Adding my $0.02:
On Wednesday, April 8th, 2026 at 10:29, alain williams addw@phcomp.co.uk wrote:
On Wed, Apr 08, 2026 at 11:07:42PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
To the best of my knowledge, the recommended installation documents at https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html are complete and straightforward for "typical" one-domain installations.
No they are not. I struggled, part of the reason is that I am not imbued in the python mindset and the documentation is written assuming that background. So I used the Debian package and a lot of work was needed on top of that. There are still problems: it is a resource hog and parts crash - generating large numbers of incomprehensible emails (I have talked about here, no real help).
Mailman2 was a dream, simple to install and just worked. MM3 has some nice features (eg using a SQL database) but is a pig -- far more than it should be. I know other sysadmins who gave up and went with different list managers; if I
was starting again I would do likewise.mailto:rm55@cybercontradiction.org
I replaced a long-time Mailman2 install (20+ years) with Mailman3 at the beginning of March.
I made a go at the official installation and balked. I didn't want all of the "venv" Python stuff, basically. It seems to me that is an advanced option, but it is provided as the official option.
I found an RPM that hasn't made it yet to any official repo. I'm looking for any official announcements for updates to Mailman3 (especially security) and will make my own updated RPM if I need to. Being able to use a package manager for a repeatable (and non-complex) install is probably what a lot of sites are looking for. I also like the use of systemd mechanisms including timers, which makes Mailman fit in better with the rest of the OS.
None of that means ingratitude to the Mailman3 developers and to whoever wrote the official install docs. I agree though that the complexity of the Mailman3 install is probably what keeps sites on Mailman2.
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