On 2/25/21 10:35 PM, Abhilash Raj wrote:
I think it is okay to be pick up a specific configuration and provide a guide to installation keeping that as the target technology. As it happens to be, the official doc uses the same set, Nginx, Postfix and PostgSQL.
Thank you for pointing the above out. I will keep track of the URLs you provided in this thread and I am willing to also assist to try to make sure such links are propagated via search engine results.
I don't see anything very specific to Debian in the doc except the package names and I think they are similar enough in Debian derivative distros that we can write up that assumption up front in the top.
Given that most of the installation is based off on pip, I don't think there is going to be a *lot* of deviation for even RHEL/Fedora based distros when it comes to Mailman itself. Some minute deviations could occur with the behavior of certain commands, like
nanodoesn't exist, but I still expect 95% of the doc to be the same, except obviously the package names.
I agree. One of my goals was to make it easy for Mailman 3 adopters to use a different installation method other than a repo since distro packages tend to install older versions of Mailman 3 core, Postorius, and Hyperkitty. At this stage of Mailman 3 development, these new versions bring a LOT of improvements to the Mailman 3 user.
I am also willing to start testing out my installation method on other distros and document the differences. If you are willing to help me, I have no problem posting installation instructions and tips to Mailman 3's official documentation. I am also more than willing to keep such documentation up to date. I am always being called upon to install Mailman 3 for someone, so I seem to be on the front-line when it comes to "surprises" such as the issue with the cryptography module. That puts me in a good position to update documentation simply because I need to know such things for the next install.
I am not that well versed in SEO, but the official website https://list.org does point to it. Maybe not prominently enough for new users to discover? I'll see if we can make the discovery of docs.mailman3.org better.
I think the issue I found was running into outdated documentation for older versions of Mailman 3. Even doing a search for an up to date changelog or release notes are problematic. Again, I am also willing to help out with trying to get such vital pieces of information showing up prominently in search results.
I guess it is fine to be opinionated about choosing the technologies but yet provide pointers to help people using other technologies.
Right now, I do that using "Hints" and "Notes" and "See also" banners through out the documentation to point to different pages where they can lookup setup for other technologies. For example, how to setup MySQL if official doc recommends Postgres.
Are there still any outstanding issues with using MySQL? I know I ran into some when I tried to use MySQL and chose to go with PostgreSQL (which I am so glad I did). I still recall even seeing some recent issues brought to this list for someone using MySQL. I know MySQL is very popular for websites so I do believe the momentum for someone to set up a Mailman 3 server is to go with MySQL. Perhaps just putting up some heads up warnings (here there be dragons!) IF there are still issues out in the wild for those wanting to use MySQL with Mailman 3. Personally I will always steer clients to PostgreSQL when I get a chance. My own documentation reflects that bias.
Gitlab has a fairly good experience editing REsT files and you don't necessarily have to do much outside of a Web Browser actually. It lets you preview before saving like wiki.list.org and you can submit it for review and merging into main repo.
Would you be more willing to contribute to official documentation if we documented the Gitlab contribution process better?
Absolutely. My current installation documentation was the result of a certain beautiful Mailman developer who I won't name (just protecting your privacy Mark!) providing me assistance when I decided to go with the certain installation direction. So if you scratch my back (i.e. teach me Master for I am your student!) then I will scratch yours.
Because we haven't yet gotten to updating those in the official docs, unfortunately. And there are more things missing like Fulltext search (Xapian recommended) and more of the Email setup like SPF and DKIM. Very much aligned with your plans, which is why I suggested contributing updates to docs.mailman3.org instead :)
Well show me how to update the documentation and I will certainly take care of those things. I am also now comfortable in getting OpenDKIM working with Mailman 3 so I can also provide documentation there as well. I have done Xapian installations for clients but unfortunately did not document my methods so I will need to work on that. How do you feel about documentation for the use of Elasticsearch and Solr?
Remember, I was a Mailman 2 host for years using cPanel. cPanel took the thinking of out a lot of things when it came to Mailman 2 hosting and I don't have that crutch anymore with Mailman 3.
-- Brian Carpenter Harmonylists.com Emwd.com