It is going to ramp up as the users > realize that we are live again, but we aren't getting that much traffic. I can say that in general, Postorius doesn't really optimize REST API queries and so loading a single page can sometimes make things bad. Currently, the largest installation of Mailman 3 that we know of runs at lists.fedoraproejct.org and the administrators of the list would know how well does our Web UI scale. However, I don't think we have anyone actively working on trying to fix this particular issue. Pull Requests and fixes are welcome :) > > 2) Is there any configuration that I can set, especially with regards to > the database, so that it can be used more efficiently and not throttle > through one or two threads? There isn't any configuration that would change how databases are used in Mailman Core. Django *may* have some, but I don't know about any of them of the top of my head. thanks, Abhilash

7 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Moving mm2 mail archives to mm3

by Abhilash Raj

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017, at 05:43 AM, Henrik Rasmussen wrote: > > See 'django-admin hyperkitty_import --help' for more info. This command is incomplete, you need to specify --settings path-to-settings.py or have DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE environment var setup. (I think settings.py in the previous command should be on PythonPATH). Alternatively, you can use `python manage.py hyperkitty_import --help`. > Is this also valid using Docker-mailman? I don't have a hyperkitty_import > django command. How do I import MM2 archives in Docker-MM3? > > # docker exec -it mailman-web bash Here you can do: bash-4.3# python manage.py hyperkitty_import --help You'd also need to put the archives somewhere it can be seen from insider the container. The best place I guess would be `/opt/mailman/web/` which is mounted at `/opt/mailman-web-data` from inside the mailman-web container. > bash-4.3# django-admin help > > Type 'django-admin help <subcommand>' for help on a specific subcommand. > > Available subcommands: > > [django] > check > compilemessages > createcachetable > dbshell > diffsettings > dumpdata > flush > inspectdb > loaddata > makemessages > makemigrations > migrate > runserver > sendtestemail > shell > showmigrations > sqlflush > sqlmigrate > sqlsequencereset > squashmigrations > startapp > startproject > test > testserver > Note that only Django core commands are listed as settings are not > properly configured (error: Requested setting INSTALLED_APPS, but > settings are not configured. You must either define the environment > variable DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE or call settings.configure() before > accessing settings.). > > -- > Henrik Rasmussen > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ -- thanks, Abhilash Raj

8 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: Still unable to get mailman3 working on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS

by Mark Sapiro

On 1/9/22 3:26 AM, Michael Heseltine wrote: >> This isn't your immediate problem, but it is an issue. The above isn't >> too informative. What do you get if you run >> >> /opt/mailman/mm/bin/django-admin qcluster >> >> manually? > > I get the following: > >> # /opt/mailman/mm/bin/django-admin qcluster >> 11:50:41 [Q] INFO Q Cluster autumn-sixteen-tango-march starting. >> 11:50:41 [Q] INFO Process-1:1 ready for work at 3725610 >> 11:50:41 [Q] INFO Process-1:2 ready for work at 3725611 >> 11:50:42 [Q] INFO Process-1:3 ready for work at 3725612 >> 11:50:42 [Q] INFO Process-1:4 ready for work at 3725613 >> 11:50:42 [Q] INFO Process-1:5 monitoring at 3725614 >> 11:50:42 [Q] INFO Process-1 guarding cluster autumn-sixteen-tango-march >> 11:50:42 [Q] INFO Process-1:6 pushing tasks at 3725615 >> 11:50:42 [Q] INFO Q Cluster autumn-sixteen-tango-march running. > > And then nothing until I end the command with Ctrl-C. This is what I would expect. It seems to be working. I'm not sure why it fails when run from systemd. Are you running memcached? systemctl status memcached.service That needs to be installed and running for qcluster. > Sorry, I didn't realize that they were truncated. Here are ( I hope) the full logs from /var/log/syslog: > >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists systemd[1]: Started GNU Mailman web interfaces. >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: !!! >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: !!! WARNING: configuration file should have a valid Python extension. >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: !!! >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: Traceback (most recent call last): >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 209, in run >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: self.sleep() >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 357, in sleep >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: ready = select.select([self.PIPE[0]], [], [], 1.0) >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 242, in handle_chld >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: self.reap_workers() >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 525, in reap_workers >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: raise HaltServer(reason, self.WORKER_BOOT_ERROR) >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: gunicorn.errors.HaltServer: <HaltServer 'Worker failed to boot.' 3> >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred: >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: Traceback (most recent call last): >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/bin/gunicorn", line 14, in <module> >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: sys.exit(gunicorn.app.wsgiapp.run()) >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/app/wsgiapp.py", line 67, in run >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: WSGIApplication("%(prog)s [OPTIONS] [APP_MODULE]").run() >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/app/base.py", line 231, in run >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: super().run() >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/app/base.py", line 72, in run >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: Arbiter(self).run() >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 229, in run >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: self.halt(reason=inst.reason, exit_status=inst.exit_status) >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 342, in halt >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: self.stop() >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 393, in stop >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: time.sleep(0.1) >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 242, in handle_chld >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: self.reap_workers() >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.8/site-packages/gunicorn/arbiter.py", line 525, in reap_workers >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: raise HaltServer(reason, self.WORKER_BOOT_ERROR) >> Jan 8 21:24:57 lists gunicorn[3707354]: gunicorn.errors.HaltServer: <HaltServer 'Worker failed to boot.' 3> >> Jan 8 21:24:58 lists systemd[1]: gunicorn.service: Main process exited, code=exited, status=1/FAILURE >> Jan 8 21:24:58 lists systemd[1]: gunicorn.service: Failed with result 'exit-code'. I'm not sure about this one either. You might want to look at https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24488891/gunicorn-errors-haltserver-hal… or other hits from https://www.google.com/search?q=gunicorn+worker+failed+to+boot Are your files /etc/systemd/system/gunicorn.service /opt/mailman/mm/bin/gunicorn opt/mailman/mm/gunicorn.conf the same as recommended at https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%203%20installation%20experience?action=At… https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%203%20installation%20experience?action=At… https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%203%20installation%20experience?action=At… -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman 3 localization

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Simon Hanna writes: > > We would like to contribute further german translations, since there > > are still some parts missing, e.g. in the postorious interface. Would > > https://translations.launchpad.net/mailman/3.0/+pots/mailman/de/+translate > > be the right place to do so, so that everybody could use our > > translations? I don't think that is the right place to do it, because I'm sure Ubuntu lags our releases by quite a bit. Obviously on Launchpad you should translate for their releases. > I wanted to set it up, but the requirement is to use a free hosted > solution. If by "free" you mean we can't afford to pay for a service, that's probably not true. If by "free" you mean the services you mention operate on non-free software, yes, RMS would indeed give us bat-guano about that, but it's not a 100% requirement. We did use Jira for some services for several years. So the main issue would be how long Abhilash is willing to put up with rms-guano. > I tried out zanata.org but it's extremely slow... > The other option at the time was pootle > (http://pootle.translatehouse.org) which doesn't offer hosting but some > folks at gnu had a customized instance set up, but they discontinued the > service. > I [...] found weblate.org. We (fvo "we" not limited to Simon) should keep an eye on these. However, I don't think translations are a high priority for the developers in general yet. But with Abhilash saying a release of 3.2 in the near future, we should strongly consider making it a priority for 3.3. (IMO YMMV TINLA ;-) Steve

7 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Single-Sign-out for List member

by Mark Sapiro

On 8/13/20 7:45 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > That said, I have some ideas for how to make this safe for corporate > Germany, specifically, keep a database of user-specific OTKs. (These > could be time-limited -- with the server returning a "use a more > recent message's URL message -- or permanent.) For the usera/userb > reasons Mark gives, and the preview-url reason you give, this is > *still* not going to be safe for discussion lists. But if the From: > is <noreply(a)DeutscheKompany.co.de>, so you have to shoulder surf and > have a photographic memory to get the user's unsubscribe URL, it > should be reasonably secure for announce lists and newsletters. I have experience with a one way email newsletter from Constant Contact. These have a link to unsubscribe and also a link to forward the email to someone else. We ultimately added our own ``` If you want to forward this email, please press the Constant Contact "Forward this email" link below. If you use your "forward" button, you might be unsubscribed. ``` note just above those links because people were forwarding the mail and getting unsubscribed when the person they forwarded it to clicked the unsubscribe link. The real pain is once a user is unsubscribed in this way, the mailing manager can't add her back. She has to personally deal with Constant Contact do get them to remove her from their "do not mail this address" list. FWIW, our note seems to help reduce if not eliminate the problem. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Problems with mailman core translation and other details

by celi＠dieese.org.br

Hi. We did a fresh install of the Debian Mailman 3 full package. I'd like all components to be translated into pt_BR. I downloaded the latest updated translations from weblate, which says that 100% of the project (all components) are translated. I checked and recompiled mailman.po with msgfmt without errors. I followed all instructions I saw, included the ones from the topic How to change the language in mailman3 in this list. Everything almost OK, except from the fact that none of mailman's core email messages are being translated, even though mailman.po shows the right messages. Also, strange things happen to these .po files. The web interface is almost perfect, but some messages (just some) are not correct - although the corresponding django.po appears to be OK. It´s the case below: the pair msgid/msgstr seems to be OK, but this particular sentence is not being translated. #: templates/postorius/lists/summary.html:88 #, python-format msgid "" "\n" " To subscribe you can send an email with 'subscribe' in the " "subject to\n" " <a href=\"mailto:%(address)s?subject=Subscribe\">" "%(address)s</a>\n" " or use the form below:\n" " " msgstr "" "\n" " Para se inscrever você pode enviar um e-mail com o assunto " "'subscribe' para\n" " <a href=\"mailto:%(address)s?subject=Subscribe\">" "%(address)s</a>\n" " ou use o formulário abaixo:\n" What am I doing wrong? Or what can I do to make things suitable? Additional info: GNU Mailman 3.3.3 (Tom Sawyer) Python 3.9.2 (default, Feb 28 2021, 17:03:44) [GCC 10.2.1 20210110] Postorius v. 1.3.4 HyperKitty v. 1.3.4 Thanx for any help

1 year, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Can't post to my own list from HyperKitty

by MegaBrutal

Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> ezt írta (időpont: 2025. ápr. 7., H, 2:05): > On 4/6/25 16:00, MegaBrutal via Mailman-users wrote: > > I get a composition dialog and can type my message, but when I click > send, > > I get the error message: „This list is moderated, please subscribe to it > > before posting.”. Upon reply, a red rectangle appears to enclose this > > message. Upon trying to create a new thread, a white page loads which > only > > contains this error message. > > In that composition dialog below the text box, it should say > ``` > This message will be sent as: user(a)example.com Link another address > If you aren't a current list member, sending this message will subscribe > you. > ``` > > No, it doesn't say anything like that. It says if I'm not subscribed, sending the message would subscribe me – no address is shown there at all. > > What do you see in Django's logs when you do this? > >> > > > > I don't know where to look – I don't see anything outstanding, only a few > > HTTP requests appear in mailman.log on mailman side and uwsgi.log on web > > side. None of these indicate any error. > > > If you configured your settings.py per > > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html#initial-configu… > your Django log which is where HyperKitty logs is at > /opt/mailman/web/logs/mailmanweb.log. However, I don't think there will > be anything useful there. Yeah, I checked that, nothing useful.

6 months, 4 weeks

[MM3-users] Correct way to filter auto-replies to list?

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Gary Holman writes: > I have seen a few messages on this list regarding handling 'out of > office' auto-replies. However I do not see a final resolution. This problem is as hard as spam. There won't be a final resolution as long as people use out-of-office auto-replies. They're all different. If you are using a spam filter, I would suggest adding the offender's out of office message (or at least the spike protein :-) to your filter's body text blacklist. > What is the best practice to filter auto-replies to list: header > filter or postfix milter-reject or something else? You write "auto-replies" below. Set the subscriber to no-mail, or unsubscribe them for a second offense. Remind them that we put a huge amount of effort into creating and maintaining Postorius to make that as convenient as possible, and we at Mailman are "shock, SHOCKED, I tell you" that this courtesy was neglected. :-) > We are running dockerized Mailman 3 version 1.3.4. A list user > auto-replied their vacation message to list and then the listserv "listserv" is a trademark. Please don't use it to refer to Mailman. > created a chain-reaction of continuously replying to auto-replies > by that user. What do you mean by "chain reaction"? Other subscribers replying to the "out of office" message, or an auto-reply from the Mailman server? > There isn't really a good header option to filter > from, as the subject seems to be randomized. Vacation programs conforming to https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3834 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5230 should provide some header fields to filter on. HTH, Steve

4 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] dedicated mailman3 list server on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS - questions after installation

by John Seifarth

My goal is to build a stable dedicated list server using mailman3. It should use all current email authentication techniques to clearly show that it is an authentic non-spam mail list server. In the future, I may want to use the REST interface, so that’s why mailman2 is not an option. My installation: Installed Ubuntu 18.04 LTS server, with postfix, mysql and postgres. I then installed mail-stack-delivery, postfix-policyd-spf-python, OpenDKIM, and OpenDMARC. I configured SPF, DKIM, and DMARC records on my DNS server, and then configured postfix and dovecot to DKIM sign outgoing mail from local users, and check SPF, DMARC, and DKIM on incoming mail. I then installed the package mailman3-full, which provides version 3.1.1-9, using postgres 10 as the database. I have looked in Ubuntu bionic-backports and bionic-updates and do not see a more recent version. I see that version 3.2 was released in July, are debian/ubuntu mailman 3.2 packages available somewhere? I set up the /etc/mailman3 files: I added this to the end of mailman.cfg [archiver.hyperkitty] class: mailman_hyperkitty.Archiver enable: yes configuration: /etc/mailman3/mailman-hyperkitty.cfg In mailman-hyperkitty.cfg I copied the api_key: value from mailman-web.py MAILMAN_ARCHIVER_KEY, but removed the single quotes surrounding the value in the mailman-web.py file when writing the key in the mailman-hyperkitty.cfg file. I modified /etc/postfix/main.cf with this appended to the end: # Mailman-postfix integration owner_request_special = no # Support the default VERP delimiter. recipient_delimiter = + unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550 owner_request_special = no transport_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman3/data/postfix_lmtp local_recipient_maps = proxy:unix:passwd.byname, $alias_maps, hash:/var/lib/mailman3/data/postfix_lmtp relay_domains = ${{$compatibility_level} < {2} ? {$mydestination} : {}} hash:/var/lib/mailman3/data/postfix_domains I ran /usr/share/mailman3-web/manage.py createsuperuser I ran a2enmod proxy_uwsgi I made a symbolic link from /etc/mailman3/apache.conf to /etc/apache2/conf-available/mailman3.conf, then ran a2enconf mailman3 I have read the documentation in /usr/share/docs/mailman3* along with what I could find concerning mailman3 on the web. The installation allows me to sign into the web interface, create a host, create mailing lists, and mass subscribe members. When members send email to the list address, the server sends the messages normally to the other members of the list. However, when I look at the list archives, there are no posts. I deliberately mass-subscribed an invalid address, and I can see in /var/log/mail.log that the message bounces, but I get no notification, nor do I see any bounce info when I look at the member info. My questions: 1) logging A lot of my questions would probably be answered if I could figure out hot to activate logging correctly. Currently, I see: root@mailman:/var/log/mailman3# ll -R -rw-rw---- 1 list list 0 Jul 29 20:06 bounce.log -rw-rw---- 1 list list 0 Jul 29 20:06 debug.log -rw-r----- 1 list list 3298 Aug 4 00:00 mailman.log -rw-rw---- 1 list list 34606 Jul 30 17:44 smtp.log drwxr-xr-x 2 www-data www-data 4096 Aug 3 06:25 web/ ./web: -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data www-data 1520 Aug 3 06:25 mailman-web.log The bounce log and debug log are empty. I’ve set propagate: yes in the [logging.debian] section From /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg # In this section, you can define defaults for all loggers, which will be # prefixed by 'mailman.'. Use subsections to override settings for specific # loggers. The names of the available loggers are: # # - archiver -- All archiver output # - bounce -- All bounce processing logs go here # - config -- Configuration issues <…snip…> Can anyone post an example of a ‘subsection’ to set archiver and bounce to debug? Do I have to create /var/log/mailman3/mailman.archiver.log and set ownership to list:list? 2) Where are posts stored? For me, this is the biggest mystery in mailman3. Local mail is delivered to ~/Maildir by dovecot. In the $var_dir hierarchy the directory messages contains just 2 messages dating to my initial tests. Anything I send to a list now, and which seems to be sent properly to the member addresses, I cannot find on the filesystem. Any clues as to what may be going on here? 3) Archival - Hyperkitty How does this work? All the parts seem to be in place, and I can see from ps /usr/bin/python3 /usr/lib/mailman3/bin/runner --runner=archive:0:1 -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg How can I figure out why this is not working? In the web interface, I see that each of my lists has zero posts. But posts mailed to the list address do appear in the list members’ mailboxes! 4) Bounces I’ve deliberately put an erroneous email address as a list member. In postfix’s /var/log/mail.log I see the bounces, but get no notification, and /var/log/mailman3/bounce.log remains empty. 5) DKIM and DMARC I’ve got OpenDKIM running on inet:12345@localhost and OpenDMARC running on net:54321@localhost. How can I get mailman to use these milters and sign messages? How should DMARC munging be configured when signing? 6) Is there an overview of how mailman3 works? Is there documentation which explains the path of an incoming post through the system, including initial reception, list processing, sending to members, processing bounces, and archiving posts? Thanks in advance for help and pointers to any available documentation! John Seifarth Words & Wires SPRL Computer Consulting & Language Services Brussels, Belgium

7 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: Migrating Mailman 3 lists

by Abhilash Raj

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020, at 8:52 AM, Brian Carpenter wrote: > Hello Mailman users, > > I know how to migrate mailman 2 lists to a new mailman 3 server. However > I do not know how to migrate a mailman 3 list from one mailman 3 server > to another one. Are there any instructions or protocol on how to > accomplish this? The Mailman 3 server I want to migrate *from* was setup > using Docker. The Mailman 3 server I want to migrate these lists *to* > was setup using a python virtual environment via pip. If you can backup and migrate the database, that should do all of the Web stuff (except search index & logs) and most of the Core data. You'd need to additionally move the `var/` directory if you want to digests/logs/pending emails. If you don't need any of the digests/logs/pending emails in various queue, you should be able to migrate just by moving the database. There was an issue[1] that was created recently where the digests would fail if the directory structure in the `var/` directory wasn't re-created automatically, so you might have to preserve that data structure. [1]: https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/699 > > -- > Please let me know if you need further assistance. > > Thank you for your business. We appreciate our clients. > Brian Carpenter > EMWD.com > > -- > EMWD's Knowledgebase: > https://clientarea.emwd.com/index.php/knowledgebase > > EMWD's Community Forums > http://discourse.emwd.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

5 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: problems installing mailman3 under gentoo and upgrading mailman2 to mailman3

by John Covici

On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 22:51:46 -0500, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > On 3/13/21 7:08 PM, John Covici wrote: > > On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 16:22:59 -0500, > > Abhilash Raj wrote: > >> > >> My guess is that you updated the database (perhaps, by invoking the mailman > >> command form 3.3.3) and then tried to start 3.3.2. In this case, Mailman comes > >> up and sees a new revision for the database migration added from 3.3.3 but > >> can’t find the same migration in its source (because it is 3.3.2). > > > > That is sort of what happened, except in the opposite direction, it > > was from 3.3.3 to 3.3.2. My question is therefore, do I have to > > update this alembic_version when I upgrade mailman to a newer version? > > That is what I was getting at. > > > Abhilash's conjecture is that the error was due to a Mailman version > accessing a database that had been previously accessed by a newer > version so that the version_num in the alembic_version table didn't > exist in mailman/database/alembic/versions/. This normally would not > occur on an upgrade of Mailman, but if you went from a gentoo Mailman > core to a version obtained by pip, it's possible that the gentoo Mailman > had an alembic version that wasn't known to the pip Mailman even though > the pip Mailman was newer. > OK, thanks. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici wb2una covici(a)ccs.covici.com

4 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: spf/dkim/dmarc

by Andrew Hodgson

Hi Stephen. Based on the conversation we had last week regarding you using Google Workspace as your smarthost, are you sure that it can't do the DKIM signing for you? With my Office365 acting as smarthost (see other post I made today), I had to turn off DKIM signing in my MTA as the Office365 was adding its own DKIM headers. Thanks. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Daniel <swd(a)pobox.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2023 3:05 PM To: Jeremy Stanley <fungi(a)yuggoth.org> Cc: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org Subject: [MM3-users] Re: spf/dkim/dmarc Thanks all! On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 10:03 AM Jeremy Stanley <fungi(a)yuggoth.org> wrote: > On 2023-05-17 09:56:06 -0400 (-0400), Stephen Daniel wrote: > > Duh. I use Postfix running on the same machine as mm3 as my MTA. > [...] > > I don't use Postfix, but I asked a Web search engine (DuckDuckGo) for > "configure dkim signing in postfix" and got many informative hits for > various versions, platforms and distributions. Perhaps if you do that > you'll get similar results and can find instructions which most > closely match your deployment specifics. Best of luck! > -- > Jeremy Stanley > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To > unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > Archived at: > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/me > ssage/B3J7FLZMVKFX35UWJSPQ5Y2MN2F46WND/ > > This message sent to swd(a)pobox.com > _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ Archived at: https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… This message sent to andrew(a)hodgson.io

2 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Mailmanweb RAM Usage

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Odhiambo Washington via Mailman-users writes: > Using the uwsgi.ini from the virtualenv method documentation, > mailmanweb is constantly using 2GB RAM on my server. Do you mean only HyperKitty + Postorius? That seems like a lot. My experience is that even on an insanely heavily loaded server (20k+ lists) the whole suite uses about 2.0G. Since on that server, Mailman core was forking 22 processes at ~83MB each (very little shared, not sure the technical reason for that, maybe the Python heap just can't be shared?), core was taking up about 1.8G. HyperKitty and Postorius took a little more (I don't recall exactly, maybe 250MB?) My more standard setup (that one had like 2 IN queue slices and 8 OUT queue slices) I ran Mailman suite + PostgreSQL (dedicated to Mailman) + Postfix + nginx (also mostly dedicated to Mailman) + Cyrus IMAPd in a nominal 2GB Digital Ocean droplet. It didn't run "comfortably", adding any serious load that chewed up 100s of MB RAM would get things OOM-killed, but 2GB total (including kernel and all) was barely enough for that system in normal situations. > My database (MariaDB) size is 2GB. Do you mean in memory or on disk? Either way that should have ~0 effect on the size of the Mailman core and web processes. > Is this expected? Depends on if you mean exactly what you said ("mailmanweb"). If so, no, I would expect mailmanweb (only) to run in 500MB easily and probably be OK in 250MB. If you mean "when I start Mailman and mailmanweb, memory usage jumps by about 2GB", then yes, that's what I'd expect. -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan

3 weeks, 3 days

[MM3-users] Re: Edit archived email? Is it possible?

by Prasanth Nair

Hi Mark, As you know, we can edit the individual messages using the message_id_hash. Is there any possibility that we can edit the original message which then updates all of the threads it has (for example, if someone already replied to the original message)? Or do we need to edit each message manually? Kind regards, Prasanth On Wed, 29 Sept 2021 at 15:46, Prasanth Nair <prasanth.nair(a)linaro.org> wrote: > Hi Mark, > > Many thanks for your help. I have managed to modify some of the messages > after following your instructions. > > Kind regards, > Prasanth > > On Wed, 29 Sept 2021 at 08:08, Prasanth Nair <prasanth.nair(a)linaro.org> > wrote: > >> Hi Mark, >> >> Thank you for your help. Let me try this. >> >> Kind regards, >> Prasanth >> >> On Tue, 28 Sept 2021 at 18:03, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: >> >>> On 9/28/21 6:02 AM, Prasanth Nair wrote: >>> > Hello, >>> > >>> > Does anyone know how to edit an archived email in Mailman3? It is >>> possible >>> > in Mailman2 ( >>> > >>> https://wiki.list.org/DOC/How%20do%20I%20edit%20the%20archives%20of%20a%20M… >>> ). >>> > Is there any option similar to this in Mailman3? >>> >>> >>> In some sense the process is the same but possibly even simpler in >>> Mailman 3. You need to modify the underlying data which requires >>> appropriate access to the server. >>> >>> In Mailman 3, the data are in the hyperkitty_email table in Mailman's >>> database. You can get the Message-ID hash from the URL to the archived >>> message, e.g. for the message to which I'm replying, the URL is >>> >>> https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… >>> and the hash is 7PVJL23DLSWMXXL44ALQUO6VSYBRZ4OA. Then if you have >>> access, you can do database queries like >>> ``` >>> SELECT subject, content FROM hyperkitty_email WHERE message_id_hash = >>> '7PVJL23DLSWMXXL44ALQUO6VSYBRZ4OA'; >>> ``` >>> and >>> ``` >>> UPDATE hyperkitty_email SET content = '<new content>' WHERE >>> message_id_hash = '7PVJL23DLSWMXXL44ALQUO6VSYBRZ4OA'; >>> UPDATE hyperkitty_email SET subject = '<new subject>' WHERE >>> message_id_hash = '7PVJL23DLSWMXXL44ALQUO6VSYBRZ4OA'; >>> ``` >>> If the message has attachments, they are in the hyperkitty_attachment >>> table and can be referenced by `email_id` which is the corresponding >>> `id` from the hyperkitty_email entry. >>> >>> You can also do similar things via `django-admin shell`. E.g. >>> ``` >>> $ django-admin shell >>> Python ... >>> (InteractiveConsole) >>> >>> from hyperkitty.models.email import Email >>> >>> x = >>> Email.objects.filter(message_id_hash='7PVJL23DLSWMXXL44ALQUO6VSYBRZ4OA') >>> >>> print(x[0].content) >>> ``` >>> but this requires some knowledge of HyperKitty's models and Django's ORM. >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, >>> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org >>> https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ >>> >>

4 years

[MM3-users] Re: Change language to welcome message in mailman3

by Mark Sapiro

On 7/24/20 2:10 PM, Massimo Zappalà wrote: > Hi everyone, > > My Version installed on Debian buster: > mailman3: 3.2.1 > postorius: 1.2.4 > hyperkitty: 1.2.2 > > All interfaces work well in Italian language, but "Welcome message" is in English. First question: Is the Subject: in English or Italian? If the Subject: is in English you need to compile the Italian message catalog as I described in my reply at <https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message…>. Then, as far as the message body is concerned, it is built from a template. At present, in the Mailman source distribution, the only templates that are translated are French and German You will find the complete set of English templates at /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/mailman/templates/en/. You have choices. 1) You can create /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/mailman/templates/it/ and make Italian translations of all the English templates in the it/ directory in files of the same names, and submit a merge request at <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/merge_requests> to merge them into the source distribution. If you are not familiar with software development in general and Mailman development in particular, this is probably beyond what you can do. 2) Find Mailman's var/ directory. This is the directory containing archives/, data/, etc/, lists/, locks/, logs/ and perhaps other sub-directories. You then need to create the full path to var/templates/site/it/ and place Italian translations of some or all the templates there. When doing so, you can add site customizations. 3) You can use Postorius to create templates for individual lists. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: upgrading in FreeBSD 13.1-p7: problem with aiosmtpd and lmtp runner

by Guillermo Hernandez (Oldno7)

El 2/4/23 a las 11:12, Odhiambo Washington escribió: > On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 11:35 AM Guillermo Hernandez (Oldno7) via > Mailman-users<mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> wrote: > >> It seems that FreeBSD is handling IPv6 in a way that other OSs dont. It >> surprise me, because FreeBSD was the first OS where IPv6 was deployed, >> but it is what it is. >> >> Thaks to everybody for your patience, specially Odhiambo and Mark. >> > @Guillermo Hernandez (Oldno7)<guillermo(a)querysoft.es> > > Thanks for the update. However, I don't think I would entirely blame > FreeBSD for this. As Mark pointed out, something did not upgrade completely. I'm NOT blaming any of the parts involved... Sure, most probably is my fault. But the last upgrade shows that the process that fail is involved with mailman upgrade. The last server was working smoothly and it has higher traffic than the first I tried. It cannot be that I missed that something was not working for weeks (since the last upgrade of the OS) > This could be some quirk within your FreeBSD ports and you may need to > ensure everything related to your Python version is updated. It could be... but since a year ago I configured a poudriere repository and Im updating from packages, not from ports. But this do not discards your guess > Why am I saying this? > I am running MM3 in a virtualenv on FreeBSD (13.1-p6) and I did upgrade to > the bleeding-edge MM3 by running all components from git, and I don't have > this problem you had. Not the same version exactly though. But similar enough > Could you possibly fully update your Python libraries by following the > entry dated 20220626 in /usr/ports/UPDATING? Could you run all the steps, > do away with the workaround, and see if that fixes the issue? I switched to python 3.9 in early 2022 (or it could be 2021?), that updating point is not applicable here. All my python apps are 3.9. And therefore it would not explain why a server which was working perfectly before this mailman3 upgrade, was falling in this strange IPv6 problem after. > > PS: I don't even think many people are running MM3 on FreeBSD, leave alone > from the ports. Well... leaving FreeBSD for apparently greener paths in my servers is not something I'm planning to do. They are running some FreeBSD version since 1993... and then, they are working. I'm not running MM3 from the ports, I installed every bit of it from python tools. > I have come to learn that even in Linux, using the distro's > packages is usually problematic. Again, I don't install from any distro package > Running MM3 from virtualenv is quite safe and to be honest, you can migrate > your setup from where it is now to a virtualenv and you will not lose > anything. And I cannot deny it... but I'm already under one layer of virtualization... the mailman servers run in a jail environment. I don't want to add more layers if I can avoid it. Thank you very much for your pointings. Regards > -- ___________________________________________ Mailman's content filtering has removed the following MIME parts from this message. Content-Type: image/png Name: firma-GHP-emails.png Replaced multipart/alternative part with first alternative.

2 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Implementing threading [was: hyperkitty failed to create a thread]

by Stephen J. Turnbull

tlhackque writes: > No. It's not an address. "local part" has to do with an address. in a > Message-ID, It's syntactically a local-part or other stuff. RFC 5322: 4.5.4. Obsolete Identification Fields The obsolete "In-Reply-To:" and "References:" fields differ from the current syntax in that they allow phrase (words or quoted strings) to appear. The obsolete forms of the left and right sides of msg-id allow interspersed CFWS, making them syntactically identical to local-part and domain, respectively. > It's in "id-left", which is a supposed to be something generated by the > host that makes the message unique within the namespace defined by > "id-right". Right, those are the *semantics recommended to implementers*, for the reasons which you summarize accurately. But a validating parser doesn't care about that. > Treat the whole thing as an opaque string. Nothing else is safe. s/else// and I'll agree with you. But safety is not an issue in threading (except for DoS if the procedure might be non-terminating; I suppose you could argue DoS if a user misses out-of-order mail from their boss and gets fired). > Yes, but did you fix the References header to match? Of course I did. That was long before I was a Mailman developer and started reading the RFCs, of course. > My quote was verbatim. 5537 does say you must trim. The point is > that the news rfcs may have introduced References, but they have > different obstacles to reconstructing threading. I don't think that's right, because mail suffers from the same line length restriction, with no exception for References. Mail has strictly more specification bugs. :-( > I haven't looked at that. Given the trimming in 3.4.4 of 5337, I > don't see how this can be produce the whole thread, unless you are > guaranteed to have the complete thread to fill the gaps. It can't because you aren't. But it seems unlikely that anybody is producing msg-ids longer than 74 characters, so 998/(74+1) = 13 is a long enough gap that you probably don't care that they're the same thread. At least not in any forum I participate in! > Plus, you can lose messages for strange reasons: The moderator > deleted one for inappropriate content. A message was copied to the > list and the poster. The response to the list is lost. But a > reply from the poster happens later. So the response in question > is never seen by the server, though the reference is. Life is hard > :-) > Sure, but Jamie's algorithm *will get that right* as long as all messages have a semantically correct In-Reply-To or References, and at least one descendent of the missing message mentions both it and its parent. What remains is a UI question: missing message placeholder, to display or not to display? > Heuristics are fine. Guaranteeing that the resulting algorithm > terminates is important. But real life doesn't get you to "enough > messages" 100% of the time. 100% isn't necessary. If the thread is sufficiently broken that Jamie's msg-id-based procedure doesn't work, his full algorithm falls back to your idea of collecting the singletons by subject and sorting. (He doesn't specify the ordering criteria, rather what objects (= subthreads of the same parent) are to be compared. Your suggestion of date seems most appropriate for the leftovers.) > > > See my other post. The left and right halves can, besides being atoms, > > > be non-folding quotes or literals. So you have to handle that. > > > > Of course, but that's just a SMOP. The harder problem is figuring out > > what to do about non-conforming input. > And, as I've noted: lost input. Lost input does not prevent thread reconstruction as long as (1) all messages have a Message-ID, (2) "enough" messages have a non-empty References containing "enough" msg-ids, (3) those References do not misorder the msg-ids or introduce msg-ids corresponding to messages not in the thread. It should be obvious why I don't want to define "enough" (except in terms like "enough means Jamie's algorithm can reconstruct the thread" ;-), but in particular losing *one* message will certainly not prevent reconstruction. > When they don't, trying to guess at the semantics of an opaque ID will > seem to work for a while. But it amounts to the halting problem. There > are lots of variants of "generate a globally unique ID with an '@' in > the middle". I may have created a new one today :-) The problem I'm trying to address with the "stripping" is incorrect copying of msg-ids by MUAs that try to parse them, as we saw here. Apparently the bug was in Mailman itself, so it's not required (and a bad idea, I guess). > Yes. But if they're well-formed, the <> are there, so stripping them > only saves a couple of bytes. > > If they're not, all bets are off. <two<three(a)example.net> - stripping > the outer <>s doesn't help. > > <"two<three"@example.net> is a valid message-Id, > and distinct from <"twothree"@example.net. Sure. Is it likely? > <twothree(a)example.net> distinct from <"twothree"@example.net>? > (unnecessary quoting, or a distinct message-ID) If you treat it as > opaque, you don't care. Take the whole thing, <@> included, as given > and look for it in the other fields. The most you might do is remove > quotes (and escapes) and use the left and right parts as your key. Which is basically what my stripping and cleaning procedure would do. The question is "does it help or hurt, on net?" If there was a widely distributed MUA out there that doubled the delimiters, it would help. Since it was Mailman doing that and it will be fixed, it's a bad idea. > You could also fingerprint the user agent (e.g. by the order of headers, > format of message-ID), and correct for its bugs. But I'm inclined to > report client bugs and get them fixed. Meantime, their messages are > unthreaded (but not lost). It's just not worth working around other > people's bugs - there are better uses for your time. That's not my experience. See Reply-To munging. Depends on the bug, of course, but all too often people think it's our job to help them deal with bad MUA design. > Yes. A message ID should exist. These days I think all MTAs will assign > one if the client doesn't. > What I tried to say was that there will be times where you can't figure > out where to put a message into the thread graph (or forest). Because it > references message that you can't find, or it doesn't have a references > or reply-to, or those fields are corrupt. None of those prevent you from threading that message. The only reasons you won't be able to thread a message at all are when no other available message references it (eg, if several MUAs in a row supply In-Reply-To but not References, and the middle messages are missing or their identification fields are corrupt), and when there are References that have conflicting opinions on where that message belongs. Of course if a message lacks References and In-Reply-To it will be identified as a thread root (unless some descendent manually corrects References ;-). Even then it could be grafted into the tree more or less correctly using your sort on subject and date procedure. > These are heuristics - you might come up with better ones. Yours are already implemented in Pipermail, I believe, I'm not sure about HyperKitty. I don't think Jamie's algorithm messed with [name] and [serial number] because they weren't common at that time, but he stripped Re: and its nonconforming variants, as well as "Fwd:". > At least with an orphans bucket, you don't end up with "invisible" > messages. Nothing I suggested produces invisible messages, just a different set of orphans or occasionally a misthreaded message that seems to be a duplicate if different msg-ids are munged to the same string. At least not in Jamie's algorithm. I don't know exactly what algorithms are used in Pipermail and HyperKitty. Interesting discussion, but I've reached the point of diminishing returns. I will be checking to see if any of your suggestions are improvements over what HyperKitty currently does, for sure! Steve

6 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: import21: A string literal cannot contain NUL (0x00) characters.

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Henrik Rasmussen writes: > It seems that this issue is still unsolved. Is there any estimated > date for a fix? https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/issues/155 . Problem-oriented executive summary: Why do you think this is a problem that Mailman should solve? What is your desired treatment of this data? tl;dr for Unicode wonks and wonkabees: My personal take is similar to Simon's. Unicode NULs are rather dangerous, because any time you convert to an ASCII-compatible encoding and store it where a C routine can get at it, you risk data corruption when a C string function decides that the NUL is end-of-string, and ignores the tail of the string. To deal with NULs embedded in an array of C chars, you have to forego the whole suite of str*[1], *printf, etc stdlib functions and either (A) dive down to mem* functions, keeping accurate char[] lengths on the side, or (B) create a complete suite of array-handling functions that deal with this for you. I agree with Simon's guess that you probably have corrupted data or metadata that you're passing to HyperKitty. (By "corrupted metadata" I mean that you've got binary data labelled with "text", or that you have text encoded in something like UTF-16 that normally includes 0x00 *bytes* as a component of non-NUL *characters*, but labelled with an ASCII- compatible encoding such as ISO 8859/1. The latter is a common hack to insert binary data, or "any-encoded" text, into text databases.) This is based on the long tradition of avoiding NULs in string data based on both their standard interpretation as ASCII (memory padding which is to be *ignored*[2]) and the danger that they pose to C programs that use the C stdlib to handle "character" data. It's true that both Mailman 3 suite and Django are written in Python, which has implemented NUL-handling strategy (B) for us. However, Mailman suite eventually calls into a few C (or C++) libraries, especially the database backends, as in this issue. We can't do anything about those backends, of course. Filtering the incoming data is something we could do, I guess, but as Simon points out that would be pretty expensive, and filtering erroneous NULs silently would likely result in inserting corrupt data in the databases. If you're really sure that you have valid ASCII (or Unicode) NULs embedded in your text data, you could try configuring an alternative backend (both for Mailman core and for Django) that handles NULs as valid characters. I don't know if there are any, let alone whether we support any, though. Footnotes: [1] Including the strn* functions! They protect against buffer *overruns*, but NUL is still end-of-string. [2] Here's what ECMA-48 "Control Functions for Coded Character Sets", which I believe to be identical to ISO 6429 except that ECMA standards are free to read and ISO charges about $100 for this, says about NUL: 8.3.88 NUL - NULL Notation: (C0) Representation: 00/00 NUL is used for media-fill or time-fill. NUL characters may be inserted into, or removed from, a data stream without affecting the information content of that stream, but such action may affect the information layout and/or the control of equipment. Unicode doesn't say how to interpret NUL at all, but does recommend ISO 6429 as one good way to interpret control characters not otherwise dealt with in Unicode (and it's the only way that Unicode mentions).

7 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman rewrite the Cc header incorrectly

by Mark Sapiro

On 5/14/20 9:24 PM, Alan So wrote: > Just FYI. > > I omitted the "<" and ">" when I replace the real testing address with name(a)example.com. > > It should be, > > CC: "ABC DEF > (XYZ)" <name(a)example.com> Actually, you didn't omit them. It's just the way HyperKitty renders what it thinks is an email address that makes it appear they aren't there. If you download the thread from HyperKitty, you'll see they are there. Anyway I am unable to duplicate your issue with your example data. I sent this raw message ``` To: test(a)example.com From: Mark <mark(a)msapiro.net> Cc: abc def (ghi) <abc(a)example.com> "abc def (ghi)" <def(a)example.com> Subject: test Message-Id: <msgid(a)example.com> Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 09:22:12 -0700 Hi ``` and the message I received from the list included these headers ``` To: test(a)example.com From: Mark <mark(a)msapiro.net> Message-Id: <msgid(a)example.com> Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 09:22:12 -0700 CC: "abc def (ghi)" <abc(a)example.com>, "abc def (ghi)" <def(a)example.com> Subject: [List] test ``` I do observe something similar to what you report that has nothing to do with folding. If I omit the trailing ">" in an address as in ``` From: Mark <mark(a)msapiro.net ``` the address becomes ``` From: "Mark <mark"@msapiro.net ``` So possibly your issue involves missing angle brackets. In order to say more, I'd need to see the actual headers as sent and received or at least an accurate munged representation. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Splitting hosts: mta&core vs postorius

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Ruth Ivimey-Cook writes: > On 6/22/20 6:23 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > By design, Mailman core doesn't need to talk to the Internet or to the > > secure internal network -- Internet functions are delegated to the MTA > > and the webapps, and local configuration is via shell access which in > > principle could be console. > > Sorry, I missed this earlier. I was more or less trying to describe what I thought you were trying to do, and noting that Mailman is designed for it. Thank you for the confirmation. > I am using exim and there is a big benefit when exim can see the > list directory names. Indeed. (I wrote the proof of concept Exim config for Mailman 3 on Debian.) But that's *all* it needs to see. It should be possible to get that information to Exim in some other way, perhaps through a small app that talks to the REST API. If that's generalizable to other MTAs (especially Postfix, but also Sendmail and maybe qmail) it's worth us looking into (and if it's Exim-specific, at this stage I'd say "patches welcome"). This is also the kind of thing that an NFS read-only mount does fine (of course you may not want NFS on a system in the DMZ :-/ ). > However, I find the mailman shell program not very intuitive, and so > would prefer to have the web app for admin purposes. By "local configuration" I mean anything that requires access to the .cfg files or installing code. Anything you can do via Postorius (or soon, via Affinity, hi Brian!) is not local configuration in this sense.

5 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Member Issue Discovered

by Brian Carpenter

On 11/5/20 12:20 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Brian Carpenter writes: > > > I think everyone should care that data should be removed when there is > > an expectation that it is being removed. > > I do care, and I agree that everyone should care. > > The difference is that I also think that everyone should care that > data *should not* be removed when there is an expectation that it > *will be retained*, and, therefore, that the base Mailman we > distribute should at least ask before deleting data as a side effect > of some other action. > > I don't see how I can make it plainer than that, so I'm done here. Well I am having the same difficulty. *With your statement here, let me ask you this:* 1. If someone subscribes to a public list, are they being notified that a user account is being created (by Mailman 3 core) as part of the subscription process? 2. When someone unsubscribes from mailing list, are they being notified that their data is being retained when they unsubscribe (by Mailman 3 core)? 3. When someone subscribes to a public list, are they being made aware that there is no way, for them, the subscriber, to remove their user data *except* if they also register an account through Postorius and then proceeds to delete that account along with them unsubscribing from a list? 4. Am I correct to assume when someone unsubscribes from all lists, AND deletes their Postorius/Django account, that all data on them is being removed? So please understand that questions 1-3 are for a scenario of a subscriber that is only subscribing to a SINGLE list and has not registered with Postorius/Django. Question 4 is dealing with someone who has multiple subscriptions AND is also a registered Postorius/Django user. *This is what I believe are valid reasons for an expectation that data being retained:* 1. A subscriber who is NOT a Postorius/Django user but has multiple subscriptions to various lists on the same Mailman 3 instance subscribes from a single list. They should expect their user data to be retained because they still have active subscriptions to other lists. 2. A subscriber who IS a registered Postorius/Django user is subscribed to a single list and unsubscribes from that single list but did NOT delete their Postorius/Django account. 3. A combination of 1&2. All I am requesting is that for single list subscribers who are not registered users of Postorius/Django, to have their user data totally removed when they unsubscribe. I simply fail to see how someone could claim a right to data retention when they unsubscribe from the one list that they were subscribed to. This is important to me because almost all of the list members of the lists that I host fall into this category: single list member who is not a registered user of Affinity/Postorius. > If you need help implementing the "delete everything" policy in > Affinity because of some insufficiency in the REST API, let me know > and I will make sure the REST API allows you to do that. But I'm > pretty sure it's already possible. It has already been done with Affinity and the REST API was sufficient to allow us to do that. Thanks for offering. > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ -- Brian Carpenter Harmonylists.com Emwd.com

4 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] why am I seeing "Access to the archiving API endpoint was forbidden"

by Dmitry Makovey

Running docker-based MM3 I get quite a few messages in mailmanweb.log: ERROR 2018-01-19 19:09:07,467 401 hyperkitty.views.mailman Access to the archiving API endpoint was forbidden from IP 172.19.199.1, your MAILMAN_ARCHIVER_FROM setting may be misconfigured which points to the docker host making those requests. But I have no scripts/code dunning on host to do that. I've posted to this list earlier (see "mailman-web: ResponseNotReady" and "Getting connection refused on postfix trying to connect to mailman-core:lmtp") my woes with public vs private IPs in my setup and my "hack" was to set up docker-compose with explicit domainname and hostname: mailman-core: domainname: my.com hostname: mailman ... networks: mailman: aliases: - mailman.my.com where mailman.my.com is the public IP of the service. so I think I'm in the weird state where mailman-core container starts off communication on a private docker IP and finishes it off on what it thinks is public someplace... not sure where is that coming from. I ran a cross-ping for all containers to confirm they all see only private IPs and they do: core, web & nginx cross-pinging each-other and mailman.my.com all show private docker IPs so why would any packet be routed from external? can I allow more than a single IP for MAILMAN_ARCHIVER_FROM ? ITMT I've moved MAILMAN_ARCHIVER_FROM to settings_local.py and hardwired it to be 172.199.19.1 and I believe there are no errors in log files... but again - that's a lot of tiptoeing and tapdancing around the IP assignment in docker so I'm looking for input to simplify the setup. -- Sr System and DevOps Engineer SoM IRT

7 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: HyperKitty/Mailman3 issues

by Mark Sapiro

On 11/22/18 2:58 AM, Florian Schulze wrote: > Hi! > > I tried setting up Scheduled Tasks as described in > <http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-web.html#scheduled-tasks-required> > > but the "runjobs" command can't be found. I see the hyperkitty and > mailman commands when using "help". Does "help" show a list under [django_extensions] including runjob and runjobs? Is 'django-extensions' in the list of INSTALLED_APPS in your Django settings? > The "qcluster" service is working. > > Using Django 2.1.1 and HyperKitty 1.2.1. > > Maybe related to that, I have two issues with archives. > > 1. Changing the archiving setting in the Web-UI to something else than > public seems to have no effect. The already archived messages are still > accessible in public. This is related. It is one of the "daily" jobs that updates this. Note that changing to "private" will require login after the "daily" jobs run, but changing to "do not archive" will leave the existing archive accessible. > 2. Related to 1., how can I remove a list archive without affecting > other lists? There's no easy way. For the "prototype" archiver, the archives for a list are in var/archives/prototype/listname(a)example.com/ and that directory can be removed, but that doesn't affect HyperKitty. HyperKitty's archives are in the Mailman database and multiple tables are involved. One could try just removing the row for the list from the hyperkitty_mailinglist table. That may render the list's archive inaccessible via the web UI, but I have no idea what would be broken by doing this. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

6 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Post-installation documentation?

by Mark Sapiro

On 11/25/21 10:56 AM, David Newman wrote: > > Thanks for this. After setting these variables and restarting mailman3 > and mailmanweb, the mailman user still cannot find a hyperkitty_import > command (neither can root, btw). Again, I installed MM3 and > Django/Postorius/Hyperkitty using the venv and web docs previously > referenced. Don't run mailman or django admin commands as root. This causes issues when files are created by root and can't be read by mailman. What django admin command are you running? If you don't set DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE in the environment and you have activated your virtualenv and run `mailman-web` as the django admin command it will set /etc/mailman3/settings.py as the settings. > On the plus side, all lists now appear in the admin web page. However, > lists created from the admin page do not appear in a site list page, > even though all lists are in the same site/domain. By default, only lists that you are owner, moderator or subscriber for are shown. What if you click Filter by Role and select All? > Finally, how to make these exports permanent? I did not see this covered > in the migration doc above. This is on a Debian system where the mailman > user's shell is bash. Is this simply a matter of adding environment > variables in the mailman user's .bashrc file? You can do that but as I note above, if you run `mailman-web` you shouldn't need to. You can add a `source /opt/mailman/venv/bin/activate` command as mentioned at https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html#activate-virtua…. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: mailman3 not working for mailman21 lists

by Diana von Bidder

Hi Stephen On Mon, 2022-08-22 at 23:51 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > blup(a)fortytwo.ch writes: > > Try queue/, especially look for the out[going], pipeline, and shunt > subdirectories. I have several entries in /var/lib/mailman3/queue/shunt/ with Aug 21 timestamps, and several entries in /var/lib/mailman3/queue/shunt/ with current timestamp (i.e. everytime I ls -l there is a new timestamp with the current time). > > > Is the 'outgoing' qrunner still running? (ps ax | grep outgoing) > > > > no > > Sorry, I got that wrong. Mark recommends this: > > ps -fwwA|grep runner=|sed s/.*runner=// > > and gave this as sample output: [..] My output looks exactly the same. > > I have more or less no Python knowledge (i.e. I can read and > > understand Python but can't write it). Could you please give me > > detailed command by command instructions. Thanks. > > I'll take a look at it tomorrow, but I can't promise results until > the weekend if I can't write a script in 30 minutes. Normally Mark > Sapiro would handle this kind of thing, but he's offline for a couple > weeks so you've got me. My knowledge is mostly on the email > protocols side of things (Internet message format, authentication > protocols), not the internal processing. I'll do what I can, but if > I can't do it real quick it's probably going to take me several > hours, which I'm not going to have until the weekend. Having something by the weekend would be perfectly fine. Thanks for your time! Regards Diana

3 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: Huge performance issue: Mailman doesn't (seem to) receive any mails.

by Abhilash Raj

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019, at 8:14 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 9/18/19 3:32 AM, Henrik Rasmussen wrote: > > I am running maxking/mailman-*:0.2 (GNU Mailman 3.2.0 (La Villa Strangiato)). > > > > It looks like Mailman is not receiving (enough) mails, but are keps in the Postfix queue and I can't figure out why. > > > > I get a lot of "mail for [172.19.199.2]:8024 is using up 7841 of 7841 active queue entries" in the postfix container log (more postfix log at the buttom. > > > I know nothing about Docker containers and how they communicate with > each other, but Postfix is trying to deliver mail via lmtp to > [172.19.199.2]:8024. Mailman's lmtp runner should be running and > listening on port 8024. Either that is not the case or that port is not > exposed to Postfix on IP 172.19.199.2. Right, that is what I was wondering, you verify that by using telnet on the specified IP and Port (172.19.199.2:8024). `docker-compose ps` lists all the running containers, do you see all the containers running? You mentioned that Mailman is not receiving enough emails, do you get *any* emails from Mailman? I am trying to see if this is a perf problem or if Mailman's LMTP isn't reachable at all. > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

6 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: How to delete non-users

by Allan Hansen

Hi Mark, Thank you for looking into it. We are very strict about memberships, which we are because of spam, bots and malicious contributors and because we don't want anyone to think that our lists are used for spam: When a user applies, the server sends a message to the moderator. The moderator communicates with the potential member and accepts or does not accept the application. At this point, if the user has not been accepted, but tried to send a message to the list, a non-member membership is created. When he/she logs in to list his/her account, the list to which he/she holds non-memberships will be listed and the user will think that he/she has been properly subscribed (why else are the lists listed). Noone notices the column that shows the role as 'nonmember.' So he/she thinks that the subscription request has been accepted, but nothing is working. That's why the 'non-member' record is an issue. I also don't see why non-members are automatically added, filling up the database with junk (at least from our point of view, with all respect). But our lists don't accept messages from non-members. Such messages are quietly discarded, as most are spam, as mentioned above. So now the user is neither getting emails from the lists nor is unable to send messages to the list. The next step for the user is to complain to me. ☹ I have looked for a template that could be used to warn someone when he/she is added as a non-member, but did not find one. It's also not clear that I'd want one, as most of these non-subscriptions are by spammers and I prefer not to reply to spammers. __ I tried your suggestion below, Mark. Here's my transcript: ********** Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell Use commit() to commit changes. Use abort() to discard changes since the last commit. Exit with ctrl+D does an implicit commit() but exit() does not. >>> lm = getUtility(IListManager) >>> for l in lm: ... for nm in l.nonmembers.members: ... nm.unsubscribe() ... >>> ********** I did this twice, once with commit() and once typing ctrl/d (ctrl/D) just gave me a beep. Calling commit() did not return to the ... as in your example, but showed the >>> prompt, so I tried ctrl/D (beep) and then ctrl/d (exit). I then went to the Postorius page for one of the lists and found that all the non-members were still present. Yours, Allan On 9/16/22, 15:01 , "Mark Sapiro" <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: On 9/16/22 11:19, Allan Hansen wrote: > Hi all, > > This is a bit of an emergency: > > I am getting a bunch of complaints from potential list members of my lists that they can't subscribe and they don't get messages. Apparently, the issue is that they are non-members. I have never created any non-members but looking at the docs it seems that if someone sends a message to the list, they automatically become non-members. > For individuals I have been able to delete their non-membership and they then could subscribe properly. I don't understand. the fact that an address is a non-member of a list should not impact subscribing that address as a member. > I have looked at some of my most popular lists and they have hundreds of non-members! It will take me an awful amount of time to remove each one manually, and not doing it - handling each as they complain - is also a lot of waste of time and cause of frustration for all involved. What is actually happening when the non-member attempts to subscribe as a member? What do they do and what it the result? > I have tried scripting it with delmember, but it does not take the '-r nonmember' option ('findmember' does!). > > Can anyone help me find out how to > a. delete all non-members of all my lists If you have access to `mailman shell` you could do: ``` $ mailman shell Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell Use commit() to commit changes. Use abort() to discard changes since the last commit. Exit with ctrl+D does an implicit commit() but exit() does not. >>> lm = getUtility(IListManager) >>> for l in lm: ... for nm in l.nonmembers.members: ... nm.unsubscribe() ... >>> commit() ``` > b. prevent MM3 from creating new non-members in the future (so I don't have to keep removing them) nonmembers are an integral part of Mailman 3's architecture. The basic idea is a nonmember has a moderation action and setting a nonmembers moderation replaces MM 2.1's adding that address to one of *_these_nonmembers (The legacy *_these_nonmembers attributes still exist, but only to support regexps). It would require extensive modification to not create nonmembers. However, I still don't understand why the presence of a nonmember record is an issue. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/

3 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Invalid confirm text

by Mark Sapiro

On 8/17/20 4:53 AM, w.schoener(a)alp.dillingen.de wrote: > One thing I forgot to mention: > a week ago, the confirmation-mails still worked. > > And now: > All attempts to confirm the subscribe message failed. I used the list-request(a)list.domain and sent text-only message with the "confirm token" in the subject and/or in the body. This should work. What's in your MTA's logs? > So today I tried and used the Mailman shell to change the pending state to "confirmed", as you described here: > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/… > After I submitted the command util.confirm('hex_token') and restarted mailman with > mailman stop > mailman start It isn't necessary to stop/star/ or restart mailman. How did you exit mailman shell. You must exit with ctrl-D or issue commit() or your transactions won't be committed. In particular, if you exit with exit() without first issuing commit(), nothing will be done. > the pending user wasnt confirmed but cleared, as if he never sent a subscribe-message. The only way to subscribe seems to be by logging in and using there the subscribe-form. What is the list's subscription_policy? It seems you successfully confirmed that token, but that may not be the last step if the list's subscription_policy is confirm_then_moderate. > Do you have any idea, whats going wrong here? I dont know what to do any more. Clearly something is broken, but I don't know what unless it is some permissions issue on the template directories/files you created. Have you looked at Mailman's mailman.log? -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: What's the difference between (purpose of) reject and ignore

by Andy Smith

Hello, On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 12:37:05PM -0000, denis.bitouze(a)univ-littoral.fr wrote: > AFAICS, it is not documented since, at Postorius → Settings → Message Acceptance → Default action to take when a (non-)member posts to the list, I only read: “Discard: this simply discards the message, with no notice sent to the post's author”. So no mention that this would set it to (silently) discard all future mails from them. Well that is because that isn't what that part does. As it says, that part is the "Default action to take when a member/non-member posts to the list". So that's where you set what you want to happen when ANY non-member posts. This is what will happen any time any non-member posts. By contrast, when you set an action on a particular held message, it is asking you want you want to do with posts from THAT INDIVIDUAL ADDRESS for the future. So hopefully you can see that these things are different. One is a whole-list property that applies to posts from classes of posters (members, non-members). The other is per-poster property as a reaction to as held message from them. > Just to be sure: for this feature, is it necessary to click on the > subject and to choose in the drop-down list “Discard (no > notification)”, or is it enough, on the .../held_messages page, to > select the messages and click on “Discard”? Doing it from the held messages page will be a one-time thing; it is only by clicking on the individual message that you can choose an action for future messages from that address. Cheers, Andy

3 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Installation Wooes

by Mark Sapiro

On 5/3/20 8:43 PM, Samir Faci wrote: > Inline. > > On Sun, May 3, 2020, 20:32 Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net > <mailto:mark@msapiro.net>> wrote: > > You are sending from a remote machine 198.199.98.177 to a presumably > remote domain domain.com <http://domain.com> so relay access is > denied as it should be. > > You need to add 198.199.98.177 to mynetworks in Postfix. > > > I can but domain.com <http://domain.com> is basically my Gmail I just > regex-ed the logs. If that's the fix is have to add every recepients > domain to mynetworks. You absolutely don't want to do that. The log entry is confusing. Between your munging domains and my MUA adding mailto: links to every email address, it's a mess. Let's try again: May 4 03:07:38 lists postfix/smtpd[1968155]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from unknown[198.199.98.177]: 554 5.7.1 <csgeek(a)domain.com>: Relay access denied; from=<booh-bounces+csgeek=domain.com(a)lists.domain.org> to=<csgeek(a)domain.com> proto=ESMTP helo=<[127.0.1.1]>. This says Postfix received a RCPT command from 98.199.98.177. It looks like it comes from Mailman, i.e., the envelope sender loogs like a Mailman VERPed address <booh-bounces+csgeek=domain.com(a)lists.domain.org> for a message to <csgeek(a)domain.com> and that is the envelope recipient and the sender identified itself in EHLO as [127.0.1.1]. So Postfix thinks it is asked to relay from 98.199.98.177 to domain.com. Note that 98.199.98.177 is a Comcast network IP. It has nothing to do with gmail. So is the connect comes from Mailman on the Postfix machine, why does Postfix think it comes from 98.199.98.177. That's the issue. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: Archives with encoding characters

by Mark Dadgar

I see this a lot too. I cannot confirm 100%, but anecdotally they all seem to be Mac Mail users. - Mark ----- mark(a)pdc-racing.net | 408-348-2878 > On Mar 4, 2020, at 9:56 AM, Seth Seeger <seth(a)tofutavern.com> wrote: > > I should add that they are both on Plain Text Digests. (People seemed to be unhappy with MIME digests, because they had to double click on each email to open it up. You couldn't just scroll through a long email.) > > Seth > > On Wed, Mar 4, 2020, at 4:55 PM, Seth Seeger wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> >> I have a few (but not all) members complaining that their digests are >> full of coded characters. Two examples below were forwarded to me: >> >>> What I ended up doing was creating 2 "practice lines" in the centre of=20 >>> our big teaching circle (I always teach new figures in a big circle) -=20 >>> which each had 3 people set up in a line with generous space between,=20 >>> and first=C2=A0 I walked through one of those lines myself starting first= >>> =20 >> >> and >> >>> Robins pass Right=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Larks Loop L= >>> eft >> >> What is the cause? Is there anything I can do about it? >> >> Thanks, >> Seth > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/

5 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Member Issue Discovered

by Brian Carpenter

On 10/21/20 4:43 AM, Jörg Schulz wrote: > So, the issue seems to be, like in the following scenario > > We imagine a list server for the domains fruiteaters and meateaters. > We have two listadmins, anna (fruit) and carl (meat). They don't share anything. > We have a user who subscribes to fruiteaters and meateaters using his addresshunger(a)eatall.com > > He wants to show up in the fruiteaters list as fullname wormy wonder, but in the meateaters list as fritz the cat. > While he can do so using two different email addresses, he cannot do so using > > wormy wonder<hunger(a)eatall.com> > fritz the cat<hunger(a)eatall.com> > > as from: addresses because all requests will be matched to the one email address. > > Worse, if Carl would be able to change the name to from wormy wonder to fritz the cat, Anna would see that name change and like to change it back because the user she had known, user has been identified as wormy wonder. > > So, if these user properties are stored somewhere not related to the lists, we don't seem to have a chance of display name changes by list admins as long as the data model isn't changed. This doesn't seem to be easy. > > So, only some kind of super-Admin should currently be able to change these display names, and these changes would be visible for all lists, and one email address can only have one display name for all lists. > > Not optimal for some rare conditions - that's the way it seems to be??? You should add that the name can't be changed at all nor ever removed. -- Brian Carpenter Harmonylists.com Emwd.com

5 years

[MM3-users] Re: Bounce handling after upgrade

by Mark Sapiro

On 7/8/20 6:05 AM, David Krantz wrote: > > To my surprise mailman core started by sending tens of mails and > blocking the corresponding users for very old bounces. What is worse > is that this happens every time I start mailman core. Now I have > blocked (almost) all outgoing mail in postfix using a transport map > which discards it but this is a temporary testing measure of course. Sorry about that. Yes this is an issue when first upgrading from a prior version to 3.3.1, there are lots of old unprocessed bounce events which all of a sudden get processed. See below for solutions. > When I deploy this server into production, I do not want these > recipients to be blocked as the old problems have been solved since > very long. My plan is to reload the database from a newer backup > anyway... Would it be enough to empty the bounce table (bounceevent) > or is there anything else driving this behaviour? Or is there a better > way to do this via the mailman shell? For me a "delete from > bounceevent" seems a lot simpler than anything via the shell but there > may be dependencies in the database. You are on the right track. The "delete from bounceevent" is a perfectly acceptable solution. So is "update bounceevent set processed = true". Another way to deal with this is to set [mta] verp_probes: yes in mailman.cfg. This will still send a lot of probe messages which may be undesirable, but if the probes don't bounce, the user's delivery won't be disabled. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: mailman 2.1 or 3.0 (or another MLM)

by Stephen Daniel

Nate -- A few months ago I, a total novice with Mailman, set out to install Mailman3 on a Debian server. I used these instructions: DOC/Howto_Install_Mailman3_On_Debian10 <https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Howto_Install_Mailman3_On_Debian10> It took me several tries, but with some help from people on the list it is now up and running. It was also a *much *bigger investment of my time than I expected. I cannot say I completely understood what I was doing every step of the way, and some of the steps are like: go edit the config file so that it is right, which can be daunting. However, even for someone who's never touched mailman before, it can be done. Best of luck -- Stephen On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 7:19 PM nate <mailman-list(a)linuxpowered.net> wrote: > Hello mailman users out there - > > I have been a casual user of mailman for 21 years now I think it is. > Most of my > lists were super small (my only current lists have no more than 8 > members each), > super low volume. It's "just worked" over the years, no issues. I have > been > using Linux since 1996, not a newbie here. 21 years ago I deployed > mailman as > part of our corporate email and then there were a lot more users. Since > that > time I just use mailman on my personal server. > > I did a apt-get dist-upgrade on my system and was surprised to see > mailman had > vanished. Wasn't expecting that.. not a big deal, or so I thought. > > I am running Devuan 4, which is based on Debian. Investigating further > it seems > Debian at some point dropped Mailman 2.1 and started including Mailman > 3. OK, > not too bad I thought.. > > I was/am prepared to start my mailing lists from scratch again, manually > copy/paste over settings/users/etc. Don't care about archives etc. I > setup mailman > 2.1 on another Devuan 3.x system and copied my mailman configs over to > it, and > can view them fine via the mailman cgi scripts through Apache, I was > planning > on just copy/pasting list settings between the two systems for each > list. > > Roughly 10-15mins into trying to get mailman3 off the ground I just find > myself > overwhelmed. That doesn't happen often. I'm honestly completely shocked > at > how it seems the complexity of the system has increased by orders of > magnitude. > > I have been browsing around > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/pre-installation-guide.html > (and other links on that documentation site) > > But as much information as there is, to me there really isn't any > information > there. If that makes sense. I'm sure it doesn't make sense so let me > give an > example. > > On this page: > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-web.html > > I assume that would lead me to how do I configure the web interface so I > can do stuff with it. > > I setup an admin account, then it goes into scheduled tasks(which appear > to > be handled by the Debian package already but don't know what these tasks > would have to do with a web interface). I tried sending a test email but > that failed, I looked at the setting up email portion but it does not > give any indication where that config would be stored, a recursive grep > on /etc for EMAIL_BACKEND turns up nothing (there is a /etc/mailman3 > directory with some files in there). > > Then it goes into other things like task queues, full text searching, > here I am just looking for info on where this web interface is, where > is the config, what port does it listen on? Is it a cgi like mailman2? > It seems like it could be a standalone service. > > Then it shows a bunch of other settings, not indicating what file these > are stored in(or what directory the file is in), etc etc etc. Debian's > own documentation is severely lacking in this department as well, > normally > I am used to going to /usr/share/doc/<package>/ and there is some useful > stuff. There is stuff for mailman3 but it's minimal at best. > > So I'm thinking mailman3 is not the package for me. I've really > appreciated > mailman 2.1 (and earlier versions) as I said they always just worked, > never > had to think about them. I'm sure a lot of good hard work has been put > into 3, I just don't recall the last time I looked at a project and just > honestly didn't even know where to begin which surprised me so much > given > my 20+ year history of mailman as a user and as an admin. > > Is there some document(s) out there that would be more beneficial to > me in setting up mailman3? I see that mailman 2 looks like it's still > being maintained, I assume mailman3 is the result of python3 code and > mailman2 perhaps uses python 2.7? I am unsure on the ability to run > mailman2 on a modern Debian-based distro since of course Python 2.7 > is pretty obsolete at this point (or maybe Mailman 2.1 doesn't use > python I don't recall). I could try to install the older mailman 2.1 > package on Devuan 4 and see what happens I don't know if it would > be that simple or not. > > Or is there a better MLM for simple use cases? I used Majordomo back in > the 90s and was happy to get onto Mailman from that. Something similar > to > Mailman 2.1 in features/functionality. Worst case I could just use > aliases > in my postfix config at the end of the day that is all that is really > needed, though I do like some level of access control on who can email > the lists(even if nobody outside the list knows the list exists), I've > had some of these lists for 2 decades, old habits die hard right? > > I did some searches for mailing list software on the Debian package > archives and saw a few options, nothing really stood out at me as > something super interesting yet though. > > I don't mean to come across as harsh or complaining or anything I'm > just here in shock kind of. Thinking about what the best solution for > me would be. My mailing lists have been broken for a couple of weeks > but that's really not a big deal. > > thanks > > nate > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ >

3 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: List rename

by Abhilash Raj

On Wed, Sep 25, 2019, at 9:04 AM, Joel Lord wrote: > I'm in an odd situation where I need to rename a bunch of lists. They > were all created on mailman2 originally and migrated to mailman3 (very > successfully, TYVM) but the names were all originally > discuss-<foo>@domain and it's very confusing to be sure you're always > sending to the correct <foo>. We want to completely rename the lists to > <foo>-discuss@domain. > > These lists do not keep archives, so if I have to resort to extracting > the subscriber lists and the configs and building new lists, I'm > completely fine with that. Problem is, I'm really used to MM2 and > config_list and could do this without thinking using those tools... that > I don't have. > > Running MM3 3.2.2 trying to make this happen. Any assistance I could > get will be greatly appreciated. There isn't any way yet that allows renaming a list, not sure how hard would that be to achieve that. In theory, it should be easy since most places should be using list-id (which wouldn't change if you were to rename a list, as the RFC2919 says), but there might be a few places which are still using the posting-address as the identifier and might need change. I wouldn't mind a command or an API to modify the list's posting address. > > THANKS! > > -- > Joel Lord > Web Administrator, Alpha Psi Omega Grand Cast > etc... etc... etc... > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

6 years

[MM3-users] Re: How to turn off Emergency Moderation for imported MM2 lists?

by Mark Sapiro

On 7/28/20 5:40 AM, Brian Carpenter wrote: > Ok, I see the other thread concerning this was deleted, along with my reply. Here it is again. It wasn't deleted. It's on another list - mailman-users(a)python.org. Here's my reply to your post On 7/27/20 7:13 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote: > > This is the client that I asking about in my post. She said what I did, did not work. This is what I did: > > 1. Get into a venv as user mailman > > 2. #mailman shell >>>> from mailman.model.mailinglist import MailingList >>>> mlist = MailingList('listname(a)listdomain.org') >>>> mlist.emergency = False >>>> commit() > ctrl-d (just to be on the safe side) > > Did I not follow your instructions correctly? That should work. I don't know why the result would be any different from what Johanna did. On 7/27/20 8:58 PM, Johanna Amann wrote: > As a small followup for anyone encountering the same problem in the > future - I ended up just changing the value in the database directly. > > So - an “update mailinglist set emergency = FALSE;” (or the equivalent > in the dialect of the database one uses) removes the emergency flag from > all mailing lists. That is another approach which is valid, but why the `mailman shell` method I suggested wouldn't do the same thing, I don't know. Of course, if you're doing multiple lists, this method is easier because just one simple query does them all. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: About to Install MM3 -- Seeking clarification

by Mark Sapiro

On 10/12/22 22:03, Onyeibo Oku wrote: > > Fedora expects mailman files to reside at /usr/lib/mailman. It appears > to ship with a mailman unix user. I adapted to those system defaults. I would suggest you not do that and just install mailman in `/opt/mailman` per https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html. If you don't want to do that, you will have to replace all occurrences of `/opt/mailman` in the doc with `/usr/lib/mailman`. > Now I observe that "su - mailman" gives me the proper prompt but > .bashrc doesn't kick in. I still have to manually change to the > virtual environment despite setting the automatic change in .bashrc. > However, "su mailman" runs .bashrc but the prompt says "bash X.XX $". > Is this normal? Yes. The suggested change to .bashrc assumes you are logging in as the Mailman user, not switching via `su`. You might try `sudo -u mailman bash` or `sudo -u mailman -i` instead of `su`, but I'm sot sure if that will help. > Subsequent parts of the doc show the path "/opt/mailman/mm/var/*" which > should correspond to "/usr/lib/mailman/mm/var/*" on my instance. > However, I don't see any instructions on how to get the "/mm" folder > and the associated sub-folders. I just have "/usr/lib/mailman" I think if you have `var_dir: /usr/lib/mailman/mm/var` in the /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg file you create per https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html#installing-mail…, then starting Mailman core `/usr/lib/mailman/venv/bin/mailman start` will create it. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years

[MM3-users] Re: Strange password problem

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Eggert Ehmke via Mailman-users writes: > my configuration is very much like the one described by Roland. And how much does it cost you? It doesn't sound like you're ready to use the feature at this point, but that often happens when users don't know that there's a feature they could ask for. Is there real risk that domain owners would abuse or mistakenly use site admin privileges on the whole site or on someone else's domains? Are you currently hoping to devolve domain administration to other individuals (now that you know it's probably possible with improvements to Mailman)? Do you have candidates for those domain owners in mind? The problem on our side is that I don't know how this stuff works, and I don't know how much Mark or Abhilash knows or if they have any time to work on it. At least it's not authentication (which is a hairball I have no trouble saying "NO!!" to ;-), but authorization of roles is potentially complex and certainly risky if we get it wrong (eg, in a commercial hosting situation). So I estimate that implementing this is a significant cost for us (unless some volunteer does it, and of course we're pretty sure there will be a GSoC 2024 -- can't promise students will apply for the task, though). I don't say that to discourage you from asking for it; please do ask unless your assessment is that the cost to you of not having the "domain admin" role is negligible. I just want to be transparent about why I'm being nosy about your process, and the kinds of things that go into our decision about what to prioritize. Steve

2 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Postorius Suggestion: Give owner a view of all users of all owned lists

by Andreas Vetter

Stephen, after thinking a lot about it, I came up with this. Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Andreas Vetter writes: > > A list of all addresses subscribed to all lists owned by the logged > > in person. > > This is starting to take a better form. It's still very specialized, > so I'm starting to wonder if trying to add it to Postorius is a great > idea. Of course if people are coming in over the network, you don't > want to reproduce all the authentication and authorization logic > implemented in Django and Postorius. That may as well be done in > Django, and if you're doing Django it may as well be Postorius too. > > But if you're in a single sign-on environment so presence in the > network implies strong authentication, you will get more flexibility > from local scripts using mailmanclient, or if you're confident in > security access to the REST API directly. Just putting that out for > your consideration, since implementing what is taking shape here would > take quite some time as the folks skilled with Postorius are not so > active these days. I agree, this is very special. In our case we will cook it down to a very special solution providing owners with the info they need. Based on that, they can use the unchanged postorius for (un-)subscribing. > > Owner is the primary target group for that. But since it should be > > a tool for managing subscriptions in a simple way, it might also be > > of interest for superusers. For me as a superuser it would make > > life easier. > > [...] > > > Ah, I see the problem and agree: So, the presentation should have a > > sorted and searchable list of addresses and a Button next to each > > address, maybe labeled "Subscriptions". > > Looking at your description above, for superusers that is basically > the Users tab, though. Users are identified by primary address, and > you'd not see alternate addresses in the list. But presumably your > internal users use their @your.org addresses as primary. Can you make > clear what could be more streamlined for your use cases as superuser? > I give one example below, maybe that's what you're mostly interested > in. > > The caveats about access to User objects still apply for owners, so > even if they look the same (which is a good UX idea if owner > functionality is a subset of superuser functionality, also they might > even be able to share the basic page templates), the implementation is > going to be rather different. I suspect you superusers would be quite > frustrated if using the "subscribe all these lists" functionality > meant you couldn't get at the User object without going to a different > page. > > I do see one weird thing: you can't manipulate subscription itself > from the User page as seen by the superuser from that list, only > toggle moderation and delivery mode. I guess that's reasonable for a > lot of use cases, though. I've never wanted to do a subscribe or > unsubscribe from there. I always have a long list of users to > subscribe to specific lists, never a list of lists a specific user > should belong to, We have a list for almost every working group and have scripts reading members from there and putting them together in the higher level lists. People can be in more than one working group list. Users come, stay some years and go, so mass (un-)subscription is used for single addresses usually. But if the owner forgets to delete someone from a list, the person is still in one of the higher "automatic" lists. So an overview would have been nice. The "(un-)subscribe all" buttons are not really needed in our use case. We run about 300 lists. For a superuser this is a lot, given the fact there is no filtering in the table of lists. A owner wants to see in an address view all his lists. A superuser does not, because it would be too much unrelevant information (e.g all 200 research lists, when user is in finance). As a superuser I could need in the users view: - clicking on a list name to manage the list - unsubscribe button > > The presentation given when above "Subscriptions" Button is clicked > > should contain the address as kind of Headline. Then a table of > > all lists of the logged in owner and next to each mailing list an > > indication, if the address is subscribed or not and a Button to > > toggle subscription/unsubscription. May be a single Toggle Button > > or (maybe better) two buttons, a suscribe and a unsubscribe button, > > where one is greyed out. > > This would not work with the current User page as presented to a > superuser, that's true. The current presentation is quite suited to > its purpose, with sections for Addresses, Subscriptions, Ownership, > and Delete User in that order. But especially for superusers, there > are plenty of sites with thousands, even tens of thousands of lists, > and even a paged or scrollable presentation would be awful UI, and the > potential for a disastrous mistake using "do all" is high. I agree. So I think superusers "users view" and owners "addresses view" should be different things. > > In addition my owners would like to have a "unsubscribe from all my > > lists" button. And a "subscribe to all my lists" button. This might > > be visually nicer, when having the two-button approach above. > > I wonder if your owners really want "subscribe all". "Unsubscribe > all" does make sense for separations, of course, and they wouldn't > necessarily be terminations. It would be useful in an internal > transfer where "delete user" is not a solution. But in my experience > specialized channels tend to proliferate but the same people are > likely to be running them as run the department-wide lisst. Yes, "subscribe all" is usually not wanted, I just mentioned it for symmetry. Since we populate higher lists with members from lower lists by script, we would not strictly need "unsubscribe all" as long as the owner knows which lists are populated automatic. We currently hide that info in the short description of the list. Everything very special, I agree. > > In our case we would want to (un-)subscribe the address in a "do > > it, don't ask anyone" fashion, but maybe this is not a good idea in > > general. What do you think? > > I think we would implement it similarly to the mass subscribe for > multiple addresses case, where the list owner can decide how much > bureaucracy to require of the subscriber. You'd want to be careful to > make sure address verification is done at most once (for your use > case, probably not at all). And there would be some things that could > be done to arrange that most lists would have sensible defaults. Yes, this is and was a problem for us. We imported many lists from mailman2. Some settings have to be changed after migration, and a mailman config command to set settings for lists would be great. Or a way to permanently create new list styles. > > Yes, I agree, but policy here is to get rid of subdomains, and that > > falls on our feet now. > > Well, once we figure out how to implement domain ownership, it > wouldn't be hard to adapt that technology to "departments" that are > administratively distinct but share mail and/or web domains. The main > problem would be deciding whether and how to nest them. Superuser > > domain owner > list owner > moderator is pretty obvious, but how > "department owner" would fit in is less so. I already had this wo possibilities here (at different times): In fact a department owner could own several domains. The department research (as opposed to e.g. administration) could contain biology.example.org and physics.example.org) Would it harm to be owner of several domains? Or it could be the other way round (physics.uni.edu has a theory department and an experiment department, each having chairs with the list owners). So there is no single way. Department owner and domain owner seem to be roles on the same level with different funcionality. Superuser has to decide how to use it. -- Mit freundlichen Gruessen, Andreas Vetter

7 months, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Turn off social logins?

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Nick Wynja writes: > INSTALLED_APPS = [a for a in INSTALLED_APPS > if not a.startswith('allauth.socialaccount.providers') > and not a.startswith('django_mailman3.lib.auth.fedora')] > This way if Postorius ever adds any apps you won't need to update > your local settings. Anyone see any downsides to doing it this way? Aside from the circular import issue mentioned by Abhilash 1) AIUI, the OP didn't want to present options to users that they don't need and might confuse/annoy them. This does the wrong thing for the OP if so. 2) Implicitly adding apps in this way increases the attack surface on the system by allowing additional opportunities to access resources.[1] This approach doesn't even necessarily get rid of all social authentication providers: others may be special-cased in the same way as Fedora in the future. Of course, the default configuration in the containers will be good for a very common use case, and sufficiently secure for most instances. But the general rule for Internet-facing applications is "shut off all access by default, and explicitly open up only the channels you need." I'm not saying your "subtract the social authentication applications" has a downside in all cases. Just that some of us prefer to expend the effort to (a) follow that general rule, and (b) advise others of its existence :-). Footnotes: [1] You're right, the admin has to intervene if Mailman adds new "must-install" apps, or Postorius won't run. It's possible we should do something about this, such as dividing the set of apps into those we are sure Mailman needs and and having the user configure only those that provide more or less optional features that users should make their own decisions about.

6 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: [MM3-users]Exim, Mailman3 and missing Message-ID:

by Mark Sapiro

On 7/26/19 11:05 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > The problem is that Mailman's LMTP server rejects malformed mail. I > seem to recall that in Mailman 2, Mailman itself would add a > Message-ID field if one was not present. I don't know how easy it > would be to provide this feature, since we would have to patch the > LMTP server code so the message could make it to Mailman proper > (Mailman 3 imports the LMTP server from the stdlib). It's a simple patch to the lmtp runner (Mailman's LMTP server). There's a closed issue on this at <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues/490> - closed because I convinced the submitter it wasn't the right thing to do. > > My solution for now (apart from telling people not to use old > > broken Outlook!) is to modify the exim mailman3_transport so that > > any message with a missing Message-ID: will have one generated by > > exim before it's passed to LMTP. This reproduces the same behaviour > > exim uses for locally submitted messages. > > I'm not sure it's a good idea to do this (and certainly not by > default). The only times I've seen messages without a Message-ID are > spam messages. I suppose we can add this to the documentation. I added Robert's solution at <https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/mta.html#troubles…> The requirement for a Message-ID: is documented, albeit not very prominently, at <https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/build/lib/mailman/runners/docs/lmt…>. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

6 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Hyperkitty download mbox

by Mark Sapiro

On 4/25/21 2:20 PM, Andrew Hodgson wrote: > Hi, > > Hyperkitty 1.3.4. > > I am trying to download a complete list mbox by going to all threads view and using the download option. I have tried a couple of tools (Gunzip and Winrar) and both are giving me an unexpected end of file when trying to decompress the gz file. > > Here is the list URL I am using: https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/hyperkitty/list/plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamil… Depending in the web server configuration, timeouts can occur when downloading large archive mboxes. instead of downloading the entire mbox with <https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/hyperkitty/list/plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamil…>, do it in pieces by adjusting start and end. e.g. <https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/hyperkitty/list/plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamil…> <https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/hyperkitty/list/plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamil…> <https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/hyperkitty/list/plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamil…> Although, I don't think timing out is the issue, and I'm not sure what is, but I think it has something to do with messages in the archive. If I try to get the 3 pieces as above, the first piece with start=2008-02-19&end=2012-12-31 works but the others don't and even the smaller <https://lists.hodgsonfamily.org/hyperkitty/list/plextalk@lists.hodgsonfamil…> fails the same way. If I try to get 2013 month by month, all work except December which gives me an internal server error. What's the traceback from that error. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: Help with fresh debian install

by Jonas Meurer

Hi Stephen, Stephen J. Turnbull: > > > This is the issue. I don't know how the Debian packages do this, but I > > > recommend having a 'mailman' user that owns everything and running > > > commands as that user. > > > > The Debian package uses user `list` for this. It also provides a command > > `mailman-wrapper` which takes care of running mailman commands as this user. > > > > It would be awesome if the upstream /usr/bin/mailman command could take > > care of this automatically, making the wrapper command obsolete. > > What precisely is "this"? We already have the mailman command; are > you suggesting it should be suid/sgid mailman/list/whatever? That's > pretty obviously a vulnerability. If there are any RCEs *anywhere* on > your host, your Mailman is pwned. If you know your installation is > secure enough or you just don't care, fine, chmod it yourself. > > If not, how do you propose upstream "take care of it?" Good question. Two options come into my mind: * Provide a sudoers include file and make the mailmman command use sudo to run the actual commands as user mailman/list/whatever. * Check if the command is run under expected UID/GID and error out if not. Probably a commandline argument to ignore this check would be required in that case. I don't consider either of those solutions particularly clean. But it's a matter of fact that people will run mailman commands as user root, which results in logfiles, list files, etc. being created with owner root. Which in turn leads to errors since the mailman daemon is unable to further write to those files. Cheers jonas

6 years

[MM3-users] Re: Add rule to auto-discard "AutoReply" messages from list members

by Odhiambo Washington

On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 10:38 PM Thomas Ward via Mailman-users < mailman-users(a)mailman3.org> wrote: > When people are communicating on Mailman3 lists, some set up automatic > responders for out-of-office, etc. and get let through the system to > list recipients. > > Unfortunately, this is bad behavior and appears to not be caught by > default. I'd like to set up some kind of rule globally rather than > per-list that would check if a message is an automatic reply (based on a > set of criteria we've come up with programmatically on our previous > custom implementation of lists) and then default-discard those messages. > > Is there a way with custom rules to implement this? We're looking for > certain strings on the subject line or other headers to determine > "Discard" cases in our custom list implementations, but we are hoping we > can implement this with customized rules in Mailman3 to achieve this > goal. How would we structure that type of rule, and do we check the > message object or the msgdata instead? > How about using the rules inside your MTA to check the subject for the common words used by autoresponders like: Out of Office | Auto-Reply | Autoresponse | Auto Reply And if the subject matches, do NOT pass that to the transport that delivers to MM3 Just an Idea borrowed from the rules we (in the Exim MTA world) use to process Out Of Office responses. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]

1 year, 11 months

[MM3-users] Re: Timeout error on anonymous subscribe

by Gerald Vogt

On 23.10.24 21:35, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 10/22/24 23:07, Gerald Vogt wrote: >> >> For testing I have set >> >> POSTORIUS_TEMPLATE_BASE_URL = 'https://lists.example.org' >> >> to the URL of our main domain, however, if I test an anonymous >> subscribe through the list info page I still get the timeout error > > This will have no effect unless you delete and recreate the template in > Postorius because simple changing the setting won't change the `uri` in > the template table. O.K. Did that. Now the uri in mailman.template is https://lists.example.org/mailman3/api/templates/list/community.lists.examp… However, it doesn't change the timeout issue, except now the error is HTTPSConnectionPool(host='lists.example.org', port=443): Read timed out. (read timeout=5) instead of localhost:8000. >> I can access http://localhost:8000/mailman3/api/templates/list/ >> community.lists.example.com/list:user:action:subscribe with curl and >> immediately get the response. > > Can you do that as the Mailman user?, e.g. > ``` > sudo -u mailman curl http://localhost:8000/mailman3/api/templates/list/ > community.lists.example.com/list:user:action:subscribe > ``` > assuming the Mailman user is `mailman`. I don't quite understand the relevance of the user accessing the localhost tcp port. Any local user can do that. I can access the template content with curl http://localhost:8000/mailman3/api/templates/list/community.lists.example.c… as well as curl http://lists.example.org/mailman3/api/templates/list/community.lists.exampl… as any user on the mailman server. And I can use the latter to access the template from anywhere as it's a public server. In any case, curl immediately returns the content. There is no delay. Thanks, Gerald

1 year

[MM3-users] Re: where to configure max_days_to_hold on MM3 GUI interface?

by Shashikanth Komandoor

Thank you Abilash Raj for your help which made me step ahead. With your help, I have written a for loop as below which makes all the lists on my Mailman 3 box set the configuration of max_days_to_hold as 1 and of course I am successful in setting so. And the for loop is as below: *for listid in `curl -u restadmin:restpass -X GET http://localhost:8001/3.1/lists <http://localhost:8001/3.1/lists> | python -mjson.tool| grep "list_id" | awk -F"\"" '{print $4}'` * *do * * curl -u restadmin:restpass -X PATCH http://localhost:8001/3.1/lists/$listid/config <http://localhost:8001/3.1/lists/$listid/config> -d max_days_to_hold='1'* *done* With the above script I am able to set the value of max_days_to_hold as required but how to check manually and make my held messages discarded automatically which are after the specified period configured for max_days_to_hold. If I am able to do it manually I can be confident to take in to production so that the held messages after a specific period would not be appeared under "held messages" tab. On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 11:14 PM Abhilash Raj <maxking(a)asynchronous.in> wrote: > On Sat, Feb 1, 2020, at 5:27 AM, Shashikanth Komandoor wrote: > > Hello Mark, > > > > Thanks for helping me for moving ahead in my project. > > > > Troubling you again, I would like to put another request at you. > > > > As per your suggestion, I am trying to configure my list > > configuration through REST API for specially the parameter like > > max_days_to_hold as it is not available through interface and I am > > following the official links of mailman 3 i.e > > > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/rest/docs/listconf.html > > > > But I am getting "name is not defined" sort of errors as below: > > > > > > > > > > > > *>>> dump_json('http://localhost:9001/3.0/lists/ > > <http://localhost:9001/3.0/lists/>','ant(a)example.com/config > > <http://ant@example.com/config>',dict(display_name='My > > List'),'PATCH')Traceback (most recent call last): File "<stdin>", line > 1, > > in <module>NameError: name 'dump_json' is not defined>>>* > > > > Actually I am new to REST API but hope this is the only issue > that > > is preventing me to go ahead. > > > > Could you please help me by saying how should I handle this so > that > > I should be able to configure *max_days_to_hold* of a list or multiple ? > > > > > dump_json is basically a Python function which sends the request to the > URL you add as the first parameter (GET, if any data isn't specified and > uses POST if data is specified or explicitly define the PATCH or method > like you have above) and prints the json response. > > You can easily do the same using curl with the right authorization > headers, with something like: > > > $ curl -u restadmin:restpass -X PATCH \ > http://localhost:8001/3.1/lists/somelist.example.com/config -d > display_name='Patched Name' > > > Note that "restadmin:restpass" is the username password that you have set > in your mailman.cfg. > > If you do want to use Python, you can just use a regular PATCH request > using requests or standard library urllib3. > > Finally, dump_json is documented here: > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/documentation.htm… > > > > On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 11:20 PM Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > > > > > On 1/28/20 8:42 PM, Shashikanth Komandoor wrote: > > > > > > > > But I could see that parameter value configurable on MM2 GUI > > > > interface in General Options but I don't see the same on the MM3 GUI > > > > interface. > > > > > > > > > There are many core settings not (yet) exposed in Postorius. > > > max_days_to_hold. is one of them. It can be set via `mailman shell` or > > > via the REST API > > > < > > > > https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/rest/docs/rest.html#re… > > > >. > > > > > > -- > > > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > > > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > > > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > > > > > > > > -- > > Thanks & Regards, > > Shashi Kanth.K > > 9052671936 > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > > > -- > thanks, > Abhilash Raj (maxking) > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- Thanks & Regards, Shashi Kanth.K 9052671936

5 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] mailman 3 adding extraneous /var/ to pid path?

by Andrew Hodder

I'm not sure if this is a bug, or if I've configured something I'm unable to find doing this. But when I'm attempting to stop my mailman3 process, I keep getting an extra /var/ appending into the pid path, so it never finds the PID to terminate. Here are some examples, run at different times, some with different -C configs to launch, all worked successfully to start, this is only a problem on the stop.: (venv3) [root@mailman3(on1) venv3]# mailman stop Shutting down Mailman's master runner PID unreadable in: /opt/mailman/venv3/var/master.pid [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/opt/mailman/venv3/var/master.pid' Is the master even running? (venv3) [root@mailman3(on1) var]# mailman stop Shutting down Mailman's master runner PID unreadable in: /opt/mailman/var/var/master.pid [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/opt/mailman/var/var/master.pid' (venv3) [root@mailman3(on1) var]# mailman stop Shutting down Mailman's master runner PID unreadable in: /opt/mailman/var/etc/var/var/master.pid [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/opt/mailman/var/etc/var/var/master.pid' I keep getting around this by creating symlinks to the pid file and then the stop works, but it's getting silly. It seems like mailman just assumes CWD + /var/ + master.pid must be the location. Once I realized this, I found I can do "mailman stop" so long as I'm only in /opt/mailman/ (since it'd then add /var/master.pid). But that seems a little nonsensical. Going to try my hand at using the environment variables MAILMAN_CONFIG_FILE and MAILMAN_VAR_DIR, maybe that will sort this out. But if anyone can explain further, it'd be appreciated. Sincerely, Andrew Hodder Systems Administrator Support Operations, Afilias E-mail: drew(a)afilias.info Phone: +1 416.673.4164 Fax: +1 416.646.1541

8 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] cron error - /opt/mailman/venv/bin/mailman-web runjobs daily

by Odhiambo Washington

I wonder what this means and whether it's fatal. How do I fix it? ``` ERROR OCCURED IN JOB: sync_mailman (APP: hyperkitty) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django_extensions/management/commands/runjobs.py", line 51, in runjobs job().execute() File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/hyperkitty/jobs/sync_mailman.py", line 36, in execute sync_with_mailman() File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/hyperkitty/lib/mailman.py", line 178, in sync_with_mailman mlist.update_from_mailman() File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/hyperkitty/models/mailinglist.py", line 226, in update_from_mailman self._update_owner_mods_from_mailman(mm_list) File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/hyperkitty/models/mailinglist.py", line 231, in _update_owner_mods_from_mailman user = get_django_user(owner) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django_mailman3/lib/user.py", line 30, in get_django_user email_addr = EmailAddress.objects.get(email=member.address.email) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/db/models/manager.py", line 87, in manager_method return getattr(self.get_queryset(), name)(*args, **kwargs) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.11/site-packages/django/db/models/query.py", line 640, in get raise self.model.MultipleObjectsReturned( *allauth.account.models.EmailAddress.MultipleObjectsReturned: get() returned more than one EmailAddress -- it returned 2!* ``` I suspect it's something to do with my action yesterday while attempting to reply to a thread from HyperKitty. The superuser account uses my address - odhiambo at gmail dot com.I am also the listowner for most lists. I tried unsuccessfully to create an account on Postorious using the same email address. I kept getting sent links to verify the account, over and over. Finally, I was able to verify the account, but cannot login with it. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 In an Internet failure case, the #1 suspect is a constant: DNS. "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]

3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Installing mailman 3

by Rafael Mora

I got this error starting mailman service: [mailman@localhost ~]$ source env2Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/asyncio/base_events.py", line 1043, in create_server sock.bind(sa) OSError: [Errno 99] Cannot assign requested address During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/var/lib/mailman/env/bin/runner", line 11, in <module> sys.exit(main()) File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/bin/runner.py", line 198, in main runner.run() File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/mailman/runners/lmtp.py", line 242, in run self.lmtp.start() File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/aiosmtpd/controller.py", line 55, in start raise self._thread_exception File "/var/lib/mailman/env/lib/python3.6/site-packages/aiosmtpd/controller.py", line 35, in _run ssl=self.ssl_context)) File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/asyncio/base_events.py", line 466, in run_until_complete return future.result() File "/usr/local/lib/python3.6/asyncio/base_events.py", line 1047, in create_server % (sa, err.strerror.lower())) OSError: [Errno 99] error while attempting to bind on address ('192.185.51.89', 8024): cannot assign requested address What do you think? El lun., 24 jul. 2017 a las 17:47, Mark Sapiro (<mark(a)msapiro.net>) escribió: > On 07/24/2017 03:31 PM, Rafael Mora wrote: > > I got this on maillog: > > > > > > > > [root@localhost log]# cat maillog > > > There's nothing in that log that shows any attempts by anything to > connect to Postfix. You have to look at logs from the processes you > think are trying to send mail and see what they're doing. > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- Atentamente / Best Regards Ing. Rafael Mora

8 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] users, users and users (was Re: Re: Cannot request password reset: "The e-mail address is not assigned to any user account")

by IOhannes m zmölnig

On 1/28/22 00:58, dave--- via Mailman-users wrote: > The concept of a Django user sounds like the big thing I was missing now that is something that i wanted to get clarifified in the context of my "getting all registered users" question as well. i'm afraid i still do not fully understand which types of "users" there are. afaics, there are three different types: - django users this is what get's listed under <https://lists.mailman3.org/admin/auth/user/> - mailman accounts this is what is created when you visit <https://lists.mailman3.org/accounts/signup/> - email addresses this is what is created when i subscribe to a list *without* having an account. e.g. via the "Subscribe" button on <https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/> afaiu, (multiple) "email addresses" can be associated with a single "mailman account" (but this is strictly optional). if an "email address" is first used to subscribe to a list without a mailman account, and later a mailman account is created with that very email address, they get automatically associated. a single "email address" cannot be associated with more than one "mailman accounts". i think i got this one right (as it seems pretty straightforward). what i don't fully grasp yet is the relation between "django users" and "mailman accounts". intuitively, i would have thought that they are identical. now mark wrote: > a Django user, which is distinct from a Mailman user. The users you > added via the web API are Mailman users, but in order to access their > lists via the web UI they have to `sign up` to create a Django > account. that seems to indicate, that a "django user" is a (strict) superset of a "mailman account". you (as admin) can create "mailman accounts" via the web API¹, but they are only expanded to "mailman accounts" if you (as user) go through the "Sign Up" process. otoh, if you create an initial "django user" by signing up, you automatically create a "mailman account". so are the two distinct concepts that are just associated via some common property (e.g. the email address), or is there some intrinsic relationship between the two (e.g. parent-child inheritance relationship)? so my recent experiment (comparing the output of <https://lists.example.com/admin/auth/user/> with that of `[u for u in getUtility(IUserManager).users]`) indicates that they are indeed distinct objects that *can* be associated with each other. could you please clarify this? so why am i interested in this? "users" are often associated with some capabilities/powers (which can of course be exploited) it makes me rather uneasy to not understand the core permission model. also (as indicated in my original mail), i'm running mailman3-3.2.1, a rather outdated version, on Debian/buster (an outdated Debian release as well). i would like to upgrade rather sooner than later. otoh, just recently there was a thread on how upgrading a Debian-based mailman3 installation (from buster to bullseye, just like what i plan to do) can go wrong. if things do go wrong, i would rather like to understand where they go wrong, so i'd like to prepare myself :-) fmdsf IOhannes ¹ totally OT, but thanks: finally somebody who calls it "web API" rather than just "API" as if there was no non-RESTful world.

3 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Migrating Mailman 3 lists

by Mark Dadgar

On May 24, 2020, at 7:24 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull <turnbull.stephen.fw(a)u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote: >> Mark Sapiro wrote: >>> On 5/19/20 7:25 PM, Mark Dadgar wrote: > >>>> For reference my pgloader script looks like: >>>> >>>> load database >>>> from sqlite:///var/lib/dbconfig-common/sqlite3/mailman3-web/mailman3web.db >>>> into postgresql://mailman3:XXREDACTEDXX@localhost/mailman >>>> >>>> with include drop, create tables, create indexes, reset sequences, no truncate > >> Have you tried this without indexes and then run the migrate >> script? It may re-create them as part of the schema upgrade >> check. > > That was my immediate guess. I'm not an SQL expert, but I believe > that sequences and indexes are different entities, they're both > optimizations that you don't need (ie, ignoring performance), and > implementations differ on how they're implemented. Eg, if sqlite > implements them as tables, while PostgreSQL has a special data > structure, you could run into this kind of behavior. I'm pretty sure > that these will be recreated appropriate to the new database when the > schema validator is done. > > But don't trust me, and *do* keep a backup. ;-) 😁 I did try it without indexes and it started showing the same warnings. I will give this another try and let it run to completion. I was hesitant to do that because the core database is 7.5 GB and the web database is 35 GB so there are only so many copies I can keep hanging around on the cloud volume. Since the data is mostly text, I am hoping that postgres will compress the bejeesus out of it. - Mark ----- mark(a)pdc-racing.net | 408-348-2878

5 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Apache+mod_wsgi issue

by Mark Sapiro

On 12/22/22 22:26, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > On Fri, Dec 23, 2022 at 9:21 AM Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> And now I am having a problem with mod_wsgi. >> First, the URL displayed when I load the page looks bogus to me. >> While I expect the URL to be >> https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/domains/, mod_wsgi give me >> https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/mailman3/domains/ - there is an >> extra /mailman3! See below: >> So I have; >> 1. https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/mailman3/lists/ - working, >> or appears to. >> 2. https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/mailman3/domains/ - working, >> or appears to. >> 3. https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/mailman3/bans/ - working, or >> appears to >> 4. https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/mailman3/users - working, or >> appears to >> 5. >> https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/mailman3/lists/kictanet.lists.kic… >> - This throws an exception error when I click "Manage Subscription". >> >> -> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/RkKH793Jgw/ messages like these [Fri Dec 23 09:10:55.393386 2022] [wsgi:error] [pid 74857] [remote 197.232.81.246:14181] File "/opt/mailman/mm/venv/lib/python3.9/site-packages/mailmanclient/restbase/connection.py", line 160, in call [Fri Dec 23 09:10:55.393390 2022] [wsgi:error] [pid 74857] [remote 197.232.81.246:14181] raise HTTPError(params.get('url'), response.status_code, [Fri Dec 23 09:10:55.393394 2022] [wsgi:error] [pid 74857] [remote 197.232.81.246:14181] urllib.error.HTTPError: HTTP Error 500: {"title": "500 Internal Server Error"} Indicate an uncaught exception in Mailman core. What's in mailman.log? >> And while I do not quite understand the error itself, there is also one >> particular line that I also saw that has left me baffled: >> [Fri Dec 23 08:53:18.290411 2022] [core:info] [pid 91236] [client >> 197.232.81.246:13865] AH00128: File does not exist: >> /usr/local/www/apache24/data/archives/list/ >> kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke/thread/VIHCC6MSXZSNHY7YPEJ3D2US4N7MHJEC/, >> referer: >> https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/archives/list/kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke This is because something is doing an HTTP GET for `/archives/list/kictanet(a)lists.kictanet.or.ke/thread/VIHCC6MSXZSNHY7YPEJ3D2US4N7MHJEC/` and the URL is not recognized as one handled by mod_wsgi so apache tries to get it from its DocumentRoot. mod_wsgi has to serve a number of URLs. Look in /opt/mailman/mm/urls.py for urlpatterns. You will probably see things like url(r'^accounts/', include('allauth.urls')), # Django admin url(r'^admin/', admin.site.urls), url(r'^mailman3/', include('postorius.urls')), url(r'^archives/', include('hyperkitty.urls')), Those are all things that need to be handled by mod_wsgi In your apache config, you only have a WSGIScriptAlias for /mailman3. Thus paths need to be prefixed with /mailman3 in order to be handled by mod_wsgi. I'm not sure what is doing this prefixing, but without it paths that don't begin with /mailman3 don't work unless you also have things like WSGIScriptAlias /accounts /opt/mailman/mm/wsgi.py WSGIScriptAlias /admin /opt/mailman/mm/wsgi.py WSGIScriptAlias /archives /opt/mailman/mm/wsgi.py in your apache config. > I also need to add the fact that at the point where I am clicking "Manage > Subscription", the URL has changed to > https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/archives/list/kictanet@lists.kict… > (just a single /mailman3). > Something is adding mailman3/ to URLs. In the above the URL should be https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/archives/list/kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.k…, but an extra /mailman3 is added. The others are like https://mm3-lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman3/lists/ and an extra /mailman3 is added. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Implementing threading [was: hyperkitty failed to create a thread]

by tlhackque

On 13-Feb-19 21:42, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > As I wrote in later post, the message-ID syntactically requires the <>. > > (just one set). > > > > msg-id = [CFWS] "<" id-left "@" id-right ">" [CFWS] > > > > Look at that for the full syntax and reference. > > Sure. It's messy because the id-left could be a "local-part", which > could be almost anything if quoted, and the id-right could be a domain > literal, which is a little more restricted. No. It's not an address. "local part" has to do with an address. in a Message-ID, It's in "id-left", which is a supposed to be something generated by the host that makes the message unique within the namespace defined by "id-right". And while the rfc recommends that be a domain name, it needn't be. In fact, as one of the references I used pointed out, not all hosts have them. One could generate a UUID and use that for both id-left and id-right & be conforming (though given some client bugs, I'd change the '-' in the standard UUID presentation to '.', or just delete it.) Or one could generate a UUID for the right part, use it for all messages sent by a client, and use something else for the left - like a hash of the message+headers. I tend to use a domain name for the right part, and UUID for the left. Then I prefix the left with a number when I need a Content-ID for a body part. The UUID pretty much makes the right part unnecessary, but since it's syntactically required, when I have a domain name it can be useful for forensics. When I don't, the UUID is fine. The advantage of using a domain name for id-right is that there is a global registration system (DNS) that makes it unlikely for conflicts to occur. And that was true for RFC733 time, when hosts were king. Modulo all the "example.com". But once PCs came around, it doesn't work as well. DHCP-assigned names, un-named clients just don't provide the same uniqueness as bbn-tenex.com used to. I think the '@' was just syntactic sugar - if you accept a domain name for id-right, then, as in an e-mail address, it indicates the scope of the unique part (id-left). But just because it can look like an e-mail address doesn't mean it is one. Treat the whole thing as an opaque string. Nothing else is safe. > > 2822 does say: > > > > Therefore, trying to form a > > "References:" field for a reply that has multiple parents is > > discouraged and how to do so is not defined in this document. > > > > But programmers are rarely discouraged - with GUIs, it's pretty easy to > > intuit that one might like to check the boxes on several branches of a > > thread and respond "Of course, you're all right - see my cat photo". :-) > > Oh, I've done this by hand! ;-) Yes, but did you fix the References header to match? > > > 5537 tries to make life easier - until you get to: > > 5322 has adopted the 5537 language for the abstract construction of > the field. It doesn't say anything at all about the logical length > issue and trimming. Yes, but you brought up the news RFCs, IIRC in saying that they defined threading. My quote was verbatim. 5537 does say you must trim. The point is that the news rfcs may have introduced References, but they have different obstacles to reconstructing threading. > > The best one can do is to come up with a "good enough" > > approximation in the available time, and tinker with/improve it > > until bored. > > Which is what Jamie Zawinski did. His algorithm (adopted by IMAP as > the standard for threading IMAP servers) has three features (1) it's > an algorithm (guaranteed to terminate on finite input :-), (2) it > allows for various tie-breaking methods, and (3) if you have enough > messages from the thread and all In-Reply-To and References conform to > the 5337 language, it will be consistent with all References data. I haven't looked at that. Given the trimming in 3.4.4 of 5337, I don't see how this can be produce the whole thread, unless you are guaranteed to have the complete thread to fill the gaps. And you're not. (3) is the issue - you need "enough" and in the worst case, you get 3 references (First and last two). Plus, you can lose messages for strange reasons: The moderator deleted one for inappropriate content. A message was copied to the list and the poster. The response to the list is lost. But a reply from the poster happens later. So the response in question is never seen by the server, though the reference is. Life is hard :-) As a practical matter, I don't expect a sane coder to trim unless necessary. So there's a good chance that you can reconstruct a complete thread in real life. But "necessary" when your main disk was an 8" floppy (or paper tape) seemed different from my notebook PC has a couple of TB SSDs. That doesn't mean that the code has changed. Heuristics are fine. Guaranteeing that the resulting algorithm terminates is important. But real life doesn't get you to "enough messages" 100% of the time. > > See my other post. The left and right halves can, besides being atoms, > > be non-folding quotes or literals. So you have to handle that. > > Of course, but that's just a SMOP. The harder problem is figuring out > what to do about non-conforming input. And, as I've noted: lost input. > > > Although it has a defined syntax, the semantics are that message-id is > > an opaque globally-unique identifier. Attempting to parse it as > > anything but '<[^>]+>' is likely to be a mistake. > > That's true in a world where people actually follow the rules. When they don't, trying to guess at the semantics of an opaque ID will seem to work for a while. But it amounts to the halting problem. There are lots of variants of "generate a globally unique ID with an '@' in the middle". I may have created a new one today :-) > > > I doubt 'striping' is worth doing - when an message-id is present, > > I've almost always seen it include the required <>. > > Since the delimiters are constants and required, consistently > stripping them doesn't hurt with a well-formed msg-id (the delimiters > aren't allowed in a msg-id). And you do have to strip the whitespace, > because it's likely that different MUAs will do different things with > it since they edit the old value (space-separated, tab-separated). > The point is to get to the unique content. Yes. But if they're well-formed, the <> are there, so stripping them only saves a couple of bytes. If they're not, all bets are off. <two<three(a)example.net> - stripping the outer <>s doesn't help. <"two<three"@example.net> is a valid message-Id, and distinct from <"twothree"@example.net. And is <twothree(a)example.net> distinct from <"twothree"@example.net>? (unnecessary quoting, or a distinct message-ID) If you treat it as opaque, you don't care. Take the whole thing, <@> included, as given and look for it in the other fields. The most you might do is remove quotes (and escapes) and use the left and right parts as your key. The whitespace is the [CFWS] on either side of the "<" id-left "# id-right " > production in 2822. That's where you must strip it to get the unique ID. > > It's also possible to keep the literal content (after stripping > whitespace) as well as the "cleaned" version, and use whichever one > corresponds to a real message or to a different value of References in > the same thread. It would be amusing if *both* were associated with > real messages, but that seems unlikely. You could also fingerprint the user agent (e.g. by the order of headers, format of message-ID), and correct for its bugs. But I'm inclined to report client bugs and get them fixed. Meantime, their messages are unthreaded (but not lost). It's just not worth working around other people's bugs - there are better uses for your time. Just ask the DNS people. They just had a Flag Day to get rid of years of built-up workarounds in nameservers... > > > Until yesterday's hyperkitty bug, I've never seen <<>>. > > At least one of my correspondents has a client that frequently > creates "addresses" of the form "<a(a)b.net <a(a)b.net>>". I don't recall > seeing "<<...>>" before, but I rarely look at Message-IDs. > > > I've rarely seen the <> missing - but I'd consider that a warning > > that the message format is suspect. As in this case. > > Agreed. > > > My suggestion is that if you can't find a message-ID, > > A Message-ID field, or a valid msg-id in the References or In-Reply-To > fields? I meant the latter. It's the references that you need to reconstruct the thread - to the extent possible. > > > keep the message in an "unthreaded" bucket. If you sort that by > > subject (omitting "[listtag]" and "Re:*" (case insensitive, and in > > multiple languages) then by date, you probably have a useful > > presentation. And a list of MUAs that need bug reports :-) > > The thing is that a message without a Message-ID (which I believe > should not happen in Mailman, Mailman will assign one before > distributing IIRC) is going to end up being a singleton thread. If > there are replies to it, I don't see why they would be likely to be > temporally adjacent. If they have proper replies, they will end up as > proper thread roots, not in the unthreaded bucket. Am I missing > something? Yes. A message ID should exist. These days I think all MTAs will assign one if the client doesn't. What I tried to say was that there will be times where you can't figure out where to put a message into the thread graph (or forest). Because it references message that you can't find, or it doesn't have a references or reply-to, or those fields are corrupt. In those cases, put them in a bucket. Call them orphans. Most conversations come in bursts. And if I reply to you, my reply will (modulo time errors) be later than your post. Further, there's a pretty good chance that my subject will be "Re: yours". So, if that bucket is sorted by subject (primary key) and date (secondary), there's a fair approximation that within the set of orphans, they'll be near each-other. Which is better than nothing. You're right that if my client generates good headers and yours doesn't, yours will be orphaned. But at least all your replies will share a subject, so in that bucket will be your side of the conversation, roughly in order. And if you quote my text when replying, both sides. If several people have clients that orphan their replies, they all will cluster because of the subject. And be in rough time order. You do want to skip any [list] tag and [Re:]* because they don't change the subject. These are heuristics - you might come up with better ones. The idea is that they don't rely on or try to fix any particular fault in the client's posts. Either a message conforms, or it doesn't. If it does, it gets threaded as everyone expects. If it doesn't , it's an orphan, and there's one place to find it. And with a modest effort, this should keep related ones close to each-other. It's better than just keeping the orphans sorted by date - the subject tends to be stable. But it's not perfect. E.g. the not-uncomon 'Re: dogs are better (was cats rule)' won't keep the thread together. But it seems better than nothing, without endless improvement. Once the afflicted users learn that messages they post are put into the Orphans thread, they can complain to their clients' developers. Meantime, life should be tolerable - but annoying enough for them to keep the pressure on for a fix :-) > > If it's an unusable munged reference in References, the munged > reference may be visible as a placeholder (no real message) in a > separate subthread, or pruned (and invisible) because no real message > is indicated by it. The indicated message will be in a separate > subthread if it has a valid References (including no References, in > which case it will be a thread root). And, of course, if it's not the > immediate parent, other messages' References fields will likely allow > the message to be threaded corrects. AFAICS "stripping and cleaning" > an invalid msg-id is highly unlikely to duplicate a valid msg-id > associated with a different message, athough there's a good chance it > won't allow identification of any message at all -- which is where we > started. > > Yes, and that's why I think it's wasted effort. Opaque means "Opaque". If you don't have one that conforms, use something else, and use the imperfections to get the bug(s) fixed. At least with an orphans bucket, you don't end up with "invisible" messages. They're just not where you expected. Like the SPAM folder :-) You know where to look, and you know that anything in there means there's a bug to fix.

6 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Installation Questions [Installation}

by Gerald Vogt

On 04.11.24 09:13, Odhiambo Washington via Mailman-users wrote: > On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 10:34 AM Gerald Vogt <vogt(a)spamcop.net> wrote: >> On your server it looks like this: >> >> # ls -la /etc/mailman3 >> total 28 >> drwxr-xr-x. 2 root mailman 95 Oct 25 08:12 . >> drwxr-xr-x. 99 root root 8192 Oct 29 07:42 .. >> -rw-r--r--. 1 root mailman 266 Oct 25 07:37 gunicorn.conf >> -rw-r-----. 1 root mailman 92 Nov 21 2023 mailman-hyperkitty.cfg >> -rw-r-----. 1 root mailman 797 Sep 9 11:20 mailman.cfg >> -rw-r-----. 1 root mailman 3015 Oct 25 08:12 settings.py >> >> and it works just fine. >> > > True, but making the mailman user own the files makes life easier when you > operate from the virtualenv - > you do not have to exit the virtualenv to edit the files in /etc/mailman3, > and then re-enter the virtualenv. The virtualenv doesn't change the current uid. That doesn't make a difference. > You do not have to give the mailman user sudoer rights. That's the whole > point about the below: > > ``` > sudo mkdir /etc/mailman3 > sudo chown mailman:mailman /etc/mailman3 > sudo chmod 755 /etc/mailman3 > ``` Well, that essentially was my question: why does the mailman user require sudo rights? Why does it need to be able to write or change those files/directories? Except for the convenience which isn't a reason to weaken security. In respect to security, i.e. separation of the service user from write access to it's core configuration files, it should not be done unless absolutely necessary. I haven't seen a reason, yet, and our server runs just fine. That's why I am asking. Thanks, Gerald

1 year

[MM3-users] Re: Deactivate list without deleting it?

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Colin Watson writes: > I possibly should have explained our situation in a little more > detail. Well, I was pretty clear on your requirements, it turns out. I don't, and I believe I'm in agreement with the rest of the team here, need to know why you want something (at least not at this "let's see if we can hash out the requirements and the design a bit" stage). After all, even if we end up WONTFIXing it, it's open source and we're happy to talk about how you might do something even if we won't do it for you! > Postorius wouldn't come into it in our case That's an interesting detail. Thing is, at present Postorius *is* the "control panel" for the whole suite (all the best bands are run by their bassists, you know), so we would bring it up if you left it out. However, if you don't want to use Postorius, I think the mailman-client functionality will make it strightforward to implement your UI within Launchpad, and it now includes a nicer CLI so if you prefer to implement core and Hyperkitty functionality before the Launchpad side, mailman-client will allow you to test core features at that stage. > I'd been thinking more of a new enum in HyperKitty for the visibility > state, since it does seem like quite an archiver-specific thing. Well, there is an enum in core for it already. I'm not sure how that works currently (specifically, how you go about telling Hyperkitty if that changes). Keeping that in sync is an issue (at least for us), since Postorius can query it, IIRC. For the rest, I have nothing to add to what Barry already wrote. Steve

7 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: "Approved:" header from mailman2 times

by Abhilash Raj

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018, at 8:59 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 04/09/2018 03:59 PM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 9, 2018, at 3:00 PM, Dmitry Makovey wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> is there any equivalent to "Approved" header that was present in MM2 in > >> MM3 land? Google is not very helpful in that. > > > > It does exist in Mailman 3 as a carry-over from Mailman 2, but AFAIK it is broken. > > > I don't think it is broken, but it requires setting the > moderator_password attribute for the list which can be set visa REST but > I think not by mailmanclient. > Thanks Mark for clarification. > > > Also, I have been thinking of not having this as a feature in Mailman 3, mostly because of the issue of having shared passwords. No one should be sending out passwords anyway through plain emails anyway. > > > > > Agreed. This is a shared password. and would be sent in plain text as a > header or body line. > > It would be nice though to have some feature to enable, for example, > spoof proof posting to a one-way (announce only) list. > > One thought on how to do this would be to have a list attribute that > says posts from 'authenticated' owners and moderators can be auto > approved and authentication could be by PGP signing the post. This would > require Mailman to have the ability to verify a PGP signature from an > owner or moderator which is not currently the case. +1 on using PGP signatures for doing this and that is exactly what I was thinking :) -- Abhilash Raj maxking(a)asynchronous.in

7 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman automatic accept notification

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Tambet Paide via Mailman-users writes: > The problem is that I will get always message that mail has been > delivered and also not delivered when somebody send mail to the > list and also every other user in the list, but the only one who > not get those messages is the sender. This means that the sender is either not on the list or has delivery disabled. It is unrelated to the problem of bounce messages going to the subscribers. > Would like to make it so that only the sender will get those > messages not everybody else Normally the sender does not know about the subscribers in detail, so we try to make the default configuration that a delivery failure notice (bounce message) goes to the list owner, who is the only person who can do anything about it. As far as I know, there is no way to configure bounce messages to go to the original sender. That is normally a very bad idea, because the original sender cannot do anything about mailing list bounces, unless they happen to be the list owner anyway. On the other hand, the list owner has need to know because if anybody can fix the problem, they can. If you have a reason why the original sender should get these messages (that is some action they should take to fix the situation), let us know, and we'll try to figure something out. But I can't think of one myself. > Example what every user will get but not the sender: > > Mail DeliverySystem<MAILER-DAEMON@LOCALHOST> > Sent on:Wednesday,November18, 2020 6:58:30PM > To: list.<domain> oneofexamplelist<oneofexamplelist(a)lists.domain.XX> > > Subject: Undeliverable: mail-subject 17.11.2020 > Attachments: one-attachment 17.11.2020.msg(38.5 KB) > > Delivery to these recipients or groups failed: > > oneofexamplelist(a)lists.domain.XX This is not an "uncaught bounce" message from Mailman. This is a normal delivery status notification from the mail daemon on your system, that happens to have been sent to the list. Assuming both instances of "oneofexamplelist(a)lists.domain.XX" refer to the same address, it looks to me like you have the mailing list configured as the list owner address. That will cause you a lot of pain. Change that to the personal address of the list owner. If that is not the case, perhaps the list is anonymized so that the author appears to be the list. In email, the author (the person and email in From:) is separate from the sender (which usually does not appear in the header that recipients see). It is the sender which should receive bounce messages. By default Mailman is configured to direct bounce messages to a special address like oneofexamplelist-bounces(a)lists.domain.XX. Either that configuration has been changed, or your mail daemon is sending errors to author, not to sender. > The recipient's e-mail system is currently busy and cannot receive > messages. Please try sending the message again later. The > following authority rejected your message I do not understand the part about "system busy" above. Obviously the list is working because your subscribers are getting the annoying bounce message. The only thing I can think of is that some kind of mail loop is occurring, but Mailman should be rejecting it with an explanation that a mail loop is occurring and a permanent failure. (I say "should" because that's how I would design it, but I don't know that part of the code, and don't have time to find it today. Sorry.) > mailman.xxxx.XX Is xxxx.XX the same as domain.XX? Steve

4 years, 11 months

[MM3-users] mailman 2.1 or 3.0 (or another MLM)

by nate

Hello mailman users out there - I have been a casual user of mailman for 21 years now I think it is. Most of my lists were super small (my only current lists have no more than 8 members each), super low volume. It's "just worked" over the years, no issues. I have been using Linux since 1996, not a newbie here. 21 years ago I deployed mailman as part of our corporate email and then there were a lot more users. Since that time I just use mailman on my personal server. I did a apt-get dist-upgrade on my system and was surprised to see mailman had vanished. Wasn't expecting that.. not a big deal, or so I thought. I am running Devuan 4, which is based on Debian. Investigating further it seems Debian at some point dropped Mailman 2.1 and started including Mailman 3. OK, not too bad I thought.. I was/am prepared to start my mailing lists from scratch again, manually copy/paste over settings/users/etc. Don't care about archives etc. I setup mailman 2.1 on another Devuan 3.x system and copied my mailman configs over to it, and can view them fine via the mailman cgi scripts through Apache, I was planning on just copy/pasting list settings between the two systems for each list. Roughly 10-15mins into trying to get mailman3 off the ground I just find myself overwhelmed. That doesn't happen often. I'm honestly completely shocked at how it seems the complexity of the system has increased by orders of magnitude. I have been browsing around https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/pre-installation-guide.html (and other links on that documentation site) But as much information as there is, to me there really isn't any information there. If that makes sense. I'm sure it doesn't make sense so let me give an example. On this page: https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-web.html I assume that would lead me to how do I configure the web interface so I can do stuff with it. I setup an admin account, then it goes into scheduled tasks(which appear to be handled by the Debian package already but don't know what these tasks would have to do with a web interface). I tried sending a test email but that failed, I looked at the setting up email portion but it does not give any indication where that config would be stored, a recursive grep on /etc for EMAIL_BACKEND turns up nothing (there is a /etc/mailman3 directory with some files in there). Then it goes into other things like task queues, full text searching, here I am just looking for info on where this web interface is, where is the config, what port does it listen on? Is it a cgi like mailman2? It seems like it could be a standalone service. Then it shows a bunch of other settings, not indicating what file these are stored in(or what directory the file is in), etc etc etc. Debian's own documentation is severely lacking in this department as well, normally I am used to going to /usr/share/doc/<package>/ and there is some useful stuff. There is stuff for mailman3 but it's minimal at best. So I'm thinking mailman3 is not the package for me. I've really appreciated mailman 2.1 (and earlier versions) as I said they always just worked, never had to think about them. I'm sure a lot of good hard work has been put into 3, I just don't recall the last time I looked at a project and just honestly didn't even know where to begin which surprised me so much given my 20+ year history of mailman as a user and as an admin. Is there some document(s) out there that would be more beneficial to me in setting up mailman3? I see that mailman 2 looks like it's still being maintained, I assume mailman3 is the result of python3 code and mailman2 perhaps uses python 2.7? I am unsure on the ability to run mailman2 on a modern Debian-based distro since of course Python 2.7 is pretty obsolete at this point (or maybe Mailman 2.1 doesn't use python I don't recall). I could try to install the older mailman 2.1 package on Devuan 4 and see what happens I don't know if it would be that simple or not. Or is there a better MLM for simple use cases? I used Majordomo back in the 90s and was happy to get onto Mailman from that. Something similar to Mailman 2.1 in features/functionality. Worst case I could just use aliases in my postfix config at the end of the day that is all that is really needed, though I do like some level of access control on who can email the lists(even if nobody outside the list knows the list exists), I've had some of these lists for 2 decades, old habits die hard right? I did some searches for mailing list software on the Debian package archives and saw a few options, nothing really stood out at me as something super interesting yet though. I don't mean to come across as harsh or complaining or anything I'm just here in shock kind of. Thinking about what the best solution for me would be. My mailing lists have been broken for a couple of weeks but that's really not a big deal. thanks nate

3 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Unknown attribute: max_message_size

by Alexander Klotz

Hi, just encountering the same problem in postorious, how are the chances of a fix being released soon? Otherwise, we will try the workaround mentioned here: https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/commit/f86ab7fb5cc6edeb23c43336b677c24… Regards, Alex Am 06.12.17 um 20:03 schrieb Abhilash Raj: > > > On Wed, Dec 6, 2017, at 08:25 AM, Simon Hanna wrote: >> On 12/06/2017 11:40 AM, Thor Atle Rustad wrote: >>> If I make changes here: >>> https://example.com/postorius/lists/test2.example.com/settings/message_acce…, >>> I get a warning that the Maximum Message Size field at the bottom is >>> mandatory. However, if I put a number in that field and save, I get >>> "Unknown attribute: max_message_size". That makes sense, since Mark states >>> in >>> https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… >>> that max_messages_size is not exposed in REST. >> It is. https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/merge_requests/329 > > I have added a backport-candidate tag to the MR and will get it out in > 3.1.2 release, if that happens. > >> >>> >>> What to do? > > I understand that it might not be the best answer, but `rolling` tags > for images do have this problem fixed, they are based on Git-heads. > >>> >>> I have Maxking mailman-docker but can easily copy files into the image if >>> necessary. >> Are you sure you have up to date images? >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailman-users mailing list >> mailman-users(a)mailman3.org >> https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Alexander Klotz (redaktion kulturserver) mailto:alexk@kulturserver.de Stiftung kulturserver.de gGmbH Lothringerstraße 23 D-52062 Aachen http://ggmbh.kulturserver.de Geschäftsführer: Wolfgang Knauff Amtsgericht Aachen* *Handelsregister-Nr.:B 10515 Umsatzsteuer-Identifikations-Nr.:DE DE 230868040

7 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: Finding a user to delete them

by Abhilash Raj

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Quanah Gibson-Mount wrote: > Due to a bug in mailman3, I have an incorrect user that's been created via > github auth that has no confirmed email address yet. > > I've been poking around the user manager documentation (why is there no > UI > for user management???), and after adding in bits that are missing from > the > official documentation > (<https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/model/docs/usermanager…> > is missing "from mailman.testing.documentation import dump_list" > despite > using dump_list repeatedly in its examples) I can't find the user. dump_json is a documentation helper method which doesn't do much except calling the URL and dumping the returned json in a pretty-printed fashion. https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/documentation.html All the documentation helpers are defined here. > > I have the confirmation email mailman3 sent out, that tells me the username > mailman3 created for the incorrect account is "quanah98", but the user > manager documentation doesn't detail how to find a user by their username, > only their email. And apparently if the email hasn't been confirmed (and I > *do not* want it confirmed), you can't find them by email. > > Suggestions on how to track down this user so I can delete them would be > much appreciated. > > Thanks, > Quanah > > -- > > Quanah Gibson-Mount > Product Architect > Symas Corporation > Packaged, certified, and supported LDAP solutions powered by OpenLDAP: > <http://www.symas.com> > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

5 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: How to limit numbers of outgoing emails per connection

by Odhiambo Washington

On Mon, Feb 10, 2025 at 3:57 PM Alain D D Williams <addw(a)phcomp.co.uk> wrote: > Exim tells me "no immediate delivery: more than 30 messages received in > one connection" > > The emails then sit in the exim queue until a queue runner kicks in - which > happens once every 30 minutes. The result is considerable delays which > makes > list email conversations bouncy. > > Question: how do I tell MM3 to send no more than 30 emails in one > connection to > exim (via SMTP to localhost port 25) ? > > If that is not possible, how do I find the number that MM3 batches outgoing > emails so that I can configure exim to match (as I did with MM2) ? > > I see documentation pages like the following. They are useless to me, > incomprehensible without a lot of learning. I program in several languages > but > only a little Python. What I am looking for is a setting in a config file. > > > https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/runners/do… My biggest MM3 list has 1289 members. I have these global settings on exim config: # exim4u: Values to modify to fix "Connection Refused: Too Many Connections" smtp_accept_max = 400 smtp_accept_max_per_host = 20 smtp_accept_queue_per_connection = 0 Exim has never chocked on any post to this ML. As Jared has explained, which I think is a better approach if you have big lists, you can control the settings from mailman.cfg. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 In an Internet failure case, the #1 suspect is a constant: DNS. "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]

8 months, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Caching problem with templates

by Mark

On Thu, 2025-06-26 at 18:36 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > You can delete the cached entry from the database via `mailman shell > as in > >>> cm = getUtility(ICacheManager) > >>> uri = 'the_uri_from_the_template_table' > >>> cm.get(uri, expunge=True) > >>> commit() > ``` > > You can also delete the entry from the file_cache table, but if you > do > that, the actual file containing the cached data will remain. To > remove > it, > > Rather than doing any of the above, if you want to manipulate the > database, just set the expires_on column in the file_cache table > entry > to a date in the past. > Hi Mark, Thank you for this information. I've given the options a good workout over the last couple of days and found that: 1. Deleting the cache via the mailman shell does the job, but is beyond me to script. There are numerous lists and list owners updating their templates. 2. Changing the expires_on date (to a date in the past) in the file_cache table didn't prevent the cached entry from being used; 3. What did work was removing the records in the file_cache table PLUS removing the corresponding files in var/cache/*/*/* -- for example: /opt/mailman/mm/var/cache/3a/2f/* This I was able to script in bash and cron to run every minute. A hack I know, but it's working for now. I've attached the script in case it's of use to anyone else. (mailman_clear_template_cache.txt) Note: change <USER> in the script to what suits. Does Mailman really need to cache the templates? It seems to be an unnecessary complication. Anyways it happy days again. Thank you again, very much. Your guidance was appreciated immensely as always. Best, Mark

4 months, 1 week

[MM3-users] Re: update problems in virtualenv

by Mark Sapiro

On 11/4/25 11:47, Christian H. Kuhn via Mailman-users wrote: > Hi all, > > i followed https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html > and ran in different problems. Here's the first. > > All mailman-web runjobs report: > > System check identified some issues: > > WARNINGS: > ?: settings.ACCOUNT_AUTHENTICATION_METHOD is deprecated, use: > settings.ACCOUNT_LOGIN_METHODS = {'username', 'email'} > ?: settings.ACCOUNT_EMAIL_REQUIRED is deprecated, use: > settings.ACCOUNT_SIGNUP_FIELDS = ['email*', 'username*', 'password1*', > 'password2*'] This is https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-web/-/issues/37 fixed for the next release. There are two ways to fix this. You can upgrade mailman-web in your venv by activating the venv and doing pip install --upgrade git+https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-web Or you can add the following to your settings.py after the imports from mailman_web.settings.base and mailman_web.settings.mailman ``` del ACCOUNT_EMAIL_REQUIRED del ACCOUNT_AUTHENTICATION_METHOD ACCOUNT_SIGNUP_FIELDS = ['username*', 'email*', 'password1*', 'password2*'] ACCOUNT_LOGIN_METHODS = {'email', 'username'} ``` > (venv) mailman@bywater:~/mm/var/data$ pip install --upgrade mailman==3.3.10 > Collecting mailman==3.3.10 ... > INFO: pip is looking at multiple versions of mailman to determine which > version is compatible with other requirements. This could take a while. > ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement nntplib; > python_version >= "3.13" (from mailman) (from versions: none) > ERROR: No matching distribution found for nntplib; python_version >= "3.13" > > standard-nntplib 3.13.0 is installed. This is an issue with Mailman 3.3.10 and Python >= 3.13 fixed by https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/merge_requests/1348 Here again if you want to upgrade Mailman core you can do pip install --upgrade git+https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman to get the latest from gitlab. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

12 hours, 13 minutes

[MM3-users] Re: converting bulk accept_these_nonmembers in migration from mailman 2 to 3

by Mark Sapiro

On 2/12/22 08:19, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > Dear Mark, thanks for your interest. > > On Fri, 11 Feb 2022, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> This may actually be a bug. I'll have to think about that. I've filed >> https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/978 on this. > >> This is https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/794 (still open) > > Given the time needed to solve the issues (I will anyhow notify the site > administrators, hopting they would update mailman when/if resolved), > this means we have to find a workaround. https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/978 has been fixed. You can apply the fix to mailman/rules/moderation.py from https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/merge_requests/961/diffs > not sure what you mean by "defer". The non-member options I see are called > > List default -- follow the list's default member action. > Hold -- This holds the message for approval by the list moderators. > Reject -- this automatically rejects the message by sending a bounce > notice to the post's author. The text of the bounce notice can be > configured by you. > Discard -- this simply discards the message, with no notice sent to the > post's author. > Accept -- accepts any postings without any further checks. > Default Processing -- run additional checks and accept the message. `defer` is what's called `Default Processing` in the above list. > But if hold_these_nonmembers takes priority this will be uselesws in the > current setting. True, but if you apply the fix for https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/978, hold_these_nonmembers won't take priority. > I go to the non-member list, select non-member options and at the bottom > see an item Administration options Moderation. The possible values are > those I pasted above. > > The actual value for most of the imported non-members is "Default > processing" while it is "List default" for thoase automatically added > afresh, It is "Discard" for a number of imported non-members with > spam-looking addresses (I guess they were in some other *_not_members > part of the standard 2.1 antispam ... I can't recall me doing something > on those) That all seems exactly what it should be. > Side question: is there a way to operate IN BULK on non-members ? Like > it is for members (I exported them to CSV). No. Postorius doesn't currently support a CSV export for nonmembers as it does for members, but you could do the equivalent in `mailman shell` ``` $ mailman shell -l list.example.com Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell Use commit() to commit changes. Use abort() to discard changes since the last commit. Exit with ctrl+D does an implicit commit() but exit() does not. The variable 'm' is the list.example.com mailing list >>> for nonmemb in m.nonmembers.members: ... print(nonmemb.address.email) ... ``` > I am not so concerned of these 189 (or better of the 189 minus the > discard ones which should stay) ... anyhow moving them back will be > uncomfortable if there is not a bulk operation tool. > > I am more concerned of the new cases automatically added. Apply the patch. ... > (*) by the way do you confirm that if one is subscribed to a list with > an address (be it bulk subscription, import or new fast subscription), > this person CANNOT change their settings (or address) unless one does a > "sign in" to a (Postorius) account ? That is correct. User's can add multiple addresses to their identity, change addresses and change other settings, but currently that has to be done via Postorius or another web UI that communicates with Mailman Core's REST API. ...>> Addresses still work, and accept_these_nonmembers takes precedence >> over hold_these_nonmembers just as in MM 2.1. > > This was not my impression when I ran a thorough test of 12 cases. > Except the obvious case of the subscriber posting from the subscription > address, all messages went on hold. If a nonmember address is in accept_these_nonmembers, a post from that address should be accepted regardless of hold_these_nonmembers. > Whatever the non-member moderation would be (even if set to reject ! ... > but that makes sense if *_these_nonmembers prevail on non-member > options), and even if the address was set explicitly in > accept_these_nonmembers (should I delete it from the non-member list ?) You can leave it as a nonmember. > What is the actual order (or flow chart) of choices ? Without the fix for https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/978 the order is - Is the sender a member? If so, apply the member's moderation action or list default. - The sender is a nonmember, if the address matches one of (accept|hold|reject|discard)_these_nonmembers (checked in that order), apply that action. - If no match above, apply the nonmember's moderation action - will be `List Default` for new nonmembers. With the fix for https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/978 the order is - Is the sender a member? If so, apply the member's moderation action or list default. - The sender is a nonmember, if the nonmember's moderation action is other than List Default, apply that action. - If not, if the address matches one of (accept|hold|reject|discard)_these_nonmembers (checked in that order), apply that action. - If none of the above, apply the list's default nonmember action. > *_these_nonmembers in the order listed in the page (within each in the > order of occurrence of regexp's) then non-member options ? That's the way it works without the fix except the order of regexps/addresses in a *_these_nonmembers list is immaterial. if the address matches any one of them, that action applies. > If I have Name.Surname(a)inaf.it in accept_these_nonmembers, then > hold_these_nonmembers set to > > ^.+@.+\.it > ^.+@.+\.tng\.iac\.es > > what do you foresee ? Assuming Name.Surname(a)inaf.it is not a member, a post from Name.Surname(a)inaf.it will not be held for nonmember moderation. > And for different regexps, will processing terminate at the first > non-matching one, will they be ANDed or ORed, or what ? They will all be checked until one matches or none do., I.e., effectively ORed. > I am reluctant to accept inconditionally ^.+\..+(a)inaf\.it (they may be > falsified, only the check on their presence in the other list (issue 794) > > I guess I should remove the ^.+@.+\.it regexp AND AT THE SAME TIME > change the Default action to take when a non-member posts to the list to > Hold instead of Discard. > > This way we'll have to check spam (instead of having it auto-discarded), > but if people with alternate addresses post, once they are entered in > the Non-member list they can be authorized to pass for the future ... > > .. would it work ? I think that would work, but if you just apply the patch from https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/merge_requests/961/diffs, it will work the way it did in MM 2.1 honoring a nonmember's explicit moderation action before checking *_these_nonmembers. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: importlib_resources issue?

by Dave McGuire

On 8/14/23 15:29, Dave McGuire wrote: > Hi folks, I'm trying to test a fresh venv-based install from this > procedure: > > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html > > Platform is SmartOS (Solaris 11) with Python 3.10. The installation > goes fine, but initial startup bombs with: > > ImportError: cannot import name 'path' from 'importlib_resources' > (/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.10/site-packages/importlib_resources/__init__.py) > > I assume this is related to importlib_resources moving into stdlib at > some point. Is there a reasonable way around this? [yeah, yeah, I know, replying to my own mail] I've worked out how to get past this. There may be a better way (I'd appreciate the info if so), but I found this: https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/1093 ...and noted Mark's patch at the bottom. Of course that meant downloading the tarball, when I had wanted to do a nice clean install via pip. So, I downloaded the 3.3.8 tarball, extracted it, edited that line in setup.py, tarred it back up again, and did "pip install <tarball>" after installing the other dependencies (wheel and pymysql). A bunch of other stuff blew up...it required the cryptography module, which in turn requires rust, which in turn requires a lot of swap. Oh, and pkg-config. I dealt with all of that, and mailman-core starts up, after complaining about not being able to find postmap. That program lives in /opt/local/sbin under SmartOS, so I've got to find out where to fix the paths, but first I'll see if I can get the front end built. (Remember, this is all a test; if I can get everything working smoothly and replicably I'll do it on the real server.) On to the front-end.. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

2 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman installation results in KeyError: 'env_py'

by Abhilash Raj

On Sun, Oct 22, 2017, at 01:28 PM, Marvin Gülker wrote: > Hi, > > Am 22. October 2017 um 11:47 Uhr -0700 schrieb Abhilash Raj > <maxking(a)asynchronous.in>: > > As Simon mentioned, try using DEBUG=False, if you don't already have > > that. With DEBUG=True, you should see emails printed in a `emails` > > directory under `mailman-suite_project` directory. > > Bingo! Man, I was not seeing the forest for the trees. I should have > peeked inside that emails folder. And yes, changing the DEBUG flag > resolves the problem and emails now go out as they should. My bad! > Thank you! > > > > That being said, the enormous number of configuration files to consider > > > and dozens of cross-references to other pages in the docs make the > > > installation guide hard to follow; it also lacks logical structure in my > > > opinion, when it refers to parts of the configuration which are later > > > explained. For someone like me who never programmed a Django application > > > (Ruby dev) this is all pretty cryptic. Especially, that some parts of > > > information are on <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/index.html> whereas > > > other parts are scattered over readthedocs.io makes it very > > > complicated. > > > > There are only two primary configuration files (there are a few more for > > finer configurations ;-): > > Mh, mailman.cfg, settings.py, and hyperkitty.py are three. But I agree, > I exaggerated. > > > All the settings mentioned in the documentation go to either of these > > files, except, when configuring web server and mail server. Please open > > an issue[2] if it is not clear where a particular configuration snippet > > goes and we will fix it. > > I'll open an issue later; for now off the top of my head so I won't > forget I came over these problems with the docs: > > * The linked installation guide for Sass > (<http://sass-lang.com/install>) does not include any C/C++ > implementation you speak of. Fixed, http://sass-lang.com/libsass is the correct URL, not sure why is it not mentioned under `/install`. > * The mailman-suite's settings.py includes a handler for Less, which is > not mentioned in any documentation. I don't think we use `less` anymore, I will confirm this and remove it if needed. It hasn't caused a problem yet, so I am assuming it is never used. https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-suite/issues/7 > * It's officially suggested to use the "fhs" filesystem path > layout. It's not documented that you need to create the exact > directories and change permissions accordingly; even worse, if one > uses this layout, Mailman tries to write into /sbin, which only the > package manager is allowed to do. Thus, don't recommend that layout in > <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/config-core.html>. I have been thinking which layout is best and should be used. FHS makes most sense, but it is true that `pip` can't write to `/sbin` and hence it doesn't work if you aren't using a package manager. I have changed the docs to recommend `master` layout which uses the whichever directory the `mailman` command is stored in as `bin_dir`. > * This page: <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/config-core.html> does not > mention that the "postfix_lmtp" and "postfix_domains" files are > *generated* by Mailman. I spend quite some time looking for these > files before I found in the Mailman Core docs that they're generated > and it was not an error in my installation. Added a note about it in the docs under "Configuring MTA" section. > * This page: <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/config-core.html> configures > the LMTP server and the REST API server for the same TCP port > (8024). This clashes. Fixed, thanks! > * This page: <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/config-web.html> should > mention the thing with the DEBUG variable we've successfully worked > through in > this thread. Added a note about it. > * There's no mention of how to create the initial superuser on > <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/>, it is hidden down in > <https://postorius.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup.html>, where however > there's no mention of the mailman-suite, but some kind of > "example_project". It was unclear to me whether this now applied to me > or not. Added a section about it under http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-web.html > * <http://docs.list.org/en/latest> contains quite some pip install > commands (duplicated from the postorius/hyperkitty/core docs), but > it's missing "$ pip3 install mailman-hyperkitty", which is only > mentioned in <http://hyperkitty.readthedocs.io/en/latest/install.html> > in the text body (but not as a command block). Added to the installation guide. > * This page: > <http://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/mta.html> > uses "configuration: python:mailman.config.postfix" in the > introductory text without explanation, but down in the > Postfix-specific block the directive is missing with no explanation. I > opted to include it, but I don't know whether that's now correct or > not. You only need to specify settings that you want to override from default. "configuration" for Postfix used to be completely blank until recently, when we added support for regex maps along with hash maps in Postfix. The default is set to hash maps and you don't need to specify the configuration if you using it, if you need to use regex maps, you create a new configuration file and point to it under "configuration". I will see how to make that more clear in there. > The overall problem I had with the docs is that they can't be followed > top-down. One has to refer to the subproject docs if something is > unclear, then searching in them until one finds what one was looking for > (even if one doesn't know what one is looking for, as with the superuser > creation command). I totally appreciate the detailed subproject-docs > approach, but you should follow it consequently then. That is, do not > duplicate some information from the subproject docs in the mailman-suite > docs. It creates the impression as if the mailman-suite docs are > complete, which they aren't. Instead, the mailman-suite docs should use > explicit references, for example: > > 1. Do this... > 2. Now follow the procedure outlined in [Postorius Installation link] > 3. Do something else... > 4. Follow the procudedure in [Hyperkitty installation link] > > That way, the Mailman installation guide would be less of a puzzle. > It however might just be me. I apologise if I sound silly. It wasn't silly at all, in-fact you comments were very helpful to improve the documentation. We would like to not make assumptions about pre-requisite knowledge to use Mailman's documentation and it is hard for us developers to do that without feedback. Thanks a lot to you! -- Abhilash Raj maxking(a)asynchronous.in

8 years

[MM3-users] Re: mailman 3 adding extraneous /var/ to pid path?

by Abhilash Raj

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017, at 02:42 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 09/21/2017 01:29 PM, Andrew Hodder wrote: > > > > I keep getting around this by creating symlinks to the pid file and then > > the stop works, but it's getting silly. It seems like mailman just assumes > > CWD + /var/ + master.pid must be the location. Once I realized this, I > > found I can do "mailman stop" so long as I'm only in /opt/mailman/ (since > > it'd then add /var/master.pid). But that seems a little nonsensical. > > > That is the normal expected behavior if devmode is enabled. Check your > configs for this. I don't think `devmode` has anything to do with this, it only disables sending out emails by accident and routes all emails to a pre-defined address. Haven't looked at the relevant portion of the source so I might be wrong. In the absence of any configuration file in pre-defined locations[1], Core will always generate a `var/` directory under $CWD with basic configuration and use it to track a running mailman instance (logs, db, pid file etc). Ideally, you should place your configuration file at one of the locations that it looks and specify a `[paths.custom]` directive in there to make sure it knows where to put everything. See [2] for more details. [1]: http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-core.html#configuring-mailman-core [2]: http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/config-core.html#configuring-filesystem-… > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list > mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ -- Abhilash Raj maxking(a)asynchronous.in

8 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: templates

by Christian

In March when I started troubleshooting my lists, you stated: "Also, one other thing you might check. Do these non-working lists have templates defined in postorius, in particular, one for list:member:regular:footer, and if not, are there any in Mailman's var/templates/lists/redlatinleg(a)lists.ccalternatives.org/ derectory that Mailman doesn't have permission to find and read?" There are no other templates listed in either Postorius nor in Mailman's var/templates (as I stated, I do not even lave a 'lists' subdirectory under Mailman's var/templates). My subscribers are not receiving message distributions from my lists, even while some of them are listed in the archives. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2023 10:58 AM To: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org Subject: [MM3-users] Re: templates On 5/4/23 10:33, Christian via Mailman-users wrote: > I'm having issues with my lists. For each list I have created a > template [ list:user:action:subscribe ]which has a prospective > subscriber have to consent to list rules before they are subscribed. > This template I created is listed in Postorius for each list. I have > noticed that there are no other templates listed in Postorius. Furthermore, there is no 'lists' > subdirectory under Mailman's var/templates/. When you set a template in Postorius it saves it in the postorius_emailtemplate table in the database and tells Mailman core to get the template from Postorius via a URI to a Postorius API. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ Archived at: https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message/ QIHCMEBWANR67HV3NKBK5MCQNSNZRF2A/ This message sent to csa(a)web-analysts.net

2 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: cleanup lost users completly - mailman shell

by Mark Sapiro

On 2/21/22 03:28, Paul Paulchen wrote: > > Thanks to this thread, I know how to find the lost souls in our mailman environment > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/… > > > >>> um = getUtility(IUserManager) > >>> for usr in um.users: > ... if len(list(usr.memberships.members)) > 0: > ... continue > ... adr = usr.addresses[0] > ... print(f'Name: {adr.display_name}, Email: {adr.email}, Created: {usr.created_on}') > > So I can see them now. Is there a technique, to clean them up? To get rid of them out of the system? > I am not a python programmer, but I guess there is a way to use, instead of a single user, a list of users in the delete command of the mailman shell? The replies by Guillermo and Andrew both point to a message/thread containing the same clean_users.py script. This script will do some of what you want, but maybe not all of it. It will delete Django users who have no corresponding Mailman user or have a corresponding Mailman user that has no role on any list, and optionally delete the Mailman user as well. What it won't do is delete a Mailman user that has no role on any list if there is no corresponding Django user. For that you would want to add to the above fragment so it becomes: ``` >>> um = getUtility(IUserManager) >>> for usr in um.users: ... if len(list(usr.memberships.members)) > 0: ... continue ... adr = usr.addresses[0] ... print(f'Name: {adr.display_name}, Email: {adr.email}, Created: {usr.created_on}') ... um.delete_user(usr) ... print(' Deleted.) ... >>> commit() ``` -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Docker or virtualenv?

by Odhiambo Washington

On Sat, Dec 31, 2022 at 2:29 PM Andrew Hodgson <andrew(a)hodgson.io> wrote: > Tim Cutts <tim(a)thecutts.org> wrote: > > >I’ve used docker on my setup. I have been wondering about this though, it > causes me to need to run an AWS VM continuously to run my mailing lists, > and that probably isn’t really necessary. I do sometimes wonder whether > docker might be a better approach and run it under ECS, so I no longer have > to >look after a VM. > > >Even better, MM3 is just a bunch of python functions at the end of the > day, and it doesn’t *need* to be running continuously. Mailing lists are, > more or less by definition, event driven. Has anyone considered whether > it’s feasible to turn it into a bunch of Lambda functions with a serverless > database behind >it? > > I actually moved from Docker to Virtualenv on my machine as I wanted to > use the same larger VM to run a Cloudron instance which takes over Docker. > Overall I have been more happier with the virtualenv approach as it allows > me to customise the install more easier. I did look at running Mailman > using Azure Container instances. The main thing here is we need to get the > MTA integrated, and the MTA needs to send out emails from a static IP > address with reverse DNS etc setup. This isn't easy to do on anything other > than a VM. > MM3 can use a local or a remote MTA, I believe. However, for the MTA to send out emails to the "Internet", then DNS/PTR requirements must be met. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-)

2 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: Problem with redirection when entering alias without a / at the end

by Jens Günther

Am 19.03.21 um 23:04 schrieb Mark Sapiro: > On 3/19/21 2:55 PM, Jens Günther wrote: >> >> When I want to get to Mailman Starting Page now I need to Enter the >> following URL: https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman3/ to be directly >> redirected as expected to >> https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman3/postorius/lists/ -> works. >> >> Problem: When leave out the slash at the end and I ONLY enter the >> following URL: https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman3 -> then I'm wrongly >> redirected to a page, taht does not exist: >> https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman/postorius/lists/ -> 404 > > > Huh? that is the same URL as the one above that you say works. Do you > mean https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman/postorius/lists without the slash or > what. Here is the difference: https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman3/ https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman3 -> the first one works and leeds to https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman3/postorius/lists -> the second one redirects to https://mailman.xyz.de/mailman/postorius/lists -> which does not exist, since Apache-alias is only for mailman3 >> Where can I change this misbehaviour? In Apache-conf everything seems as >> it's in the docs, for the vHost I do not have any other custom settings. > > > What is the exact content of your RedirectMatch or ReweriteRule or > whatebver you are using? > I only use the apache-conf given in the documentation: <code> Alias /mailman3/favicon.ico /var/lib/mailman3/web/static/postorius/img/favicon.ico Alias /mailman3/static /var/lib/mailman3/web/static <Directory "/var/lib/mailman3/web/static"> Require all granted </Directory> <IfModule mod_proxy_uwsgi.c> ProxyPass /mailman3/favicon.ico ! ProxyPass /mailman3/static ! ProxyPass /mailman3 unix:/run/mailman3-web/uwsgi.sock|uwsgi://localhost/ </IfModule> </code>

4 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: getting all registered users and their lists

by IOhannes m zmoelnig

On 1/26/22 17:19, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 1/26/22 00:16, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: > > You can do this in mailman shell[...]> ``` > >>> from datetime import datetime > >>> um = getUtility(IUserManager) > >>> for usr in um.users: > ... if len(list(usr.memberships.members)) > 0: > ... continue > ... if usr.created_on < datetime(2022, 1, 1): > ... continue > ... adr = usr.addresses[0] > ... print(f'Name: {adr.display_name}, Email: {adr.email}, Created: > {usr.created_on}') > ... > ``` > perfect. that did the trick, thanks a lot. >> is there a scriptable way to get all users that have registered in my >> mailman3 (3.2.1) instance and which lists they are subscribed to (if >> any)? > > It's in Postorius >= 1.3.6 i'm not entirely sure how this relates to the above (working) snippet. is it, that with postorious>=1.3.6 i would be able to perform that task from the webinterface, rather than having to resort to 'mailman shell'? in any case, this might be related: before i received your email with the 'mailman shell' snippet, i scraped some bits of my django knowledge and visited <https://lists.example.com/admin> (the django admin interface), and noticed the list of users there. so i scraped that page for users (assuming that this was the list of registered users). then i get myself a list of all subscribers in my instance, using a crude `mailman lists | grep "@" | while read l; do mailman members "${l}"; done | sort -u`. finally i calculated the difference between the two sets. interestingly the results are quite different from the ones i got from your script: both sets contain users that are not in the other set. how come? gfmdras IOhannes

3 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] About the path forward [was: ... regarding message acceptance]

by Stephen J. Turnbull

I'm not Mark, but .... :-) "Plans", you ask? Hmm.... Pawel Grzywaczewski writes: > Any plans to implement message acceptance based on another list? I think that most Mailman 2.1 features are plausible proposals for Mailman 3. While we don't make decisions based on user voting, we do care about user requests. If you want to make a formal request, post a request for enhancement (ie, issue) on our GitLab issue tracker, and post a link here so other interested people can follow it. > What about adding list1 as member to list2? In Mailman 2.1 there > was an 'umbrella' feature I think it doesn't exist in Mailman3. > Any plans to add it? Same as above. I don't know Mark's plans, but he's been active on these lists. I myself hope to have some time for development later in the summer, but I've been away from the code for quite a while, and have at least two prior projects I've expressed interest in. I have no idea about Abhilash or Terri's time, except that they're always busy, and there are a couple of other developers who might drift back in at some point if something exciting starts happening. However, these kinds of additions described above are somewhat more complicated in Mailman 3 than they were in Mailman 2. We have added the ability to identify groups of lists as domains (and therefore have multiple lists by the same name if they are each in a different domain), and the ability to identify groups of email addresses as users. This means that there are more opportunities for unfortunate things to happen. For example, a user might have a particular address for posting to a particular list, and be unhappy if they were accidentally "unmasked" when they posted by a different address, and that post was accepted because those addresses are both owned by the same user. Whether you think this one is a "real problem" or not, we need to do more than a little thinking about such things as we improve Mailman. We missed the window for GSoC this year. We've had excellent success in getting students (I don't think we were ever denied a slot we asked for), so prospects for next year are good. I myself am looking at mandatory retirement in a couple of years, and am planning to ramp up development/consulting activity over this period. So I know a year is a long time, but we are actively supporting existing features, and intend to continue development for the foreseeable future. Finally, Brian Carpenter and EMWD are actively developing alternatives to Postorius and HyperKitty. (Affinity and Empathy, respectively; I believe Affinity is already in beta, Empathy I don't know about status). You can find out more about them in the Mailman Developers <mailman-developers(a)python.org> archives and in the archives of this list. These are independent friendly projects, not hostile forks. You may find them to provide more straightforward access to configurations you want, although they do depend on Mailman core for much "back office" functionality, and obviously they're less mature than Postorius and HyperKitty. But they have the advantage of targeting a much more mature Mailman core, so they'll catch up fast. EMWD hosts a lot of Mailman lists and hosts, so I for one would consider a request for features from Affinity developers to be representative of many list owners.[1] Footnotes: [1] Not to deprecate Empathy, but the relationship between core and any archiver is pretty much "arm's length". Archiver features are mostly independent of the core.

5 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Filter who can send on mailman3 list?

by Mark Sapiro

On 4/5/21 6:43 AM, marcus.granath(a)gmail.com wrote: > > So what I basically try do achieve is to have only the following addresses to be allowed to send announcements (e-mails) on the mailman3 list, and all others that are member of the mailman3 list will just receive the e-mails. The usual "announcements" are sent out as the "no-reply" address (that actually are not really part of the mailman3 list) ;-) > > no-reply(a)abc.com ("fake address" that actually are not really part of the mailing-list) > peter(a)abc.com > david(a)abc.com > marcus(a)abc.com > > How to achieve this kind of filter with mailman3? Header filters is not the way to do this. First set both "Default action to take when a non-member posts to thelist" and "Default action to take when a member posts to the list" to either Hold for moderation or Discard (no notification). Reject is not recommended because of backscatter from spam posts with spoofed From: addresses. Then ensure all members Moderation Action is set to None or List Default (two names for the same thing). Now, no one can post. To allow your set of users to post, you have choices. The easy way but not secure against spoofing is to set the Maderation Action for the three allowed members to List Default and toi create a non-member for no-reply(a)abc.com and set it's moderation action to List Default. The more secure way is to leave everyone moderated, set a moderator password for the list and post with an Approved: header or pseudo header. See <https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/rules/docs…>. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: mail stuck in "out" queue

by Mark Sapiro

On 9/16/22 10:49, Dan Caballero wrote: > > We're seeing some messages having the .bak files in the out queue for up to 30, 40 or even 60 minutes. I've increased the number of in and out runners to 8 each. Is there a way to know which runner has which message? If the .bak files eventually go away, this is because the message has a large number of recipients and delivery to the MTA is slow. For the out runner, look in Mailman's smtp.log for messages of the form: <message-id> smtp to <list> for nn recips, completed in tt.ttt seconds to see how long it's taking. If it seems too long (even with full VERP, it should be at least 5 to 10 recips per second), there are things you can do in the MTA to speed processing. In particular, don't do recipient validation at incoming smtp time - possibly configure an alternate submission port for Mailman to use. It shouldn't be necessary to slice the in runner and it processes very quickly. To answer your question, queue entries have a name of the form <timestamp>+<hex hash> with a .pck or .bak extension. The entry is assigned to a particular runner based on the first bits of the hash. For 8 slices this is the first 3 bits of the hash, so if the first hex digit of the hash is 0 or 1, that out queue entry will be processed by the out:0:8 runner; if it's 2 or 3, that out queue entry will be processed by the out:1:8 runner and so on through e or f processed by the out:7:8 runner. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

3 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman 3 database restore unexpected behavior

by Mark Sapiro

On 3/28/23 04:00, Tibor Molnar wrote: > Mailman3 built from source using virtual environment. > Version: > GNU Mailman 3.3.8 (Tom Sawyer) > Python 3.9.2 (default, Feb 28 2021, 17:03:44) > [GCC 10.2.1 20210110] > config file: /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg > > Issue: > I have restored the database number of times recently and experienced that every time after restoration (an hour after) all members getting an email that they are unsubscribed due to bounces, however non of the users are actually unsubscribed from any lists. It looks like there are duplicates in database and all the duplicates are getting unsubscribed? > > Bounces message: > name(a)email.com unsubscribed from [listname] mailing list due to bounces That's an admin notice, not a notice to the user. > Only restoring two files: mailman3 and mailman3web > > Did anyone come acroos this behavior ? This seems sort of like <https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/…>, but it doesn't seem like that would be the issue here. > It is not right that after restoring a database all 1000 user get an email that they are unsubscribed, but they are actually not. > I may do something wrong during the restoring process. > Please advise me. The code that decides which users are to be removed is at <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/blob/master/src/mailman/model/member.p…> Somehow you must be restoring members whose delivery status is disabled by bounce and whose total_warnings_sent is >= the list's bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings. What do you get from this query on the mailman3 database SELECT email FROM member JOIN address ON address_id = address.id JOIN preferences ON member.preferences_id = preferences.id WHERE delivery_status = 3 AND total_warnings_sent > 0; -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Held messages not delivered after approval

by Stephen J. Turnbull

I see Mark answered some of the same questions already, but it would be really painstaking to avoid duplication (it took more than an hour to write this :-), so I'm just gonna scan it quickly and then send. Stephan Krinetzki writes: > My queues: (Omitting the empty ones.) > /opt/mailman/var/queue/out: > total 2868 > drwxrwx--- 2 mailman mailman 4096 Jul 31 13:26 . > drwxr-xr-x 14 mailman mailman 165 Jun 27 2024 .. > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 221708 Jul 30 13:16 1753874180.0845337+0cc7849043859a79dc3678a0d8b63c1c66df0c66.pck.tmp > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 733425 Jul 31 00:00 1753912841.8847518+da55f8789ae41b75d19a02b595e3fd6d45983ade.pck.tmp > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 17758 Jul 31 13:26 1753961185.0481033+6adf966467266567275f1146f5054c95e4365c13.pck Those two .pck.tmp files are bad news. They indicate that Mailman was trying to do something with those messages, and the process was interrupted. You should check whether there was a Mailman restart at those times (although it should shutdown gracefully and not leave .tmp files behind), or if a runner crashed. The .tmp files *may* be deliverable, but you'd have to look at them to be sure that they are complete. It's possible that they have been delivered already and the .tmp files just need to be removed. You can look at them with "mailman qfile" same as always, "qfile" doesn't check the filename extension. If they haven't been delivered and a careful check shows they're intact, just renaming without the .tmp will cause them to go to the head of the queue. It's also odd that the .pck above precedes the ,bak below (unless you have multiple slices for the out queue?) The rest of the queue looks normal, except that it seems rather long. I only see queues that long when the outgoing MTA is borked. (Although my experience with high-traffic systems is restricted to helping a couple of folks for whom there was zero cost to adding CPUs and memory to their VMs, I feel better that Mark picked up on this too.) You might want to reconfigure Mailman to use more out slices, but that depends on what else your MTA should be using its bandwidth for. Because of the way the slicing algorithm works, the number of slices needs to be a power of 2, so the number of simultaneous connections Mailman makes to the MTA will double. (I don't think there's any point to more than 4 slices unless you're doing more than one incoming post/second.) > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 31122 Jul 31 13:26 1753961185.1064982+b1f502e2af56b9b11680135c6de5fcc5285d967e.bak This .bak file is currently being processed by Mailman, it's normal. The rest of the .pck files are also normal, just waiting. (Omitting the rest of the out queue listing.) > /opt/mailman/var/queue/shunt: > total 3304 > drwxrwx--- 2 mailman mailman 4096 Jul 31 11:44 . > drwxr-xr-x 14 mailman mailman 165 Jun 27 2024 .. > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 451 Jul 31 00:00 1753912822.2651796+28eceef7e18eb70393377b88dc7117af8f9362a0.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 490 Jul 31 00:00 1753912838.4197352+ea531cf0262c1faa58b1679b907fee92bc16822c.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 1407870 Jul 31 00:00 1753912841.9177196+ccea15bdefce3a54301281c8eddf86e8230244a6.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 86108 Jul 31 00:00 1753912841.9197443+7dcef4febc71e44c6d9309a24a08b08753e1ff42.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 1407668 Jul 31 00:00 1753912841.9849963+a3f1869b750060c97262ece38737480d91652828.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 38992 Jul 31 00:01 1753912860.5167956+940584c4f361cbd8c29e390b2f60590558effe40.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 440 Jul 31 00:01 1753912860.6972685+635c065bac8dff5f9d562275d707001d773b84c1.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 445 Jul 31 00:01 1753912868.7903054+befa066f254d7a3529a8555a6c942a554715d837.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 33494 Jul 31 00:01 1753912878.7562895+82b724fd93260ab9a2bb49709d3a42a2f32f2c80.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 217073 Jul 31 00:01 1753912878.9337828+de73a65d9c6febfa80275853921f4b53fd1d9e2a.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 85888 Jul 31 00:02 1753912950.303359+8a87bce0be63ac1df8493c6b1ad6ae154fcedba7.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 50244 Jul 31 00:02 1753912950.4970112+d44d493912bb3024547b8a5112f86f035dcb352f.pck > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 12887 Jul 31 00:02 1753912970.038427+31bcbd7fb2ebdf81f6de24b7283b50bcda6ded21.pck.tmp > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 443 Jul 31 11:44 1753955094.900898+67bc76525412da66a7c76363f65f583989716305.pck > > /opt/mailman/var/queue/virgin: > total 32 > drwxrwx--- 2 mailman mailman 81 Jul 31 13:17 . > drwxr-xr-x 14 mailman mailman 165 Jun 27 2024 .. > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mailman 32013 Jan 11 2025 1736550035.6163204+472f81ece5e45a2651a4499bef418f611b43c619.pck.tmp > > Nothing special there (shunt should be checked, but not in > correlation with my mail). I tend to disagree, as the first series of shunt files ends with a .tmp. There's another one of those .tmp files in virgin, and it's 6 months old. Hmmm, that one is *also* on the hour. You got lots of cron jobs that run on the hour, maybe? You're probably right that there's no correlation, but you can't trust the dates from ls -l or stat because when running "mailman unshunt" all of the queue files in shunt will get "touched" if they're not sent. (If I recall correctly.) The fact that a spate of timestamps occur right at 00:00 means either there's a cron job running unshunt then, or you have a spammer or similar sending a bunch of broken mail to you on the hour. (I say you're probably right because the time stamp in the name decodes to the same time, and I don't think that changes when unshunt is run.) And again, you have a stale .tmp file there, which means something bad happened, most likely not under Mailman's control. There is (maybe was. by now?) a bug in the logging such that logs did not get properly rotated. Many sites dealt with this by restarting Mailman with the same period of the log rotation. Do you do that? (I'm just fishing, I don't know how it could cause the main issue you are seeing.) > mailq is empty, so my postfix works as expected. Hm. Those "high traffic" sites I mentioned, it was the other way around: with 4 (or 8) "out" slices, the out queue would be clear >80% of the time (according to "while 1; do ls -l $OUTQUEUE; sleep 5; done", nothing sophisticated). But the MTA's mail queue would typically backlog many minutes. As I said, the Mailman hosts at those sites were insanely overpowered, so your mileage will vary. I have to think that there is a problem in the handoff between Mailman and the MTA. Why Mailman is not preserving the queuefile or alternatively logging a successful delivery to the MTA I don't have any idea off hand. I have to think the queue runner is crashing, but that doesn't explain why this happens only to certain lists. Is Postfix delivering to the final destination itself, or does it pass on the messages to a smarthost? Is Mailman talking to the local MTA, or is it possibly talking to an MTA on a different node? I did have to diagnose a problem once where a system was misconfigured, and Mailman was talking not to the local Postfix but to a Postfix in a datacenter a megameter or so away! (That didn't lose any mail, but the connection would occasionally freeze and not time out, leading to a huge build up in the out queue.) Anyway, if Mailman isn't talking to an MTA with a <50ms ping time, you could try changing the configuration so it does. I don't put much stock in any of the above ideas. I hope that you or somebody come up with better ones! -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan

3 months

[MM3-users] Re: Help with some 'withlist' configuration changes

by David Partain

Hi! Thank you, Mark, for giving me something to go on! I'll dig further. Cheers, David On Wed, 2021-06-23 at 06:59 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: On 6/23/21 6:30 AM, David Partain via Mailman-users wrote: Hi, Firstly, a repeat that I have a relatively broken (and soon to be fixed, I hope) installation of mailman3 based on Ubuntu 18.04 distrib packages (3.1.1-9) that stumbles along by me dealing with a bunch of things by hand that I hope'll go away once I'm up to the current version. In this set-up, I get a fair number of items shunted. Since I have this wonky version where stuff isn't always exposed in the web interface, I have to fix these things by hand. An example is that something gets shunted because of too many recipients, where I do: sudo -u list mailman withlist somemailmanlist m.max_num_recipients = 0 commit() sudo -u list mailman unshunt I've managed to find a number of these, such as m.max_message_size, m.require_explicit_destination, and m.administrivia. There is some other issue here as these things should only cause a message to be held, not shunted. Some exception is being thrown in the process of holding the messgage, and thaty is the real issue. What are the tracebacks in Mailman's mailman.log for these shunts? My questions are undoubtedly foolish, but here goes: 1. Is there any way to print the entire 'm' structure? If so, I'd perhaps be able to figure out the answers to my other questions. dir(m) or maybe you want >>> for x in dir(m): ... if not x.startswith('_'): ... print(f'{x}: {m.__getattribute__(x)}') ... 2. Is there a way for me to correct the following shunt-ing issues with 'withlist'? I've been unable to figure out how... a. 'moderation_reasons': [ 'Message has no subject'] / 'rule_hits': ['no-subject'] b. Some things get caught as 'rule_hits': ['nonmember-moderation']. However, if I look in the (web-based) config, it shows that non-members should be accepted but the messages are shunted nonetheless. I don't know what to look for in 'm' or how I might clear these messages. As I note above, these things are reasons to hold the message. The shunting occurs because something is going wrong in the holding process. Find the errors and tracebacks in Mailman's mailman.log to see what the real issue might be. 3. I have no idea what these are telling me to do about digest messages. Suggestions? This is the entire info I get from 'mailman qfile': ------------------------------------------------------snip snip---------------------------------------------- [----- start pickle -----] <----- start object 1 -----> <----- start object 2 -----> { '_parsemsg': False, 'digest_number': 457, 'digest_path': '/var/lib/mailman3/lists/somelist/digest.31.457.mmdf', 'lang': 'en', 'listid': 'somelistid', 'version': 3, 'volume': 31, 'whichq': 'digest'} [----- end pickle -----] ------------------------------------------------------snip snip---------------------------------------------- That is telling you there was in issue in sending the digest, the mailbox for which is /var/lib/mailman3/lists/somelist/digest.31.457.mmdf. Unshunting that will retry sending that digest. 4. I have some that have 'rule_hits': [] (it's empty) but are shunted nonetheless. I can't see anything weird other than one of the messages has a utf-8 subject. Any ideas? 5. Some messages that were sent to -request addresses (e.g., subscribe messages, confirm, approve messages) are being shunted. What should I do with these? You need to find the errors in the log and figure out what the underlying issue is. I'm guessing it's a permissions issue, possibly because of having at one time rum `mailman start` as root causing files to be created and owned by root and not be readable/writable by the Mailman user.

4 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Creating superuser - problem with documentation or it's just me?

by Mark Sapiro

On 7/26/20 9:39 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > Hi, > > In my quest to create a superuser, I followed another HOWTO - > https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/devsetup.html > > (venv) [root@gw /opt/mailman/git/mailman-suite/mailman-suite_project]# > python manage.py migrate > Traceback (most recent call last): manage.py migrate (or django-admin migrate) is part if the mailman-post-update script. It doesn't work here because when you run it this way, it doesn't get your settings.py. > ModuleNotFoundError: No module named '_sqlite3' And it's looking for sqlite3 because that's the default database. > *<==============================================================* > (venv) [root@gw /opt/mailman/git/mailman-suite/mailman-suite_project]# pip > install pysqlite3 You don't need this. You need to run django-admin with the correct settings. > So I figured out that I need to put my own settings_local.py into the > directory and let the command rely on MySQL as the database backend since > by default, it uses sqlite3 backend. > > But the question then is WHY is this not documented on the above page??? Because that's not relevant to what you are doing. You are trying to install Mailman for production, not development. > How can I delete the superuser after creating it?? The only django-admin or manage.py you should run is /opt/mailman/mm/bin/djhango-admin. You can run `django-admin createsuperuser` to create a superuser. If you want to delete one, you need to go to the Django admin web UI - should be http://your.server/admin - login as a superuser and go to the Users page and delete it. You should probably do this as a different superuser -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: My Server is unable to connect to Mailman REST API few times

by Shashikanth Komandoor

Thank you Mark a lot. It worked awesome. You don't know how much you helped me. Thank you once again. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 8:56 PM Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > On 9/19/20 4:32 AM, Shashikanth Komandoor wrote: > > > > But I am trying to delete a list on an urgent basis. Because of which I > am > > getting the above said errors. I tried to delete > > through the interface, through curl command and through "mailman shell" > but > > nothing led me to a > > positive result. Is there any work around to delete the list ? > > What have you tried in Mailman shell? This should do it. > > $ mailman shell -l list.example.com > Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell > Use commit() to commit changes. > Use abort() to discard changes since the last commit. > Exit with ctrl+D does an implicit commit() but exit() does not. > The variable 'm' is the list.example.com mailing list > >>> getUtility(IListManager).delete(m) > >>> commit() > > So should just > > $ mailman remove list.example.com > > What happens if you do those? > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- Thanks & Regards, Shashi Kanth.K 9052671936

5 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Link to account

by Mark Sapiro

On 4/11/23 12:04, Lars Bjørndal wrote: > Thanks a lot. Maybe I've done a mistake, it doesn.t work. > > At the bottom of /etc/mailman3/settings.py I have: > > ROOT_URLCONF = 'urls' > > `cat /etc/mailman3/urls.py` > > [...] > > urlpatterns = [ > path( > '', > RedirectView.as_view(url=reverse_lazy('list_index'), permanent=True), > ), > path('lists/mailman3/', include('postorius.urls')), > path('lists/archives/', include('hyperkitty.urls')), > path('lists/', include('django_mailman3.urls')), > path('lists/accounts/', include('allauth.urls')), > path('lists/admin/', admin.site.urls), > ] > > In Apache config for the domain, I now have: > > <IfModule mod_proxy.c> > ProxyPreserveHost On > ProxyPass "lists/mailman3" "http://127.0.0.1:8000/lists/mailman3" > ProxyPass "lists/archives" "http://127.0.0.1:8000/lists/archives" > ProxyPass "lists/accounts" "http://127.0.0.1:8000/lists/accounts" > ProxyPass "lists/admin" "http://127.0.0.1:8000/lists/admin" > ProxyPass "lists/user-profile" "http://127.0.0.1:8000/lists/user-profile" > </IfModule> > > Restarted mailmanweb, httpd and mailman3. > > If I go to list.punktskriftutvalget.no/mailman3/, I get a 404 Not Found response in browser. > > So what's wrong, do you think? You followed https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/… literally. The literal instructions where to access everything via URLs like https://mydomain.org/lists/.... If you were to replace `lists` with `mailman3` everywhere in the abpve, you would then access HyperKitty via a URL like https://list.punktskriftutvalget.no/mailman3/archives/ and Postorius via https://list.punktskriftutvalget.no/mailman3/mailman3/ If that's not what you want, it's more complicated and some things might not be possible. What exactly do you want for access to Postorius, HyperKitty, user accounts, user profiles and the Django admin UI? -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: How to prevent members to attach executables (exe, bat, ...) to the emails sent to list

by Mark Sapiro

On 10/1/20 3:23 PM, Mohsen Masoudfar wrote: > Hi Mark, > Thanks again for the helpful hint. It seems that I still miss something. I am running Mailman3.1.1. I ran the following on my test server. > I am trying, for test purpose only, to filter PDF attachments. > > First I just used the pass_type, assuming once this is set, everything else is filtered. That's how it should work. > # mailman withlist testlist3(a)x.com >>>> m.pass_types = ['multipart', 'message/rfc822', 'text', 'application/pgp-signature'] >>>> commit() >>>> print(list(m.pass_types)) > ['multipart', 'message/rfc822', 'text', 'application/pgp-signature'] > > This let PDF be send by Mailman3. Well, I need to add filter_types too, so I did this: It shouldn't unless athe Content-Type: of the PDF part was text/* or application/pgp-signature >>>> m.filter_types = ['application/pdf'] >>>> commit() >>>> print(list(m.filter_types)) > ['application/pdf'] This should allow ONLY the PDF and nothing else, not even the text/* message body parts. > Mailman3 still distributes PDF files as attachment. What am I doing wrong? > > This is the final settings: > >>>> print(list(m.pass_types)) > ['multipart', 'message/rfc822', 'text', 'application/pgp-signature'] >>>> print(list(m.filter_types)) > ['application/pdf'] This is wrong. set m.filter_types =[] Look at the raw message you receive from the list. What is the VConten-Type of the PDF part? Actually, what's m.filter_content? I suspect it's False which means don't do any content filtering. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: mailman-web: ResponseNotReady

by Abhilash Raj

Hi, $ docker-compose rm -f mailman-web $ docker-compose up -d mailman-web This will basically create a new container for Mailman-web, but, since the state of mailman-web is stored completely in database (database container), I am not sure how to reset *just* mailman-web without dropping mailman-core related tables too (they share the same database but have their own separate tables). The above command will get you a fresh copy of code running. You can potentially get the list of tables and drop them, or maybe Diango has some way to reset it's state from Django shell (python manage.py shell, from inside mailman-web will get you shell). I may have to look it up. Also, just by looking at the traceback, I am not sure about the exact error. I may have to debug more to arrive at a better conclusion, which I won't able to do until after this weekend. Thanks, Abhilash On October 18, 2017 1:27:21 PM PDT, Dmitry Makovey <dmakovey(a)stanford.edu> wrote: >On 10/18/2017 12:28 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> On 10/18/2017 09:00 AM, Dmitry Makovey wrote: >>> >>> It seems like mailman-core is still operating properly, but for some >>> reason mailman-web is not. Can I reset mailman-web somehow to >re-initiate? >> >> >> I'm not very well versed in the docker images, but I think >mailman-web >> uses uWsgi and sending the uwsgi process a SIGHUP should do it. > >I think I didn't express myself clearly - I want to reset any saved >state for mailman-web - not just in-memory stuff. I've restarted my >setup several times with mailman-web having exact same problem every >time. > >-- >Sr System and DevOps Engineer SoM IRT -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

8 years

[MM3-users] postfix malformed address with confirm replies

by Stephen Willey Mats Mats

I’m getting bounces back from postfix (553 5.1.3 Error: malformed address) for my confirm replies. I found a similar issue in this lists’ archives back in 2017 but that issue was supposedly fixed in version 3.2 I’m running the current docker containers. I’m pretty sure I have all of the mailman settings in postix: " # Support the default VERP delimiter. recipient_delimiter = + unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550 owner_request_special = no transport_maps = regexp:/opt/mailman/core/var/data/postfix_lmtp local_recipient_maps = regexp:/opt/mailman/core/var/data/postfix_lmtp relay_domains = regexp:/opt/mailman/core/var/data/postfix_domains " the entries in /opt/mailman/core/var/data/postfix_lmtp look like they should match /^matsmats-mm3-test1(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-bounces(\+.*)?(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-confirm(\+.*)?(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-join(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-leave(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-owner(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-request(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-subscribe(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 /^matsmats-mm3-test1-unsubscribe(a)mm3\.aca-aws\.s\.uw\.edu$/ lmtp:[172.19.199.2]:8024 thanks, steve > On Feb 26, 2021, at 14:08:54 PST, Mail Delivery System <MAILER-DAEMON(a)ip-172-31-18-222.us-west-2.compute.internal> wrote: > > This is the mail system at host ip-172-31-18-222.us-west-2.compute.internal. > > I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not > be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. > > For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. > > If you do so, please include this problem report. You can > delete your own text from the attached returned message. > > The mail system > > <matsmats-mm3-test1-confirm+d6f77a2572ef55a8b2c4ca0d77de8493fbb55856(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu>: > host 172.19.199.2[172.19.199.2] said: 553 5.1.3 Error: malformed address > (in reply to RCPT TO command) > Reporting-MTA: dns; ip-172-31-18-222.us-west-2.compute.internal > X-Postfix-Queue-ID: E144B8BC3C5 > X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; stephen.s.w.matsmats(a)gmail.com > Arrival-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 14:08:54 -0800 (PST) > > Final-Recipient: rfc822; matsmats-mm3-test1-confirm+d6f77a2572ef55a8b2c4ca0d77de8493fbb55856(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu > Original-Recipient: rfc822;matsmats-mm3-test1-confirm+d6f77a2572ef55a8b2c4ca0d77de8493fbb55856(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu > Action: failed > Status: 5.1.3 > Remote-MTA: dns; 172.19.199.2 > Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 553 5.1.3 Error: malformed address > > From: Steve Mats Mats <willey(a)selby.com> > Subject: Re: Your confirmation is needed to join the matsmats-mm3-test1(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu mailing list. > Date: February 26, 2021 at 2:08:52 PM PST > To: matsmats-mm3-test1-confirm+d6f77a2572ef55a8b2c4ca0d77de8493fbb55856(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu > > > > >> On Feb 26, 2021, at 11:41:54 PST, matsmats-mm3-test1-confirm+d6f77a2572ef55a8b2c4ca0d77de8493fbb55856(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu wrote: >> >> Email Address Registration Confirmation >> >> Hello, this is the GNU Mailman server at mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu. >> >> We have received a registration request for the email address >> >> willey(a)teamd.org >> >> Before you can start using GNU Mailman at this site, you must first confirm >> that this is your email address. You can do this by replying to this message. >> >> Or you should include the following line -- and only the following >> line -- in a message to matsmats-mm3-test1-request(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu: >> >> confirm d6f77a2572ef55a8b2c4ca0d77de8493fbb55856 >> >> Note that simply sending a `reply' to this message should work from >> most mail readers. >> >> If you do not wish to register this email address, simply disregard this >> message. If you think you are being maliciously subscribed to the list, or >> have any other questions, you may contact >> >> matsmats-mm3-test1-owner(a)mm3.aca-aws.s.uw.edu > > >

4 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Block members from sending cc's and bcc's

by Mark Sapiro

On 10/20/25 17:50, Cathryn McGuire wrote: > > Me: We've changed from Accept Immediately to Default Processing. We'll investigate other settings that might be making all message Held. The important thing is the reason why the message is held. > More importantly, what are you trying to accomplish? I.e. what do you > want to happen in the following cases? > > Message To: the list, no Cc: -- Accepted > > Message To: the list, Cc: to other address (non-member) -- Hold for moderation. > Message To: the list, Cc: to a member's address –– Accepted I don't think you can accomplish this one. You can hold all messages with a Cc: header with header filter which is close to what you want, but this won't distinguish between members and nonmembers in the Cc: header. There are other cases you might want to address such as multiple values in To:, one of which is the list and another is a nonmember, but I don't think you can accomplish that either. The best you can do in this case is a header filter on To: with a pattern that matches multiple addresses and a hold action. Such a pattern might be something like .*?@[^,]*,.*@ which will match anything up to the first @ followed by anything up to a comma followed by anything up to another @. The idea is it will match anything with two or more strings containing @ and separated by a comma. > Message To: somewhere else, Cc: to the list -- Hold for moderation. > > Message To: elsewhere, Bcc: to the list (require explicit destination > will hold this one) -- Hold for moderation. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 weeks, 1 day

[MM3-users] Re: After server upgrade debian 11→12 and reinstalling everything in (venv), I got this error when accessing → mailman3/lists

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Mark Sapiro writes: > On 9/22/25 05:21, Wikinaut wrote: > > Mark, this is great news, a little bit like expected! > > Thanks again for clarifying the term "generic" here. It's helpful > > to have it for definition of both, "regular" and "digest". > > > > Is this documented somewhere? > > I don't think so. I thought I had seen it "somewhere", but I can't find it now. It should be here: https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/release-3.1/src/mailman/rest/…. See https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/1243. Besides templates.html, this should be documented briefly in the forms for changing the generic, regular, and digest templates, something as simple as adding "if empty, falls back to generic:template" would do for the regular and digest specific templates, and "shadowed by regular:template and digest:template" for the generic template. Note that that is in the developer's documentation for the REST API. :-( We really need to reorganize the docs to be more discoverable for typical admins. > >I think, I need to create a wiki for mailman3. > We have a wiki at https://wiki.list.org/ for all versions of > Mailman. See the first paragraph at that page for info on obtaining > write access. But note that this is *not* appropriate for the wiki, which is more oriented to FAQs and news. Wikis are fine for formal documentation, but only if that's the ground truth. For better or worse, we chose not to do that. -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirius Open Source https://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan

1 month, 1 week

[MM3-users] Re: List rename

by Joel Lord

Well, I've got a developer who has managed to figure out how to rename a list with a set of 3 SQL updates, then updating a few settings via the API. We've beaten the heck out of this at this point with a test list, I'm going to be actually renaming the lists in question tomorrow. Here's some kinda code-ish stuff that you can adapt, it's shell first, python, then more shell: update mailinglist set list_name = '${newname}', list_id = '${newname }.${domain}' where list_id = '${oldname}.${domain}'; update member set list_id = '${newname}.${domain}' where list_id = '${oldname}.${domain}'; update address set email = '${newname}-owner@${domain}' w here email = '${oldname}-owner@${domain}'; settings = dict( acceptable_aliases=['%s@domain' % oldname], display_name="%s" % newname, reply_to_address="%s@domain" % newname, reply_goes_to_list="explicit_header", require_explicit_destination=True, subject_prefix="[%s]" % newname) mv ${listsbase}/${oldname}.${domain} ${listsbase}/${newname}.${domain} mv ${templates}/${oldname}.${domain} ${templates}/${newname}.${domain} # rebuild aliases and virtual maps now I'd been kind of hoping for at least a way to extract the entire list config and subscriber list, then stuff those back in to a different list after a bit of massaging to change the name. Beefing up the command line ecosystem would be extremely useful, particularly for those of us who have been using MM2 forever. Also, just figuring out where things like call_http and dump_json were took my top developer over an hour and he had to resort to a bunch of 'grep -r's to do it. I'd tried and failed at that point, but I was figuring dump_json was some generic python module that we needed to install, rather than being part of MM3. So just adding the appropriate set of imports to the mailman shell documentation pages would really help and shouldn't be all that much of a time investment for anyone who actually knows the answers. Thanks for keeping this project going. I'm horrified that I might some day have to move the lists that I manage out to something like Google Groups with Google's prediliction for deciding they know better than the RFCs. On 10/5/2019 12:05 PM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > On Wed, Sep 25, 2019, at 9:04 AM, Joel Lord wrote: >> I'm in an odd situation where I need to rename a bunch of lists. They >> were all created on mailman2 originally and migrated to mailman3 (very >> successfully, TYVM) but the names were all originally >> discuss-<foo>@domain and it's very confusing to be sure you're always >> sending to the correct <foo>. We want to completely rename the lists to >> <foo>-discuss@domain. >> >> These lists do not keep archives, so if I have to resort to extracting >> the subscriber lists and the configs and building new lists, I'm >> completely fine with that. Problem is, I'm really used to MM2 and >> config_list and could do this without thinking using those tools... that >> I don't have. >> >> Running MM3 3.2.2 trying to make this happen. Any assistance I could >> get will be greatly appreciated. > > There isn't any way yet that allows renaming a list, not sure how hard would that be to achieve that. > > In theory, it should be easy since most places should be using list-id (which wouldn't change if you were to rename a list, as the RFC2919 says), but there might be a few places which are still using the posting-address as the identifier and might need change. > > I wouldn't mind a command or an API to modify the list's posting address. > >> >> THANKS! >> -- Joel Lord

6 years

[MM3-users] Re: using SSH/TLS with external MTA

by Mark Sapiro

On 7/28/24 06:26, Roland Giesler via Mailman-users wrote: > On 2024/07/28 00:39, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >> What do you see in Mailman's smtp.log and in the mail.log on the mail >> server? > > The smtp log is in syslog... The smtp.log I refer to is Mailman's smtp.log which is in Mailman's var/logs/ directory. > I think I see what's going on here. The mail is being sent from > postorius(a)giesler.za.net and there is no log entry on > box2.gtahardware.co.za that shows this logon attempt. So it seems it's > not going to that server, but rather to the local postfix. > > A mail was sent to root on the localhost with the following content: > > Return-Path: <root(a)giesler.za.net> > X-Original-To: root@localhost > Delivered-To: root@localhost > Received: from mailman.fast.za.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) > by mailman.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2174A120A5B > for <root@localhost>; Sun, 28 Jul 2024 13:11:03 +0000 (UTC) > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Subject: [Django] ERROR (EXTERNAL IP): Internal Server Error: > /accounts/login/ > From: root(a)giesler.za.net > To: root@localhost > Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2024 13:11:03 -0000 > Message-ID: <172217226313.2150.10895652368679013629(a)mailman.fast.za.net> > > Internal Server Error: /accounts/login/ > > SMTPRecipientsRefused at /accounts/login/ > {'roland(a)giesler.za.net': (454, b'4.7.1 <roland(a)giesler.za.net>: Relay > acce= > ss denied')} This is mail from django-allauth, not from Mailman. Your settings in mailman.cfg do not affect how this mail is sent. See https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/5.0/topics/email/#smtp-backend for the Django settings for this. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

1 year, 3 months

[MM3-users] Re: How To Install Mailman 3 on Debian 10 (Complete Guide)

by Lars Schimmer

On 27/02/2021 04:02, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Lars Schimmer writes: > > > Hm, it completely ignores the standard way for Debian: > > apt-get install mailman3-full > > also exim4 as standard mailer. > > And apache2. > > Right. The idea is that Debian is a *component* of *Brian's* system, > not that Brian is installing a Debian system. One problem is that a > lot of people like to run Debian Stable, which lags our releases by > many months, sometimes a couple of years. A lot of people run a > Debian Stable system plus a couple of mission-critical apps from > source or from upstream repositories. Maybe the debian packages are old because people do not care about and use always upstream because debian packages are old? I do know lots of software projects with recent debian packages for stable, testing and unstable. Esp. in the wide use of debian based systems all over the internet. One reason to run those system is the easyness in install and the stable function of its component. Not to need to install all software from upstream because no one cares about a recent package. > It's not necessary to "keep up" to be very helpful to our users, of > course. But I think Brian's document is likely to be the "gold > standard" for a while. I understand why Abhilash wants it in the > official docs. :-) If it should be a gold standard, it should mention the default setup of a standard debian system (which is exim4, btw) and not assuming a special setup debian system. > Steve > MfG, Lars Schimmer -- ------------------------------------------------------------- TU Graz, Institut für ComputerGraphik & WissensVisualisierung Tel: +43 316 873-5405 E-Mail: l.schimmer(a)cgv.tugraz.at Fax: +43 316 873-5402 PGP-Key-ID: 0x4A9B1723

4 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Question after upgrade to mm 3.2.3 and latest postorius

by Abhilash Raj

On Sun, Aug 11, 2019, at 2:49 PM, David Krantz wrote: > Thank you for your quick reply! Comments below. > > On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 10:03 PM Abhilash Raj <maxking(a)asynchronous.in> wrote: > > I would recommend that you bump up to 3.7 for the web part too, mostly because 3.5 is now has been in security maintenance state for a while. We will drop support for 3.5 after this next release (so you do have some time :), but I fear there *could* potentially be other dependent libraries who might have dropped 3.5 support. > > > > Even though we do run CI and we'd (hopefully) know when there is a dependent library seriously breaking, but since we don't pin down versions, newer releases can cause problems. > > > > The web-server plugin I assume is mod_wsgi? > > Good information. Of course it is mod_wsgi. > > > If you use a separate wsgi server than the one embedded in web-server, you can bump versions a bit more easily. gunicorn or uwsgi are recommended options. Do note that the new version of Mailman Core also uses gunicorn now. > > That might be simpler although I probably still will have to use > apache as passthrough as there are other things on that server using > port 443 (80) and yet another server running is not what I'd like even > if wsgi is a server process anyway as I understand it. I'll consider > that and change it. Right, using a webserver for passthrough (and, serving static content) is actually recommended practice since they are more battle tested for security + load than wsgi servers. We use gunicorn + nginx for running this very list. > > > 1. The index page with all lists is not sorted in any useful way > > > although it is based on something as the order seems to be stable. > > > Prior to the upgrade the lists were sorted in alphabetical order after > > > list name which is a lot more usable for me as admin. If I click the > > > link at the bottom with "click to view all lists" I get the old > > > behaviour. > > > > This change was made so that you will see only the lists you are a member of either as a subscriber, moderator or owner. This is default when you are logged-in, but when logged-out, you will see the old view with all lists alphabetically sorted. > > That is very good. It still is strange that this view is not sorted. Noted, thanks! https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/issues/379 > > > Are you sure the migrations are there? I can see the following list on the latest git master of Postorius (all the ones after 0004_ are related to emailtemplate): > > I thought so, but it seems as if they are not. That said I have not > used django for anything else. After setting up the > django-admin-script and modifying a few paths I got it to work > correctly. The run I had made did not work although it also failed > silently. Had I been used to django I'd known that it should print > "OK" and ticked boxes for performed migrations, but I just use django > for mailman-things. I would love to have some more time and sort out some minor annoyances with Django :( This might be a great opportunity for someone with Django experience to help make it easier, I have some ideas there which should already be in the issue tracker. -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

6 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: How to identify the exact reason behind the shunting of the mails ?

by Shashikanth Komandoor

Thank you Mark, Then I will try to upgrade the version Thank you once again. On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 8:01 PM Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > On 6/18/21 6:48 AM, Shashikanth Komandoor wrote: > > Dear Mark, > > > > FYI, I observed this issue with the postfix that receives the > > mails from the previous MTA and hands it over to the mailman. But I fixed > > at postfix by upgrading it to the version postfix 3. > > > > But still Mailman is not able to understand Hindi (Indian > local > > language) in which language the display names of the email ids are there. > > > > So, now what to do at Mailman so that it can also understand > > local languages or any work around or other alternate solutions for these > > sort of cases. > > > As noted in my reply at > > https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message… > the issue is a Mailman bug which is fixed in the next release. It has to > do with the fact that the display names are RFC 2047 encoded and not the > particular encoding. > > Actually, the fix at > https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/merge_requests/841 depends on > https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/merge_requests/652 which was > released in Mailman 3.3.2. A complete patch for versions < 3.3.2 is > attached. > > -- > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- Thanks & Regards, Shashi Kanth.K 9052671936

4 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Re: Can't send emails to list users

by Rob Passalacqua

Hey Steve! Thanks for the reply. I've discovered more things that will be helpful. The users that were getting the emails were owners or list moderators of the list. The graduates list has ~2500 list members and 4 owners, which is why that one says 4 recipients. We changed nothing before it stopped working, but I discovered about an hour ago that if we change the 'default-owner-pipeline' to 'default-mailing-pipeline' in the list setting then all members start receiving the emails. This leads me to believe that there is some sort of corruption or erroneous behavior with that particular pipeline and I do not know why. now, to answer your questions: How many people are on each of the lists which exhibit this problem? we have 5 lists, 4 with ~2500 members and one with 16. all lists have the same pipeline issue. Have you checked for unsubscriptions or disabled subscriptions? Yes. All members are properly subscribed and there are no requests to approve. Are you sure all subscribed addresses have been validated by the subscribers? We don't check for that. All members get the emails if they are in the list, and we have a script that adds members and subscribes them that works well. How do you know only 3 recipients are getting the emails? because, for the test email list, the logs and the recipients showed that only 3 of the people on the list (who turned out to be the owners and/or moderators) were getting the emails. Is it the same person every time? no Is it the poster themself? no Is it a person who is also an explicit addressee yes Are they on multiple lists and only receiving one copy? no and no. if it works, they get every email we are using Microsoft exchange services, so the google thing isnt an issue.

2 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: List creation error

by Odhiambo Washington

On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 21:17, Brian Carpenter <brian_carpenter(a)emwd.com> wrote: > Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 15:36, Andreas Barth aba(a)ayous.org wrote: > > > > > > Odhiambo Washington (odhiambo(a)gmail.com) [210106 12:12]:PS: I could > probably have caused the error with some weird operation I > > > did: > > > Initially when postorius comes up, it has the domain - example.com > > > http://example.com. I am not sure > > > where it gets this. > > > > > > > > > example.com is the default domain from django. Renaming that via the > > > django (e.g. mailman3/admin/sites/site/1/change/ ) worked for me quite > > > well (without touching anything in the database by hand). > > > Hi Andi, > > I could be missing something still... > > > > At what juncture during the installation do you do this renaming? > > Where is this directory? On my setup, I have no such directory - but I > > could be missing something in the install process, maybe.. > > > > root@debian10:/opt/mailman# pwd > > /opt/mailmanroot@debian10:/opt/mailman# find . -type d -name sites > > > ./mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/jedi/third_party/django-stubs/django-stubs/contrib/sites > > ./mm/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/django/contrib/sites > > Do you find anything amiss with this HOWTO - > > https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Howto_Install_Mailman3_On_Debian10 ?? I > > find > > the guide rather straight and clear. > > That is my work in progress and thank you for the compliment. > > It's the one I am following - almost to the letter - except for the fact > > that I am using Apache+mod_wsgi+MySQL+Exim instead. > > I have configs in place by the time I run 'mailman info' portion. But > then > > again, when I run this command, I don't like what it prints because I see > > some reference to sqlite. > > Can you paste what the mailman info output is and the contents of your > mailman.cfg file? > My mailman.cfg file is below: [mailman] site_owner: odhiambo(a)gmail.com layout: here [paths.here] var_dir: /opt/mailman/mm/var [database] class: mailman.database.mysql.MySQLDatabase url: mysql+pymysql://mailman3:XXXXXXX@localhost /mailmansuite?charset=utf8&use_unicode=1 [archiver.hyperkitty] class: mailman_hyperkitty.Archiver enable: yes configuration: /opt/mailman/mm/mailman-hyperkitty.cfg [archiver.prototype] enable: yes [shell] history_file: $var_dir/history.py [mta] verp_confirmations: yes verp_personalized_deliveries: yes verp_delivery_interval: 1 incoming: mailman.mta.exim4.LMTP outgoing: mailman.mta.deliver.deliver lmtp_host: localhost smtp_host: localhost lmtp_port: 8024 smtp_port: 25 configuration: python:mailman.config.exim4 [shell] use_ipython: yes The output of `mailman info` is: mailman@debian10:~$ python3 -m venv /opt/mailman/mm/venv mailman@debian10:~$ source /opt/mailman/mm/venv/bin/activate (venv) mailman@debian10:~$ mailman info GNU Mailman 3.3.2 (Tom Sawyer) Python 3.7.3 (default, Jul 25 2020, 13:03:44) [GCC 8.3.0] config file: /opt/mailman/var/etc/mailman.cfg db url: sqlite:////opt/mailman/var/data/mailman.db *<=== I wonder why it's even referring to sqlite...* devmode: DISABLED REST root url: http://localhost:8001/3.1/ REST credentials: restadmin:restpass > > As it is, I believe my problem lies elsewhere, not possible to solve with > > your rename option. > > To get rid of example.com, I log into Django, create a new site using the > main list domain and note the site id. I then edit the settings_local.py > file and change the SITE_ID setting to the new site id of the main list > domain. You will need to restart mailman and qcluster I believe after > making that change. > I hope you will document this additional step of how to get rid of example.com. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", grep ^[^#] :-)

4 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Bug in email.generator:_handle_text? [was: store/export existing Mailman lists ...]

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Oops, premature send. I did grep through the whole mailman core code base for "del", and didn't come up with anything that looks like it would delete fields like Content-Type and Message-ID (assuming the default for anonymous_list_keep_headers, I wish I had thought to ask about that, but who changes it?) I assumed Content-Type is modified by direct assignment in handlers that delete parts or transform them to a different MIME type. I wonder if his Python is old enough to not recognize negated regexps? That should be logged in errors. Or (as you guessed), the '(?!x-)' regexp (or the whole content of anonymous_list_keep_headers) has been removed? Stephen J. Turnbull writes: > Mark Sapiro writes: > > > This apparently confuses the Python email package so that the > > get_payload() method returns a list of strings rather than a list of > > message objects. > > Yes, I got that far too. I'm guessing that in the absence of a > Content-Type, which then *should* default to text/plain, the email > package goes ahead and detects the MIME headers anyway (although I > don't think it should do that) and breaks the message into MIME > parts. I would think we'd raise an Exception here. > > If there's a reason for the email package to do that detection > (*shrug*, it seems to work), then the dispatching in _handle_text > should be done on the Python type rather than the MIME Content-Type. > > I forget exactly how the code is structured, the relevant dispatching > may be in _dispatch or in _dispatch_meth. > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ >

3 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Trouble Installing Mailman3

by Henry Hartley

> -----Original Message----- > From: Stephen J. Turnbull <steve(a)turnbull.jp> > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2025 08:17 > Subject: [MM3-users] Re: Trouble Installing Mailman3 > > Henry Hartley via Mailman-users writes: > > > This isn't doing a lot for my self-esteem. > > I don't think you need to worry about you. :-) There are dozens of moving parts > involved, each of which sets its own requirements and is continuously being > updated. And you're working in a virtual environment, which is a fragile hack. > Works well if you treat it right, but does need care. Thanks for your encouraging words. > There are two ways those two messages can be consistent: that pip's version > number parsing is buggy, or those aren't the same pip. The former explanation, > while possible, is highly unlikely. > > One common explanation for this kind of conflict is that you did part of the > installation with the venv active, and part without. I know you wrote that you > are "running as the mailman user in venv", but just to double check, does "in" > mean "current working directory is venv" or does it mean "venv is activated > with '. bin/activate'" as well? You need to activate the venv to get all of the > paths (especially to the "pip" and "python" commands) right. Here's what I mean when I say I'm doing this "in venv" I've become the mailman user: sudo su - mailman The .bashrc for that user includes: source /opt/mailman/venv/bin/activate The prompt has (venv) at the left end of it: (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ All pip commands have been run in this state. I did first install setuptools with apt install python3-setuptools and that installed version 68.1.2-2ubuntu1.2. Note that I'm still not sure the firewall is completely out of the picture, since I do have to include the --trusted-host and --proxy options. Some things install, though, so I think that's OK. When I do this at the (venv) prompt, asking to install both setuptools and mailman-web: pip install --proxy http://webproxyta.westat.com:3128 --trusted-host pypi.org setuptools mailman-web The first line of the output is: Requirement already satisfied: setuptools in ./venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages (80.9.0) And that's followed by downloading (or using a cached version) of 11 items before I get the subprocess error. > I took a look at a fairly recent install of django-haystack, and in the .dist-info it > says the installer is 'pip' rather than 'pip3'. IMO this is bad practice, even today. > One possible explanation is that somehow at an intermediate stage the install > script is picking up a Python 2 pip, and IIRC Python 2 setuptools goes only to > 58.x or 59.x. > Or if you're in a Debian environment, I seem to recall the Debian Python 3 > environment does not provide setuptools at all (and deliberately makes it hard > to install outside of a venv). > > Check if your venv bin directory has a pip executable (or symlink to the > executable). If not, adding a symlink pip -> pip3 may help. There is no Python2 on the system so I'm pretty sure it's not that. The pip being used seems to be the right one and pip and pip3 seem to be the same: (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ pwd /opt/mailman (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ which pip /opt/mailman/venv/bin/pip (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ which pip3 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/pip3 (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ pip -V pip 24.0 from /opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/pip (python 3.12) (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ pip3 -V pip 24.0 from /opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/pip (python 3.12) (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ cmp venv/bin/pip venv/bin/pip3 (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ pip cache purge Files removed: 44 (venv) mailman@wz-prd-tpmd-1:~$ /opt/mailman/venv/bin/pip install --proxy http://webproxyta.westat.com:3128 --trusted-host pypi.org setuptools mailman-web Requirement already satisfied: setuptools in ./venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages (80.9.0) Collecting mailman-web Downloading mailman_web-0.0.9-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (3.2 kB) Collecting django<4.3,>=4.0 (from mailman-web) Downloading django-4.2.23-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (4.2 kB) Collecting hyperkitty (from mailman-web) Downloading hyperkitty-1.3.12-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (3.6 kB) Collecting postorius (from mailman-web) Downloading postorius-1.3.13-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (2.9 kB) Collecting whoosh (from mailman-web) Downloading Whoosh-2.7.4-py2.py3-none-any.whl.metadata (3.1 kB) Collecting asgiref<4,>=3.6.0 (from django<4.3,>=4.0->mailman-web) Downloading asgiref-3.8.1-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (9.3 kB) Collecting sqlparse>=0.3.1 (from django<4.3,>=4.0->mailman-web) Downloading sqlparse-0.5.3-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (3.9 kB) Collecting django-compressor>=1.3 (from hyperkitty->mailman-web) Downloading django_compressor-4.5.1-py2.py3-none-any.whl.metadata (5.0 kB) Collecting django-extensions>=1.3.7 (from hyperkitty->mailman-web) Downloading django_extensions-4.1-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (6.1 kB) Collecting django-gravatar2>=1.0.6 (from hyperkitty->mailman-web) Downloading django_gravatar2-1.4.5-py2.py3-none-any.whl.metadata (4.3 kB) Collecting django-haystack>=2.8.0 (from hyperkitty->mailman-web) Downloading django_haystack-3.3.0.tar.gz (467 kB) ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━ 467.3/467.3 kB 22.3 MB/s eta 0:00:00 Installing build dependencies ... error error: subprocess-exited-with-error × pip subprocess to install build dependencies did not run successfully. │ exit code: 1 ╰─> [2 lines of output] ERROR: Could not find a version that satisfies the requirement setuptools>=61.2 (from versions: none) ERROR: No matching distribution found for setuptools>=61.2 [end of output] note: This error originates from a subprocess, and is likely not a problem with pip. error: subprocess-exited-with-error × pip subprocess to install build dependencies did not run successfully. │ exit code: 1 ╰─> See above for output. note: This error originates from a subprocess, and is likely not a problem with pip. -- Henry

4 months, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Fwd: Re: Removing a mail addresses and users

by Abhilash Raj

On Wed, Jun 10, 2020, at 3:33 PM, Allan Hansen wrote: > All, > > This disconnect between Mailman Core and Django and Postorius is, by > far, the weakest and, for subscribers, most confusing aspect of MM3 > (once it has been installed, which is extremely hard and confusing). The disconnect was intentional to make sure that we are fully able to leverage the power of Django's ability to run multiple dis-connected applications in a single Site and Account system. And Mailman Core was intentionally designed to not be an account management system so it can be kept simple. The disconnect however has caused more confusion than has helped, which we acknowledge. But this disconnect doesn't exist all that much right now, barring any bugs. We synchronize most of the state from Postorius down to Mailman Core including, any additional addresses that you add, primary address etc. Display Names don't trigger an update in Core, but it isn't that hard to do if you open a ticket. > > In a true account-centric system, you set up a web account and from > there manage your emails and, for each email, your subscriptions. > Subscription options would be hierarchical: account/email/list, with > lower levels inheriting/overriding settings from/the level above. You are able to sign in via web and manage your email and subscriptions. The preferences also work exactly how you described above where the lower level override the default and/or upper level settings. > > That’s really what I had expected when I pushed for us to move our 50 > email lists to MM3 and I was very excited about the prospect, > as it would solve a lot of system/subscriber management issues I had > managing MM2. > > Alas, I was very surprised that that’s not how MM3 works. Some things > got harder, even, such as the inability to change subscription > addresses, which should have been a showstopper from the start! > I still hope that MMxx OOTB will get there, but I guess it’ll be along > haul. Would we be talking about MM4 to be released 20 years from now? As a Subscriber, you are able to do switch emails in subscriptions from your options page. The URL to which is displayed in the List's Summary page when you are logged in. Yes, it requires an approval if the list's settings are set to moderate but that is going to be fixed, see this issue[1]. It is quite simple IMO to fix this one, if someone wants to take this up. [1]: https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/issues/425 Are you asking about switching emails as an administrator for your subscribers? > Some dedicated and skilled developers are currently investing heavily > in a replacement for Postorius, but I really believe that any work is > better spent transforming Mailman Core etc. into a true account-based > system. Then, and only then, will it make sense to build new and better > interfaces on top, as, without a healthy core, such interface will > currently may have to inherit the confusion and disconnect that > currently is so aggravating. I don't know if we want to add account management to Core, but User management is missing from Postorius, that is true. We punted on it and delegated that part to Django's admin interface. Long long time ago, I remember seeing that there was a User's tab for managing users, but that has since changed I think. If you and some others on this list would like to propose an RFC here[2], it would be a great help for me. What I am basically looking for is what kind of "User management" are administrators looking for. It doesn't have to be too detailed but a single line example would be: - As a Admin, I would like to delete a User completely from my system, including all their addresses and subscription - Also, it would be good to delete their account but retain their subscriptions - As a Admin, I would like to update User's attributes in the system like: - Manually verify their email address - Manually update their Name - As a User, I would like to delete my own account and all the subscriptions. Maybe this could be a starting point, but something like this can be added to Postorius. [2]: https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/issues/new As for the question in this thread, you are able to delete the User from Django's admin page and that would delete all the related EmailAddress for them. Deleting an Email address doesn't delete the User, since the relationship exists that User owns Emails. There is currently no way to delete all the subscriptions for a User though. > The above is not meant to aggravate the MM3 development team, for which > I have utmost respect and gratitude, and which I admire for their > tireless support given over decades to the community of admins. > Software development is devilishly hard and time consuming. And thank you for posting what you think is an important enhancement to Postorius. We don't have a very strict process to choose what new features to work on, so email like this do help us prioritize. Other users could also help by upvoting or just adding "+1" to the bugs/feature enhancements that affects them the most so we can fix them sooner rather than later. I would be more than happy if more people participated in just being able to prioritize features, all the work really happens in the open on Gitlab. As administrators of some 'open source' lists, the needs of us as admins are somewhat different from what would be in a closed organization and ability to kick someone completely out of the system is something never I had to do since folks are supposed to manage their own subscriptions. We do ban people from sending emails if they've been spamming, but that is a different thing, they are still able to login into Postorius AFAIK. > Yours, > > Allan Hansen > hansen(a)rc.org > > > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > > From: Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> > > Subject: [MM3-users] Re: Removing a mail addresses and users > > Date: June 10, 2020 at 12:46:01 PDT > > To: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > > > On 6/10/20 10:23 AM, Abhijith PA via Mailman-users wrote: > >> Hello. > >> > >> I tried to remove random email address signing ups (which I signed up > >> while testing) via admin panel. After removing I tried to sign up again, > >> but I am getting, > >> > >> 'A user is already registered with this e-mail address' > > > > You removed the user's subscription from the list, but you didn't remove > > the user from the system. > > > > Mailman3 has a concept of `user` which didn't exist in Mailman 2.1. > > User's have addresses and a user or one of the user's addresses can > > belong to a list with one or more roles (non-member, member, moderator > > or owner) > > > > > >> Combing through the database, I found auth_user table in mailman3web db > >> still contain those mail address. How to wipe email address entirely > >> from the db so I can signup again without the 'forget password' method > > > > There are a couple of things. If you log in to the web UI as a django > > superuser, you can go to the django admin UI -> Users section and delete > > the User, but I think that will only delete the web user and not delete > > the user from Mailman core. > > > > You can also log in to the web UI as the user and go to > > <https://lists.mailman3.org/user-profile/delete>, but that again only > > deletes the web user, and if you could do that, you could just subscribe > > once you're logged in, so I assume that's what you want to avoid. > > > > I don't think there is a way for a user as opposed to a site admin to > > delete her user record from Mailman core and even for a site admin, > > there's no way in Postorius to delete a user from core. It has to be > > done via REST > > <https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/rest/docs/…> > > or `mailman shell`. > > > > -- > > Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, > > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)

5 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] Filter response from Mailman3 held messages queue.

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Andy Matthews writes: > I've found some libraries which can parse the message property and > extract the relevant bits, but I'd rather pass some sort of flag or > filter to the initial Mailman 3 API call and get back less > information. Before I express my opinion, note that I am not authoritative on this, but I have a decent record on channeling the consensus. So YMMV FWIW I'd be against putting such a thing into the core without a lot of beta testing, I think. I imagine there would be various opinions on how much less and which data should come back. There is a plugin architecture which specifically can be used to implement REST routes: https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/plugins/do… While doing it this way undoubtedly makes it more complicated for the initial implementer, I think it would be a lot simpler (more self-contained) for people who want to implement different filters, etc. > I've looked through the documentation but I'm not finding anything > of the sort. I don't think there is for this, although there's a certain amount of code for filtering the messages that are being processed (stripping attachments of specified MIME types, converting text/html to text/plain, etc). I'm not sure if that's done in advance of holding for moderation. So maybe it would be OK to repurpose that code to your end (though I'd want it to be a proper refactoring, not cargo culting the post distribution filter into the moderation code), and somebody would need to do the same for Postorius. Not necessarily you (I infer you're talking about a separate application that talks to Mailman core for moderation), but availability to Postorius users with common administrative UI would make it a lot more attractive to us.

9 months, 1 week

[MM3-users] Re: Moderator e-mails only going out once a day

by Stephen J. Turnbull

jkoral(a)luc.edu writes: > Looking at the queues, I see 27 .pck files under shunt from Nov > 14th. Could that be the issue why moderators are not getting their > e-mails right away? No. That is way too old to be the cause of the current moderation issue. Presumably that occurred either at time of upgrade due to some initial misconfiguration, or during a period of network glitching, or possibly it's a spate of spam. The paranoid thing to do with those messages is use "mailman qfile <file>" to examine them, delete any that are unneeded, and use "mailman unshunt" to send the rest (possibly with a separate message from you to subscribers explaining why old messages are suddenly appearing). But you could just assume they're obsolete and delete them. I use cd /path/to/queue/shunt for file in *.pck; do mailman qfile $file | less; done and take notes of which to delete in such situations. > Can I clear the queue by just deleting these files? No. You should *never* delete files in shunt or bad in hopes of resolving an issue. Translated into English, "shunt" is Mailman telling you "as far as Mailman can tell, these messages should be deliverable but something is going wrong, and I need your help to get them sent". Implied is "if *you* don't fix the 'something' for me, it will happen again and I will shunt again." It was worth a try to look at shunt, but unless something very weird is happening to file timestamps, those aren't your missing notifications. I wonder if *owners* get immediate notifications if they are not listed as *moderators*. I seem to recall that they didn't (but maybe I'm imagining things). I don't have time to check right now. Steve

7 months, 1 week

[MM3-users] Re: spanish localization

by Victoriano Giralt

On Fri, 2021-02-12 at 19:53 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Victoriano Giralt writes: > > > Mark, I'd say the Mailman core message files taht get installed by > > pip are "a bit outdated" (source files dates point to a nightly > > build) ... proof here: > > I don't understand what you think this proves. We can't do the > translations ourselves; we don't have the lingistic skills. So the > dates on the .po files are going to reflect translator activity as > well as core dev activity. Am I missing something that we can do > something about? Thanks Stephen for reminding me that sometimes I write what looks like proper English on the surface, but the meaning of it comes from the deep corners of my mind in some long forgotten dialect :-) I just wanted to make visible that the .mo files were a "bit old". For example, Guillermo, in this thread, pointed that the Spanish translation was quite compelte. Actualy, I spent some hours bringing them to 100% around Christmas. But, the .mo file for es from the pip install --update i did recently is dated November 7th. I have definitely added a lot of translated material from then until the end of the year. I know the translation happens outside the development community. I tried to point that there might be some synchronisation problem, so to say, between the translation site and the packaging of the latest mailman release. I hope this time I've managed to express myself better ;-) I swear my brain was thinking in English as a wrote :-) :-) -- Victoriano Giralt Innovation Director Digital Transformation Vicerectorate University of Malaga +34952131415 SPAIN ================================================================== Note: signature.asc is the electronic signature of present message A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure ? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email ?

4 years, 8 months

[MM3-users] Re: Some doc updates from Fedora install experience

by tlhackque

On 26-Jun-17 15:31, Abhilash Raj wrote: > Excerpts from tlhackque--- via Mailman-users's message of June 24, > 2017 4:21 am: >> I had to read code to discover that the web UI (Postorious) server >> address doesn't exist in any config file. > > That is True, there is no stright forward way for Mailman Core to know > who is > using the API and where is the Web UI working. I *think* "Web Host" is > used to > generate emails, but that can't always be completely accurate because > there is > no easy way to know what is the "root" url for Postorius and > Hyperkitty. Generally, the default configurations place it at > "/postorius/" and > "/hyperkitty/", but there are installations where it is placed at > "/mailman3/" > and "/archives/". > It would be helpful for API users to "register" with Mailman, so that API clients can figure out how to direct users to their web pages. There has to be a directory somewhere, and Mailman is the central character. It doesn't have to be one place. Perhaps something like "get( '/lists/config/admin_ui') and get('/lists/config/subscriber_ui") - which could return something like: [ {"type":"gui", "name":"postorius", "uri":"https://www.example.net/mailman3/"}, {"type":"cli","name":"mailmanclient","uri":"domain://my.socket.example.net:1234"},{"type":"gui","name":"mailmanx","uri":"file:///usr/sbin/mailman-Tk"}, ...] (Where the order indicates preference). Speaking of which, without this knowledge, how can Mailman provide the personalized "to unsubscribe, visit your account at "...." customizations"? I see that there are URLs for headers/footers, but we seem to have lost the ability to insert the URL for the GUI managing your list/account into personalized e-mails... >> >> To bind it to something other than localhost, you put the desired ip >> address & port on the >> >> `python manage.py runserver` command line (in mailman-suite_project. > > Ok, so you should never use this in production. AGREEED > This command starts a > "development" server which is only supposed to be used in the development > environment. My development environment is a VM for Mailman, and other VMs for the mail server. And if I try to run a web browser on the Mailman VM, it takes over the machine and even so is unresponsive. So I needed to make the UI visible on the network where my PC is. I do understand the issues, and there are firewalls protecting the environment. > For any production use, in general for any python web app, we use a > wsgi server which interfaces between Django and a "real" web server > like Nginx > or Apache. I would recommend using uwsgi. This[1] and [2] might be of > help. > AGREE. I know that I will have to do this eventually. But my immediate goal is to see if it's possible to get my application talking to Mailman V3 - it's a 1-user environment. So I needed an evaluation environment with the absolute minimum setup costs. If things work out, I'll do the right thing. If not, I can't afford to have spent a week or so untangling nested webservers talking to each-other with frameworks, a half-dozen passwords and config files. This was the quickest path I could find to an 'almost out-of-the-box' evaluation and prototyping environment...and pretty much the only "step-by-step" instructions that I could find. I'd have tried "step-by-step" for production if (a) I could find it and (b) I could configure it with less than a couple of days of study :-( I decided to document this in case it helps someone else. I strongly agree that it's not production, and not for all users. > There is some configuration over here[3] that might help you get it > running. You > would have to change some parameters in the configuration though. > >> >> It must be an IP address - it doesn't resolve DNS names. The port is >> appended to the IP address with a ':'. >> >> So, in venv 2.7 >> `cd mailman-suite_project && python manage.py runserver >> 10.0.0.11:8000` will work. >> >> There are all sorts of issues if your network is at all public, but >> in my >> case, a multi-machine walled garden, with no local web browser, it >> allowed >> bootstrapping to continue. > > It is not supposed to be public and should only be used for development. > Agree, agree, agree. >> >> The runserver command also takes --ipv6 (or -6) to bind to an IPv6 >> address, >> --nothreading and --noreload also exist (but i haven't tracked down >> whethere >> they're useful') > > There are a whole lot of other optins available to `python manage.py` > command > which you can find in the documentation for Django. Truth be told, I had no idea that 'runserver" had anything to do with Django. I was just following instructions to get something out of the box and onto the wire. FWIW, 'python manage.py --help' and 'python manage.py help runserver' are semi-intructive. I still have no clue what an "auto-reloader" is, but the help does say that --noreload won't use it :-) It's clear that a lot of work has gone into this release -- but it's also quite frustrating for people who just want to explore using it to get through the setup effort. I've made some progress. > -- > thanks, > Abhilash Raj

8 years, 4 months

[MM3-users] About mailing list configuration problem

by Stephen J. Turnbull

liutianhua68(a)163.com writes: > 1. When a user subscribes, how to configure it like > "lists.mailman3.org" to send a link to confirm the subscription > instead of just replying to the confirmation email. Not sure what you mean. mailman3.org lists are just configured with a standard setting, may even be default: in the settings tab, member policy page, set subscriber policy to "confirm". They can reply to the email address or use a link in the email. > 2. I used the mailling list I created to test the sending and > receiving of emails, but I didn't see any historical messages in > "Archives",Where is the configuration incorrect? What do you mean by "historical messages"? Do you mean the test messages? The information is insufficient for a confident diagnosis, but I would guess that you have not configured the mailman-hyperkitty add on, which is a few lines of Python code that Mailman core needs to send messages to the HyperKitty archiver. > And the url of my mailing list is "https://list.example.org/hyperkitty/list/" > instead of "https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/", is this > a problem? No. The documentation and the defaults are not entirely consistent on this. Both work, some sites prefer one, some the other. I think that in fact you can make both work with a couple of lines of Python in the Django configuration. > Also ask about the configuration, where to find the relevant > documentation. There's not a lot of separate documentation. The explanations in each settings page are the main documentation. The idea is that list administrators should go through all the settings anyway, to make sure that the defaults are satisfactory for their lists, or change them. In the summer we plan to work on a feature that makes it easier for a list administrator to copy from one list to another.

3 years, 6 months

[MM3-users] Re: Auth question

by David Krantz

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 1:06 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > To be more specific, the projects that are required for a fully > functioning Mailman installation with Postorius and Hyperkitty are > > Mailman (the core) > > Hyperkitty (the archiver) > > Postorius (the web list management UI) > > django-mailman3 (common django things used by Postorius and Hyperkitty) > > MailmanClient (python bindings for the core REST API used by Postorius > and Hyperkitty) > > HyperKitty - Mailman plugin (plugin for the core to communicate with > Hyperkitty) > I tried to upgrade today. The result is a broken install which fails when trying to upgrade the database. $> ./bin/mailman-post-update [...] File "/opt/mailman/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.17-py2.7.egg/django/db/backends/base/base.py", line 236, in _commit return self.connection.commit() File "/opt/mailman/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.17-py2.7.egg/django/db/utils.py", line 94, in __exit__ six.reraise(dj_exc_type, dj_exc_value, traceback) File "/opt/mailman/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.17-py2.7.egg/django/db/backends/base/base.py", line 236, in _commit return self.connection.commit() django.db.utils.IntegrityError: update or delete on table "auth_user" violates foreign key constraint "social_auth_usersocial_user_id_193b2d80880502b2_fk_auth_user_id" on table "social_auth_usersocialauth" DETAIL: Key (id)=(3) is still referenced from table "social_auth_usersocialauth". I have tried to drop and recreate the databases but I get the above result anyway. The description in https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%203%20installation%20experience is very hazy. The process of symlinking in libraries is fiddly to say the least. I get mailman to start but not any web interface. I have not tested mailman so if it works rather than just start I do not know. There is a description for a clean install for development at http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/devsetup.html, but I suspect that it isn't usable for anything other than development. I have read it parallell to try to interpret the installation experience description which in turn describes more of what I am trying to do. No luck though. regards // David

8 years, 7 months

[MM3-users] Re: Strange issue with bounce processing

by Mark Sapiro

On 12/25/20 6:36 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote: > Dear List, > > First of all Merry Christmas to those of you that are observing it. > > I have an issue on one of my Mailman 3 servers. The bounce runner is not > running, even after restarting mailman core. All the other runners are > working fine. Here is the problem, after restarting it, a number of > messages show up in queue/bounces from a single list. What happens if instead of restating core, you stop and then start it? > However the bounce > runner is still not running. So I remove these messages from > queue/bounces folder and restart mailman core. The same messages show up > from the same single list again in queue/bounces. In the > var/logs/bounce.log file, addresses from this list are being logged as > being removed after starting mailman core. They correlate with the > messages showing up in queue/bounces. Bounce runner doesn't actually do much with received/queued bounces. It just gets the bounce and stores a bounce event in in the bounceevent table in the database. It then periodically processes the unprocessed events in the bounceevent table. See <https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/model/docs…>. > I assume these "cached" bounces are what is interfering with the running > of the bounce runner. I don't see anything in the mailman or > mailmansuite log that would explain this behavior. How can I fix this? I don't really understand what's going on. The only messages which get queued in queue/bounces/ are messages to the LIST-bounces address delivered from the MTA, unless possibly they are somehow in queue/retry/ and being retried. What do you see in the MTA logs? -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Re: migration plan and auto responder

by Mohsen Masoudfar

Hi, The short version of this question is: How May I setup on Mailman2 to send an auto response to the member who sent an email to the list, but do not send the original email to any list member? I need this functionality during and after migrating the list to a new list server, where the domain name has to be changed. The auto response should inform the list member, who sent the email to the old list, about the name of the new server and domain. Thanks Mohsen -----Original Message----- From: Mohsen Masoudfar <mmasoudf(a)aaas.org> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 12:30 PM To: mailman-users(a)mailman3.org Subject: [MM3-users] migration plan and auto responder [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Hi, I am writing this in the hope to get some good advises for migration lists from Mailman2 to Mailman3. Thanks a lot in advance. Here is the requirements: * During the migration the old system shouldn't process the emails for the list under migration in the normal way. It should send an email, and only one to the member who sent the original email to the list saying the list is under migration. I know I could do this by auto responder, but the original email would be processed and sent to all members, which I want to block . * After migration the old system should send, per auto responder again, an email to the member who sent to the list, mentioning the new address (the domain is a new one, the list name the same), but again not sending the original email to the list members. * No hackers, robots, spammers should get the new list address. The lists are all hidden. Best regards Mohsen Masoudfar Lead System Analyst, IT Operation American Association for the Advancement of Science 1200 New York Ave, NW, Washington, DC 20005 202-326-7087 _______________________________________________ Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.mai…

5 years, 3 months

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