Hi Mark,
Thank you for looking into it.
We are very strict about memberships, which we are because of spam, bots and malicious contributors and because we don't want anyone to think that our lists are used for spam:
When a user applies, the server sends a message to the moderator.
The moderator communicates with the potential member and accepts or does not accept the application.At this point, if the user has not been accepted, but tried to send a message to the list, a non-member membership is created. When he/she logs in to list his/her account, the list to which he/she holds non-memberships will be listed and the user will think that he/she has been properly subscribed (why else are the lists listed). Noone notices the column that shows the role as 'nonmember.' So he/she thinks that the subscription request has been accepted, but nothing is working. That's why the 'non-member' record is an issue. I also don't see why non-members are automatically added, filling up the database with junk (at least from our point of view, with all respect).
But our lists don't accept messages from non-members. Such messages are quietly discarded, as most are spam, as mentioned above. So now the user is neither getting emails from the lists nor is unable to send messages to the list. The next step for the user is to complain to me. ☹
I have looked for a template that could be used to warn someone when he/she is added as a non-member, but did not find one. It's also not clear that I'd want one, as most of these non-subscriptions are by spammers and I prefer not to reply to spammers. __
I tried your suggestion below, Mark. Here's my transcript:
Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell Use commit() to commit changes. Use abort() to discard changes since the last commit. Exit with ctrl+D does an implicit commit() but exit() does not.
lm = getUtility(IListManager) for l in lm: ... for nm in l.nonmembers.members: ... nm.unsubscribe() ...
I did this twice, once with commit() and once typing ctrl/d (ctrl/D) just gave me a beep. Calling commit() did not return to the ... as in your example, but showed the >>> prompt, so I tried ctrl/D (beep) and then ctrl/d (exit). I then went to the Postorius page for one of the lists and found that all the non-members were still present.
Yours,
AllanOn 9/16/22, 15:01 , "Mark Sapiro" <mark@msapiro.net> wrote:
On 9/16/22 11:19, Allan Hansen wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> This is a bit of an emergency:
>
> I am getting a bunch of complaints from potential list members of my lists that they can't subscribe and they don't get messages. Apparently, the issue is that they are non-members. I have never created any non-members but looking at the docs it seems that if someone sends a message to the list, they automatically become non-members.
> For individuals I have been able to delete their non-membership and they then could subscribe properly.
I don't understand. the fact that an address is a non-member of a list
should not impact subscribing that address as a member.
> I have looked at some of my most popular lists and they have hundreds of non-members! It will take me an awful amount of time to remove each one manually, and not doing it - handling each as they complain - is also a lot of waste of time and cause of frustration for all involved.
What is actually happening when the non-member attempts to subscribe as
a member? What do they do and what it the result?
> I have tried scripting it with delmember, but it does not take the '-r nonmember' option ('findmember' does!).
>
> Can anyone help me find out how to
> a. delete all non-members of all my lists
If you have access to `mailman shell` you could do:
```
$ mailman shell
Welcome to the GNU Mailman shell
Use commit() to commit changes.
Use abort() to discard changes since the last commit.
Exit with ctrl+D does an implicit commit() but exit() does not.
>>> lm = getUtility(IListManager)
>>> for l in lm:
... for nm in l.nonmembers.members:
... nm.unsubscribe()
...
>>> commit()
```
> b. prevent MM3 from creating new non-members in the future (so I don't have to keep removing them)
nonmembers are an integral part of Mailman 3's architecture. The basic
idea is a nonmember has a moderation action and setting a nonmembers
moderation replaces MM 2.1's adding that address to one of
*_these_nonmembers (The legacy *_these_nonmembers attributes still
exist, but only to support regexps).
It would require extensive modification to not create nonmembers.
However, I still don't understand why the presence of a nonmember record
is an issue.
--
Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
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