What's the difference between (purpose of) reject and ignore
Hi,
at a page of the form .../postorius/lists/mylist/held_messages, it is possible to:
- Accept
- Reject
- Ignore
messages to be moderated. I didn't find any documentation about the difference between (the purpose of) “Reject” and “Ignore”.
Since the list I'm currently moderating suffers from a lot of spammers, I wonder if there is a way to at the same time:
- remove the spam from the moderation list (“Reject”? “Ignore”?),
- add the emails from the removed spams to the list of banished emails (since copying-pasting each mail to be banished is a pain).
Thanks in advance!
On 6/23/22 12:37, denis.bitouze@univ-littoral.fr wrote:
Hi,
at a page of the form .../postorius/lists/mylist/held_messages, it is possible to:
- Accept
- Reject
- Ignore
What is the Postorius version and is it installed from source, pip or as package and if as package, what package?
The choices should be Accept, Reject and Discard. There should be no Ignore choice, but I'm guessing you see them in French where the translation of Discard is Ignorer. See https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/blob/master/src/postorius/locale/fr/L.... The difference between Reject and Discard is Reject notifies the sender of the rejection whereas Discard just discards the message without notification.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mark Sapiro wrote:
On 6/23/22 12:37, denis.bitouze@univ-littoral.fr wrote:
What is the Postorius version and is it installed from source, pip or as package and if as package, what package?
- Postorius 1.3.4
- Here are some details: ┌──── │ $ apt-cache show mailman3-full │ Package: mailman3-full │ Source: mailman3 │ Version: 3.3.3-1 │ Installed-Size: 48 │ Maintainer: Debian Mailman Team <pkg-mailman-hackers@lists.alioth.debian.org> │ Architecture: all │ Depends: mailman3, mailman3-web, python3-mailman-hyperkitty │ Description-en: Full Mailman3 mailing list management suite (metapackage) │ This is GNU Mailman, a mailing list management system. This metapackage │ depends on all components of the full Mailman3 suite: │ . │ * mailman3: The core Mailman3 delivery engine │ * mailman3-web: Django project integrating Mailman3 postorius and hyperkitty │ * python3-mailman-hyperkitty: Mailman3 server plugin for Hyperkitty archiver └────
The choices should be Accept, Reject and Discard. There should be no Ignore choice, but I'm guessing you see them in French where the translation of Discard is Ignorer. See https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/blob/master/src/postorius/locale/fr/L....
Indeed, sorry for the misleading translation from French to English. Maybe I'll suggest another word to the French translation team.
The difference between Reject and Discard is Reject notifies the sender of the rejection whereas Discard just discards the message without notification.
IMHO, even in English, “Reject” and “Discard” are not self-explanatory.
BTW, no clue about an automatic banishment of emails from discarded messages?
On 6/25/22 07:54, denis.bitouze@univ-littoral.fr wrote:
Mark Sapiro wrote:
The difference between Reject and Discard is Reject notifies the sender of the rejection whereas Discard just discards the message without notification.
IMHO, even in English, “Reject” and “Discard” are not self-explanatory.
They seem so to me, but in any case, if you look at Postorius -> Settings -> Message Acceptance -> Default action to take when a (non-)member posts to the list, they are described there in much more detail.
BTW, no clue about an automatic banishment of emails from discarded messages?
In the pop-up dialog from clicking the subject of a held post you can set the sender's moderation status when discarding the post.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mark Sapiro wrote:
On 6/25/22 07:54, denis.bitouze@univ-littoral.fr wrote:
Mark Sapiro wrote: The difference between Reject and Discard is Reject notifies the sender of the rejection whereas Discard just discards the message without notification. IMHO, even in English, “Reject” and “Discard” are not self-explanatory.
They seem so to me, but in any case, if you look at Postorius -> Settings -> Message Acceptance -> Default action to take when a (non-)member posts to the list, they are described there in much more detail.
OK: not easy to figure out. A tooltip on the corresponding buttons would be helpful.
BTW, no clue about an automatic banishment of emails from discarded messages?
In the pop-up dialog from clicking the subject of a held post you can set the sender's moderation status when discarding the post.
Sorry but I can only see:
- “--- Set member moderation ---” (non selectable, I guess)
- “Hold for moderation”
- “Reject (with notification)”
- “Discard (no notification)”
- “Accept immediately (bypass other rules)”
- “Default processing”
and cannot see how I can at the same time “Discard (no notification)” and “Banish the email of the post's sender”.
Hello,
On Sat, Jun 25, 2022 at 08:22:31PM -0000, denis.bitouze@univ-littoral.fr wrote:
Mark Sapiro wrote:
In the pop-up dialog from clicking the subject of a held post you can set the sender's moderation status when discarding the post.
Sorry but I can only see:
- “--- Set member moderation ---” (non selectable, I guess)
- “Hold for moderation”
- “Reject (with notification)”
- “Discard (no notification)”
- “Accept immediately (bypass other rules)”
- “Default processing”
and cannot see how I can at the same time “Discard (no notification)” and “Banish the email of the post's sender”.
These are actions for all future messages from that member, so "Discard (no notification)" would set it to (silently) discard all future mails from them. Is that not what you mean by "banish"?
Cheers, Andy
Yes, that's what I meant, thanks.
AFAICS, it is not documented since, at Postorius → Settings → Message Acceptance → Default action to take when a (non-)member posts to the list, I only read: “Discard: this simply discards the message, with no notice sent to the post's author”. So no mention that this would set it to (silently) discard all future mails from them.
Just to be sure: for this feature, is it necessary to click on the subject and to choose in the drop-down list “Discard (no notification)”, or is it enough, on the .../held_messages page, to select the messages and click on “Discard”?
Hello,
On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 12:37:05PM -0000, denis.bitouze@univ-littoral.fr wrote:
AFAICS, it is not documented since, at Postorius → Settings → Message Acceptance → Default action to take when a (non-)member posts to the list, I only read: “Discard: this simply discards the message, with no notice sent to the post's author”. So no mention that this would set it to (silently) discard all future mails from them.
Well that is because that isn't what that part does. As it says, that part is the "Default action to take when a member/non-member posts to the list". So that's where you set what you want to happen when ANY non-member posts. This is what will happen any time any non-member posts.
By contrast, when you set an action on a particular held message, it is asking you want you want to do with posts from THAT INDIVIDUAL ADDRESS for the future.
So hopefully you can see that these things are different. One is a whole-list property that applies to posts from classes of posters (members, non-members). The other is per-poster property as a reaction to as held message from them.
Just to be sure: for this feature, is it necessary to click on the subject and to choose in the drop-down list “Discard (no notification)”, or is it enough, on the .../held_messages page, to select the messages and click on “Discard”?
Doing it from the held messages page will be a one-time thing; it is only by clicking on the individual message that you can choose an action for future messages from that address.
Cheers, Andy
On 6/26/22 08:07, Andy Smith wrote:
On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 12:37:05PM -0000, denis.bitouze@univ-littoral.fr wrote:
Just to be sure: for this feature, is it necessary to click on the subject and to choose in the drop-down list “Discard (no notification)”, or is it enough, on the .../held_messages page, to select the messages and click on “Discard”?
Doing it from the held messages page will be a one-time thing; it is only by clicking on the individual message that you can choose an action for future messages from that address.
In case the above is not clear, selecting the message and clicking Discard will only discard that message. To automatically discard all future messages from that sender, you need to set that (non-)member's moderation action to Discard which you can do by clicking on the subject and selecting the Discard moderation action from the dropdown list.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Hello,
Andy Smith wrote:
On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 12:37:05PM -0000, denis.bitouze@univ-littoral.fr wrote:
AFAICS, it is not documented since, at Postorius → Settings → Message Acceptance → Default action to take when a (non-)member posts to the list, I only read: “Discard: this simply discards the message, with no notice sent to the post's author”. So no mention that this would set it to (silently) discard all future mails from them.
Well that is because that isn't what that part does. As it says, that part is the "Default action to take when a member/non-member posts to the list". So that's where you set what you want to happen when ANY non-member posts. This is what will happen any time any non-member posts. By contrast, when you set an action on a particular held message, it is asking you want you want to do with posts from THAT INDIVIDUAL ADDRESS for the future. So hopefully you can see that these things are different. One is a whole-list property that applies to posts from classes of posters (members, non-members). The other is per-poster property as a reaction to as held message from them.
OK, I see, thanks.
Just to be sure: for this feature, is it necessary to click on the subject and to choose in the drop-down list “Discard (no notification)”, or is it enough, on the .../held_messages page, to select the messages and click on “Discard”?
Doing it from the held messages page will be a one-time thing; it is only by clicking on the individual message that you can choose an action for future messages from that address.
OK. Too bad this cannot be done from the list of messages on the .../held_messages page: it would be very helpful when you are overwhelmed by spams...
On 6/25/22 13:22, denis.bitouze@univ-littoral.fr wrote:
Mark Sapiro wrote:
They seem so to me, but in any case, if you look at Postorius -> Settings -> Message Acceptance -> Default action to take when a (non-)member posts to the list, they are described there in much more detail.
OK: not easy to figure out. A tooltip on the corresponding buttons would be helpful.
Agreed. See https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/-/issues/551
BTW, no clue about an automatic banishment of emails from discarded messages?
In the pop-up dialog from clicking the subject of a held post you can set the sender's moderation status when discarding the post.
Sorry but I can only see:
- “--- Set member moderation ---” (non selectable, I guess)
- “Hold for moderation”
- “Reject (with notification)”
- “Discard (no notification)”
- “Accept immediately (bypass other rules)”
- “Default processing”
and cannot see how I can at the same time “Discard (no notification)” and “Banish the email of the post's sender”.
If you select “Discard (no notification)” from that dropdown and then click Discard, the current message will be discarded and future messages from that sender will be automatically discarded. Is that not what you want?
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
denis.bitouze@univ-littoral.fr writes:
IMHO, even in English, “Reject” and “Discard” are not self-explanatory.
I agree, but those are the traditional terms to distinguish "return to sender without distributing" and "silently delete without distributing" in the email community, and specifically in Mailman. I don't have better one-word options ("Discard" is pretty close to optimal, for one thing). If you ask, any experienced admin or moderator can tell you what that means, and more important the implications for third parties. I doubt you will forget the meaning now that it has been explained. So I don't think changing the button labels is a good idea.
Perhaps some additional help text should be added, although I'm not sure if we have that capability already or if we would have to revise templates and CSS or even add code.
Steve
Le 26/06/22 à 10h58, Stephen J. Turnbull a écrit :
denis.bitouze@univ-littoral.fr writes:
IMHO, even in English, “Reject” and “Discard” are not self-explanatory.
I agree, but those are the traditional terms to distinguish "return to sender without distributing" and "silently delete without distributing" in the email community, and specifically in Mailman. I don't have better one-word options ("Discard" is pretty close to optimal, for one thing). If you ask, any experienced admin or moderator can tell you what that means, and more important the implications for third parties. I doubt you will forget the meaning now that it has been explained.
Indeed.
So I don't think changing the button labels is a good idea.
OK.
Perhaps some additional help text should be added, although I'm not sure if we have that capability already or if we would have to revise templates and CSS or even add code.
I understand. Anyway, another solution would be a small question mark being a link to:
┌──── │ .../postorius/lists/.../settings/message_acceptance └────
:)
Denis
participants (5)
-
Andy Smith -
Denis Bitouzé -
denis.bitouze＠univ-littoral.fr
-
Mark Sapiro -
Stephen J. Turnbull