Our group of 30 plus people have the perennial problem in MM II of not checking previous messages before replying.
A second problem is starting a new topic rather than responding to a message in the same topic, which makes searching even harder.
I previously suggested a forum or something like Stack or Flock. People had no interest in a Word Press forum yet moan about the inefficiency of a list, also it is something new and involves leaving email. Stack and Flock make it hard to require all to be a member of all topics in their free versions.
Then it occurred to me, the threaded view in Mailman III looks good and could help us nudge people back on topic.
Am I being too optimistic.
It is a closed group only open to people we approve.
I would like to migrate to MM III but lack the technical skills to fo this? Anyone who could do this for a fee?
We probably do not need to bring in the old topics. (I guess there us no way like a forum to limit the topics but at least we could keep things on track).
Thanks
Paul Arenson Japan Association for Language Teaching
Sent from my iPhone
Well, I have looked here to see my previous post (and to check how the archives look), but i do not see the below. post.
Am I missing something.
ARCHIVE I SEARCHED
https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/ <https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/>
The thread: Re: [MM3-users] Using as a forum
Can someone advise?
Thank you
On Aug 30, 2018, at 11:18, tokyoprogressive@mailbox.org <paul@arenson.org> wrote:
Our group of 30 plus people have the perennial problem in MM II of not checking previous messages before replying.
A second problem is starting a new topic rather than responding to a message in the same topic, which makes searching even harder.
I previously suggested a forum or something like Stack or Flock. People had no interest in a Word Press forum yet moan about the inefficiency of a list, also it is something new and involves leaving email. Stack and Flock make it hard to require all to be a member of all topics in their free versions.
Then it occurred to me, the threaded view in Mailman III looks good and could help us nudge people back on topic.
Am I being too optimistic.
It is a closed group only open to people we approve.
I would like to migrate to MM III but lack the technical skills to fo this? Anyone who could do this for a fee?
We probably do not need to bring in the old topics. (I guess there us no way like a forum to limit the topics but at least we could keep things on track).
Thanks
Paul Arenson Japan Association for Language Teaching
Sent from my iPhone
Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users@mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave@mailman3.org https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/
On 8/30/18 6:40 AM, paul@arenson.org wrote:
Well, I have looked here to see my previous post (and to check how the archives look), but i do not see the below. post.
Am I missing something.
ARCHIVE I SEARCHED
https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/ <https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/>
The thread: Re: [MM3-users] Using as a forum
Can someone advise?
It is being archived. You can find it here
https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/F...
You can see it listed here
https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/2018/8/
Hyperkitty has a "little" problem with caching and cache-invalidation...
On 08/30/2018 02:59 AM, Simon Hanna wrote:
It is being archived. You can find it here
https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/F...
You can see it listed here
https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/2018/8/
Hyperkitty has a "little" problem with caching and cache-invalidation...
And various searches such as "forum" will also find it. It is unclear why it doesn't appear in the "Recently active discussions" list on the overview even though I've stopped and started qcluster, gunicorn (the wsgi server for Django) and mailman.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Thank you to all for helping me find it.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 31, 2018, at 1:12, Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> wrote:
On 08/30/2018 02:59 AM, Simon Hanna wrote:
It is being archived. You can find it here
https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/F...
You can see it listed here
https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/2018/8/
Hyperkitty has a "little" problem with caching and cache-invalidation...
And various searches such as "forum" will also find it. It is unclear why it doesn't appear in the "Recently active discussions" list on the overview even though I've stopped and started qcluster, gunicorn (the wsgi server for Django) and mailman.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mailman-users mailing list -- mailman-users@mailman3.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave@mailman3.org https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.mailman3.org/
So i guess it is too early to install? Or moce up from Mailman 2?
There is something call Fud Forum which both acts as a reader for existing mailing lists (Mailman II?) or you can start a forum there and post by email. But have not gotten word on well it works. Maybe I should hold out for MM III?
Hi again. I take it the lack of responses mean I should wait it out a little longer?
I was considering, as mentioned, Fed Forum (but not much help in setting up), Slack and Flock. Would all mean more work than I can afford.
Which is why upgrading from Mailman 2 to 2 still seems like the best idea.
We would then have the perfect upgrade to Mailman 2, where people could more easily find their topics (aided by a lot of nudging to be proactive in choosing the topic to post in and not doing thread hijacking).
I looked to see if there was anyone doing this sort of service. All I could find is someone doing their own hosting called https://mailman3.com/.
I would much prefer to upgrade my C-Panel installation of the lists, which by the way are here:
https://gale-sig.org/mailman/listinfo/galemembers_gale-sig.org https://gale-sig.org/mailman/listinfo/galeexec_gale-sig.org
Any estimate on if/when I would be able to upgrade these c-panel forums (or possibly get someone to help me move them?)
Thanks paul in Fukuoka, Japan
On 09/03/2018 06:13 PM, Paul Arenson wrote:
Hi again. I take it the lack of responses mean I should wait it out a little longer?
It's of course up to you, but I recommend Mailman 3. There are still some rough edges, and there are a number of settings not yet exposed in Postorius, but we are working on it and it is quite usable today.
I was considering, as mentioned, Fed Forum (but not much help in setting up), Slack and Flock. Would all mean more work than I can afford.
Which is why upgrading from Mailman 2 to 2 still seems like the best idea.
We would then have the perfect upgrade to Mailman 2, where people could more easily find their topics (aided by a lot of nudging to be proactive in choosing the topic to post in and not doing thread hijacking).
Do you mean Mailman 3?
I looked to see if there was anyone doing this sort of service. All I could find is someone doing their own hosting called https://mailman3.com/.
mailman3.com is a Mailman 3 hosting service unaffiliated with the GNU Mailman project.
I would much prefer to upgrade my C-Panel installation of the lists, which by the way are here:
https://gale-sig.org/mailman/listinfo/galemembers_gale-sig.org https://gale-sig.org/mailman/listinfo/galeexec_gale-sig.org
Any estimate on if/when I would be able to upgrade these c-panel forums (or possibly get someone to help me move them?)
I suspect it will be some time before Cpanel offers Mailman 3. It is fairly straightforward to migrate an existing Mailman 2.1 list and it's archives to Mailman 3, but it requires access to the underlying Mailman 2 file system which you may not have in a hosted cPanel environment.
See <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/migration.html> for more on migration.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
It's of course up to you, but I recommend Mailman 3. There are still some rough edges, and there are a number of settings not yet exposed in Postorius, but we are working on it and it is quite usable today.
Thank you, Mark. My thoughts now. I have used nothing but MM for ages so will wait…. And it would require less convincing for the two groups I host
Which is why upgrading from Mailman 2 to 2 still seems like the best idea.
Do you mean Mailman 3?
OOPS!! yes.
I suspect it will be some time before Cpanel offers Mailman 3. It is fairly straightforward to migrate an existing Mailman 2.1 list and it's archives to Mailman 3, but it requires access to the underlying Mailman 2 file system which you may not have in a hosted cPanel environment.
See <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/migration.html> for more on migration.
Thanks. I had a look just now.
I suspect we won’t worry about broken URL links. Most people check archives to try to keep track of a conversation. With difficultly now, but much easier in MAILMAN 3. And going forward, they might just be motivated to post from the archives!!!! (As I am now doing!!!)
The rest of the upgrade procedures are pretty much lost on me (not having done this kind of thing before), so either I wait or pay someone who might be willing to do it. (Assuming there is a someone and assuming it can be done in my CPanel environment)
Also, this particular account is hosted by an educational NPO, so they may have restrictions. I will ask them if it is possible. Thanks!
Paul
Recently I asked my server administrator (large educational organization with many accounts for various sub groups).
I pointed out that it might be a while before MM3 is on CPanel. I showed him the documentation at http://docs.list.org/en/latest/migration.html to show how to go from Mailman 2 to 3 manually. He said he might be willing to give it a whirl.
He said he might be willing to make our group (GALE) a test case (we have about 60 people in two not-so-active lists). He asked:
"I'd need to look into this a bit more to see what's possible. One issue is whether CPanel updates would overwrite any changes made. If you have any more details about it, let me know. We could try it out on the GALE site if you wanted, but I couldn't guarantee that it would work."
I take it he can migrate from MM2 following the directions above in the URL. I guess what he means is, once it becomes available in Channel, would it mean more work to get it to work and to update than if we waited for the CPanel version to debut. Since I don't understand much of the install stuff, he would presumably be doing it.
Thanks for anything I could relay to him.
Paul
On 09/14/2018 03:07 AM, Paul Arenson wrote:
Recently I asked my server administrator (large educational organization with many accounts for various sub groups).
I pointed out that it might be a while before MM3 is on CPanel. I showed him the documentation at http://docs.list.org/en/latest/migration.html to show how to go from Mailman 2 to 3 manually. He said he might be willing to give it a whirl.
He said he might be willing to make our group (GALE) a test case (we have about 60 people in two not-so-active lists). He asked:
"I'd need to look into this a bit more to see what's possible. One issue is whether CPanel updates would overwrite any changes made. If you have any more details about it, let me know. We could try it out on the GALE site if you wanted, but I couldn't guarantee that it would work."
The initial step is to install a working Mailman 3 on the server. This can be done in a couple of ways. See <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/prodsetup.html> for more detail.
It is not clear to me because I don't know much at all about cPanel whether MM 3 can be installed outside of cPanel on the same server or not, and if it has to be installed within cPanel, how that would be affected by cPanel updates if it can even be done at all.
I take it he can migrate from MM2 following the directions above in the URL. I guess what he means is, once it becomes available in Channel, would it mean more work to get it to work and to update than if we waited for the CPanel version to debut. Since I don't understand much of the install stuff, he would presumably be doing it.
The info at <http://docs.list.org/en/latest/migration.html> covers migration of Mailman 2.1 lists to Mailman 3. The big hurdle is the installation of Mailman 3 which is not covered in that doc.
As far as how to migrate from a 'custom' install to an eventual cPanel Mailman 3, that would depend at least in part on the database manager (SQLite, MySQL or PostgreSQL) used. I.e. if your custom install used SQLite and cPanel's used only MySQL, you would have a database migration issue.
Some of these questions would be better directed to cPanel itself. Only they can tell you what their Mailman 3 timeline might be or if they even have one.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Thank you. I guess I will ask the server administrator to ask CPanel since you have to be a direct customer of theirs to ask a question and I am just a humble user.
Hopefully they will be able to answer that. Appreciate it.
Meanwhile all the alternatives I am checking in the interim are not panning out, such as a REPLY BY EMAIL plugin for Buddy Press to combine a forum and email. (They just told me they discontinued their plugin). And the people at Fudforum, who also claim to be able to read a mailing list into their forums (or create a mailing list that works by email), are not at all helpful for non technical people.
Thanks,
paul
Well more to report. CPanel says:
"Thanks so much for reaching out. I know the mailman upgrade is definitely something many people are looking forward to, but it’s not something we’re able to support at this time. As uncomfortable as it is, the only current option would be to install MM3 and see what breaks. Since we have a minimum requirement for our consideration of their software (being able to migrate people in place), we haven’t done any testing, so it’s not possible for us to say what would or wouldn’t work.
Unfortunately you will have to make the best call for your customers, but without our testing I have to advise against trying a manual install of Mailman."
There is still the possibility of Discourse (suggested by a member of this forum). But it would require a hosted account somewhere as to host it oneself, you need VPS and something called Docker. I tried a free version of it on Disroot a while ago and it seemed ok, but the Disroot collective was very slow responding, plus you had to see other people's conversations. So while I wait for Mailman 3 on CPanel, this might be another solution.
Thanks.
PS... I am 66 and have lived outside the US since the age of 27. The language has begun to pass me by. The CPanel rep's use of REACHING OUT is a case in point. When I was in the US, you reached out to someone in trouble, Since I am in trouble, I do to feel I am reaching out to CPanel. I guess that is the nature of language change though.
participants (5)
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Mark Sapiro
-
Paul Arenson
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paul@arenson.org
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Simon Hanna
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tokyoprogressive@mailbox.org