non-member moderation: list default vs default processing
I've started testing and importing lists from Mailman2 to Mailman3. I've found that there's an inconsistency with the non-members moderation setting. As a result we have non-members unable to email a list via Mailman3 that had no problem on Mailman2.
Each time this problem has come up I've had to change the moderation setting from "List Default" to "Default Processing". But I've also noticed that some non-members were imported and already have "Default Processing" configured.
Can you help me understand what determines this setting in Mailman3?
It seems this would be something addressed via the mailman import21 option I've been using to import the lists.
Thanks.
Dan Caballero Systems Administrator Academic Computing Solutions IMSS - Caltech https://imss.caltech.edu
On 5/21/21 3:58 PM, dancab@caltech.edu wrote:
Each time this problem has come up I've had to change the moderation setting from "List Default" to "Default Processing". But I've also noticed that some non-members were imported and already have "Default Processing" configured.
Can you help me understand what determines this setting in Mailman3?
It seems this would be something addressed via the mailman import21 option I've been using to import the lists.
It depends in part on the version of Mailman core as mailman import21
has had some changes, but here's how it should work.
Regexps in MM 2.1 *_these_nonmembers are imported into the corresponding MM 3 *_these_nonmembers.
Addresses in MM 2.1 *_these_nonmembers are imported into MM 3 as
non-members with their moderation_action set to defer, hold,
'rejectordiscardaccording to which *_these_nonmembers they came from.acceptmaps todeferand the others to the same. Prior to Mailman 3.3.0,acceptmapped toacceptbutdefer` is better.
This can get very convoluted if the same address is both a member and in *_these_nonmembers, but in both MM 2.1 and MM 3, the member takes precedence.
Is this not what you are seeing?
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Sorry for any confusion. I'm specifically referring to addresses configured as "accept_these_nonmembers" in Mailman2. Upon importing to Mailman3 I see the moderation setting for most of those non-members as "Default Processing -- run additional checks and accept the message."
However, I've seen a few others set with the moderation option as "List default -- follow the list's default member action." after migrating to Mailman3. In our case that means "Hold for moderation". So we've had a couple of incidents where a user that was able to email the list just fine via Mailman2 is unable to message the list once migrated to Mailman3.
I'll try importing more lists to look for some kind of pattern now that I'm aware of this happening.
On 5/24/21 10:46 AM, dancab@caltech.edu wrote:
Sorry for any confusion. I'm specifically referring to addresses configured as "accept_these_nonmembers" in Mailman2. Upon importing to Mailman3 I see the moderation setting for most of those non-members as "Default Processing -- run additional checks and accept the message."
This is the correct result for an imported address from accept_these_nonmembers.
However, I've seen a few others set with the moderation option as "List default -- follow the list's default member action." after migrating to Mailman3. In our case that means "Hold for moderation". So we've had a couple of incidents where a user that was able to email the list just fine via Mailman2 is unable to message the list once migrated to Mailman3.
I'll try importing more lists to look for some kind of pattern now that I'm aware of this happening.
Yes. importing an address from accept_these_nonmembers should not result in a non-member with moderation_action = List Default. If you send me a config.pck that you imported that resulted in this, I'll investigate further, or perhaps you can identify the conditions that cause this.
One thing you might look at is whether the affected addresses were previously imported as members or non-members of another list.
Also, I don't know if this is possible given your list create/import scenario, but if there is a window between list creation and the import, if the non-member posts during that window, a non-member record will be created with moderation_action = List Default and the import won't change that. If this is the case, the import will print
<address> is already imported with role MemberRole.nonmember
for each such address.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Ah, yes I think you've closely described what's been happening below. The users I'm testing with aren't always forthcoming with details. So it looks like they have been moderating these intermittent senders all along but blamed Mailman3 since it's "new". I wasn't aware of the non-member record being created post moderation, so I was confused as well. I've asked them this morning about a specific list member who has an alias subscribed, but occasionally emails using their official user email and has their message moderated as a result.
They confirmed that they've always moderated those messages but never followed up to configure the address as an accepted non-member. Therefore the non-member was created and set to "List Default". I've advised that they can now follow up and adjust that setting to avoid future moderation of those addresses. Thanks again!
"Also, I don't know if this is possible given your list create/import scenario, but if there is a window between list creation and the import, if the non-member posts during that window, a non-member record will be created with moderation_action = List Default and the import won't change that."
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dancab＠caltech.edu -
Mark Sapiro