On 10/12/19 8:55 PM, Paul Arenson wrote:

I have found that my users in the discussion list are creating their own topics rather than using the existing ones, so decided to make it a read-only list and use WordPress moderated comments. Since I do not have the original settings for READ ONLY (this is a hosted version), I want to make sure that these are correct. Can someone comment.

I'm guessing what you want and what you are saying First, I think you are saying your issue is that your users are using HyperKitty as a web forum and when replying to a message in an existing thread instead of using the 'reply' action on that message, they use the Start a new thread button.

Is that really what you are saying?

MOST IMPORTANT—> What setting makes it a discussion list as opposed to read only?

If by "read only" you mean the "Announce only mailing list style" as opposed to the "Ordinary discussion mailing list style" the only difference is that for the Announce only style the list attribute allow_list_posts is False and for the Discussion style, it's True.

This is the setting in Postorius -> Settings -> Alter Messages -> Include the list post header an all it does is include or not include the List-Post: header in mail from the list.

ALTER MESSAGES

Filter content Now YES

Collapse Alternatives Now yes

Convert html to plain text Now NO

Above are not relevant.

Anonymous NOW YES

Are you sure you want this. What it does is replace the From: address with the list posting address and removes all other headers that could aid in identifying the poster. It is intended for lists discussing things such as domestic abuse where people may want to be able to post anonymously.

Include RFC2369 headers Now Yes

OK, but not relevant

Include the list post header Now Yes

This is what the announce style will set to No.

Reply Goes to List Now No munging

Pipeline Default

DMARC MITIFGATIONS

Replace From with list address

DMARC mitigate unconditionally Now NO

MESSAGE ACCEPTANCE

Require Explicit Destination Yes

Administrivia YES

The above are OK, but again not relevan to what I think you're asking.

Default action to take when a member posts to the list Hold for moderation

Default action to take when a member posts to the list Hold for moderation

Basically these two settings will hold all posts for moderator action, however if the user has a moderation setting other thgan list default, they won't apply.

OTHER?

See the FAQ at https://wiki.list.org/x/4030685. This is written for Mailman 2.1 and older and some of the settings aren't relevant or exactly the same in Mailman 3, but it may help.

On the other hand, if I'm not understanding what you want, please clarify.

-- Mark Sapiro mark@msapiro.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

On 10/14/19 12:06 AM, Paul Arenson wrote:

Mark Sapiro wrote:

...

If by "read only" you mean the "Announce only mailing list style" as opposed to the "Ordinary discussion mailing list style" the only difference is that for the Announce only style the list attribute allow_list_posts is False and for the Discussion style, it's True.

This is the setting in Postorius -> Settings -> Alter Messages -> Include the list post header an all it does is include or not include the List-Post: header in mail from the list.

Ok...there is no specific setting I see "allow_list_posts" but you wrote "Include the list post header " later on. So i set THAT one to NO?

allow_list_posts is the name of the attribute in Mailman core. It is exposed in Postorius as "Include the list post header". I.e., they are the same thing.

Note however that unless your users are using MUAs to reply by email and their MUAs offer a "reply-list" function for replies to mailing list posts, this setting will make no difference. It is the presence of the List-Post: header in the message that allows the MUA to offer/process the "reply-list" function.

-- Mark Sapiro mark@msapiro.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

On 10/14/19 5:40 PM, Paul Arenson wrote:

...

Assuming MUA means a mail application. And if that mail application has no reply list function then the setting doesn't work.

MUA means Mail User Agent which is another name for mail application, YES.

Uh-oh: I AM LOST AGAIN. (will all caps give me a larger font?)

...

It is the presence of the List-Post: header in the message that allows the MUA to offer/process the "reply-list" function.

Ok, I asked how to make it ANNOUNCE ONLY and you said to use "allow_list_posts is False" which is the same as "Include the list post header".

Not exactly. You asked what settings were different between discussion style and announce only style. What I answered was that the only setting that differed as set by the style was what Postorius calls "Include the list post header".

What I didn't say explicitly was that this is not sufficient to prevent posting to the list.

So does this mean that for a subset of users I cannot make it ANNOUNCE ONLY? And is it some other setting (send to moderator) that prevents it from being a DISCUSSION list?

What exactly do you want? You found some info on configuring an announce only list and I referred you to a FAQ on that subject. Both of these do not directly address Mailman 3, but they do give useful information.

I am going to stop guessing at what you want to accomplish, so tell me what you want to happen when someone sends a post to the list either from HyperKitty or by email. What should happen to the message? What if anything should be sent to the user? Should this behavior be the same for all users or just a subset. If a subset, how do you identify that subset and what should happen when others attempt to post?

-- Mark Sapiro mark@msapiro.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

Thank you Mark.

I am sorry if I am not clear. I want an announce list that only I can post to. Now it is discussion. I want to change it so that my users cannot. I thought all was ok but I am confused when you say "What I didn't say this is not sufficient to prevent posting to the list."

MAILMAN 2 What I got from the Mailman 2 Wiki is "How to restrict the list so only authorized persons can post (moderation). If there is an option like that in Mailman 3 I want that.

SUMMARY I want to be able to reply personally to the user if necessary without his or her message going to the list. So something like moderation.

So let me take a guess:

Default action to take when a non-member posts to the list AND Default action to take when a member posts to the list

should be set to HOLD FOR MODERATION?

Then I can first read the post, contact the person if necessary, and then delete the message?

Thanks again

On 10/14/19 7:03 PM, Paul Arenson wrote:

MAILMAN 2 What I got from the Mailman 2 Wiki is "How to restrict the list so only authorized persons can post (moderation). If there is an option like that in Mailman 3 I want that.

There is, but you can't do it the best way. See below.

SUMMARY I want to be able to reply personally to the user if necessary without his or her message going to the list. So something like moderation.

So let me take a guess:

Default action to take when a non-member posts to the list AND Default action to take when a member posts to the list

should be set to HOLD FOR MODERATION?

That will work and is probably what you want anyway. Your own posts will also be held, but you can just accept them.

Alternatively, you could set your own Moderation setting to Accept or Default Processing so your posts won't be held, but don't do that as it allows anyone to post by spoofing your address in From:, Sender: or Reply-To: or the envelope sender.

The best way to post without the post being held is pre-approval with an

Approved: <password>

header, where <password> is the list's moderator_password, but you can't set that in postorius so it won't work for you.

-- Mark Sapiro mark@msapiro.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

Thanks again Mark. The final result is to keep my list a discussion one (of a sort). I have set it to moderate both members and non members. If someone posts to a non existent topic, I will simply post it to the correct topic or create one on their behalf assuming it is a valid message.

Settings:

Default action to take when a non-member posts to the list AND Default action to take when a member posts to the list is MODERATE.

Anonymous--> NO

Announce only style the list attribute allow_list_posts is False and for the Discussion style, it's True.

I guess I should leave it as TRUE if I am keeping as discussion list, but since I am moderating all comments, I am guessing it doesn't matter. Am I right?

This is the setting in Postorius -> Settings -> Alter Messages -> Include the list post header an all it does is include or not include the List-Post: header in mail from the list.

Thank you Mark, and thank you for your patience. It now works fine!!!!