Search results for "Cannot connect to SMTP server"

[MM3-users] Re: mail stuck in "out" queue

by Mark Sapiro

On 12/17/24 16:58, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > You say you have removed the var/templates/list/LIST_ID/* templates, but > is there still a var/templates/list/ and a var/templates/list/LIST_ID/ > directory and are they searchable by the Mailman user? > Another indication of this issue is a log message in mailman.log saying Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on port 25 or whatever the smtp_host: and smtp_port: settings are. This (misleading) message will appear only once at the time of the first post to the problem list or just following a restart of Mailman. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

10 months, 2 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Bulk changes to delivery mode and moderation action

by David Newman

On 1/7/22 4:32 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 1/7/22 3:41 PM, David Newman wrote: >> >> There are 24 messages in the shunt queue, the most recent of which is >> a digest from 0000 hours today. The test messages I sent later today >> are not there. >> >> There are also 13 messages in the out queue. I can't read these as the >> filenames appear to change on every invocation of ls. > > > I suspect an issue trying to connect to the MTA to send the messages. > This can be caused by permission errors. Check permissions on Mailman's > var/templates/* Bingo. This list had regular and digest footer templates with 0644 permissions owned by root:root, and there was an exception and traceback for the most recent message in shunt about the permissions issue. I've changed ownership to mailman:mailman and restarted the mailman3 service. As soon as I fixed this, my inbox filled with test messages... > >>> Are there errors and tracebacks in var/logs/mailman.log? > > > Every message in the shunt queue should have an exception and traceback > logged in mailman.log. > > >> But the Postfix log doesn't show it being distributed to me or anyone >> else. > > > Is there a 'Cannot connect to SMTP server ... on port ...' anywhere in > mailman.log? Yes, lots. This might or might not be a different issue. As I mentioned earlier, the most recent message in shunt was from 0000 hours today. There are many "Cannot connect" messages since then, but none since fixing the issue above. > > >> Oddly, neither of the two list owner emails (me and someone else) show >> this message in the archive via the admin panel. However if I log in >> as the list owner directly to the archives: > > >> https://lists.domain.tld/archives/ >> >> I can see today's test posts if logged in as the list member, but do >> not see the posts if logged directly into the archive as the Django >> superuser. > > > That seems strange, I don't know why the superuser would not be able to > see things in the archive that a list owner or member can. Seems OK now. The superuser sees all posts after the unshunt action. Thanks very much for your help with this. dn > > >> The nondelivery of list mail is more serious than the archive problem, >> though. > > > Archiving is separate from delivery. messages can be archived and still > fail delivery in the out runner which is what's happening here. The > question is why? > > I suspect you have one or more 'Cannot connect to SMTP server ... on > port ...' messages in mailman.log? and I suspect this is a misleading > issue in this case caused by an inability to read some file in Mailman's > var/templates/lists/<list_id>/en directory. > > I also suspect the shunted messages are from some prior condition which > has possibly been fixed, but I can't be sure without exceptions and > tracebacks from mailman.log (should be timestamped the same as the mod > time if the shunted file). You can view them with `mailman qfile` and > unshunt (reprocess) them with `mailman unshunt`. >

3 years, 9 months

[MM3-users] Re: Emailing a list from the list server

by Mark Dadgar

On Jun 1, 2020, at 11:45 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > On 6/1/20 10:02 AM, Mark Dadgar wrote: >> >> I cannot email a list from an account on the list server itself (for example, programmatically by script, but also manually) using mail / mailx / mutt / etc from the command line. The emails just disappear into the ether. > > > What's in Postfix's mail.log? Jun 1 11:54:55 mail postfix/lmtp[238922]: 1F42613BEB5: to=<test3(a)pdc-racing.net>, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1]:8024, delay=0.04, delays=0.02/0.01/0/0.02, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 Ok) smtp.log: Jun 01 11:54:55 2020 (238852) Peer: ('127.0.0.1', 53402) Jun 01 11:54:55 2020 (238852) ('127.0.0.1', 53402) handling connection Jun 01 11:54:55 2020 (238852) ('127.0.0.1', 53402) Data: b'LHLO mail.pdc-racing.net' Jun 01 11:54:55 2020 (238852) ('127.0.0.1', 53402) Data: b'MAIL FROM:<mark(a)pdc-racing.net>' Jun 01 11:54:55 2020 (238852) ('127.0.0.1', 53402) sender: mark(a)pdc-racing.net Jun 01 11:54:55 2020 (238852) ('127.0.0.1', 53402) Data: b'RCPT TO:<test3(a)pdc-racing.net>' Jun 01 11:54:55 2020 (238852) ('127.0.0.1', 53402) recip: test3(a)pdc-racing.net Jun 01 11:54:55 2020 (238852) ('127.0.0.1', 53402) Data: b'DATA' Jun 01 11:54:55 2020 (238852) ('127.0.0.1', 53402) Data: b'QUIT' Jun 01 11:54:55 2020 (238852) ('127.0.0.1', 53402) connection lost Jun 01 11:54:55 2020 (238852) Connection lost during _handle_client() Test3 is a working mailman3 list. There are no posts held for moderation. - Mark ----- mark(a)pdc-racing.net | 408-348-2878

5 years, 5 months

[MM3-users] Re: signup / registration error - permissions and cert chains

by David Newman

On Dec 31, 2021, at 03:43, Victoriano Giralt <victoriano(a)uma.es> wrote: > > El viernes, 31 de diciembre de 2021 1:48:38 (CET) David Newman escribió: >> I'd like for regular (non-admin) list subscribers to be able to manage >> their subscription preferences and view list archives. > > That's a good way to go :-) > > My response is more of a (very) old sysadmin and Django user (since 2008) > hunch that a proper one based on code and documentation review, but I've been > trying to contribute several times and always (super) Mark Sapiro beats me :-) > >> If I'm reading the error correctly, this is related to an inability to >> verify the cert chain. The /etc/mailman3/settings.py file points to the >> same cert and key files used by Nginx, Postfix, and Dovecot. > > You are right in your diagnose but not in your interpretation (see my comment > below inside the traceback). It is certificate related, but not for server > TLS, but for CLIENT authentication. > > >> EMAIL_BACKEND = 'django.core.mail.backends.smtp.EmailBackend' >> EMAIL_HOST = 'localhost' >> EMAIL_PORT = 25 >> EMAIL_HOST_USER = 'dnewman(a)networktest.com' >> EMAIL_HOST_PASSWORD = 'wouldnt-you-like-to-know' >> EMAIL_USE_TLS = 'True' >> EMAIL_SSL_CERTFILE = '/etc/ssl/certs/myhost.crt' >> EMAIL_SSL_KEYFILE = '/etc/ssl/private/myhost.key' > > All these settings above are used for SENDING messages and, if I'm not > mistaken, the SSL key and cert are used for authenticating the user sending > the email. Actually, using TLS and SMTP Auth for localhost is a bit too much. > I've been configuring SMTP servers since 1990 and my mail servers just accept > mail form localhost, if they are broken into, the user and password have > already been exposed :-) > >> But this might only be for email, not Postorius/Django. > > You are right (if I also am) > >> What additional configuration is needed to allow regular users to create >> and manage their own accounts? > > I'd say that is more what is not needed (the SMTP TLS authentication) > > I'll remove the "noise". These are the tell tale lines: > >> "/opt/mailman/venv/lib/python3.9/site-packages/django/core/mail/backends/smt >> p.py", line 67, in open >> self.connection.starttls(keyfile=self.ssl_keyfile, >> certfile=self.ssl_certfile) > > The SMTP Django backend is trying to connect to the mail server to send the > Mailman account confirmation message and failing, probably because the user > Django runs as cannot open the private key (which is a very sensible thing if > that private key is the one used for the web facing TLS certificate, I can > tell you how bad in private or search for my name, wasd, apache and VMS ;-)) > > That certificate is not needed for sending email from Django, and, as I said, > not even SMTP Auth for sending via localhost. Actually, doing SMTP Auth on > port 25 is not even recommended practice. Hi Victoriano, Thanks for this. I could use some clarification on what specific changes you are suggesting. I *think* you are saying to remove the EMAIL_USE_TLS stuff and also move to another port (maybe 587), but I am not sure. Also, the reason I added the TLS in the first place was that I was getting errors without it. And I am unclear why the cert / private key pair do not work for Django when they do work OK for Postfix, Nginx, and Dovecot. Thanks for clarifying — and happy and safe 2022 to you as well! dn > > Happy, healthy, safe and well ventilated New Year to all. > > -- > Victoriano Giralt Innovation Director > Digital Transformation Vicerectorate University of Malaga > +34952131415 SPAIN > ================================================================== > Note: signature.asc is the electronic signature of present message > A: Yes. >> Q: Are you sure ? >>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email ? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users(a)mailman3.org > To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave(a)mailman3.org > https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/

3 years, 10 months

[MM3-users] Migrated from MM2 to MM3, all is well except *one* list

by Scott Courtney

Hello, all I have migrated a multi-list server from MM2 to MM3, on Debian 11, and migrated about half a dozen lists with fairly large archives. Absolutely everything has been working for a couple of months, but I am still unable to get one specific list to send mail to its subscribers. Of course, the first place I started was the logs, but that's the problem -- even with logging turned up, it appears to be failing silently as it connects to the MTA. Here's a summary of the environment: OS: Debian Linux 11, 64-bit, on a virtual machine MTA: Exim 4.94.2 List server: Mailman 3.3.3 (installed from Debian repo) Database: MariaDB 10.5.15 All daemons are running on the same host, and communication is either UNIX socket or loopback network interface, for security. Web server: Apache 2.4.53, with proxy to WSGI per the MM3 setup guide Symptom: There are six lists on the server. All six can accept inbound traffic and will post the messages to the (always private, in this environment) archives. The web interface is working perfectly. Five of the lists also can send out messages to subscribers, but the sixth list cannot send traffic to the MTA, or is not attempting to do so. Tests run so far (all resulting in successful posting to archives, but no outbound mail): * Originate mail from inbound SMTP to the list address. * Originate mail from the web UI as a member/moderator. * Originate mail from the web UI as the site admin (also the list owner). * Originate mail from both inbound SMTP and web UI by multiple users. Log data for the inbound traffic (typical test message, some data redacted): 2022-08-27 15:11:57 1oS1Dn-003AWH-Hz <= REDACTED H=REDACTED:25 P=esmtps X=TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA256__AES_128_GCM:128 CV=no K S=2552 DKIM=REDACTED id=REDACTED T="TEST 8.27.001" 2022-08-27 15:11:57 1oS1Dn-003AWH-Hz => MY_LIST(a)lists.MY_DOMAIN R=mailman_main_director T=mailman3_transport H=127.0.0.1 [127.0.0.1] I=[127.0.0.1] C="250 Ok" 2022-08-27 15:11:57 1oS1Dn-003AWH-Hz Completed Log data for MM3 smtp.log (again, partially redacted): Aug 27 15:11:57 2022 (690182) Available AUTH mechanisms: LOGIN(builtin) PLAIN(builtin) Aug 27 15:11:57 2022 (690182) Peer: ('127.0.0.1', 48170) Aug 27 15:11:57 2022 (690182) ('127.0.0.1', 48170) handling connection Aug 27 15:11:57 2022 (690182) ('127.0.0.1', 48170) Data: b'LHLO REDACTED' Aug 27 15:11:57 2022 (690182) ('127.0.0.1', 48170) Data: b'MAIL FROM:<REDACTED>' Aug 27 15:11:57 2022 (690182) ('127.0.0.1', 48170) sender: REDACTED Aug 27 15:11:57 2022 (690182) ('127.0.0.1', 48170) Data: b'RCPT TO:<erevnite(a)lists.4th.com>' Aug 27 15:11:57 2022 (690182) ('127.0.0.1', 48170) recip: MY_LIST(a)lists.MY_DOMAIN Aug 27 15:11:57 2022 (690182) ('127.0.0.1', 48170) Data: b'DATA' Aug 27 15:11:57 2022 (690182) ('127.0.0.1', 48170) Data: b'QUIT' Aug 27 15:11:57 2022 (690182) ('127.0.0.1', 48170) connection lost Aug 27 15:11:57 2022 (690182) Connection lost during _handle_client() Originally I thought the "connection lost" indicated a failure, but that is happening for all the lists, and also on successful traffic. Since it occurs after the QUIT command in the SMTP session, and based on some online searching, my current understanding is that this is harmless and simply indicates the MTA closed the socket after the QUIT. (Please correct me if that is wrong.) Log data for mailman.log, with partial redaction: Aug 27 15:11:57 2022 (690181) ACCEPT: <REDACTED> Aug 27 15:11:59 2022 (690178) HyperKitty archived message <REDACTED> to https://lists.MY_DOMAIN/hyperkitty/list/MY_LIST@lists.MY_DOMAIN/message/G3D… 19:11:59 [Q] INFO Enqueued 518 19:11:59 [Q] INFO Enqueued 519 19:11:59 [Q] INFO Enqueued 520 19:11:59 [Q] INFO Enqueued 521 19:11:59 [Q] INFO Enqueued 522 19:11:59 [Q] INFO Enqueued 523 19:11:59 [Q] INFO Enqueued 524 INFO 2022-08-27 19:11:59,648 690164 hyperkitty.views.mailman Archived message <REDACTED> to https://lists.MY_DOMAIN/hyperkitty/list/MY_LIST@lists.MY_DOMAIN/message/G3D… [pid: 690164|app: 0|req: 4688541/4688541] 2600:3c04::f03c:91ff:fe02:9cc1 () {64 vars in 1255 bytes} [Sat Aug 27 19:11:59 2022] POST /hyperkitty/api/mailman/archive?key=xombsjgLDqe6d1oxvBaQWH4ZT81uCEjH => generated 113 bytes in 110 msecs (HTTP/1.1 200) 5 headers in 160 bytes (1 switches on core 0) 19:12:00 [Q] INFO Process-1:4 processing [update_from_mailman] 19:12:00 [Q] INFO Process-1:3 processing [sender_mailman_id] 19:12:00 [Q] INFO Process-1:2 processing [rebuild_thread_cache_new_email] 19:12:00 [Q] INFO Process-1:1 processing [compute_thread_positions] 19:12:00 [Q] INFO Processed [rebuild_thread_cache_new_email] 19:12:00 [Q] INFO Process-1:2 processing [rebuild_mailinglist_cache_recent] 19:12:00 [Q] INFO Processed [sender_mailman_id] 19:12:00 [Q] INFO Process-1:3 processing [rebuild_mailinglist_cache_for_month] 19:12:00 [Q] INFO Process-1:1 processing [check_orphans] 19:12:00 [Q] INFO Processed [compute_thread_positions] 19:12:00 [Q] INFO Processed [rebuild_mailinglist_cache_for_month] 19:12:00 [Q] INFO Processed [check_orphans] 19:12:00 [Q] INFO Processed [rebuild_mailinglist_cache_recent] 19:12:00 [Q] INFO Processed [update_from_mailman] [pid: 690164|app: 0|req: 4693691/4693691] 184.94.240.88 () {60 vars in 929 bytes} [Sat Aug 27 19:21:50 2022] HEAD / => generated 0 bytes in 2 msecs (HTTP/1.1 301) 6 headers in 204 bytes (1 switches on core 0) [pid: 690164|app: 0|req: 4693694/4693694] 184.94.240.88 () {60 vars in 1009 bytes} [Sat Aug 27 19:21:50 2022] HEAD /postorius/lists/ => generated 7136 bytes in 142 msecs (HTTP/1.1 200) 5 headers in 163 bytes (1 switches on core 1) There is nothing at all in the Exim log indicating an outbound transaction was attempted by Mailman. I know Exim and Mailman are communicating because all the lists use the same SMTP configuration for Exim and Mailman (i.e., the non-working list is not in any way exceptional). I've done a lot of searching online to find a solution, and I did see that a couple of others had asked about this type of problem, but the only one I found that got a response had an issue that didn't apply in my small environment. Absent any other ideas, I'm going to try inserting some trace logging into the Python code, but I can't figure out what's wrong here. I've even gone to the point of looking at the SQL rows to verify this list is exactly parallel to another working list, except its name and integer ID numbers for various unique auto-increment keys. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!

3 years, 2 months

[MM3-users] Re: Mailman3 not delivering list mail

by Mark Sapiro

On 10/1/20 11:18 AM, gordon(a)dickens.com wrote: > Hi Mark, > > I have errors like these in the mailman3 logs but they occurred earlier (that is prior to my attempting to post messages to the new mailman3 mailing list and which are not echoed to list members): > > > Oct 01 11:08:22 2020 (7895) Skipping and preserving unparseable message: 1601564901.8696995+c2b86623e2dcc8e9800b10ca2bcf8b82e8d8d662 > Oct 01 11:08:23 2020 (7895) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman3/queue/virgin/1601564902.28165 > 63+16bd684dfb18c6175f3e7b0b11312cb203dc9c89.pck' > Oct 01 11:08:23 2020 (7895) Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/mailman/core/runner.py", line 158, in _one_iteration > msg, msgdata = self.switchboard.dequeue(filebase) > File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/mailman/core/switchboard.py", line 150, in dequeue > with open(filename, 'rb') as fp: > PermissionError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman3/queue/virgin/1601564902.2816563+16bd684dfb18c6175f3e7b0b11312cb203dc9c89.pck' These relate to the messages in the `bad` queue. It seems there is/was andn issue with ownership and/or permissions on some directory or directories is the path `/var/lib/mailman3/queue/virgin`. Is mailman3, queue and virgin user and group `list` and searchable, readable and writable by `list`. Are all the runners running as user `list` ps -fwwA|grep runner > The above errors occurred prior to the time that I attempted to send to the mailman3 list. However, here is what I see in the logs immediately after I sent a message to the list and which was not then echoed to list members: > > > Oct 01 11:51:03 2020 (7888) ACCEPT: <f92eeaad-245c-124b-dd09-b31a6b3c5686(a)dickens.com> > Oct 01 11:51:07 2020 (7885) HyperKitty archived message <f92eeaad-245c-124b-dd09-b31a6b3c5686(a)dickens.com> to https://georgiajets.org > /mailman3/hyperkitty/list/members(a)georgiajets.org/message/NUOU6UQ6DSHSK2WKNVZFIN5AELK5EYBU/ > Oct 01 11:51:07 2020 (7891) Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on port 25 This is delivery of the outgoing message which looks like it was successfully archived. These messages come from `/var/lib/mailman3/queue/out` and after the failure are put in `/var/lib/mailman3/queue/retry` and periodically are moved back to the `out` queue and tried again. > Please note the message about the SMTP server not being able to connect to local host on port 25. Please let me know what you think is wrong and how to fix it. Normally it means exactly what is says. Is your MTA (Postfix or ??) running? Can you `telnet localhost 25` successfully? Note that if the message actually says `local host` and not `localhost`, the setting for smtp_host in the [mta] section of mailman.cfg needs to be fixed. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

5 years, 1 month

[MM3-users] Re: Held messages not delivered after approval

by Mark Sapiro

On 8/5/25 02:06, Krinetzki, Stephan wrote: > Aug 05 10:21:05 2025 (217986) Cannot connect to SMTP server localhost on port 25 > > The last error is a very often in the mailman.log: That's a misleading message. It's been improved by https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/merge_requests/1362, however usually the underlying issue is inability to access a header or footer template when decorating the message. This in turn is most likely caused by some template(s) in Mailman's var/templates/ directory being owned by `root` or some other non-mailman user and not readable by the Mailman user which in turn most likely results from running `mailman import21` as root. Bottom line - check that all sub-directories and files in Mailman's var/templates/ directory are searchable and readable by the Mailman user. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

2 months, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Pck files stuck in out queue

by Stephen J. Turnbull

Lieuallen, Thomas Otis via Mailman-users writes: > There were no apparent permissions problems on templates. As Mark writes, there may be a mismatch with POSTORIUS_TEMPLATE_BASE_URL. But a permissions problem need not be on the templates themselves. It can be directory search access for the 'mailman' user (often 'o-x' where the directory is owned by root) for one or more directories in the path to the template. > I was getting the ‘Cannot connect to SMTP server’ message in > mailman.log. I believe this is unrelated, but you should look into that. Steve

8 months, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Pck files stuck in out queue

by Mark Sapiro

On 2/6/25 17:07, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Lieuallen, Thomas Otis via Mailman-users writes: > > > I was getting the ‘Cannot connect to SMTP server’ message in > > mailman.log. > > I believe this is unrelated, but you should look into that. It is definitely related. That (very uninformative) message is logged once only after the out runner is started the first time calls the decorate handler and the handler can't access a template. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

8 months, 3 weeks

[MM3-users] Re: Trying to set up mailman3 on my mail server

by Mark Sapiro

On 10/14/21 7:51 PM, Shawn Heisey wrote: > I'm having a lot of trouble with trying to set up mailman3 on my mail > server. > > It's on an AWS instance, running Ubuntu 20.04 LTS. All software is > installed from Ubuntu packages. Mailman version is 3.2.2. Please see <https://wiki.list.org/x/12812344>[1] > The problem I am trying to troubleshoot first is how this can be happening: > > Oct 14 11:27:26 2021 (2341) ACCEPT: > <f36e1ed0-9d25-b661-9c94-4ce999f6d5fd(a)elyograg.org> > Oct 14 11:27:27 2021 (2344) Cannot connect to SMTP server 127.0.0.1 on > port 25 > > From the shell, I can "telnet localhost 25" successfully, even as the > "list" user. Apparmor is disabled. The UFW firewall is enabled, which > allows all traffic on the loopback interface. I disabled ipv6 at the > kernel level, but had the same problem with ipv6 enabled, so I don't > think ipv6 is related at all. I do not see any connections in the > postfix log that correspond to the mailman connection error. There's a long thread on this at <https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/…>. Your issue may not be the same, but that one had to do with templates, perhaps created in Postorius, that couldn't be accessed. > From a fresh install of mailman, I created two mailing lists. Once upon > a time I had those lists active on a Debian 6 machine running mailman > 2.1.13 ... I copied the mailing list config from that machine over and > used the "import21" facility to import the configuration into the new > mailman3 install. That worked without error and I can see the lists and > their members with the "mailman" command. I found instructions for > integration with postfix, and added the required three config lines to > the postfix config. > > When I try to send a message to the list, I get what I pasted above in > the mailman log. I think that means the postfix integration is working, > and is forwarding to mailman. Yes, and the message should be archived in whatever archivers are enabled. If the prototype archiver is enabled you should see the message in Mailman's var/archives/prototype/<list-id>/new/ directory and if HyperKitty is enabled, in mailman's database in the hyperkitty_email table. > I'm hoping somebody can give me some pointers, and if more information > is needed for troubleshooting, let me know what is needed. If your web UI isn't working, you probably haven't created any templates in Postorius, but import21 will create templates and if you ran import21 as root, you may have created templates and perhaps other things that can't be accessed by the Mailman user (`list` in your case). All Mailman related commands should be run only by the Mailman user. [1] This FAQ says you should be going to Debian/Ubuntu for support. If you've tried that and are not getting help there, I respectfully submit that you should purge the Debian/Ubuntu package and start over from here <https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html>. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

4 years

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