Allan - If this is a django standard form, based on the user's preferences model, then I can see why it's originally designed this way.

Any application or website that I've ever used, has default preferences that the user can then override.   Rather than leaving the preferences blank.   IMHO.

Displaying the defaults might not be that easy, if the whole form is totally being auto-generated by django. Populating the defaults when a person subscribes, might be easier.   But I'll take a look.  - Mark

On 5/20/2023 1:52 AM, Allan Hansen wrote:

MRL,

I agree that this is misleading and confusing. My list members often complain to me about it. The proper way to handle this kind of inheritance is to inform the user what the default is and allow him/her to set or remove an override.

Yours,

Allan

On 5/18/23, 14:52, "mrl--- via Mailman-users" mailto:mailman-users@mailman3.org> wrote:

When I subscribe to a mailing list, and I don't manually select some of the "Subscription options", they are left unselected when I go back to look at them. I would have thought that if I didn't make a selection, that they would be set to a default option. Or am I wrong? Thanks.

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On 5/31/23 15:41, Mark London wrote:

So instead I added  the following line to the web page.  Which is displayed on other options setting web pages, but is not displayed when you click "Manage Options" for a specific mailing list.   I added this, to the file list_options.html:

 <p>{% trans 'Any options displayed as not set here, inherit at runtime from your global preferences (viewable on other tab)' %}</p> <hr />

More correctly it should say "Any options showing as not set inherit at runtime from your global or address specific preferences (viewable on other tabs)" as it says, e.g., at https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/accounts/per-subscription-preferences/.

Although I had to fix the wording, as elsewhere it says: "Any options showing as not set here have inherit at runtime.."

That's been fixed. See https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/merge_requests/810

-- Mark Sapiro mark@msapiro.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

Hi Mark,

I agree that there's more to this than meets the eye. For my users it's important to see what the option is that is currently active, because the information is missing on the page.

Some of the options have a menu of options and if the option it inherited, it shows: "-----" This inheritance should, instead, show: "Inherit (Enabled)." If the user wants to override, one of the other options can be chosen.

Other preferences use buttons with "Yes" and "No" options. Here, too, another option can be "Inherited (Yes)" as before, always indicating what the option was that was inherited, if so. Currently, there is no way to undo an override for these options: Once you override an option, you cannot set it back to inherited.

On the page for Address-based preferences, the options could be similarly displayed, but this time just showing "Inherited from Global Mailman preferences," of course.

On the 'Global Mailman settings' page, it may be useful to mention that these settings are used as defaults for the 'Address-based preferences' page. And add on the 'Address-based preferences' page that the settings are used as defaults for the 'List-based preferences' page.

This will all help users come to understand that great power they have over their options.

Yours,

Allan

On 5/31/23, 15:43, "Mark London" mailto:mrl@psfc.mit.edu> wrote:

Allan - I initially wanted to fix the subscription options display, to show the default list options. But I then discovered that there are default user settings, default address based settings, in addition to the list default settings. Nice features, but too complicated for our users.

So instead I added the following line to the web page. Which is displayed on other options setting web pages, but is not displayed when you click "Manage Options" for a specific mailing list. I added this, to the file list_options.html:

<p>{% trans 'Any options displayed as not set here, inherit at runtime from your global preferences (viewable on other tab)' %}</p> <hr />

Although I had to fix the wording, as elsewhere it says: "Any options showing as not set here have inherit at runtime.."

For me this is good enough for now. I've spent too much time making other modifications to suit myself. Including changing the thin font, removing "muted coloring" of help lines, etc, etc. I probably will revisit the options settings in the future, after I've brushed up on django form coding! - Mark

On 5/20/2023 1:52 AM, Allan Hansen wrote:

MRL,

I agree that this is misleading and confusing. My list members often complain to me about it. The proper way to handle this kind of inheritance is to inform the user what the default is and allow him/her to set or remove an override.

Yours,

Allan

On 5/18/23, 14:52, "mrl--- via Mailman-users" mailto:mailman-users@mailman3.org mailto:mailman-users@mailman3.org>> wrote:

When I subscribe to a mailing list, and I don't manually select some of the "Subscription options", they are left unselected when I go back to look at them. I would have thought that if I didn't make a selection, that they would be set to a default option. Or am I wrong? Thanks.

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