On 9/16/22 16:40, Allan Hansen wrote:
Hi Mark,
Thank you for looking into it.
We are very strict about memberships, which we are because of spam, bots and malicious contributors and because we don't want anyone to think that our lists are used for spam:
When a user applies, the server sends a message to the moderator. The moderator communicates with the potential member and accepts or does not accept the application.
So Subscription policy is Moderate or Confirm, then moderate.
At this point, if the user has not been accepted, but tried to send a message to the list, a non-member membership is created.
Yes. This is expected.
When he/she logs in to list his/her account, the list to which he/she holds non-memberships will be listed and the user will think that he/she has been properly subscribed (why else are the lists listed).
I'm guessing you are talking about the https://www.example.com/mailman3/accounts/subscriptions/ page. On that page, all membership roles (owner, moderator, member, nonmember) are listed.
Note that if the user goes instead to info page for the list, appropriate pronoun will be presented with a subscribe form.
Noone notices the column that shows the role as 'nonmember.' So he/she thinks that the subscription request has been accepted, but nothing is working. That's why the 'non-member' record is an issue. I also don't see why non-members are automatically added, filling up the database with junk (at least from our point of view, with all respect).
That's the way Mailman 3 is designed. Changing it would be a major undertaking.
Consider the case where default nonmember action is hold rather than discard. Then when handling a nonmember post, the moderator can set the nonmember's moderation to default processing to essentially accept future posts from that nonmember if the nonmember has a legitimate reason to post, or to discard if the nonmember is a spammer.
If you think it would help, you might consider colorizing the roles on that page so perhaps nonmember could be in red. This should be a simple patch to Postorius.
But our lists don't accept messages from non-members. Such messages are quietly discarded, as most are spam, as mentioned above. So now the user is neither getting emails from the lists nor is unable to send messages to the list. The next step for the user is to complain to me. ☹
Why didn't you (or the moderator) accept the held subscription at the beginning?
I have looked for a template that could be used to warn someone when he/she is added as a non-member, but did not find one. It's also not clear that I'd want one, as most of these non-subscriptions are by spammers and I prefer not to reply to spammers. __
I tried your suggestion below, Mark. Here's my transcript:
Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell Use commit() to commit changes. Use abort() to discard changes since the last commit. Exit with ctrl+D does an implicit commit() but exit() does not.
lm = getUtility(IListManager) for l in lm: ... for nm in l.nonmembers.members: ... nm.unsubscribe() ...
I did this twice, once with commit() and once typing ctrl/d (ctrl/D) just gave me a beep. Calling commit() did not return to the ... as in your example, but showed the >>> prompt, so I tried ctrl/D (beep) and then ctrl/d (exit).
My example did not show a ... in response to commit(). Commit() was
followed by three backticks which is markup for the end if the literal
text. The >>> following commit() is expected.
Either calling commit() explicitly or exiting with ctrl-D should commit the changes.
I then went to the Postorius page for one of the lists and found that all the non-members were still present.
I don't know why this would be. I tested that script and it worked for me.
My original point is the presence of a nonmember role should not prevent the user from subscribing. If there is an issue with subscribing it is probably because of the outstanding subscription request waiting moderator approval.
I understand that you would like the nonmember role to disappear, but that isn't going to happen in the distribution, and I can't undertake the extensive effort required to figure out how you can do it for your site.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan