Under Users for a list, there is a category for List nonmembers. What does this term mean? [It's rather curious philosophically when you think about it, because I would have thought that the category [all humans - list members] fits that category term.]
But seriously, I don't understand it. I have several email addresses there and I don't know what do with them, if anything.
Andrew
On 7/8/19 6:50 PM, Andrew Bernard wrote:
Under Users for a list, there is a category for List nonmembers. What does this term mean? [It's rather curious philosophically when you think about it, because I would have thought that the category [all humans - list members] fits that category term.]
But seriously, I don't understand it. I have several email addresses there and I don't know what do with them, if anything.
Non-members are email addresses that are not members but have some connection to a list. Mailman 2.1 lists have attributes named accept_these_nonmembers, hold_these_nonmembers, reject_these_nonmembers and discard_these_nonmembers. These are lists of non-member addresses and regexps matching addresses, and posts from a non-member address in one of the lists will be accepted, held, rejected or discarded respectively.
Mailman 3 does this differently. An address can be a non-member and that non-member record has a moderation setting to determine how a post from that non-member is handled.
An address can become a non-member by being imported from Mailman 2.1 or by posting to the list. If a non-member posts to the list, a non-member record is created regardless of the disposition of the post. See <https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/src/mailman/chains/docs/moderation.html#nonmembers>.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Andrew Bernard writes:
Under Users for a list, there is a category for List nonmembers. What does this term mean? [It's rather curious philosophically when you think about it, because I would have thought that the category [all humans - list members] fits that category term.]
I don't recall the exact definition of "list member", but I can't resist explaining the "philosophy". :-)
In the mail system as a whole, what we can confirm is a mailable mailbox. That corresponds to an *address* in Mailman. But users (typically humans) often have multiple addresses, that they would like to configure together (eg, single signon, same setting for not-me-too, etc). Thus we have a *user* concept, which requires a agent to log in and establish a *user* and attach addresses to it. I don't remember the exact details, but both *users* and *addresses* can exist independently of the other, though they are normally linked. Finally, a *subscription* is a link between an *address* and a *mailing list*.
ISTR that merging *users* in the database is kind of annoying, so instead of automatically creating a *user* to back every known *address* (eg, when banned or moderated), the *address* is allowed to participate in the list as a banned or moderated address without being related to a *user*. There may be other cases where an *address* lacks a *user*.
I'm pretty sure there are ways in Postorius to create a *user* that has no *addresses*, although I've not tried, and I don't know if such Postorius users would be reflected in the core database.
Steve
On Mon, Jul 8, 2019, at 8:40 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Andrew Bernard writes:
Under Users for a list, there is a category for List nonmembers. What does this term mean? [It's rather curious philosophically when you think about it, because I would have thought that the category [all humans - list members] fits that category term.]
I don't recall the exact definition of "list member", but I can't resist explaining the "philosophy". :-)
In the mail system as a whole, what we can confirm is a mailable mailbox. That corresponds to an *address* in Mailman. But users (typically humans) often have multiple addresses, that they would like to configure together (eg, single signon, same setting for not-me-too, etc). Thus we have a *user* concept, which requires a agent to log in and establish a *user* and attach addresses to it. I don't remember the exact details, but both *users* and *addresses* can exist independently of the other, though they are normally linked. Finally, a *subscription* is a link between an *address* and a *mailing list*.
ISTR that merging *users* in the database is kind of annoying, so instead of automatically creating a *user* to back every known *address* (eg, when banned or moderated), the *address* is allowed to participate in the list as a banned or moderated address without being related to a *user*. There may be other cases where an *address* lacks a *user*.
I'm pretty sure there are ways in Postorius to create a *user* that has no *addresses*, although I've not tried, and I don't know if such Postorius users would be reflected in the core database.
That's not True anymore, signing in to Postorius/Hyperkitty requires you to have an email address and that address is propagated to Core (unless, Core is down, which wouldn't block the sign-up process and would result in a Postorius only user) synchronously using sign-up and sign-in hooks in Django.
Steve
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-- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)
Abhilash Raj writes:
I'm pretty sure there are ways in Postorius to create a *user* that has no *addresses*, although I've not tried, and I don't know if such Postorius users would be reflected in the core database.
That's not True anymore, signing in to Postorius/Hyperkitty requires you to have an email address
Creating a User does, or logging in does? Specifically, wouldn't it be possible to create a User, then remove all the addresses?
On Tue, Jul 9, 2019, at 10:01 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Abhilash Raj writes:
I'm pretty sure there are ways in Postorius to create a *user* that has no *addresses*, although I've not tried, and I don't know if such Postorius users would be reflected in the core database.
That's not True anymore, signing in to Postorius/Hyperkitty requires you to have an email address
Creating a User does, or logging in does? Specifically, wouldn't it be possible to create a User, then remove all the addresses?
I don't know if there is a way to create a user without signup/signin, both of which needs an email address.
Even Core's API requires that you provide a required argument "email" when creating a User. I haven't looked closely enough to figure out if we can delete the primary (and only, the last one) address of a user at all.
-- thanks, Abhilash Raj (maxking)
participants (4)
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Abhilash Raj -
Andrew Bernard -
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Stephen J. Turnbull