Hi,
since 8/1/2023 I get complains from users with @gmail.com addresses, that they are not getting any emails. I checked the logs and I see that the emails are going out:
to=<xxxx@gmail.com>, relay=email-smtp.us-east-1.amazonaws.com[35.169.171.20]:587, delay=0.46, delays=0.03/0.06/0.13/0.24, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 Ok xxx )
But it seems the users are getting email delivered to them. I’ve advised them to check their spam, promotions, and social folders and to add the list address to their email safe-senders lists, but still no success. Is there any way to help this list members?
Thanks
Subscribe your gmail.com address and verify whether or not the deliveries are happening.
On Tue, Sep 5, 2023 at 11:00 PM Mohsen Masoudfar <mmasoudf@aaas.org> wrote:
Hi,
since 8/1/2023 I get complains from users with @gmail.com addresses, that they are not getting any emails. I checked the logs and I see that the emails are going out:
to=<xxxx@gmail.com>, relay=email-smtp.us-east-1.amazonaws.com[35.169.171.20]:587, delay=0.46, delays=0.03/0.06/0.13/0.24, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 Ok xxx )
But it seems the users are getting email delivered to them. I’ve advised them to check their spam, promotions, and social folders and to add the list address to their email safe-senders lists, but still no success. Is there any way to help this list members?
Thanks
Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users@mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave@mailman3.org https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ Archived at: https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message/...
This message sent to odhiambo@gmail.com
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]
On 9/5/23 12:59, Mohsen Masoudfar wrote:
Hi,
since 8/1/2023 I get complains from users with @gmail.com addresses, that they are not getting any emails. I checked the logs and I see that the emails are going out:
to=<xxxx@gmail.com>, relay=email-smtp.us-east-1.amazonaws.com[35.169.171.20]:587, delay=0.46, delays=0.03/0.06/0.13/0.24, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 Ok xxx )
But it seems the users are getting email delivered to them. I’ve advised them to check their spam, promotions, and social folders and to add the list address to their email safe-senders lists, but still no success. Is there any way to help this list members?
Even though gmail publishes a DMARC policy of none, it has recently started enforcing a stricter policy for mail From: the gmail.com domain. You need to apply DMARC mitigations to mail From: the gmail.com domain. There are two ways to do this.
One way is to set DMARC Mitigations -> DMARC Mitigate unconditionally to Yes (and set DMARC mitigation action appropriately)
The other way requires upgrading Postorius and Mailman core to the heads
of the GitLab branches (core=3.3.9b1, postorius=1.3.9b1). Doing this
enables a DMARC Addresses setting which can be set to ^.*@gmail\.com$
to apply DMARC mitigatations to mail From: the gmail.com domain
regardless of it's published policy.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Once this gets handled, Mohsen, Google has another issue with list servers:
If a subscriber who uses GMail posts a message to a list, then that subscriber will not get his/her own message from the server - Google eats it. All other subscribers will get it, but not the author. My subscribers run into this all the time and are up in arms over it. I tell them to complain to Google.
Yours,
AllanOn 9/5/23, 13:18, "Mark Sapiro" <mark@msapiro.net <mailto:mark@msapiro.net>> wrote:
On 9/5/23 12:59, Mohsen Masoudfar wrote:
Hi,
since 8/1/2023 I get complains from users with @gmail.com addresses, that they are not getting any emails. I checked the logs and I see that the emails are going out:
to=<xxxx@gmail.com <mailto:xxxx@gmail.com>>, relay=email-smtp.us-east-1.amazonaws.com[35.169.171.20]:587, delay=0.46, delays=0.03/0.06/0.13/0.24, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 Ok xxx )
But it seems the users are getting email delivered to them. I’ve advised them to check their spam, promotions, and social folders and to add the list address to their email safe-senders lists, but still no success. Is there any way to help this list members?
Even though gmail publishes a DMARC policy of none, it has recently started enforcing a stricter policy for mail From: the gmail.com domain. You need to apply DMARC mitigations to mail From: the gmail.com domain. There are two ways to do this.
One way is to set DMARC Mitigations -> DMARC Mitigate unconditionally to Yes (and set DMARC mitigation action appropriately)
The other way requires upgrading Postorius and Mailman core to the heads
of the GitLab branches (core=3.3.9b1, postorius=1.3.9b1). Doing this
enables a DMARC Addresses setting which can be set to ^.*@gmail\.com$
to apply DMARC mitigatations to mail From: the gmail.com domain
regardless of it's published policy.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net <mailto:mark@msapiro.net>> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users@mailman3.org <mailto:mailman-users@mailman3.org> To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave@mailman3.org <mailto:mailman-users-leave@mailman3.org> https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/ <https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/> Archived at: https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org <mailto:mailman-users@mailman3.org>/message/WZY5IC3OVHVBHIGDT4TE3EWSSGMF6CYI/
This message sent to hansen@rc.org <mailto:hansen@rc.org>
On 9/5/23 15:22, Allan Hansen wrote:
Once this gets handled, Mohsen, Google has another issue with list servers:
If a subscriber who uses GMail posts a message to a list, then that subscriber will not get his/her own message from the server - Google eats it. All other subscribers will get it, but not the author. My subscribers run into this all the time and are up in arms over it. I tell them to complain to Google.
See https://wiki.list.org/x/4030680
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
On Tue, Sep 05 2023, Mark Sapiro wrote:
it has recently started enforcing a stricter policy
Yes, indeed, very annoying. That's why Mailman is no more useable for me, because I don't want to change the "From:" header.
Probably related: Even without any setting in "Alter Messages", messages with attachment from Gmail are altered, so that DKIM signatures are invalidated:
https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/4...
If anybody wants to fix that, please contact me, I could offer a bounty.
Just an idea: you could add to the message object a field like "orig-body", that keeps the unmodified body.
-- Peter
Peter Münster writes:
Probably related: Even without any setting in "Alter Messages", messages with attachment from Gmail are altered, so that DKIM signatures are invalidated:
I think they do this on purpose. Gmail is producing invalid MIME[1]. As you're supposed to do on the internet, Python's email module is accepting it because even though it's technically invalid, it's clear what the intended semantics are. Then as you're supposed to do on the internet, Python produces valid MIME when it reconstructs the message.
I don't know about those other whitespace issues; probably those could be preserved.
Just an idea: you could add to the message object a field like "orig-body", that keeps the unmodified body.
You could, but that would mean tripling or quadrupling the size of many message objects (I've seen PNGs encoded in quoted-pair!) And you'd have to do it for all message objects in the Mailman queues, because Mailman does this conversion as soon as the message arrives, before it knows enough about the message to know if it's really necessary. Then you'd need some kind of API for callers to tell the Email package when to do this, and then when to use it instead of the parsed version in constructing the outgoing message.
I think it's much simpler to just do what Google wants you to do, and mutilate the From field of Gmail authors.
FWIW, if I were going to try to deal with this, I would probably do it differently, adding these peculiarities to the list of things Email considers to be "message defects", and then have a "reproduce defects" flag for the reassemble functions. That would also fix some other things that people sometimes dislike, like Mailman choosing to fold headers in a different place from the orginal.
Footnotes: [1] I'm not going to read the RFCs now to make sure, but the thing is that the newlines on either side of the divider are parsed as part of the divider, not as line separators. So if you have two dividers in a row, there needs to be two newlines (at least) between them, one for the end of the first divider, one for the beginning of the second.
Peter Münster writes:
On Thu, Sep 07 2023, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
and then have a "reproduce defects" flag for the reassemble functions.
Yes, that sounds good. Are you ready to do that? And if yes, what recompense would you like to receive please?
I could do it, but I don't really want to.
The problem is even if it were done, it's a very fragile feature because it depends on collecting particular behaviors that can change at any time. So I'm unsure (50-50 at best) that it would get into Python, and then I don't know if it would get into Mailman because it's not obvious anybody would want the responsibility of continuous maintenance in order to take account of all the idiosyncrasies of homebrew mail clients of various companies.
The current DMARC behavior of changing From and Reply-To is much more robust, and I just don't think there's that big a constituency for making life easy for disruptive actors like Google.
Steve
On Fri, Sep 08 2023, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
I just don't think there's that big a constituency for making life easy for disruptive actors like Google.
I agree. Disruptive and deaf-mute: https://support.google.com/mail/thread/234689293/no-empty-line-between-2-del...
-- Peter
Thank you Mark for your response as always!
I checked the lists having the issue of sending emails to @gmail.com subscribers. They had already these settings (so no changes): DMARC Mitigate unconditionally : yes DMARC mitigation action: Replace From: with list address DMARC rejection notice: empty DMARC wrapped message text: empty
I wonder three points:
- What would be the next action to fix the issue?
- This issue started around the beginning of August. Could it be due to some changes google made recently?
- Give the number of Gmail users, this should annoy a bigger community, are you seeing that many upset people?
Thanks, Mohsen
From: Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2023 4:17 PM To: mailman-users@mailman3.org <mailman-users@mailman3.org> Subject: [MM3-users] Re: Issues with @gmail.com addresses
[EXTERNAL EMAIL]
On 9/5/23 12:59, Mohsen Masoudfar wrote:
Hi,
since 8/1/2023 I get complains from users with @gmail.com addresses, that they are not getting any emails. I checked the logs and I see that the emails are going out:
to=<xxxx@gmail.com>, relay=email-smtp.us-east-1.amazonaws.com[35.169.171.20]:587, delay=0.46, delays=0.03/0.06/0.13/0.24, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 Ok xxx )
But it seems the users are getting email delivered to them. I’ve advised them to check their spam, promotions, and social folders and to add the list address to their email safe-senders lists, but still no success. Is there any way to help this list members?
Even though gmail publishes a DMARC policy of none, it has recently started enforcing a stricter policy for mail From: the gmail.com domain. You need to apply DMARC mitigations to mail From: the gmail.com domain. There are two ways to do this.
One way is to set DMARC Mitigations -> DMARC Mitigate unconditionally to Yes (and set DMARC mitigation action appropriately)
The other way requires upgrading Postorius and Mailman core to the heads
of the GitLab branches (core=3.3.9b1, postorius=1.3.9b1). Doing this
enables a DMARC Addresses setting which can be set to ^.*@gmail\.com$
to apply DMARC mitigatations to mail From: the gmail.com domain
regardless of it's published policy.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users@mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave@mailman3.org https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.mailman3.org%2Fmailman3%2Flists%2Fmailman-users.mailman3.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cmmasoudf%40aaas.org%7C79691e4f688946497f6408dbae4d3aa1%7C2eebd8ff9ed140f0a15638e5dfb3bc56%7C0%7C0%7C638295418976047011%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lOVCr33oLznP9t7AbE5WkD0cJOB374uhUUTsABFzAMc%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/> Archived at: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.mailman3.org%2Farchives%2Flist%2Fmailman-users%40mailman3.org%2Fmessage%2FWZY5IC3OVHVBHIGDT4TE3EWSSGMF6CYI%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cmmasoudf%40aaas.org%7C79691e4f688946497f6408dbae4d3aa1%7C2eebd8ff9ed140f0a15638e5dfb3bc56%7C0%7C0%7C638295418976047011%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Y1cXmd7cckhfJ4YCLmkgks6hWIBKlQ4A5KZP1DXa800%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message/WZY5IC3OVHVBHIGDT4TE3EWSSGMF6CYI/>
This message sent to mmasoudf@aaas.org
I created a new list with this setting. This new created list can send to Gmail addresses, this is very strange, because I have changed the problem list (The list that cannot send to @gmail addresses) settings to match the new one, but still the issue is there. The only difference is that the problem list has been imported from mailman2.
Question: is there a command line that displays all the settings of a list? I think it might be some hidden settings that are not visible in the UI?
Thanks Mohsen
From: Mohsen Masoudfar <mmasoudf@aaas.org> Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 1:32 PM To: Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net>; mailman-users@mailman3.org <mailman-users@mailman3.org> Subject: Re: [MM3-users] Re: Issues with @gmail.com addresses
Thank you Mark for your response as always!
I checked the lists having the issue of sending emails to @gmail.com subscribers. They had already these settings (so no changes): DMARC Mitigate unconditionally : yes DMARC mitigation action: Replace From: with list address DMARC rejection notice: empty DMARC wrapped message text: empty
I wonder three points:
- What would be the next action to fix the issue?
- This issue started around the beginning of August. Could it be due to some changes google made recently?
- Give the number of Gmail users, this should annoy a bigger community, are you seeing that many upset people?
Thanks, Mohsen
From: Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2023 4:17 PM To: mailman-users@mailman3.org <mailman-users@mailman3.org> Subject: [MM3-users] Re: Issues with @gmail.com addresses
[EXTERNAL EMAIL]
On 9/5/23 12:59, Mohsen Masoudfar wrote:
Hi,
since 8/1/2023 I get complains from users with @gmail.com addresses, that they are not getting any emails. I checked the logs and I see that the emails are going out:
to=<xxxx@gmail.com>, relay=email-smtp.us-east-1.amazonaws.com[35.169.171.20]:587, delay=0.46, delays=0.03/0.06/0.13/0.24, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 Ok xxx )
But it seems the users are getting email delivered to them. I’ve advised them to check their spam, promotions, and social folders and to add the list address to their email safe-senders lists, but still no success. Is there any way to help this list members?
Even though gmail publishes a DMARC policy of none, it has recently started enforcing a stricter policy for mail From: the gmail.com domain. You need to apply DMARC mitigations to mail From: the gmail.com domain. There are two ways to do this.
One way is to set DMARC Mitigations -> DMARC Mitigate unconditionally to Yes (and set DMARC mitigation action appropriately)
The other way requires upgrading Postorius and Mailman core to the heads
of the GitLab branches (core=3.3.9b1, postorius=1.3.9b1). Doing this
enables a DMARC Addresses setting which can be set to ^.*@gmail\.com$
to apply DMARC mitigatations to mail From: the gmail.com domain
regardless of it's published policy.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users@mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave@mailman3.org https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.mailman3.org%2Fmailman3%2Flists%2Fmailman-users.mailman3.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cmmasoudf%40aaas.org%7C79691e4f688946497f6408dbae4d3aa1%7C2eebd8ff9ed140f0a15638e5dfb3bc56%7C0%7C0%7C638295418976047011%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lOVCr33oLznP9t7AbE5WkD0cJOB374uhUUTsABFzAMc%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/> Archived at: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.mailman3.org%2Farchives%2Flist%2Fmailman-users%40mailman3.org%2Fmessage%2FWZY5IC3OVHVBHIGDT4TE3EWSSGMF6CYI%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cmmasoudf%40aaas.org%7C79691e4f688946497f6408dbae4d3aa1%7C2eebd8ff9ed140f0a15638e5dfb3bc56%7C0%7C0%7C638295418976047011%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Y1cXmd7cckhfJ4YCLmkgks6hWIBKlQ4A5KZP1DXa800%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message/WZY5IC3OVHVBHIGDT4TE3EWSSGMF6CYI/>
This message sent to mmasoudf@aaas.org
On 9/6/23 14:24, Mohsen Masoudfar wrote:
Question: is there a command line that displays all the settings of a list? I think it might be some hidden settings that are not visible in the UI?
$ /opt/mailman/mm/bin/mailman shell -l list.example.com
Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell
Use commit() to commit changes.
Use abort() to discard changes since the last commit.
Exit with ctrl+D does an implicit commit() but exit() does not.
The variable 'm' is the list.example.com mailing list
>>> for x in dir(m):
... if not x.startswith('_'):
... print(f'{x}: {m.__getattribute__(x)}')
...
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Continuing the troubleshooting, I came around a very long list, over 3000, of "banned addresses" on the 'problem list'. I wonder if there is a way to delete them programmatically. I searched ourlist, but could not find a hint. It seems mailmanclient has a method to deal with this, but I could not find the details.
Mohsen
From: Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:49 PM To: mailman-users@mailman3.org <mailman-users@mailman3.org> Subject: [MM3-users] Re: Issues with @gmail.com addresses
[EXTERNAL EMAIL]
On 9/6/23 14:24, Mohsen Masoudfar wrote:
Question: is there a command line that displays all the settings of a list? I think it might be some hidden settings that are not visible in the UI?
$ /opt/mailman/mm/bin/mailman shell -l list.example.com
Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell
Use commit() to commit changes.
Use abort() to discard changes since the last commit.
Exit with ctrl+D does an implicit commit() but exit() does not.
The variable 'm' is the list.example.com mailing list
>>> for x in dir(m):
... if not x.startswith('_'):
... print(f'{x}: {m.__getattribute__(x)}')
...
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users@mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave@mailman3.org https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.mailman3.org%2Fmailman3%2Flists%2Fmailman-users.mailman3.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cmmasoudf%40aaas.org%7Cb9fb89b2043248f491c008dbaf2b8ab5%7C2eebd8ff9ed140f0a15638e5dfb3bc56%7C0%7C0%7C638296373814854881%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=MwXZtq9or9BEh%2FZDDfzOzy3wYEOhrsu7BfH%2Fq1vSUNk%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/> Archived at: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.mailman3.org%2Farchives%2Flist%2Fmailman-users%40mailman3.org%2Fmessage%2FWAKTIAMM5WW2M7BL6HDXQIK654QJRHBP%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cmmasoudf%40aaas.org%7Cb9fb89b2043248f491c008dbaf2b8ab5%7C2eebd8ff9ed140f0a15638e5dfb3bc56%7C0%7C0%7C638296373814854881%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vMvoLZwl9l9wRXJgE0YUOP6KqZL7FAGCGaPoH7c%2FVpc%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/message/WAKTIAMM5WW2M7BL6HDXQIK654QJRHBP/>
This message sent to mmasoudf@aaas.org
On 9/7/23 13:07, Mohsen Masoudfar wrote:
Continuing the troubleshooting, I came around a very long list, over 3000, of "banned addresses" on the 'problem list'. I wonder if there is a way to delete them programmatically.
$ /opt/mailman/mm/bin/mailman shell -l list.example.com
Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell
Use commit() to commit changes.
Use abort() to discard changes since the last commit.
Exit with ctrl+D does an implicit commit() but exit() does not.
The variable 'm' is the list.example.com mailing list
>>> bm = IBanManager(m)
>>> for ban in bm.bans:
... bm.unban(ban.email)
...
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mohsen Masoudfar writes:
I created a new list with this setting. This new created list can send to Gmail addresses, this is very strange, because I have changed the problem list (The list that cannot send to @gmail addresses) settings to match the new one, but still the issue is there.
The problem may also be that Google has decided that your existing list has a bad reputation, that is, it had too many posts rejected in the past. The new list doesn't have that problem.
The problem that mailing lists face with the biggest email providers is that they don't have acceptance policies any more because they use algorithmic reputation engines. *They* don't know why your email was rejected. (Truth be told, none of us do since we use Bayesian spam filters. But at least if you use SpamBayes you know what features are being evaluated. Machine learning algorithms use "features" that are too tiny to be connected to spam except with big data.)
On 2023-09-08 00:50:26 +0900 (+0900), Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: [...]
The problem may also be that Google has decided that your existing list has a bad reputation, that is, it had too many posts rejected in the past. The new list doesn't have that problem. [...]
A related problem we've encountered in the past, particularly with the big freemail providers like Goog, is list moderators receiving copies of held messages with dubious content. Because the message body or a text attachment contains obvious spam, the provider decides the listserv is a spam emitter even though none of those messages are actually making it to the lists (they're discarded by the moderators). We went so far as just turning off moderator notifications for a lot of our lists in order to work around it, relying on moderators to check the held messages page directly on a regular basis instead.
Jeremy Stanley
Jeremy Stanley writes:
We went so far as just turning off moderator notifications for a lot of our lists in order to work around it, relying on moderators to check the held messages page directly on a regular basis instead.
We could easily have an option to not attach the messages to the notifications, just a list of most useful headers, or simply a statement of how many if you really want to be minimal.
On 2023-09-09 01:21:32 +0900 (+0900), Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: [...]
We could easily have an option to not attach the messages to the notifications, just a list of most useful headers, or simply a statement of how many if you really want to be minimal.
A number of our lists would probably make use of that if it were an option, though sadly my dance card is too full to code the feature any time soon. Checking list moderation pages directly isn't a huge deal anyway, I mean I have something like 20 browser tabs perpetually open to the moderation queues for lists I personally handle and just refresh them every morning to see if there's anything that needs attention (I do get the notifications but tend to only skim them in case there's something urgent, though I also run my own MTA for my personal mailboxes so there's no risk of the postmaster getting concerned and banning them).
Jeremy Stanley
Jeremy Stanley writes:
On 2023-09-09 01:21:32 +0900 (+0900), Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: [...]
We could easily have an option to not attach the messages to the notifications, just a list of most useful headers, or simply a statement of how many if you really want to be minimal.
A number of our lists would probably make use of that if it were an option, though sadly my dance card is too full to code the feature any time soon.
Turns out there's already an RFE in the GitLab tracker: https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/670 I added "easy" and "beginner-friendly" to the issue. I'm not so sure if that's true of the follow-on RFE (the change to Postorius, which I did not yet create ;-), but we can cross that bridge when a volunteer shows up. :-)
Do you know if the whole spammy mail is needed to trigger the overly sensitive sites, or if just From: and Subject: can do it?
On 2023-09-09 17:34:04 +0900 (+0900), Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: [...]
Do you know if the whole spammy mail is needed to trigger the overly sensitive sites, or if just From: and Subject: can do it?
Honestly it's hard to say, as with any of the black-box spam identification heuristics the large freemail providers employ. Probably included subjects and addresses could trigger them, but I expect they have a lower chance of doing so. Volume of notifications is the other thing to consider (so the batching idea you mentioned might be a help there).
Jeremy Stanley
Hi Mohsen,
Do you send via AWS SES? You might find some useful logs in there rather than in your local MTA.
Danil Smirnov
On Tue, Sep 5, 2023 at 11:00 PM Mohsen Masoudfar <mmasoudf@aaas.org> wrote:
Hi,
since 8/1/2023 I get complains from users with @gmail.com addresses, that they are not getting any emails. I checked the logs and I see that the emails are going out:
to=<xxxx@gmail.com>, relay=email-smtp.us-east-1.amazonaws.com[35.169.171.20]:587, delay=0.46, delays=0.03/0.06/0.13/0.24, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 Ok xxx )
But it seems the users are getting email delivered to them. I’ve advised them to check their spam, promotions, and social folders and to add the list address to their email safe-senders lists, but still no success. Is there any way to help this list members?
Thanks
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participants (8)
-
Allan Hansen -
Danil Smirnov -
Jeremy Stanley -
Mark Sapiro -
Mohsen Masoudfar -
Odhiambo Washington -
Peter Münster -
Stephen J. Turnbull