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Thank you Stephen for your questions. I have to admit that I thought about a quick and dirty solution, but you are right, it would not be optimal.

Lets see:

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Andreas Vetter writes:

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it would be real great if owners that own several lists, but are not superusers, can see all users of all *their* lists and manage them. A down-"selected" version of the superusers view.

Would that be possible?

Possible, yes. I don't know how to do it well enough to add to our distribution.

Note that owners can't actually manage users -- that really does need to be a superuser. Owners can manage subscriptions to the lists they own.

Agreed, "manage subscriptions" is what owners would need. A list of all addresses subscribed to all lists owned by the logged in person.

So first we'd want to create a new "Subscriptions" item for the top menu; the "Users" item isn't appropriate. I'm not sure who that item should be visible to. Most likely only owners, because individuals already have ways to see all their subscriptions, and it's not obvious they would want the same presentation as your superowners.

Owner is the primary target group for that. But since it should be a tool for managing subscriptions in a simple way, it might also be of interest for superusers. For me as a superuser it would make life easier.

Then you'd iterate over the logged-in owner's lists and collect all of the subscriptions. I guess you'd want them to be organized by address rather than by list. By User is out, I think -- owners can't normally see Users, and I'm unhappy abou the privacy implications of being able to correlate nole@alset.com with head@dodgy.gov in general, although I realize it's not a problem in your setting.

Ah, I see the problem and agree: So, the presentation should have a sorted and searchable list of addresses and a Button next to each address, maybe labeled "Subscriptions".

Without a more complete specification of what your users need, and the presentation they'd want to see, I personally am unwilling to go farther than those comments. Maybe one of the other devs feels differently.

The presentation given when above "Subscriptions" Button is clicked should contain the address as kind of Headline. Then a table of all lists of the logged in owner and next to each mailing list an indication, if the address is subscribed or not and a Button to toggle subscription/unsubscription. May be a single Toggle Button or (maybe better) two buttons, a suscribe and a unsubscribe button, where one is greyed out.b

In our case Delivery Status and Delivery Mode are not interesting, but others might appreciate it.

In addition my owners would like to have a "unsubscribe from all my lists" button. And a "subscribe to all my lists" button. This might be visually nicer, when having the two-button approach above.

In our case we would want to (un-)subscribe the address in a "do it, don't ask anyone" fashion, but maybe this is not a good idea in general. What do you think?

Also, "domain owner" is way under-implemented currently. For the hierarchical situation you outline, all the problems go away for domain owners. Of course then you'd need to split out lists by domain, but to me that's a small cost to preserve sanity in the structure. Yes, I agree, but policy here is to get rid of subdomains, and that falls on our feet now.

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Mit freundlichen Gruessen, Andreas Vetter