MASS mailing list import - 900 ezmlm lists to Mailman
Hi, I hope someone can help. I have 900-ish, mostly small lists, basically all locations round the globe where people have volunteered to help particular people passing though. Those lists have 2 to 200 people. There are about 50 lists of up to 1000 people each we use for announcements. So two different setups, and a whole lot of manual work. I am moving from an old, now unreliable, host to a new one. Hopefully reliable, certainly cheaper, and better for privacy GDPR etc regs. Mailman is already installed, appears to be version 82?? on cPanel 108.0.15. Ezmlm, no surprise, is not. Installing and configuring it is not something trivial, also have to install gmail etc. Yuck. So, Mailman... going through to create one, I can see that 900 will be my life's work. I'm not a programmer, but reasonably technical, write html, css skills poor but adequate, command line isn't tooo scary, MySQL I don't go near. DOS batch files no problem! :) ANY IDEAS / suggestions appreciated! Thanks, Grant
On 4/18/23 17:41, grant@horizonsunlimited.com wrote:
Hi, I hope someone can help. I have 900-ish, mostly small lists, basically all locations round the globe where people have volunteered to help particular people passing though. Those lists have 2 to 200 people. There are about 50 lists of up to 1000 people each we use for announcements. So two different setups, and a whole lot of manual work. I am moving from an old, now unreliable, host to a new one. Hopefully reliable, certainly cheaper, and better for privacy GDPR etc regs. Mailman is already installed, appears to be version 82?? on cPanel 108.0.15. Ezmlm, no surprise, is not. Installing and configuring it is not something trivial, also have to install gmail etc. Yuck.
First of all, cPanel Mailman is most likely 2.1.38. This list is for Mailman 3. The appropriate list for Mailman 2.1 is mailman-users@python.org <https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/>. This search <https://mail.python.org/archives/search?mlist=mailman-users%40python.org&q=ezmlm> finds 169 posts mentioning ezmlm. Some of those might be relevant to importing lists from ezmlm.
Also see <https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20CPanel> and be aware that Mailman 2.1 is end of life.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Thanks Mark, I suspected EOL on 2, thus looking at 3. Annoying that cPanel is taking so long to upgrade. I'll check out the link for conversion, thanks!
Hi, Grant,
Aside from Mark's suggestions, a few comments. First, I wouldn't depend on any software to help you with GDPR; it's still an labor-intensive regulation, and conforming to it doesn't even guarantee you won't violate the regulations of member countries. For some lists Mailman's anonymous list configuration may help you preserve privacy, it's pretty good at removing PII from the (usually invisible, but trivial to expose) message header.
Second, apparently you have the necessary authorization to install software on the new host. If so you should consider going straight to Mailman 3. Who knows when cPanel will make the jump, but I can say they have been watching Mailman 3 development for a few years now, and with both Mailman 2 and Python 2 EOL they're probably thinking seriously about it within the life of your lists.
One advantage to Mailman 3 over Mailman 2 is that there are several UIs and APIs for configuring lists, giving you more options for batch configuration. Installation is pretty straightforward, configuration is somewhat complicated but anybody subscribed to this list can help (and frequently does before the devs get to it). Both versions of Mailman support announcement lists and plain old discussion lists well. I forget about Mailman 2, but Mailman 3 has a "style" you can select at list creation time to set it up for announcements.
Third, if the ezmlm list configuration database is well-documented, I don't see why it would be difficult to write a batch script to mass-convert ezmlm lists to Mailman 3 lists. We already have one to do that for Mailman 2 to Mailman 3 that would serve as a template. I don't know what the level of tech for conversion *to* Mailman *2* is, there might be something already available (I haven't managed anything but Mailman lists since 1997... 😮). Unfortunately, if anybody would know if *we* would have such a thing, Mark would, so since he didn't mention one I guess you have to look elsewhere.
Fourth, Mailman 2 doesn't use an external database (configurations are in a Python-specific format and the archives are just a static website), but Mailman 3 plays well with the usual suspects = MySQL and PostgreSQL, and also supports SQLite3. ISTR either seeing list members talking about using Oracle or some documentation of it; presumably you can use anything that the SQLAlchemy Python package supports.
The only potential disadvantage I can see to Mailman 3 over Mailman 2 is that if you ever need to redact stuff from the archives, for Mailman 2 you can use an ordinary editor but for Mailman 3's bundled archiver HyperKitty it's a database operation, so you'll need to either learn those skills or befriend/pay for someone who has them.
Be happy to help with more specific questions.
From: grant@horizonsunlimited.com <grant@horizonsunlimited.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2023 9:41 AM To: mailman-users@mailman3.org <mailman-users@mailman3.org> Subject: [MM3-users] MASS mailing list import - 900 ezmlm lists to Mailman
Hi, I hope someone can help. I have 900-ish, mostly small lists, basically all locations round the globe where people have volunteered to help particular people passing though. Those lists have 2 to 200 people. There are about 50 lists of up to 1000 people each we use for announcements. So two different setups, and a whole lot of manual work. I am moving from an old, now unreliable, host to a new one. Hopefully reliable, certainly cheaper, and better for privacy GDPR etc regs. Mailman is already installed, appears to be version 82?? on cPanel 108.0.15. Ezmlm, no surprise, is not. Installing and configuring it is not something trivial, also have to install gmail etc. Yuck. So, Mailman... going through to create one, I can see that 900 will be my life's work. I'm not a programmer, but reasonably technical, write html, css skills poor but adequate, command line isn't tooo scary, MySQL I don't go near. DOS batch files no problem! :) ANY IDEAS / suggestions appreciated! Thanks, Grant
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This message sent to turnbull.stephen.fw@u.tsukuba.ac.jp
Stephen, wow a wealth of information there! Thanks! To answer / explain a few things in more detail:
1: GDPR - we don't archive any lists, period, ever. Once an email goes through, it's done. So that shouldn't be a big issue. (that also takes care of the redact issue you mentioned) We are as compliant in all respects as possible, and we have had little issue with anyone, maybe 10-15 requests for GDPR level removal since it came out. It seems to me that Mailman 3 is the way to go, perhaps it will last as long as 2 did, so one less upgrade to do.
2: FWIW - we're trying very hard to REDUCE effort, and reduce costs. We're getting off a mixed Drupal 6 /8 and vBulletin environment for just that reason. That's ALSO part of the reason for the move. And we've been running this for 25 years, and I'm technically well past retirement age, so I'm looking to have some time for me. Time to get out and ride my motorcycles more. :)
3: Batch script to mass convert - not me! I suspect I COULD - but the time involved is no way worth it to me.
4: MySQL is available for as many db's as needed, so that's fine.
Hosting the lists is a thought, but again, trying to reduce costs, and since my server already HAS mailman 2, that seems unnecessary.
So, it comes down to, in my mind: A script to convert my ezmlm lists to EITHER Mailman 2 or 3 If 2, there is apparently a script to upgrade to 3 anyway, and cPanel will eventually upgrade to 3. If 3, need to install 3 on my server (VPS) - not sure how involved that is, but should be doable.
I did get a couple of DM's re hosting a list, one even suggested they can do the conversion, so will check out if they will do the conversion for a reasonable fee.
thanks for your help, and to anyone else who has ideas!
Couple of points:
2023-04-20 07:37 に grant@horizonsunlimited.com さんは書きました:
I'm looking to have some time for me. Time to get out and ride my motorcycles more. :)
Mark takes a month off every year to ride his bicycle into the wilds.
We definitely encourage our admins to ride more!
3: Batch script to mass convert - not me! I suspect I COULD - but the time involved is no way worth it to me.
As long as you have access to the (*nix) host, I suspect we'd be happy to write the script. The problem is the ezmlm list config database.
Hosting the lists is a thought, but again, trying to reduce costs, and since my server already HAS mailman 2, that seems unnecessary. I did get a couple of DM's re hosting a list, one even suggested they can do the conversion, so will check out if they will do the conversion for a reasonable fee.
I understand that your users are unlikely to be massive donors, but maybe you could spend the time saved on administration on applying for grants. I wouldn't be surprised if the telephone operators at an organization like the Gates Foundation have authority to grant a $9.98/month hosting service. :-)
Good luck on finding a good deal, and let us know if we can help.
Thanks for the thoughts!
It might be easiest to simply go to the currently supported cPanel version of Mailman installed on the server is 2.1.39.
In theory - and we all know what that means - when they upgrade to 3, there will be a script to do the conversion, and I think if what I read is correct, there already is, but in this case it would be up to the server admins to do it, not me :)
So - if someone thinks they can do the ezmlm to Mailman 2.1.39, talk to me, let's see what we can work out.
Gates foundation huh... I'll have a look! :)
Thanks!
participants (4)
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grant＠horizonsunlimited.com -
Mark Sapiro -
Stephen Turnbull -
turnbull