Hello everybody, I noticed that if I use a Gmail account to write to a Mailman3 list, the list receives my post and hyperkitty also archives the post, but I don't receive my own post. I have read that it is Gmail's will to automatically discard my post. Is there any way around this insane choice? Thank you in advance Max
On 10/16/20 6:58 AM, blackout69 wrote:
Hello everybody, I noticed that if I use a Gmail account to write to a Mailman3 list, the list receives my post and hyperkitty also archives the post, but I don't receive my own post. I have read that it is Gmail's will to automatically discard my post. Is there any way around this insane choice?
The short answer is No. This is a Gmail/Googlemail issue. People have complained to Google and they have refused to change. People have tried setting filters and this too is unsuccessful. Our FAQ on this is at <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030680>.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Thanks Mark for your reply, your answer confirms what I had read. I still do not agree with the choice of Gmail, but I take note and change my email address. I hope my choice will be followed by others. Max
blackout69 writes:
I noticed that if I use a Gmail account to write to a Mailman3 list,
Not just Mailman. All services that return your mail to you with the same Message-ID will be discarded.
the list receives my post and hyperkitty also archives the post, but I don't receive my own post. I have read that it is Gmail's will to automatically discard my post.
That is correct. They're quite dug in to their foxholes on this one.
Is there any way around this insane choice?
I haven't tried it but you could try setting up an alias, or failing that a separate Gmail account just for the lists. I'm not sure what happens if you use GMail as your MX (ie, access the IMAP and submission ports) and provide your own MUA, for that matter.
I get a couple hundred emails a day to my GMail account, and simply don't find it useful for large scale email processing. I could live with the lack of own posts from mailing lists, but the butt-headed insistence on top-posting I can't abide.
Thanks Stephen for your reply, I tried creating the filter on GMail as described in Mark's suggested Wiki
https://wiki.list.org/DOC/I%20don%27t%20get%20my%20own%20posts
and it worked.
Thank you Max
I was pleased to see the advice below on how to get your own list messages sent from a Google client, as my subscribers complain about their messages going AWOL all the time. Alas, it has the following note at the bottom:
"I have tested this and while it seems to work, it doesn't. What the filter does is put a copy of the sent message in your inbox as it is sent so it appears that you received the list post, but the message in your inbox is the same message that's in your sent folder. It's not the message received from the list.”
Do those messages really show up in the spam folder without this filter? (I don’t use Gmail). If so, then the server is, indeed, sending the message to the mail client, and the mail client is doing the message ID linking locally, discarding the incoming duplicate. Would a change in mail client solve that? If so, then problem solved by a work-around. If not, then how can the filter above work?
And pardon my top-posting. :-)
Yours,
Allan Hansen hansen@rc.org
On Oct 18, 2020, at 3:35 , Massimo Zappalà <maszap69@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Stephen for your reply, I tried creating the filter on GMail as described in Mark's suggested Wiki
https://wiki.list.org/DOC/I%20don%27t%20get%20my%20own%20posts
and it worked.
Thank you Max
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On 10/18/20 5:46 AM, Allan Hansen wrote:
I was pleased to see the advice below on how to get your own list messages sent from a Google client, as my subscribers complain about their messages going AWOL all the time. Alas, it has the following note at the bottom:
"I have tested this and while it seems to work, it doesn't. What the filter does is put a copy of the sent message in your inbox as it is sent so it appears that you received the list post, but the message in your inbox is the same message that's in your sent folder. It's not the message received from the list.”
Do those messages really show up in the spam folder without this filter? (I don’t use Gmail).
No, they do not.
If so, then the server is, indeed, sending the message to the mail client, and the mail client is doing the message ID linking locally, discarding the incoming duplicate. Would a change in mail client solve that?
This is a Google thing. It does not depend on the client. I.e., it is the same regardless of whether your client is Gmail's web mail or a Gmail phone app or some other imap or pop3 client accessing gmail.
The message is sent from the list server to the recipient's gmail/googlemail MTA and that MTA determines the Message-ID is a dup of one in the sent folder and discards it.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
On 10/18/20 3:35 AM, Massimo Zappalà wrote:
Thanks Stephen for your reply, I tried creating the filter on GMail as described in Mark's suggested Wiki
https://wiki.list.org/DOC/I%20don%27t%20get%20my%20own%20posts
and it worked.
Did you read the note at the bottom of that article? Are you sure the message in your inbox is actually the message received from the list with the added headers and perhaps subject prefix and list footer, or is it just a copy of the message as you sent it?
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Allan Hansen writes:
I was pleased to see the advice below on how to get your own list messages sent from a Google client, as my subscribers complain about their messages going AWOL all the time.
Do those messages really show up in the spam folder without this filter? (I don’t use Gmail).
No. They don't show up *at all*. GMail puts a copy of the sent mail in the sent folder, not in the INBOX. Because it has not left the MUA, it has no trace header fields at all, only the fields required by RFC 822 plus any fields the user has populated. This makes it completely useless for debugging mail problems. It then discards the post returned from the mailing list.
If so, then the server is, indeed, sending the message to the mail client,
I'm not sure what you mean by the server. If you mean the Mailman list, yes, it is sending the message in the case in point.
and the mail client is doing the message ID linking locally, discarding the incoming duplicate.
"Mail client" is ambiguous here. There are a large number of roles involved, any of which may be implemented as a separate program (and the user is always a separate program ;-).
- User == you.
- Message user agent (MUA), which fetches messages from a message store (file, maildir, POP server, IMAP server), displays it to the user, and provides commands for the user to manipulate the message in various ways.
- Message store, which keeps a database of messages received from the message delivery agent.
- Message delivery agent (MDA), which accepts messages from the message transfer agent, and delivers them to applications such as message stores.
- Message transfer agent (MTA), which accepts messages from the Internet, and delivers them to the MDA.
Duplicate handling (which is a special case of filtering) can be implemented in any of those roles, but we can assume the user is not doing it. If she were, we'd just tell her to stop.
Would a change in mail client solve that?
No, the issue is that users want to use a particular client, Gmail. Even if they're willing to change:
If so, then problem solved by a work-around. If not, then how can the filter above work?
If user-defined filters are implemented in the same program as deduplication, then they're just alternative targets for delivery, where deduplication uses the target /dev/null. If the user says "send those messages to a particular folder," that should override the program's defaults. What seems possible here is that Google implements message filters in the message store, and deduplication in the MDA. In that case the filter can't work. But you'd have to ask Google to be sure.
Steve
Did you read the note at the bottom of that article? Are you sure the message in your inbox is actually the message received from the list with the added headers and perhaps subject prefix and list footer, or is it just a copy of the message as you sent it?
It's just an automatic copy of the posts I have written, but useful for following the post history. Better than nothing. A useful compromise. To me it only serves to follow the history of the discussions made in the various threads. Obviously the final solution is NOT to use GMail. Max
participants (5)
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Allan Hansen -
blackout69 -
Mark Sapiro -
Massimo Zappalà
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Stephen J. Turnbull