Is it possible to upgrade from Debian 11 to Debian 12 with Mailman3?
Hi, Is it possible to upgrade from Debian 11 to Debian 12 with Mailman3 installed on Debian 11? I specify that I want to stay in the Debian repositories, not a "hand" installation of MM3. I tested on a specific server. It was long and tedious but it seemed to me that it was working. In fact everything seems to work except the archive management :-( Here is the procedure followed: Stopping MM services Backup of the database (PostgreSQL) and the base MM directory Switch server from Debian 11 to Debian 12 and restart migrate the database from PG 113 to PG 15 (pg_upgradecluster 13 does this very well) Modify the file /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg with a URL reference "postgresql://" instead of "postgres://" (see https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/ mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/CU6YU44V4WLRJI3WJH2VBWO2HCUF4YEA/) update MM3 databases with "mailman-web migrate" restart MM3 and MM3-web With that MM3 works but not the archiving management! Note that there are no real error messages in the logs… In fact when we go to a list archive, we have pretty waiting wheels... infinite :-( The only reference in mailman3-web.log: [pid: 1429|app: 0|req: 12/12] NNN.NNN.NNN.NNN () {68 vars in 1445 bytes} [Mon Dec 18 16:35:56 2023] GET /hyperkitty/list/admin@ teledetection.fr/ => generated 37443 bytes in 37 msecs (HTTP/1.1 200) 7 headers in 221 bytes (1 switches on core 1) If you have any solution... Thank you in advance, have a good day and happy Christmas -- Pierre Malard Responsable architectures système CDS DINAMIS/THEIA Montpellier IRD - UMR Espace-Dev - UAR CPST - IR Data-Terra Maison de la Télédétection 500 rue Jean-François Breton 34093 Montpellier Cx 5 France « Il n'y a pas de Paradis, mais il faut tâcher de mériter qu'il y en ait un ! » Jules Renard (1864-1910) - Journal, 10 septembre 1903 |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) πr perl -e '$_=q#: 3|\ 5_,3-3,2_: 3/,`.'"'"'`'"'"' 5-. ;-;;,_: |,A- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'"'"'-'"'"': '"'"'-3'"'"'2(_/--'"'"' `-'"'"'\_): 24πr::#;y#:#\n#;s#(\D)(\d+)#$1x$2#ge;print' - --> Ce message n’engage que son auteur <-- ___________________________________________ Mailman's content filtering has removed the following MIME parts from this message. Replaced multipart/alternative part with first alternative.
On 12/18/23 11:14 PM, Pierre Malard via Mailman-users wrote:
Hi,
Is it possible to upgrade from Debian 11 to Debian 12 with Mailman3 installed on Debian 11?
I specify that I want to stay in the Debian repositories, not a "hand" installation of MM3.
This should be reported to Debian. See https://wiki.list.org/x/12812344
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 6:41 PM Pierre Malard via Mailman-users < mailman-users@mailman3.org> wrote:
Hi,
Is it possible to upgrade from Debian 11 to Debian 12 with Mailman3 installed on Debian 11?
I specify that I want to stay in the Debian repositories, not a "hand" installation of MM3.
I tested on a specific server. It was long and tedious but it seemed to me that it was working. In fact everything seems to work except the archive management :-(
Here is the procedure followed: Stopping MM services Backup of the database (PostgreSQL) and the base MM directory Switch server from Debian 11 to Debian 12 and restart migrate the database from PG 113 to PG 15 (pg_upgradecluster 13 does this very well) Modify the file /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg with a URL reference "postgresql://" instead of "postgres://" (see https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/ mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/CU6YU44V4WLRJI3WJH2VBWO2HCUF4YEA/) update MM3 databases with "mailman-web migrate" restart MM3 and MM3-web
With that MM3 works but not the archiving management! Note that there are no real error messages in the logs…
In fact when we go to a list archive, we have pretty waiting wheels... infinite :-( The only reference in mailman3-web.log: [pid: 1429|app: 0|req: 12/12] NNN.NNN.NNN.NNN () {68 vars in 1445 bytes} [Mon Dec 18 16:35:56 2023] GET /hyperkitty/list/admin@ teledetection.fr/ => generated 37443 bytes in 37 msecs (HTTP/1.1 200) 7 headers in 221 bytes (1 switches on core 1)
If you have any solution...
Thank you in advance, have a good day and happy Christmas
We (I am not including the MM3 Developers) are very happy to poke our noses into MM3 issues if they followed this documentation: https://docs.list.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html#virtualenv-install If not that, then it means you used your OS packages system and that is - well - not easy to help with as it's got several ways to break.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]
Additionally, in my feeling, the docker way is the easiest one - see https://github.com/maxking/docker-mailman
Am 19.12.23 um 17:01 schrieb Odhiambo Washington:
(...) We (I am not including the MM3 Developers) are very happy to poke our noses into MM3 issues if they followed this documentation: https://docs.list.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html#virtualenv-install If not that, then it means you used your OS packages system and that is - well - not easy to help with as it's got several ways to break.
Ok, don’t throw any more away! If you really don't recommend the Debian packaged solution, I just have one question: Why have you included it in the Debian "main" repositories for so long? Just a quick thought: In a production setting it is essential to have consistent alert reporting of security updates for all installed packages. As we cannot spend our time scrutinizing the lists of these tools tool by tool (snap, virtualenv, docker, appimage, etc.) it is much more efficient to rely on the system managed and deployed by the OS if it this is serious; and this is the case of Debian. Either, I will contact the packaging manager and discuss with him but I must admit that your reactions of disintegration do not bode well for the future. Sincerely
Le 19 déc. 2023 à 17:24, Jörg Schulz <info@joergschulz.de> a écrit :
Additionally, in my feeling, the docker way is the easiest one - see https://github.com/maxking/docker-mailman
Am 19.12.23 um 17:01 schrieb Odhiambo Washington:
(...) We (I am not including the MM3 Developers) are very happy to poke our noses into MM3 issues if they followed this documentation: https://docs.list.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html#virtualenv-install If not that, then it means you used your OS packages system and that is - well - not easy to help with as it's got several ways to break.
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-- Pierre Malard « - Il n'y a que trois éléments indispensables à la vie. Et il n'y a que les scientifiques pour penser que c'est l'oxygène, l'hydrogène et le carbone... - Quoi alors ? L'eau, l'air et le feu ? - Non ! Le désir, le désordre et le danger... » Manon Briand ; La turbulence des fluides (film québécois de 2001) |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) πr perl -e '$_=q#: 3|\ 5_,3-3,2_: 3/,`.'"'"'`'"'"' 5-. ;-;;,_: |,A- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'"'"'-'"'"': '"'"'-3'"'"'2(_/--'"'"' `-'"'"'\_): 24πr::#;y#:#\n#;s#(\D)(\d+)#$1x$2#ge;print' - --> Ce message n’engage que son auteur <-- ___________________________________________ Mailman's content filtering has removed the following MIME parts from this message. Replaced multipart/alternative part with first alternative.
On December 20, 2023 7:20:17 AM GMT, Pierre Malard via Mailman-users <mailman-users@mailman3.org> wrote:
Ok, don’t throw any more away!
If you really don't recommend the Debian packaged solution, I just have one question: Why have you included it in the Debian "main" repositories for so long?
We have no control over what's in Debian repositories. Maintenance and distribution of the Debian packages is done by Debian.
We would love it if all the downstream distributions included up to date and bug free Mailman packages. The problem is when people encounter difficulty with a downstream package, we are often unable to help because we don't know the details of that package.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> Sent from my Not_an_iThing with standards compliant, open source software.
Le 20 déc. 2023 à 09:14, Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> a écrit :
On December 20, 2023 7:20:17 AM GMT, Pierre Malard via Mailman-users <mailman-users@mailman3.org> wrote:
Ok, don’t throw any more away!
If you really don't recommend the Debian packaged solution, I just have one question: Why have you included it in the Debian "main" repositories for so long?
We have no control over what's in Debian repositories. Maintenance and distribution of the Debian packages is done by Debian.
We would love it if all the downstream distributions included up to date and bug free Mailman packages. The problem is when people encounter difficulty with a downstream package, we are often unable to help because we don't know the details of that package.
Ok Mark,
Sorry, I thought that the creation of the repository depended directly on you or, at least, on someone from the team. Obviously this is not really the case and I will address the person in charge: Jonas Meurer I presume?
Good day
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> Sent from my Not_an_iThing with standards compliant, open source software.
-- Pierre
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On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 11:28 AM Pierre Malard via Mailman-users < mailman-users@mailman3.org> wrote:
Le 20 déc. 2023 à 09:14, Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> a écrit :
On December 20, 2023 7:20:17 AM GMT, Pierre Malard via Mailman-users <
mailman-users@mailman3.org> wrote:
Ok, don’t throw any more away!
If you really don't recommend the Debian packaged solution, I just have one question: Why have you included it in the Debian "main" repositories for so long?
We have no control over what's in Debian repositories. Maintenance and distribution of the Debian packages is done by Debian.
We would love it if all the downstream distributions included up to date and bug free Mailman packages. The problem is when people encounter difficulty with a downstream package, we are often unable to help because we don't know the details of that package.
Ok Mark,
Sorry, I thought that the creation of the repository depended directly on you or, at least, on someone from the team. Obviously this is not really the case and I will address the person in charge: Jonas Meurer I presume?
Still, the packages will always be lagging. With virtualenv, you have a container that only relies on very minimal apps from the base OS (python3-dev python3-venv sassc lynx), the MTA, the web server, and the DB backend and is mostly self-contained, besides the fact that you also get to run the latest code.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]
On 2023-12-20 09:27:44 +0100 (+0100), Pierre Malard via Mailman-users wrote: [...]
Sorry, I thought that the creation of the repository depended directly on you or, at least, on someone from the team. Obviously this is not really the case and I will address the person in charge: Jonas Meurer I presume?
All packages in the Debian GNU/Linux distribution (not just the Mailman packages) are maintained by volunteers within the Debian community. Debian has published guidelines here for reporting bugs in any of their packages: https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
Also take note of this bit of guidance from the same page: "If you file a bug in Debian, don't send a copy to the upstream software maintainers yourself, as it is possible that the bug exists only in Debian. If necessary, the maintainer of the package will forward the bug upstream."
If you have trouble understanding Debian's bug reporting process or system, reach out to the Debian user mailing list for assistance: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/
If English is not your preferred language, the bug reporting wiki page is translated into many others as well (linked in the footer of that page), and there are language-specific user mailing lists available from https://lists.debian.org/users.html as well.
Jeremy Stanley
THANKS, The Debian list provided me with the solution, a simple one: # dpkg-reconfigure mailman3 mailman3-full mailman3-web python3-django-hyperkitty python3-mailmanclient By refusing the creation of new databases for MM3 and MM3-web. That fixed everything despite a lot of warnings in the "django" section.
Le 19 déc. 2023 à 17:24, Jörg Schulz <info@joergschulz.de> a écrit :
Additionally, in my feeling, the docker way is the easiest one - see https://github.com/maxking/docker-mailman
Am 19.12.23 um 17:01 schrieb Odhiambo Washington:
(...) We (I am not including the MM3 Developers) are very happy to poke our noses into MM3 issues if they followed this documentation: https://docs.list.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html#virtualenv-install If not that, then it means you used your OS packages system and that is - well - not easy to help with as it's got several ways to break.
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-- Pierre Malard Responsable architectures système CDS DINAMIS/THEIA Montpellier IRD - UMR Espace-Dev - UAR CPST - IR Data-Terra Maison de la Télédétection 500 rue Jean-François Breton 34093 Montpellier Cx 5 France |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) πr perl -e '$_=q#: 3|\ 5_,3-3,2_: 3/,`.'"'"'`'"'"' 5-. ;-;;,_: |,A- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'"'"'-'"'"': '"'"'-3'"'"'2(_/--'"'"' `-'"'"'\_): 24πr::#;y#:#\n#;s#(\D)(\d+)#$1x$2#ge;print' - --> Ce message n’engage que son auteur <-- ___________________________________________ Mailman's content filtering has removed the following MIME parts from this message. Replaced multipart/alternative part with first alternative.
participants (5)
-
Jeremy Stanley -
Jörg Schulz -
Mark Sapiro -
Odhiambo Washington -
Pierre Malard